Northern Soul

[Barry]

Is it a valid term these days?

Or maybe in reality is it just a term that is a lazy explanation for and to outsiders of a scene that once was, that is similar in it's ideals to what is happening today at all nighters.

I guess what I mean is - wasn't the term 'Northern Soul' coined for a movement that was happening at that time?

American bands make 'punk' sounding music today but it isn't termed 'punk' anymore is it - as it has 'moved on'.

Am I making myself clear here?

[Guest]

Is it a valid term these days?

Or maybe in reality is it just a term that is a lazy explanation for and to outsiders of a scene that once was, that is similar in it's ideals to what is happening today at all nighters.

I guess what I mean is - wasn't the term 'Northern Soul' coined for a movement that was happening at that time?

American bands make 'punk' sounding music today but it isn't termed 'punk' anymore is it - as it has 'moved on'.

Am I making myself clear here?

I have never liked , or felt comfortable , with the term " Northern Soul " .......

At the time of Dave Godin coining the phrase , he did it to label a particular style of music at the time that had emerged .......

Even then , the records played on the soul scene were already developing and moving forward , and within a few years , the term

" Northern Soul " , in a lot of opinions , had became somewhat redundant .......

That development , and the variety records played on the scene , is still very much evident , and more so , relevent today ......

Malc Burton

Edited March 9, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Cunnie]

Are any of the so called 'terms' valid any more though Barry?

Northern, Modern, RnB (old or new), Disco, Funk, Crossover etc.

If I was put on the spot & asked for my all time favourite record i'd have to say it was King Tutt - You Got Me Hung Up.

You could ask 1/2 a dozen people to put it into 1 of the categories above & get 1/2 a dozen different answers.

[Guest]

Are any of the so called 'terms' valid any more though Barry?

Northern, Modern, RnB (old or new), Disco, Funk, Crossover etc.

If I was put on the spot & asked for my all time favourite record i'd have to say it was King Tutt - You Got Me Hung Up.

You could ask 1/2 a dozen people to put it into 1 of the categories above & get 1/2 a dozen different answers.

You forgot to include two step , three step , jive , boogie and in - out shake it all about .......

Dance music is dance music - whatever the style : it just depends on your reaction to , and enjoyment of it .......

King Tutt ? - definately NorMoDisFuCo ........

Malc Burton

Edited March 9, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Guest Simon]

I don't personally think it's relevant because it's not all played up North & it's not all Soul BUT i really like the term 'Northern Soul'!

I don't personally like people using terms like 'across the board', 'Crossover', R & B' etc, should just be under the banner of Northern Soul imho.

Simon

[Guest]

I don't personally think it's relevant because it's not all played up North & it's not all Soul BUT i really like the term 'Northern Soul'!

I don't personally like people using terms like 'across the board', 'Crossover', R & B' etc, should just be under the banner of Northern Soul imho.

Simon

The terms ATB , CO , RNB etc. , have to be used - and will be used for a long time to come , as will be the term NS - in order to give an indication of what is , or going to be played , at a venue , in order to attract the prospective punter .......

Malc Burton

Edited March 9, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Guest Simon]

The terms ATB , CO , RNB etc. , have to be used - and will be used for a long time to come , as will be the term NS - in order to give an indication of what is , or going to be played , at a venue , in order to attract the prospective punter .......

Malc Burton

I understand what you're saying Malc but you used to be able to just go to a Northern Soul do, you'd hear some R & B, Crossover etc. but that was all fine & dandy, you just excepted it as all part of NS, imo now things have become polarised & you either have to go in the 6ts Room/R & B Room/ Crossover Room etc.

This has happened on the Mod scene also where you have to choose between the R & B Room/Freakbeat Room/Ska Room etc.

A good dj used to be able to read the crowd & play what was required at the time & you couldn't necessarily tell which dj was on as the whole evening blended seamlessly from one dj to another, nowadays there's no flow sometimes, you'll get one dj playing heavily say R & B then the next'll go on & play loads of Crossover.

I'm putting on a do in Brighton in April & i've deliberately only put the text of "an Evening of Northern Soul aimed directly at the dancefloor", might put some people off coming but it may also get people in as we're not trying to polarise things, just play great NS records that peeps will hopefully want to dance to, it will be very much 6ts orientated with some Crossover/R & B etc. also, this is what NS was when i got into 10/15 years ago, all these sub genres aren't helpful imo if you are calling your night NORTHERN SOUL.

Simon

[Guest]

I understand what you're saying Malc but you used to be able to just go to a Northern Soul do, you'd hear some R & B, Crossover etc. but that was all fine & dandy, you just excepted it as all part of NS, imo now things have become polarised & you either have to go in the 6ts Room/R & B Room/ Crossover Room etc.

This has happened on the Mod scene also where you have to choose between the R & B Room/Freakbeat Room/Ska Room etc.

A good dj used to be able to read the crowd & play what was required at the time & you couldn't necessarily tell which dj was on as the whole evening blended seamlessly from one dj to another, nowadays there's no flow sometimes, you'll get one dj playing heavily say R & B then the next'll go on & play loads of Crossover.

I'm putting on a do in Brighton in April & i've deliberately only put the text of "an Evening of Northern Soul aimed directly at the dancefloor", might put some people off coming but it may also get people in as we're not trying to polarise things, just play great NS records that peeps will hopefully want to dance to, it will be very much 6ts orientated with some Crossover/R & B etc. also, this is what NS was when i got into 10/15 years ago, all these sub genres aren't helpful imo if you are calling your night NORTHERN SOUL.

Simon

Good luck with your venture , Simon ........

I have always believed in the adage " If a record is good , it is good enough to be played " , whatever the genre : I have always endeavoured whenever I have promoted , to ensure that the musical policy and content of the venue is widespread , as I feel that " variety is the spice of life " , and by doing so , you can hopefully give the punters something that they like , and by doing so , they give the seal of approve to your venue ......

If I go to a night , I go knowing full well of what to expect beforehand . I have no qualms about attending oldies , modern , R & B , or funk orientated nights : I just like soul and dance music , and because of that , I enjoy what I get " given " .......

Malc Burton

Edited March 9, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Cunnie]

You forgot to include two step , three step , jive , boogie and in - out shake it all about .......

Dance music is dance music - whatever the style : it just depends on your reaction to , and enjoyment of it .......

King Tutt ? - definately NorMoDisFuCo ........

Malc Burton

Glad that's cleared up

[Barry]

Are any of the so called 'terms' valid any more though Barry?

Northern, Modern, RnB (old or new), Disco, Funk, Crossover etc.

If I was put on the spot & asked for my all time favourite record i'd have to say it was King Tutt - You Got Me Hung Up.

You could ask 1/2 a dozen people to put it into 1 of the categories above & get 1/2 a dozen different answers.

I know Cunnie, I was hoping that I may get a half dozen different answers, rather than your single obvious one.

They are all valid terms as it happens, on their outset as 'termed' scenes - it was the 'at what point do they stop?' answer that I was looking for.

My 'House' record label was named 'Fun City' btw - I robbed the whole label type set as it happens - as I too LOVE 'YGMHU' and that was my little nod to the set up and the time I spent dancing to that awesome production.

Does anyone remember the interview with King Tutt (was it in Blackbeat?), apparently he was Jimmy Bo Hornes Drummer and has no recollection of making the B Side to 'D-A-N-C-I-N' - 'YGMHU'...he liked a smoke apparently.

Edited March 14, 2008 by Barry

[Mak]

King Tutt ? - definately NorMoDisFuCo

Malc Burton

Right Martin , have you sorted your play box out for The Bentinck

[KevH]

Is it a valid term these days?

Or maybe in reality is it just a term that is a lazy explanation for and to outsiders of a scene that once was, that is similar in it's ideals to what is happening today at all nighters.

I guess what I mean is - wasn't the term 'Northern Soul' coined for a movement that was happening at that time?

American bands make 'punk' sounding music today but it isn't termed 'punk' anymore is it - as it has 'moved on'.

Am I making myself clear here?

Hi Barry,think i know what your'e gettin at.

Yeah ,Northern Soul was coined at the "time", by DG, but only people who are not connected at all with the scene would have a problem understanding the sub -genres that have emerged.

Spoke to a "collector" of brit soul recently who stopped going anywhere when the WHEEL closed.His take on Northern.....strings, a dance beat,and the word BABY in the lyrics!!.Anything else he doesn't get!!.

The term Northern maybe sounds dated,but if you want to "move on",were does that leave the Mods?,Rnb,etc?.

Its just a convenient name that covers a multitude of sins.

Unless you run a Crossover nite,or RnB,or Mod,or Classic,or Club,or Modern,or Upfront.........................................................

btw,would have thought the punk bands of now in the States would like to be called Punks?.Very Retro.

to each their own

[Tomangoes]

This topic was covered a few weeks ago and one point that was made was that its more about a lifestyle than just music.

The Northern Soul Scene has not changed that much in 35 years if you break it down into basics IMO. It was not a popular term then except to those who were making money out of it just like now.

Ed

[KevH]

This topic was covered a few weeks ago and one point that was made was that its more about a lifestyle than just music.

The Northern Soul Scene has not changed that much in 35 years if you break it down into basics IMO. It was not a popular term then except to those who were making money out of it just like now.

Ed

not a popular term?,well its stood the test of time tho'.

Only coined for the corporate image?.my god,i fell for that.

its not Northern its ,its ,its,,,,,well something else now.

Lets find something else to disagree on............................i know, too many venues.

[Mark Bicknell]

The term or name 'Northern Soul' is retro and nostalgia in it's self, a term coined by DG back in the early 70's, for me circa 2008 the term 'Northern Soul' evokes everything naff conected with the rare soul scene, baggie trousers, soul patches, T- shirts etc. etc. and all the other pointless tat that goes along with it.

As a music term it's first class and is a easy way to tag, soul music in the main played in the North simple as, as with many things connected with this scene the name and the term has been used and abused for far too long.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Coops]

The term or name 'Northern Soul' is retro and nostalgia in it's self, a term coined by DG back in the early 70's, for me circa 2008 the term 'Northern Soul' evokes everything naff conected with the rare soul scene, baggie trousers, soul patches, T- shirts etc. etc. and all the other pointless tat that goes along with it.

As a music term it's first class and is a easy way to tag, soul music in the main played in the North simple as, as with many things connected with this scene the name and the term has been used and abused for far too long.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

a 'label' or 'sign' is to assist in the finding of something/somewhere. if the term leads people to what they are looking for then it serves it's purpose.

a wise man once wrote.... "a rose smells as sweet (or foul) under any name"

[Guest Fatius Bumius]

a wise man once wrote.... "a rose smells as sweet (or foul) under any name

A wise woman once wrote "A growing northern soul rose smells sweet - but once picked in 2008 and mixed (diluted) with water it smells of horse poo

[Mark Bicknell]

a 'label' or 'sign' is to assist in the finding of something/somewhere. if the term leads people to what they are looking for then it serves it's purpose.

a wise man once wrote.... "a rose smells as sweet (or foul) under any name"

Perfect reply, can't really add to that, I've certainly found where I want to be...Stamford Bridge on a Saturday afternoon bliss....lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Coops]

a wise man once wrote.... "a rose smells as sweet (or foul) under any name

A wise woman once wrote "A growing northern soul rose smells sweet - but once picked in 2008 and mixed (diluted) with water it smells of horse poo

if she was so wise she would not mix her metaphors..... just saying

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

The term or name 'Northern Soul' is retro and nostalgia in it's self, a term coined by DG back in the early 70's, for me circa 2008 the term 'Northern Soul' evokes everything naff conected with the rare soul scene, baggie trousers, soul patches, T- shirts etc. etc. and all the other pointless tat that goes along with it.

As a music term it's first class and is a easy way to tag, soul music in the main played in the North simple as, as with many things connected with this scene the name and the term has been used and abused for far too long.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I m in total agreement Mark.I refuse to use the term ,in my view it,s an albatross round the neck of the soul scene and is past it,s sell by date

[jocko]

a wise man once wrote.... "a rose smells as sweet (or foul) under any name

A wise woman once wrote "A growing northern soul rose smells sweet - but once picked in 2008 and mixed (diluted) with water it smells of horse poo

I was thinking of something witty to say re original quote, but you done it very well!! I think NS is a very good example of the English language phenomenon where a name means many different things to different people, and yes horse poo is definitely what some people include in their definition!

Think we should start a Rare?northern/6ts/7ts or just a Soul trading standards committee, can you imagine the fun when trying to agree guidelines and standards!

[Kev Cane]

I was thinking of something witty to say re original quote, but you done it very well!! I think NS is a very good example of the English language phenomenon where a name means many different things to different people, and yes horse poo is definitely what some people include in their definition!

Think we should start a Rare?northern/6ts/7ts or just a Soul trading standards committee, can you imagine the fun when trying to agree guidelines and standards!

How many of you out there have been to a 21st, 18th, 40th or whatever birthday do and the DJ says " now we are going to have some Northern Soul" and then procedes to play "Third finger left hand" or "Nine times out of ten" and someone leans over to you and says the magical words "why aren,t you dancing ? I thought you were into Northern Soul" nuff said. Personally, I like all of it, however people like to categorise it, as long as its "soulfull" Northern, Crossover, Deep, Modern, "The Soul Scene" sounds good to me.

Regards

Kev

[ChrisOD1964]

its quite funny up here when i mention i`m going to a northern soul doo people have two reactions the first one is they mention or start singing THE YOUTH CLUB TUNES or they start trying to do a soul type dance which is nothing like we do or even did years ago then i have to tell them they would be highly unlikely to recognise the records played these days

chris

[Guest east rob]

I understand what you're saying Malc but you used to be able to just go to a Northern Soul do, you'd hear some R & B, Crossover etc. but that was all fine & dandy, you just excepted it as all part of NS, imo now things have become polarised & you either have to go in the 6ts Room/R & B Room/ Crossover Room etc.

This has happened on the Mod scene also where you have to choose between the R & B Room/Freakbeat Room/Ska Room etc.

A good dj used to be able to read the crowd & play what was required at the time & you couldn't necessarily tell which dj was on as the whole evening blended seamlessly from one dj to another, nowadays there's no flow sometimes, you'll get one dj playing heavily say R & B then the next'll go on & play loads of Crossover.

I'm putting on a do in Brighton in April & i've deliberately only put the text of "an Evening of Northern Soul aimed directly at the dancefloor", might put some people off coming but it may also get people in as we're not trying to polarise things, just play great NS records that peeps will hopefully want to dance to, it will be very much 6ts orientated with some Crossover/R & B etc. also, this is what NS was when i got into 10/15 years ago, all these sub genres aren't helpful imo if you are calling your night NORTHERN SOUL.

Simon

hi simon, what date is the do. & wheres it at?? regards, rob

[Briles]

Is it a valid term these days?

Or maybe in reality is it just a term that is a lazy explanation for and to outsiders of a scene that once was, that is similar in it's ideals to what is happening today at all nighters.

I guess what I mean is - wasn't the term 'Northern Soul' coined for a movement that was happening at that time?

American bands make 'punk' sounding music today but it isn't termed 'punk' anymore is it - as it has 'moved on'.

Am I making myself clear here?

For me Northern Soul is the only music I like generally. I personally feel the proper classic stuff I grew up with, known and worshipped in the mid 70's has never had much quality added to it. Yeah there's been a few, but percentage wise at least 80 percent of the decent stuff which helped coin the phrase was by then discovered.

The genres of crossover, R&B, doo-wop, popcorn, rare soul are poor cousins of proper Classic Northern soul which eminated mainly from Detroit in 1966-68. Modern Soul which started around 1970 and is generally best split into a seperate room imho.

Soul patches, baggy trousers, sport bags and retro effects are fine if you're into that sort of thing, up to the person. For me though, proper classic Northen Soul should never be tainted by these offshoots if that's the right phrase. Keep 'em seperate, keep the real deal real. Northern Soul was coined by a great man with great musical taste, all again imo.

Best

Dave

[Quinvy]

For me Northern Soul is the only music I like generally. I personally feel the proper classic stuff I grew up with, known and worshipped in the mid 70's has never had much quality added to it. Yeah there's been a few, but percentage wise at least 80 percent of the decent stuff which helped coin the phrase was by then discovered........ ........... ..........That's f***ing slander. ......

[Guest posstot]

I m in total agreement Mark.I refuse to use the term ,in my view it,s an albatross round the neck of the soul scene and is past it,s sell by date

Like most of the music played at venues you mean... .....[i DON'T KNOW THIS ONE...IT MUST BE RnB]

[ROY WHO?] OH YOU MEAN THE CRACKIN UP OVER YOU TUNE....NO I MEAN; TAKE IT EASY JOE, I NEED YOUR LOVIN, A GREAT ROMANCE, SHE'S GOT A HEART, SHE MAKES ME WANNA DANCE, PLEASE LOUISE...ALL TUNES LOST UNDER THE BANNER OF "NORTHERN" SOUL...IT'S ALL FROM THE AMERICAN RnB CHARTS, SOME MORE "SOULFUL"(sung with heart and expression, influenced heavily by there gospel roots)THAN OTHERS. IN THE WORDS OF SIDNEY BARNES "NORTHERN SOUL? WE USED TO CALL IT RnB"

Edited March 15, 2008 by posstot

[Mark Bicknell]

For me Northern Soul is the only music I like generally. I personally feel the proper classic stuff I grew up with, known and worshipped in the mid 70's has never had much quality added to it. Yeah there's been a few, but percentage wise at least 80 percent of the decent stuff which helped coin the phrase was by then discovered.

The genres of crossover, R&B, doo-wop, popcorn, rare soul are poor cousins of proper Classic Northern soul which eminated mainly from Detroit in 1966-68. Modern Soul which started around 1970 and is generally best split into a seperate room imho.

Soul patches, baggy trousers, sport bags and retro effects are fine if you're into that sort of thing, up to the person. For me though, proper classic Northen Soul should never be tainted by these offshoots if that's the right phrase. Keep 'em seperate, keep the real deal real. Northern Soul was coined by a great man with great musical taste, all again imo.

Best

Dave

Mainly from Detroit??? sure major soul city I agree and that period 66-68 produced some wonderful tunes but you have to through Chicago which IMO matched Detroit pound for pound, L.A/West Coast Mirwood is a prime example of a West Coast Label which sound was and still is a good template of what we now know to be classic Northern Soul, Philadelphia, New Orleans, New York etc. into the mix and open up the period to cover 1964 - 1969 I think.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Simon]

hi simon, what date is the do. & wheres it at?? regards, rob

Hi Rob,

Saturday 26th April 2008, Volks Tavern, Madeira Drive, Brighton.

Regards

Simon

[Briles]

Mainly from Detroit??? sure major soul city I agree and that period 66-68 produced some wonderful tunes but you have to through Chicago which IMO matched Detroit pound for pound, L.A/West Coast Mirwood is a prime example of a West Coast Label which sound was and still is a good template of what we now know to be classic Northern Soul, Philadelphia, New Orleans, New York etc. into the mix and open up the period to cover 1964 - 1969 I think.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Love a lot of the Mirwood stuff, also Arctic, Harthon, St. Lawrence, Chess etc, and didn't wish to imply Detroit is the be all and end all. With regard pound for pound Chicago/Detriot you could be right, not going to try and analyse statistics myself. I'm happy enough with what you said about the years too, so generally agree with what you said Mark.

Best

Dave

[Briles]

........... ..........That's f***ing slander. ......

That's your opinion, and you are, of course, entitled to it

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Some people, mostly marketting types, need to have tags to put on things, but these days they're pretty worthless to anyone over the age of maybe 13. R&B today bears no relationship to the music of that title back in the 60s, today's rap was called beat poetry in the 50s, rap was that thing Millie Jackson did better than anyone else, and as for swing and funk... Today's swing doesn't swing and its funk ain't funky, so... I guess by and large northern soul has held out better than most genres, but if the stuff I've heard on Radio Stoke's NS show over the last few weeks is anything to go by then that's on its way out too...