News: Once Upon a Time Live Version - Reply

[Mike]

A reply to recent criticism of a forthcoming re-worked live version of the much respected northern soul related play.

read more

https://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/SoulSourceR...e-version-reply

[Paul-s]

A reply to recent criticism of a forthcoming re-worked live version of the much respected northern soul related play.

read more

https://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/SoulSourceR...e-version-reply

I have read the Octogan's reply's. Done by a publicist who knows nothing of the scene. Anyway, here is what I replied. They seem to be not posting up anything that they dont like, so lets keep checking to see if my post gets put up!

This is the post I put on their site....cant see it on there yet though?

Hi,

I have already expressed my horror at your end of season' celebratory musical party' approach to the play. The play that was devised from my own experiences as well as that of many others.

People who gave us access to their memories, based this on my Northern Soul credentials, not those of Mick Martin. Mick gained access to those 'true souls' via myself and their trust in me.

It seems strange that I had to ask you to remove reviews that were on your site, that were based on my production of the play...if you are indeed trying to do a new interpretation?

Also you seem to be using a lot of the same iconography and poster images. An image that my production actually turned into an icon!

Could it be that you are trying to fool the potentially large audiences who went to see the Urban Expansions production into thinking this is one and the same piece? There are many, many thousands of pictures that you could have used but you seem to be, dare I say it, trying to confuse the two very different productions.

It doesn't matter if you have the worlds greatest house band and singers, the fact that you use that as a defence merely adds to the truth, that you have missed the whole point and should not be allowed to stomp on people's hard-earned memories.

The scene was, and is, about the original artists and vinyl, not some dodgy cover artists. We have Amy Winehouse and Duffy to do that. It seems that you do not and never will get it.

You for instance, forgive me if I'm mistaken, are not from the scene, but represent The Octagon's interests in terms of image and publicity? I feel like I am debating with a person of no knowledgeable point of view. When you sign 'Keep The Faith' at the end of the 'blurb', do you actually know what that means?

Artistic policy? I don't think so. I could quote boring old examples as you do (my background being theatre for the last 25 years), but it would seem and is, irrelevant.

The fact that Bolton is one of the centres of the scene and that you are trying to stage this piece in such a 'West End' frivolous way, points to the fact that, as a venue, you are way out of touch with your surrounding community's history and soul.

Artistic freedom cannot be used to justify ignorance so please not do use it as an excuse for your approach.

I do not need to see your production, as the fact that you are using a band to represent vinyl, is the only evidence needed, to certify the fact that you know nothing about the subject with which you are dealing.

Also, it seems you are using some of the actors from my original production?

Could you not even be bothered to audition and find new ones? Richard Oldham seems a little long in the tooth now to be portraying a 19-year-old!

Anyway, we will see if this gets edited or posted on your (We want your views) forum

If not it will certainly be posted on ALL the 'SOUL' sites to announce that you censor responses on your forum.

Many thanks

Paul Sadot

Devisor, producer and director of the original 'Once Upon A Time In Wigan' by

Urban Expansions Limited.

Keep The Faith...ha!

Edited May 21, 2008 by paul-s

[Jumpinjoan]

Vey well put Paul.

I too replied, mine hasn't been posted up either.

[Paul-s]

Vey well put Paul.

I too replied, mine hasn't been posted up either.

Strange that Joan...they want to hear 'our' views!

[Paul-s]

Vey well put Paul.

I too replied, mine hasn't been posted up either.

Just checked and it seems they put mine up, but not yours Joanie.....censorship?

[Guest]

A reply to recent criticism of a forthcoming re-worked live version of the much respected northern soul related play.

[Paul Sadot's reply is now on the blog spot for any prospective audience member to read.

Why such bitterness? Yes it is a bit weird to not be using original recordings, but it's a play, just like Hamlet and Waiting for Godot. It is a story about four fictional people, based in the reality of memories of people who were there, improvisations from actors (I'm sure not all of which were sourced direct from the soul scene) and the imagination of the writer as well as the vision of it's first director. It is out there now to be interpreted in any way any theatre sees fit.

The original show was amazing, moving and certainly introduced me (a previous northern soul ignoramous) to some of the most beautiful and important music ever produced. I am sure it did so for many others. If it really is all about the music then this, surely, is a good thing. This new production does not need to be so visciously attacked then... you did your job, it was great, brilliant even, if this production isn't any good, then let the audiences decide for themselves.]

plied. They seem to be not posting up anything that they dont like, so lets keep checking to see if my post gets put up! ;)

This is the post I put on their site....cant see it on there yet though?

Hi,

I have already expressed my horror at your end of season' celebratory musical party' approach to the play. The play that was devised from my own experiences as well as that of many others.

People who gave us access to their memories, based this on my Northern Soul credentials, not those of Mick Martin. Mick gained access to those 'true souls' via myself and their trust in me.

It seems strange that I had to ask you to remove reviews that were on your site, that were based on my production of the play...if you are indeed trying to do a new interpretation?

Also you seem to be using a lot of the same iconography and poster images. An image that my production actually turned into an icon!

Could it be that you are trying to fool the potentially large audiences who went to see the Urban Expansions production into thinking this is one and the same piece? There are many, many thousands of pictures that you could have used but you seem to be, dare I say it, trying to confuse the two very different productions.

It doesn't matter if you have the worlds greatest house band and singers, the fact that you use that as a defence merely adds to the truth, that you have missed the whole point and should not be allowed to stomp on people's hard-earned memories.

The scene was, and is, about the original artists and vinyl, not some dodgy cover artists. We have Amy Winehouse and Duffy to do that. It seems that you do not and never will get it.

You for instance, forgive me if I'm mistaken, are not from the scene, but represent The Octagon's interests in terms of image and publicity? I feel like I am debating with a person of no knowledgeable point of view. When you sign 'Keep The Faith' at the end of the 'blurb', do you actually know what that means?

Artistic policy? I don't think so. I could quote boring old examples as you do (my background being theatre for the last 25 years), but it would seem and is, irrelevant.

The fact that Bolton is one of the centres of the scene and that you are trying to stage this piece in such a 'West End' frivolous way, points to the fact that, as a venue, you are way out of touch with your surrounding community's history and soul.

Artistic freedom cannot be used to justify ignorance so please not do use it as an excuse for your approach.

I do not need to see your production, as the fact that you are using a band to represent vinyl, is the only evidence needed, to certify the fact that you know nothing about the subject with which you are dealing.

Also, it seems you are using some of the actors from my original production?

Could you not even be bothered to audition and find new ones? Richard Oldham seems a little long in the tooth now to be portraying a 19-year-old!

Anyway, we will see if this gets edited or posted on your (We want your views) forum

If not it will certainly be posted on ALL the 'SOUL' sites to announce that you censor responses on your forum.

Many thanks

Paul Sadot

Devisor, producer and director of the original 'Once Upon A Time In Wigan' by

Urban Expansions Limited.

Keep The Faith...ha!

[Mike]

A reply to recent criticism of a forthcoming re-worked live version of the much respected northern soul related play.

[Paul Sadot's reply is now on the blog spot for any prospective audience member to read.

Why such bitterness? Yes it is a bit weird to not be using original recordings, but it's a play, just like Hamlet and Waiting for Godot. It is a story about four fictional people, based in the reality of memories of people who were there, improvisations from actors (I'm sure not all of which were sourced direct from the soul scene) and the imagination of the writer as well as the vision of it's first director. It is out there now to be interpreted in any way any theatre sees fit.

The original show was amazing, moving and certainly introduced me (a previous northern soul ignoramous) to some of the most beautiful and important music ever produced. I am sure it did so for many others. If it really is all about the music then this, surely, is a good thing. This new production does not need to be so visciously attacked then... you did your job, it was great, brilliant even, if this production isn't any good, then let the audiences decide for themselves.

quick one nodontknowu

thanks for posting, as a new member can you please post an intro in the intro forum

just so members know where you are coming from

plus suggest you change your username ( via your controls) as current one is a bit stalky and doesnt quite fit into the "open" sort of feeling like to promote on here

hope you enjoy the site

mike

[Jumpinjoan]

A reply to recent criticism of a forthcoming re-worked live version of the much respected northern soul related play.

[Paul Sadot's reply is now on the blog spot for any prospective audience member to read.

Why such bitterness? Yes it is a bit weird to not be using original recordings, but it's a play, just like Hamlet and Waiting for Godot. It is a story about four fictional people, based in the reality of memories of people who were there, improvisations from actors (I'm sure not all of which were sourced direct from the soul scene) and the imagination of the writer as well as the vision of it's first director. It is out there now to be interpreted in any way any theatre sees fit.

The original show was amazing, moving and certainly introduced me (a previous northern soul ignoramous) to some of the most beautiful and important music ever produced. I am sure it did so for many others. If it really is all about the music then this, surely, is a good thing. This new production does not need to be so visciously attacked then... you did your job, it was great, brilliant even, if this production isn't any good, then let the audiences decide for themselves.]

I also replied on that blog, as did others, so why just pick out Paul's reply?

The 'bitterness' as you call it is more like anger and disbelief about how they can replace all the original music (which, seeings as you obviously don't have a clue, is what the soul scene is all about) with an in house band singing the songs instead, which is sacriledge imo.

The entire play is based around Wigan Casino, where people danced to RECORDS, not a live band doing their own 'take' on those records.

You say the characters are fictional, the place certainly wasn't, nor was the music, and without that music those four actors on stage would not have been able to hold the interest of an audience for three hours, no matter how good they were.

The music is THE most important part of the play, and when that music is such an important part of the lives of everyone on here, what did you expect?

[Guest nubes]

I also replied on that blog, as did others, so why just pick out Paul's reply?

The 'bitterness' as you call it is more like anger and disbelief about how they can replace all the original music (which, seeings as you obviously don't have a clue, is what the soul scene is all about) with an in house band singing the songs instead, which is sacriledge imo.

The entire play is based around Wigan Casino, where people danced to RECORDS, not a live band doing their own 'take' on those records.

You say the characters are fictional, the place certainly wasn't, nor was the music, and without that music those four actors on stage would not have been able to hold the interest of an audience for three hours, no matter how good they were.

The music is THE most important part of the play, and when that music is such an important part of the lives of everyone on here, what did you expect?

Well said Joan ....i spotted this on the Octagon Blog and told Mike about it....again...there seems to be this attitude from those who are not on the scene..to try and recreate an alternative...what annoyed me the most was the statement from Sally Boyd..claming that there was another way of telling the story....why change the original...it seemed to be fine by most of us...and to use a houseband to describe a scene which has built it's foundations on vinyl...shows a complete lack of knowing anything about it...imo......Delxxx

[Pat Bleasdale]

I also replied on that blog, as did others, so why just pick out Paul's reply?

The 'bitterness' as you call it is more like anger and disbelief about how they can replace all the original music (which, seeings as you obviously don't have a clue, is what the soul scene is all about) with an in house band singing the songs instead, which is sacriledge imo.

The entire play is based around Wigan Casino, where people danced to RECORDS, not a live band doing their own 'take' on those records.

You say the characters are fictional, the place certainly wasn't, nor was the music, and without that music those four actors on stage would not have been able to hold the interest of an audience for three hours, no matter how good they were.

The music is THE most important part of the play, and when that music is such an important part of the lives of everyone on here, what did you expect?

WELL SAID JOAN.

[Paul-s]

A reply to recent criticism of a forthcoming re-worked live version of the much respected northern soul related play.

[Paul Sadot's reply is now on the blog spot for any prospective audience member to read.

Why such bitterness? Yes it is a bit weird to not be using original recordings, but it's a play, just like Hamlet and Waiting for Godot. It is a story about four fictional people, based in the reality of memories of people who were there, improvisations from actors (I'm sure not all of which were sourced direct from the soul scene) and the imagination of the writer as well as the vision of it's first director. It is out there now to be interpreted in any way any theatre sees fit.

The original show was amazing, moving and certainly introduced me (a previous northern soul ignoramous) to some of the most beautiful and important music ever produced. I am sure it did so for many others. If it really is all about the music then this, surely, is a good thing. This new production does not need to be so visciously attacked then... you did your job, it was great, brilliant even, if this production isn't any good, then let the audiences decide for themselves.]

I really dont know why i bother replying to such tenuous , almost vacuous rubbish!

You seem to quote theatre without having ANY credible knowledge whatsoever. But, because im patient here goes , for you (oh! mystery one ).

Godot is a surrealist play base on abstract thoughts...hadn't you noticed? given your vast knowledge of theatre? Hamlet is a period FICTION, hadn't you noticed?

The play, is a FACT...it happened and it happened that way! THEY PLAYED VINYL! WE didn't go to hear a bunch of actor musicians playing cover versions of black American artists songs! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS?

Its a socio-historic piece. Im sure your not re-writting the political content of the play? So why re write the musical facts? Especially when dealing with a subject where musical authenticity is paramount?!

What next for Bolton Octagon..A play about the Jewish Holocaust with no victims?

Or perhaps THE MINERS STRIKE...but ALL the pits stay open and communities thrive....Hey, now theres an idea for your next socio-historic panto.

P.S. if the Octagon can't get ANYONE articulate to post...please dont bother. Im busy on my next play.

Keep The Faith

PAUL SADOT

P.s. "Your sure ALL of which were not sourced directly from the soul scene"...Well, im SURE they were, because I directed it and YOU DIDN'T You say you were a "northern soul ignoramous"? I think we can safely say that you still are, dont you!

[Reg]

A reply to recent criticism of a forthcoming re-worked live version of the much respected northern soul related play.

[Paul Sadot's reply is now on the blog spot for any prospective audience member to read.

Why such bitterness? Yes it is a bit weird to not be using original recordings, but it's a play, just like Hamlet and Waiting for Godot. It is a story about four fictional people, based in the reality of memories of people who were there, improvisations from actors (I'm sure not all of which were sourced direct from the soul scene) and the imagination of the writer as well as the vision of it's first director. It is out there now to be interpreted in any way any theatre sees fit.

The original show was amazing, moving and certainly introduced me (a previous northern soul ignoramous) to some of the most beautiful and important music ever produced. I am sure it did so for many others. If it really is all about the music then this, surely, is a good thing. This new production does not need to be so visciously attacked then... you did your job, it was great, brilliant even, if this production isn't any good, then let the audiences decide for themselves.]

I really dont know why i bother replying to such tenuous , almost vacuous rubbish!

You seem to quote theatre without having ANY credible knowledge whatsoever. But, because im patient here goes , for you (oh! mystery one ).

Godot is a surrealist play base on abstract thoughts...hadn't you noticed? given your vast knowledge of theatre? Hamlet is a period FICTION, hadn't you noticed?

The play, is a FACT...it happened and it happened that way! THEY PLAYED VINYL! WE didn't go to hear a bunch of actor musicians playing cover versions of black American artists songs! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS?

Its a socio-historic piece. Im sure your not re-writting the political content of the play? So why re write the musical facts? Especially when dealing with a subject where musical authenticity is paramount?!

What next for Bolton Octagon..A play about the Jewish Holocaust with no victims?

Or perhaps THE MINERS STRIKE...but ALL the pits stay open and communities thrive....Hey, now theres an idea for your next socio-historic panto.

P.S. if the Octagon can't get ANYONE articulate to post...please dont bother. Im busy on my next play.

Keep The Faith

PAUL SADOT

P.s. "Your sure ALL of which were not sourced directly from the soul scene"...Well, im SURE they were, because I directed it and YOU DIDN'T You say you were a "northern soul ignoramous"? I think we can safely say that you still are, dont you!

Love it....the last bit especially.....you say you were a "northern soul ignoramous"? I think we can safely say that you still are, dont you!...

Good on ya Paul

By the way does "Emma" exist in any reality??

Edited May 27, 2008 by reg

[Paul-s]

Love it....the last bit especially.....you say you were a "northern soul ignoramous"? I think we can safely say that you still are, dont you!...

Good on ya Paul

By the way does "Emma" exist in any reality??

I think its Bolton Octagon and Cohorts attemping to muster together an intelligent comment! Not doing very well so far though. I posted this in reply to an EMMA comment on their blog....bless her.

DUH, if you saw the original play Emma, you obviously missed the whole point!? The Vinyl

The play WAS for "anyone", thats obviously why you enjoyed the ORIGINAL production.

You, 'theatre people' (so you think!) keep quoting Beckett, Pinter etc...give it a rest. What next for Bolton Octagons re-writes of History

THE JEWISH HOLOCAUST , without any victims?

THE MINERS STRIKE, but ALL the mines stay open and communities thrive?

Because that is what you are advocating with your 'artistic freedom' excuse.

How about artistic integrity and respect for the subject matter.....especially when dealing with a socio-historic subject matter? Wigan only happened one way...it centred around and succeeded because of, wait for it Emma....VINYL!

Of course people didn't talk in monologues, dont be so patronising or should i say, simplistic!

Is Babbage re-writing the political content of the play? Do all the mills stay open in your version? Do Danny , Eugene etc have a bright future under Thatchers reign?

So, why do you feel you can re-write the musical content. As, many people have already said, it shows your utter ignorance of what you are trying to portray.

Keep The Faith

PAUL SADOT

Edited May 27, 2008 by paul-s

[Jumpinjoan]

By the way does "Emma" exist in any reality??

Ha ha, exactly what I thought Paul.

I just posted this.

Excuse me - hate campaign?

Talk about dramatic - ever thought about a career on the stage Emma? Or is that Sally?

The play itself might be fictitious, but the setting wasn't and neither was the music.

"Sometimes you've just got to know when to let it go."

Why is that then Emma?

Surely you're not suggesting that only people in agreement should post their views?

Tut tut, I wonder what Alan Bennett or Harold Pinter would think about that?

Joan Livesey

[Ritchieandrew]

Ha ha, exactly what I thought Paul.

I just posted this.

Excuse me - hate campaign?

Talk about dramatic - ever thought about a career on the stage Emma? Or is that Sally?

The play itself might be fictitious, but the setting wasn't and neither was the music.

"Sometimes you've just got to know when to let it go."

Why is that then Emma?

Surely you're not suggesting that only people in agreement should post their views?

Tut tut, I wonder what Alan Bennett or Harold Pinter would think about that?

Joan Livesey

I am firmly on the side of Joan and Paul, regarding this issue. my advise is:

Nil caborundum desporandum (Don't let them grind you down) as we All know who the real "Pretenders" are.!!!!!

Best Regards Ritchie.

Edited May 27, 2008 by RitchieAndrew

[Paul-s]

I am firmly on the side of Joan and Paul, regarding this issue. my advise is:

Nil caborundum desporandum (Don't let them grind you down) as we All know who the real "Pretenders" are.!!!!!

Best Regards Ritchie.

Cheers Richie,

the octagon can only quote theatre references and they are not even very good or accurate at that (their chosen profession )! Imagine the hash they will make of a play about the scene.....Im almost tempted by its comic value alone. Laughing at it, not with it of course!

[Paul-s]

Poor old SALLY doesn't seem to be able to keep up. Still two unpublished replies from me. I think they have to have a board meeting for each one, to see if their limited collective knowledge can muster a reply!

Here is the second (as yet unpublished reply)

Come on Emma,

sorry, I mean Sally. Get my reply up. Its already on 'Soul Source', they seem more organised than you?

"Sometimes you just have to let go" and post the thoughts of the people .

By the way, I thought, being involved in theatre, that you would be aware that Bennett and Pinter dont just let anyone put their plays on? Their agents exercise artistic control and if they feel a director would not be worthy or bright enough to stage it, they dont release the performing rights? Suprised you dont know that Sal? Being a theatre boffin!

Difference here is the writer of Wigan seems to have no artistic integrity and a strong desire to make a bob or two, no matter what. Even if it involves selling the 'collective souls' of all those who gave him access and help.

Better get posting these up or you will have a back log.

Keeping The Faith

Paul Sadot

........poor old Sally. Having an intellectual crisis aswell as an identity crisis.

[Paul-s]

Poor old Sally Boyd, still not out of the board meeting with a reply!? Bless!

This is a copy of my third, as yet not published on the Octagons (we want your views site) reply.

Come on Sally, wheres our posts? Are you too busy studying the history of the soul scene to put them up?

You posted the last one of Emmas today. Do you need permission, after the board meeting to come up with a reply? Its hardly rapid response debate is it? Sort of echoes your enthusiasm for the subjectI think!

Keep The Faith

Paul Sadot

Proves their site is a farce really.