Will The Real Simon Soussan Stand Up

[Mellorful]

The following comments are a sobering reflection of previous comments. 

If the comments stated previously are true then SS is a thief, a personable thief, but still a thief.

The artists and copyright owners were cheated out of income which they would have probably received on legitimate reissues had SS not bootlegged the records. That makes him a thief.

He borrowed records from friends without returning them to the rightful owners. That makes him a thief of the worst type, by stealing from mates.

Had you been the victim of this thief you would not be so impressed and would want the goods or full compensation restoring. Sadly many of the owners may have passed away but their beneficiaries are still entitled. 

If he has become orthodox I expect he spends a lot of time repenting his sins, but given he hasn't made good the victims losses I'm not convinced he really fulfilled his religious obligations.  

The 'Jack the lad' tales are part of the scenes history, but hope readers will empathise with the victims circumstance before giving consideration to a thief.     

[Arthur Fenn]

He had a tight relationship with Monarch and generally supplied some kind of paperwork to them for most stuff on the odd couple of occasions I went down there with him.

 

I mean he pressed Joe Hicks there on a styrene re-press even though they still had multiple copies of the original in the back which Arthur Fenn found several years later.

 

Plus he could pretty much talk anyone into anything back then it seemed.......

 

Ian D   

What a silly thing to do when there were 500 orig copies there in the same town hehe 

[SHEFFSOUL]

The following comments are a sobering reflection of previous comments. 

If the comments stated previously are true then SS is a thief, a personable thief, but still a thief.

The artists and copyright owners were cheated out of income which they would have probably received on legitimate reissues had SS not bootlegged the records. That makes him a thief.

He borrowed records from friends without returning them to the rightful owners. That makes him a thief of the worst type, by stealing from mates.

Had you been the victim of this thief you would not be so impressed and would want the goods or full compensation restoring. Sadly many of the owners may have passed away but their beneficiaries are still entitled. 

If he has become orthodox I expect he spends a lot of time repenting his sins, but given he hasn't made good the victims losses I'm not convinced he really fulfilled his religious obligations.  

The 'Jack the lad' tales are part of the scenes history, but hope readers will empathise with the victims circumstance before giving consideration to a thief.     

 

whilst your comments are very true..SS did not invent or start the bootlegging of records on the northern soul scene.And though i agree with your sentiments ( thief) he certainly was not isolated during this prolific period.In fact i would challenge anyone to name a person of note or influence on the scene who did not in some way contribute to the deception and therefore cheating those entitled to royalties or similar.This is in no way a defence of SS, i guess he was the most prolific but he couldn't have done it alone.With the gift of hindsight i find it a fascinating part of the history of northern soul....( an exception being Dave Godin)

Edited April 8, 2015 by SHEFFSOUL

[Dayo]

On topic, I think;

 

Was Baby Reconsider on Soul Sounds considered the very first Northern Soul bootleg?  Would have been around 1971 or 1972, I think.  I have a feeling it came out of Leicester.....

 

Anything before that apart from legitimate reissues on Memory Lane etc?

Edited April 8, 2015 by Dayo

[Chalky]

On topic, I think;

 

Was Baby Reconsider on Soul Sounds considered the very first Northern Soul bootleg?  Would have been around 1971 or 1972, I think.  I have a feeling it came out of Leicester...

 

Jeff King. 

[Ian Dewhirst]

What a silly thing to do when there were 500 orig copies there in the same town hehe 

 

It shows you that most records pressed by Pressing plants are just mere numbers on a never-ending production run.......

 

And was it 500 you found? That would have kept you in golf clubs for a while.....

 

Ian D 

[Labeat]

On topic, I think;

 

Was Baby Reconsider on Soul Sounds considered the very first Northern Soul bootleg?  Would have been around 1971 or 1972, I think.  I have a feeling it came out of Leicester.....

 

Anything before that apart from legitimate reissues on Memory Lane etc?

I naively bought Leon Haywood when it was first booted, that was part of the learning curve of Northern Soul....

understanding what "bootleg" meant

[Dayo]

I thought so Chalky - but was it the very first pressing?  It's certainly the first one I can recall.   

[sir cumference]

whilst your comments are very true..SS did not invent or start the bootlegging of records on the northern soul scene.And though i agree with your sentiments ( thief) he certainly was not isolated during this prolific period.In fact i would challenge anyone to name a person of note or influence on the scene who did not in some way contribute to the deception and therefore cheating those entitled to royalties or similar.This is in no way a defence of SS, i guess he was the most prolific but he couldn't have done it alone.With the gift of hindsight i find it a fascinating part of the history of northern soul

And what about the d.j`s who used to put out lists of emidiscs-all the latest sounds available(4 on one disc sometimes!)

[Chalky]

I thought so Chalky - but was it the very first pressing?  It's certainly the first one I can recall.   

 

I've been reliably informed by someone there at the time that the very first one is believed to be She Blew A Good Thing ....Poets done by Jeff King prior to his Soul Sounds in late '69 early '70 on a label called Old Soul?

Edited April 8, 2015 by chalky

[Rick Cooper]

Did anyone ever read that old list of his that talked about the 'Soulclap' club in Los Angeles with 400 Northern Soul fans who loved stompers? Needless to say it didn't exist.........

 

Ian D 

Ian

Here's that list from July 1973. As well as the "Soulclap" club how many of the titles on the list didn't exist.

 

 

 

 

Rick

[SHEFFSOUL]

Ian

Here's that list from July 1973. As well as the "Soulclap" club how many of the titles on the list didn't exist.

 

simon s 1 001.jpg

 

simon s 2 001.jpg

 

simon s 3 001.jpg

 

Rick

 

wow ..what a list!!..I wonder if the Sherry's ended up with Russ W..also wondering if many of these listed SS actually discovered? no doubt some were already big tunes..great stuff..how did SS circulate these lists?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian

Here's that list from July 1973. As well as the "Soulclap" club how many of the titles on the list didn't exist.

 

simon s 1 001.jpg

 

simon s 2 001.jpg

 

simon s 3 001.jpg

 

Rick

 

That's the sucker Rick! Well done for preserving that. Whenever his new lists appeared they certainly got talked about, You had to take everything with a pinch of salt really but then he'd hit you with a left-fielder that was real.

 

You haven't got the list with Bob Relf "Reaching For The Best" on have you? 

 

Ian D 

[Robbk]

Kev could start by telling everyone how he found 30 copies of the Casualeers (when the only copy then was one that Simon had in his collection) and yet somehow allowed Soussan to take all copies back to Simon's place so he could 'evaluate the one in the best condition' LOL.....

My favorite is where Kev got access into a warehouse that Simon had previously been banned from and Simon ended up breaking into the warehouse through the roof window whilst Kev was in there. That's a sensational story

He used to have to send his wife Sabrina around the record shops with a wants-list 'cos he was banned from so many places. He certainly knew how to piss people off LOL...

Ian D

I had one in my collection at that time (so did Norman Presley, so did John Raino, so did Bob Cattaneo, so did several other Americans that I knew).

[Ian Dewhirst]

I had one in my collection at that time (so did Norman Presley, so did John Raino, so did Bob Cattaneo, so did several other Americans that I knew).

Point taken Robb but this was unknown in the U.K. at the time as Kev found the stack and didn't know it.

A perfect example of a mid 70s Northern Soul monster by the way. Lots of copies turned up reasonably quick as Roulette was well distributed. Soussan's 30 copies would have immediately gone to DJs in the UK within weeks.

Ian D

[John Everard]

Yep, bless him the cute little rascal! He indirectly fixed my nose, got me laid and it only cost me my royalties from a million-selling record!

Oh but the memories..........

The first night in L.A. he insisted that he took me out. I was jet-lagged and just wanted to crash but naturally I didn't have much choice in the matter. So I went back to the hotel, got washed and changed into my flash Ben Sherman shirt and oxford bags and then tripped the light fantastic in L.A.

We hit a restaurant, a couple of bars, a couple of clubs and then ended up in a club called the Candy Box in Beverly Hills. I'd spent the whole evening explaining to people that oxford bags and Ben Sherman shirts were actually in fashion in the North of the UK but they just looked at me like I was from Mars. They were all wearing one-piece jump suits with gold chains and I looked like a refugee from Belsen.

That and the jet lag were really pissing me off but Simon and his then wife, Sabrina, kept insisting that it was my first night in L.A. and they were gonna get me laid. Finally, at 3.00am in the Candy Box they introduced to a surgically enhanced blonde and the first thing she said was, "Hey, what's with the trousers.......?"

I said to Simon and Sabrina, "OK that's it guys, I've gotta get some sleep" so they reluctantly left and started running me back to the hotel. On the way back they were talking in the front of the car and Simon suddenly said, "Hey, let's just pop in and see Rosy. She's an old friend of ours and I know she'd like to meet you baby boy". I tried to refuse but no cigar.......

We get to this huge house in Beverly Hills and Simon and I got out of the car and walked around the house to the back door - Sabrina had decided to stay in the car for some reason. Simon rang the bell and then said, "Wait here a moment baby boy, I left my cigarettes in the car, I'll be back in a second". And with that he disappeared......

About 2 minutes later an obviously dishevelled female in her late 20's put the light on, opened the door slightly and said "Hello.....can I help you?"

I said, "Errr, I'm actually here with Simon but he just went back to the car to get his cigarettes".

She said, "I don't know anyone called Simon".

I said, "Are you sure? He's a French Morrocan guy........."

She said, "Look buster, it's 4.00 in the morning, you got me out of bed, I don't know any Simon and I don't know you, so maybe you'd better scram before I call the cops.....".

I said, "But you're Rosy aren't you? You must know Simon and Sabrina"

And she said, "Wait a minute. You mean Michelle? Michelle and Sabrina?"

It took 10 minutes of frantic explaining on the doorstep who I was, why I was there and to establish that in L.A. Simon wasn't known as Simon. He was known as Michelle in L.A. social circles for some reason.

Rosy eventually invited me in, Simon (aka Michelle) naturally never showed back up, so Rosy and I got to know each other over a couple of coffees @ 5.00am in the morning and she very kindly agreed to put me up for the night.

Musta been a successful night 'cos I moved in the next day and stuck around for a few weeks. Rosy was single, hot for action and a divorced millionairess so everything worked out quite nicely for my first night in L.A.

The first thing she did the next day was take me to Rodeo Drive and buy me a one-piece jump suit and a gold chain............

Ian D

[John Everard]

Totally brilliant! There's gotta be a book in there Ian.

[Ady Croasdell]

I've been reliably informed by someone there at the time that the very first one is believed to be She Blew A Good Thing ....Poets done by Jeff King prior to his Soul Sounds in late '69 early '70 on a label called Old Soul?

That's right. I bought them off Jeff on Leicester market, kept one and sold two at the Harborough nighter. My first Northern deal was with a bootleg; though nobody knew what they were at the time

[Chris L]

The following comments are a sobering reflection of previous comments. If the comments stated previously are true then SS is a thief, a personable thief, but still a thief. The artists and copyright owners were cheated out of income which they would have probably received on legitimate reissues had SS not bootlegged the records. That makes him a thief. He borrowed records from friends without returning them to the rightful owners. That makes him a thief of the worst type, by stealing from mates. Had you been the victim of this thief you would not be so impressed and would want the goods or full compensation restoring. Sadly many of the owners may have passed away but their beneficiaries are still entitled. 

 

I do hope this forum will not allow the portraying of Soussan as some rascal Robin Hood type. I have friends who had records stolen, others that sent money and got nothing. For all his music success he is and remains a thief and should be remembered as such.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Chris L

[Labeat]

Apology.

I wish to make an apology to Kev Roberts, Golden101 for comments made on this thread.

     I got certain facts incorrect regarding part of the subject that were no responsibility of his.

This has now been removed and Kev has accepted my apology.

[Dayo]

That's right. I bought them off Jeff on Leicester market, kept one and sold two at the Harborough nighter. My first Northern deal was with a bootleg; though nobody knew what they were at the time

Thanks for clearing that up Ady.  A huge long shot, but I don't suppose anyone has any idea when Baby Reconsider was pressed do they? 1970?

[Rick Cooper]

That's the sucker Rick! Well done for preserving that. Whenever his new lists appeared they certainly got talked about, You had to take everything with a pinch of salt really but then he'd hit you with a left-fielder that was real.

 

You haven't got the list with Bob Relf "Reaching For The Best" on have you? 

 

Ian D 

Ian

I've got five lists from April to July 73 but not the one with the Bob Relf " Reaching for the Best" on . He must have found a lot of stuff as soon as he got to West Hollywood as the lists all came within a few months. Maybe he preferred supplying bootlegs to searching dirty warehouses as the lists stopped coming by 74.

 

Rick

[Rick Cooper]

wow ..what a list!!..I wonder if the Sherry's ended up with Russ W..also wondering if many of these listed SS actually discovered? no doubt some were already big tunes..great stuff..how did SS circulate these lists?

I can't be sure but probably Simon sent Russ records on approval as he needed to get them played  so he could hike the price of his remaining copies. He sent me Jerry Williams "If You Ask Me" even though I hadn't ordered it or he had listed it.

 Most of the titles on this list were discovered by other people as he had only left the UK a few months before. He did discover quite a few records over the next couple of years , Ian D will know which ones.

 

I sent off for his list after he put an add in a mag, not sure which one though, and he sent lists as long as you kept buying.

 

Rick

[Ady Croasdell]

Thanks for clearing that up Ady.  A huge long shot, but I don't suppose anyone has any idea when Baby Reconsider was pressed do they? 1970?

Harborough was running the year the Wheel closed so just after that. 71/72

[Petedillon]

I bought one off Jeff King at Hernies .. Early 72

[Raremusicdirect]

It's a Triffic read!

It's got page after page of B/W images of Motown / Detroit Acetates and rarest of rare Motown & US Soul 45's.

Tats bought a copy in Baltimore when we were there 11 years ago and I photocopied it... cos they only had the one copy!

Sean

 

Got a copy, maybe that one in 2006 - its doesn't seem to turn up often 

[Julianb]

I bought one off Jeff King at Hernies .. Early 72

Was I DJing with a real one that night?

[Goldsoul]

He did discover quite a few records over the next couple of years

Rick

I would think an understatement! He was by far, along with Ian Levine the chief discoverer of the scenes golden era playlist of 1974/75.

[Glynthornhill]

Got a copy, maybe that one in 2006 - its doesn't seem to turn up often 

Also have one - found three on Ebay in the last few years - sold one to Sean Hampsey if memory serves right , and one went overseas . Kept a copy as it is a mine of information with relevant prices of the publication time....

[Petedillon]

Was I DJing with a real one that night?

Haha probably Julian!!

[Mellorful]

I would think an understatement! He was by far, along with Ian Levine the chief discoverer of the scenes golden era playlist of 1974/75.

But did SS steal them from the original finders and claim them as his own because he had the contacts?

[Goldsoul]

But did SS steal them from the original finders and claim them as his own because he had the contacts?

No....of course not. I am talking about a great record finder and discoverer. If anyone as Chris L suggested had difficulty with him, I respect their take on him. But I didn't and as far as I know Ian D too.

This is is the guy that gave us The Duck/Love Runs Out, Double Cookin, I'll Always Need You, I Can't Help Lovin You, I'm Not Strong Enough, You Don't Love Me to name a few.

He didn't steal those and I can't understand where you are coming from.

A ridiculously talented fellow with character deficiencies.

[Chalky]

No....of course not. I am talking about a great record finder and discoverer. If anyone as Chris L suggested had difficulty with him, I respect their take on him. But I didn't and as far as I know Ian D too.

This is is the guy that gave us The Duck/Love Runs Out, Double Cookin, I'll Always Need You, I Can't Help Lovin You, I'm Not Strong Enough, You Don't Love Me to name a few.

He didn't steal those and I can't understand where you are coming from.

A ridiculously talented fellow with character deficiencies.

 

 

Everyone love a rogue as they say, sometimes the bad over shadows the good someone did.

[Rick Cooper]

I would think an understatement! He was by far, along with Ian Levine the chief discoverer of the scenes golden era playlist of 1974/75.

Kev

OK , "a few" was a bit vague as I had got a bit bored with Soussan and Wigan's sound by 74/75 and didn't follow his discoveries or know what they were, except "Footsee" which was one of his I believe.

I think it's fair to say that Simon only liked one type of record and would not have anything to do with seventies, mid-tempo, RnB, crossover, beat ballads or anything else, and as such should not be considered a progressive influence.

 

Here is another of his lists from 73 which includes his top wants. These are mainly Ian Levine's

discoveries which answers Seffsoul's original question as to did Simon discover the stuff he was selling in 73 ie ,no but by 75 he was supplying you and Russ with new stuff and Selecta Disc with boots.

 

 

Rick

[stokesoulboy]

The Paul Anka story is great, John Manship tells it the best, he told me a long time ago , if he doesn't , I will

[stokesoulboy]

Kev

OK , "a few" was a bit vague as I had got a bit bored with Soussan and Wigan's sound by 74/75 and didn't follow his discoveries or know what they were, except "Footsee" which was one of his I believe.

I think it's fair to say that Simon only liked one type of record and would not have anything to do with seventies, mid-tempo, RnB, crossover, beat ballads or anything else, and as such should not be considered a progressive influence.

Here is another of his lists from 73 which includes his top wants. These are mainly Ian Levine's

discoveries which answers Seffsoul's original question as to did Simon discover the stuff he was selling in 73 ie ,no but by 75 he was supplying you and Russ with new stuff and Selecta Disc with boots.

simon s wants 001.jpg

Rick

Who was playing x over and RnB in 73 ? And modern was surely new released soul played by the likes of Colin Curtis ? Just an observation

[Goldsoul]

Kev

OK , "a few" was a bit vague as I had got a bit bored with Soussan and Wigan's sound by 74/75 and didn't follow his discoveries or know what they were, except "Footsee" which was one of his I believe.

I think it's fair to say that Simon only liked one type of record and would not have anything to do with seventies, mid-tempo, RnB, crossover, beat ballads or anything else, and as such should not be considered a progressive influence.

Here is another of his lists from 73 which includes his top wants. These are mainly Ian Levine's

discoveries which answers Seffsoul's original question as to did Simon discover the stuff he was selling in 73 ie ,no but by 75 he was supplying you and Russ with new stuff and Selecta Disc with boots.

simon s wants 001.jpg

Rick

Rick- Pretty accurate. A couple of useful snippets.

I started dealing with him in June 1973. My collection was good enough to get me a gig at the Casino largely due to the exclusives I had from him. He dropped me as his golden boy in favour of Russ around April 74. By that particular time he was cash flow rich and in a roll with Selecta Disc, RW and others.

The Footsee production is crass, but it is does show the guy's creativity though. Certainly if sales are anything to go by.

And my feelings towards it probably cost my relationship with him as I wouldn't bow to his wishes by playing that and his forthcoming productions.

A colourful and intelligent character who I still feel was good for the scene.

On that note.....hope you are well.

Ps Had a great discussion with someone recently on former Swan supreme Tony Mamarella. Fascinating.

[Guest Byrney]

These stories are great, keep them coming.

But I have to ask a genuine question as he obviously pulled a lot of peoples pants down and clearly was a crook albeit a 'loveable rouge'.

How come he didn't get filled in? It's not as though the scene back then didn't have it fair share of rum uns.

[SHEFFSOUL]

Rick- Pretty accurate. A couple of useful snippets.

I started dealing with him in June 1973. My collection was good enough to get me a gig at the Casino largely due to the exclusives I had from him. He dropped me as his golden boy in favour of Russ around April 74. By that particular time he was cash flow rich and in a roll with Selecta Disc, RW and others.

The Footsee production is crass, but it is does show the guy's creativity though. Certainly if sales are anything to go by.

And my feelings towards it probably cost my relationship with him as I wouldn't bow to his wishes by playing that and his forthcoming productions.

A colourful and intelligent character who I still feel was good for the scene.

On that note.....hope you are well.

Ps Had a great discussion with someone recently on former Swan supreme Tony Mamarella. Fascinating.

 

 

hmmn..interesting..i have a tape from one of my early visits to the casino..circa May or June 1974..where KR plays 'Footsee' i might add that he also plays 'Takin it away' The Free, and Ila Vann 'You made me this way'..as Spock would say...'fascinating'

[SHEFFSOUL]

These stories are great, keep them coming.

But I have to ask a genuine question as he obviously pulled a lot of peoples pants down and clearly was a crook albeit a 'loveable rouge'.

How come he didn't get filled in? It's not as though the scene back then didn't have it fair share of rum uns.

 

a very good question...and when you think of the 'heavies' involved within the music scene its a wonder he was never 'whacked'...

[SHEFFSOUL]

Ian

I've got five lists from April to July 73 but not the one with the Bob Relf " Reaching for the Best" on . He must have found a lot of stuff as soon as he got to West Hollywood as the lists all came within a few months. Maybe he preferred supplying bootlegs to searching dirty warehouses as the lists stopped coming by 74.

 

Rick

Rick, any chance you could post the remaining lists...mine disappeared years ago..

[Ric-tic]

a very good question...and when you think of the 'heavies' involved within the music scene its a wonder he was never 'whacked'...

Thats because mr big shot was really a coward and any sign of bad vibes he scarpered, i saw it a few times but once at wigan i was very close to him and saw the fear in his face he was terrified and he got out of there quicker than the roadrunner on Acme roller skates...

[Goldsoul]

hmmn..interesting..i have a tape from one of my early visits to the casino..circa May or June 1974..where KR plays 'Footsee' i might add that he also plays 'Takin it away' The Free, and Ila Vann 'You made me this way'..as Spock would say...'fascinating'

Fascinating indeed and disputed. Send me a MP3 via email and I will be happy to review and confirm either way.

I never had Free- Taking It Away. Richard played it and he's holding it in one of the early Casino publicity shots.

[SHEFFSOUL]

Fascinating indeed and disputed. Send me a MP3 via email and I will be happy to review and confirm either way.

I never had Free- Taking It Away. Richard played it and he's holding it in one of the early Casino publicity shots.

 

if i had it on Mp3 i would gladly send..as i say it goes back to early 74..Dave Raistrick and I listened to it over & over trying to dechiper songs..if you never played Footsee at Wigan i believe you..one day i'll transfer all my live tapes..

[SHEFFSOUL]

Ian

I've got five lists from April to July 73 but not the one with the Bob Relf " Reaching for the Best" on . He must have found a lot of stuff as soon as he got to West Hollywood as the lists all came within a few months. Maybe he preferred supplying bootlegs to searching dirty warehouses as the lists stopped coming by 74.

 

Rick

its on one of the lists you posted..priced at an incredible £35..does it exist? bear any connection to the Exciters song?

[SHEFFSOUL]

Thats because mr big shot was really a coward and any sign of bad vibes he scarpered, i saw it a few times but once at wigan i was very close to him and saw the fear in his face he was terrified and he got out of there quicker than the roadrunner on Acme roller skates...

 

 

ive heard of things getting nasty when SS appeared at various clubs..Mecca/Wigan etc..by buyers who'd never received 45's..he obviously had a lot of front..

[Goldsoul]

if i had it on Mp3 i would gladly send..as i say it goes back to early 74..Dave Raistrick and I listened to it over & over trying to dechiper songs..if you never played Footsee at Wigan i believe you..one day i'll transfer all my live tapes..

I do remember playing 'Daylight Saving Time' after a warning not to play I'm Shaft- RB Hudman again!

[SHEFFSOUL]

I do remember playing 'Daylight Saving Time' after a warning not to play I'm Shaft- RB Hudman again!

 

DST..another great tune hammered at Wigan ( tho most seem to despise it now) TD Valentine, Bobby Jason, Carmel strings..great memories..

[SHEFFSOUL]

I do remember playing 'Daylight Saving Time' after a warning not to play I'm Shaft- RB Hudman again!

 

i always thought ( maybe incorrectly) that your connection with Ian Levine irritated RW..my imagination?

[Goldsoul]

i always thought ( maybe incorrectly) that your connection with Ian Levine irritated RW..my imagination?

It was during my rebellious period ha! With Soussan no longer supplying me with the good stuff plus The Javells, Gary Lewis starting to change the dynamic of Wigan, I leaned towards the Mecca and Ian in particular.

To provoke RW further I jumped all over Bobby Franklin, Snoopy Dean etc. There could be only one winner and following an ultimatum not to appear at the Queens Hall Leeds he took me off the weekly B&S ad! During a 'Kes' moment, up went the fingers and I hoofed it off to New York......with the infamous Black RCA haul. That's another story.

Edited April 11, 2015 by The Golden 101