The Second Most Important Venue......revised

[Soulsmith]

Assuming that we can all agree Wigan was the most important venue to the scene, what was the second most important venue?

I've revised the poll to include Stafford & a few others

[Guest]

Assuming that we can all agree Wigan was the most important venue to the scene, what was the second most important venue?

I've revised the poll to include Stafford & a few others

You could have just edited the last poll Col,but thanks for additions

[Tabs]

And still no Yate

[martynthejazz]

And still no Yate

You cant please everyone, ha. carefull otherwise he will lock this one also, ha. just pick one from the list.... ha

[Guest Simon]

I never went but it seems fairly obvious to me from reading & hearing stories from hundreds of people that Blackpool Mecca is very close to Wigan Casino as the most important NS venue.

From the list the one that would have probably been most my kind of thing would have been Stafford but it doesn't appear to have had the stature of BM imo.

Simon

[Chalky]

in essence it's a futile exercise, for one we can never agree on anything, and two when you grew up and where you went would have some bearing on what was most the important venues to any one person.

[Guest Simon]

in essence it's a futile exercise, for one we can never agree on anything, and two when you grew up and where you went would have some bearing on what was most the important venues to any one person.

I agree Chalky it is kinda futile, i also fear people will vote for their favourite rather than the venue that ACTUALLY had the most impact, if it's taken on column inches & press written then surely it must be BM.

Simon

[Guest Gavin Page]

Edited March 1, 2008 by Gavin Page

[Pauldonnelly]

as a venue full of atmosphere the Torch could give Station Rd a lesson or two, as for a venue that before The Casino opend was making a valued contribution musically to the UK's underground soul scene it has to be the Mecca, indeed when the Casino went down the road off 100mph whatever the artist etc the Mecca seized upon the wonderful material that was coming out of Chicago and Detroit and to a lessor degree New York circa 1974.

With regard to one venue that changed 1000's of lives, Wigan no contest.

[Chalky]

I agree Chalky it is kinda futile, i also fear people will vote for their favourite rather than the venue that ACTUALLY had the most impact, if it's taken on column inches & press written then surely it must be BM.

Simon

There'll be many who went to Torch and maybe the Wheel who will disagree. There's many who went to the Mecca who used to look down on Wigan. Don't think we will ever agree on what was the 1st most important venue let alone the 2nd

[Harry Crosby]

as a venue full of atmosphere the Torch could give Station Rd a lesson or two, as for a venue that before The Casino opend was making a valued contribution musically to the UK's underground soul scene it has to be the Mecca, indeed when the Casino went down the road off 100mph whatever the artist etc the Mecca seized upon the wonderful material that was coming out of Chicago and Detroit and to a lessor degree New York circa 1974.

With regard to one venue that changed 1000's of lives, Wigan no contest.

If as you say wigan was the most important, then for me allthough i was not a regular at stafford thats the one for me, as after the closure of wc, they did a great job carrying it on, after what was such a huge loss to the scene, as of course did the 100 club. but as chalky says this poll will be influenced by those who regularly attended these venues

[Guest Simon]

If you ask the man on the street who knows zilch about NS they will still have heard of Wigan Casino, that makes it undoubtably the no. 1 as it has got it's name out there to all & sundry, as fantastic as they are most people will not have heard of Stafford, Yate etc. there are people however who have heard of BM, that to me says it's influence has spread far & wide.

Simon

[ImberBoy]

This is very interesting, I wish that I had been to all of the venues to give a real "I was there opinion" but I was not.

I went to Blackpool Mecca as a "tourist" I would never claim to have been a regular, scared the crap out of me to be honest! The same with Wigan Casino, I went at such a young age and only three times not ever being fully aware of what was being played and certainly not being part of the inner circle in fact I think I may have been quite "Square".

Historically, if that's the right word it has to be The Torch - The Casino - The Mecca, but that will be argued by those who where realy there?

Stafford gets the lions share of the credit but wasn't it Richard Serling who was playing "That Sound" during the last casino days??

After the demise of the Northernsoul Scene the second wave took over, Bradford was for me where I became aware of the complexities and the beauty of our music.

The 100 Club was a long way off both geographically and quality but as we all know that changed.

Yate was spoken about as a "Big Boy" venue and again I wished I gone.

I have just had a another look at the list and I am quite surprised that "Wallies" in Hull doesn't feature? I was a regular there, well known in fact! The dancing was ace and the birds were not too fussy, Wallies gets my vote.

[Chalky]

If you ask the man on the street who knows zilch about NS they will still have heard of Wigan Casino, that makes it undoubtably the no. 1 as it has got it's name out there to all & sundry, as fantastic as they are most people will not have heard of Stafford, Yate etc. there are people however who have heard of BM, that to me says it's influence has spread far & wide.

Simon

But if the man in the street knows about these venues then there's an aspect of commercialisation about these venues. But it's not about the man in the street, it's about the 100's of soulies who's life was influenced by Northern Soul/Rare Soul or whatever tag you wish to give it. The extent of the influence of these venues is as I said gonna be determined by what era any particular person grew up and where they went, not by column inches.

[De-to]

sorry to be a pain,but im voting for my local mid 70s all-nighter st ives,cambs as i guess imo a lot would, ,for me and my mates it was wigan one week then st ives the next week etc etc,

[Guest Simon]

But if the man in the street knows about these venues then there's an aspect of commercialisation about these venues. But it's not about the man in the street, it's about the 100's of soulies who's life was influenced by Northern Soul/Rare Soul or whatever tag you wish to give it. The extent of the influence of these venues is as I said gonna be determined by what era any particular person grew up and where they went, not by column inches.

That's the trick though Chalky to be commercial but still retain your greatness & credibility, it's all very well playing some nice tunes but if only 5 people turn up who cares.

Some of the best bands of all time have done this, Four Tops, Miracles, The Jam, Madness, Rolling Stones, Beatles etc. all massive names but retained their credibility & high level of recordings.

To make venues the most important their name has to have travelled past a small clique of Soulies imo.

Simon

[ImberBoy]

Can't see The Imber Village Soul Club? Why????????????

[Chalky]

That's the trick though Chalky to be commercial but still retain your greatness & credibility, it's all very well playing some nice tunes but if only 5 people turn up who cares.

To make venues the most important their name has to have travelled past a small clique of Soulies imo.

Simon

But how do you return your credibility when you go commercial, has it been done without ridicule and being looked down upon by soulies? The whole point of NS was it was an underground scene and some venues went to far with the commercialisation, (some would definately say Wigan did for a period) and therefore proabably lose some of the credibility gained during previous years?

Anyway I'm off out now, have a good weekend whatever you do and where you go!!

[ImberBoy]

But how do you return your credibility when you go commercial, has it been done without ridicule and being looked down upon by soulies? The whole point of NS was it was an underground scene and some venues went to far with the commercialisation, (some would definately say Wigan did for a period) and therefore proabably lose some of the credibility gained during previous years?

Anyway I'm off out now, have a good weekend whatever you do and where you go!!

Gonna have to play the agent provocateur here.... Surely all venue promoters want "bums on seats"? Ergo all venues are commercial?

[ImberBoy]

Chris Burton, Ian Levine, Richard Serling, Russ Winstanley, Kev Roberts..... Not too sure if these guys would be happy to make a loss for the sake of "underground".

Watched Little Britain last night, well a documentary on them, the press was slating them because of merchandising, weren't "Soul Patches" merchandising?

No one (I think?) sets out to make a loss, commercial, is there a point when this becomes unacceptable?

I have a large collection of Dave Rimmer dolls and posters.

[Kevinkent]

No one (I think?) sets out to make a loss, commercial, is there a point when this becomes unacceptable?

I have a large collection of Dave Rimmer dolls and posters.

[Guest sadsam]

Got to be a big shout for ST IVES more important than some on the list ---------Sam

[Soulsmith]

And still no Yate

I did think about putting Yate in, but Yate was no more important that say Peterborough, Coalville etc.

To include them all would have sort of diluted the poll.

[Soulsmith]

in essence it's a futile exercise,

Sounds a bit harsh. I thought it was quite interesting.

Maybe I should get out a bit more often?

[ImberBoy]

Sounds a bit harsh. I thought it was quite interesting.

Maybe I should get out a bit more often?

Soulsmith, you can come to Imber with me

[bri phill]

For the qualty of tunes and atmosphere The Twisted Wheel was miles ahead IMHO,I don't think you can ever beat a basement club when it comes to atmosphere,big ballrooms can't match up.Don't judge it by the Wheel now,it was on two floors and all the basement was a dance floor apart from small stage and DJ area.With 600plus crammed in from allover the country,400 dancing and only the occasional sub standard tune nothing comes close.

I also think it was the most important because it set the standard and spawned the idea of setting up allniters ellswhere.The Torch did a great job in following and IMO is the second most important club,The Cats another great club for quality of tunes.

The Mecca and The Casino although both credible contenders would have struggled to get of the ground if the Wheel would have still been open.

Regards Brian

[Guest]

Well of course, Ive got to say Stafford but I never sent to Wigan as I was far far too young for that!!

[Guest gordon russell]

only the first two years of wigan were any good in my view......anyway what about the CATACOMBS,VA-VA'S and YATE. I went to wigan loads and loads,but in retrospect in was not as good as the TORCH by a country mile.

[Guest gordon russell]

For the qualty of tunes and atmosphere The Twisted Wheel was miles ahead IMHO,I don't think you can ever beat a basement club when it comes to atmosphere,big ballrooms can't match up.Don't judge it by the Wheel now,it was on two floors and all the basement was a dance floor apart from small stage and DJ area.With 600plus crammed in from allover the country,400 dancing and only the occasional sub standard tune nothing comes close.

I also think it was the most important because it set the standard and spawned the idea of setting up allniters ellswhere.The Torch did a great job in following and IMO is the second most important club,The Cats another great club for quality of tunes.

The Mecca and The Casino although both credible contenders would have struggled to get of the ground if the Wheel would have still been open.

Regards Brian

great post......what a lot of folk who read these threads and mabye didn't go to these places,when I first walked into the dark dingy TORCH the sheer atmosphere created,that really can only be created in smallish crammed club is what made em great.The kind of seedy feel,almost as if you shouldn't be there in a way.Full of lifes characters dodgy and otherwise.this for me along with the music was their appeal.

[Jez Jones]

For the qualty of tunes and atmosphere The Twisted Wheel was miles ahead IMHO,I don't think you can ever beat a basement club when it comes to atmosphere,big ballrooms can't match up.Don't judge it by the Wheel now,it was on two floors and all the basement was a dance floor apart from small stage and DJ area.With 600plus crammed in from allover the country,400 dancing and only the occasional sub standard tune nothing comes close.

I also think it was the most important because it set the standard and spawned the idea of setting up allniters ellswhere.The Torch did a great job in following and IMO is the second most important club,The Cats another great club for quality of tunes.

The Mecca and The Casino although both credible contenders would have struggled to get of the ground if the Wheel would have still been open.

Regards Brian

thats about it in a nutshell mate nice one. Distant memories of after the wheel shut and before the torch started nighters, was Ivor Abadi ,who tried to start allnighters at the Ambassader club in bradford. Remember a few of us going there and it was in the cellar of a terraced house F***ing quality tunes but I was bloody sh*t scared in there. Very itimidating!!!

[Jez Jones]

great post......what a lot of folk who read these threads and mabye didn't go to these places,when I first walked into the dark dingy TORCH the sheer atmosphere created,that really can only be created in smallish crammed club is what made em great.The kind of seedy feel,almost as if you shouldn't be there in a way.Full of lifes characters dodgy and otherwise.this for me along with the music was their appeal.

exactly mate In todays language it takes you right out of yer f***ing 'comfort zone'

[Soulsmith]

Soulsmith, you can come to Imber with me

Cheers for the offer, but my wife reminds me I'm currently taking a break

[Soulsmith]

Surprised to see Clifton Hall doing quite well. A venue that I haven't got a clue about.

Be interested to hear a bit more about it. Maybe it a 'Clifton hall' thread would make a good read?

[Sean Hampsey]

Surprised to see Clifton Hall doing quite well. A venue that I haven't got a clue about.

Be interested to hear a bit more about it. Maybe it a 'Clifton hall' thread would make a good read?

Awesome Venue that bridged the demise of Wigan Casino and the Birth of Stafford.

But I was only thinking earlier today how many must have missed it (the King Tutt thread got me thinkin' along with the recent ZZ & CO debacle). Both of these were tunes were massive at Clifton Hall... and yet so many seem to be only just discovering them.

Did most people on SS leave the scene as Wigan died? or did the majority on here come onto the scene via Stafford (or later).

Maybe a bit of both?

Sean

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

Awesome Venue that bridged the demise of Wigan Casino and the Birth of Stafford.

But I was only thinking earlier today how many must have missed it (the King Tutt thread got me thinkin' along with the recent ZZ & CO debacle). Both of these were tunes were massive at Clifton Hall... and yet so many seem to be only just discovering them.

Did most people on SS leave the scene as Wigan died? or did the majority on here come onto the scene via Stafford (or later).

Maybe a bit of both?

Sean

If you are talking about the most influential venue ,it has to be the Mecca.They pushed the envelope of what was acceptable on the northern soul scene.the diversity of what we have now is directly attributable to messers Levine and Curtis

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

And still no Yate

Yes, but we 'KNOW' don't we, eh Tabs....but as already said you can't have every venue included, I'm a little bit surprised...nay, gobsmacked that St. Ives wasn't in the poll but never mind, I voted for Stafford, I have friends that as regs of The Torch & The Wheel say that was the dogs bollocks but we can only rely on our experiences.....we all have, a time, a place.

KTF

Baz

[Barry]

I plumped for Stafford, as I never got to some of the other earlier venues, Mecca, Wheel etc.

My reasoning being that I think that Stafford and it's music compacted the NS scene and its devotees into a force again, it seemed to start afresh.

Although I attended fairly regularly I must say that I never truly felt as much a part of the scene in the Stafford days, it became quite high brow with the regulars at the time as regards some of the 'new' stuff that got played, it was almost as if all the knowledge you'd accrued over the years stood for very little if you weren't bang on it with the latest c/u's etc....but then again that was probably just me being a clueless kid ay?

I'm pleased to see Rotherham doing well, I think as it was the main night to which the the majority of the 'homeless' Wigan ex pats gravitated to following the Casino's closure.

[Guest]

I plumped for Stafford, as I never got to some of the other earlier venues, Mecca, Wheel etc.

My reasoning being that I think that Stafford and it's music compacted the NS scene and its devotees into a force again, it seemed to start afresh.

Although I attended fairly regularly I must say that I never truly felt as much a part of the scene in the Stafford days, it became quite high brow with the regulars at the time as regards some of the 'new' stuff that got played, it was almost as if all the knowledge you'd accrued over the years stood for very little if you weren't bang on it with the latest c/u's etc....but then again that was probably just me being a clueless kid ay?

I'm pleased to see Rotherham doing well, I think as it was the main night to which the the majority of the 'homeless' Wigan ex pats gravitated to following the Casino's closure.

I echo the statement of the credibility of The Clifton Hall .....

It does not reveive the respect that other name venues have been given , but no one can ignore the contribution it played in the continuation of the scene after WC closed , and prior to Stafford opening .......

Malc Burton

[Barry]

I echo the statement of the credibility of The Clifton Hall .....

It does not reveive the respect that other name venues have been given , but no one can ignore the contribution it played in the continuation of the scene after WC closed , and prior to Stafford opening .......

Malc Burton

Bloody awful 1st and 2nd year Anniversary patches though Malc ay?

Yeah, I loved the night.

[Guest]

Bloody awful 1st and 2nd year Anniversary patches though Malc ay?

Yeah, I loved the night.

Agreed , they were not the best of artistic masterpieces .......

I will be speaking to Alan Senior in the coming week , so I will ask him who " designed " them .......

Malc Burton

[Barry]

Agreed , they were not the best of artistic masterpieces .......

I will be speaking to Alan Senior in the coming week , so I will ask him who " designed " them .......

Malc Burton

They gave away two with the same design, the green and blue ones, the second g&b one (obviously) didn't have '1st Anniversary' on it

The second g&b one may not have been the '2nd Anniversary badge, was it given away on a BH or artsist night?) as I'm sure the ones I have attached to an owd Wrangler upstairs were Yellow (2nd Annie), with a more traditional patch format and Red (3rd Annie) - am I right or wrong?

[Guest]

They gave away two with the same design, the green and blue ones, the second g&b one (obviously) didn't have '1st Anniversary' on it

The second g&b one may not have been the '2nd Anniversary badge, was it given away on a BH or artsist night?) as I'm sure the ones I have attached to an owd Wrangler upstairs were Yellow (2nd Annie), with a more traditional patch format and Red (3rd Annie) - am I right or wrong?

I assume that to be the jacket , and not an American ranch hand who works with cattle ........

Images of the 1A and the 3A shown below : as the 2A patch was a " revision " of the 1A , use your imagination ......

Malc Burton

Edited March 2, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Sean Hampsey]

Agreed , they were not the best of artistic masterpieces .......

I will be speaking to Alan Senior in the coming week , so I will ask him who " designed " them .......

Malc Burton

Betty Croft designed them, Malc.

Steves Mum.

She did all the artwork for the logo's (inc the 'After Dark' stuff) and the press ads and flyers etc.

A wonderful woman, Betty.

Sean

[Guest]

Betty Croft designed them, Malc.

Steves Mum.

She did all the artwork for the logo's (inc the 'After Dark' stuff) and the press ads and flyers etc.

A wonderful woman, Betty.

Sean

Thanks for that Sean ......

Steve introduced me to her once , and I found her a nice person to talk to ; and until now , I did not know she was behind the designs .......

Question : How did she manage to get Steve to hold that pose long enough to get it down on paper ? ......

Malc Burton

Edited March 2, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Guest]

Betty Croft designed them, Malc.

Steves Mum.

She did all the artwork for the logo's (inc the 'After Dark' stuff) and the press ads and flyers etc.

A wonderful woman, Betty.

Sean

Cat lover,loads of em`

[Guest gordon russell]

If you are talking about the most influential venue ,it has to be the Mecca.They pushed the envelope of what was acceptable on the northern soul scene.the diversity of what we have now is directly attributable to messers Levine and Curtis

flippin eck gazza.....bloody posh words there mate lol

[Epic]

Think most people would agree that the "golden era" for the discovery of the classic northern soul tunes (now sometimes referred to as "played out oldies" in certain circles) was 1971-1974/75. This obviously encompasses Torch, Mecca, Va-Va, Catacombs & Wigan.

Wigan did not open until 1973 & was heavily influenced by the other clubs listed above. In 1976 the "oldies" nights overtook the regular Saturday nights in popularity.

In fairness I think Wigan clawed some credibility back in 79/80 when Richard Searling was playing some awesome tuneage.

[Guest biggray1]

I never went but it seems fairly obvious to me from reading & hearing stories from hundreds of people that Blackpool Mecca is very close to Wigan Casino as the most important NS venue.

From the list the one that would have probably been most my kind of thing would have been Stafford but it doesn't appear to have had the stature of BM imo.

Simon

Here Here Simon..

[Epic]

If you are talking about the most influential venue ,it has to be the Mecca.They pushed the envelope of what was acceptable on the northern soul scene.the diversity of what we have now is directly attributable to messers Levine and Curtis

Yes - Blackpool Mecca for me.

Northern, Modern, "The Last Hour"(Birth of Crossover) Disco & Jazz Funk.

The Highland Room did it ALL!!!!!!! & that was before 1977.

[bri phill]

Think most people would agree that the "golden era" for the discovery of the classic northern soul tunes (now sometimes referred to as "played out oldies" in certain circles) was 1971-1974/75. This obviously encompasses Torch, Mecca, Va-Va, Catacombs & Wigan.

Wigan did not open until 1973 & was heavily influenced by the other clubs listed above. In 1976 the "oldies" nights overtook the regular Saturday nights in popularity.

In fairness I think Wigan clawed some credibility back in 79/80 when Richard Searling was playing some awesome tuneage.

I agree for sheer volume of tunes discovered that was the golden period but for sheer quality the period before imho was just as good if not better.