Kings Go Forth Next Big Thing ?

[Guest Matt Male]

Just to be clear, this record wasn't really made specifically for the Northern scene.

The release has just as much excitement going on with funk fans, people with hip hop backgrounds etc etc and what's going on here is not a clever hype strategy or anything like that.

Go back and read post #43.

Lotusland seems to have some connection to the band. He openly says that the vinyl presses are aimed at the northern scene, because we buy vinyl and we're more interested in owning it on that format than downloading it or buying CDs, in fact as he says download numbers are way behind the 500 issues. I agree it may not have been recorded with the northern scene in mind but it is sure as hell being marketed at the northern scene. In itself that's not a bad thing but i resent this 'limited' 500 run in an attempt to manufacture a rarity, it just smacks of a cynical attempt to manipulate the rare soul scene.

Personally, as i've already said, i quite like both tracks and have nothing at all against new sounds being played out (the other week i played Jeffrey Osbourne 'don't you get so mad' brand new and in the charts when played at Stafford in 1983) and i would probably dance to One Day (since that's my favourite) but they are both derivative (three of us have mentioned the Delagates of Soul) and have a retro sound and that's how they'll get plays. Why play retro sounding modern recordings when there are thousands of rarely played 60s and 70s though?

[Sebastian]

I agree it may not have been recorded with the northern scene in mind but it is sure as hell being marketed at the northern scene.

As far as I know, ALL COPIES of the 45 were sold out prior to it being mentioned on any northern soul forum. It had probably only been mentioned on the funk forum, Soul Strut and the bands MySpace page when the copies dried up. So if they aimed the 7" release at the northern soul scene, then they failed miserably. The only person marketing this release to the northern soul scene, it seems, is James Trouble.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Sebastian

[Guest Trevski]

Why play retro sounding modern recordings when there are thousands of rarely played 60s and 70s though?

I don't think either should be played to the detriment of the other, in that I mean that playing KGF in a set, along with other lesser-played 60's-70's tracks would be the thing for me, irespective of when they were made. In an hour set, one has to play a majority of things the audience know, but I always like to add a few lesser-known things to keep it fresh and stop me getting bored!  I know Nicole Willis, S Jones etc came and went, and so will KGF, presumably. This is not cos they aint good, but because the availability of them precludes rarity, which gives 60's tunes there longevity. If something only has a handfull of copies it's lifespan is greater as it takes longer to get folk bored of hearing it. Having said that, the rarity of "Rainy day" hasn't stopped me getting tired of hearing it by now! It is still a blinding record, but I've heard it enough for now, same with Joe Jamma, and Pat & Blenders! Everywhere I go that gets played and its had its day years ago, IMHO. If anyone playing P&B dropped it for KGF I wouldn't complain, but neither would I do so if they replaced it with a lesser-played 60's track either.

[Harrogatesoul]

. The only person marketing this release to the northern soul scene, it seems, is James Trouble.

I'm not quite sure about that Sebastian as Steve Plumb has already said he played KGF out at the Orwell BH do (Is that marketing?). James (unless I am wrong) was purely expressing his opinion on the disc which has - in all great debates - snow balled and spiralled into the 4 pager we have now. In my previous post I expressed an opinion of the dividing and/or seperate strands of black dance music across the globe and it's clear to me who and where I would hear this played.Those seem like my kind of nights as opposed to say an all oldies night and I am sure that ability to choose would ring true for most if not all soul fans in the UK. You go where you are likely to hear your favourite sub-genre of soul. As it goes Sebastian I very much enjoy your own mixes and musical taste which is varied interesting and above all enjoyable!!!

Rich

Edited May 27, 2008 by harrogatesoul

[Jason S]

Go back and read post #43.

Lotusland seems to have some connection to the band

Andy co-runs Lotusland Records and was part of this record's production...maybe even played on the record too.

He openly says that the vinyl presses are aimed at the northern scene

Not in Post 43 he doesn't...not that I can see...doesn't even mentioned Northern in that post...the Northern Scene only really came into question when Speedlimit started this thread (tell me he wasn't being paid off )

it just smacks of a cynical attempt to manipulate the rare soul scene.

No, it smacks of a group doing what they enjoy - old records, old music and playing music that references old music and issuing it and selling it on a (traditionally) old music format...a 45rpm 7" single. I'm sure their real intent was to try to emulate the sound of the music that they all love without worrying if their actions were derivative, overtly referential or unoriginal - they'd be the first to acknowledge that it does all three of those! It's pointless judging something by what it's not - 'nu-soul' 'neo-soul' or 'organic soul' it aint, it has nothing in common with chart R&B and it isn't 'future soul' or any other modern day music type. It's a deliberate look back at a period when muic was golden and you can tell they had fun doing it! Ok, so it sounds more 60's soul than 60's funk and within that, sounds more 'northern' than Southern, etc, so by a process of elimination you can say they took the decision to make it sound similar to a certain 'sound': Northern. Big deal. Maybe they like that sounds, or maybe one of them lay in the tub humming a tune, fiddling with their bottle of Matey and suddenly had a eureka moment! Who knows? (can you still get Matey? )

Don't think it was at all cynical...if they were truly being cynical they'd have concocted some story about a 'mystery 45' that seems to have just appeared, ebayed them with scant info, dripped them out slowly and took as much money as possible...kind of like what has happened in the past with funk things and a certain Northern thing if you recall. Or failing that, got a few djs to play it covered up, built up the panic, held onto them for a few months then dripped them on ebay, watching them sell for $$$ (kind of like that utter tosh Frank Popp cover up!) before skimming out the remaining copies for as much as possible (kind like what people do with old records that they have 100's of...) and fielding the flack that would no doubt follow. Maybe he shouldn't have made a point of pointing out the limited run, maybe a few of them are old US-indie heads where the numbered limited edition 45 is the norm and just adds the air of 'uniqueness' to the object and they were making it in that spirit?

Surley it's more cynical to use records to bolster your image, or to try to buy friends or to attempt to move closer to the top of some weird fictional league table?

Anyway, this initially started with the funk crowd, not on here - The way this happened was that some of us heard this, albeit obliquely originally, made enquires and liked it enough to pre-order a load for resale. I can't speak for anyone else but I'll be doing them at what I consider a fair and reasonable price (nothing like £20+ that cheeky f**kers were asking for Nicole Willis, or the £20 that someone offered the Ellipsis reissue for on here a few weeks back!) and less than, say, Grapevine reissue 45's or the latest 45 from Real Sidelist for.

Personally, as i've already said, i quite like both tracks and have nothing at all against new sounds being played out (the other week i played Jeffrey Osbourne 'don't you get so mad' brand new and in the charts when played at Stafford in 1983)

But at that time that would have been a contemporary sound, not a 'throwback' sound, so in essence that point isn't really valid...nor are the other examples of then modern releases (King Tutt etc) being played because the arguement here is that it sounds deliberately retro, even though it's a new release.

Why play retro sounding modern recordings when there are thousands of rarely played 60s and 70s though?

Because you like it?

Because you like it more than some of the thousands of rarely played 60's and 70's releases that you may have heard?

Because you're playing to an audience who have no bias towards new and old and no history to consider when they're out having a good time dancing to music?

Because you think it's great and want to play it?

Edited May 27, 2008 by J-Brew

[Harrogatesoul]

Great post Jason. Good to see someone whos smoked their peace pipe today!

Rich

(Thanks for the 45 price btw).

[Guest Matt Male]

Andy co-runs Lotusland Records and was part of this record's production...maybe even played on the record too.

Not in Post 43 he doesn't...not that I can see...doesn't even mentioned Northern in that post...the Northern Scene only really came into question when Speedlimit started this thread (tell me he wasn't being paid off )

No, it smacks of a group doing what they enjoy - old records, old music and playing music that references old music and issuing it and selling it on a (traditionally) old music format...a 45rpm 7" single. I'm sure their real intent was to try to emulate the sound of the music that they all love without worrying if their actions were derivative, overtly referential or unoriginal - they'd be the first to acknowledge that it does all three of those! It's pointless judging something by what it's not - 'nu-soul' 'neo-soul' or 'organic soul' it aint, it has nothing in common with chart R&B and it isn't 'future soul' or any other modern day music type. It's a deliberate look back at a period when muic was golden and you can tell they had fun doing it! Ok, so it sounds more 60's soul than 60's funk and within that, sounds more 'northern' than Southern, etc, so by a process of elimination you can say they took the decision to make it sound similar to a certain 'sound': Northern. Big deal. Maybe they like that sounds, or maybe one of them lay in the tub humming a tune, fiddling with their bottle of Matey and suddenly had a eureka moment! Who knows? (can you still get Matey? )

Don't think it was at all cynical...if they were truly being cynical they'd have concocted some story about a 'mystery 45' that seems to have just appeared, ebayed them with scant info, dripped them out slowly and took as much money as possible...kind of like what has happened in the past with funk things and a certain Northern thing if you recall. Or failing that, got a few djs to play it covered up, built up the panic, held onto them for a few months then dripped them on ebay, watching them sell for $$$ (kind of like that utter tosh Frank Popp cover up!) before skimming out the remaining copies for as much as possible (kind like what people do with old records that they have 100's of...) and fielding the flack that would no doubt follow. Maybe he shouldn't have made a point of pointing out the limited run, maybe a few of them are old US-indie heads where the numbered limited edition 45 is the norm and just adds the air of 'uniqueness' to the object and they were making it in that spirit?

Surley it's more cynical to use records to bolster your image, or to try to buy friends or to attempt to move closer to the top of some weird fictional league table?

Anyway, this initially started with the funk crowd, not on here - The way this happened was that some of us heard this, albeit obliquely originally, made enquires and liked it enough to pre-order a load for resale. I can't speak for anyone else but I'll be doing them at what I consider a fair and reasonable price (nothing like £20+ that cheeky f**kers were asking for Nicole Willis, or the £20 that someone offered the Ellipsis reissue for on here a few weeks back!) and less than, say, Grapevine reissue 45's or the latest 45 from Real Sidelist for.

But at that time that would have been a contemporary sound, not a 'throwback' sound, so in essence that point isn't really valid...nor are the other examples of then modern releases (King Tutt etc) being played because the arguement here is that it sounds deliberately retro, even though it's a new release.

Because you like it?

Because you like it more than some of the thousands of rarely played 60's and 70's releases that you may have heard?

Because you're playing to an audience who have no bias towards new and old and no history to consider when they're out having a good time dancing to music?

Because you think it's great and want to play it?

Good response.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Matt Male

[Guest James Trouble]

Andy co-runs Lotusland Records and was part of this record's production...maybe even played on the record too.

Not in Post 43 he doesn't...not that I can see...doesn't even mentioned Northern in that post...the Northern Scene only really came into question when Speedlimit started this thread (tell me he wasn't being paid off )

No, it smacks of a group doing what they enjoy - old records, old music and playing music that references old music and issuing it and selling it on a (traditionally) old music format...a 45rpm 7" single. I'm sure their real intent was to try to emulate the sound of the music that they all love without worrying if their actions were derivative, overtly referential or unoriginal - they'd be the first to acknowledge that it does all three of those! It's pointless judging something by what it's not - 'nu-soul' 'neo-soul' or 'organic soul' it aint, it has nothing in common with chart R&B and it isn't 'future soul' or any other modern day music type. It's a deliberate look back at a period when muic was golden and you can tell they had fun doing it! Ok, so it sounds more 60's soul than 60's funk and within that, sounds more 'northern' than Southern, etc, so by a process of elimination you can say they took the decision to make it sound similar to a certain 'sound': Northern. Big deal. Maybe they like that sounds, or maybe one of them lay in the tub humming a tune, fiddling with their bottle of Matey and suddenly had a eureka moment! Who knows? (can you still get Matey? )

Don't think it was at all cynical...if they were truly being cynical they'd have concocted some story about a 'mystery 45' that seems to have just appeared, ebayed them with scant info, dripped them out slowly and took as much money as possible...kind of like what has happened in the past with funk things and a certain Northern thing if you recall. Or failing that, got a few djs to play it covered up, built up the panic, held onto them for a few months then dripped them on ebay, watching them sell for $$$ (kind of like that utter tosh Frank Popp cover up!) before skimming out the remaining copies for as much as possible (kind like what people do with old records that they have 100's of...) and fielding the flack that would no doubt follow. Maybe he shouldn't have made a point of pointing out the limited run, maybe a few of them are old US-indie heads where the numbered limited edition 45 is the norm and just adds the air of 'uniqueness' to the object and they were making it in that spirit?

Surley it's more cynical to use records to bolster your image, or to try to buy friends or to attempt to move closer to the top of some weird fictional league table?

Anyway, this initially started with the funk crowd, not on here - The way this happened was that some of us heard this, albeit obliquely originally, made enquires and liked it enough to pre-order a load for resale. I can't speak for anyone else but I'll be doing them at what I consider a fair and reasonable price (nothing like £20+ that cheeky f**kers were asking for Nicole Willis, or the £20 that someone offered the Ellipsis reissue for on here a few weeks back!) and less than, say, Grapevine reissue 45's or the latest 45 from Real Sidelist for.

But at that time that would have been a contemporary sound, not a 'throwback' sound, so in essence that point isn't really valid...nor are the other examples of then modern releases (King Tutt etc) being played because the arguement here is that it sounds deliberately retro, even though it's a new release.

Because you like it?

Because you like it more than some of the thousands of rarely played 60's and 70's releases that you may have heard?

Because you're playing to an audience who have no bias towards new and old and no history to consider when they're out having a good time dancing to music?

Because you think it's great and want to play it?

Too fucking right, Jason.

For me, the most exciting times I have had dancing, and probably can speak for you there as well, were always those great nights when a new Desco record got an airing by Keb at Jo Jo's. Things like The Matador sat perfectly next to Larry Ellis, Joseph Henry rumbling out perfectly mixed straight after Willie J. Lee Fields Like A Steam Train standing proud next to Marva Whitney. A celebration of greatness, no matter when it was made, in the style we liked. It was as simple as that then, and still is for me.

This Kings record is for me the first time I have really felt the same kind of buzz in a club as the first Sunday nights at Jo Jo's when Keb hammered Joseph Henry something like 6 times, and that was just the A side. The buzz that a new band were producing tunes that sounded the way we liked them to sound. In fact it was almost more exciting because they were new recordings.

It's a generation thing. Madame Jo Jo's was our Stafford, our Wigan.

We're a different breed to many on the UK soul scene. A lot of the attitudes on the northern soul scene in the UK feel alien compared to how we found our way.

This Kings record is not Frank bloody Popp, it's not Amy Winehouse, or Duffy. It's not a manufactured pretend rare record. It is what it is. An awesome record, a moment of genius that should be celebrated. It's a landmark recording in my opinion.

And given the current media interest in this type of sound, who knows, maybe it could get some interest from the mainstream and cause a new burst of young and enthusiastic collectors and dancers in the soul clubs across the world. Sharon Jones, so I hear is being produced by Mark Ronson, and some interest from Warner Brothers, so the rumour goes. Surely it is to be embraced? As long as there is no compromise on quality, which with the Kings record there certainly is not!

Edited May 27, 2008 by James Trouble

[Guest Matt Male]

I'm honestly not anti this record at all but i can't help wondering why we have to have reworkings of 60s and 70s sounds when we have the real thing? Ok KGF is better than Frank Popp and Duffy, but a retro sound on a modern recording seems pointless to me. One of the biggest criticism on this scene is that of nostalgia, wanting to hear the same sounds over and over again because it reminds us of our youth. Surely soundalike 60s and 70s soul is pure nostalgia? Shouldn't we get away from this stuff if we want a progressive scene? KGF seem a lot like The Pasadenas, a soul tribute band. Remember them?

Just trying to understand this but I'm just left thinking, what's the point?

Edited May 28, 2008 by Matt Male

[Dave Rimmer]

We're a different breed to many on the UK soul scene.

NEWSFLASH

James Trouble admits he is an alien sent here to corrupt the traditions of the Northern scene

[Winnie :-)]

I like it, maybe a bit quick for these old legs to dance to though

[Sweeney]

It is what it is. An awesome record, a moment of genius that should be celebrated. It's a landmark recording in my opinion.

Awesome? No.

Moment of genius? No.

Landmark recording? No.

Half-decent new recording that will have its 15 minutes of popularity on the Northern Scene before heading off to obscurity? Very probably.

This is just a group of blokes making a reasonably competent homage to late 60's soul.

I applaud your enthusiasm though.

[Jason S]

Read that all 500 copies have been reserved,

I take it not all from individuals, so come on resellers what priced are you going to retail this at?

£4.49 I think is the UK bench mark for a 7", £5.99 for a 7" import.

Is this record about making money, or highlighting the profile of the band for a major record deal

Look forward to any constructed points on why it should sell for any more.

Grapevine, Hayley and Real Side all charge £10 (or near as damned it) for theirs (to use an example) and most resellers set the price at the same level...and they're UK pressed and distributed...twice your UK benchmark. Whatsmore, in the main thats for reissues, not limited run originals.

I'll be selling the KGF for less than £10 per copy including postage. Of course I'll be making some money otherwise I'd be a chairty there to simply buy bulk at risk (before all this attention kicked off, btw) pass on records to people at cost and foot the agro of handling orders, packing, posting etc etc, plus losing a % through paypal etc. After that lot plus the purchase price it's hardly gonna make me the next Alan Sugar.

This record is about a bunch of musicians having a laugh, making a record and selling it - I seriously doubt they're after a major record label contract!

[Dylan]

I'll be selling the KGF for less than £10 per copy including postage. Of course I'll be making some money otherwise I'd be a chairty there to simply buy bulk at risk (before all this attention kicked off, btw) pass on records to people at cost and foot the agro of handling orders, packing, posting etc etc, plus losing a % through paypal etc. After that lot plus the purchase price it's hardly gonna make me the next Alan Sugar.

J-Brew.... YOU'RE FIRED

[Dylan]

nice to see the hype machine alive and well on the northern scene. Some things never change.

the record is good but so are thousands of others.

sven zetterberg was a new release that started changing hands for about 70 quid on ebay so are we to expect the same again ?

[Guest soulkitchen]

I'm honestly not anti this record at all but i can't help wondering why we have to have reworkings of 60s and 70s sounds when we have the real thing? Ok KGF is better than Frank Popp and Duffy, but a retro sound on a modern recording seems pointless to me. One of the biggest criticism on this scene is that of nostalgia, wanting to hear the same sounds over and over again because it reminds us of our youth. Surely soundalike 60s and 70s soul is pure nostalgia? Shouldn't we get away from this stuff if we want a progressive scene?

Just trying to understand this but I'm just left thinking, what's the point?

There's a lot of people out there who ask the same question.

Way I see it is that there are plenty of people who love soul, but with a preference tightly focused on a specific time frame. And that time frame for them represents the pinnacle of musical expression - and if that opinion is shared by some musicians out there too, then why not create projects based on that view? It's a real challenge to achieve that sound, feel, energy. Is it nostalgic? I'm not sure. Maybe for the vocalists on that recording! You can call it nostalgia or you can call it an obsession.

But in terms of a bunch of guys having a lot of fun making those tracks, plus a niche audience that is absolutely into those tracks - enough to pre-sell 500 copies - I'd say that's point enough.

Edited May 28, 2008 by soulkitchen

[Pete S]

Way I see it is that there are plenty of people who love soul, but with a preference tightly focused on a specific time frame. And that time frame for them represents the pinnacle of musical expression

I am one of those, and the rest of the people usually refer to us as dinosaurs...

[Sunnysoul]

Don't you all see what's happening with the genre of Soul music and how it is evolving ?

Very much the same as what happened to Soul's antecedent, the Blues .

The original legends of the Blues are all now long gone, and for the last 30 years or so the Blues today has become for some a totally unrecognisable music form to the classic blues of Robert Johnson Muddy Waters John Lee Hooker ......

Open virtually any Blues magazine of the last 30 years and you'll see it dominated by so called blues artists who are usually white and from such far flung hotbeds of the blues such as Sweden or Australia !!! Or failed female porn stars like Candy Kane !!! There may be a token article on some very minor league Mississippi bluesman who has managed to live to the age of 85. But that's it. That's the modern blues scene today ... get the picture?

To a Blues purist (and mind you there's nothing at all wrong with being a purist) into authentic classic blues, what passes as "the Blues today" is basically a joke .

Same thing happening now with Soul music. Soul music was essentially a dead music form from around the mid 80's , perpetuated only by old stagers like Womack and Johnnie Taylor.

And so here we are today . Soul music will now be kept "alive" - so to speak - by younger generations of mainly white boys and girls from Europe and other far flung places. The true essence of Soul music however will be sadly lost in the inevitable process of commercialisation and commodification that happens to all truly great art forms.

Which is why so many here on Soul Source , who have spent virtually their whole adult lives enjoying the golden era of true Soul music from the 60's and 70's , find it extremely difficult to even contemplate the thought of Kings Go Forth in the same breath as the Temptations or Frank Beverly or Sam Dees or the Impressions .... with some justification one might say .

The Kings Go Forth is nice POP tune sure, but as a piece of SOUL music? Don't think so !

Edited May 28, 2008 by sunnysoul

[Roger Williams]

Soul music was essentially a dead music form from around the mid 80's , perpetuated only by old stagers like Womack and Johnnie Taylor.

How on earth do you arrive at a conclusion like that? Did you stop buying records or something, so therefore soul music must have stopped being made?!??!?

[Pete S]

Don't you all see what's happening with the genre of Soul music and how it is evolving ?

Very much the same as what happened to Soul's antecedent, the Blues .

The original legends of the Blues are all now long gone, and for the last 30 years or so the Blues today has become for some a totally unrecognisable music form to the classic blues of Robert Johnson Muddy Waters John Lee Hooker ......

Open virtually any Blues magazine of the last 30 years and you'll see it dominated by so called blues artists who are usually white and from such far flung hotbeds of the blues such as Sweden or Australia !!! Or failed female porn stars like Candy Kane !!! There may be a token article on some very minor league Mississippi bluesman who has managed to live to the age of 85. But that's it. That's the modern blues scene today ... get the picture?

To a Blues purist (and mind you there's nothing at all wrong with being a purist) into authentic classic blues, what passes as "the Blues today" is basically a joke .

Same thing happening now with Soul music. Soul music was essentially a dead music form from around the mid 80's , perpetuated only by old stagers like Womack and Johnnie Taylor.

And so here we are today . Soul music will now be kept "alive" - so to speak - by younger generations of mainly white boys and girls from Europe and other far flung places. The true essence of Soul music however will be sadly lost in the inevitable process of commercialisation and commodification that happens to all truly great art forms.

Which is why so many here on Soul Source , who have spent virtually their whole adult lives enjoying the golden era of true Soul music from the 60's and 70's , find it extremely difficult to even contemplate the thought of Kings Go Forth in the same breath as the Temptations or Frank Beverly or Sam Dees or the Impressions .... with some justification one might say .

The Kings Go Forth is nice POP tune sure, but as a piece of SOUL music? Don't think so !

Great post Sunnysoul, sums it up for me

[Guest adam leaver]

Don't you all see what's happening with the genre of Soul music and how it is evolving ?

Very much the same as what happened to Soul's antecedent, the Blues .

The original legends of the Blues are all now long gone, and for the last 30 years or so the Blues today has become for some a totally unrecognisable music form to the classic blues of Robert Johnson Muddy Waters John Lee Hooker ......

Open virtually any Blues magazine of the last 30 years and you'll see it dominated by so called blues artists who are usually white and from such far flung hotbeds of the blues such as Sweden or Australia !!! Or failed female porn stars like Candy Kane !!! There may be a token article on some very minor league Mississippi bluesman who has managed to live to the age of 85. But that's it. That's the modern blues scene today ... get the picture?

To a Blues purist (and mind you there's nothing at all wrong with being a purist) into authentic classic blues, what passes as "the Blues today" is basically a joke .

Same thing happening now with Soul music. Soul music was essentially a dead music form from around the mid 80's , perpetuated only by old stagers like Womack and Johnnie Taylor.

And so here we are today . Soul music will now be kept "alive" - so to speak - by younger generations of mainly white boys and girls from Europe and other far flung places. The true essence of Soul music however will be sadly lost in the inevitable process of commercialisation and commodification that happens to all truly great art forms.

Which is why so many here on Soul Source , who have spent virtually their whole adult lives enjoying the golden era of true Soul music from the 60's and 70's , find it extremely difficult to even contemplate the thought of Kings Go Forth in the same breath as the Temptations or Frank Beverly or Sam Dees or the Impressions .... with some justification one might say .

The Kings Go Forth is nice POP tune sure, but as a piece of SOUL music? Don't think so !

I'm not sure this isn't a rose-tinted reworking of musical history. Cultural products have always had both an artistic and commodity character. That's true of the soul music recorded in the 60s as much as in the 2000s. Were artists like the Temps, Frankie Beverley etc trying to paid? Of course they were. Did they, or the label owners they worked for, employ commercial techniques to push product? you bet. Every record produced represents to a greater or lesser extent the efforts of individuals to gain commercial success from artistic endeavour. Effectively what you're arguing is that this record doesn't fit the bill of being an 'old soul' record and therefore ceases to have aesthetic meaning to you, but this surely must reduce music to a form of nostalgia because it implies you can only enjoy soul produced at a specific time and place (USA in the 60s). However for me, that doesn't make this a pop record, it just makes you backwards looking and means Northern will become increasingly akin to an Elvis convention. After all, if soul music is meant to transcend geography and time, then why the hell can't we appreciate a decent (or in my opinion great) soul record made in the 2000s? If your love of the music can last so long, why is it so unexpected that it can affect newer collectors who go out, set up a band and belt out a bloody fantastic tune?

I don't expect this record to be everyone's cup of tea, but that's because the influences are 70s not 60s. But for a growing group of soulies and funk collectors this really is where I see the sound moving. The question has been asked 'will this record be around in 10 years?' I guess my answer is that depends how the scenes' tastes change

Edited May 29, 2008 by adam leaver

[Denbo]

The Kings Go Forth is nice POP tune sure, but as a piece of SOUL music? Don't think so !

I don't think so either!!!

Nice quote by the way sunnysoul but cut it out to get to my point. Hope you don't mind.

[Guest andyrattigan]

That Kings go forth track is fookin' awesome and it blew me away when I heard it down the 100 club a few weeks ago.

It sounds authentically like a 6ts record and blows the socks off imitators like Duffy who is a pop artist trying to do soul where as this to me is a pure soul record. Love it.

[Stubbsy]

Ok, maybe a little harsh, but depends how you read into it. If you want to read into it that I'm saying the northern scene is shit, you will. But I'm not saying that. If you want to read into it that I'm saying the northern scene is fantastic and standing tall, but the sort of attitudes like "it's new so there's no place for it no matter how good it is" are making the northern soul scene look stupid to folk looking in, you can read that into it as well. And you'd be right.

Let's be honest, it's not a good look to dismiss something because it is new. A bit like falling on your arse.

Yes, but do we all really care about "folk looking in". NS - you either get it, or you don't

Trying to preach to the unconverted is just a complete waste of time !

As for the KGF - good record, I quite like it, wouldn't mind hearing it out again, (I was at The 100 Club) last month, but 3 times in one night, come on ?

As for it ever being a top 500 NS tune - never, no where near (IMHO of course)

[El Corol]

Blimey this topic still being argued.....isn't it about time the thread went (Kings Go) Forth and mulitplied

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

I'm not sure this isn't a rose-tinted reworking of musical history. Cultural products have always had both an artistic and commodity character. That's true of the soul music recorded in the 60s as much as in the 2000s. Were artists like the Temps, Frankie Beverley etc trying to paid? Of course they were. Did they, or the label owners they worked for, employ commercial techniques to push product? you bet. Every record produced represents to a greater or lesser extent the efforts of individuals to gain commercial success from artistic endeavour. Effectively what you're arguing is that this record doesn't fit the bill of being an 'old soul' record and therefore ceases to have aesthetic meaning to you, but this surely must reduce music to a form of nostalgia because it implies you can only enjoy soul produced at a specific time and place (USA in the 60s). However for me, that doesn't make this a pop record, it just makes you backwards looking and means Northern will become increasingly akin to an Elvis convention. After all, if soul music is meant to transcend geography and time, then why the hell can't we appreciate a decent (or in my opinion great) soul record made in the 2000s? If your love of the music can last so long, why is it so unexpected that it can affect newer collectors who go out, set up a band and belt out a bloody fantastic tune?

I don't expect this record to be everyone's cup of tea, but that's because the influences are 70s not 60s. But for a growing group of soulies and funk collectors this really is where I see the sound moving. The question has been asked 'will this record be around in 10 years?' I guess my answer is that depends how the scenes' tastes change

Best post on this thread ! When a record was made is irrelevent ,its either good or not.

[Speedlimit]

[

the Northern Scene only really came into question when Speedlimit started this thread (tell me he wasn't being paid off

Hey hey speedlimit has'nt been payed off LOL not even got a copy yet , james will tell you im not like the rest of the scene's dinosaur's . just thought i'd start the thread cause like so many other records that have been over looked in the past i thought this deserves a mention as in the right d.j's hands this could potentionally become a big record im all for new discoveries be they 60's 70's and even resent releases if they fit the bill ,this scene get's slated weekin week out on here and other sites for venues playing the same old .well hopefully this may help change that trend. if james hadn't have played it now it would have been someone else eventually quality rises to the top . if this hadn't have been a new release every top d.j in the country would have wanted one .this scene as always had it's controvertial d.j's levine, soulsam . keb now james they push the boundries which can't bad otherwise we be stuck with the same old looking forward to gettin my copy will def be playing it out

[Speedlimit]

[

keep banging on about this but the critics got an answer saturday night when this rammed the floor at the lifeline niter

[Steve Plumb]

I heard on Saturday that the 45's have been withdrawn? Anyone know if this is true?

Steve

[Jason S]

I heard on Saturday that the 45's have been withdrawn? Anyone know if this is true?

Steve

Pretty sure that's untrue but I mailed Andy with this so not doubt he'll come on and set the record straight.

[Guest James Trouble]

I heard on Saturday that the 45's have been withdrawn? Anyone know if this is true?

Steve

No, there was a cock up with the pressing I was told, so they destroyed them and they are being repressed. Otherwise everyone will have to pay £20 to get a copy carved up off the MP3...

Fingers crossed I'll have copies at Soul Revolution July 16th...

Edited July 1, 2008 by James Trouble

[Simon M]

No, there was a cock up with the pressing I was told, so they destroyed them and they are being repressed. Otherwise everyone will have to pay £20 to get a copy carved up off the MP3...

Fingers crossed I'll have copies at Soul Revolution July 16th...

Dam someone Like Honky will have that first press 45 now and it will be a one off ,making the second run/press only good for the plebians

Edited July 1, 2008 by Simon M

[Guest gordon russell]

heard the kings go forth out the other night

[Guest lotusland]

No, Jason/James are correct. The first test press was too quiet so I had it re-cut at a louder volume. I have OK'd the 2nd test pressing as of last week Friday (end of June) and now it's a matter of how quick the plant will run these off. Should be 2-3 weeks from last Friday. We are good to go with boxes/paypal acct./etc so as to get copies out ASAP when they are in.

Sorry for all the BS people but as a DJ myself I cannot stand quiet 45s!! all pre-reservers will get an email, or anyone can keep in touch with us at the page

https://myspace.com/kingsgoforth

who spun it at lifeline, btw? i know fryerian played a CD copy @ soul revolution last Sat PM.

[Speedlimit]

No, Jason/James are correct. The first test press was too quiet so I had it re-cut at a louder volume. I have OK'd the 2nd test pressing as of last week Friday (end of June) and now it's a matter of how quick the plant will run these off. Should be 2-3 weeks from last Friday. We are good to go with boxes/paypal acct./etc so as to get copies out ASAP when they are in.

Sorry for all the BS people but as a DJ myself I cannot stand quiet 45s!! all pre-reservers will get an email, or anyone can keep in touch with us at the page

https://myspace.com/kingsgoforth

who spun it at lifeline, btw? i know fryerian played a CD copy @ soul revolution last Sat PM.

think it was soulsam

[Marc Forrest]

Record collectors are the freaks, not the band. 500+ people reserving copies of the 45

I remember "someone" telling me a "handful" of people reserved and ordered the whole stock beforehand. And now (from the start on to be precise) no copies were and will be available unless you have "access" to this group of people (but rest assured in a few weeks time the first will crop up on ebay making 275.73 USD, after that it will cool down to say 66 USD...

Same situation when a small amount of a so-called rarity turns up...the same old handful of people get them offered...

For gods sake THIS WAS INTENDED TO BE A NEW RELEASE.

Some times the way this scene is intended by some to work really sucks.

Good record. Bad practise.

Marc

Edited July 1, 2008 by Marc Forrest

[Guest lotusland]

If I had to do it over I would have capped it at 5 copies a piece or something like that.

I will stand behind making it a small batch though , it keeps it special. This is a big can of worms but to keep it simple let me say that the funk and soul scenes throughout the years have been founded on the fact that not every tom dick and harry has these records. As soon as you can get it just anywhere it loses a bit of it's mystique. I don't want to harp on this point too long, I wrote and produced the record and I can do what I want with it . If you didn't get one Marc pm me and I'll make it happen.

Also, 2 or 3 people will have small quantity but almost all of that 500 are individual copies or 2x each.

[Jason S]

I remember "someone" telling me a "handful" of people reserved and ordered the whole stock beforehand. And now (from the start on to be precise) no copies were and will be available unless you have "access" to this group of people (but rest assured in a few weeks time the first will crop up on ebay making 275.73 USD, after that it will cool down to say 66 USD...

Same situation when a small amount of a so-called rarity turns up...the same old handful of people get them offered...

For gods sake THIS WAS INTENDED TO BE A NEW RELEASE.

Some times the way this scene is intended by some to work really sucks.

Good record. Bad practise.

Marc

I ordered 75 with the intention of selling them on my mailing list/site, precisely so that people who might not be plugged into the internet's weird and wonderful 24 hour circus wouldn't miss out on a great new release, and also to make it easier for UK folk to get hold of a copy. It's no different to a distributor buying up a % of stock to resell. Resellers buying bulk probably benefits the label too as they don't have to deal with 500 individual punters, taking orders, payment, shipping etc. It's mutually benefical.

As it happens I've pre-sold just about all of those 75, maybe if I hadn't have bought bulk some of those folk may have missed out, maybe they'd have bought one already or gone to the other people who bought stock to resell. The record was actually available to pre-order a few months ago as advertised on the funk forum, as loads of people did it that way, so it's not as if there's a cloak of secrecy surrounding this really. If this hadn't all blown up I'd have advertised them on here and on my list when they were actually here and probably sold them all as well. Inevitably people will miss out and copies will most likely show on ebay and go for silly money, but that said, if you've been reading this thread then you'll know where you can/could buy them at a sensible price.

[Guest James Trouble]

I ordered 75 with the intention of selling them on my mailing list/site, precisely so that people who might not be plugged into the internet's weird and wonderful 24 hour circus wouldn't miss out on a great new release, and also to make it easier for UK folk to get hold of a copy. It's no different to a distributor buying up a % of stock to resell. Resellers buying bulk probably benefits the label too as they don't have to deal with 500 individual punters, taking orders, payment, shipping etc. It's mutually benefical.

As it happens I've pre-sold just about all of those 75, maybe if I hadn't have bought bulk some of those folk may have missed out, maybe they'd have bought one already or gone to the other people who bought stock to resell. The record was actually available to pre-order a few months ago as advertised on the funk forum, as loads of people did it that way, so it's not as if there's a cloak of secrecy surrounding this really. If this hadn't all blown up I'd have advertised them on here and on my list when they were actually here and probably sold them all as well. Inevitably people will miss out and copies will most likely show on ebay and go for silly money, but that said, if you've been reading this thread then you'll know where you can/could buy them at a sensible price.

I agree. I've presold all the copies I've ordered, it's just that I don't do mail order, because I don't need to as I'm out and about every weekend in the clubs, and if it wasn't for the exposure at places like Lifeline in Sheffield, Soul Revolution, 100 Club, Lifeline Wolverhampton, Venice etc there are people who are not plugged into the internet who would not have heard it and would not have had a chance to buy it.

And once these copies do land and all the DJs get it, I still believe it will be the biggest record on the UK scene this year. At Lifeline on Saturday, when Sam played it, I'm sure I heard a few folk clapping, Wigan style, during the breaks. When has that ever happened to a record that folk have not heard before, or maybe they had? This thread has had a few hits now!

Edited July 2, 2008 by James Trouble

[Guest wrighty]

who spun it at lifeline, btw? i know fryerian played a CD copy @ soul revolution last Sat PM.

tut tut andy. we actually played it at soul spectrum

[Guest Ste Brazil]

tut tut andy. we actually played it at soul spectrum

Has anybody got a copy for me at the right price please?!

Ste.

[Guest wrighty]

Has anybody got a copy for me at the right price please?!

Ste.

we played it off a cd ste, copies still not available

[Steve Plumb]

No, Jason/James are correct. The first test press was too quiet so I had it re-cut at a louder volume. I have OK'd the 2nd test pressing as of last week Friday (end of June) and now it's a matter of how quick the plant will run these off. Should be 2-3 weeks from last Friday. We are good to go with boxes/paypal acct./etc so as to get copies out ASAP when they are in.

Sorry for all the BS people but as a DJ myself I cannot stand quiet 45s!! all pre-reservers will get an email, or anyone can keep in touch with us at the page

https://myspace.com/kingsgoforth

who spun it at lifeline, btw? i know fryerian played a CD copy @ soul revolution last Sat PM.

Hi Andy

Many thanks for clearing that up

Looking forward to getting me hands on the 45 BUT happy to carry on playing the MP3/CD for now

Cheers

Steve

[Guest fryer]

Hi Andy

Many thanks for clearing that up

Looking forward to getting me hands on the 45 BUT happy to carry on playing the MP3/CD for now

Cheers

Steve

It'll be on Radio One Scotland this friday as i'm doing a short mix for the Vic Galloway show. When we played it on Saturday civialians did come up and ask what it was, which is a good sign.

Edited July 2, 2008 by fryer

[Guest James Trouble]

It'll be on Radio One Scotland this friday as i'm doing a short mix for the Vic Galloway show. When we played it on Saturday civialians did come up and ask what it was, which is a good sign.

Nice one, Fryer! It certainly deserves exposure like that!

What time is the show? Available on the web?

Edited July 2, 2008 by James Trouble

[Tommy1]

I remember "someone" telling me a "handful" of people reserved and ordered the whole stock beforehand. And now (from the start on to be precise) no copies were and will be available unless you have "access" to this group of people (but rest assured in a few weeks time the first will crop up on ebay making 275.73 USD, after that it will cool down to say 66 USD...

Same situation when a small amount of a so-called rarity turns up...the same old handful of people get them offered...

For gods sake THIS WAS INTENDED TO BE A NEW RELEASE.

Some times the way this scene is intended by some to work really sucks.

Good record. Bad practise.

Marc

You're just too slow Marc

[oldsteve woomble]

Just great tunes, who cares when they were recorded etc etc da-de-da-de-da........

Arthur Fenn's hair all nearly grew back in excitement when I played them to him during a drunken saturday afternoon session of booziness at Skeggy (don't ask..). Even Maria seemed to like them!

James! Can I have a badge for playing them out (on a self-blagged mp3 of course) please?..........

Hey and here's the next dilemma!! When the vinyl comes out, will it be de rigueur to knock those who are spinning the vinyl for not playing off 'original format'? The ba$7ards!!

Sometimes one side of my head argues with the other side just for the hell of it......... Ouch

Steve

[galaxy]

It'll be on Radio One Scotland this friday as i'm doing a short mix for the Vic Galloway show. When we played it on Saturday civialians did come up and ask what it was, which is a good sign.

Been spun a few times here in Finland too. On Basso Radio 102.8Mhz / www.basso.fi at our show that airs every saturday. To my knowledge we are the only weekly soul music radio show on FM dial in the Scandivia too

[Simon M]

Been spun a few times here in Finland too. On Basso Radio 102.8Mhz / www.basso.fi at our show that airs every saturday. To my knowledge we are the only weekly soul music radio show on FM dial in the Scandivia too

Hey how did Nick Willis get to No 1 in Finland ?

[galaxy]

Hey how did Nick Willis get to No 1 in Finland ?

it got plays from the pop stations + we love good music here