Birth Of Modern Soul

[Harry Crosby]

Don`t know wether this has been done before, was out last night and got into a discussion about this, it would be intresting to hear your views, although i suppose the birth of modern soul was at places like blackpool mecca,cleethorpes pier, wich dj`s do you consider to have started this movement, and wich records stand out to you as modern soul anthems. i`ll start you off with OTIS CLAY-THE ONLY WAY IS UP-ECHOE, not being a great fan of this genre of music, my knowledge is limited, but would be intresting to hear your views

[Baz Atkinson]

Mecca was way ahead of its time so right up there,the casino from 79 onwards really started to play quite a few partiulary Sam and Searling,the place that imho took it a step further was Clifton Hall,still got lots from that venue!

BAZ A

[bri pinch]

THERE WAS NEVER ANY BIRTH THAT I CAN REMEMBER, BACK IN THE 60T'S THE MUSIC PLAYED WAS MODERN THEN .

BRI PINCH.

[Simon M]

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/Modern-...rom-t31736.html

The above thread is all about the Modern Soul scene's big bang

[Modernsoulsucks]

Whilst I'd say that the majority of what became known as Northern soul records were NOT played in the 60's,over here anyway, I would agree that things we were listening to in the first half of the 70's were not that old and taking the Mecca as an example were very new.

However,modern soul means different things to different people and having read the review of the modern room at Prestwich I fail to see how it has any relevance to a large part of the Northern/Rare scene. This is not to denigrate the music at all but to point out that there is no common ground at all other than being held in the same venue and that there are some who like soul from all eras but very few.

It may as well be Irish dancing in the other room as for it's influence or impact on either traditional Northern nights or more "upfront" or different venues say such as Burnley or Soulful Shack to name a couple.

ROD

Edited March 9, 2008 by modernsoulsucks

[Harry Crosby]

Whilst I'd say that the majority of what became known as Northern soul records were NOT played in the 60's,over here anyway, I would agree that things we were listening to in the first half of the 70's were not that old and taking the Mecca as an example were very new.

However,modern soul means different things to different people and having read the review of the modern room at Prestwich I fail to see how it has any relevance to a large part of the Northern/Rare scene. This is not to denigrate the music at all but to point out that there is no common ground at all other than being held in the same venue and that there are some who like soul from all eras but very few.

It may as well be Irish dancing in the other room as for it's influence or impact on either traditional Northern nights or more "upfront" or different venues say such as Burnley or Soulful Shack to name a couple.

ROD

Not in any way an officianado of this music, its a part of the scene, sixties man myself, where as there was only one style of northern soul music, there are now many, and each to there own for me, it did take some getting used to in the late 70`s after richard did those amazing rare soul sixties sessions at the casino, uproar about sam, we just couldn`t see it happening, but it did! and hats off to those who took the flack and stuck to there guns,as i say not really my thing but its an intresting thread just for opinions

Edited March 9, 2008 by HARRY CROSBY

[Guest Bearsy]

Should of stayed in the discoteque

[Pete Eccles]

Should of stayed in the discoteque

You should

[Simon M]

You should

Yeah he should of

Edited March 9, 2008 by Simon M

[Daved]

Should of stayed in the discoteque

Oi!!

It's the way forward

[bri pinch]

WOT IS.. DISCOTEQUES ...

BRI.

[Guest Bearsy]

WOT IS.. DISCOTEQUES ...

BRI.

[Daved]

Chubby Checker seems to think so

[Kevinkent]

Don`t know wether this has been done before, was out last night and got into a discussion about this, it would be intresting to hear your views, although i suppose the birth of modern soul was at places like blackpool mecca,cleethorpes pier, wich dj`s do you consider to have started this movement, and wich records stand out to you as modern soul anthems. i`ll start you off with OTIS CLAY-THE ONLY WAY IS UP-ECHOE, not being a great fan of this genre of music, my knowledge is limited, but would be intresting to hear your views

I don't know any Modern soul anthems. I'm confused with the various pigeon holes of Modern/Crossover/70's, and will probably remain so because it's not a area which I'm inclined to further explore.

This is not to denigrate it - it has it's place and some I enjoy listening to for a short while. Others seem to prefer it. Horses for courses I guess.

To those who tell me to broaden my outlook.... I do. Having been away from the scene for so long, I am constantly hearing tunes which are new to me - it's sheer coincidence that most that make me want to dance and give me that tingle down the spine, are 60's tracks. Ones that I instantly recognise as "Northern" but haven't yet read the date on the label.

To be honest, the majority of what I hear played as Alternative (for want of a better word) Soul, bear a great deal of resemblance to what would be heard along with general "disco" sounds at for instance the YMCA disco in Northampton circa 1970. A time when those who wanted to broaden their outlook ventured further afield and discovered what was to become accepted as "Northern".

Personally I think things started to go seriously wrong on a large scale in about '71 when the O'Jays had UK hits with "Love Train" followed by "Backstabbers".That was the start of the much vaunted Philly Sound being sold as the successor to the established Motown Sound. Even I got carried away for a while - thought I had the first UK copy of "Backstabbers" when Contempo in Hanway St had to open up the mail package to serve me.

All downhill from there IMO.

Of course, i could have got it all wrong about a subject which I don't care for, but these are my views and the way I see it.

-Kevin Kent.

[Steve G]

Personally I think things started to go seriously wrong on a large scale in about '71 when the O'Jays had UK hits with "Love Train" followed by "Backstabbers".That was the start of the much vaunted Philly Sound being sold as the successor to the established Motown Sound. -Kevin Kent.

Wot? Motown had stopped making the sound you associated with it in about 1967 Kevin. By 71 it was all Psycadelic shack, War, What's going on and Cloud Nine.

This has got to be one of the most bizarre comments I've seen. Things like those O'Jays hits got a whole new generation hooked. God help us if we all stagnated with The Elgins and Barbara McNair.

Steve

[Steve G]

Don`t know wether this has been done before, was out last night and got into a discussion about this, it would be intresting to hear your views, although i suppose the birth of modern soul was at places like blackpool mecca,cleethorpes pier, wich dj`s do you consider to have started this movement, and wich records stand out to you as modern soul anthems. i`ll start you off with OTIS CLAY-THE ONLY WAY IS UP-ECHOE, not being a great fan of this genre of music, my knowledge is limited, but would be intresting to hear your views

Seems to me there has been attempts to play more modern music ever since the Mecca / Pier in the mid 70s. Post the obvious Wigan / Mecca split we had Richard at the Casino c 77 playing things like Ronnie Love, Eddie Holman, Anthony White etc. - then modern - in fact new releases. By 79 / 80 Sam, Richard etc. with those wigan things like Top Cat and James Mack & Chicago Gangsters, and tghe dreaded Casanova by Coffee.

Then the early 80s with the yorkshore scene - clifton hall, snaith, rebels etc..

I agree with Rod, when he asks what is modern soul, a 70s sound that's now over 30 years old, or something like Ron Hall from a couple of years ago? Or tracks off of the Angie Stone CD?

[Kevinkent]

Wot? Motown had stopped making the sound you associated with it in about 1967 Kevin. By 71 it was all Psycadelic shack, War, What's going on and Cloud Nine.

This has got to be one of the most bizarre comments I've seen. Things like those O'Jays hits got a whole new generation hooked. God help us if we all stagnated with The Elgins and Barbara McNair.

Steve

True Steve that Motown had gone well iffy by then - and that's probably what prompted many to look for alternative labels with a similar output to what was still then regarded as the original Motown Sound. Very successful in their endeavours too, thankfully.

The Philly Sound was described as the new Motown Sound by a number of radio dj's at the time - so not an entirely original point I have made.

And yes, I'm all for new generations getting in to the scene - through whatever route.

No apologies though, right or wrong these are my views. I know how I felt at the time, and I certainly know what I like now.

-Kevin Kent

Edited March 9, 2008 by KevinKent

[Steve G]

True Steve that Motown had gone well iffy by then -

The Philly Sound was described as the new Motown Sound by a number of radio dj's at the time -

-Kevin Kent

yeah they were probably as bored as the rest of us with the same old Motown hits regurgitated....again and again.

BTW don't consider any of those Motown examples I listed as "iffy" - "the same old song" versus "Mercy mercy me"? Come on!

I agree with those that say the late 60s / early 70s was Motown's moSt creative period musically, even if I do like some of the 60s stuff.

Steve

[Kevinkent]

yeah they were probably as bored as the rest of us with the same old Motown hits regurgitated....again and again.

BTW don't consider any of those Motown examples I listed as "iffy" - "the same old song" versus "Mercy mercy me"? Come on!

I agree with those that say the late 60s / early 70s was Motown's moSt creative period musically, even if I do like some of the 60s stuff.

Steve

"bored as the rest of us"? Who is "us"? Certainly not the Northampton crowd that I hung aroud with. Different story when I moved to Maidstone in '71 maybe.

Yes those numbers you mentioned were from Motowns most creative period - they were trying harder than ever to achieve popularity.

Hey, even I owned that album with "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" on it

Anyways, not out to start a war on here. Taste, memories, views, -we've all got something different yet share a common bond. Each to their own.

-Kev.

-Kev

[Modernsoulsucks]

Steve,I don't know about "bored" with the Motown sound. I have a pretty hazy recollection of the timeline but in 70/71 I was still at school and weren't what we now call same old Motown 45s pretty hard to find then even on import. I think Elgins,Contours,Shorty Long,Earl Van Dyke etc were still the bedrock of the developing scene.

Anyway Im more interested in your view of where those Prestwich modern records fit in with your idea of what constitutes modern soul. And I noticed Cunnie lurking.

I think they're far removed from any notion of the Northern scene as I understand it but as I've never really been heavily involved at the modern end I wonder if the crossover/soulful independent later releases can successfully mix with "now" stuff or is it a different crowd.

I have to say that I did share a flat with Mike Stephens for a while and got some insight into that part of the scene and I don't think Mike would claim to be a natural progression from Northern as his roots would be more in mainstream soul, the two-step scene, and what I think may have been quite a local interest in street soul around Manchester.

ROD

Edited March 9, 2008 by modernsoulsucks

[Steve G]

Steve,I don't know about "bored" with the Motown sound. I have a pretty hazy recollection of the timeline but in 70/71 I was still at school and weren't what we now call same old Motown 45s pretty hard to find then even on import. I think Elgins,Contours,Shorty Long,Earl Van Dyke etc were still the bedrock of the developing scene.

Anyway Im more interested in your view of where those Prestwich modern records fit in with your idea of what constitutes modern soul. And I noticed Cunnie lurking.

I think they're far removed from any notion of the Northern scene as I understand it but as I've never really been heavily involved at the modern end I wonder if the crossover/soulful independent later releases can successfully mix with "now" stuff or is it a different crowd.

I have to say that I did share a flat with Mike Stephens for a while and got some insight into that part of the scene and I don't think Mike would claim to be a natural progression from Northern as his roots would be more in mainstream soul, the two-step scene, and what I think may have been quite a local interest in street soul around Manchester.

ROD

Yeah Rod, I was just having a dig at Kevin's dismissal of the O'Jays. Of course being younger than you it was all interesting stuff back then. Was being flippant.

Never been to Prestwich though, I assume it's soulful house that you are referring to. Totally a diff crowd for to 70s / crossover the real modern stuff, though obviously some like both. Guess if u turned up at a true modern venue with a box of 45s you'd be viewed as a novelty act.

I think it's all got mixed up over the years - and your point abouit Mike Stevens is a good one. Down here some on the rare soul scene came from the jazz funk scene.....some went the other way......the only conclusion is it's all over the place and you can't draw a line from one genre to another.

Steve

[Modernsoulsucks]

R&B rather than house I would think.

ROD

Edited March 9, 2008 by modernsoulsucks

[Steve G]

R&B rather than house I would think.

ROD

OK, then a BIG leap from northern.....

Never saw any link between the two styles myself.

Steve

[martynthejazz]

Well for my part in this topic, id like to add , the northern soul scene , would,nt be where it is today if it was,nt for the modern, crossover type stuff.... there would have been a lot less people into it now... it as kept the scene alive.. And on the motown tip, ( and just to add i do like al the northern oldies + 60s motown still ) motown did bring out a few modern type bits, originals , ( love town ) + the b. side. also thelma houston - dont leave me this way, + others along the way. right into the 80s.. as did Philly also... which they did alot better, i may add. But alot of the so called modern stuff came out on small, rare 45s or lp tracks only... and is still coming out . as modern is always movin forward... NOT saying all of it is good quality... but some is top class.... and iv not even mentioned the SOULFUL HOUSE, stuff... ha. IM lucky enough to enjoy nearly all of it ... a rare one .. ha. QUALITY will always shine on through....... B.womack , S.wright, T.davis, Latimore , P.mitchell , etc, etc. There is room on a good soul event to all share the same room... but at weekenders sometimes havin the 2 rooms can make sense... i would,nt mind etheir way... then again, i can Dance to both... cheers , martyn

[Simon M]

OK, then a BIG leap from northern.....

Never saw any link between the two styles myself.

Steve

But there is a link to new release r&b and some of the 80's productions that were playd at say Stafford for example . I think the Modern scene did break from Northern with success . However the two room format still exists albeit with a lot of diffrent genres involved

Edited March 9, 2008 by Simon M

[Cunnie]

Should of stayed in the discoteque

And what room were we in when Simon introduced us at Prestatyn

[Simon M]

And what room were we in when Simon introduced us at Prestatyn

LOL youve rumbled him , he also noted the tunes played Martin .

Edited March 9, 2008 by Simon M

[Wrongcrowd]

I don't know any Modern soul anthems. I'm confused with the various pigeon holes of Modern/Crossover/70's, and will probably remain so because it's not a area which I'm inclined to further explore.

This is not to denigrate it - it has it's place and some I enjoy listening to for a short while. Others seem to prefer it. Horses for courses I guess.

To those who tell me to broaden my outlook.... I do. Having been away from the scene for so long, I am constantly hearing tunes which are new to me - it's sheer coincidence that most that make me want to dance and give me that tingle down the spine, are 60's tracks. Ones that I instantly recognise as "Northern" but haven't yet read the date on the label.

To be honest, the majority of what I hear played as Alternative (for want of a better word) Soul, bear a great deal of resemblance to what would be heard along with general "disco" sounds at for instance the YMCA disco in Northampton circa 1970. A time when those who wanted to broaden their outlook ventured further afield and discovered what was to become accepted as "Northern".

Personally I think things started to go seriously wrong on a large scale in about '71 when the O'Jays had UK hits with "Love Train" followed by "Backstabbers".That was the start of the much vaunted Philly Sound being sold as the successor to the established Motown Sound. Even I got carried away for a while - thought I had the first UK copy of "Backstabbers" when Contempo in Hanway St had to open up the mail package to serve me.

All downhill from there IMO.

Of course, i could have got it all wrong about a subject which I don't care for, but these are my views and the way I see it.

-Kevin Kent.

It looks like you're locked in th 60's, it's hard to belive that you can make a comment like all down hill from the O'Jays, and bag everything after '71 as general disco . I see you include Lightwater as a favourite venue, ever thought about popping downstairs to the "modern" room during Keith and Maxine's sets ? You might just give yourself a better opportunity to broaden your outlook - but I wouldn't put money on it

[Simon M]

It looks like you're locked in th 60's, it's hard to belive that you can make a comment like all down hill from the O'Jays, and bag everything after '71 as general disco . I see you include Lightwater as a favourite venue, ever thought about popping downstairs to the "modern" room during Keith and Maxine's sets ? You might just give yourself a better opportunity to broaden your outlook - but I wouldn't put money on it

Have you met Kev, Cliff

[Kevinkent]

It looks like you're locked in th 60's, it's hard to belive that you can make a comment like all down hill from the O'Jays,I didn't exactly and bag everything after '71 as general disco I didn't at all I see you include Lightwater as a favourite venue, ever thought about popping downstairs to the "modern" room during Keith and Maxine's sets ? I did, I did You might just give yourself a better opportunity to broaden your outlook I did - I do - but I wouldn't put money on it I didn't do

What I stated was all my own personal take on things, nothing more.

Sorry that you might prefer old music which isn't quite as old as the music I prefer (but don't confine myself to)

Don't see that any of this answers the original question really, and there's more important things in life to worry about so I'm done on the subject.

-Kev.

Edited March 12, 2008 by KevinKent

[Wrongcrowd]

What I stated was all my own personal take on things, nothing more.

Sorry that you might prefer old music which isn't quite as old as the music I prefer (but don't confine myself to)

Don't see that any of this answers the original question really, and there's more important things in life to worry about so I'm done on the subject.

-Kev.

Lightwater dropped from your favourite venues list, blimey that was quick

[Wrongcrowd]

Have you met Kev, Cliff

No Simon, but met plenty from the same mould

[Pete S]

You might just give yourself a better opportunity to broaden your outlook - but I wouldn't put money on it

I really detest comments like this. Over and over again, people telling other people that they are missing out on something or have no taste unless they broaden their outlook to take in the music that they think we should like. You're like Jehovahs Witnesses, going round preaching at people and trying to convert them when nobody asked you to.

n.b. this is to everyone who constantly does this, not just the above poster

Edited March 12, 2008 by Pete S

[Kevinkent]

Lightwater dropped from your favourite venues list, blimey that was quick

Thanks for pointing that out Cliff. I'd amended my venues list prior to reading your post and deleted it in error.

It'd be a sad old world if we judged people we don't know just by what we read on this forum.

As I recall, even Simon M approached the decks with some surprise when I played at Lightwater, and commented "Oh, but I thought you'd just be playing stompers".

Hope your new night goes well.

-Kev

Edited March 12, 2008 by KevinKent

[Jellybean]

I really detest comments like this. Over and over again, people telling other people that they are missing out on something or have no taste unless they broaden their outlook to take in the music that they think we should like. You're like Jehovahs Witnesses, going round preaching at people and trying to convert them when nobody asked you to.

Agree with ya!! Well said Pete

JB xx

[Simon M]

Thanks for pointing that out Cliff. I'd amended my venues list prior to reading your post and deleted it in error.

It'd be a sad old world if we judged people people we don't know just by what we read on this forum.

As I recall, even Simon M approached the decks with some suprise and commented "Oh, but I thought you'd just be playing stompers".

Hope your new night goes well.

-Kev

++++++++++++

Of course Kev , I do listen to the music when Bearsys not screaming in my ear saying how great he is!!

[Simon M]

No Simon, but met plenty from the same mould

Yep me too

[Wrongcrowd]

I really detest comments like this. Over and over again, people telling other people that they are missing out on something or have no taste unless they broaden their outlook to take in the music that they think we should like. You're like Jehovahs Witnesses, going round preaching at people and trying to convert them when nobody asked you to.

Pete, if a comment is made on a thread titled "Birth Of Modern Soul" that completely dismisses everything past '71 then it's bound to attract a response. If people haven't got anything constructive to say then they should find another thread more in line with their views or taste.

I couldn't care less whether someone appreciates modern soul or not, each to their own, but I do care when ignorant, contemptuous and inane comments are made to against a particular music style, just because it's not their cup of tea.

Unlike Jehovahs Witnesses, I only provide sermons when invited.

[Pete S]

Pete, if a comment is made on a thread titled "Birth Of Modern Soul" that completely dismisses everything past '71 then it's bound to attract a response. If people haven't got anything constructive to say then they should find another thread more in line with their views or taste.

I couldn't care less whether someone appreciates modern soul or not, each to their own, but I do care when ignorant, contemptuous and inane comments are made to against a particular music style, just because it's not their cup of tea.

Unlike Jehovahs Witnesses, I only provide sermons when invited.

Fairy nuff

(sorry for the pathetic response but I'm listening to the budget!)

[Kevinkent]

Pete, if a comment is made on a thread titled "Birth Of Modern Soul" that completely dismisses everything past '71 then it's bound to attract a response. If people haven't got anything constructive to say then they should find another thread more in line with their views or taste.

I couldn't care less whether someone appreciates modern soul or not, each to their own, but I do care when ignorant, contemptuous and inane comments are made to against a particular music style, just because it's not their cup of tea.

Unlike Jehovahs Witnesses, I only provide sermons when invited.

Thanks for the sermon - I didn't realise you were the High Priest of the Soul Temple.

Here's a couple of other things I said:

"This is not to denigrate it - it has it's place and some I enjoy listening to for a short while. Others seem to prefer it. Horses for courses I guess."

"Of course, i could have got it all wrong about a subject which I don't care for, but these are my views and the way I see it."

Re "contemptuous and inane comments are made to against a particular music style, just because it's not their cup of tea." - I'll refer you to your own thinly veiled personal attack on me in my "Old Souls Care Home" thread.

You don't know me so I can only assume that all of this is since you've noticed I'm guesting at the "Cream Cracker" which clashes with your nearby opening nite.

All a bit unnecessary I reckon.

Anyways, there's far more important things in life to worry about so I won't be drawn further.

Sorry your thread got hijacked Harry

-Kev

[Harry Crosby]

Don`t know wether this has been done before, was out last night and got into a discussion about this, it would be intresting to hear your views, although i suppose the birth of modern soul was at places like blackpool mecca,cleethorpes pier, wich dj`s do you consider to have started this movement, and wich records stand out to you as modern soul anthems. i`ll start you off with OTIS CLAY-THE ONLY WAY IS UP-ECHOE, not being a great fan of this genre of music, my knowledge is limited, but would be intresting to hear your views

Thanks for apology kev but really not necessary any ideas on the above then

[Guest skorpiano]

Soul Sam, Richard Searling, and that bloke from the Mecca, now what was his name again?

[Epic]

I love the curiosities this wonderful scene of ours throws up.

1969 - The Twisted Wheel plays records that are possibly 2-4 years old - that is Northern Soul.

2008 - "Anyvenue" plays a record from 1975 - that is Modern Soul.

Bizarre!!!

[Guest denmac]

I really detest comments like this. Over and over again, people telling other people that they are missing out on something or have no taste unless they broaden their outlook to take in the music that they think we should like. You're like Jehovahs Witnesses, going round preaching at people and trying to convert them when nobody asked you to.

n.b. this is to everyone who constantly does this, not just the above poster

[Guest denmac]

once again peteS is commenting about modern soul.over and over again he is telling people that soul music AS HE DEFINES IT does not exist after the carstairs record. PeteS stop being like a jo witness and knocking on modern thinking doors and think you can change them. what you have to realise is that many of us on this site have got thousands of records. in my case, i have hundreds of 7s from `66-96. albums from 1957 to today, 12 inch records from the 70`s.EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM i bought because i liked them.peteS dont you realise that

your constant carping about types of tunes you dont like are so negative.i thought this site was about the things we love. peteS keep us uptodate about anything that is your expertise. ( ive just been asked a question "who did the reggae version of groovy situation` " i havnt a clue) pat kelly how long will it take.... gas .£?

[Rob Wigley]

once again peteS is commenting about modern soul.over and over again he is telling people that soul music AS HE DEFINES IT does not exist after the carstairs record. PeteS stop being like a jo witness and knocking on modern thinking doors and think you can change them. what you have to realise is that many of us on this site have got thousands of records. in my case, i have hundreds of 7s from `66-96. albums from 1957 to today, 12 inch records from the 70`s.EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM i bought because i liked them.peteS dont you realise that

your constant carping about types of tunes you dont like are so negative.i thought this site was about the things we love. peteS keep us uptodate about anything that is your expertise. ( ive just been asked a question "who did the reggae version of groovy situation` " i havnt a clue) pat kelly how long will it take.... gas .£?

looks like you had a good night at Willington mate sorry we missed it, have PM'd you

R & K

[Guest]

I love the curiosities this wonderful scene of ours throws up.

1969 - The Twisted Wheel plays records that are possibly 2-4 years old - that is Northern Soul.

2008 - "Anyvenue" plays a record from 1975 - that is Modern Soul.

Bizarre!!!

Modern or oldies ? - let me see ...........

All records played are " oldies " ........

The only difference in records , is that there are obvious musical differences of style , tempo and content , and the year the were recorded in ........

Now that observation will put the cat amongst the pigeons .........

Malc Burton

Edited March 16, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Epic]

Modern or oldies ? - let me see ...........

All records played are " oldies " ........

The only difference in records , is that there are obvious musical differences of style , tempo and content , and the year the were recorded in ........

Now that observation will put the cat amongst the pigeons .........

Malc Burton

But-as everybody knows :- All records were modern once!!!

[Guest]

But-as everybody knows :- All records were modern once!!!

I was waiting for you to post your sub line .......

I totally agree - but what I meant , is that if a track is not recorded , pressed , distributed , sold and listened to today

( Sunday the 16th of March ) , it is therefore an oldie , irrespective of the style .......

The above statement / observation was made very much TIC .........

Life is too short : let us enjoy the music while we can .........

Malc Burton

[Barry]

Do you not think that your personal and singular understanding of the term 'Northern Soul' comes, obviously, from the time that you entered into it?

That time being when you were open to the particular records that were given the credence to be played on the scene at that (your) time by the people deemed worthy by the masses (you) to do so?

Surely!?

On the understanding of the above equation, that is - (E=MC2)

E [DJ's] = M [Dancefloor Reaction] C [Dancers] 2 [bombers please mate]

....is it not too far a stretch of the imagination to say that us punters can argue 'til we're blue in the brogue about what is/was/is yet to be Modern Soul on any given period on the NS scene?

This is such a huge subject to broach (but a very simple one at heart), I don't think that even I can be arsed to tap it out on here....

...but I do think it is a subject that generally brings up an amount of ill-thought out petty musical views that have little or no standing in truth.

If you think Northern was ever all about 60's, then you obviously entered into the scene and danced to stuff singularly released in the 60's, true?

I don't know for sure but I'm willing to bet that from 1970 onwards there was stuff played at nighter level, no matter how small an amount, as new releases - maybe as leftfield punts - at nighters.

It is obvious what the person who started this thread is asking - but I haven't seen a decent response yet.

'Modern' brought a whole new vitality to the NS scene, youngblood - and for that fact alone I can't ever see the reasoning behind people at all nighter level knocking it.

It isn't a case of 'My (Northern) Dad is bigger than your (Modern) Dad', or vice versa - it is the most silly of arguments with no real end - as it is all subjective. dependant on what you heard and when you heard it.

Anyway back to the question, Modern to me (my view, within my time frame) began at Rotherham - Top Cat (sic), ZZ & Co, Carol Anderson et al, which were first played to me on the floorboards at Wigan were still, in my mind, 'Newies' [Northern Soul played to me by well respected, hard working collectors who had earnt the right to spread their knowledge and views via a pair of decks at Nighters] - end of - it was fucking Northern.

I started to hear stuff at Rotherham, Otis Clay, Oscar Perry, Alfie Davidson etc (there were certain cross-over sounds such as Curtis and King Tutt yeah), then there was the Stafford stuff and Sam & Arthur at Bradford that expanded the 'Modern' sound so much....and I can feel myself getting drawn into spending another hour on here, which right now I can ill afford (get to bed son)...sooo:

TCALSS:

In my mind the term 'Modern' became an everyday term associated with The (my) Northern scene around about 81/82 and hitting its full flourish (as regards to it's eventual meaning on this scene) in about 85/86.

....once again, this is only My view.

(Christ! I wish I could type faster and had nowt else to do today cos I could have rattled on about this one for hours!)