Any Signs Of A Youth Invasion

[Tomangoes]

Well come on theyve got the basic Northern beat, theyve got the basic Northern Dancers, theyve got to find a new direction. Duffy/Amy W etc.

Are we going to have/have already lots of curious young uns coming to venues to get more of this 'brand new scene' being invented (again).

Its got to be encouraged, and hopefully they will discover the real deal and not the manufactured stuff in the charts.

Just like in the 70s with Weakspot/Sharonnettes/Footsee etc, it got us interested and then we moved on, so dont knock em back when they turn up.

Ed

[Guest sadsam]

We need an injection of youth, look at all the photos of nighters nowdays, looks like a Derby & Joan club ---- SAM

[Guest Mrs Simsy]

We need an injection of youth, look at all the photos of nighters nowdays, looks like a Derby & Joan club ---- SAM

[Guest Paul]

...Are we going to have/have already lots of curious young uns coming to venues to get more of this 'brand new scene' being invented (again)...

Hello Ed,

I think the 'northern' scene is too odd and has too much emphasis on expensive records and oneupmanship to attract a significant number of younger people.

I don't see that Duffy / Adele / Amy Winehouse etc are influenced by 'northern' soul. It's a much more general retro influence which emcompasses everything from Stax and Motown to Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan and Dusty Springfield for example.

The wider retro-flavoured pop revival also incorporates rock, blues, country and rootsy folk influences. The interest is in the retro feel, not soul music in particular and certainly not the 'northern' scene.

I work with quite a few young artists and musicians and the retro influence is huge - from old music to old authentic instruments and vintage guitar amps etc - but they are more likely to listen to Stax, Motown and Chess hits than 'northern' soul.

The real reason for the retro influence is that younger people have been exposed to samples and are influenced by older bands - such as Free for example - who were themselves influenced by American blues. So it's a "second hand" influence in many cases.

It's a refreshing time for British pop music but it's wrong to link it with 'northern' soul.

Best regards,

Paul

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hello Ed,

I think the 'northern' scene is too odd and has too much emphasis on expensive records and oneupmanship to attract a significant number of younger people.

I don't see that Duffy / Adele / Amy Winehouse etc are influenced by 'northern' soul. It's a much more general retro influence which emcompasses everything from Stax and Motown to Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan and Dusty Springfield for example.

The wider retro-flavoured pop revival also incorporates rock, blues, country and rootsy folk influences. The interest is in the retro feel, not soul music in particular and certainly not the 'northern' scene.

I work with quite a few young artists and musicians and the retro influence is huge - from old music to old authentic instruments and vintage guitar amps etc - but they are more likely to listen to Stax, Motown and Chess hits than 'northern' soul.

The real reason for the retro influence is that younger people have been exposed to samples and are influenced by older bands - such as Free for example - who were themselves influenced by American blues. So it's a "second hand" influence in many cases.

It's a refreshing time for British pop music but it's wrong to link it with 'northern' soul.

Best regards,

Paul

But presumably there'll be a percentage of kids which will pick up on the elements they're hearing and want to investigate further?

I can imagine a few kids will keep reading about the Duffy/Dusty Springfield influence, then check out Dusty (like my 14 year old daughter has), hear Dusty sing "Bring Him Back" or "What's It Gonna Be" a couple of times and then get a thirst to hear even deeper stuff. That's how we all started off isn't it?

And I don't how anyone could hear Amy's magnificent "Tears Dry On Their Own" and not want to hear some vintage era Motown as well.

I think it can only be good for the long-term health of the scene. It's not a massive jump from "Mercy" to "Nothing Can Compare To You" IMHO.....

And there should be some youngsters coming through. They'll inject some new energy into the scene and dance faster LOL......

Ian D

[Guest sadsam]

Why is there a group of Northern Soul dancers in the Duffy vid, if the northern scence has no inferlence_{. SAM}

[Guest Stormin Si]

We get a decent number the younger crowd at the barnsley niters.

The music is as fresh as ever, it is the underground nature of the scene that has limited the number of younger soulies breaking onto the scene. I mean where the hell are people meant to pick up the flyers if they havent been to a niter?

Edited March 3, 2008 by Simon McMaster

[Guest]

There are loads of collectors of Northern Soul / Club Soul who are under 21 Young DJs playing it, especially at the Uni's. We have a number of "younger" customers who are very enthusiastic.

But like Paul said, they are into the music not the rarity aspect.

[Guest Mrs Simsy]

We get a decent number the younger crowd at the barnsley niters.

The music is as fresh as ever, it is the underground nature of the scene that has limited the number of younger soulies breaking onto the scene. I mean where the hell are people meant to pick up the flyers if they havent been to a niter?

I love the scenes underground nature though. If flyers were in bars/pubs etc then it wouldn't be underground.

I've noticed more younger people slowly getting into it. I'm 24 & have been going to nighters since i was 17 & my dad took me to the last ever Trentham Gardens in Stoke. I've always loved the music but i just couldn't get over the amount of 'old' (please excuse me-at 17 i thought people in their 40s were old! ) people dancing!

Theres a few people my age who go to the 100 club & i saw a fantastic dancer at Soul at the Mill recently & he couldn't have been older than about 20!

[Guest Paul]

But presumably there'll be a percentage of kids which will pick up on the elements they're hearing and want to investigate further?

I can imagine a few kids will keep reading about the Duffy/Dusty Springfield influence, then check out Dusty (like my 14 year old daughter has), hear Dusty sing "Bring Him Back" or "What's It Gonna Be" a couple of times and then get a thirst to hear even deeper stuff. That's how we all started off isn't it?

And I don't how anyone could hear Amy's magnificent "Tears Dry On Their Own" and not want to hear some vintage era Motown as well.

I think it can only be good for the long-term health of the scene. It's not a massive jump from "Mercy" to "Nothing Can Compare To You" IMHO.....

And there should be some youngsters coming through. They'll inject some new energy into the scene and dance faster LOL......

Ian D

Hello Ian,

I agreee but let's not forget that Dusty Springfield was a huge pop artist, not a 'northern soul' act. And "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" was a huge international pop/soul hit; it's unrealistic to claim it as a 'northern soul' thing.

The influence is retro, not 'northern soul', that's my point. I don't even class 'northern soul' as a type of music, it's a scene based on classic '60s music which already existed.

It isn't accurate to claim young artists are influenced by "the scene" because that isn't true. They are influenced by music which in some cases is the same (or similar) to music played on "the scene" but they have found it from listening to samples and older music which is more widely available.

For example, we've had another two new covers of "If I Could Only Be Sure" recently but it's because we sold the song via Paul weller's cover, not the Nolan Porter original.

I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

Best regards,

Paul

[Guest Stormin Si]

I love the scenes underground nature though. If flyers were in bars/pubs etc then it wouldn't be underground.

I've noticed more younger people slowly getting into it. I'm 24 & have been going to nighters since i was 17 & my dad took me to the last ever Trentham Gardens in Stoke. I've always loved the music but i just couldn't get over the amount of 'old' (please excuse me-at 17 i thought people in their 40s were old! ) people dancing!

Theres a few people my age who go to the 100 club & i saw a fantastic dancer at Soul at the Mill recently & he couldn't have been older than about 20!

Yeah i wouldnt change the underground part of the scene either, its what keeps it cool. But that is the reason i believe there wont be an "invasion" of youth, more of a "trickle" i suppose. Numbers are increasing thoug and long may it continue

[Citizen P]

I would agree that it's the RETRO aspect at the moment.

My 18 year old Daughter recently bought a "Northen Soul" bag and T shirt,

Why I asked when you don't listen to the music????

'S Retro innit? came the reply.

She buys clothes influenced by the Classic Audry Hepburn look, from shops in Manchesters Northen Quarter (no pun intended) that play the music in the background.

Soulies??????

I think not, but........it only takes a few to investigate further.

ATB

Tony

[Guest Mrs Simsy]

Yeah i wouldnt change the underground part of the scene either, its what keeps it cool. But that is the reason i believe there wont be an "invasion" of youth, more of a "trickle" i suppose. Numbers are increasing thoug and long may it continue

Indeed!

Long may the trickle continue!

[Guest malayka]

there are loads of youngsters in europe who just discovered the music...the soulkids basel for example are the youngest ones i know (16, 17, 17)...- you can meet lots of young people in bamberg ;-)

sometimes i do get the feeling that with "the rare soul" approach you do scare young people away or they feel exculded rather than included...

one good example, one friend of mine (19) just got into the soul thingy, he is very interested, "keen to learn" and has generally a very good taste in music; he approached a recorddealer/collector/dj about a record...and got an answer which was not only full of "scene terms" which he didn't understand but also written in such an arrogant, self-overesteemed way -it made him feel very insecure; he thought he has done something wrong (to ask about the record, price etc.)...this is NOT the way to treat young ones, is it?

M.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hello Ian,

I agreee but let's not forget that Dusty Springfield was a huge pop artist, not a 'northern soul' act. And "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" was a huge international pop/soul hit; it's unrealistic to claim it as a 'northern soul' thing.

The influence is retro, not 'northern soul', that's my point. I don't even class 'northern soul' as a type of music, it's a scene based on classic '60s music which already existed.

It isn't accurate to claim young artists are influenced by "the scene" because that isn't true. They are influenced by music which in some cases is the same (or similar) to music played on "the scene" but they have found it from listening to samples and older music which is more widely available.

For example, we've had another two new covers of "If I Could Only Be Sure" recently but it's because we sold the song via Paul weller's cover, not the Nolan Porter original.

I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

Best regards,

Paul

Do you work for a publisher Paul? It's difficult to keep up with people these days Lol.....

I agree with your take on the 'retro' thing which was more Amy vocal stylings and Mark Ronson's production which took in a number of disparate 50's and 60's influences. I dunno about Duffy though. It seems to me that they were always going the Northern Soul route. I think Bernard Butler must have listened to a lot of Northern throughout the years, as he seems to go for 'big' arrangements with orchestras plus they did recruit the dancers from here (Soul Source Forum) for the video last year, so someone, somewhere, had a game-plan I reckon.....

It's fantastic that it's No.1. I think this whole thing is like a breath of fresh air and can only be good for the scene if the kids aren't put off by the oldsters and maybe some entrenched attitudes. I think it would be nice for a wider age range to discover the beauty of Northern Soul for themselves. Could have done with a few more youngsters at Prestatyn for sure, not that I'm complaining or anything but it's always nice to see kids getting a taste for it.......

Who didja get the covers of !If I Could Only Be Sure" with?

Best,

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hello Ian,

I agreee but let's not forget that Dusty Springfield was a huge pop artist, not a 'northern soul' act. And "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" was a huge international pop/soul hit; it's unrealistic to claim it as a 'northern soul' thing.

The influence is retro, not 'northern soul', that's my point. I don't even class 'northern soul' as a type of music, it's a scene based on classic '60s music which already existed.

It isn't accurate to claim young artists are influenced by "the scene" because that isn't true. They are influenced by music which in some cases is the same (or similar) to music played on "the scene" but they have found it from listening to samples and older music which is more widely available.

For example, we've had another two new covers of "If I Could Only Be Sure" recently but it's because we sold the song via Paul weller's cover, not the Nolan Porter original.

I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

Best regards,

Paul

Do you work for a publisher Paul? It's difficult to keep up with people these days Lol.....

I agree with your take on the 'retro' thing which was more Amy vocal stylings and Mark Ronson's production which took in a number of disparate 50's and 60's influences. I dunno about Duffy though. It seems to me that they were always going the Northern Soul route. I think Bernard Butler must have listened to a lot of Northern throughout the years, as he seems to go for 'big' arrangements with orchestras plus they did recruit the dancers from here (Soul Source Forum) for the video last year, so someone, somewhere, had a game-plan I reckon.....

It's fantastic that it's No.1. I think this whole thing is like a breath of fresh air and can only be good for the scene if the kids aren't put off by the oldsters and maybe some entrenched attitudes. I think it would be nice for a wider age range to discover the beauty of Northern Soul for themselves. Could have done with a few more youngsters at Prestatyn for sure, not that I'm complaining or anything but it's always nice to see kids getting a taste for it.......

Who didja get the covers of !If I Could Only Be Sure" with?

Best,

Ian D

[Jules]

a few fresh young faces would be nice, but does anyone really want ns/rs to become the next big thing on radio 1 or mtv. the consequences would be horrific.

Discuss

[Modernsoulsucks]

'ere we go again!!!

What this scene needs is loads of young people aged 16 upwards with I assume from other ramblings on this site a more upfront contempory music content like House say. sorry make that soulful House.

It's delusional!!

The way forward is the bongo.

"The only down side of some of the spot's in the modern room and house of soul was the over use of the live percussion...... it's great for a one hour set with someone like Snowboy as he works with the guy on percussion well ..... But it seemed over used IMHO..... I wanted to hear Jamie mix the chooons and all I could hear was the bongos!"

The above is from the Prestatyn thread. I have seen live percussion used in the odd student/funk club back in early 90's but first time ever seen it in relation to "Northern", if somewhat tenuous in that it was in the modern room.

ROD

[KevH]

'ere we go again!!!

What this scene needs is loads of young people aged 16 upwards with I assume from other ramblings on this site a more upfront contempory music content like House say. sorry make that soulful House.

It's delusional!!

The way forward is the bongo.

"The only down side of some of the spot's in the modern room and house of soul was the over use of the live percussion...... it's great for a one hour set with someone like Snowboy as he works with the guy on percussion well ..... But it seemed over used IMHO..... I wanted to hear Jamie mix the chooons and all I could hear was the bongos!"

The above is from the Prestatyn thread. I have seen live percussion used in the odd student/funk club back in early 90's but first time ever seen it in relation to "Northern", if somewhat tenuous in that it was in the modern room.

ROD

i'v seen percussion used as well.

A Certain Ratio,Rock City Nottingham,1982 i think.Very good too.

[Guest Bogue]

Do you work for a publisher Paul? It's difficult to keep up with people these days Lol.....

I agree with your take on the 'retro' thing which was more Amy vocal stylings and Mark Ronson's production which took in a number of disparate 50's and 60's influences. I dunno about Duffy though. It seems to me that they were always going the Northern Soul route. I think Bernard Butler must have listened to a lot of Northern throughout the years, as he seems to go for 'big' arrangements with orchestras plus they did recruit the dancers from here (Soul Source Forum) for the video last year, so someone, somewhere, had a game-plan I reckon.....

It's fantastic that it's No.1. I think this whole thing is like a breath of fresh air and can only be good for the scene if the kids aren't put off by the oldsters and maybe some entrenched attitudes. I think it would be nice for a wider age range to discover the beauty of Northern Soul for themselves. Could have done with a few more youngsters at Prestatyn for sure, not that I'm complaining or anything but it's always nice to see kids getting a taste for it.......

Who didja get the covers of !If I Could Only Be Sure" with?

Best,

Ian D

I Think the majority of us would love to see the music carry on beyond our lifetime ! So maybe we could see it as a duty to the artists, whom never got the fame & money that their efforts deserved, to do all we can to see it handed down to another generation to appreciate ?

So perhaps next time there are some youngsters in your local soul night ( i say this because this is their most likely starting point) make an effort to mix with them, even if it appears at first that they may be larking around !

This very thing happened the Friday before last at a local charity night we did !

The venue was a town center bar & so there were a good few youngsters who still decided to pay the £2.50 entrance on the night & come in & investigate, as it was their usual choice of watering hole for a Friday.

There was a group of Polish boys & girls who literaly danced most of the night from the off !

There was also a group of about 8 lads who came in half way through the night. They were ,like most of their age, having a good few drinks & two of them decided to venture on to the dance floor !

Now it would have been very easy to have come to the conclusion, due to their style of dancing, that they were just taking the p out of us old gits (just like we probably did at their age if you ended up somewhere with an older cliental, lets not forget !!)

But the 'Worcestershire Soul Crew' are a really friendly bunch of people, & rather than get all uptight about it 2 of the girls from the Crew decided to teach these lads how to dance properly ! & not content with that, they bullied the remaining 6 lads on to the floor & did the same with them !

They hardly left the floor afterwards & we even had to fire up the music again for one more stomper after we had finished ! so that the bar owner could get them to go home !

The night itself was a bit of a personal stressor, mainly due to equipment problems, but i remember one moment where i thought to myself "I don't care ! It was worth it if not just for this !" The Sweet Things was the record ! I cued in those imortal opening bars & then looked up to see almost a dozen young people alongside the older generation giving it their all as the brass kicked in, & i know it sounds corny, but i felt a real warm glow !

I was talking with one of the lads at the end, & thanked them for adding to the funds & for staying & participating in the night. His reply ? (F*** off Grandad !) No seriously , "We came because we like the music & we saw it advertised, i like all sorts of music but i grew up with a lot of this being played by my parents & still have a soft spot for it "

So perhaps there is hope ?

I think the answer is; don't push it on them to heavily, but if they show a bit of entusiasm then give them a chance & don't expect them to know all the dance routines & special rules ! Just let them hear the music & have a good time to it in their own way.

The biggest sin, imo, is to stop them ever getting to hear the music because of jealousy of their youth combined with rules & ethics that maybe belong now in the past.

I even had a Dj groupie on the night ! A pretty young Polish girl, could have been no older than 20 ! I thought she wanted a request & couldn't understand what she was asking for so i told her to write it down. But she finally got me to understand that she just wanted to talk with me about liking soul music. At which point i got all flustered & missed my next cue !

[Marc Forrest]

New young folks into the music/digging the music at allnighters/soulclubs ? Yes, definitely. But for a deep and long journey or just "for the joy of the moment" ? Sadly though but for several reasons I have to believe the latter is right. But still fine with me although I would prefer it the other way round much more obviously.

By the way, its (again) Keb Darge dancing in this video...shown sadly though only from the back

Marc

[Ian Dewhirst]

I Think the majority of us would love to see the music carry on beyond our lifetime ! So maybe we could see it as a duty to the artists, whom never got the fame & money that their efforts deserved, to do all we can to see it handed down to another generation to appreciate ?

So perhaps next time there are some youngsters in your local soul night ( i say this because this is their most likely starting point) make an effort to mix with them, even if it appears at first that they may be larking around !

This very thing happened the Friday before last at a local charity night we did !

The venue was a town center bar & so there were a good few youngsters who still decided to pay the £2.50 entrance on the night & come in & investigate, as it was their usual choice of watering hole for a Friday.

There was a group of Polish boys & girls who literaly danced most of the night from the off !

There was also a group of about 8 lads who came in half way through the night. They were ,like most of their age, having a good few drinks & two of them decided to venture on to the dance floor !

Now it would have been very easy to have come to the conclusion, due to their style of dancing, that they were just taking the p out of us old gits (just like we probably did at their age if you ended up somewhere with an older cliental, lets not forget !!)

But the 'Worcestershire Soul Crew' are a really friendly bunch of people, & rather than get all uptight about it 2 of the girls from the Crew decided to teach these lads how to dance properly ! & not content with that, they bullied the remaining 6 lads on to the floor & did the same with them !

They hardly left the floor afterwards & we even had to fire up the music again for one more stomper after we had finished ! so that the bar owner could get them to go home !

The night itself was a bit of a personal stressor, mainly due to equipment problems, but i remember one moment where i thought to myself "I don't care ! It was worth it if not just for this !" The Sweet Things was the record ! I cued in those imortal opening bars & then looked up to see almost a dozen young people alongside the older generation giving it their all as the brass kicked in, & i know it sounds corny, but i felt a real warm glow !

I was talking with one of the lads at the end, & thanked them for adding to the funds & for staying & participating in the night. His reply ? (F*** off Grandad !) No seriously , "We came because we like the music & we saw it advertised, i like all sorts of music but i grew up with a lot of this being played by my parents & still have a soft spot for it "

So perhaps there is hope ?

I think the answer is; don't push it on them to heavily, but if they show a bit of entusiasm then give them a chance & don't expect them to know all the dance routines & special rules ! Just let them hear the music & have a good time to it in their own way.

The biggest sin, imo, is to stop them ever getting to hear the music because of jealousy of their youth combined with rules & ethics that maybe belong now in the past.

I even had a Dj groupie on the night ! A pretty young Polish girl, could have been no older than 20 ! I thought she wanted a request & couldn't understand what she was asking for so i told her to write it down. But she finally got me to understand that she just wanted to talk with me about liking soul music. At which point i got all flustered & missed my next cue !

Ha. Serves you right LOL.....

I think the difference between when many of us got into Northern, was that the age gap wasn't so huge. The people who went to the Wheel were only a few years older so it was still very much a cool youth thing back then. Whereas, now the age differential is 20-30+ years.

I go to some gigs where the kids really dress-up and dance to lots of R'n'B and Rock N' Roll and the energy is great - the last one I went to was Gaz's Rocking Blues in Wardour Street and it was GREAT, GREAT, GREAT! So much energy and enthusiam.

The first all-nighter at the Rocket in London was a good example of plenty of new kids (around 1500 I think) coming along but the atmosphere dropped appreciably because of the music policy IMO. That was an opportunity missed.

I've played a couple of Motown/60's nights to a none Northern crowd which were great. It's a question of getting the balance right as always.....

Ian D

[Guest]

Ha. Serves you right LOL.....

I think the difference between when many of us got into Northern, was that the age gap wasn't so huge. The people who went to the Wheel were only a few years older so it was still very much a cool youth thing back then. Whereas, now the age differential is 20-30+ years.

I go to some gigs where the kids really dress-up and dance to lots of R'n'B and Rock N' Roll and the energy is great - the last one I went to was Gaz's Rocking Blues in Wardour Street and it was GREAT, GREAT, GREAT! So much energy and enthusiam.

The first all-nighter at the Rocket in London was a good example of plenty of new kids (around 1500 I think) coming along but the atmosphere dropped appreciably because of the music policy IMO. That was an opportunity missed.

I've played a couple of Motown/60's nights to a none Northern crowd which were great. It's a question of getting the balance right as always.....

Ian D

Were these the " Hooray Henrys " that you waxed so lyrical about , when we were at the WG farewell last year ? .......

Malc Burton

[Guest Paul]

Do you work for a publisher Paul? It's difficult to keep up with people these days Lol.....

.....Who didja get the covers of !If I Could Only Be Sure" with?

Best,

Ian D

Hello again Ian,

Yes, I work for Millbrand Music who own a few catalogues and act as sub-publishers for a number of American catalogues. We own or control quite a lot of soul songs and have done sync deals for TV and movies. You can find a few details at www.millbrand.com or at www.myspace.com/millbrand

I also run the Selecta and Shotgun labels and we're launching a third label for younger British artists. We have the advantage of controlling some old songs so there's some two-way traffic sometimes.

One of our artists has just cut a new version of "If I Could Only Be Sure" and another unsigned band cut a version last year - no doubt influenced by Paul Weller's version. A band called Real Life from Coventry have cut a version of "Grooving At The Go-Go" which we publish in EU territories. They are negotiating a major deal and plan to have an album released later this year.

It's nice that many artists are studying classic sounds, styles and material - not just soul and pop but blues, country, jazz and folk etc. I have a cousin who makes vintage custom guitars and valve-amps for bands and he can't keep up with the demand. There's a big retro movement at the moment and it will be interesting to see how things develop.

Best regards,

Paul

[Speedlimit]

Well come on theyve got the basic Northern beat, theyve got the basic Northern Dancers, theyve got to find a new direction. Duffy/Amy W etc.

Are we going to have/have already lots of curious young uns coming to venues to get more of this 'brand new scene' being invented (again).

Its got to be encouraged, and hopefully they will discover the real deal and not the manufactured stuff in the charts.

Just like in the 70s with Weakspot/Sharonnettes/Footsee etc, it got us interested and then we moved on, so dont knock em back when they turn up.

Ed

youngster's on the scene should be encouraged my wife's two kids have been going for a while now a few of you may know them brett smith a young upcoming d.j . with a great taste for the music recently d.j'd at rugby and natalie smith probably the youngest to attend a soul nite now 14 first went when she was 12 she loves dancing and even got a mention in reg's searching for soul book weve alway's encouraged them to go and it's their choice , we don't and never have pressured them to go they hear the sounds at home and love it .so let's embrace the youngster's and take them under our wing's , as we where there age once . if this is approached with the right attitude the scene could be buzzing with youngster;s in year's to come .

[Guest Carl Dixon]

I believe there is a marriage taking place between new and up coming artists/producers and old school production techniques. I feel it will stimulate the market and create new songs, which I think is imperative along with a deviation in styles possibly. I know for sure producers are being contacted by current groups for collaboration purposes where they want a certain feel or groove on their songs. There are those who do not like the modern trends in musical production and computer manipulation and I see them opting for the live music scenario in the studio with overdubs as a compromise. But tracks like 'Hip Teens', 'Mercy' 'Doing it right (The Go Team) all have retro soul elements in and I do not see it ending. Even with my personal session I am striving for real instruments and the groove from a studio environment where musicians collaborate for the better of the track.

Listen to the opening of this Go Team track and 1' 48" in:

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=p_LoSqyNmeo

It may be commercial, but to see kids like this using some traditional instruments and a xylophone is terrific. Plus, those hand claps at the end. Great stuff. And somewhere along the line there is a Philly producer involved (which I need to clarify exactly how). So by supporting this trend it is likely to encourage the following of more retro soul phenomena's which can't be bad news!

Edited March 4, 2008 by Carl Dixon

[Kevinkent]

Hello Ian,

I agreee but let's not forget that Dusty Springfield was a huge pop artist, not a 'northern soul' act. And "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" was a huge international pop/soul hit; it's unrealistic to claim it as a 'northern soul' thing.

The influence is retro, not 'northern soul', that's my point. I don't even class 'northern soul' as a type of music, it's a scene based on classic '60s music which already existed.

It isn't accurate to claim young artists are influenced by "the scene" because that isn't true. They are influenced by music which in some cases is the same (or similar) to music played on "the scene" but they have found it from listening to samples and older music which is more widely available.

For example, we've had another two new covers of "If I Could Only Be Sure" recently but it's because we sold the song via Paul weller's cover, not the Nolan Porter original.

I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

Best regards,

Paul

Hi Paul,

I've read that Duffy was "influenced" by her Northern Soulie parents, and let's not forget how hugely instrumental Dusty Springfield was in getting USA soul artists to the UK in the 60's.

I'm generally of the opinion that the only difference between a "Northern" sound and many "Pop" sounds, is success -or the lack of it. Our scene leans towards the lesser known underdog. But what if those artists had been succesful? Surely they were all striving for popularity and I don't think any artist should instantly be transferred to another genre of music once they have achieved this.

It's always a tough one to call, and an emotive subject for so many of us.

I do like your description of Northern Soul as not a type of music but as a scene. Considering all the variances of music played within the scene your description seems the most apt.

Trouble is - how do I now describe "Northern Soul" to an inquisitive youngster? It was difficult enough trying to describe the music! I can see it now - "Well, is Duffy Northern Soul then?"... ."er..it sort of depends where it's being played"

Respect

Kev

[Ian Dewhirst]

Were these the " Hooray Henrys " that you waxed so lyrical about , when we were at the WG farewell last year ? .......

Malc Burton

Haha LOL. Yes, as a matter of fact they were. Very enthusiastic young hoorays they were too. Very up for just about anything and refreshing to play to. They loved Willie Tee and insisted I play it again to round off the set. The innocence of youth.......

Ian D

[Guest Paul]

Hello Kev,

You're right, there's sometimes little difference between a good soul record and a good pop record - apart from the vocals in most cases ...and the sales figures.

We have far too many categories and some of them describe scenes rather than musical genres - such as 'northern' soul and 'modern' soul for example, both of which are very misleading to the general public.

Next time a youngster asks you to describe 'northern' soul, just tell them it's EXPENSIVE.

Best regards,

Paul

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

It's not a massive jump from "Mercy" to "Nothing Can Compare To You"

...not a massive jump, no. More like a quantum leap

In 6 months time "Mercy" will be just another old hit. and Duffy will have found another musical wagon to hitch her 'star' to. If anyone's seeing an all-out NS revival among the young, coming off the back of one almost-novelty pop hit - which, basically, is all that "Mercy" is - then I have these words of wisdom for you....

...shoulda gone to Specsavers...

[Chalky]

The likes of Mercy have nothing to do with Northern and are far removed from the northern I've been listening to over 20 years. The only thing in common is the northern dancers...

I've seen little influx of youngsters to the scene and I think we are highly unlikely to as well in sufficient numbers to continue the scene...the odd venue that do have yopungsters are the exception rather than the rule and many of those do not travel. why on earth would they want to go out with 400 folk old enough to be their mums dads and in some cases grand parents

[Chalky]

...not a massive jump, no. More like a quantum leap

...shoulda gone to Specsavers...

how can you compare the two records

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

how can you compare the two records

...my point excatly...

[Modernsoulsucks]

I've seen little influx of youngsters to the scene and I think we are highly unlikely to as well in sufficient numbers to continue the scene...the odd venue that do have yopungsters are the exception rather than the rule and many of those do not travel. why on earth would they want to go out with 400 folk old enough to be their mums dads and in some cases grand parents

I see you have completely ignored my comment about the magic lure of the bongo!!

ROD

[Chalky]

I see you have completely ignored my comment about the magic lure of the bongo!!

ROD

somehow Rod I totally missed it rather than ignored it

[Guest rachel]

I see you have completely ignored my comment about the magic lure of the bongo!!

ROD

I thought you said bingo!

Still waiting for the 'invasion' that people said was going to happen after the KFC ads...

[Guest]

How old do u have to be to join the YOUTH INVASION

[Modernsoulsucks]

I thought you said bingo!

Still waiting for the 'invasion' that people said was going to happen after the KFC ads...

Anyone who had the misfortune to go to the Whalley Brass Band Club would have heard my attempts to introduce bingo to liven things up and attract the more active pensioner. Unfortunately due to backbiting politics or Geoff Buckley as he is known locally I was thwarted in this regard. Geoff was OK with bingo in between the dj sets but not so keen with bingo instead of his set.

It's this dog in the manger attitude that will lead to the demise of the scene. Geoff didn't have much time for my brother-in-law's Matt Munro tribute act either which I felt would have been an introduction to NS in the same way as is being suggested for Ms Duffy.

ROD

Edited March 4, 2008 by modernsoulsucks

[Chalky]

Anyone who had the misfortune to go to the Whalley Brass Band Club would have heard my attempts to introduce bingo to liven things up and attract the more active pensioner. Unfortunately due to backbiting politics or Geoff Buckley as he is known locally I was thwarted in this regard. Geoff was OK with bingo in between the dj sets but not so keen with bingo instead of his set.

It's this dog in the manger attitude that will lead to the demise of the scene. Geoff didn't have much time for my brother-in-law's Matt Munro tribute act either which I felt would have been an introduction to NS in the same way as is being suggested for Ms Duffy.

ROD

[Ian Dewhirst]

...not a massive jump, no. More like a quantum leap

In 6 months time "Mercy" will be just another old hit. and Duffy will have found another musical wagon to hitch her 'star' to. If anyone's seeing an all-out NS revival among the young, coming off the back of one almost-novelty pop hit - which, basically, is all that "Mercy" is - then I have these words of wisdom for you....

...shoulda gone to Specsavers...

I wouldn't go that far Tony. The Isley Brothers had a hit with "This Old Heart Of Mine" before they found another musical wagon to hitch their stars to, but it got me and my mates into Motown and then Northern.

Plus the fact that Amy Winehouse has had the biggest selling album of the last 15 months with a real 60's sensibility and Duffy's been No1 for the last 2 weeks with the UK's biggest-selling single with a real 60's sensibility, I think is pointing out that people like the sound.

So, I don't think it's a quantum leap but a very logical assumption that people may well eventually delve into the deeper stuff. That's generally what happens in my experience. We should be encouraging it and broadening their listening experiences and if that means encouraging Zavvi to stock up on their Northern Soul back-cat then surely that's a good thing innit? I just went to the old megastore yesterday and shock horror, the Northern Soul section was MASSIVE plus they took the back cover of Q to advertise it! Plenty of your stuff in there too.

However, unfortunately, I do in fact go to Specsavers these days, so you could be right LOL.....

Ian D

[Ficklefingers]

Why is there a group of Northern Soul dancers in the Duffy vid, if the northern scence has no inferlence_{. SAM}

To add to that fact - who & what has been Duffy's 'Warm-Up' act on her recent outings ??

I'LL TELL THEE.. A certain young DJ from Northern Ireland... Spinning his 'Crossover' 45's!!!!!!! Goes under his name: LIAM

And can this lad spin some discs - certainly got 'taste', and when I looked thru the box he had with him at the recent Rugby Anniv. A/N... IT WAS ALL CLASS!

[Deegee]

To add to that fact - who & what has been Duffy's 'Warm-Up' act on her recent outings ??

I'LL TELL THEE.. A certain young DJ from Northern Ireland... Spinning his 'Crossover' 45's!!!!!!! Goes under his name: LIAM

And can this lad spin some discs - certainly got 'taste', and when I looked thru the box he had with him at the recent Rugby Anniv. A/N... IT WAS ALL CLASS!

Youre not wrong fickle! He's on tour with her as a dancer and asked if he could dj beforehand to the uneducated masses! Good for him I say. Also young Brett may have got into it through his parents but has a style of his own. We should be encouraging them.

[good angel]

We get a decent number the younger crowd at the barnsley niters.

The music is as fresh as ever, it is the underground nature of the scene that has limited the number of younger soulies breaking onto the scene. I mean where the hell are people meant to pick up the flyers if they havent been to a niter?

Simon,

You have got a good nighter there mate,and yes you do get a good young crowd in,and nice to see,

About flyers there was not many flyers years ago,you had to look in Blues&Soul or Black Echoes,

And thanks for putting on Barnsley nighter,Its a cracker

Kev

[Young Brett]

Hi there, my names Brett Smith I'm 17 and have recently DJ'd at Rugby, Wellingborogh & the Lel.

i feel that duffy and amy are no influence to the scene at all. there style of music is completely different to the soul music that is played at soul do's. if you were to play duffy - mercy then say jump to Nicole Willis and the soul investigators - If this aint love ( may not be the best example but i like the track ) they would be able to hear the simalarity between the two. but how can you go from this style of music to a very 60's track e.g ( Jimmy robins - I can't please you or Bobby Bland - shoes) (Again may not be the best example but i like them). i have tried with alot of my mates throughout school and college and all of them can never get into the mood to listen to more or look into the scene itself after i've played a track off my phone or ipod. i feel the way to get the younger generation of people onto the scene is by merely playing a mixture of different types of soul from the 60's through to the modern 70's & 80's. they can relate to the much newer stuff and this will lead them into a different direction. if they like a certain track or a certain band of the music e.g 60's or modern, then this is a start but how can the original "soulies" get the younger generation into this style of music? that is the question. I was lucky, I was played all types of the northern soul music from a very early age by my parents, and now i have come to the age that i have my own collection and i can drive to certain venues and appreciate the rariety of the music.

A quick add about the duffy - mercy track...she did add on radio 1 during her interview that the dancers she had in the back-ground of her music video where not fans of the soul music, neither did they know how to dance to the type of music before they where introduced to "soul music" itself. (this is according to the radio interview)

[Kevinkent]

Hi there, my names Brett Smith I'm 17 and have recently DJ'd at Rugby, Wellingborogh & the Lel.

i feel that duffy and amy are no influence to the scene at all. there style of music is completely different to the soul music that is played at soul do's. if you were to play duffy - mercy then say jump to Nicole Willis and the soul investigators - If this aint love ( may not be the best example but i like the track ) they would be able to hear the simalarity between the two. but how can you go from this style of music to a very 60's track e.g ( Jimmy robins - I can't please you or Bobby Bland - shoes) (Again may not be the best example but i like them). i have tried with alot of my mates throughout school and college and all of them can never get into the mood to listen to more or look into the scene itself after i've played a track off my phone or ipod. i feel the way to get the younger generation of people onto the scene is by merely playing a mixture of different types of soul from the 60's through to the modern 70's & 80's. they can relate to the much newer stuff and this will lead them into a different direction. if they like a certain track or a certain band of the music e.g 60's or modern, then this is a start but how can the original "soulies" get the younger generation into this style of music? that is the question. I was lucky, I was played all types of the northern soul music from a very early age by my parents, and now i have come to the age that i have my own collection and i can drive to certain venues and appreciate the rariety of the music.

A quick add about the duffy - mercy track...she did add on radio 1 during her interview that the dancers she had in the back-ground of her music video where not fans of the soul music, neither did they know how to dance to the type of music before they where introduced to "soul music" itself. (this is according to the radio interview)

Hi Brett,

Nice to hear of a youngster cutting his teeth on the scene.

Just a quick correction re the Duffy interview. Featured dancers are guys on the scene - Liam, Dave(?) Walker, Trickster, Keb Darge, who were auditioned following a shout on this site.

Apparently there were some "pro" dancers used to fill the frame and the guys off the scene had to teach 'em how to dance Northern before the shoot. That could be where the confusion lies.

-Kev.

Edited March 4, 2008 by KevinKent

[Briles]

Had a nice lady ring twice today enquiring about the next Warwick Night. She said the Duffy track got her and 3 mates think about Northern Soul, then luckily she spotted our flyer in the Club on another night out. She is intrigued by the dancing, obviously from the Duffy video. So we have 4 Nurses from our medical pactice coming, and I've taken the trouble of doing CD's and playlist to sample.

We also have a few young 'uns at WSC, all sons and daughters and regulars at our do's, but also now wanting to travel, so have a few coming to Banbury on Saturday, and they'll be up dancing. The more exposure Duffy or Amy can give our scene the better chance it has of surviving us imo.

Best, Dave.

[Ficklefingers]

Youre not wrong fickle! He's on tour with her as a dancer and asked if he could dj beforehand to the uneducated masses! Good for him I say. Also young Brett may have got into it through his parents but has a style of his own. We should be encouraging them.

Dead Right we should be encouraging them, Ganche... , Embracing them, even! Doing anything and everything within our means to fuel their enthusiasm soon as it walks thru the door!! (I, for one, would gladly offer up -free of any fees, of course, all of my free time to any of the 'new' young ladies that need encouragement at it's most extreme - and provide them with the benefit of my experience )

Fingers..

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

The Isley Brothers had a hit with "This Old Heart Of Mine" before they found another musical wagon to hitch their stars to, but it got me and my mates into Motown and then Northern.

Sorry, mate, but that argument doesn't work for me. For the Isleys, TOHOM was not an isolated one off - it was a record that reflected the then-current sounds of popular American black music (or, at least one of its many strands). Their next few records were in a similar vein, as you well know. They were not an attempt to rekindle the sound of the past, like the Duffy record purports to be - and although TOHOM probably was a jumping off point for many future Northern collectors, it did not start the movement towards NS on its own.

I really don't think that Keb, Liam et al dancing in a video of a fairly mediocre, uptempo pop record is going to provide the impetus for the influx of hundreds of future northern collectors in the way that Motown did. Maybe a handful of people will hear it and go, "oh yes it sounds like one of those old Northern Soul Records", maybe a handful of that handful will be intrigued enough to buy a NS compilation, and maybe a handful of that handful will want to take their interest a bit further, and attend a few dances.

But I really do think that a "handful of a handful of a handful" is all we're talking here - not enough to - not enough to guarantee that NS is going to live on in perpetuity after we've all met our maker. And the gap between Duffy and the Velvet Satins is of Grand Canyonesque proportions (and getting wider) as far as I'm concerned....

[Tabs]

So we have 4 youing Nurses from our medical pactice coming,

Best, Dave.

Excellent promotional technique Dave

[Bigsoulman]

I would welcome them with open arms...but as long as they don't bring the loutish behavior with them then that's fine by me, we need them to come in and have look and hopefully carry it on, as I have seen in recent months especially in my neck of the woods more and more new faces just coming in and being pleased by what they have seen AND coming back , but again a word of caution, at a recent Xmas night out with workmates I was dragged along to a very well known Edinburgh nite spot and was appalled by the endless mayhem that went on in the club, fight after fight, I've seen some battles in the clubs in the 60ts but nothing to compare with this , here's hoping though

Lenny