Al Kent - Youve Got To Pay The Price

[Alamo]

Hi all,

Heres one for you, especially those of you who collect the Uk Mojo label. How rare is Al Kents (2092015) 'Youve Got To Pay The Price' on this UK label.

How much does it fetch and more importantly has anyone got a scan of the label with this title on it please!?

regards - Al

[Guest sadsam]

Unissued me thiks? ---------- SAM

[Alamo]

Unissued me thiks? ---------- SAM

The reason I asked is because I noticed that Manships UK guide has this listed at £300 and he doesn't mention this as being unissued material?

However, I think you are probably right but just wondered if someone can confirm this as a definite?

regards - Al

[Alan Pollard]

Unissued me thiks? ---------- SAM

I have seen a promotion copy of it many years ago, so it probably didn't get as far as being issued but demo's exist. I'd like to throw another of these do they or don't they exist records and that is The Volumes on Pama ?????????????

Regards

Alan

[Guest sadsam]

oh - no no no yes - i mean no ---------- SAM can't say how i know but no

[Alamo]

I have seen a promotion copy of it many years ago, so it probably didn't get as far as being issued but demo's exist. I'd like to throw another of these do they or don't they exist records and that is The Volumes on Pama ?????????????

Regards

Alan

According TO JM's Guide I quote re: Volumes 'Its existance is still unconfirmed, white label test press may exist. the full label release PROBABLY DOESN'T.

Its still nice to dream that one day one will show up though isn't it, and if so, who would need a pension!!??

Al

[Steve G]

Hi all,

Heres one for you, especially those of you who collect the Uk Mojo label. How rare is Al Kents (2092015) 'Youve Got To Pay The Price' on this UK label.

How much does it fetch and more importantly has anyone got a scan of the label with this title on it please!?

regards - Al

Never ever seen one.

[Sean Hampsey]

Never ever seen one.

Me neither!

[Dave Moore]

I have seen a promotion copy of it many years ago, so it probably didn't get as far as being issued but demo's exist. I'd like to throw another of these do they or don't they exist records and that is The Volumes on Pama ?????????????

Regards

Alan

Rumour only as far as I know Al. Had most of the UK stuff over the years but never saw or heard of anyone who had one. Nice to see you and Judi last weekend, even if it was short Mate.

[Guest taffy]

i've had both these records plus a gerri hall on uk sue and i once had a rocking horse that could talk

[Steve G]

i've had both these records plus a gerri hall on uk sue and i once had a rocking horse that could talk

...and of course a rocking horse that sh*ts

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I have seen a promotion copy of it many years ago, so it probably didn't get as far as being issued but demo's exist.

...Mojo demos? What do they look like then, seeing as you've seen one? Can you or anybody put up a scan of a Mojo demo? ANY Mojo demo will do...

[Guest taffy]

...Mojo demos? What do they look like then, seeing as you've seen one? Can you or anybody put up a scan of a Mojo demo? ANY Mojo demo will do...

had a few with a white date stamped sticker on tone but that's about as near to a demo i've ever seen.

[45cellar]

had a few with a white date stamped sticker on tone but that's about as near to a demo i've ever seen.

Me too, nearest thing to a DEMO for Mojo, ust the Stock Copy with a Date Sticker.

Bought at the time from Rotherham Market, if I remember correctly.

I think that I have about four, but NOT Al Kent.

If this is the only Type of DEMO, then the Stock Copy would be there I suppose.

Just wondering if there is a chance that a Plastic Label Variation DEMO exists for some of these.

Similar to this one, but obviously the Mojo Label.

Edited March 7, 2008 by 45cellar

[Mark B]

Me too, nearest thing to a DEMO for Mojo, ust the Stock Copy with a Date Sticker.

Bought at the time from Rotherham Market, if I remember correctly.

I think that I have about four, but NOT Al Kent.

If this is the only Type of DEMO, then the Stock Copy would be there I suppose.

Just wondering if there is a chance that a Plastic Label Variation DEMO exists for some of these.

Similar to this one, but obviously the Mojo Label.

seem to recall some of the plastic with stickers on and i am sure i had one with a black stamp on saying demo, ?

mark

[Alamo]

[quote name='mark.b' date='Mar 7 08, 07:26 AM' post='715798 i am sure i had one with a black stamp on saying demo, ?

mark

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

But was AL Kent ever issued at all or is it another of those catalogue numbers that was never released and if not, why not!!??

Al

Here's a theory - and it is just a theory...

As most people on here will know, YGTPTP was originally issued here on Track, a Polydor subsidiary. Mojo was also a Polydor subsidiary, and I would guess that Polydor might have had a piece of paper suggesting that they had a perpetuitous licence for the Golden World material that had come out on Track and/or Polydor (which would also explain how they were able to reissue, and get a hit out of, "Stop Her On Sight" after Edwin's contract - and Ric Tic itself - had been sold to Motown).

Therefore I would also guess that they were planning to reissue YGTPTP, when someone from UK Motown noticed what they were doing and put a block on it, due to the fact the rights of ownership had passed to Motown.

For my part ,I was a regular shopper in Contempo's Hanway Street offices at the time that this record would have been scheduled to come out. If copies had been pressed before the release was scrapped, I am sure that John Abbey would have had at least a few 'under the counter' to sell as 'collectors items'...

BTW I've also seen (and, on refelection, even owned) stickered 'promo' stock copies of the sort that Roger was kind enough to post up, but I was really thinking of proper demos when I made my earlier comment. I don't believe that any 'proper demos' exist with the words "promotional copy - not for sale" actually printed on the label, or even moulded into the plastic like Roger's Gloria Gaynor 45.

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Here's a theory - and it is just a theory...

As most people on here will know, YGTPTP was originally issued here on Track, a Polydor subsidiary. Mojo was also a Polydor subsidiary, and I would guess that Polydor might have had a piece of paper suggesting that they had a perpetuitous licence for the Golden World material that had come out on Track and/or Polydor (which would also explain how they were able to reissue, and get a hit out of, "Stop Her On Sight" after Edwin's contract - and Ric Tic itself - had been sold to Motown).

Therefore I would also guess that they were planning to reissue YGTPTP, when someone from UK Motown noticed what they were doing and put a block on it, due to the fact the rights of ownership had passed to Motown.

Makes sense to me Tone...

[Sean Hampsey]

BTW I've also seen (and, on refelection, even owned) stickered 'promo' stock copies of the sort that Roger was kind enough to post up, but I was really thinking of proper demos when I made my earlier comment. I don't believe that any 'proper demos' exist with the words "promotional copy - not for sale" actually printed on the label, or even moulded into the plastic like Roger's Gloria Gaynor 45.

Agree - there were only 'Sticker Demo's of Mojo product.

I've had quite a few - and probably sold Roger his copies (above) from my stall on Rotherham market.

Sean

[Pete S]

I've seen a demo of the debonairs on track - white test pressing with custom track labels and typed info

[Sean Hampsey]

I've seen a demo of the debonairs on track - white test pressing with custom track labels and typed info

But have you ever seen a proper MOJO demo Pete?

Sean

[Pete S]

But have you ever seen a proper MOJO demo Pete?

Sean

No, don't think I have

[Guest topcatnumpty1]

Adding to the --"it could have come out on British"-line-----U.K. Island i believe issued the horrible --Tim Tam and The Turn Ons--"Wait a Minute"(which was originally issued in the states on Detroit,s Palmer label). it was not a U.S.hit ---so why release it in the U.K. ---and why not try later with some other Palmer stuff i.e.--"My world is on Fire"----"I AM Nothing" or The People,s Choice-----i can always dream(Hull City ,in The Premiership---one day!!!!

Keep on etc.

Tony C.

[Alamo]

Here's a theory - and it is just a theory...

As most people on here will know, YGTPTP was originally issued here on Track, a Polydor subsidiary. Mojo was also a Polydor subsidiary, and I would guess that Polydor might have had a piece of paper suggesting that they had a perpetuitous licence for the Golden World material that had come out on Track and/or Polydor (which would also explain how they were able to reissue, and get a hit out of, "Stop Her On Sight" after Edwin's contract - and Ric Tic itself - had been sold to Motown).

Therefore I would also guess that they were planning to reissue YGTPTP, when someone from UK Motown noticed what they were doing and put a block on it, due to the fact the rights of ownership had passed to Motown.

For my part ,I was a regular shopper in Contempo's Hanway Street offices at the time that this record would have been scheduled to come out. If copies had been pressed before the release was scrapped, I am sure that John Abbey would have had at least a few 'under the counter' to sell as 'collectors items'...

BTW I've also seen (and, on refelection, even owned) stickered 'promo' stock copies of the sort that Roger was kind enough to post up, but I was really thinking of proper demos when I made my earlier comment. I don't believe that any 'proper demos' exist with the words "promotional copy - not for sale" actually printed on the label, or even moulded into the plastic like Roger's Gloria Gaynor 45.

Sounds very plausible to me Tony and makes me feel a bit happier about the whole thing except...

Why has JM got it booked at £300 in his UK guide without any reference at all to its existance 'doubts' & if it was never released, it cant possibly have a value... can it!!??

John, if you are reading this thread, have you seen one?

[Our Kid]

Adding to the --"it could have come out on British"-line-----U.K. Island i believe issued the horrible --Tim Tam and The Turn Ons--"Wait a Minute"(which was originally issued in the states on Detroit,s Palmer label). it was not a U.S.hit ---so why release it in the U.K. ---and why not try later with some other Palmer stuff i.e.--"My world is on Fire"----"I AM Nothing" or The People,s Choice-----i can always dream(Hull City ,in The Premiership---one day!!!!

Keep on etc.

Tony C.

There was a bit of a game going on,I believe originated by Pye whereby the US guys said 'this one's a biggun you need the rights to it' when in fact it had done little in the states.I'm led to believe this was in retaliation to UK guys doing the same trick with pseudobeatle soundalikes.

Bet it was fun at the time,and did the average soul collector benefit - and then some!

Think of some of the great ones that got through - and why the myth still exists on some potential UK releases.

Paul

[Alamo]

There was a bit of a game going on,I believe originated by Pye whereby the US guys said 'this one's a biggun you need the rights to it' when in fact it had done little in the states.I'm led to believe this was in retaliation to UK guys doing the same trick with pseudobeatle soundalikes.

Bet it was fun at the time,and did the average soul collector benefit - and then some!

Think of some of the great ones that got through - and why the myth still exists on some potential UK releases.

Paul

Love It Paul. I didn't expect to open up such an interesting debate as this but like Tony's statement, yours sounds a very plausible explanation too!

You can imagine plenty of annoyed record companies issueing songs on both sides of the pond which then fell completely flat in the marketplace. Like you say, it certainly benefitted many rare soul collector.

Al

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Something that certainly IS true where the UK London label is concerned, is that from the mid 50s to the mid 60s, the contracts they struck with US labels compelled them to issue any record from their US licensors that made the Billboard Hot Hundred, or that looked as though it was going to do so with some certainty.

They were not obligated to release solely those records, but if it was a hit, they had to release it - that was their deal.

I mention this in case anyone ever wondered why certain Atlantic or Monument 45s, for example, came out here, while others did not...

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Sounds very plausible to me Tony and makes me feel a bit happier about the whole thing except...

Why has JM got it booked at £300 in his UK guide without any reference at all to its existance 'doubts' & if it was never released, it cant possibly have a value... can it!!??

You'd have to ask John about that. He's apparently seen a few records that only exist in other people's minds ...

...just joshing, John, hope you don't object...

[Steve G]

There was a scan of the Pama Volumes 45 in an old soul rag, but I think it was just a spoof.

Steve

[funkyfeet]

I think JM rightly puts a price on something because if it does exist then that's a starting price of £300 from experience and you possibly would only be talking about single figures if it turned up, so the price wouldn't be off the wall anyway for a rare vinyl 45.

You can add First Choice "This is the House" on Pye in this little thread.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I think JM rightly puts a price on something because if it does exist then that's a starting price of £300 from experience and you possibly would only be talking about single figures if it turned up, so the price wouldn't be off the wall anyway for a rare vinyl 45.

Sorry, but if it doesn't exist (and I firmly believe that it doesn't), then you can't put a price on it. What's the point?

[Guest sadsam]

I think JM rightly puts a price on something because if it does exist then that's a starting price of £300 from experience and you possibly would only be talking about single figures if it turned up, so the price wouldn't be off the wall anyway for a rare vinyl 45.

You can add First Choice "This is the House" on Pye in this little thread.

YES ON THIS ONE PYE TEST PRESSING ------- SAM

[Alamo]

Sorry, but if it doesn't exist (and I firmly believe that it doesn't), then you can't put a price on it. What's the point?

I agree wholeheartedly. If one were to turn, I think you can forget about single figures and increase it nearly four figures cant you? Rare records command high prices for that very reason. Lets face it, if Frank Wilsons 'Do I Love You...' turned up in any volume, the price would plummet significantly.

I know what people are now going to say - Why are certain 'rare' records available in their hundreds and other much cheaper sounds so elusive by their very nature? Cant answer that one im afraid. I think that is something that has evolved through record dealers & colectors over the years.

My point is, truly rare records should command high prices, subject to their popularity of course. Another great UK example would be Billy Harners 'What About The Music' INSTRUMENTAL version. Only a handful of known copies exist on Kama Sutra, hence you would expect to pay big money if you were a serious collector.

So I would argue that if I went to my local car boot on Sunday and found a copy of the Volumes on Pama & an Al Kent on Mojo (with a sticky label of course!!), both in Mint minus condition (You wouldn't expect them to be mint copies afterall!), not only would I have died and gone to heaven but I could also expect four figure sums for both couldn't I??????????????

Al

[45cellar]

I agree wholeheartedly. If one were to turn, I think you can forget about single figures and increase it nearly four figures cant you? Rare records command high prices for that very reason. Lets face it, if Frank Wilsons 'Do I Love You...' turned up in any volume, the price would plummet significantly.

I know what people are now going to say - Why are certain 'rare' records available in their hundreds and other much cheaper sounds so elusive by their very nature? Cant answer that one im afraid. I think that is something that has evolved through record dealers & colectors over the years.

My point is, truly rare records should command high prices, subject to their popularity of course. Another great UK example would be Billy Harners 'What About The Music' INSTRUMENTAL version. Only a handful of known copies exist on Kama Sutra, hence you would expect to pay big money if you were a serious collector.

So I would argue that if I went to my local car boot on Sunday and found a copy of the Volumes on Pama & an Al Kent on Mojo (with a sticky label of course!!), both in Mint minus condition (You wouldn't expect them to be mint copies afterall!), not only would I have died and gone to heaven but I could also expect four figure sums for both couldn't I??????????????

Al

PURELY OUT OF INTEREST THIS IMAGE

HAS BEEN CHANGED using XnView

--I made a Negative Image of a Stock Copy, could have been a nice White DEMO, Red A ?

This White DEMO doesn't exist.

Edited March 7, 2008 by 45cellar

[Alamo]

PURELY OUT OF INTEREST THIS IMAGE

HAS BEEN CHANGED using XnView

--I made a Negative Image of a Stock Copy, could have been a nice White DEMO, Red A ?

This White DEMO doesn't exist.

Ive got some nice UK Tamla Motown & Staeside Issues. Anychance you could....

Brilliant. Wouldn't they just of looked superb and highly desirable even without the red A!!

I dont suppose youve got a copy of Al Kent have you?

Al

[45cellar]

Ive got some nice UK Tamla Motown & Staeside Issues. Anychance you could....

Brilliant. Wouldn't they just of looked superb and highly desirable even without the red A!!

I dont suppose youve got a copy of Al Kent have you?

Al

Unfortunately I haven't, either on Track or Mojo.

Incidently, the Track Label started life as a White Label with Black writing,

I have a copy of Purple Haze with this Label Variation.

Only the Initial batch I believe were white.

As I haven't my copy to hand at the moment, here it is on PopSike

PopSike.com

I'm not sure if any other Track Stock Copies were anything other than Black Label.

Mojo obviously similar Black Label/White Writing.

Edited March 7, 2008 by 45cellar

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Unfortunately I haven't, either on Track or Mojo.

Incidently, the Track Label started life as a White Label with Black writing,

I have a copy of Purple Haze with this Label Variation.

Only the Initial batch I believe were white.

As I haven't my copy to hand at the moment, here it is on PopSike

PopSike.com

I'm not sure if any other Track Stock Copies were anything other than Black Label.

This was indeed the only 'stock' Track 45 to come out in this way and, as you say Roger, it was for the initial pressing only. By the time "Purple Haze" was in the charts. it was only available as the standard silver-print-on-black-label.

Of course, the later 'injection mould' Tracks have silver based 'labels', which I thought I'd mention before someone else does...

[Guest mobbsy]

theres copies of Tammie Lynn im gonna a run away from you on british polydor instead of mojo, mix up at the pressing plant!!????

[Guest]

Unfortunately I haven't, either on Track or Mojo.

Incidently, the Track Label started life as a White Label with Black writing,

I have a copy of Purple Haze with this Label Variation.

Only the Initial batch I believe were white.

As I haven't my copy to hand at the moment, here it is on PopSike

PopSike.com

I'm not sure if any other Track Stock Copies were anything other than Black Label.

Mojo obviously similar Black Label/White Writing.

I have above,but me label is reversed.

[Jerry Hipkiss]

theres copies of Tammie Lynn im gonna a run away from you on british polydor instead of mojo, mix up at the pressing plant!!????

Got a feeling those Polydor copies are actually Irish issues...

[Guest]

Polydor's rights to the Ric Tic catalogue "Timed Out" before release so they could put it on the market, although the release # was allocated.

It is seriously unlikely any copies "Test Press" or otherwise exist.

[Alamo]

Polydor's rights to the Ric Tic catalogue "Timed Out" before release so they could put it on the market, although the release # was allocated.

It is seriously unlikely any copies "Test Press" or otherwise exist.

Thanks John. Hopefully that ones put to bed then. Might be worth a mention of this if you update your UK Catalogue in the future.

Kind regards - A

[Guest]

Thanks John. Hopefully that ones put to bed then. Might be worth a mention of this if you update your UK Catalogue in the future.

Kind regards - A

Actually at the time of the listing, I was going to put "UNCONFIRMED" instead of a price.. Unconfirmed release is it's "value" in the future..unless