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I don't think there are any really. When I was collecting British - and I was fanatical - I had everything I wanted except one (the last record mentioned here). If you've got the money you can get any UK record except for maybe something that really is known by only a handful of copies (e.g. ben E King - Can't Break The News - Atlantic demo). The first really rare one I turned up was the stock copy of Dennis D'Ell, and for a time it was only the second ever, but I've got one sitting in a box here right now and three or four have gone via ebay. Darrell Banks on London is no rarer than a Benny Spellman or a Lou Johnson London demo. I personally think the rarest UK Northern 45 is the Billy Harner instrumental on Kama Sutra.

think i remember reading somewhere that there were only 6 billy harner copies in existence!

well i can rubbish that one as i also had 6 copies mixed in a 25 count box, & not realising that they were rare i sold them in my shop, they went to local dj's of the time who bought them just to be different! i still have not managed to trace 5 of the copies, them one i found sold the other month for £1000 what a pity i didn't just throw them in the cupboard and forget about them!

max..

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For me its got to be Helena ferguson - My terms on London

When I was young I used to collect the Compass label and the Uk issues and this was regarded as one of the rarest with London saying only 67 copies were sold and very few demos were sent out!

I'm pretty sure Mick Smith had one (an issue) recently from a collection that came into the record shop i worked in.

Derek

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

The rarest UK soul-related 45 that I have ever personally owned was a London demo of the Drifters' "Suddenly There's A Valley"/"I Count The Tears". The issues of this single have "Tears" with another track that currently slips my mind (well, it is quarter to six in the morning!). "Valley" was never issued here on a single. There are also demos which couple the tracks that came out on the stock copy.

I used to have this 45, but I sold it many years ago to an obsessive and, it goes without saying, rich collector who was then only about 4 records short of having everything that ever came out on a London 45, from Darrell Banks to Pat Boone, on a demo. He'd been collecting the label for decades even then, and he'd never come across a copy of the Drifters - and, in fact, he was completely unaware of its existence.

I was offered pretty good money for it, and "Valley"'s not exactly a Drifters classic, so I let him have it to push him one step closer to reaching his goal. I've never seen another copy since, and it does not figure in any reference books.

I would imagine that there are fewer than five copies of this in existence - possibly only that one....

In respect of something more contemporary to our scene, I imagine that the 1971 UK Avco mispress of Donnie Elbert's "Ooo Baby Baby", that plays his great version of "Come See About Me", must be a hell of a lot rarer than some of what's already been cited on this thread. I've only personally ever seen or known about one copy and, regrettably for me, it wasn't mine...

(BTW for Pete, there are a few big money tunes on Oriole besides the rare Motowns. None of them have anything to do with the contents of this thread but, for a start, there's a 1957 single by the R & B group the Flairs that goes for tons, the original rockabilly version of the Shakin' Stevens hit "Hey Mae" by Rusty and Doug Kershaw, a couple of Screamin' Lord Sutch Joe Meek-produced 45s which sell more for the fact that they feature either Jeff Beck or Ritchie Blackmore on lead guitar, and - on that topic - a 45 by the "Ritchie Blackmore Orchestra" that was one of the last 45s on the label, if not THE last).

Edited by TONY ROUNCE
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The rarest UK soul-related 45 that I have ever personally owned was a London demo of the Drifters' "Suddenly There's A Valley"/"I Count The Tears". The issues of this single have "Tears" with another track that currently slips my mind (well, it is quarter to six in the morning!). "Valley" was never issued here on a single. There are also demos which couple the tracks that came out on the stock copy.

I used to have this 45, but I sold it many years ago to an obsessive and, it goes without saying, rich collector who was then only about 4 records short of having everything that ever came out on a London 45, from Darrell Banks to Pat Boone, on a demo. He'd been collecting the label for decades even then, and he'd never come across a copy of the Drifters - and, in fact, he was completely unaware of its existence.

I was offered pretty good money for it, and "Valley"'s not exactly a Drifters classic, so I let him have it to push him one step closer to reaching his goal. I've never seen another copy since, and it does not figure in any reference books.

I would imagine that there are fewer than five copies of this in existence - possibly only that one....

In respect of something more contemporary to our scene, I imagine that the 1971 UK Avco mispress of Donnie Elbert's "Ooo Baby Baby", that plays his great version of "Come See About Me", must be a hell of a lot rarer than some of what's already been cited on this thread. I've only personally ever seen or known about one copy and, regrettably for me, it wasn't mine...

(BTW for Pete, there are a few big money tunes on Oriole besides the rare Motowns. None of them have anything to do with the contents of this thread but, for a start, there's a 1957 single by the R & B group the Flairs that goes for tons, the original rockabilly version of the Shakin' Stevens hit "Hey Mae" by Rusty and Doug Kershaw, a couple of Screamin' Lord Sutch Joe Meek-produced 45s which sell more for the fact that they feature either Jeff Beck or Ritchie Blackmore on lead guitar, and - on that topic - a 45 by the "Ritchie Blackmore Orchestra" that was one of the last 45s on the label, if not THE last).

Fascinating reading tony, have noticed a steady rise in value of labels such as GRAPEVINE, DESTINY, INFERNO DISCO DEMAND tracks are these considered collectable british in there own right, after all some of these records are the best part of 30yrs old now :D

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There's Bertha Tillman "Oh my angel/Lovin' time" on Oriole 1746 - a great early soul ballad with an R&B dancer on the flip, must be pretty scarce (anyone ever seen an issue or is it demo-only?). And don't forget the mighty Hugo Montenegro doing "Sherry", even got booted on OOTP.

Nick

How could I forget Sherry, I've actually got a copy here at the moment! Always reminds me of a bizarre incident - was down the Wolves circa 1982 and the dj was playing the usual pre-match music, chart hits etc, and all of a sudden from nowhere, he played Sherry by Hugo Montenegro, and Gods truth, you could see people on the south bank dancing to it (not full blown northern dancing but having a little bop)

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For me its got to be Helena ferguson - My terms on London

When I was young I used to collect the Compass label and the Uk issues and this was regarded as one of the rarest with London saying only 67 copies were sold and very few demos were sent out!

That info is probably wrong Steve and I put that down to the fact that I've had at least 6 copies myself - last one I sold for £15 or so about 6 months back (label was a bit sh*t) but I haven't had a demo.

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think i remember reading somewhere that there were only 6 billy harner copies in existence!

well i can rubbish that one as i also had 6 copies mixed in a 25 count box, & not realising that they were rare i sold them in my shop, they went to local dj's of the time who bought them just to be different! i still have not managed to trace 5 of the copies, them one i found sold the other month for £1000 what a pity i didn't just throw them in the cupboard and forget about them!

max..

Max I know someone who had one and I think if we got together we would be able to trace this guy because 30 years ago he was working in the same sort of business as yourself - he worked as a tv repairman in a tv rental and record shop, you may well know of him. I remember asking him for records and he'd go home and come back with them - he must have had an astonishing collection.

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Fascinating reading tony, have noticed a steady rise in value of labels such as GRAPEVINE, DESTINY, INFERNO DISCO DEMAND tracks are these considered collectable british in there own right, after all some of these records are the best part of 30yrs old now :D

You're joking Harry, Grapevine has peaked and come down again and you can't give away Destiny, INferno and Disco demands!

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Really grapevine peaked? seen some right prices on them especially things like sam williams, as for the others yeh your right there mate :D

Yeah they peaked when muggins here was trying to get a set and then once I did they came down to the proper prices :thumbsup:

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The rarest UK soul-related 45 that I have ever personally owned was a London demo of the Drifters' "Suddenly There's A Valley"/"I Count The Tears". The issues of this single have "Tears" with another track that currently slips my mind (well, it is quarter to six in the morning!). "Valley" was never issued here on a single. There are also demos which couple the tracks that came out on the stock copy.

I used to have this 45, but I sold it many years ago to an obsessive and, it goes without saying, rich collector who was then only about 4 records short of having everything that ever came out on a London 45, from Darrell Banks to Pat Boone, on a demo. He'd been collecting the label for decades even then, and he'd never come across a copy of the Drifters - and, in fact, he was completely unaware of its existence.

I was offered pretty good money for it, and "Valley"'s not exactly a Drifters classic, so I let him have it to push him one step closer to reaching his goal. I've never seen another copy since, and it does not figure in any reference books.

I would imagine that there are fewer than five copies of this in existence - possibly only that one....

In respect of something more contemporary to our scene, I imagine that the 1971 UK Avco mispress of Donnie Elbert's "Ooo Baby Baby", that plays his great version of "Come See About Me", must be a hell of a lot rarer than some of what's already been cited on this thread. I've only personally ever seen or known about one copy and, regrettably for me, it wasn't mine...

(BTW for Pete, there are a few big money tunes on Oriole besides the rare Motowns. None of them have anything to do with the contents of this thread but, for a start, there's a 1957 single by the R & B group the Flairs that goes for tons, the original rockabilly version of the Shakin' Stevens hit "Hey Mae" by Rusty and Doug Kershaw, a couple of Screamin' Lord Sutch Joe Meek-produced 45s which sell more for the fact that they feature either Jeff Beck or Ritchie Blackmore on lead guitar, and - on that topic - a 45 by the "Ritchie Blackmore Orchestra" that was one of the last 45s on the label, if not THE last).

Talking about rare UK 45, we've (funkyfeet) have just sold a 1957 Jackie Lee Cochran - Ruby Lee (Rockabilly) 45 on Brunswick for 4 figures, according to record collector it's the 18th rarest piece of UK vinyl. When I spoke with JM about this 45 his words were it's like finding a Billy Woods on Sussex, now we talking rarity.

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Talking about rare UK 45, we've (funkyfeet) have just sold a 1957 Jackie Lee Cochran - Ruby Lee (Rockabilly) 45 on Brunswick for 4 figures, according to record collector it's the 18th rarest piece of UK vinyl. When I spoke with JM about this 45 his words were it's like finding a Billy Woods on Sussex, now we talking rarity.

It is indeed rare, specially as a stock copy, because most copies that turn up are single sided demos.

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

I'd hoped that my mention of the Donnie Elbert "Come See About Me" UK Avco mispress might attract the attention of someone who owns one (I only know of one person who does, and it's not me!). Have any of my record-dealing fellow Sourcers had it for sale, recently or otherwise? It doesn't seem to figure in any 'book' and I've never seen it listed for sale in the 36 years since it briefly 'escaped' on some pressings of "Ooo Baby Baby"...

Anyone out there got one? Other than my mate Brian Peters, that is?

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Vala Regan and Art Freeman always eluded me.Had theUSA ones...

=====

When I was collecting red Atlantics ,, Vala Reegan and Art Freeman I picked up rather easily,,tough ones were the Bobby Darins 'lady came from baltimore'. 584105.

The one that still eludes me is Wilson Pickett- That kind of love - 584173 - when I get this ill have the first 200 releases!!

It must be out there SOMEWHERE!!!

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=====

When I was collecting red Atlantics ,, Vala Reegan and Art Freeman I picked up rather easily,,tough ones were the Bobby Darins 'lady came from baltimore'. 584105.

The one that still eludes me is Wilson Pickett- That kind of love - 584173 - when I get this ill have the first 200 releases!!

It must be out there SOMEWHERE!!!

I've got this as a date stamped demo (15/03/68). Perhaps it didn't actually make a full release as have heard of others questioning it's existance.

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I've got this as a date stamped demo (15/03/68). Perhaps it didn't actually make a full release as have heard of others questioning it's existance.

==

used to think that myself..it'll turn up one day!

barbara lewis - remember the feeling is lovely on UK Atlantic as well

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Allways remember when JOHN DREVARS was massive they were all pink/silver mgm DEMO`S, then chris holmes showed me his ISSUE WOW

I had an issue about 3 years ago - only one I've ever seen - think I stuck it out at £75 and had about a dozen people after it

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I'd hoped that my mention of the Donnie Elbert "Come See About Me" UK Avco mispress might attract the attention of someone who owns one (I only know of one person who does, and it's not me!). Have any of my record-dealing fellow Sourcers had it for sale, recently or otherwise? It doesn't seem to figure in any 'book' and I've never seen it listed for sale in the 36 years since it briefly 'escaped' on some pressings of "Ooo Baby Baby"...

Anyone out there got one? Other than my mate Brian Peters, that is?

The only format I've got it on is the "Avco mobile discoteque" various artists album , good version . Best ,Eddie

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

=====

The one that still eludes me is Wilson Pickett- That kind of love - 584173 - when I get this ill have the first 200 releases!!

Just think - a double century of 45s, almost all with abominable audio :shades: ...

Mostly truly great records, though...

Jeanie Greene "Sure As Sin" has to be one of the rarest 'Red's. When it was new, Atlantic kept delaying the release for months on end, even though they had scheduled it and given it a catalogue number, and when it finally did come out it wasn't so much a release as an 'escapee'...

...one of the all time great 'blue eyed soul' performances IMO and BTW!

Oh, and while I might have your attention, a total sale of 67 copies of Helena Ferguson as a new release on London is possibly another of the late Mr. Godin's urban myths. As I said before about another supposedly low selling UK release ("Go Now", perhaps), these sort of figures were often concocted by Dave, bless 'im, to romanticise the 'underground' nature of Soul music. Given that it was a Top 30 Billboard Soul chart hit, and that it also grazed the bottom end of the Hot 100, I would imagine that it would have sold - at very least - a few hundred copies here, and probably more. Even Loretta Williams sold about 600 copies here on red Atlantic, and that was no kind of hit, anywhere!

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Just think - a double century of 45s, almost all with abominable audio :shades: ...

Mostly truly great records, though...

Jeanie Greene "Sure As Sin" has to be one of the rarest 'Red's. When it was new, Atlantic kept delaying the release for months on end, even though they had scheduled it and given it a catalogue number, and when it finally did come out it wasn't so much a release as an 'escapee'...

...one of the all time great 'blue eyed soul' performances IMO and BTW!

----------

sure as sin is brilliant,,,quite a revelation collecting these i can tell u...584200 - 324 alot of psychadelic releases too..only about 5 short for the whole lot! - went a bit crazy!

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Max I know someone who had one and I think if we got together we would be able to trace this guy because 30 years ago he was working in the same sort of business as yourself - he worked as a tv repairman in a tv rental and record shop, you may well know of him. I remember asking him for records and he'd go home and come back with them - he must have had an astonishing collection.

PETE, I KNOW THE GUY, HE WORKED IN YOU'RE HOME VILLAGE FOR A TV COMPANY THEN HE MOVED TO SCOTLAND, HE WAS ONE OF A DISCO DUO, I HAVE SPOKE TO THE OTHER LAD & HE SAID IT'S IN SCOTLAND WITH HIS OLD MATE!

MAX..

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PETE, I KNOW THE GUY, HE WORKED IN YOU'RE HOME VILLAGE FOR A TV COMPANY THEN HE MOVED TO SCOTLAND, HE WAS ONE OF A DISCO DUO, I HAVE SPOKE TO THE OTHER LAD & HE SAID IT'S IN SCOTLAND WITH HIS OLD MATE!

MAX..

Well done Sherlock Holmes, how did you know? The guy's name was Sid, and the bloke who ran the shop was called Graham. Graham moved Selectavision to tettenhall end of the 70's but by about 83 84 time it closed down again. I used to buy singles packs from the village shop, 10 for a quid, remember in one there was Leaving Here - Eddie Holland - Motown and A Little Togetherness - Younghearts - Canterbury!

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Just think - a double century of 45s, almost all with abominable audio :shades: ...

Mostly truly great records, though...

Jeanie Greene "Sure As Sin" has to be one of the rarest 'Red's. When it was new, Atlantic kept delaying the release for months on end, even though they had scheduled it and given it a catalogue number, and when it finally did come out it wasn't so much a release as an 'escapee'...

...one of the all time great 'blue eyed soul' performances IMO and BTW!

Oh, and while I might have your attention, a total sale of 67 copies of Helena Ferguson as a new release on London is possibly another of the late Mr. Godin's urban myths. As I said before about another supposedly low selling UK release ("Go Now", perhaps), these sort of figures were often concocted by Dave, bless 'im, to romanticise the 'underground' nature of Soul music. Given that it was a Top 30 Billboard Soul chart hit, and that it also grazed the bottom end of the Hot 100, I would imagine that it would have sold - at very least - a few hundred copies here, and probably more. Even Loretta Williams sold about 600 copies here on red Atlantic, and that was no kind of hit, anywhere!

I seem to remember someone playing the London Stock Copy of "My Terms"

way back in the 70's when I played the records at The Drum.

I still haven't seen another Stock Copy since, However, I bought this DEMO from a Mate, at The Earl Of Doncaster about 10 Years Ago.

London_HLZ-10164b_DJ.gif

Edited by 45cellar
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Well done Sherlock Holmes, how did you know? The guy's name was Sid, and the bloke who ran the shop was called Graham. Graham moved Selectavision to tettenhall end of the 70's but by about 83 84 time it closed down again. I used to buy singles packs from the village shop, 10 for a quid, remember in one there was Leaving Here - Eddie Holland - Motown and A Little Togetherness - Younghearts - Canterbury!

not hard mate! i see graham most weeks, the last i heard was that sid was going to sort out all the things he'd got two of!! god he bought two of everything!! well almost! he was a funny buyer! he would ask what was worth having each week! have 2 of all the demos and say wrap em up then! how much! and off he would go! by the way he never played em!!

max..

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Wasn`t it 444 ady, might be wrong though biggrin.gif

Yep, it was the 444 label ( designed by John Bollen from Earby). Had a few copies ( of the label, not the record) given to me by either John or Dave Godin - I can't remember who) - can I find them? can I bloody hell!!

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i remember mid early 70s all the uk collectors had or wanted the capitol disco 66 series especially alexander patton,a little loving sometimes and patrice holloway,love and desire/ecstasy,even better if they were on nice red/white demos!!!!,my old mate paul aisbett from biggleswade had nearly all the uk stuff in the mid 70s!!,cant remember many other tunes on the disco 66 series er,lou rawls,billy preston,gloria jones????? anyone got a list of these id like to see it,and how much for a.patton,p.holloway red/white demos today!!!, ph34r.gif

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i remember mid early 70s all the uk collectors had or wanted the capitol disco 66 series especially alexander patton,a little loving sometimes and patrice holloway,love and desire/ecstasy,even better if they were on nice red/white demos!!!!,my old mate paul aisbett from biggleswade had nearly all the uk stuff in the mid 70s!!,cant remember many other tunes on the disco 66 series er,lou rawls,billy preston,gloria jones????? anyone got a list of these id like to see it,and how much for a.patton,p.holloway red/white demos today!!!, ph34r.gif

I sold my Alexander Patton demo for £400 a couple of years ago. :P

Ian D biggrin.gif

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Guest WPaulVanDyk

Nice thread, i don't really know what is UK or US releases a lot of the time but i don't mind what original release it is weather it's UK or US. But what i do want the most is when you can own stuff only released here or just in America that way you get the best of both.

Things like Jimmy James records i don't know if they all got released in America but i like to collect his stuff cause he's a fav of mine so you can see why sometimes you collect UK stuff if you know not released in America

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I sold my Alexander Patton demo for £400 a couple of years ago. sad.gif

Ian D :lol:

:thumbsup: This thread is making me ill in 1981 I had about 700 records left after all my dealings my personal favourites all the best Uk stuff including Vala Reagen,Alexandra Patten,Art Freeman,Barbara Mills and every other big sound from the Wheel and my favourites from Torch ,Mecca Cats etc.They were gathering dust in a spare bedroom and I bumped into a couple of old pals who talked me into selling them.

I think I got around £200 for the lot, I didn't need the money but I thought they both well known DJ's would make bettter use of them.

Their must have been 100 demos. Still thats life

Regards Brian

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:thumbsup: This thread is making me ill in 1981 I had about 700 records left after all my dealings my personal favourites all the best Uk stuff including Vala Reagen,Alexandra Patten,Art Freeman,Barbara Mills and every other big sound from the Wheel and my favourites from Torch ,Mecca Cats etc.They were gathering dust in a spare bedroom and I bumped into a couple of old pals who talked me into selling them.

I think I got around £200 for the lot, I didn't need the money but I thought they both well known DJ's would make bettter use of them.

Their must have been 100 demos. Still thats life

Regards Brian

That's very philosophical Brian, I still awake in a cold sweat regretting selling some singles in 1981... :lol:

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That's very philosophical Brian, I still awake in a cold sweat regretting selling some singles in 1981... :lol:

Think a lot of us have gone through this, i was told by a record dealer in the early 80`s as he was buying my records, these are gonna turn up in boxes before long, still waiting!!! :thumbsup:

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Isn't that the re-issue? Small song title font and 'Recording first published 1965' in top right are the giveaways or is my memory playing me wrong?

Ive just read the sharp end of vinyl thread, according to that, the american small titled boot, was taken from this release, its a bit complicated or i`m not reading it properly, bri pinch`s contribution is intresting :thumbsup:

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Ive just read the sharp end of vinyl thread, according to that, the american small titled boot, was taken from this release, its a bit complicated or i`m not reading it properly, bri pinch`s contribution is intresting :thumbsup:

Ah, I should have read the thread first i guess. Lot of variations on that record - a minefield for the uninformed!

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Isn't that the re-issue? Small song title font and 'Recording first published 1965' in top right are the giveaways or is my memory playing me wrong?
Ive just read the sharp end of vinyl thread, according to that, the american small titled boot, was taken from this release, its a bit complicated or i`m not reading it properly, bri pinch`s contribution is intresting :lol:

That is where it can get a little confusing, these are the British releases first time around.

Here is a copy of The Newbeats - Run Baby Run, not suggesting that it's as rare, just that a lot of titles did gain release over here, albeit in very small quantity at times.

Hickory_45-1332a.gif

Hickory also had a Pink & a Coloured Variation of the Label as Mentioned by Dave Pinch.

I have a copy of The Newbeats - Bread & Butter on the coloured, and have seen many on the Pink Label.

Be nice to see the other Variations for Barbara Mills

Edited by 45cellar
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