Empires"youre On Top Girl". Thinking Of Selling

[Guest toby]

Hi all ..

I'm thinking that ive a record that does not quite go with the other stuff in my collection,and im thinking of selling it.

Serious offers only please..

THE EMPIRES " YOUR ON TOP GIRL" 7" METAL ONE SIDED ACETATE,BELL SOUND ETC.

Condition..plays very very good only a very faint at the start,no pops ,crackles etc..

please the scans..

pm s with only serious offers only(if i sell i wont take paypal,due to the charges)

Thanks

Toby.

[Guest toby]

Ive been offerd £1000 already and im thinking about it still,(that was a £1000 in cash i might add).

toby.

[Guest Gavin Page]

What a find mate !!!!

[Guest toby]

What a find mate !!!!

I know Gavin,nearly had heart failure,sweated up etc,but being a good ole Letchworth soul boy(yeehaa),i kept my composure and phoned everyone i could think of just to wind em up so to speak.

Its most likely the best find ive ever had since the 70s,when i found The Jiva tones "Flirty Girty" on uk Felsted,most likely the uks rarest rock n roll tune at the time.

Toby.

[Guest Gavin Page]

I know Gavin,nearly had heart failure,sweated up etc,but being a good ole Letchworth soul boy(yeehaa),i kept my composure and phoned everyone i could think of just to wind em up so to speak.

Its most likely the best find ive ever had since the 70s,when i found The Jiva tones "Flirty Girty" on uk Felsted,most likely the uks rarest rock n roll tune at the time.

Toby.

Thing is, how did it end up there ?

What else does the guy have ?

I would have been throwing up

[Guest toby]

Thing is, how did it end up there ?

What else does the guy have ?

I would have been throwing up

He had a few bits and bobs(some of which were utter shite)not so if you like early 1930s 40s style vocalists.....got a few bits of him which im keeping under my hat for a bit,Ive got the guys phone # etc,hes a bit like a del boy type,deals in obje'art and JUNK .

Tell you what it did sound good at the Irish Center on friday night,i got a few "what the f***s he got there then,from the bigger collectors in there..

[Guest gordon russell]

toby will you take £2.99 and a catapult and some bigssy marbles and a beano annual...and a look up my sisters skirt

[Guest toby]

toby will you take £2.99 and a catapult and some bigssy marbles and a beano annual...and a look up my sisters skirt

Terry i already have the full set of beano anuals,dont like marbles i get confused with me glass eye and put the wrong one in,i could use your sisters knicker elastic for my catapult.As for looking at the sister, i dont think so she'd love it tooo much.

[Simsy]

So is this record actually for sale Toby?

[Guest]

Edited May 12, 2008 by recordwanted

[Benji]

...record that does not quite go with the other stuff in my collection...

Toby,

now this puzzles me. How can this record not go with any other stuff in your collection? I think it's one of the best 60s tunes ever recorded and if I had it I wouldn't sell it in a million years...

[Guest Andy Kempster]

Hi all ..

I'm thinking that ive a record that does not quite go with the other stuff in my collection,and im thinking of selling it.

Serious offers only please..

THE EMPIRES " YOUR ON TOP GIRL" 7" METAL ONE SIDED ACETATE,BELL SOUND ETC.

Condition..plays very very good only a very faint at the start,no pops ,crackles etc..

please the scans..

pm s with only serious offers only(if i sell i wont take paypal,due to the charges)

Thanks

Toby.

sure i've seen this in someones sales box...nice mark up

[Guest toby]

Now staying in my collection,no longer for sale sorry..

[Guest Gavin Page]

Now staying in my collection,no longer for sale sorry..

Good move

[Garethx]

What makes you think it's a genuine, original acetate? The Bell Sound label looks like it's been peeled off another disc and stuck on this one. Would this recording ever have been previewed on a Bell Sound disc? I don't want to appear awkward or uncharitable, but provenance is everything with these types of records. Collectors have been having Northern monsters cut to existing blank acetates for decades. They've been cutting their own acetates and slapping well known manufacturers labels on them to make them look 'authentic'.

[pikeys dog]

What makes you think it's a genuine, original acetate? The Bell Sound label looks like it's been peeled off another disc and stuck on this one. Would this recording ever have been previewed on a Bell Sound disc? I don't want to appear awkward or uncharitable, but provenance is everything with these types of records. Collectors have been having Northern monsters cut to existing blank acetates for decades. They've been cutting their own acetates and slapping well known manufacturers labels on them to make them look 'authentic'.

And here I was thinking that it looked extremely suspect, and that it was just me being my cynical self.

[Russoul1]

What makes you think it's a genuine, original acetate? The Bell Sound label looks like it's been peeled off another disc and stuck on this one. Would this recording ever have been previewed on a Bell Sound disc? I don't want to appear awkward or uncharitable, but provenance is everything with these types of records. Collectors have been having Northern monsters cut to existing blank acetates for decades. They've been cutting their own acetates and slapping well known manufacturers labels on them to make them look 'authentic'.

toby are sure this is the real deal, ive seen this acetate in a sales box or something very

similar at the dkof, dont know whos it was but it had £25 on it, if not mate awesome find!

regards

russ

[pikeys dog]

Paper on the label is wrong.... looks just like standard cartridge paper.

All the Bell sound acetate I own, or have handled, have got a waxy finish to the label.

[Simsy]

Moving to look at your box section.

[Trev Thomas]

Paper on the label is wrong.... looks just like standard cartridge paper.

All the Bell sound acetate I own, or have handled, have got a waxy finish to the label.

thats what i thought, plus, all the bell sound acetates ive come across have typed credits.......looks well dodgy to me

[Guest Trevski]

Stuff like this, unless a provenance can be established, I would always steer well clear of, especialy at that price. Better waiting for a vg+ candi copy if you can afford £1000 for an acetate. Just MHO of course, which is worth s**t!

[Guest]

If you look close there is some writing underneath the label.

[Guest Trevski]

If you look close there is some writing underneath the label.

Looks more like ink that has worn/washed off to me ken.

[Guest]

Looks more like ink that has worn/washed off to me ken.

could be your right Trev,a first for you........

[Steve G]

What makes you think it's a genuine, original acetate? The Bell Sound label looks like it's been peeled off another disc and stuck on this one. Would this recording ever have been previewed on a Bell Sound disc? I don't want to appear awkward or uncharitable, but provenance is everything with these types of records. Collectors have been having Northern monsters cut to existing blank acetates for decades. They've been cutting their own acetates and slapping well known manufacturers labels on them to make them look 'authentic'.

hi Gareth

I've seen the disc, and on it's face in a darkened room it looks as if it might be legit . Though accept that nothing is ever 100% guaranteed in this world so it would need a close inspection.

Interested to know about the one at DKOF.

Toby wasn't there other non northern stuff in this box as well?

Steve

Edited May 13, 2008 by Steve G

[Garethx]

On looking at my post again I think it looks a bit confrontational: this wasn't my intention, so apologies Toby if you felt I was being unfair.

At the time the topic was in the sales section and I thought there are just too many questions over this particular record for it to go to sale without discussing it.

I have my doubts over whether a Candi/Chavis record would have been test-pressed at Bell Sound in New York. Has anyone else got a genuine Bell Sound acetate of any of this group of labels releases? Major New York labels or any of the larger independents such as Jubilee: yes. But a small label from Wilmington? I don't know.

The first post states that the other side is blank, but the scan shows it has a track with a run out. A lot of acetates which are blank on one side tend not to have any label at all on that side (though not all, as these kind of records are far from an exact science, maybe the whole point). The blank side therefore becomes a very convenient canvas on which to cut a naughty acetate of a big sound.

If the record was bought in the US I would be more prepared to believe it was genuine. If it were found in the UK doubts would start to creep in. This particular title has been in-demand for over twenty five years here and by the early 80s people were already going beyond simple emidiscs when pressing acetates of in-demand titles: sometimes going to great lengths as seen by the scan of The Ringleaders TP in the topic last week (I'm not referring to the genuine Ringleaders discs being auctioned by John Manship but the alternative scan as posted on Benji's site which had the correct serial number but which looked totally unlike the authentic discs).

As for the credits being hand-written as opposed to typed: again, there are no hard and fast rules on this; I too have seen both variants on Bell Sound discs.

On a related note: what does everyone think the Mel Britt acetate on ebay will go for? Enough about that suggests it's genuine. Completely unplayable but a fascinating part of Northern Soul history, I would have thought.

[Prophonics 2029]

I am wondering if it was a biro pen used to right the name credits on these acetate labels, or if there was as a clerical way of doing them with a fountain pen.

Err not these acetates but acetes in general if there was a ritual filling in the paper work then lebeling the disc chhhooorrr I am getting excited just thinking about it.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Dave Thorley]

I have a a fair few Bell Sound Studio Disc. Just about anyone could use their services. But it did tend to be New York/New Jersey labels and artists. Although I have got some Bobby Womack Minit recordings on Bell sound.

As said before, the labels have a slight gloss/wax finish to them and most are typed info and faily complete as they were a very professional company, but not all.

The discs produced there had many purposes, as a form of test pressings, promotional for favored DJ's; for record label internal product meetings playing different takes before deciding which was released; quality control discs and independant artists producing them to hawk round labels trying to get signed.

I have some that are ABC artists, but a different artist and song on each sides. These I guess were produced for internal use only.

Again as already stated, knowing the history is everything. Find one with an unreleased track, different take, owned by the artists or producer themselves and you have a important bit of music history. But it is a bigger mine field than collecting vinyl, if you can't get good history on a disc, beware.

[Marc Forrest]

I have a a fair few Bell Sound Studio Disc.

Sure you have Dave, one certain one by one Herman or Hermon spontaneously springs to my mind as one hell of an acetate

The acetate here "in question" seems to have had some serious contact with water, whcih explains the loss in ink, the loss in shiny gloss and the "waves" on the label sticker. So both, the faded ink and the missing gloss are (at least to me) no indications for an unauthencity of this acetate.

[Prophonics 2029]

It looks like it says something in ( ) like Jimmy.

Doh not this one the other one.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Mal C]

It looks like it says something in ( ) like Jimmy.

Doh not this one the other one.

looks like my old Emmanuel Lasky acetate that...