Can Todays Northern Scene Ever Be Attractive

[Guest]

Seen as i got deleted and blocked from the last debate about youths cos im u'16 I'm commenting off a friends. Thats the reason why am only commenting on this one subject if your wundering.

All iv got to say really is you were are age once, you got into it, you enjoyed it.

So why is everyone so against young ones coming in?

because to be fair we are all the same as you was, just abit more 'hightec'ed' yes i understand it was a big popular thing back then where anyone + everyone was welcome.

so why carn't things be the same now?

i also understand that this isnt all about acceptence, but whats the point in attracting youths on to the soul scene + then going against them + not wanting them in the same venues as you.

Should think things over if i was you because we all know we aint going to be around forever + neither is the soul scene unless you start thinking right.

+ when you was younger you didnt just stay in your local area to DJ so why should we.

we don't push our way onto the DJ line up.

we get asked.

iv been DJing for 6 years now + it still annoys me how people can be so hypercriticle when you were exactly the same at our age.

You mite think of me as a boasting young'un but am not, am putting my point across just like you all have done.

i may only be fourteen but to be honest i talk more sense then most people on here.

Don't mean to affend anyone if i have.

Little miss soul.

[Winnie :-)]

Off with my head?

It is not me that is protecting my originals.

Get 'em young & keep 'em interested - here is my daughter at the age of two double decking with me at home

==============

Don't think we're poles apart on our views, just don't express mine as often as I used to as we've been over the subject a few times. Same people against and same people for change. The fact we've done the subject before is in no way a comment to say let's not discuss it again, just me being lazy not getting involved.

[Paul Shirley]

Totally agree .... over the last few years I have seen more & more "young" faces in venues, & I remember youngsters (early 20s) coming to CIS in 2003, I love seeing them out on the floor having a great time, as I did as a "youngster" & continue to do now. Did I think as a 46yr old I would still be strutting my stuff across a dance floor ...........

Hmmmmm NO I didnt ! DID YOU ?

What really makes my blood boil is when "people" of our generation feel that this scene is theirs & that they feel they have a right to even say "no young ones welcomed here" !

Maybe the question we need to ask is .....

Are we willing to let the scene die out because "we" feel youngsters have no place in it ?

Im not ! Are you ?

I think what is also important too remember is that the scene was built up by youngsters it wasnt built up by hoards of 40 / 50 /60 year olds .... it was bulit up by 20/30 year olds, with a few older people thrown in ....

They have so much to offer you, me the scene, they are the future of this scene not US we are the present & past ..... so shouldnt we be welcomimg, enouraging, guiding, educatating them on Soul & its history "our history" so that they can have preserve it, because in my eyes if you have gained so much pleasure from something, do you not want to share & pass that pleasure on & too see it preserved, developed ?

I do ....

Last night there where about 20 / 25 youngsters at Maxins some of them came to the first CIS ...

I listened to one DJ ... GREAT young ballsie chap, who has not been caught up with "pricy records, soul snobbery & "hierarchy" he just DJ he didnt think about "risks" in putting on a record he just put it on & was happy if one person got up to dance ...... these "youngsters" where in room 2, did they stay in isolation .... NO some came out of their comfort zone .... joined the "fogeys" on the dance floor & did what I do .... enjoyed myself ....

so if you are one of those "selfish, tight, mean, narrow minded people, who are so entrenched in your belief that "you have the right to say who can or cant be into soul ...

well im so glad I dont know you & I wouldnt want to be in your company at all nor would I want "youngsters" to get to know you .... BECAUSE UNLIKE THEM ....

YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER THIS SCENE .....

GET THEM BOOKED ON ....

DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO SO THAT THEY WANT TO JOIN THIS SCENE ......

Marcelle

AGE 46 years but still feeling as passionate about Soul as I did as a 14year old ...

am afraid i see this stuff all the time now it apears on soul source very angry and opinionated but who exactly are you talking about because in all my years on this scene i have never ever seen or heard of people you decribe ??who exactly are you talking about ????? fogeys on the dance floor???? i was at maxims i did not see many 25 year olds ??? who are the mystery horible people that hate young people and want to keep the soul scene to themselves ??? not only that but where are all these teribley hard done to young people that are so hated ???? aniway dont hold back let it all out lol , am afraid i would be in my eliment as a promotor if loads of young people tuned up and i dont know any body that would act the way you describe ??

[Bazza]

i guess im not welcome then . ill keep my mouth shut next time

============

Alex,

You've got to get off your high horse. The vast majority of the soul fraternity would welcome you, there's always going to be some who want the scene to die with them, but they're in the minority and IMO going in the wrong direction. I'm sure Rachael was just suggesting other ways of getting involved. You could also send in reviews of events you've DJ'd at and include playlists. Don't be put off if anybody criticises the playlists, as you rightly say, everyone starts somewhere. Keep at it!!

Winnie :-)

Yep ,think you may have taken it the wrong way Alex,Rachael didnt mean what you thought she meant

you may have noticed a post from me earlier in the thread, stating I dont want kids in do's Etc

I have seen you out and about Alex ,and you would know me.I know you have a passion for our music

what I should have said was, I dont want none soul lovers in Do's ,the sort that come in cos the beers cheap,just to get pissed and lark about

I would always welcome you Alex,

Bazza

[Paul Shirley]

If you want to open the scene up to a new audiance get rid of the snobbery sorrounding the music. Stop worrying about how much a tune cost and how rare it is on the never before released limited edition deleted local issue acitate master tape and get the music out to the kids in what ever format they want it in. Then just maybe a new crowd will take the scene forward and keep it alive. Duffy being number one for eons says it all to me. There is a huge following out there but they just don't know it yet because we are all too worried that what we are playing isn't rare enough! PLay it because it's good keep an eye on the dance floor and promote outside of your comfort zone and they will come! A record is as old as the first time you hear it so most of the stuff we play and love will be as fresh as a daisy to the first timer and what turned us on 25 years ago will do the same to a new audiance. Classical music has been doing this for 300 hundred years. Take it to the people they'll love it!

i agree with only a small bit of what you say ' but if you change it around get rid of this and get rid of that then its not special any more is it ??,its just another every day sound that is like so mutch of the stuff thats filling the charts and like all that stuff it will be gone and forgotten the colecting of records and labels and so on is what is called the northern soul scene ring a bell ??? TAKE ALL THIS AWAY AND YOUR LEFT WITH EVERY DAY CHART MUSIC CHEAP AS CHIPPS NOT WORTH A TOSS ------- YOU REALY DO NOT HAVE A CLUE !!!!! "RIP NORTHERN SOUL MUSIC "

Edited May 6, 2008 by mepaul50

[Guest swoz]

Totally agree .... over the last few years I have seen more & more "young" faces in venues, & I remember youngsters (early 20s) coming to CIS in 2003, I love seeing them out on the floor having a great time, as I did as a "youngster" & continue to do now. Did I think as a 46yr old I would still be strutting my stuff across a dance floor ...........

Hmmmmm NO I didnt ! DID YOU ?

What really makes my blood boil is when "people" of our generation feel that this scene is theirs & that they feel they have a right to even say "no young ones welcomed here" !

Maybe the question we need to ask is .....

Are we willing to let the scene die out because "we" feel youngsters have no place in it ?

Im not ! Are you ?

I think what is also important too remember is that the scene was built up by youngsters it wasnt built up by hoards of 40 / 50 /60 year olds .... it was bulit up by 20/30 year olds, with a few older people thrown in ....

They have so much to offer you, me the scene, they are the future of this scene not US we are the present & past ..... so shouldnt we be welcomimg, enouraging, guiding, educatating them on Soul & its history "our history" so that they can have preserve it, because in my eyes if you have gained so much pleasure from something, do you not want to share & pass that pleasure on & too see it preserved, developed ?

I do ....

Last night there where about 20 / 25 youngsters at Maxins some of them came to the first CIS ...

I listened to one DJ ... GREAT young ballsie chap, who has not been caught up with "pricy records, soul snobbery & "hierarchy" he just DJ he didnt think about "risks" in putting on a record he just put it on & was happy if one person got up to dance ...... these "youngsters" where in room 2, did they stay in isolation .... NO some came out of their comfort zone .... joined the "fogeys" on the dance floor & did what I do .... enjoyed myself ....

so if you are one of those "selfish, tight, mean, narrow minded people, who are so entrenched in your belief that "you have the right to say who can or cant be into soul ...

well im so glad I dont know you & I wouldnt want to be in your company at all nor would I want "youngsters" to get to know you .... BECAUSE UNLIKE THEM ....

YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER THIS SCENE .....

GET THEM BOOKED ON ....

DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO SO THAT THEY WANT TO JOIN THIS SCENE ......

Marcelle

AGE 46 years but still feeling as passionate about Soul as I did as a 14year old ...

NICE ONE MARCELLE , WOULD LOVE TO SEE "PROMOTERS". PUT THIS STATEMENT IN TO PRACTICE ????????? SWOZ

[Guest rachel]

Yep ,think you may have taken it the wrong way Alex,Rachael didnt mean what you thought she meant

you may have noticed a post from me earlier in the thread, stating I dont want kids in do's Etc

I have seen you out and about Alex ,and you would know me.I know you have a passion for our music

what I should have said was, I dont want none soul lovers in Do's ,the sort that come in cos the beers cheap,just to get pissed and lark about

I would always welcome you Alex,

Bazza

I meant what I said - if you want to be involved, and people to take you seriously, on here then get involved (but if you do then you'd need to be prepared that people might challenge you and disagree with you, and not take it as a great personal afront!) As Winnie said reviews of events you've been to would be great. You don't get automatic acceptance anywhere in life, but it's a lot more likely if you join in with things "across the board" so to speak, rather than only having a say on one subject.

Obviously it's up to you how you use the forum but I'm not sure how suggesting you could get more involved reads as 'you're not welcome'?

Edited May 6, 2008 by rachel

[Guest Chris Waterman]

maxims in wigan for example last wk was awfull to say the least and yet people on here are saying how well atendid and how good it was they must be triping or somthing ,

Hi mepaul50

I would be grateful if you would post your thoughts on the night in the look backs thread, then I can address them and try to make the changes needed for the next night.

Regards

Chris W

[Guest rachel]

Oh and Kelly, you never did do an intro when asked to previously, could you do so now, thanks.

[Bazza]

I meant what I said - if you want to be involved, and people to take you seriously, on here then get involved. As Winnie said reviews of events you've been to would be great. You don't get automatic acceptance anywhere in life, but it's a lot more likely if you join in with things "across the board" so to speak, rather than only having a say on one subject.

Obviously it's up to you how you use the forum but I'm not sure how suggesting you could get more involved reads as 'you're not welcome'?

This is was what I was refering to Rachael, I know thats not what you meant

Bazza

[Guest Chris Waterman]

am afraid i see this stuff all the time now it apears on soul source very angry and opinionated but who exactly are you talking about because in all my years on this scene i have never ever seen or heard of people you decribe ??who exactly are you talking about ????? fogeys on the dance floor???? i was at maxims i did not see many 25 year olds ??? who are the mystery horible people that hate young people and want to keep the soul scene to themselves ??? not only that but where are all these teribley hard done to young people that are so hated ???? aniway dont hold back let it all out lol , am afraid i would be in my eliment as a promotor if loads of young people tuned up and i dont know any body that would act the way you describe ??

Hi Again

Marcelle is not hear at the moment so I will answer the high lighted point, there were 23 younger people at Maxims on Saturday this is fact as I had to sign off the discount slips in the till for when they landed from 'Shake and Fingerpop.

I am sure Marcelle will answer the rest of your questions when she gets back.

Again Regards

Chris W

[Paul Shirley]

NICE ONE MARCELLE , WOULD LOVE TO SEE "PROMOTERS". PUT THIS STATEMENT IN TO PRACTICE ????????? SWOZ

I AM A PROMOTER "WELL JUST A BIT "AND WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOUNG PEOPLE FULL STOP ,ITS EVERY PROMOTORS DREAM ON THIS SCENE I THINK ?? AM SURE PEOPLE WOULD AGREE

Edited May 6, 2008 by mepaul50

[Paul Shirley]

Hi Again

Marcelle is not hear at the moment so I will answer the high lighted point, there were 23 younger people at Maxims on Saturday this is fact as I had to sign off the discount slips in the till for when they landed from 'Shake and Fingerpop.

I am sure Marcelle will answer the rest of your questions when she gets back.

Again Regards

Chris W

MAY BE THEY ARE LOOKING OLDER THESE DAYS THEN EH? BUT THEN AGAIN I DIDANT HAVE THE LUXURY OF SEEING THE DISCOUNT SLIPS, BUT ANIWAY GOOD FOR THEM THEN MAKES A NICE CHANGE DOSENT IT ??

[Bazza]

As for the original question, I dont think our scene will ever be attractive to the younger generation

to keep our music alive ,it has to be done as follows

1, it has to be run by youngsters

2, get rid of the badge "Northern Soul". call it Classic club soul ...or summat

3,a nice air conditioned Venue

the words Northern soul,working mens club, miners welfare,, give the youngster the impression its full of old codgers doing the wedding reception dance

thats my take on it

Bazza

Just adding,not that sure about number one,debatable,maybe be seen to be run by youngsters

Edited May 6, 2008 by bazza

[Guest swoz]

I AM A PROMOTER "WELL JUST A BIT "AND WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOUNG PEOPLE FULL STOP ,ITS EVERY PROMOTORS DREAM ON THIS SCENE I THINK ?? AM SURE PEOPLE WOULD AGREE

SORRY MEPAUL

I'M ALL FOR YOUNG BLOOD BECOMING THE NEW GENERATION OF NORTHERN SOUL.

MY TARGET IS SO CALLED "PROMOTERS" OR IS THAT DICTATERS WHO'S ONLY POLICY IS ME .ME. ME.

AND HAS NO REGARD FOR FRIENDSHIP OR TRUE LOVE OF THIS SCENE , UNLESS THERE IS A BIG WEDGE AT THE END OF IT . SWOZ

[max millward]

As for the original question, I dont think our scene will ever be attractive to the younger generation

to keep our music alive ,it has to be done as follows

1, it has to be run by youngsters

2, get rid of the badge "Northern Soul". call it Classic club soul ...or summat

3,a nice air conditioned Venue

the words Northern soul,working mens club, miners welfare,, give the youngster the impression its full of old codgers doing the wedding reception dance

thats my take on it

Bazza

I TAKE YOU'RE POINTS BAZZA, VERY CONSTRUCTIVE INDEED, PLENTY OF FOOD FOR THOUGHT I FEEL SURE! AS AN OLD CODGER I'D WELCOME A YOUNGER OUTLOOK DOING WHAT WE DO BUT MORE THAN LIKELY BETTER!!

MAX..

[Guest]

As for the original question, I dont think our scene will ever be attractive to the younger generation

to keep our music alive ,it has to be done as follows

1, it has to be run by youngsters

2, get rid of the badge "Northern Soul". call it Classic club soul ...or summat

3,a nice air conditioned Venue

the words Northern soul,working mens club, miners welfare,, give the youngster the impression its full of old codgers doing the wedding reception dance

thats my take on it

Bazza

Just adding,not that sure about number one,debatable,maybe be seen to be run by youngsters

cheers Bazza - your ideas are gonna take the focus off of my posts

[Paul Shirley]

Hi mepaul50

I would be grateful if you would post your thoughts on the night in the look backs thread, then I can address them and try to make the changes needed for the next night.

Regards

Chris W

THATS FAIR COMENT BUT JUST DIDANT WANT TO INVITE LOADS OF ARGUMENTS WITH HAVING A DIFERENT POINT OF VIEW , I DIDANT THINK IT WAS WELL ATENDID AT ALL CHRIS BUT THEN AGAIN THESE DAYS WHAT IS WELL ATENDID ?? I ALSO WAS THINKING TO MY SELF WHAT HAD THEY DONE TO THE PLACE COMPARED TO WHAT IT USED TO BE LIKE IN THE 80'S , REGARDING THE ATTENDANCE OR THE VENUE THIS IS NO WAY ANY CRITISISM AGAINST THE PROMOTORS IN ANY WAY I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR ,I WAS JUST DISAPPOINTED THAT MORE PEOPLE DID NOT ATTEND THATS ALL , BUT THATS THE NORTHERN SOUL SCENE IN IT' regards paul

[Guest Baz]

Why does every one who comes on the scene under 18, have to be a DJ? its gonna be a wicked scene in years to come lots off Djs hanging round the decks with no one dancing It's like its fashionable to bring the kids along and have a pop with mam and dads records

[Paul Shirley]

SORRY MEPAUL

I'M ALL FOR YOUNG BLOOD BECOMING THE NEW GENERATION OF NORTHERN SOUL.

MY TARGET IS SO CALLED "PROMOTERS" OR IS THAT DICTATERS WHO'S ONLY POLICY IS ME .ME. ME.

AND HAS NO REGARD FOR FRIENDSHIP OR TRUE LOVE OF THIS SCENE , UNLESS THERE IS A BIG WEDGE AT THE END OF IT . SWOZ

may be right mate but in my limited experiance of promoting your lucky to see yer money back never mind a big wedg i can only speak of my own experiance it is extremly hard work not to mention stresfull but then again i do everything my self am just a little cog on this scene even though i've been around a long time , but i agree there are people around on this scene that have been milking it for years

[Guest Nik Mak]

============

Alex,

You've got to get off your high horse. The vast majority of the soul fraternity would welcome you, there's always going to be some who want the scene to die with them, but they're in the minority and IMO going in the wrong direction. I'm sure Rachael was just suggesting other ways of getting involved. You could also send in reviews of events you've DJ'd at and include playlists. Don't be put off if anybody criticises the playlists, as you rightly say, everyone starts somewhere. Keep at it!!

Winnie :-)

Just wanted to say that on Sunday at my gig 'WE GOT SOUL BABY!' The crowd we're very mixed and included a freind of mine with her 2 Daughters and their freinds (Similar ages 21/22). Then there was two brothers (freinds of mine again) with their daughters and a couple of neices and a small group of their mates! This 'trend' was pretty much the same at the last one too. We also had a large group of students who came in and loved it!

No trouble lots of smileing faces and lots of dancing. Can't see what the fuss is about. An interesting point to take on board is I don't promote just within the Soul community I approach it as if I was doing a gig aimed at the general public. Seems to work?

[Guest Impetejones]

Why does every one who comes on the scene under 18, have to be a DJ? its gonna be a wicked scene in years to come lots off Djs hanging round the decks with no one dancing It's like its fashionable to bring the kids along and have a pop with mam and dads records

Sorry but you're wrong

We dont just have a 'pop'

We choose where to go and what to do on our own accord

We don't need to be fashioned on what to do by our parents

We like the music and have similar taste as many other people so why can it hurt if we get involved on the decks?

For those of you who have been to Royston Civic you will know that 2 brilliant young DJ's are residents along side Johnny Wood.

We have to learn somewhere

Edited May 6, 2008 by Impetejones

[Guest]

Why does every one who comes on the scene under 18, have to be a DJ? its gonna be a wicked scene in years to come lots off Djs hanging round the decks with no one dancing It's like its fashionable to bring the kids along and have a pop with mam and dads records

All of my records i have collected my self and have put all of my wages into getting them and still aint got no where near what i want

[Guest Mezhouse]

Don't knock Pete, Alex and Little Miss Soul. Why not go to Royston and see them in action. Not only are they excellent djs but they're fine dancers too. The welcome you receive there is second to none. The playlists are interesting and well balanced for age (modern or oldie) and tempo moderate or 100mph.

I see these kids at a lot of the nights I go to in the Yorkshire area and as far as I'm concerned, if this is an example of the younger set coming in then I'm all for it.

Well done guys, see you at Drax!!!

Jo

,

[Guest rachel]

Just another shout for new, or only recently started posting, members to do us the expected intro here

[Mark Bicknell]

Personally I think it's time to simply get on with it, spend a little more time and energy in actually doing it rather than talking about it, be it collecting records, attending gigs, DJ'ing whatever, embrace all and everyone who want to be involved with the scene, the fundimental most important thing about this scene is the music, cheerish it, embrace it, share it but for fcuk sake don't destroy it, fact is whatever your age if you have a genuine passion for the music and can make a contribution then this should be welcomed with open arms. Oh and whoever thinks you can't be into the music if you don't attend gigs is talking total bollocks.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Mark Bicknell

[Guest]

Personally I think it's time to simply get on with it, spend a little more time and energy in actually doing it rather than talking about it, be it collecting records, attending gigs, DJ'ing whatever, embrace all and everyone who want to be involved with the scene, the fundimental most important thing about this scene is the music, cheerish it, embrace it, share it but for fcuk sake don't destroy it, fact is whatever your age if you have a genuine passion for the music and can make a contribution then this should be welcomed with open arms. Oh and whoever thinks you can't be into the music if you don't attend gigs is talking total bollocks.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

totally agree

[Paul Shirley]

i think there are some realy paranoid presumptioms made regarding the older people on this scene its a joke , yeah man when i die all this i hope will die too ! ive been on the scene years now and these young people have no right being part of it , yeah right if only i could at least see any of all these young people would be a start give me a brake , maybe i must live in the wrong place and go to the wrong clubs or somthing but i would dearly love to see young people taking an intorest as my own kids range from 18 to 29 and they say its embarasing if anything' i have seen some rubish on here but this is geting me down

Edited May 6, 2008 by mepaul50

[Guest]

i think there are some realy paranoid presumptioms made regarding the older people on this scene its a joke , yeah man when i die all this i hope will die too ! ive been on the scene years now and these young people have no right being part of it , yeah right if only i could at least see any of all these young people would be a f.. start give me a brake , maybe i must live in the wrong place and go to the wrong clubs or somthing but i would dearly love to see young people taking an intorest as my own kids range from 18 to 29 and they say its embarasing if anything' i have seen some crapp on here but its starting to get me down all this rubish

there is about 20 young ones which i can name off the top of my head round yorkshire and are ture soulies, not causeing truoble , not drinking, just there to dance and enjoy, like it should be

[Paul Shirley]

there is about 20 young ones which i can name off the top of my head round yorkshire and are ture soulies, not causeing truoble , not drinking, just there to dance and enjoy, like it should be

i cant think of any at all round where i live or any clubs i go to and thats hell of a distance i realy wish i could see some it would be realy nice . aniway kid its a real pleasure to know you enjoy the music and trust me the people on this scene will encourage you all i can say is that if people have given you a hard time up your way put the names of people on here and the club and i dont think they will be doing it again , ps: its the record dealers you want to be aware of lol joke

[soullad]

I think if you are going to engage in discussions re the future of northern soul I think you have to address the issue of media here, esp with regards to attracting new blood.

the way you answer the following questions says alot in my eyes

Supposing you were at a venue and found out that the young DJ was using an mp3 or cd's. How would it make you feel?

Supposing you were a young aspiring DJ and wanted to dj on the northern scene, what would you make of the price of the records?

Its about the music not the format. If you have a vested interest in the format you may think otherwise. It only came out on vinyl originally as that was the medium at the time........ think about it. When the funk brothers were laying down a detroit anthem it was about great musicians making great music. If you love hearing the music then let them play it to all, at full volume on any format.. Vinyl, acetate, cd, ipod, tape, 8 track, two tin cans and alength of string - it really doesn't matter.

If you think the future of the scene revolves around increasingly mothballed 45's then im afraid you are doing it no favours.

Just my opinion.

[Paul Shirley]

its a mater of opinion i disagree in fact its the worn out 45s as you say that stil make it very diferent as long as it stays very diferent there will be an intorest soon as you make it like all the chart stuff and so on it'l end up long gone and forgoton , we know it was the format of years gone by but its tradition part of what makes it special , in my opinion soon as you start changing it all it becomes somthing diferent and then you may as well start calling it whatever name takes your fancy , and the only young person i know personly on this scene who is in to it big time folows the traditions and loves it as part of the atraction ie the mods the clothes the vinyl the knowledg history the lot oh yes and he dj's and puts some good alldayers on with his farther the lad is only 20 somthing , its just my opinion also like many many other soulies northern soul music never found me i found it we didant need atracting it was an undergoround scene and yet thousands of young people back then found out about it and loved it we didant need er? the media or ways of being drawn in to it so now we need to find ways of atracting young people ? isant the music that good now or somthing

Edited May 6, 2008 by mepaul50

[Bazza]

The big question is,do we want to keep our scene alive or stop the music fading away

The scene as we know it now ,I give it ten years tops,its going to die

but to keep the music alive, I think attitudes about the media format Vinyl , CD , Mp3 , may have to change drastically ,there will always be collectors,but the next generation of DJ's wiil they have the Vinyl....I think not

Bazza

[Guest Trevski]

riginal

I think if you are going to engage in discussions re the future of northern soul I think you have to address the issue of media here, esp with regards to attracting new blood.

the way you answer the following questions says alot in my eyes

Supposing you were at a venue and found out that the young DJ was using an mp3 or cd's. How would it make you feel?

I would ask for my money back and walk out

Supposing you were a young aspiring DJ and wanted to dj on the northern scene, what would you make of the price of the records?

Records have always been expensive, in comparison to earnings. in '73 only a small few could afford the top tunes. In fact, its easier today than it was.

Its about the music not the format. If you have a vested interest in the format you may think otherwise. It only came out on vinyl originally as that was the medium at the time........ think about it. When the funk brothers were laying down a detroit anthem it was about great musicians making great music. If you love hearing the music then let them play it to all, at full volume on any format.. Vinyl, acetate, cd, ipod, tape, 8 track, two tin cans and alength of string - it really doesn't matter.

If you think the future of the scene revolves around increasingly mothballed 45's then im afraid you are doing it no favours.

It has, and always will be, a RARE SOUL SCENE. That's what its about RARE SOUL, not anybody with an MP3/CD/bootleg, soul, It takes time, knowledge, skill, dedication to build a collection worthy of Dj'ing with. Cheapen the media and before long you'll have Sammy "The soul embryo" behind the decks!

There seems to be two scenes at the moment, the "Any format-we just want the music"(Mainly an oldies-based view) and the "Keep it real-OVO" brigade.(Playing 'newer' stuff, classics and rarities) Just a thought, but what would the "Any format' gang be playing, if the OVO collectors hadn't unearthed the original in some Detroit back street, years ago, for their benifit? Thanks for all your hard work finding the vinyl lads, but we've got it on CD/MP3 now so f**k of you old t**t? 

Forget OVO and you not only forget the basis of the scene, you will end up with the same old stuff because no-one is finding anything new. Fine if you only want oldies.......

Just my opinion.

Just my opinion.

Oh, and before anyone weighs in, I've NOTHING against younger soul fans 16 and above. Younger ones no, not in my book, but I will not attend venues that let 'em in so thats no problem, let 'em get on with it, and the likes of 8/10/12year old Dj's. If people want it, fine, but it's not for me, and I'm entitled to say so, and my opinion to be respected out of common decency.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Trevski

[Paul Shirley]

Just my opinion.

Oh, and before anyone weighs in, I've NOTHING against younger soul fans 16 and above. Younger ones no, not in my book, but I will not attend venues that let 'em in so thats no problem, let 'em get on with it, and the likes of 8/10/12year old Dj's. If people want it, fine, but it's not for me, and I'm entitled to say so, and my opinion to be respected out of common decency.

well done exactly what i was thinking ways of atracting young blood , for me the music and the dancing atracted me without the help of the media , this scene has been and always was underground you found it' if you got to find ways of atracting them then its the end of the road

[Bazza]

well done exactly what i was thinking ways of atracting young blood , for me the music and the dancing atracted me without the help of the media , this scene has been and always was underground you found it' if you got to find ways of atracting them then its the end of the road

Just a mo,this statement is wrong,all though many on here belive it to be so,the scene started out as Club soul, usually uptempo black music ,with some blue eyed soul R&B Ska and Reggae, in one big mix, ( the good old days bye the way ) ,it didnt develope into "rare soul and northern" untill the early to mid 70's.it was not underground it was what was being played in the clubs in the early days

you either stuck with it or went Disco ,Funk or whatever

Bazza

[Guest Trevski]

Just a mo,this statement is wrong,all though many on here belive it to be so,the scene started out as Club soul, usually uptempo black music ,with some blue eyed soul R&B Ska and Reggae, in one big mix, ( the good old days bye the way ) ,it didnt develope into "rare soul and northern" untill the early to mid 70's.it was not underground it was what was being played in the clubs in the early days

you either stuck with it or went Disco ,Funk or whatever

Bazza

Quite correct Bazza, but we are talking about the 'rare soul and northern' scene, which was underground, after it had left the 'club soul' scene behind due to lack of new material. I know my roots, and the 'Rare Soul and Northern' scene has always been underground IMHO. It may have evolved from the club scene, but its a diferent animal. Thats why we are writing this on the 'Rare and Northern Soul Forum' not the "Used to be in the charts and HMV for 7s/6d Club Soul Forum"

Edited May 7, 2008 by Trevski

[Bazza]

Quite correct Bazza, but we are talking about the 'rare soul and northern' scene, which was underground, after it had left the 'club soul' scene behind due to lack of new material. I know my roots, and the 'Rare Soul and Northern' scene has always been underground IMHO. It may have evolved from the club scene, but its a diferent animal.

Trevski, I understand what your saying,but not sure I agree ,the scene as we knew /know it did'nt suddenly appear in 1972,

I suppose it boils down to when you first discovered the scene, mid 70's on it was more underground, late 60's early 70's it was'nt

Bazza

Edited May 7, 2008 by bazza

[Guest Trevski]

Trevski, I understand what your saying,but not sure I agree ,the scene as we knew /know it did'nt suddenly appear in 1972,

Bazza

Not saying that Bazza. it evolved from the  Clubsoul/youth club scene, which drew most of us old gits in. I was going to the 'youthy' in late '60's and buying Motown and stuff like Formations 'top of the stairs'  Willie Tee 'one way street'  when I was 12/14. by the time I could get into clubs the rarer US label stuff had started to filter in via the Wheel and, to a greater extent the Torch. By the time I was thrust thru the doors of Leed Central by the crowd in '71/2 the club soul stuff had largely disapppeared, and the 'rare and Northern' scene was emerging. It didn't suddenly appear then, but it became a scene in its own right around that time. I knew where it had come from, but didn't really asociate the rare northern tunes with the earlier club records. They were a different kettle of fish altogether, when you could'nt pop down HMV for 'em, but had to search those little boxes at venues and stand in a call box on a thursday morning with a 'soul bowl' list, knowing you were late for work!

[Bazza]

Not saying that Bazza. it evolved from the Clubsoul/youth club scene, which drew most of us old gits in. I was going to the 'youthy' in late '60's and buying Motown and stuff like Formations 'top of the stairs' Willie Tee 'one way street' when I was 12/14. by the time I could get into clubs the rarer US label stuff had started to filter in via the Wheel and, to a greater extent the Torch. By the time I was thrust thru the doors of Leed Central by the crowd in '71/2 the club soul stuff had largely disapppeared, and the 'rare and Northern' scene was emerging. It didn't suddenly appear then, but it became a scene in its own right around that time. I knew where it had come from, but didn't really asociate the rare northern tunes with the earlier club records. They were a different kettle of fish altogether, when you could'nt pop down HMV for 'em, but had to search those little boxes at venues and stand in a call box on a thursday morning with a 'soul bowl' list, knowing you were late for work!

Well I think we are both right ..

Bazza

[Guest Trevski]

Well I think we are both right ..

Bazza

Do you know.... I think we are!

[Mark Bicknell]

Trevski, I understand what your saying,but not sure I agree ,the scene as we knew /know it did'nt suddenly appear in 1972,

Bazza

No it started in Stafford mate about 1982.......lol joke by the way. The best format for me is authentic original 45's, I still adore the chase, I'm waiting on a few bits and bobs to land this week and the whole process of the brown mailer dropping on the mat, picking it up, opening the package, checking the condition of the tune and then playing it still holds a magic for me and I'm sure many others, the whole ethos and ideals of this scene are based on rare,obscure and in the main hard to find records, sure they may sound the same on other various formats but please don't exspect the very lifeblood and practices concerning the traditions of how we source our music i.e. from in the main vinyl records to change to fit in with or to be used in simple terms for a new sub scene, if this is the case then perhaps we should infact let the scene run it's natural course and life rather than create a 'highbread' of it's origins, format and basically what it's all about the records, ok so you can say that some don't go for the records it's the dancing or the social side, sorry I would like to think that people who go to venues, collect and dance to the records are into the music which yes full circle is why we are all there and got into it in the first place.

I have no objection to 'young' people getting into the music, going to gigs etc. but what we should not do is panda into trying to create an almost watered down version of the very foundations of the scene as we know it, if they wish to create something which appeals to them then fantastic but don't make the very tradition and basis of the scene to be the bad guy here, the reason why the Northern scene has lasted so long is plain and simple down to the music, it's a unique scene where in the main the original rare, obscure hard to find record is King, it has always been that way and will remain so, sure there are many levels of collecting records from the five pound cheapie through to the big ticket items, it's all about doing it the best way you can within your means and of course other formats other than records are there to entertain and to be enjoyed in terms of getting the music out there but I think it's very unfair to blame the people who choose to collect, play and enjoy the real deal authentic format of the original 45 as somehow holding new young blood back in someway, there is no short cut in getting into this music as most of us have spent a lifetime involved with it and we are still here with it, still learning, still wanting to hear that next quality unknown tune again the very lifeblood of what it's all about simply the music.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Bazza]

No it started in Stafford mate about 1982.......lol joke by the way. The best format for me is authentic original 45's, I still adore the chase, I'm waiting on a few bits and bobs to land this week and the whole process of the brown mailer dropping on the mat, picking it up, opening the package, checking the condition of the tune and then playing it still holds a magic for me and I'm sure many others, the whole ethos and ideals of this scene are based on rare,obscure and in the main hard to find records, sure they may sound the same on other various formats but please don't exspect the very lifeblood and practices concerning the traditions of how we source our music i.e. from in the main vinyl records to change to fit in with or to be used in simple terms for a new sub scene, if this is the case then perhaps we should infact let the scene run it's natural course and life rather than create a 'highbread' of it's origins, format and basically what it's all about the records, ok so you can say that some don't go for the records it's the dancing or the social side, sorry I would like to think that people who go to venues, collect and dance to the records are into the music which yes full circle is why we are all there and got into it in the first place.

I have no objection to 'young' people getting into the music, going to gigs etc. but what we should not do is panda into trying to create an almost watered down version of the very foundations of the scene as we know it, if they wish to create something which appeals to them then fantastic but don't make the very tradition and basis of the scene to be the bad guy here, the reason why the Northern scene has lasted so long is plain and simple down to the music, it's a unique scene where in the main the original rare, obscure hard to find record is King, it has always been that way and will remain so, sure there are many levels of collecting records from the five pound cheapie through to the big ticket items, it's all about doing it the best way you can within your means and of course other formats other than records are there to entertain and to be enjoyed in terms of getting the music out there but I think it's very unfair to blame the people who choose to collect, play and enjoy the real deal authentic format of the original 45 as somehow holding new young blood back in someway, there is no short cut in getting into this music as most of us have spent a lifetime involved with it and we are still here with it, still learning, still wanting to hear that next quality unknown tune again the very lifeblood of what it's all about simply the music.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Yes Mark, funny thing, I had never heard the "Temptations - Who you gonna run to" before ,but I thought to my self " this is what its all about" felt like a kid again ,gave me a shiver, could'nt beleive I didnt know it ,nice post BTW

Bazza

[Guest swoz]

TO THE YOUNG BLOOD OUT THERE, IF YOU HAVE FOUND THIS SCENE AND LOVE WHAT YOU HEAR.

THEN WELCOME ON BOARD , ENJOY THE MUSIC THAT WE LOVE AND CARRY IT ON FOR THE NEXT 39 YEARS. TO ALL OF YOU "KEEP ON KEEPING ON"... P.S dont worry about us old timmers, looks like we become like our parent's....moan . moan moan.

......SWOZ.....(FEEL WHAT YOU FEEL)

[Guest rachel]

Personally I think it's time to simply get on with it, spend a little more time and energy in actually doing it rather than talking about it

Be bloody quiet on here if we all did that

[Guest Trevski]

No it started in Stafford mate about 1982.......lol joke by the way. The best format for me is authentic original 45's, I still adore the chase, I'm waiting on a few bits and bobs to land this week and the whole process of the brown mailer dropping on the mat, picking it up, opening the package, checking the condition of the tune and then playing it still holds a magic for me and I'm sure many others, the whole ethos and ideals of this scene are based on rare,obscure and in the main hard to find records, sure they may sound the same on other various formats but please don't exspect the very lifeblood and practices concerning the traditions of how we source our music i.e. from in the main vinyl records to change to fit in with or to be used in simple terms for a new sub scene, if this is the case then perhaps we should infact let the scene run it's natural course and life rather than create a 'highbread' of it's origins, format and basically what it's all about the records, ok so you can say that some don't go for the records it's the dancing or the social side, sorry I would like to think that people who go to venues, collect and dance to the records are into the music which yes full circle is why we are all there and got into it in the first place.

I have no objection to 'young' people getting into the music, going to gigs etc. but what we should not do is panda into trying to create an almost watered down version of the very foundations of the scene as we know it, if they wish to create something which appeals to them then fantastic but don't make the very tradition and basis of the scene to be the bad guy here, the reason why the Northern scene has lasted so long is plain and simple down to the music, it's a unique scene where in the main the original rare, obscure hard to find record is King, it has always been that way and will remain so, sure there are many levels of collecting records from the five pound cheapie through to the big ticket items, it's all about doing it the best way you can within your means and of course other formats other than records are there to entertain and to be enjoyed in terms of getting the music out there but I think it's very unfair to blame the people who choose to collect, play and enjoy the real deal authentic format of the original 45 as somehow holding new young blood back in someway, there is no short cut in getting into this music as most of us have spent a lifetime involved with it and we are still here with it, still learning, still wanting to hear that next quality unknown tune again the very lifeblood of what it's all about simply the music.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Quite right big fella, nicely put. A passion for the music, sustained over a lifetime of dedication to the escence of what its all about. What you say about the OVO is how many of use feel. What irks me with the 'Any format we just want to dance' crowd is they profess to love the music, constantly tell us how passionate and dedicated they are, then proceed to stick two fingers up at the people that found the original vinyl, without which there would be no bootleg/CD/Mp3 etc for them to dance to. If someone hadn't put in the time, effort and sweat to unearth it, play it out, break it on the scene and get it popular, it would never have made it to another format, but still be laid gathering dust in some warehouse. Enjoy your music, encourage the younsters, but do it the right way, respect the traditions that created the scene and respect the OVO guys. They are sometimes seen as the anti-Christ these days, when in fact, they were, are and always will be the Saviors!(well they do 'resurect' long dead vinyl from its resting place)

Edited May 7, 2008 by Trevski

[Winnie :-)]

respect the traditions that created the scene and respect the OVO guys. They are sometimes seen as the anti-Christ these days, when in fact, they were, are and always will be the Saviors!(well they do 'resurect' long dead vinyl from its resting place)

=================

Yeah but can they turn water into wine or part the red sea

Lazarus :-)

[Guest Trevski]

=================

Yeah but can they turn water into wine or part the red sea

Lazarus :-)

Iv'e heard a rumor that Sam walked past a box full of boots and they miraculosly turned into originals! Well the seller insisted they were

Part the Red Sea? most of 'em can't even part their own hair these days!

Edited May 7, 2008 by Trevski

[Guest James Trouble]

I think that reality is that the vast majority of events on the soul scene are pretty sad affairs for anyone under the age of 30. Honestly, most folk under the age of 30 would be embarrassed to be seen at most gathering on the soul scene.

That's the truth.

Obviously there are a few exceptions, and those exceptions are pretty f'ing good, but they are the exception, not the norm.

Edited May 7, 2008 by James Trouble

[Guest]

Why does every one who comes on the scene under 18, have to be a DJ? its gonna be a wicked scene in years to come lots off Djs hanging round the decks with no one dancing It's like its fashionable to bring the kids along and have a pop with mam and dads records

Whats wrong wi' pop Baz,the scene was a better scene when thats was your only choice.Your too young to know Baz.