Doo Wop Meets Northern Soul

[Soulgrit]

I dunno, Drew, in answer to your question - I suppose that my idea of 'genuine' doo-wop would be group records that hark back in style to an earlier era of rhythm & blues rather than ones that try to anticipate soul. So "Paradise" by the Temptations, from 1962, would be genuine doo wop, whereas their next Gordy release, the excellent "Farewell My Love" from 1963, is on the cusp of what would become the classic Temptations soul group harmony style.

Likewise "Arabia" is a hangover from the 1950s, albeit with a crunching dance beat. And something like the Drapers' "Your Love Has Gone Away" pays homage to the old Drifters sound of the late 50s (cf. "There Goes My Baby", "Oh My Love", "Sometimes I Wonder") while at the same time dipping a toe into what the group would do next with "I Count The Tears" and "Save The Last Dance For Me". (the Drapers were former members of the Drifters, BTW and in case you didn't know...)

Most doo-wop collectors would tell you that doo-wop had more or less ended by the end of 1962, and that's when soul came in full time. Some doo-woppers hung in there and adapted - for instance, Vito and the Salutations, Shep and the Limelites and, of course, Lee Andrews and the Hearts all made the musical leap with ease, even though they didn't get any hit records in the 'new' format.

Some of the records and groups mentioned here are indeed 'doo-wop meets northern soul' - many others are not, including, I'd have to say, more than half of those mentioned by Posstot (sorry, mate...). Doo-wop's 'first law' is that if a record is by a solo artist and it doesn't have a group vocal accompaniment, it's not doo-wop - but that doesn't mean that every group record made before or around the turn of the 60s IS doo-wop, either.

For example, never in a million years would I consider my beloved '5' Royales to be a doo wop group - they came straight from the church, whereas most doo-wop groups did not come via gospel, and took the likes of the Ink Spots and the Mills Brothers as their inspiration instead. Doo-wop or not, though, the Royales are - IMO - the greatest soul vocal group of all time!. It's all a matter of personal taste, I suppose.

The bottom line in judging whether a record is doo-wop or not would probably be that - to meet the criteria of this thread's title, at least - a record would have to have sounded dated by early 1964.

This probably doesn't help, but I enjoyed mouthing off anyway!

Brilliant post Tony.

Willie

[Kev Connellan]

Kev, that's what I call Doo-Wop, what a tuuuuuuune.

Willie

Hi Willie, glad you liked it mate. This is one I actually rescued from my mate SteveJohnstons' rubbish bin!

[Ceejay]

Diadems - Why Dont You Belive Me [star]

OH MY GOD, THAT'S A BEAUTY!! ABOUT AS DOO-WOP AS YOU CAN GET IMO!!!!

[Ezzie Brown]

got a couple of things by the persains.all good, got the matadors also,class tune....mr blue micky denton falls in this catorgary, stop grittin your teeth longy, im not sellin it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! love doo wop and teen , as my aquaintances will testify to the quirky stuff in my record collection. just bought a record by the calveys on comma, very early /detroit motown sounding group, also rose morris and delites on puff, check um out ezzie ps hi jobbo. just seen your thing about the diadems...got that 2 ,after more checkin i also have the 5 royales on tod,and 2 others by them on the label..........ABOUT TIME I FOUND SOME FOLK WHO LIKE DOO WOP ON HERE

Edited April 28, 2008 by ezzie brown

[Ceejay]

ps hi jobbo. just seen your thing about the diadems...got that 2 ,after more checkin i also have the 5 royales on tod,and 2 others by them on the label..........ABOUT TIME I FOUND SOME FOLK WHO LIKE DOO WOP ON HERE

Hiya hun

This thread is great!!! Still trying to find the time to look all these tunes up. How did your visit to the smog go? PM me and let me know.

WHAT DOES ANYONE RECKON TO 'TELL ME WHO' BY THE ISLEY BROS. DOO-WOP OR NOT??

Edited April 28, 2008 by jobbo

[Stevie]

The Intimates - I got you where I want you - AMCAN

One of only eight records released on this label.

[Ceejay]

Thanks for the comments jobbo, try the clip below

Andy

Hi Andy

Thanks for this. Not a bad tune. Have to say though that this is one I personally wouldn't class as Doo-Wop. I sure others will disagree but nice tune nevertheless.

Edited April 28, 2008 by jobbo

[Guest]

York's a bit far for a Sunday night Di but I would love to hear Gee What A Girl played out.

Any chance of a sound clip of WYSLGM?

KTF.

Drew.

Hi again Drew, i havnt got a sound clip i'm afraid and its not in refosoul hopefully some nice person reading this might have one but when you do get to hear it YOU'LL LOVE IT Di xxxx

[Ceejay]

York's a bit far for a Sunday night Di but I would love to hear Gee What A Girl played out.

Any chance of a sound clip of WYSLGM?

KTF.

Drew.

HI DREW - TRY POST 24 (premium soul). THAT'S THE ONE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!!

[Ceejay]

YEP YOU'RE RIGHT DI. LOVELY TUNE!!!

Carol x

[premiumsoul]

The Fabulous Four - Chancellor

Andy

[Guest]

HI DREW - TRY POST 24 (premium soul). THAT'S THE ONE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!!

Drew theres a sound clip om JM's site, its well worth going for a listen and if you get desperate you can ring me and i'll play it down the phone Di xx

[Ezzie Brown]

1 or 2 more u girls will like,sorry i cant do files, not bright enough!!!!11

dean barlow........yesterdays kisses............warwick

del vikings...........bring back your heart.........abc

and laddins..............i kiss your teardrops away........on cant be bothered to look!!!!!!!!

dynamics..........moonlight on impala

beau jives..........what would i do..............shephard

hollywood flames.........drop me a line........vee jay

ALL BRILL<..............most reasonable to find..............ecept dynamics and b jives,which is shit rare.ezziel great stuff ezzie tapes can be arranged,at enormous cost

Edited April 28, 2008 by ezzie brown

[Guest]

1 or 2 more u girls will like,sorry i cant do files, not bright enough!!!!11

dean barlow........yesterdays kisses............warwick

del vikings...........bring back your heart.........abc

and laddins..............i kiss your teardrops away........on cant be bothered to look!!!!!!!!

dynamics..........moonlight on impala

beau jives..........what would i do..............shephard

hollywood flames.........drop me a line........vee jay

ALL BRILL<..............most reasonable to find..............ecept dynamics and b jives,which is shit rare.ezziel great stuff ezzie tapes can be arranged,at enormous cost

Ezzie now we are very good friends you could put them all on a tape for me luv Di x

[Codfromderby]

a couple from me

a story untold- the emotions (20century)

really need your love- marcels (colpix)

come into my palace-lee and the leopards (gordy)

sorry thats 3 !

[Ezzie Brown]

just read mr rounces article on hear... more ace info....you r 2 clever for me tony always know what we need to learn, i can never remember it all, did not know anything about doo wop, just made my own criteria up!!!!! so i will just say these are a couple more i think i can add in the same vane as listed in this thread from my pile of records that i will keep,while selling my northern stuff.

fiats......speak words of love

leingtons.........i found my baby........everest

danleers..........half a block from an angel..epic fin brill!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you just say the word....magnets.....groove

crazy........champagnes.........laurie

note the soppy titles totally out of character for me

[Guest]

Just been doin a tape for someone and came across this in my box THE ROYAL PREMIERS - WHO AM I WITHOUT YOUR LOVE - TOY if thats not super DOO WOP i dont know what is

[Ezzie Brown]

The Fabulous Four - Chancellor

Andy

THIS IS ONE OF MY ALL TIME FAVS>>>>>>>>>>>AND I AINT GOT ONE .......yet

[Drew3]

The Fabulous Four - Chancellor

Andy

Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!

This stuff is much more soulful than a lot we hear on the scene!

KTF.

Drew.

[Drew3]

a couple from me

a story untold- the emotions (20century)

really need your love- marcels (colpix)

come into my palace-lee and the leopards (gordy)

sorry thats 3 !

The Marcels. I've always liked Blue Moon (I assume its the same group) and I hate the fact that the Blue Noses (Man City) have it!

Sorry Grant!!

KTF.

Drew.

[Drew3]

HI DREW - TRY POST 24 (premium soul). THAT'S THE ONE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!!

Sorry Carol I can't find it.

I'm probably being thick but is premium soul part of this site?

KTF.

Drew.

[Guest]

Sorry Carol I can't find it.

I'm probably being thick but is premium soul part of this site?

KTF.

Drew.

its post 24 on this thread but its gee what a girl not wyslgm

[Guest]

Heres a couple of full on DOO WOP classics dont think they are really very northern but they are very DOO WOPPY and great fun

Majors - wonderful dream (strange but fun)

Maurice williams & the zodiacs - Stay ( i defy anyone to say they've never sang along to that )

Clovers - Love potion No9 (FAB)

[Ezzie Brown]

Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!

This stuff is much more soulful than a lot we hear on the scene!

KTF.

Drew.

the sad thing is ..it was played out lots a couple of years ago, by the popcorn crowd, damien, nashee, bob morris etc [ my teachers and mentors] but seemes to have been swept away on a tide of up tempo r &b, nought wrong with that ,but i love a bit of a mi up in my nights out......soulful shack at culceth is havin a go, try it...ave a look at my playlist there at the first one,different but fun,i reckon anyway...drew i note your last played track is joe perkins ,one of my favs.....just swapped a couple,atmospheric r &b at its best!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

The Fabulous Four - Chancellor

Andy

Cant listen,not a refo-soul post !!

[Ceejay]

Sorry Carol I can't find it.

I'm probably being thick but is premium soul part of this site?

KTF.

Drew.

Soz hun. Misread your post. Need new glasses I think!!!!

Thought you were after hearing Gee What A Girl!!! DOH!!!!

[Guest]

Soz hun. Misread your post. Need new glasses I think!!!!

Thought you were after hearing Gee What A Girl!!! DOH!!!!

Come on Carole get with it girlfriend tape and cd will be in post in morning luv lots Di xx

[Codfromderby]

The Marcels. I've always liked Blue Moon (I assume its the same group) and I hate the fact that the Blue Noses (Man City) have it!

Sorry Grant!!

KTF.

Drew.

the marcels are the same group, forget man city and get a copy, loads on gemm, quality tune (also on uk pye)

[Ceejay]

Come on Carole get with it girlfriend tape and cd will be in post in morning luv lots Di xx

A MAJOR 'BLONDE MOMENT' I'M AFRAID!!!

CHEERS HONEY BUNCH, MUCH APPRECIATED!!!! xxx

[Soulgrit]

. Edited May 1, 2008 by Soulgrit

[DeltaSouth]

doo wop rocks.

big fan for years...

[Geoff]

Heres a couple of full on DOO WOP classics dont think they are really very northern but they are very DOO WOPPY and great fun

Majors - wonderful dream (strange but fun)

Maurice williams & the zodiacs - Stay ( i defy anyone to say they've never sang along to that )

Clovers - Love potion No9 (FAB)

You are making me feel incredibly old listing those. Wonderful Dream was played at the Royal Tottenham in 1963, a big Mod favourite. I was at school when Stay come out, I think it pushed Elvis Presley's Are You Lonesome Tonight off the top of the USA charts (1960 I think, at work, haven't got my reference books handy); and also at school when Love Potion Number 9 came out. Think it was on United Artists, produced by Leiber and Stoller, but don't hold me to that. First time I'd heard of the Clovers.

Love these records from the time when soul was just defining itself.

[Guest posstot]

OOh OOh some more soulful doo wop;

j.j.jackson That look in your eye storm

Marcels my love for you colpix

Crests tears will fall Selma

Clovers Idaho Poplar

Corsairs time waits Tuff

Royal Jokers Nickel,3 dimes and five quarters Keldon

Lovelace Watkins I won't believe it Groove

some nice stuff mentioned here.....any more sound files anyone...(sorry i can't, can't work this thing out that i'm on)

[Guest posstot]

Some of the records and groups mentioned here are indeed 'doo-wop meets northern soul' - many others are not, including, I'd have to say, more than half of those mentioned by Posstot (sorry, mate...). Doo-wop's 'first law' is that if a record is by a solo artist and it doesn't have a group vocal accompaniment, it's not doo-wop - but that doesn't mean that every group record made before or around the turn of the 60s IS doo-wop, either.

SORRY MATE!! thanks for picking me out of all the other posts....But i think you'll find that i didn't claim that what i listed was actually doo-wop.

Secondly, Tony, i think you'll find that each track i had mentioned, does have a Doo-wop "influence" in vocal, and or feel to the track, but moreso soulful. Which is what i presumed this post was all about. doo wop 'meets' northern soul. Tony you are probably more Qualified than me to comment , and are completely entitled to your opinion. Yet i find your opinion about my listings off centrer, both personally and musically.

Sorry, Tony if i seem a little short, but i didn't ask for you to use me as support for your (wrong in my opinion) opinion.

oh and Freddy Scott being a solo artist, means the " heavily" influenced doo wop backing vocal doesn't make this a doo-wop influenced track....DO ME A FAVOUR.

Sorry to all on here for being a little vexxed, yet i think i am entitled to a valid post related to its title without being corrected, wrongly.

I am just enthusiastic about soul music/rnb from the late 50's through to the late sixties. And to my humble ear , everything i listed, except those pointed out do have a doo wop "feel" to them.

So Ner!!!

ooh and i've listed some more tracks too. as i thought you might like them.

Edited May 1, 2008 by posstot

[Guest]

got a couple of things by the persains.all good, got the matadors also,class tune....mr blue micky denton falls in this catorgary, stop grittin your teeth longy, im not sellin it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! love doo wop and teen , as my aquaintances will testify to the quirky stuff in my record collection. just bought a record by the calveys on comma, very early /detroit motown sounding group, also rose morris and delites on puff, check um out ezzie ps hi jobbo. just seen your thing about the diadems...got that 2 ,after more checkin i also have the 5 royales on tod,and 2 others by them on the label..........ABOUT TIME I FOUND SOME FOLK WHO LIKE DOO WOP ON HERE

I will get one but there's no need to rub it in, see ya at Bidds next week mate

[Ceejay]

I dunno, Drew, in answer to your question - I suppose that my idea of 'genuine' doo-wop would be group records that hark back in style to an earlier era of rhythm & blues rather than ones that try to anticipate soul. So "Paradise" by the Temptations, from 1962, would be genuine doo wop, whereas their next Gordy release, the excellent "Farewell My Love" from 1963, is on the cusp of what would become the classic Temptations soul group harmony style.

Likewise "Arabia" is a hangover from the 1950s, albeit with a crunching dance beat. And something like the Drapers' "Your Love Has Gone Away" pays homage to the old Drifters sound of the late 50s (cf. "There Goes My Baby", "Oh My Love", "Sometimes I Wonder") while at the same time dipping a toe into what the group would do next with "I Count The Tears" and "Save The Last Dance For Me". (the Drapers were former members of the Drifters, BTW and in case you didn't know...)

Most doo-wop collectors would tell you that doo-wop had more or less ended by the end of 1962, and that's when soul came in full time. Some doo-woppers hung in there and adapted - for instance, Vito and the Salutations, Shep and the Limelites and, of course, Lee Andrews and the Hearts all made the musical leap with ease, even though they didn't get any hit records in the 'new' format.

Some of the records and groups mentioned here are indeed 'doo-wop meets northern soul' - many others are not, including, I'd have to say, more than half of those mentioned by Posstot (sorry, mate...). Doo-wop's 'first law' is that if a record is by a solo artist and it doesn't have a group vocal accompaniment, it's not doo-wop - but that doesn't mean that every group record made before or around the turn of the 60s IS doo-wop, either.

For example, never in a million years would I consider my beloved '5' Royales to be a doo wop group - they came straight from the church, whereas most doo-wop groups did not come via gospel, and took the likes of the Ink Spots and the Mills Brothers as their inspiration instead. Doo-wop or not, though, the Royales are - IMO - the greatest soul vocal group of all time!. It's all a matter of personal taste, I suppose.

The bottom line in judging whether a record is doo-wop or not would probably be that - to meet the criteria of this thread's title, at least - a record would have to have sounded dated by early 1964.

This probably doesn't help, but I enjoyed mouthing off anyway!

Have to agree with a lots of things you've said here. Not claiming to be an expert or anything but I've always thought of doo-wop as a fifties thing. Agree that the 5 Royales are not a doo-wop group either.

Having spent the last 3/4 days looking through a lot of tunes mentioned on this thread, there are some that are so obviously doo-wap and there are many that I wouldn't like to put my money on either way. There's a really fine line with quite a lot of them!!

My favourite DOO-WOP TUNES mentioned:-

Paradise - Temptations (thanks to you Tony)

A Little Too Long - Wanderers

Why Don't You Believe Me - Diadems

You'd Be Crying Too - Matadors

There were also many that I wouldn't consider to be doo-wop although they were obviously doo-wop influenced, two of which, Donald Jenkins and The Fabulous Four are crackin' tunes.

A few, which as soon as I heard, I thought it quite strange that they had been mentioned on this thread. I actually wrote 'NO WAY' next to them. Hey It's Love - Commands, Under The Moon - Rufus Wonder and Everything Is Fine - Skyliners.

TO END WITH, THANKS TO DREW FOR STARTING THIS THREAD TO BEGIN WITH. IT HAS BEEN REALLY INTERESTING AND I'VE LOVED LISTENING TO MANY OF THE TUNES MENTIONED ON HERE, SO THANKS TO EVERYONE INVOLVED. I'VE HEARD SO MANY TUNES I'VE NOT HEARD BEFORE!!! THAT'S THE GREAT THING ABOUT THIS SCENE, IT'S ALWAYS SO REFRESHING!! NONE OF US WILL EVER HEAR ALL THERE IS TO HEAR!!!! (hope that makes sense, lol)

[Drew3]

Have to agree with a lots of things you've said here. Not claiming to be an expert or anything but I've always thought of doo-wop as a fifties thing. Agree that the 5 Royales are not a doo-wop group either.

Having spent the last 3/4 days looking through a lot of tunes mentioned on this thread, there are some that are so obviously doo-wap and there are many that I wouldn't like to put my money on either way. There's a really fine line with quite a lot of them!!

My favourite DOO-WOP TUNES mentioned:-

Paradise - Temptations (thanks to you Tony)

A Little Too Long - Wanderers

Why Don't You Believe Me - Diadems

You'd Be Crying Too - Matadors

There were also many that I wouldn't consider to be doo-wop although they were obviously doo-wop influenced, two of which, Donald Jenkins and The Fabulous Four are crackin' tunes.

A few, which as soon as I heard, I thought it quite strange that they had been mentioned on this thread. I actually wrote 'NO WAY' next to them. Hey It's Love - Commands, Under The Moon - Rufus Wonder and Everything Is Fine - Skyliners.

TO END WITH, THANKS TO DREW FOR STARTING THIS THREAD TO BEGIN WITH. IT HAS BEEN REALLY INTERESTING AND I'VE LOVED LISTENING TO MANY OF THE TUNES MENTIONED ON HERE, SO THANKS TO EVERYONE INVOLVED. I'VE HEARD SO MANY TUNES I'VE NOT HEARD BEFORE!!! THAT'S THE GREAT THING ABOUT THIS SCENE, IT'S ALWAYS SO REFRESHING!! NONE OF US WILL EVER HEAR ALL THERE IS TO HEAR!!!! (hope that makes sense, lol)

Learnt loads myself Jobbo and I always love hearing new stuff. I'll have to buy the chap who leant me the disc a few pints!

Thanks to all who posted.

KTF.

Drew.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Drew3