Over Priced Records

[tim smithers]

Is it only me or are there others on here that think a lot of people selling records on this site are over pricing stuff

Dont they know there's a mini recession at the moment, and i in 5 to 10 years time you wont be able to give them away.

[Simon M]

plenty of cheaper VG and G copies on ebay

[Julianb]

Are the sellers the same people who when posting in 'Wants' always state 'sensible prices please' or cheap etc

[Bitchdj]

its a supply and demand thing isnt it the more in-demand the item the more the price rockets and its always been the same on this scene of ours...i think my prices are reasonable and im always up for a bit of haggling....but in spite of the financial climate none of us selling records on here are registered charities as far as i know ......as far as i can see its fairly simple isnt it...if you dont like the price either haggle or dont buy it.....

cookie

[paultp]

its a supply and demand thing isnt it the more in-demand the item the more the price rockets and its always been the same on this scene of ours...i think my prices are reasonable and im always up for a bit of haggling....but in spite of the financial climate none of us selling records on here are registered charities as far as i know ......as far as i can see its fairly simple isnt it...if you dont like the price either haggle or dont buy it.....

cookie

As the sign at the back of the Signals bar in Troodos, Cyprus said:

"Pay Up Or P*ss Off"

Edited April 22, 2008 by paultp

[Paul-s]

its a supply and demand thing isnt it the more in-demand the item the more the price rockets and its always been the same on this scene of ours...i think my prices are reasonable and im always up for a bit of haggling....but in spite of the financial climate none of us selling records on here are registered charities as far as i know ......as far as i can see its fairly simple isnt it...if you dont like the price either haggle or dont buy it.....

cookie

QUITE RIGHT!

[Pete S]

The question was - are a lot of people on here selling records that are overpriced. The answer is yes. Simple as that. Perhaps that's where I went wrong, selling them too cheap.

[Sheep]

its a supply and demand thing isnt it the more in-demand the item the more the price rockets and its always been the same on this scene of ours...i think my prices are reasonable and im always up for a bit of haggling....but in spite of the financial climate none of us selling records on here are registered charities as far as i know ......as far as i can see its fairly simple isnt it...if you dont like the price either haggle or dont buy it.....

cookie

This statement sums it up perfectly, whether you think its high or fair, its for you to decide, you don't have to buy.!!! not sure why this argument keeps cropping up.

SHEEP

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Is it only me or are there others on here that think a lot of people selling records on this site are over pricing stuff

There's certainly a lot of overpriced stuff being offered for sale on here.

Whether anyone who's offering overpriced stuff is actually selling any of it, is surely a whole 'nother matter entirely...

[tim smithers]

I do agree it all down to supply and demand, but you have only got to look at some of the sales lists on here to realise that most of the records that are for sale are not indemanders. And you are right my post i started asked the question do you think people on here are over pricing stuff, well spotted Pete.

[Our Kid]

Don't reckon John Manship should consider them overpriced, or are we saying the prices he gets don't relate to the actual market?

Discuss

Paul

[tim smithers]

Ive got a few dead horses I'LL be flogging if anyone's interested

[Guest James Trouble]

Morally or are we just talking market prices?

Morally, who's more guilty, buyers in wants sections with silly low bids, or sellers in sale sections with over priced discs?

In a market, more often than not, if you get filled your bid or offer is at the wrong price.

If a seller has one copy of a record, without running an auction, they try to put the price as high as they can so there is only one person in the market who wants it. A buyer who only wants one copy will try and bid low enough so only to encourage one seller. In theory.

The imperfections come when either sellers or buyers have incomplete knowledge. And this is where a moral issue arises. If buyers know that a record is worth X and that there are many other people in the market who will pay X, but they put a bid in X - £500 in the hope of catching a seller with incomplete knowledge, is he in the wrong? The same as a seller offering the same record for X + £500, who's in the wrong?

Either or neither?

[Dave Moore]

Whether anyone who's offering overpriced stuff is actually selling any of it, is surely a whole 'nother matter entirely...

[Our Kid]

Ive got a few dead horses I'LL be flogging if anyone's interested

Yeah I've heard Kentucky wasn't much kop for unearthing tunes!!

[Guest SteveJohnston]

Is it only me or are there others on here that think a lot of people selling records on this site are over pricing stuff

Dont they know there's a mini recession at the moment, and i in 5 to 10 years time you wont be able to give them away.

Take a look at my sales i'm fooking trying Tim

Steve J

[paultp]

Q. How much is a record worth?

A. Whatever someone will pay for it.

Q. What is the value of a record?

A. Depends whether you own it or not and how much you want it.

Q. What price do you sell a record for?

A. Depends how much you need to sell it and why you are selling it.

Q. How much should you pay for a record.

A. Depends how much you want to buy it and how available it is.

As a relatively amateur seller, buyer & collector of records I find it is desperately hard to accurately price a record from any point of view.

Does anyone else believe in "dealers' disease" i.e. the feeling that if you sell a record you must have priced it too low?

Cheers

Paul

[macca]

Certainly not in my case, some of them I've sold for considerably less than what I paid for them. If on top of that you get rogered backwards at the post office, then you're onto a loser, big time. I only realised when I got home, so totally my fault. I was charged E27.20 for 4 packages. 3 of them contained 1 record & one contained 3 records. Too late to check now 'cos they went via standard post. Whinge, whinge, whinge...

[tim smithers]

I now know were Ive been going wrong, normally get around 200 views in a couple of weeks advertising our do, i start a thread which i know will attract a lot of interest and blow me down , over 700 views in less than 24 hrs and with you looking at this now makes another one.

Oh getting back to the thread I'm gonna look in your sales box Steve, who knows i might even buy something.

Tim

[Guest]

I now know were Ive been going wrong, normally get around 200 views in a couple of weeks advertising our do, i start a thread which i know will attract a lot of interest and blow me down , over 700 views in less than 24 hrs and with you looking at this now makes another one.

Oh getting back to the thread I'm gonna look in your sales box Steve, who knows i might even buy something.

Tim

didnt even notice the advertising Tim - where was that then? did you delete that post?

[Russ Vickers]

Swings & roundabouts............I think I just about break even, give or take a few quid, you win some, you lose some..........but on the whole Im pretty happy with the deals I do, both way's..........

What amuses me is the misguided elusion that in years to come the records will be worth nowt............I collect for the music, so I dont really see my treaured records as having a financial value in that way, so to be honest I dont care if the arse falls out of it, it just means I can fill the gaps in my collection (for what it is)...........those that see the records as some kind of pension.........well thats another thread altogether, altho I really dont think this will be an issue, the scene is truly international & many of the records we cherish are collectable on other scenes aswell, anyone waiting for the complete crash in the market, will be waiting awhile methinks.

Russ

[Guest SteveJohnston]

Swings & roundabouts............I think I just about break even, give or take a few quid, you win some, you lose some..........but on the whole Im pretty happy with the deals I do, both way's..........

What amuses me is the misguided elusion that in years to come the records will be worth nowt............I collect for the music, so I dont really see my treaured records as having a financial value in that way, so to be honest I dont care if the arse falls out of it, it just means I can fill the gaps in my collection (for what it is)...........those that see the records as some kind of pension.........well thats another thread altogether, altho I really dont think this will be an issue, the scene is truly international & many of the records we cherish are collectable on other scenes aswell, anyone waiting for the complete crash in the market, will be waiting awhile methinks.

Russ

Russ your spot on with this post mate, all the way to the end!

Steve J

[boba]

Russ your spot on with this post mate, all the way to the end!

Steve J

I definitely think the market will crash. First of all, all you have to do is look at the doowop scene for evidence. The people who the music was relevant too are dying, their collections are being dumped on the market for the few remaining buyers, and people can get the rarest of the rare doowop 45s on ebay for 1/10th of previous values. I'm really not seeing younger people getting into collecting in the kinds of numbers that are going to replace the current generation of collectors. The high prices of 45s makes that impossible too -- you used to be able to get 45s for $1-$5, apart from the 'known' rarities, now previously cheap records are expensive. There will always be some market, but the thing that will make the values crash is the market in the future vs. the market now. I also don't understand how prices could get higher than they are now, it's already impossible for anyone to be able to afford any 45s.

[Dave Thorley]

I definitely think the market will crash. First of all, all you have to do is look at the doowop scene for evidence. The people who the music was relevant too are dying, their collections are being dumped on the market for the few remaining buyers, and people can get the rarest of the rare doowop 45s on ebay for 1/10th of previous values. I'm really not seeing younger people getting into collecting in the kinds of numbers that are going to replace the current generation of collectors. The high prices of 45s makes that impossible too -- you used to be able to get 45s for $1-$5, apart from the 'known' rarities, now previously cheap records are expensive. There will always be some market, but the thing that will make the values crash is the market in the future vs. the market now. I also don't understand how prices could get higher than they are now, it's already impossible for anyone to be able to afford any 45s.

I think Russ has a good point. The difference with the Doo Wop scene was, that it stayed in the major part a U.S. thing, most of the major buyers were over there and as they have grown old and died it's not been carried on by anyone else.

Where as the Soul scene is growing as week speak. It maybe, in the UK becoming the domain of old men, but else where it is being followed by much younger people, who have many years still in them. I recently DJ'd in Ann Arbor, Michigan, the avarage age was late 20's and that was only cuz I was there , otherwise it would have been younger. 300 hundred people getting down to rare 60's/70's/80's soul and many of them interested in collecting. Every day I sell records to guys in France, again a much younger group of people. Dj'd in Spain, Italy and Germany in the last few months, all to much younger people and again many are collectors.

You need to look and think outside the UK, maybe the scene is in the late summer of it's life here, but not so everywhere.

Lastly Doo Wop, covered a relatively short period in black music and so soon sounded dated which also may account for younger people not carrying the same interest in it. Where as soul have managed to evolve for over 30 years and still holds the interest of much younger people.

Edited April 22, 2008 by Dave Thorley

[Guest SteveJohnston]

I definitely think the market will crash. First of all, all you have to do is look at the doowop scene for evidence. The people who the music was relevant too are dying, their collections are being dumped on the market for the few remaining buyers, and people can get the rarest of the rare doowop 45s on ebay for 1/10th of previous values. I'm really not seeing younger people getting into collecting in the kinds of numbers that are going to replace the current generation of collectors. The high prices of 45s makes that impossible too -- you used to be able to get 45s for $1-$5, apart from the 'known' rarities, now previously cheap records are expensive. There will always be some market, but the thing that will make the values crash is the market in the future vs. the market now. I also don't understand how prices could get higher than they are now, it's already impossible for anyone to be able to afford any 45s.

boba as Russ "I collect for the music, so I dont really see my treaured records as having a financial value in that way" and my records are beeing dumped with me under ground mate

somtimes you have to sell to make ends meet but at the mo i'm seeling the ones i no longer want to keep that will help me buy a big want, but if the values crash and you can get everything for 10p there are one or two records i'm after! and in the end it will not stop me playing the ones i have in my collection,

Steve J

[Mark Bicknell]

boba as Russ "I collect for the music, so I dont really see my treaured records as having a financial value in that way" and my records are beeing dumped with me under ground mate

somtimes you have to sell to make ends meet but at the mo i'm seeling the ones i no longer want to keep that will help me buy a big want, but if the values crash and you can get everything for 10p there are one or two records i'm after! and in the end it will not stop me playing the ones i have in my collection,

Steve J

I'm with both Steve and Russ on this one, I would like to think I've alway's collected records for the music content rather than a financial investment, I'm having a ball at the moment, buying, selling, swapping, trading a few tunes, it's a little bit of a wrench sometimes if you have an emotional attatchment to some records to let them go but if you can replace sales with a few want's or new records then so it goes, it's fantastic if you can get a good financial return on some records but this is just a means to an end which only goes straight back into records whatever the price. I do think on some records it's a buyers market rather than in favour of the seller unless it's the big ticket elusive 45's which seem to sell themselves.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest]

Is it only me or are there others on here that think a lot of people selling records on this site are over pricing stuff

Dont they know there's a mini recession at the moment, and i in 5 to 10 years time you wont be able to give them away.

i think if you do a wee bit of digging around some research you get know the average price of a record i think were all guilty of spending too much for certain records but if you want it bad enough then your heart always rules your head , price seems to be dictated by the bigger dj playing it the bigger price dealers put on it, do agree that prices are a bit steep and out of some peoples range including myself i suppose its a case of searching till you find the record at a price you think is right

[boba]

I think Russ has a good point. The difference with the Doo Wop scene was, that it stayed in the major part a U.S. thing, most of the major buyers were over there and as they have grown old and died it's not been carried on by anyone else.

Where as the Soul scene is growing as week speak. It maybe, in the UK becoming the domain of old men, but else where it is being followed by much younger people, who have many years still in them. I recently DJ'd in Ann Arbor, Michigan, the avarage age was late 20's and that was only cuz I was there , otherwise it would have been younger. 300 hundred people getting down to rare 60's/70's/80's soul and many of them interested in collecting. Every day I sell records to guys in France, again a much younger group of people. Dj'd in Spain, Italy and Germany in the last few months, all to much younger people and again many are collectors.

You need to look and think outside the UK, maybe the scene is in the late summer of it's life here, but not so everywhere.

Lastly Doo Wop, covered a relatively short period in black music and so soon sounded dated which also may account for younger people not carrying the same interest in it. Where as soul have managed to evolve for over 30 years and still holds the interest of much younger people.

Dave, I'm 29 years old, I started collecting when I was about 16, the only way I have the collection I do is that I'm a pretty aggressive collector. Most people my age have never even had a turntable and don't know how to use one. The newer generation of kids will not grow up even using CD players. I hear stories about mythical soul parties but I really don't see a 'scene' in the US at all. I know maybe 4-5 younger (under 50) soul record collectors in Chicago. There is a monthly party at some club in Chicago where hipsters come out and dance to soul music, but none of those people are collectors. That hardly constitutes the kind of market equivalent to what there is today with all the older collectors and the UK northern scene -- even if in other foreign cities there are many more people, it won't be on the same scale, meaning that the large number of people who have records now to sell won't find an equivalent market.

Second of all, I agree with your point about doowop records sounding 'foreign' to older people, which is one of the reasons the soul market will die out. Most of the younger people you are talking to are now more into late 70s and even 80s sounds, the 60s sounds sound more foreign to them. Older music is more distant and always less relevant to older people. People like me got into soul music via hiphop and sampling, which doesn't even exist in the same way anymore.

Also, no one can explain to me how a younger person can even get into the music now that it's so expensive. There needs to be a supply of $5-$10 records so people can build up a collection before they start spending $500 on a record.

I'm actually agreeing with all the people saying to collect because they like the music and not as an investment because I think it will crash, by the way. I personally like finding unknown, not valuable records, as I can wait until the market crashes to buy four figure records. Maybe the market will crash after the people here have sold their collections and retired, but I don't see how it's possible for it to not crash. Even if some younger people somewhere are getting into the music, it's clearly not at a level that can replace the existing fans.

[Guest Roddy]

Everything's over priced unless you can afford it, records,scooters,bespoke clothes etc.We all like bargins, if you want something you'll pay for it, if you dont you wont.

Anyone who buys records as investment is a fool they are only 7/12 inches of plastic.

I love my records but not one holds any financial value to me after they are bought, the money spent is money gone never to be recovered.

I buy them 'cause i love them and I only buy what i can afford. If i had m ore money I would buy more !

So lets be realistic anyone selling a record wants as much as mthey can get and anyone buying wants to pay as little as they can.

Its basic economics ; the allocation of scarce resources to face a multitude of wants.

regards

Roddy

[Guest SteveC]

The price a seller sells a disc for is largely affected or influenced by other sellers selling the same disc.

Example - I had a Syng Mc Gowan - Thats what I want - Hope for sale at Rugby for what I thought was an over vthe top price in comparison to the £30 I paid for it many moons ago. Several well known faces (one of which owns awake 502 ) stated it was too expensive and after much deliberation/investigation I had it repriced at 350 MORE THAN IT WAS AT RUGBY two weeks later at Burnley where a couple of punters atated it was £50 less than the current going rate - MAD.

Now Tim - how much do you think I should sell it for in order to achieve a happy medium between seller and buyer under todays demand/supply ethos? BTW - still got it - lol

[Ian Dewhirst]

I'm with both Steve and Russ on this one, I would like to think I've alway's collected records for the music content rather than a financial investment, I'm having a ball at the moment, buying, selling, swapping, trading a few tunes, it's a little bit of a wrench sometimes if you have an emotional attatchment to some records to let them go but if you can replace sales with a few want's or new records then so it goes, it's fantastic if you can get a good financial return on some records but this is just a means to an end which only goes straight back into records whatever the price. I do think on some records it's a buyers market rather than in favour of the seller unless it's the big ticket elusive 45's which seem to sell themselves.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

The eternal question: if you're collecting for the music content, then what's wrong with a CD, MP3 or legitimate viinyl reissue of a tune?

You can get the same content via a number of formats at a fraction of the price.

But, we're not dealing with the real issue here are we? C.V.D. or "Compulsive Vinyl Disorder" is a modern day problem which involves an unhealthy fascination with a 7" or 12" piece of plastic and which suggests that the collector is in the same general realm as, say, an antique or fine-art collector. Only the originals will do whatever the price.

And that's the catergory of most collectors on here. I think I'd concurr with Dave Thorley's point above, that as the veteran collectors die off it could be the new emerging younger scenes from abroad which continue to fuel the market.

My worry would be will the vinyl 45 go the same way as the shellac 78? Namely an outdated format which is patently ridiculous in an age where you can immediately access 50,000 tracks from the player in your shirt pocket!

Oh for a crystal ball LOL.....

Ian D

[Mark Bicknell]

The eternal question: if you're collecting for the music content, then what's wrong with a CD, MP3 or legitimate viinyl reissue of a tune?

You can get the same content via a number of formats at a fraction of the price.

But, we're not dealing with the real issue here are we? C.V.D. or "Compulsive Vinyl Disorder" is a modern day problem which involves an unhealthy fascination with a 7" or 12" piece of plastic and which suggests that the collector is in the same general realm as, say, an antique or fine-art collector. Only the originals will do whatever the price.

And that's the catergory of most collectors on here. I think I'd concurr with Dave Thorley's point above, that as the veteran collectors die off it could be the new emerging younger scenes from abroad which continue to fuel the market.

My worry would be will the vinyl 45 go the same way as the shellac 78? Namely an outdated format which is patently ridiculous in an age where you can immediately access 50,000 tracks from the player in your shirt pocket!

Oh for a crystal ball LOL.....

Ian D

Ian, totally agree about format etc. but the original question raised here by Tim was are records overpriced? we all know the fundemental backbone and lifeblood of the scene is and has alway's been based on and around obsure, often rare hard to find records, my comment was based on myself not looking at records in terms of value or worth more the fact I collect and buy records for the whole ethos and pleasure rare or not so rare records give me i.e. original 45 USA format floats my boat from the collecting viewpoint but yes music can be enjoyed via other formats.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian, totally agree about format etc. but the original question raised here by Tim was are records overpriced? we all know the fundemental backbone and lifeblood of the scene is and has alway's been based on and around obsure, often rare hard to find records, my comment was based on myself not looking at records in terms of value or worth more the fact I collect and buy records for the whole ethos and pleasure rare or not so rare records give me i.e. original 45 USA format floats my boat from the collecting viewpoint but yes music can be enjoyed via other formats.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Point taken Mark.

But it's so much better when it's on a Parkway white promo isn't it LOL.......?

Ian D

[Mark Bicknell]

Point taken Mark.

But it's so much better when it's on a Parkway white promo isn't it LOL.......?

Ian D

And that's exactly what my copy of Jerry Jackson - 'It's Rough Out There' is on lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Dave Thorley]

Dave, I'm 29 years old, I started collecting when I was about 16, the only way I have the collection I do is that I'm a pretty aggressive collector. Most people my age have never even had a turntable and don't know how to use one. The newer generation of kids will not grow up even using CD players. I hear stories about mythical soul parties but I really don't see a 'scene' in the US at all. I know maybe 4-5 younger (under 50) soul record collectors in Chicago. There is a monthly party at some club in Chicago where hipsters come out and dance to soul music, but none of those people are collectors. That hardly constitutes the kind of market equivalent to what there is today with all the older collectors and the UK northern scene -- even if in other foreign cities there are many more people, it won't be on the same scale, meaning that the large number of people who have records now to sell won't find an equivalent market.

Second of all, I agree with your point about doowop records sounding 'foreign' to older people, which is one of the reasons the soul market will die out. Most of the younger people you are talking to are now more into late 70s and even 80s sounds, the 60s sounds sound more foreign to them. Older music is more distant and always less relevant to older people. People like me got into soul music via hiphop and sampling, which doesn't even exist in the same way anymore.

Also, no one can explain to me how a younger person can even get into the music now that it's so expensive. There needs to be a supply of $5-$10 records so people can build up a collection before they start spending $500 on a record.

I'm actually agreeing with all the people saying to collect because they like the music and not as an investment because I think it will crash, by the way. I personally like finding unknown, not valuable records, as I can wait until the market crashes to buy four figure records. Maybe the market will crash after the people here have sold their collections and retired, but I don't see how it's possible for it to not crash. Even if some younger people somewhere are getting into the music, it's clearly not at a level that can replace the existing fans.

Understand what your saying, but the gig in Ann Arbor wasn't 'mythical', I was there. Also next week I'll be in Germany for the Bamberg weekender, they get over 800 in and mainly from Germany, Hamburg at the end of the year, will get even more in and most from Germany. The gig in Spain had over 300 in who came mainly from the city it was held in.

Yes many records have high prices, but much of the market has already reduced by up to a third over the last year, just watch ebay. It's only the truely rare records that still command high prices or those that are currently hot dance floor tunes.

The sixties stuff in some cases is falling out of favour, I would agree, but then current prices on these reflect that.

As for 70's and 80's, which are more the hot ticket in terms of sales for me, these sell all over the world and the demand for these is on the increase. But I have never made any great distinction between 60's-80's, it's all rare soul and I love it all and so do my customers.

You say kids don't use decks, my son who is fairly representitive (17 years old) of young kids in the UK, loves rap, but also is interested in the soul music used in samples. He and all his mates love wax and turntables, they have all the other stuff as well, but haven't given up on records or spinning. In fact in the UK record sales, that's wax has grown for 2nd year in a row.

Your measurement is a U.S one. From the first time I went to a northern soul event over 30 years ago, many of the records I heard and wanted were near to a weeks wages and I would spend near to a weeks wage to get a prized tune, things haven't changed much. Where as in the States for years no one cared about soul records and so most could be bought for 50c-$1, now your living in the same world we have always inhabited.

But I don't know why I got involved in this tread, cuz I have always bought soul music I love, what ever the price, cuz it's not about the price. But I also get tunes in any formate, Wax, CD or Mp3, I'm just a sucker for soul music.

My comments come from what I see around me, sales of records and lots of traveling.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Dave Thorley

[Sunnysoul]

I definitely think the market will crash. First of all, all you have to do is look at the doowop scene for evidence. The people who the music was relevant too are dying, their collections are being dumped on the market for the few remaining buyers, and people can get the rarest of the rare doowop 45s on ebay for 1/10th of previous values. I'm really not seeing younger people getting into collecting in the kinds of numbers that are going to replace the current generation of collectors. The high prices of 45s makes that impossible too -- you used to be able to get 45s for $1-$5, apart from the 'known' rarities, now previously cheap records are expensive. There will always be some market, but the thing that will make the values crash is the market in the future vs. the market now. I also don't understand how prices could get higher than they are now, it's already impossible for anyone to be able to afford any 45s.

Bob, I think the word "crash" is an inappropriate one.

"Crash" implies that the whole soul collecting world will implode in the space of a day or two, like the infamous stock market crashes !

That will never happen.

Rather, the soul collecting market will just gradually fade away over an extended period of time, as our current generations move on into the next life ...

The northern soul scene - in its present form - will almost certainly disappear at some point but the genre of soul music and soul culture in all their various forms will live on forever to inspire future generations.

Truly great music like classical, blues & jazz music will always endure , and so will soul music, which is the greatest music of them all !

[boba]

Bob, I think the word "crash" is an inappropriate one.

"Crash" implies that the whole soul collecting world will implode in the space of a day or two, like the infamous stock market crashes !

That will never happen.

Rather, the soul collecting market will just gradually fade away over an extended period of time, as our current generations move on into the next life ...

The northern soul scene - in its present form - will almost certainly disappear at some point but the genre of soul music and soul culture in all their various forms will live on forever to inspire future generations.

Truly great music like classical, blues & jazz music will always endure , and so will soul music, which is the greatest music of them all !

I agree with your points. It might not 'crash' as in disappear in a day. The market might change in a relatively short period of time all of a sudden, though -- e.g. when collections get dumped on the market all of a sudden.

Also, I think it's good to differentiate (as I think you are doing) between the market for 45s and the music itself. What's disturbing to me, however, is that many people do know about even pre-war blues, such as Robert Johnson. But very few people now know about doowop, for example, except for a small number of hit records such as "in the still of the night" or "stay in my corner". It's hard for us to understand how music so powerful and relevant to us might not be appreciated by others. I'm sure doowop collectors felt the same way, but looked what happened to them. I even think 50s music sounds 'foreign' to me in a way that is hard to connect with. I think maybe the reason more people know about blues is that rock critics and people who like rock music enjoy it more, have a closer connection, and feel it is more relevant to what they like. I'm worried that younger people have a problem connecting with say, 60s soul music, in a similar way -- e.g. it is more foreign to them given the way that music has changed over the years. I hope that people continue to enjoy the types of music I like and that it doesn't die. And even if they do, however, that doesn't mean that there will be a sustained market for 45s. Thanks.

[Guest]

Can't blame the sellers when things like this happen......yikes.

worlds dumbest ebayers....

[tim smithers]

The price a seller sells a disc for is largely affected or influenced by other sellers selling the same disc.

Example - I had a Syng Mc Gowan - Thats what I want - Hope for sale at Rugby for what I thought was an over vthe top price in comparison to the £30 I paid for it many moons ago. Several well known faces (one of which owns awake 502 ) stated it was too expensive and after much deliberation/investigation I had it repriced at 350 MORE THAN IT WAS AT RUGBY two weeks later at Burnley where a couple of punters atated it was £50 less than the current going rate - MAD.

Now Tim - how much do you think I should sell it for in order to achieve a happy medium between seller and buyer under todays demand/supply ethos? BTW - still got it - lol

I recon a fair price would be what you paid for it, plus a pound for every year you've owned it providing it was mint of course.

[Dave Moore]

Understand what your saying, but the gig in Ann Arbor wasn't 'mythical', I was there. Also next week I'll be in Germany for the Bamberg weekender, they get over 800 in and mainly from Germany, Hamburg at the end of the year, will get even more in and most from Germany. The gig in Spain had over 300 in who came mainly from the city it was held in.

I also spend time at gigs outside UK and have to concur with Dave. The overseas gigs are rammed with youngsters, many of whom are badgering you for 'sales', play the real deal 45s and who fill the dancefloor from the opening 45 to the final one. It's a different animal to the UK 'scene'. I found the US soulsters a little different though and can see where Boba's coming from. It's all about experiences and perspectives. I know it's a generalisation and there are exceptions like The Rare Soul Millionaires, Mike U and Kym Fuller etc but in my experience, the Europeans travel - in the main the US people don't. If it's on their doorstep, they'll turn up, if not they won't. The US fans are all 'DJs' too which is a problem when trying to build a 'scene'.

I agree with the guys who don't see their collections as having any future monetary value unless it's to replace or upgrade for new stuff, and I also think that the European/International appeal of rare soul and all it's idiosynchracies (ie. OVO v Bootlegs), will take over as the UK scene withers as people get older.

I'd recommend ANY of the European gigs that have local guys promoting and DJing. Sure, there'll be the odd UK DJ djing as well and that's to be expected as the locals guys want to hear them play their rare 45s, but for me it's the local guys who aren't hindered by years of entrenched thinking that appeal most. They seem to reflect the collector/DJ ethos that appeals to a lot of us.

Unfortunately our European tour is on hold at the moment as Bev had her bag 'dipped' at a service station and yep, you guessed it the passports went. New ones applied for and 'normal service will be resumed' as soon as possible. Bamberg is looking iffy at the moment, bujt we'll see what happens.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Dave Moore

[Md Records]

We all know that there are some people who seriously over price their records, often doubling and even tripling the percieved value of a disc (and I'm NOT talking about major dealers here) and there are those that wilfully decieve the buyer, trying to pass off reissues as originals, deliberately lying about the number of copies about etc etc. Unfortunately, ripping people off seems to have some sort of kudos on the Soul scene, whereas selling vinyl competitively is seen as what, at least 3 different dealers have told me is "spoiling it for everybody"

Des Parker

Edited April 23, 2008 by SOUL.INC

[Ian J]

I take it most who give the supply and demand argument are sellers. They've got to be the only one's who can state that records are not massively overpriced. The ridiculous increase in prices over the last five is even near impossible for them to justify. Major Lance - You Don't Want Me No More £450 on a recent auction ? No, I don't want you no more. Not at that price anyway

[Steve G]

Can't blame the sellers when things like this happen......yikes.

worlds dumbest ebayers....

Can't open the link without a password....

BTW nice copy of Gypsy - think that's a pretty rare 70s record - apart from mine it's the only other copy I've ever seen on that label

Oops there I go on vinyl formats again

[Simon M]

The sixties stuff in some cases is falling out of favour, I would agree, but then current prices on these reflect that.

As for 70's and 80's, which are more the hot ticket in terms of sales for me, these sell all over the world and the demand for these is on the increase

+++++++++++++++

really is that right dave ?

[Guest malayka]

The sixties stuff in some cases is falling out of favour, I would agree, but then current prices on these reflect that.

As for 70's and 80's, which are more the hot ticket in terms of sales for me, these sell all over the world and the demand for these is on the increase

+++++++++++++++

really is that right dave ?

Which part ?

[Simon M]

Which part ?

any part ?

[Guest Netspeaky]

You paid X for it so now going to sell it for y at a loss of z, I don't think so. I guess that's the same with numerous items for sale, it's only if you're need cash right now that you sell at a loss. Look for them on ebay, you might get them at a price you like.

[Guest Nik Mak]

Just got to say that records in this scene are vastly overpriced 90% of the time but as long as people pay those prices then it will stay that way. I've paid over the top prices loads of times so Im just as guilty as everyone else but if no one paid up records would return to a more realistic level then maybe a younger generation would take notice and get into it? Look at the charts it's peppered with 60's influenced music and it's selling big time so there is a market out there that likes the sound but whilst tunes are selling for thousands of pounds you won't get the younger crowd checking it out as they want it now not when they can afford it. CD's won't do it because there arn't enough outlets to penetrate the wider market and the exclusivity (SNOB?) factor is off putting to a younger audiance. The only way the scene can continue is to make the music more inclusive and to get rid of the elitest attitude which puts a lot of ordinary people off. Make it sexy and accesable not insular and elitest and sell lots of CD's comps or MP3's in HMV & Virgin. & Stop buying £20 records for £200!

[NEV]

The question was - are a lot of people on here selling records that are overpriced. The answer is yes. Simple as that. Perhaps that's where I went wrong, selling them too cheap.

Gotta agree with you Pete

Everything i've bought off you on here ,that ive tried to sell on,i've lost out on

[Guest Kevin J]

The US fans are all 'DJs' too which is a problem when trying to build a 'scene'.

hi dave -

though i agree that this is more or less the case, you also have to wonder:

who else is going to have the records to play?

the collectors right? the phenom of a "soul dj for the sake of djing" doesnt really exist here does it? and because the "scene," if you will, is so young in this country, i doubt that anyone who is simply a "dj that plays soul music" is going to spend the money on a really rare record that no one at his local hipster club is going to know ... he could play a set of smokey robinson and likely get a better response.

people go to rare soul nights in this country to hear "rare soul." they go there to hear something that they dont know, and the amount of people turning up at these events all over the US is on a steady upswing. not everyone who appreciates hearing/learning/dancing to rare soul is going to begin collecting records. in any genre of music, collectors are a very specialized beast, and it the idea of digging through boxes of dusty records in some creepy dude's barn in the middle of idaho doesnt really appeal to everyone ... doesnt mean they dont enjoy the music.

also, i think that you will find that more and more US soul enthusiasts are starting to travel. driving from chicago to ann arbor to detroit myself the week of july 4th with about 5 people from here in seattle. should be a hoot.