hi guys,

life can be cruel. everyone knows it! this thread is dedicated to all stories about soul & tragedies...feel free to list the sadest stories you've ever heard of...or tell us about true strokes of fate...stories about overlooked and forgotten artists...like I do now:

one of my deepest and most soulful moments in my life was last year seein' ann sexton live in concert at the baltic soul weekender...emotional!!! loads of tears...can you believe it: no money for her recordings after all these years (like most musicians) & she was so god damn clueless about her popularity in europe. she had to cry while singing cause she was choked up - after 30 years she was allowed to see with her own eyes that she is not forgotten although she recorded most of her songs more than 30 years ago...keep on keepin' on, ann!!!

all the years she teaches youngsters in the bronx and she is going to do some more gigs now after knowing that there is a huge audience who gonna love her music ... happy ending! but not for all...

Edited May 15, 200817 yr by matt fox

Interesting thoughts.............I wonder about this topic, I've seen a few artists over the years, but am left wondering why with after seeing JJ Barnes in the Ric Tic review back in 82 i hear he is reluctant to speak to the soulies this side if the Atlantic? is that about him or his experiences of the Northern scene (and i do stand to be corrected here if I am wrong, coz it is a rumour that i heard??) finding something else that you can work at isn't that bad if you don't make it in music. lets face it most muscians don't make it........its not just soul...............this goes across every genre of music there are scores of rock , pop and folk acts etc in this boat. All of whom hoped to make it and didn't. I guess what makes it particular poignant is our heroes and heroines are deemed to come from impoverished and predjudiced backgrounds.

Just a few thoughts

Rob

Two immediately spring to mind ...

First, seeing the you tube clip of the last year or so with the great Levi Stubbs in his wheel chair being serenaded by Aretha and the Four Tops.

Second, seeing Curtis Mayfield being brought out also in a wheel chair by Jerry Butler, Sam Gooden and Fred Cash at a Grammy Awards a year or two before Curtis passed away.

Tragic to see two absolute giants of soul music reduced to that ....

Edited May 15, 200817 yr by sunnysoul

  El Corol said:

Interesting thoughts.............I wonder about this topic, I've seen a few artists over the years, but am left wondering why with after seeing JJ Barnes in the Ric Tic review back in 82 i hear he is reluctant to speak to the soulies this side if the Atlantic? is that about him or his experiences of the Northern scene (and i do stand to be corrected here if I am wrong, coz it is a rumour that i heard??) finding something else that you can work at isn't that bad if you don't make it in music. lets face it most muscians don't make it........its not just soul...............this goes across every genre of music there are scores of rock , pop and folk acts etc in this boat. All of whom hoped to make it and didn't. I guess what makes it particular poignant is our heroes and heroines are deemed to come from impoverished and predjudiced backgrounds.

Just a few thoughts

Rob

Some food for thought there Rob.

Funny you should mention J.J. Barnes as I had the pleasure of seeing him at Keighley Variety Club on a Sunday night in the early 70's. I believe it was his first UK tour off the back of his Northern Soul success and I seem to remember him almost breaking down in tears when the whole audience started singing the words of "Please Let Me In" - his first song of the show. I don't think he could believe that people even KNEW the song leave alone the amount of resonance the song had with a club full of people in Keighley on a rainy Sunday night LOL. It was one of the most emotional things I've ever witnessed.

I also thought J.J. was genuinely shocked by the knowledge and reception to each of his songs throughout his whole performance. Plus, I was just one in a long queue after the show, waiting for my copy of "Our Love Is In The Pocket" to be autographed by the man himself.

Can you imagine the gamut of emotions which must run through you when you experience something like that?

To go from relative obscurity in your lifelong hometown to a compulsive audience of thousands in a foreign country?

Tony Cummings wrote about this phenomenon very eloquently in his famous "The Strange World Of Northern Soul" article for Black Music magazine in the mid 70's using Eddie Foster as the example.

Over the years I've seen many examples of highly talented people in many areas reduced to dealing with the realities of a life which doesn't necessarily reward talent or creativity as maybe it should. Carl Davis - possibly one of the greatest producer/arrangers of all time working in a real estate office? Bob Relf, Steve Mancha and numerous others drinking themselves to death. Darrell Banks shot on the street. The list is endless.

To many of these people, the adulation we show them in the UK is often too late. We have a tendency to worship our heroes in a way that not many other scenes manage. But the reality of many of our hero's lifestyles is almost unimaginable to us. The Music Business is a marauding giant which sucks talent in and then splits it out when it's past it's sell-by date. Not much evidence of 'capitalism with a concience' in my experience that's for sure.

So when these guys come over here and experience true adulation some 10,20 or 30 years later, it probably shows them what might have been if things had worked differently.....

Plus there's a LOT of luck involved. Mary Wilson, who looks stunning and is a cultured, well-balanced lady of 64 was one of the lucky ones. James Fountain probably spent that $8 he received for "Seven Day Lover" the day he got it. Wonder where he is now?

Ian D

I defy anyone to listen to Lost Friends by Eddie and Ernie while reading the Kent CD notes about them both and not well up

  sunnysoul said:

Two immediately spring to mind ...

First, seeing the you tube clip of the last year or so with the great Levi Stubbs in his wheel chair being serenaded by Aretha and the Four Tops.

Second, seeing Curtis Mayfield being brought out also in a wheel chair by Jerry Butler, Sam Gooden and Fred Cash at a Grammy Awards a year or two before Curtis passed away.

Tragic to see two absolute giants of soul music reduced to that ....

I dont mind saying I cried my eyes out at seeing Levi Stubbs

"...It seemed that David Ruffin was his own worst enemy, and there was continual self denial that he had a problem. Unfortunately, on June 1, 1991, the downward spiral into drugs and depression would end his life, and the world lost one of the greatest soul singers of our time..."

read more ... https://www.angelfire.com/stars/classictemp...dsoloyears.html

Rip!!!

Dont know how true the Temptations movie DVD is to fact, but its a real tear jerker.

Ann Sexton - Godess - Fact.

Just like the rest of life though, not everybody gets what they deserve, including soul singers. The cream occassionally stays at the bottom.

Ed

  Ian Dewhirst said:

Some food for thought there Rob.

Funny you should mention J.J. Barnes as I had the pleasure of seeing him at Keighley Variety Club on a Sunday night in the early 70's. I believe it was his first UK tour off the back of his Northern Soul success and I seem to remember him almost breaking down in tears when the whole audience started singing the words of "Please Let Me In" - his first song of the show. I don't think he could believe that people even KNEW the song leave alone the amount of resonance the song had with a club full of people in Keighley on a rainy Sunday night LOL. It was one of the most emotional things I've ever witnessed.

I also thought J.J. was genuinely shocked by the knowledge and reception to each of his songs throughout his whole performance. Plus, I was just one in a long queue after the show, waiting for my copy of "Our Love Is In The Pocket" to be autographed by the man himself.

Can you imagine the gamut of emotions which must run through you when you experience something like that?

To go from relative obscurity in your lifelong hometown to a compulsive audience of thousands in a foreign country?

Tony Cummings wrote about this phenomenon very eloquently in his famous "The Strange World Of Northern Soul" article for Black Music magazine in the mid 70's using Eddie Foster as the example.

Over the years I've seen many examples of highly talented people in many areas reduced to dealing with the realities of a life which doesn't necessarily reward talent or creativity as maybe it should. Carl Davis - possibly one of the greatest producer/arrangers of all time working in a real estate office? Bob Relf, Steve Mancha and numerous others drinking themselves to death. Darrell Banks shot on the street. The list is endless.

To many of these people, the adulation we show them in the UK is often too late. We have a tendency to worship our heroes in a way that not many other scenes manage. But the reality of many of our hero's lifestyles is almost unimaginable to us. The Music Business is a marauding giant which sucks talent in and then splits it out when it's past it's sell-by date. Not much evidence of 'capitalism with a concience' in my experience that's for sure.

So when these guys come over here and experience true adulation some 10,20 or 30 years later, it probably shows them what might have been if things had worked differently.....

Plus there's a LOT of luck involved. Mary Wilson, who looks stunning and is a cultured, well-balanced lady of 64 was one of the lucky ones. James Fountain probably spent that $8 he received for "Seven Day Lover" the day he got it. Wonder where he is now?

Ian D

Sure I remember reading that James Fountain died quite recently

  Ian Dewhirst said:

Some food for thought there Rob.

Funny you should mention J.J. Barnes as I had the pleasure of seeing him at Keighley Variety Club on a Sunday night in the early 70's. I believe it was his first UK tour off the back of his Northern Soul success and I seem to remember him almost breaking down in tears when the whole audience started singing the words of "Please Let Me In" - his first song of the show. I don't think he could believe that people even KNEW the song leave alone the amount of resonance the song had with a club full of people in Keighley on a rainy Sunday night LOL. It was one of the most emotional things I've ever witnessed.

I also thought J.J. was genuinely shocked by the knowledge and reception to each of his songs throughout his whole performance. Plus, I was just one in a long queue after the show, waiting for my copy of "Our Love Is In The Pocket" to be autographed by the man himself.

Can you imagine the gamut of emotions which must run through you when you experience something like that?

To go from relative obscurity in your lifelong hometown to a compulsive audience of thousands in a foreign country?

Tony Cummings wrote about this phenomenon very eloquently in his famous "The Strange World Of Northern Soul" article for Black Music magazine in the mid 70's using Eddie Foster as the example.

Over the years I've seen many examples of highly talented people in many areas reduced to dealing with the realities of a life which doesn't necessarily reward talent or creativity as maybe it should. Carl Davis - possibly one of the greatest producer/arrangers of all time working in a real estate office? Bob Relf, Steve Mancha and numerous others drinking themselves to death. Darrell Banks shot on the street. The list is endless.

To many of these people, the adulation we show them in the UK is often too late. We have a tendency to worship our heroes in a way that not many other scenes manage. But the reality of many of our hero's lifestyles is almost unimaginable to us. The Music Business is a marauding giant which sucks talent in and then splits it out when it's past it's sell-by date. Not much evidence of 'capitalism with a concience' in my experience that's for sure.

So when these guys come over here and experience true adulation some 10,20 or 30 years later, it probably shows them what might have been if things had worked differently.....

Plus there's a LOT of luck involved. Mary Wilson, who looks stunning and is a cultured, well-balanced lady of 64 was one of the lucky ones. James Fountain probably spent that $8 he received for "Seven Day Lover" the day he got it. Wonder where he is now?

Ian D

I like what you have written here Ian.

You have obviously been in touch with, met or know about the artists and musicians that have made the records we love so much. Carl Davis in a real estate office does seem a major waste of talent, better than what happened to Darrell Banks though!

What you said about the music business though is just so true. I only speak as an observer but particularly contracts from the 50's 60's 70's (and I'm sure right through to this day) seemed to shaft the artist unless you were one of the big acts. Diana Ross, Beatles, Stones etc and even they will have their stories to tell, especially in the early days!

It must be very hard to have a talent and get a shot but not quite make it. I sometimes wonder if its better never having had a taste of that world. I mean, imagine being on the books of a big team as a youngster and then being let go to end up playing semi-pro......I would imagine some players adjust well and some don't. Same with the music biz, being an artist with a big label - Motown for instance and then not really making it, well must be a gutter! And like you said luck must play a big part, and i suspect a good head for business........I mean how else can you explain say the continuing popularity of someone like Cliff Richard, not the most talented singer on the block, but 50years in the biz........that has to come down to good business acumen, something that not that many artists posess I suspect, or get exploited too much and by the time they learn the lessons their time is passed.

It be nice to read the Tony Cummings article if someone out there has a transcript.

Rob

so sad to hear and read tragic news about our heros for the most of the guys and girls who poured there heart and soul and sometimes there last dime into creating the music that fills every emotion in us and fills us with so much pleasure and a few tears sometimes there was no justice for them no great reward that they richly deserve .Our thanks to them long after they have gone is to still play there music love it letting the world know how great these guys and girls are and ensuring there names and music live on forever to be enjoyed and loved by all .You cant take money and riches with you when you pass but they can take our admiration love and thanks with them for giving us so much pleasure and through all of this they will be remembered not for any tragedy but by the fantastic artists they were and still are

SOULFULLY KIERAN

  El Corol said:

I like what you have written here Ian.

You have obviously been in touch with, met or know about the artists and musicians that have made the records we love so much. Carl Davis in a real estate office does seem a major waste of talent, better than what happened to Darrell Banks though!

What you said about the music business though is just so true. I only speak as an observer but particularly contracts from the 50's 60's 70's (and I'm sure right through to this day) seemed to shaft the artist unless you were one of the big acts. Diana Ross, Beatles, Stones etc and even they will have their stories to tell, especially in the early days!

It must be very hard to have a talent and get a shot but not quite make it. I sometimes wonder if its better never having had a taste of that world. I mean, imagine being on the books of a big team as a youngster and then being let go to end up playing semi-pro......I would imagine some players adjust well and some don't. Same with the music biz, being an artist with a big label - Motown for instance and then not really making it, well must be a gutter! And like you said luck must play a big part, and i suspect a good head for business........I mean how else can you explain say the continuing popularity of someone like Cliff Richard, not the most talented singer on the block, but 50years in the biz........that has to come down to good business acumen, something that not that many artists posess I suspect, or get exploited too much and by the time they learn the lessons their time is passed.

It be nice to read the Tony Cummings article if someone out there has a transcript.

Rob

Thanks Rob.

It's also worth remembering that creative people are often not business people. Their minds usually work in completely different ways, quite understandably IMO - if you're a musician you generally want to focus on creating music or a performance rather than on the nitty-gritty of the business areas, which are usually best left to management. If you can trust them that is.

I would say that at least 99% of the artists I've met or interviewed have been ripped-off in some form or other - usually in their earlier careers, as both Gloria Jones and Mary Wilson have pointed out on two seperate occasions in the last couple of months alone. Things really haven't changed a great deal since the Frankie Lymon days in some areas of the business - hopelessly bad contracts and/or fraudulent accounting are still the norm for many artists.

Even worse now, is that records aren't selling anymore, so there's even less in the pot to rip-off!

And I'd love to read that Tony Cumming's article again if anyone has it. One of the better ones over the years IMO...

Ian D

Edited May 15, 200817 yr by Ian Dewhirst

I hope I don't get panned too much about this subject; I have no sympathy for any artist or former artist who has fallen on "hard times". That's just the nature of the job, one minute your up with a smash hit and next minute you're a flop who cant sell a record, nowt new about that and certainly some thing that any raising star knows in their heart of hearts.

I, like many, was an aspiring rock star and the lead singer in a band called "The Gyroscopic Nomads" we recorded three records, "Roll on Doomsday", "Fire Bug" and "Lounging round in Battersea", no fooker gives a toss about our band splitting up and only ever selling one record to my Aunty Pat, who didn't even have a record player!

Most of the booh hoo hoo stories you hear are of from one hit wonders who never cut another track or drug addled artists who sang songs that where served to them on a plate, there are millions of great singers out there who are waiting tables.

"Overlooked and forgotten artists" bollocks! You don't have to hit the bottle, hit the needle or hit your wife just coz you suddenly have to get a proper job like 99.9999% of those reading this post.

I know there are some terrible stories from these artists, but every fooker has a story!

  Ian Dewhirst said:

Carl Davis - possibly one of the greatest producer/arrangers of all time working in a real estate office? Bob Relf, Steve Mancha and numerous others drinking themselves to death. Darrell Banks shot on the street. The list is endless.

Ian D

What??

1. Carl Davis is still involved in the business up to a point. I think he would take umbrage at the fact that you have lumped him together with people who were overlooked/impoverished by the music business. He's an icon in his own city/country - at least as much as in the UK.

2. Darrell Banks' death had nothing to do with being impoverished. He was killed in an altercation during what is best described as a 'domestic' incident.

3. Steve Mancha - DEAD??? When? Drank himself to death???? When exactly did this happen?

  ImberBoy said:

I hope I don't get panned too much about this subject; I have no sympathy for any artist or former artist who has fallen on "hard times". That's just the nature of the job, one minute your up with a smash hit and next minute you're a flop who cant sell a record, nowt new about that and certainly some thing that any raising star knows in their heart of hearts.

I, like many, was an aspiring rock star and the lead singer in a band called "The Gyroscopic Nomads" we recorded three records, "Roll on Doomsday", "Fire Bug" and "Lounging round in Battersea", no fooker gives a toss about our band splitting up and only ever selling one record to my Aunty Pat, who didn't even have a record player!

Most of the booh hoo hoo stories you hear are of from one hit wonders who never cut another track or drug addled artists who sang songs that where served to them on a plate, there are millions of great singers out there who are waiting tables.

"Overlooked and forgotten artists" bollocks! You don't have to hit the bottle, hit the needle or hit your wife just coz you suddenly have to get a proper job like 99.9999% of those reading this post.

I know there are some terrible stories from these artists, but every fooker has a story!

i bought fire bug... i thought you were dead!

darrel banks was shot by the old bill, wasn't he?

  ImberBoy said:

I hope I don't get panned too much about this subject; I have no sympathy for any artist or former artist who has fallen on "hard times". That's just the nature of the job, one minute your up with a smash hit and next minute you're a flop who cant sell a record, nowt new about that and certainly some thing that any raising star knows in their heart of hearts.

I, like many, was an aspiring rock star and the lead singer in a band called "The Gyroscopic Nomads" we recorded three records, "Roll on Doomsday", "Fire Bug" and "Lounging round in Battersea", no fooker gives a toss about our band splitting up and only ever selling one record to my Aunty Pat, who didn't even have a record player!

Most of the booh hoo hoo stories you hear are of from one hit wonders who never cut another track or drug addled artists who sang songs that where served to them on a plate, there are millions of great singers out there who are waiting tables.

"Overlooked and forgotten artists" bollocks! You don't have to hit the bottle, hit the needle or hit your wife just coz you suddenly have to get a proper job like 99.9999% of those reading this post.

I know there are some terrible stories from these artists, but every fooker has a story!

You will get panned for this post because that is the nature of today's soulies, you go against the grain, you get a pasting mate. But I agree with you 100%.

  Dave Moore said:

What??

1. Carl Davis is still involved in the business up to a point. I think he would take umbrage at the fact that you have lumped him together with people who were overlooked/impoverished by the music business. He's an icon in his own city/country - at least as much as in the UK.

2. Darrell Banks' death had nothing to do with being impoverished. He was killed in an altercation during what is best described as a 'domestic' incident.

3. Steve Mancha - DEAD??? When? Drank himself to death???? When exactly did this happen?

Whoops, sorry Dave, obviously some clarification required:-

1) Last time I spoke to Carl Davis in the early 90's he was out of the business and working in a real estate office which is a tragedy to

my mind.

2) Darrell Banks' death was also a tragedy no matter how he was killed and no matter what the circumstances surely?

3) When Steve Mancha came over in the mid 80's he was an alcoholic who clearly had trouble functioning on a normal basis which I

also consider to be a tragedy?

All 3 are tragedies Dave, as per the subject of the thread. Different levels of tragedy for sure, but all tragedies in one form or another to my mind...............

Ian D

  Dan said:

darrel banks was shot by the old bill, wasn't he?

Yep.

The person who shot him was a policeman. He was not 'working' at the time. It's generally accepted that Darrell Banks and the policeman's lady were involved in a 'liaison'. This resulted in the policeman, Mr Banks and the lady all being involved in an altercation in Detroit, the result of which was Banks was shot and killed.

  Dave Moore said:

Yep.

The person who shot him was a policeman. He was not 'working' at the time. It's generally accepted that Darrell Banks and the policeman's lady were involved in a 'liaison'. This resulted in the policeman, Mr Banks and the lady all being involved in an altercation in Detroit, the result of which was Banks was shot and killed.

Sounds like he should have kept his love in his pocket!!!!

A bullet fired by an off-duty policeman ended the life of singer Darrell Banks, who made history among his peers in the entertainment field several years ago when scoring a million seller hit with "Open the door".Banks, 35 , was shot and fatally wounded last week by patrolman Aaron Bullock who was attempting to intercede in an alleged assault by the singer on Marjorie Bozeman.

According to statements by witnesses Bullock was dropping Miss Bozeman off at her home on Detroit's west-side around 11 am Tuesday when Banks who had been waiting in his car near the house approached the couple and grabbed Miss Bozeman by the coat stating that he and she were going to talk.

Bullock identified himself as a police officer and ordered Banks to release Miss Bozeman. Banks then pulled a .22 revolver from his waist band and pointed it at the patrolman.

Bullock then reportedly ducked, drew his pistol, and pointed it and fired one shot striking Banks in the neck.

Banks was taken to New Grace Hospital where he was declared dead at 12.10pm.

Ms Bozeman a barmaid in a North West Detroit lounge told investigating officers that she and Banks had been close friends but she was trying to end the relationship.

Friends of Miss Bozeman reported that the couple were last seen together Sunday Feb. 22^nd."

This was the first public announcement of his death. It appeared in the Michigan Chronicle dated March 7th 1970. Issues always appear on the streets on the previous Wednesday, which on this occasion was March 4th.

Therefore Darrell was dead a full 8 days prior to the public announcement

The above info comes from the SoulfulDetroit website

  Ian Dewhirst said:

Whoops, sorry Dave, obviously some clarification required:-

1) Last time I spoke to Carl Davis in the early 90's he was out of the business and working in a real estate office which is a tragedy to

my mind.

2) Darrell Banks' death was also a tragedy no matter how he was killed and no matter what the circumstances surely?

3) When Steve Mancha came over in the mid 80's he was an alcoholic who clearly had trouble functioning on a normal basis which I

also consider to be a tragedy?

All 3 are tragedies Dave, as per the subject of the thread. Different levels of tragedy for sure, but all tragedies in one form or another to my mind...............

Ian D

Yep, Tragedies for sure, although I'd still wager that Mr Davis wouldn't regard himself as a tragic figure at all. Hopefully he will be at SoulTrip 2009 Chicago and we can ask him his opinion. Bank's tragedy was really the fact that he was cut short in life and that his death went relatively unnoticed by his own peers for so long.

I have to point out that Mr Wilson (Steve Mancha) is still alive, albeit not very well having recently suffered a heart attack and a stroke.

  Dan said:

i bought fire bug... i thought you were dead!

Fookin brilliant!!!!!!!

I know there are some terrible stories from these artists, but every fooker has a story!

hi mate, everyone got a story - that's right! that's what this topic is about...not more not less...cheers, matt

  Dave Moore said:

Yep, Tragedies for sure, although I'd still wager that Mr Davis wouldn't regard himself as a tragic figure at all. Hopefully he will be at SoulTrip 2009 Chicago and we can ask him his opinion. Bank's tragedy was really the fact that he was cut short in life and that his death went relatively unnoticed by his own peers for so long.

I have to point out that Mr Wilson (Steve Mancha) is still alive, albeit not very well having recently suffered a heart attack and a stroke.

For sure Carl Davis is the least tragic of all the people I mentioned. A delightful fellow who was nothing less than a pleasure to deal with when I had to licence something from him. I think Carl was one of the lucky ones who was obviously forced to do some real estate work when the studio work dropped off for him in the mid 90's. THAT was the tragedy for me - the fact that such a consumate arrangement genius should be reduced to working in a real estate office.

Mind you, far better that then going down the Steve Mancha route for sure, which probably accounts in part for his current predicament.

Ian D

  ImberBoy said:

i bought fire bug... i thought you were dead!

Fookin brilliant!!!!!!!

So you're the bloke out The Prodigy????

I think a little perspective is required here.

People live their lives, they have ups and downs, peaks and troughs, the world over, whatever nationality they may be.

In the case of a teacher (Ann Sexton for example) they have given, and received, so, soo much (in her taecher role alone), that their lives are a simple triumph to them, theirs and the people that have come into contact with them, the people that they have so obviously influenced.

A gift in itself, pride and a huge achievement.

Don't get unnecessarily misty eyed over our US loves, they have lived and loved as much, if not more, than you/us.

I know that we can never influence those people as they have us - and for that they will always be on a pedestal.

It seems that certain people see our musical heroes lives as something less than their own, tougher maybe - by making said hero and their life efforts seem more difficult than ours/yours/the bloke next door....they are not.

Everybody has a tragedy if you want to wax lyrical about it - it's just that the majority of us haven't impressed as much as our heroes have.

I am quite positive that their lives are not in actual fact as down-trodden as you would like to make out.

No doubt there are real tragedies, but lets not lose sight of our heroes real triumphs in life, lets celebrate those moments.

Views?

Edited May 16, 200817 yr by Barry

So many soul legends fell victim to drink, drugs, lovers, domestics, their own failings etc ...

However in the case of Curtis Mayfield, a freak wind gust caused a several tonne lighting rig to fall on him while he was on stage performing, rendering him a paraplegic.

No one deserves to have a fate like that.

Of all the legends who have fallen away over the years , Curtis' is surely the most tragic ...

  sunnysoul said:

So many soul legends fell victim to drink, drugs, lovers, domestics, their own failings etc ...

However in the case of Curtis Mayfield, a freak wind gust caused a several tonne lighting rig to fall on him while he was on stage performing, rendering him a paraplegic.

No one deserves to have a fate like that.

Of all the legends who have fallen away over the years , Curtis' is surely the most tragic ...

Absolutely Sunnysoul. Just terrible.

And then you think about Teddy Pendergrass and Johnny Wilder from Heatwave suffering similar fates from car crashes.

And Marvin being shot by his dad whilst sequestered in a small bedroom off his head on coke.

And Tammi Terrell's 'suspicious' death.

And Otis' death in a plane crash.

Phew.

The percentage of tragedies for Soul Singers is long and deep and extends all the way from Frankie Lymon to Tupac Shakur.

Tragic.

Ian D

A tragedy is a tragedy regardless of who it happens to.

But we are Soul Music fans - and when tragedy befalls those artists who were responsible for the creation of the music we love we have a right to wish them well and feel that they might well have deserved better - especially in a world where minor talent is, so often, amply rewarded.

I feel that anyone who wouldn't mourn for the sad life and death of James Carr (for example) just wouldn't really be able to appreciate his genius.

Sean

  sunnysoul said:

So many soul legends fell victim to drink, drugs, lovers, domestics, their own failings etc ...

However in the case of Curtis Mayfield, a freak wind gust caused a several tonne lighting rig to fall on him while he was on stage performing, rendering him a paraplegic.

No one deserves to have a fate like that.

Of all the legends who have fallen away over the years , Curtis' is surely the most tragic ...

I've got to agree with you here Sunnysoul, you wouldn't wish an accident like Curtis' on your worst enemy let alone one of the most gentle, sensitive, thoughtful, peaceful, intelligent and well sussed guys in the history of the music industry. If presidents and leaders of nations had a fraction of the qualities that Curtis had, the world would surely be a safer, better place.

As for Imberboys comments, I think you're talking shite.

"I, like many, was an aspiring rock star and the lead singer in a band called "The Gyroscopic Nomads" we recorded three records, "Roll on Doomsday", "Fire Bug" and "Lounging round in Battersea", no fooker gives a toss about our band splitting up and only ever selling one record to my Aunty Pat, who didn't even have a record player!"

You're right, nobodies bothered about your ROCK band that never made it, this is a soul site, but there are are a lot of us that are bothered about the fact that the criminally unrecognised and unrewarded soul artists such as Ann Sexton etc never got the recognition they deserved.

"Most of the booh hoo hoo stories you hear are of from one hit wonders who never cut another track or drug addled artists who sang songs that where served to them on a plate, there are millions of great singers out there who are waiting tables."

You don't hear "Boo Hoo" stories from the artists. There will be thousands of stories of injustice, rip offs, lack of exposure, airplay and distribution of fantastic music, but you don't hear the artists moaning about it. It's only the soul fans who have for the last 40 years appreciated the efforts of these artists, who are talking about it. The artists and producers have known only too well that shit inferior rock and pop artists have always been higher up in the pecking order when it comes to making a living off the music, and yes there might be loads of great singers waiting tables, but to me, that is a crying shame. There's a lot more to soul than just the music, or your scooter.

Jordi

  Pete S said:

You will get panned for this post because that is the nature of today's soulies, you go against the grain, you get a pasting mate. But I agree with you 100%.

I have never met you Pete (although we have corisponded on a few occasions and I have bought from you). Despite never meeting I trust you completly and have a huge amount of respect for you because of your honesty & integrity.

unfortunatly the same cannot be said for all people, whether it be artists, producers, managers, record dealers, soulies etc etc

now there is a real tragic story

KTF

mike

I had the good fortune to meet cleveland horn (carstairs) what a nice humble guy.

we chatted before he went on stage over here for the first time, i asked him what he expected, he had no idea at all.

He came on to a standing ovation and was taken aback, started crying and said "over here im a star at home im a nobody" he was astounded that everyone knew all the words to his songs etc.

Two weeks later he was dead. I find that sad.

  Quote

And then you think about Teddy Pendergrass

No judgement being made from myself here at all, each to their own but, the situation prior to Teddy's particular accident could have been avoided had he not been involved in the situation he was, a situation that has been recorded, that brought about his lack of concentration on that fateful evening.

A situation that I'm quite sure isn't recommended by driving instructors the world over.

Tragic maybe, avoidable - definately.

I see the ideal behind this thread, a humanitarian one at heart, maybe empathy for respected others - but also a tad morbid, I think.

...the way Jackie Wilson died is still shocking me!!! He lapsed into a coma in 1975, suffering major brain damage, and was hospitalized until his death in early 1984 !!!

by the way: that Otis Redding died Dec. 10, 1967, just before his song "(Sitting on the) Dock of the Bay" became a No. 1 hit is also a tragedy to me...

...with him died four members of the Bar-Kays!!!

Edited May 26, 200817 yr by matt fox

  Sean Hampsey said:

A tragedy is a tragedy regardless of who it happens to.

But we are Soul Music fans - and when tragedy befalls those artists who were responsible for the creation of the music we love we have a right to wish them well and feel that they might well have deserved better - especially in a world where minor talent is, so often, amply rewarded.

I feel that anyone who wouldn't mourn for the sad life and death of James Carr (for example) just wouldn't really be able to appreciate his genius.

Sean

totally agree Sean, saw him in holland and a few of us from the Uk waved to him (no more than a yard or two away, he was oblivious or propbably ignoring those boring bastards )

Virtually had to be led on stage and off, would bring a tear to a glass eye