What Is "two-step"?

[boba]

who cares? just dance to the music, rather than bothering to classify it; If you like the track, that's good enough, isn't it?

he was asking what a term meant on sales lists he saw. he was not asking how to categorize music he hears in a club in order to determine whether it was acceptable for him to dance to. he asked a reasonable question.

[mischief]

I think they were referring to a dance from the late 50s called the Stroll, big hit at the time by the Diamonds, Canadian white doo wop group who specialised in cover versions. Not sure of the steps, seem to remember it is literally strolling. I remember Lesley attending Courts in Enfield before we started going out, and she said that was the one dance you were allowed to do separately (without a partner) there.

Your description of the music on the tape you were given sounds like classic rock'n'roll or rockabilly. If they strolled to it I assume it was mid tempo or slower.

Strolling is like R'n'R line dancing and I mean that..

It is only done by the girls.. usually to a record that is to slow to jive to..

they stand in lines and stroll around in a sort of square doing the same dance all together..

so it is like line dancing

the boys bop.. this is done to records to fast to jive to..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHk6fkqJyWU

ok added this to show you Jiving... dancing to Ruth Brown "Mama he treats your daughter mean"

Blimey how things have changed there are blokes strolling in that clip..

and girls bopping!!!!

strolling was probably 90% of the girls at the do dancing.. it was always a pleasure to watch.. not now they are all a bit older

hope that helps

Edited June 4, 2008 by mischief

[Guest Salv]

Strolling is like R'n'R line dancing and I mean that..

It is only done by the girls.. usually to a record that is to slow to jive to..

they stand in lines and stroll around in a sort of square doing the same dance all together..

so it is like line dancing

the boys bop.. this is done to records to fast to jive to..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHk6fkqJyWU

ok added this to show you Jiving... dancing to Ruth Brown "Mama he treats your daughter mean"

Blimey how things have changed there are blokes strolling in that clip..

and girls bopping!!!!

strolling was probably 90% of the girls at the do dancing.. it was always a pleasure to watch.. not now they are all a bit older

hope that helps

Nice jiving clip, and have you seen this one?

">

[Guest]

i once went to a local soul do in barnsley, and the guy said to me "why are you still doing the old two step" i were a bit confused but i soon put him right when i were doing backdrop into splits

[Agent45]

who cares? just dance to the music, rather than bothering to classify it; If you like the track, that's good enough, isn't it?

If I like the track, that IS good enough, yes. However, if I'm reading sales lists and there are descriptions which I don't understand, I want to know what they mean to make me a smarter consumer. I'm not JUST listening to songs. I'm buying records too and want to be educated - what's wrong with that?

The funny thing is that I had gotten some very helpful answers very early in this thread and moved on. I only came back today when I noticed it was still going and had grown to 4 pages. It certainly has gotten more entertaining (or sad, depending on one's view).

Edited June 5, 2008 by Agent45

[Barry]

Where I disagree with Barry is that it wasn't Northern/modern fans buying the stuff

Did I say that? I can't be arsed looking but I'm sure I didn't.

I, and many others like me, were All Nighter attendees for years (call me a Soulie at that time, as I was by your terms) but there are certainly a huge amount of people, like myself [a Northern/Modern fan] that grew with it, bought it, spent time on others dancefloors up and down the country, simply appreciating it.

You know why?

Because it was great music.

How many tracks that were played on that scene in the early 80's were derided by the NS community at the time (slow learners??) that are now accepted on Nighter dancefloors?

I'm no less of a Northern Soul devotee for enjoying other forms of soulful black music.

There are also many others on here that have manged to juggle their musicality, keep abreast of it's beauty, and be true to their 60's roots; going to Nighters, buying Northern etc; alongside improving their love of the ever-evolving American based soul scene.

'Moving on' musically doesn't mean you lose any Brownie points (sorry - it does if loving your music means keeping your immediate peers happy, if those peers have very little knowledge of anything other than Northern) - in any way.

If you think honestly think that no NS/Modern types bought that music you need to expand your circle mate.

[Modernsoulsucks]

"'Two step' is a term, and I feel that I have enough spent enough time on the BAS (Black American Scene) to have a view, describes a time when venues, and their jocks, began playing tracks in the vein of Keni Burke's - 'Rising To The Top' (easy target), Bobby Womacks - 'How Could You Break My Heart' (Ralph Tee's beautifully obvious 12"), Keith Barrow, Harold Melvin's - 'Prayin' etc etc...

This period, which was post Northern/Modern, was instigated by movers and shakers on the scene at the time (Searling/Edwards/Rose at al) was borne of a love for deeper, heavier and more refined productions - tracks that had been appreciated from the home and the heart, but had never been given a real forum on the dancefloor - it was almost a real adult reaction against everything that had gone before.

Richard's - 'Halfway House' - Blackburn - 'Parkers' - Manchester, 'The Cricket Club' - Earlestown and a millenia of local events made it real."

At the risk of being tROUNCEd your description of the two-step phenomena, quoted above, as a NW based musical progression "instigated" by Richard etc is just way off the mark.

Two-step does not describe any time period but was a term ,like "Northern" which described a musical style and identifiable scene with it's origin and base in the South and predominantly amongst the Black community in London arising out of the reggae sound system audience.

Basically ballads with a beat which is why "Prayin" is not a two-step track.

That Richard and others picked up on it and broke it to a wider audience in the North is not in doubt but my point was that those who were into the modern side of the Northern scene took a while to latch on to it. I think I did say there were exceptions but usually the response in the shop was that two-step was too slow. Understandable, when modern Northern sellers at the time were 45s like Record Player and Split Decision Band. They're just poles apart.

I don't know why you appear to be unhappy that two-step began with the sound systems. Victor who was an early "mover and shaker" and the guy who introduced me to it was recently on JM's show on Solar giving an overview of the history and development of the scene from his beginnings within the reggae scene.

Finally your early morning posts come across as rather patronising and confrontational. My observations are taken from actually listening to and selling two-step and Northern at the time and if that is too passive an involvement for you then turning up the odd unknown gem too.

I suggest you get more sleep,mate.

ROD

[boba]

"'Two step' is a term, and I feel that I have enough spent enough time on the BAS (Black American Scene) to have a view, describes a time when venues, and their jocks, began playing tracks in the vein of Keni Burke's - 'Rising To The Top' (easy target), Bobby Womacks - 'How Could You Break My Heart' (Ralph Tee's beautifully obvious 12"), Keith Barrow, Harold Melvin's - 'Prayin' etc etc...

This period, which was post Northern/Modern, was instigated by movers and shakers on the scene at the time (Searling/Edwards/Rose at al) was borne of a love for deeper, heavier and more refined productions - tracks that had been appreciated from the home and the heart, but had never been given a real forum on the dancefloor - it was almost a real adult reaction against everything that had gone before.

Richard's - 'Halfway House' - Blackburn - 'Parkers' - Manchester, 'The Cricket Club' - Earlestown and a millenia of local events made it real."

At the risk of being tROUNCEd your description of the two-step phenomena, quoted above, as a NW based musical progression "instigated" by Richard etc is just way off the mark.

Two-step does not describe any time period but was a term ,like "Northern" which described a musical style and identifiable scene with it's origin and base in the South and predominantly amongst the Black community in London arising out of the reggae sound system audience.

Basically ballads with a beat which is why "Prayin" is not a two-step track.

That Richard and others picked up on it and broke it to a wider audience in the North is not in doubt but my point was that those who were into the modern side of the Northern scene took a while to latch on to it. I think I did say there were exceptions but usually the response in the shop was that two-step was too slow. Understandable, when modern Northern sellers at the time were 45s like Record Player and Split Decision Band. They're just poles apart.

I don't know why you appear to be unhappy that two-step began with the sound systems. Victor who was an early "mover and shaker" and the guy who introduced me to it was recently on JM's show on Solar giving an overview of the history and development of the scene from his beginnings within the reggae scene.

Finally your early morning posts come across as rather patronising and confrontational. My observations are taken from actually listening to and selling two-step and Northern at the time and if that is too passive an involvement for you then turning up the odd unknown gem too.

I suggest you get more sleep,mate.

ROD

I'm actually interested in all the references to the 'black american scene'. I don't know anyone in the US that calls anything "two step". Here in Chicago we have a "steppers" scene with similar music to what Barry describes above (e.g. Keni Burke) and to what people here have put in the "two step" thread in the media section. Probably the biggest Chicago steppers anthem is Jeff Perry's "Love's gonna last"... the scene is also centered around a lot of smooth jazz, but even goes back to early 60s jazz and 60s soul. But I still don't understand all the references to the "Black American Scene" other than there is "steppers" music in the US that sounds similar. Barry, do you know anyone in the US that actually uses the term "two-step"? Because while similar sounding, I don't think "two-step" has anything to do with any US scene at all.

[pikeys dog]

I suggest you get more sleep,mate.

ROD

Or less Cooking Sherry...

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I'm actually interested in all the references to the 'black american scene'. I don't know anyone in the US that calls anything "two step". Here in Chicago we have a "steppers" scene with similar music to what Barry describes above (e.g. Keni Burke) and to what people here have put in the "two step" thread in the media section. Probably the biggest Chicago steppers anthem is Jeff Perry's "Love's gonna last"... the scene is also centered around a lot of smooth jazz, but even goes back to early 60s jazz and 60s soul. But I still don't understand all the references to the "Black American Scene" other than there is "steppers" music in the US that sounds similar. Barry, do you know anyone in the US that actually uses the term "two-step"? Because while similar sounding, I don't think "two-step" has anything to do with any US scene at all.

"Love's Gonna Last" was also a huge tune on the UK two-step scene in the mid 80s (i.e before Richard invented it), Bob. There was even a UK cover of it, the name of the group who did the cover currently escaping me...

[Girthdevon]

"Love's Gonna Last" was also a huge tune on the UK two-step scene in the mid 80s (i.e before Richard invented it), Bob. There was even a UK cover of it, the name of the group who did the cover currently escaping me...

I think it was Steve Myers - good effort but not a patch on Jeffree.......

Girf

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I think it was Steve Myers - good effort but not a patch on Jeffree.......

Girf

Yup, that'll be the, er, 'group', Girf - as you say, it wasn't a bad effort either. It was on Pressure Records, as I recall...

[boba]

"Love's Gonna Last" was also a huge tune on the UK two-step scene in the mid 80s (i.e before Richard invented it), Bob. There was even a UK cover of it, the name of the group who did the cover currently escaping me...

I believe it as the music is very similar, I'm just wondering what connection, if any, the "two-step" scene has to the US and no one has described any, I don't see any (besides similar music and the word 'step') and Barry keeps talking about "the black american scene". I honestly want to know what the connection is. Thanks.

[Barry]

It's obviously a very grey and personal area but I find it slightly incredulous that some of you feel (to make it look like) I don't know what I'm on about.

If I am wrong in your eyes then we obviously have different views.

Don't be nasty lads, I can stand correction without the testosterone.

Fancy starting a 'What are Stompers' thread?

[Sebastian]

Here in Chicago we have a "steppers" scene with similar music to what Barry describes above (e.g. Keni Burke) and to what people here have put in the "two step" thread in the media section.

Here's more info about US "steppin" if anyone is interested:

https://www.steppersexpress.com/about.htm

[Guest D'Arcy]

Just as a point of interest, I've always thought of Harold Melvin's "Prayin" as a Gospel record, not your typical Gospel record for sure, still played and appreciated on many scenes. What would you term it as?

Cheers

D'Arcy

[Guest D'Arcy]

Stuff your strollin' these will do me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTg5V2oA_hY...feature=related

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Just as a point of interest, I've always thought of Harold Melvin's "Prayin" as a Gospel record, not your typical Gospel record for sure, still played and appreciated on many scenes. What would you term it as?

Cheers

D'Arcy

Well, D'arcy, I'd obviously term it as "Not a two-step"...

...and on a less flippant (but nonetheless correct) note, I'd also say that it's something of a precursor to the gospel house and garage records of the 90s and 00ties.

So I make you right, after a fashion...

Edited June 10, 2008 by TONY ROUNCE

[Jez Jones]

It's obviously a very grey and personal area but I find it slightly incredulous that some of you feel (to make it look like) I don't know what I'm on about.

If I am wrong in your eyes then we obviously have different views.

Don't be nasty lads, I can stand correction without the testosterone.

Fancy starting a 'What are Stompers' thread?

Tell you what Barry, that wouldn't be as easy as what it appears on the surface! Different strokes for different folks and all that

Edited June 10, 2008 by jez jones