A Great Shame

[Guest Pete Griffin]

Well, i am out the door on this one, im off out in my new car, oops! i mean second hand, well, its new to me anyway

Pete Griff

Edited February 18, 2008 by Pete Griffin

[Guest Ranger]

But looking back at Steve's original post it was about a comment made that a particular 'Rare & Underplayed Oldies' night did not play northern soul. If it's the night I'm thinking of (Steve, my wife introduced herself to you as a friend of your brother in law. Spot, you were there too) it was, apart from a dozen or so records, wall to wall 6ts, all uptempo.

These threads always seem to degenerate into the same oldies v newies arguements, mainly because we all have different definitions of what 'northern soul' is.

Kev

[Guest Ranger]

Well, i am out the door on this one, im off out in my new car, oops! i mean second hand, well, its new to me anyway

Pete Griff

Could be another split Pete. Oldies, Newies & Pre-Owned

Kev

[Guest Pete Griffin]

Could be another split Pete. Oldies, Newies & Pre-Owned

Kev

With service history

[Guest]

Agree completely, I really enjoyed Stafford although it took me a while to adjust from Wigan but so glad I did

Ive had the same comments in the last 12 months djing at a couple of places, including like you "take this sh1t off" and "can you play some northern"

I still love looking for sixties stuff that are new to me and me and my mates still ring each other regularly to play the latest "new" sixties thing we have picked up

Given your comments you might like the night me and my mate Mike started up last month near Warrington 1st Friday of every month - Soulful Shack. Got some great feedback for the first night have a look on events lookback.

So if you can get up that way call in , we'd love to see you and you may find it just up your street

Cheers

Steve

[Guest Ranger]

Agree completely, I really enjoyed Stafford although it took me a while to adjust from Wigan but so glad I did

Ive had the same comments in the last 12 months djing at a couple of places, including like you "take this sh1t off" and "can you play some northern"

I still love looking for sixties stuff that are new to me and me and my mates still ring each other regularly to play the latest "new" sixties thing we have picked up

I think this is part of the point I'm trying to make Steve. The scene has evolved over the years, it has never stood still. Different tunes and styles were played at each of what might be considered the major venues of each era. So I think the tired old 6ts v 7ts debate should be wrapped up in Dave Godin's article and thrown away. It simply doesn't hold water. Northern Soul is more about attitude and a state of mind, not dates on a calendar or words in a 30 odd year old magazine.

Kev

[Dave Moore]

When did you leave the scene Steve? 1972?

It has always been divided, and I would dare say, never been one big happy family.

I have been attending NS venues since 1970 and would go so far as to say the NS scene has never been in such a bad shape, and I for one am totally disillusioned with it.

Christ On A Bike Brian, you've got Butch playing within walking distance of your house on Friday, you've a group of respected local collectors playing at Rolls Royce once a month. Middleton and Lifeline are a mere bus ride away, Weekenders in the general area providing a myriad of styles of soul on a regular basis, the legendary artists are swamping the shores of the UK like never before! What's not to like?! Disillusioned? You shoukld be out at weekend sucking it uip like a bleedin' hoover!

If that don't suit, jump on plane with Dave Fand Kev P in April. We'll have you dancin' yer ass off in Valencia!

[Pete S]

Northern Soul is more about attitude and a state of mind

Oh yes, and WHAT THE MUSIC SOUNDS LIKE.

You can have as much attitiude as you want but if the music is sh*t, so is your state of mind.

[Guest Ranger]

Oh yes, and WHAT THE MUSIC SOUNDS LIKE.

You can have as much attitiude as you want but if the music is sh*t, so is your state of mind.

Read my post again Pete, I never said it wasn't about the music. What I'm saying is that if people hadn't accepted new sounds and styles over the years the scene would have died a long time ago. That's nothing to do with oldies, newies, 6ts, 7ts or whatever labels people might want to put on things. Unlike rock n roll, punk, ska and any other musical style I can think of the artists didn't set out to make a Northern Soul record. Northern soul is an artificial music genre, created and defined by the punters and the DJs, nothing else.

Kev

[Guest]

Bloody hell where did that concept come from?

You will be saying next it doesnt have to be sh1t rare to be good as well

[Guest Ranger]

Bloody hell where did that concept come from?

You will be saying next it doesnt have to be sh1t rare to be good as well

Got a bit fed up with the 6ts v 7ts thing so I thought I'd take it a bit more upmarket

I shall shortly introduce the thoughts of Descartes Kant and Socrates

Edited February 18, 2008 by Ranger

[Guest Trevski]

Just like to make the point that when I talk about moving forward etc I don't mean into 70's 80's 2k tunes. I think some readers confuse moving forward and newer sounds as non 60's. This is not my point. I am primarily 60's orientated, with some 70's etc that I think have a northern appeal. To me moving forward is accepting 60's tunes that were not played at Wigan, and don't feature in the top 500. Stafford moved forward from the Wigan style of plays, but stayed primarily 60's. There are still 60's newies being unearthed, combine these with underplayed and forgotten spins from earlier eras that now sound better than they did back then, before the boundaries of tempo etc shifted, and thats the kind of thing I want to be listening to at venues, not tired out 'girl across the street" and "I never knew" etc. Classics and still good records, but they need to make way for other tunes to be enjoyed. I don't want to go to a venue and know every record played. I want to hear something new (to me, at least) so I can rush off and try to find a copy. That's how it was when I started going to do's, and I don't see why that can't continue with a little inventive DJ'ing and the bottle to risk clearing the floor with something the punters don't know! I know some DJ's/promoters ascribe to the theory that the floor is paramount, and it must be kept full, but surely at some point the dancers are gonna say "I'm sick of dancing to the same records, lets hear something different" Altho' I can't see that happening anytime soon, as I am still amazed how people fill the floor time after time to the same stuff!

[Northern Soul Uk]

I'd like to add that nothing makes me feel and nothing can literally bring me to tears like the old Northern tunes. as it has been said, and I agree, it all comes down to where, when and who with etc. Take Tobi Legend - Time will pass you by for instance, I can't listen the tune without filling up, and I know the reason for that is where, when and who with. Saying that, there are a lot of tunes that were made in the 70's, 80s and even some in the 90s that are stunning tracks, as mentioned above some of the Disco orientated stuff and definately some of the soulful House can NEARLY have the desired effect. If you listen the track below you'll see what i mean, if the first drop doesn't make the hairs on the back of your head stand up, then you must be dead. This track is possibly the closest this to Northern that has been made by House producers as a House track. It's by 'Shaboom' and it's called 'Totally' The recording is not that brilliant cos my son's styli are knackered, but you'll get the gist.

Shaboom - Totally

As I say, I have been DJing House since it's introduction into the UK, I was literally the first ever person to play a House track in Leeds, so for me to have been into it for so long, thare has to be a lot of love there. Tracks like this one must stand a chance of making it onto the scene and possibly becoming classics of the future. It is good to see that many of you feel strongly about the points raised, I say, let's all strive to become one, whatever your definition of Northern soul is.

Hope the link works BTW

Edited February 18, 2008 by steveluigi

[Northern Soul Uk]

Yes it has Steve, big time downunder, was 1st played at here Billy's on The Gold Coast in 2004 by one of my partners in crime Ainsley White (originally from Warrington...well somebodies got to be) & went down an absolute storm in the modern room of the 2004 Australian National Northern Soul Weekender in Brisbane, susequently has been played out many a time albeit an edited version.

Also Carmelita - Isn't It Lonely was played here before Soul Sam picked it up.

I've attached the re-edit version of CeCe Rogers....enjoy!

KTF

Baz

Yes, the edited version is the same as the full version, but obviously shorter. The actual original 12" single on U.S Atlantic is worth about £100, rare as far as House tracks go. I have the UK Promo version, which has the accapella and the edited mix as well as the full version, valued at even more. CeCe Rogers also did a storming track called 'All join hands', also quite rare and an amazing record. he has one of the most soulful voices as far as house music is concerned and it wouldn't suprize me a t all if there wasn't a more northern style track by him out there somewhere. Good choice BTW.

Steve

[Pete Eccles]

Just like to make the point that when I talk about moving forward etc I don't mean into 70's 80's 2k tunes. I think some readers confuse moving forward and newer sounds as non 60's. This is not my point. I am primarily 60's orientated, with some 70's etc that I think have a northern appeal. To me moving forward is accepting 60's tunes that were not played at Wigan, and don't feature in the top 500. Stafford moved forward from the Wigan style of plays, but stayed primarily 60's. There are still 60's newies being unearthed, combine these with underplayed and forgotten spins from earlier eras that now sound better than they did back then, before the boundaries of tempo etc shifted, and thats the kind of thing I want to be listening to at venues, not tired out 'girl across the street" and "I never knew" etc. Classics and still good records, but they need to make way for other tunes to be enjoyed. I don't want to go to a venue and know every record played. I want to hear something new (to me, at least) so I can rush off and try to find a copy. That's how it was when I started going to do's, and I don't see why that can't continue with a little inventive DJ'ing and the bottle to risk clearing the floor with something the punters don't know! I know some DJ's/promoters ascribe to the theory that the floor is paramount, and it must be kept full, but surely at some point the dancers are gonna say "I'm sick of dancing to the same records, lets hear something different" Altho' I can't see that happening anytime soon, as I am still amazed how people fill the floor time after time to the same stuff!

Respect and kind of agree with most of your comments, but isn't it just a possibility that sounds you are tired of others see as fresh and sounds that inspire you to find a copy others see as tired? the point i'm tryin to make is if 'moses smith' is filling the floor at an event that promotes that kind of policy then fair play, theres plenty of nights/events geared towards playing unknown/semi unknown music, ive been at many nights when a record is played and heard simultaniously 'not this again' and 'love this what is it?

A case of hoping an event does what it says on the tin, and then making the choice of returning or not, not trying to change what is possibly a successful formula for that particular night,

Lastly too many now seem to detatch themselves from the paying public with the dreadful term that is 'punters' it seems everyone these days isn't a 'punter' as if those that are out to be entertained/educated are a different breed of animal,

Not directed wholly at you Trev but just a case of one persons tired oldie could be another persons all time fave or even another persons fresh sound, and if any event is getting the numbers through the door on a regular basis then they are doing something right and delivering a service that those numbers are willing to pay for (punters)

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

Could be another split Pete. Oldies, Newies & Pre-Owned

Kev

Don't forget the boots or even a few bonnets....lol

The original post & question posed by Steve was why is there such a division, as I said in my original post it has always existed & always will, I'm sure there are many who frequented Mr M's over the main room & visa versa because of the oldies versus newies debate, I flitted between the two as to me at the time both were supplying me with 'newies' & Personally Yate, Bedford & Stafford were better for me musically.

I can understand fully why some people prefer either 60's, 70's out & out Northern to modern, but it is also about supply & demand, venues etc, I suspect that the majority of you can enjoy the availabilty of going to any venue over any given weekend that plays just the genre you require for your soul satisfaction or an across the board policy.

Here we have to have a across the board policy or we possibly wouldn't have a scene, 90% of attendees are ex-pat hard core soulies who have had to adapt to not only appreciating 'their' oldies but also have to accept the new sounds coming through from whatever soul genre it is, because if they didn't they wouldn't have anywhere to go.

The Sydney soul scene is a prime example, it's the largest city in this fair country with a population of about 5 million (1 quarter of the national population) but it has the weakest Northern soul scene, this was not always the case, the main reason for this degradation was mainly due to the oldies versus newies plus an apathetic attitude of some, which in turn led to most promoters saying 'f#% it', as it's hard enough trying to get a decent venue here anyway.

Our population on the Gold Coast is approx 500,000 & in Brisbane 1.4 million, we advertise our soul nites as Northern Soul nites so we can attract predominately ex-pats but also some switched on Aussies, we still have people coming out of the woodwork every now & then who have been here for years, so just put yourselves in our shoes & be thankful that you have choice.

KTF

Baz

[Pete S]

Just like to make the point that when I talk about moving forward etc I don't mean into 70's 80's 2k tunes. I think some readers confuse moving forward and newer sounds as non 60's. This is not my point. I am primarily 60's orientated, with some 70's etc that I think have a northern appeal. To me moving forward is accepting 60's tunes that were not played at Wigan, and don't feature in the top 500. Stafford moved forward from the Wigan style of plays, but stayed primarily 60's. There are still 60's newies being unearthed, combine these with underplayed and forgotten spins from earlier eras that now sound better than they did back then, before the boundaries of tempo etc shifted, and thats the kind of thing I want to be listening to at venues, not tired out 'girl across the street" and "I never knew" etc. Classics and still good records, but they need to make way for other tunes to be enjoyed. I don't want to go to a venue and know every record played. I want to hear something new (to me, at least) so I can rush off and try to find a copy. That's how it was when I started going to do's, and I don't see why that can't continue with a little inventive DJ'ing and the bottle to risk clearing the floor with something the punters don't know! I know some DJ's/promoters ascribe to the theory that the floor is paramount, and it must be kept full, but surely at some point the dancers are gonna say "I'm sick of dancing to the same records, lets hear something different" Altho' I can't see that happening anytime soon, as I am still amazed how people fill the floor time after time to the same stuff!

If I were attending venues on a weekly basis I would agree with everything you say. I'd want to hear a much larger percentage of 60's newies and lesser knowns than oldies. Without the new discoveries the scene would have been playing statues with itself for the last 25 years. I just draw the line at the infiltration of non-60's tracks, with many notable exceptions of course.

[Guest James Trouble]

[paultp]

My german isn't that good anymore but the gist seemed to be "how amazing that someone plays records these days and look how much they cost"

A full translation would be nice and also the details of the last track played

[Pete S]

It's all about the money!

[Guest]

Only the first line of my post was directed at you Spot, the one that agrees with Pete Griffin.

The rest had nothing to do with you or your post so you didn't actually need to reply to my post or defend whatever you've said because I was talking about something else completely different - about the way certain people treat those who only like 60's as dinosaurs and think their main purpose in life is making us see the light.

I don't regard you as a dinosaur Pete - more of a Victor Meldrew figure

Derek

[Guest James Trouble]

My german isn't that good anymore but the gist seemed to be "how amazing that someone plays records these days and look how much they cost"

A full translation would be nice and also the details of the last track played

It's The Vibration, they say it's a funky sensation. Ian Wright spin at Soul Revolution, and I presume Soul Spectrum up in Scotland

[paultp]

It's The Vibration, they say it's a funky sensation. Ian Wright spin at Soul Revolution, and I presume Soul Spectrum up in Scotland

Very nice indeed, does it cost a lot of pennies?

And what about that translation

[Guest James Trouble]

Very nice indeed, does it cost a lot of pennies?

I don't think it's easy.

Edited February 19, 2008 by James Trouble

[Guest SteveJohnston]

I have been into the Northern scene for over 30 years now, I had a break of some 10 years to fullfill my dream of becoming a well known DJ in another type of music, which I won't name. I saw the error of my ways eventually and started collecting Northern again some 3 years ago. I started going to a few venues around the Leeds/West Yorkshire area. The first one I went to (no names mentioned) there were very few tunes that I recognised, I put that down to me being off the scene for a while. The next one, I recognised most if not all the tracks that were being played. I got talking to a guy at the second venue and mentioned the first place I had been to, and he said that where I had been was not a Northern Soul night, but a 'rare and underplayed' night. He went on to say that there is quite a rift between the followers of each type of music, and that at a lot of venues, Northern oldies were frowned upon and vice versa. When I left the scene it was one big happy family. I understand that the scene has to move on, but let's not forget the roots that placed Northern soul firmly on the map of UK music, and formed the first ever underground dance scene in the world. Why the division?

I can't believe that this debate is still going on from the early 70ts for f*^ks sake,

All soul is ok with me.

I don't know if I'm lucky or not but I'm just as happy at a Jazz Funk night or a Northern Soul all-nighter always have been I just love soul and before any one says that jazz funk is not soul just remember that is you're opinion not mine and as far as I'm concerned you can shove that opinion where the sun don't shine. If 60ts northern is you're bag then you go to a sixties northern soul night just as anyone into modern soul should go to one run like Fish and friends hold at Burton, and enjoy it as much as I do at any night playing soul records.

IF someone put a real anything goes soul event on I'd bee one of the first there

Steve J

[BrianB]

I just love soul and before any one says that jazz funk is not soul just remember that is you're opinion not mine and as far as I'm concerned you can shove that opinion where the sun don't shine. If 60ts northern is you're bag then you go to a sixties northern soul night

Steve J

This type of attitude is exactly why I am disillusioned with the NS scene, and where does the title Jazz/Funk mention Soul?

Most NS do's now have the obligatory 70s spot. I don't want to hear 70ts at a NS do!

Trevski's post was bang on, and is exactly how I feel.

I am sticking to listening to sounds at home and reading my There's That Beat until I can sort my brain out, but am I wrong in wanting to listen to 60ts NS, be it newies, oldies, Motown or whatever. I do not want to go out to listen to 70s/80s/90/2000/R&B/Jazz bloody Funk.

[Reg]

This type of attitude is exactly why I am disillusioned with the NS scene, and where does the title Jazz/Funk mention Soul?

Most NS do's now have the obligatory 70s spot. I don't want to hear 70ts at a NS do!

Trevski's post was bang on, and is exactly how I feel.

I am sticking to listening to sounds at home and reading my There's That Beat until I can sort my brain out, but am I wrong in wanting to listen to 60ts NS, be it newies, oldies, Motown or whatever. I do not want to go out to listen to 70s/80s/90/2000/R&B/Jazz bloody Funk.

I know what you mean Brian, although I'm not a strictly sixties type myself. I have periods where I prefer 60s for a while, then I have a 70s spell, etc etc and may only be in the mood for predominantly 60s or 70s . However I can cope with a bit of a mix as I don't particularly dislike any of the sub genres..ok not particularly keen on popcorn and jazz funk but you don't tend to hear any of that at the venues I attend.

I'm sure's there's lots of venues that just do rare sixties or across the board northern soul aren't there? I'm sure that Burnley is exclusively 60s and looking at the playlists it isn't all rare underplayed and also places like The Greatstone play predominantly 60s (with the exception of Mark B who plays a few later tracks). Also the Barnsley allniter and your lad Paul's night at MMU? So don't give up on it yet Brian Although I wish that I could get out more and be able to moan about what's to offer

[Guest SteveJohnston]

This type of attitude is exactly why I am disillusioned with the NS scene, and where does the title Jazz/Funk mention Soul?

Most NS do's now have the obligatory 70s spot. I don't want to hear 70ts at a NS do!

Trevski's post was bang on, and is exactly how I feel.

I am sticking to listening to sounds at home and reading my There's That Beat until I can sort my brain out, but am I wrong in wanting to listen to 60ts NS, be it newies, oldies, Motown or whatever. I do not want to go out to listen to 70s/80s/90/2000/R&B/Jazz bloody Funk.

You badly need to read all my post again!

When i go to a N/S night i do not want to hear modern soul of come to that 70ts my bag IS 60ts N/S i spend more than i should collecting it! But i also collect modern soul, and as for jazz funk not having soul in it's go by name if it was not for F/E there would be no EFin soul in N/S!

Steve J

[spot]

Well done, round of applause.

Just a pet hate of mine, swearing in posts that is & I know most people only do it to emphasis a point but if this forum was a room full of people you didn't know or hardly knew, then would you walk in & start F'ing & B'ing??

Only the first line of my post was directed at you Spot, the one that agrees with Pete Griffin.

The rest had nothing to do with you or your post so you didn't actually need to reply to my post or defend whatever you've said because I was talking about something else completely different - about the way certain people treat those who only like 60's as dinosaurs and think their main purpose in life is making us see the light.

On this one I apologise, thought you was aiming it at me & Monday morning paranoia obviously got the better of me .That's the problem with just the written word, your not sure if comments are general or specific & not seeing the whites of the persons eyes or the tone or inflective in the voice, then it can be taken wrong way, as I've obviously proved.

Take care,be safe but most of all, be happy,

Spot.

[SteveM]

This type of attitude is exactly why I am disillusioned with the NS scene, and where does the title Jazz/Funk mention Soul?

Most NS do's now have the obligatory 70s spot. I don't want to hear 70ts at a NS do!

Trevski's post was bang on, and is exactly how I feel.

I am sticking to listening to sounds at home and reading my There's That Beat until I can sort my brain out, but am I wrong in wanting to listen to 60ts NS, be it newies, oldies, Motown or whatever. I do not want to go out to listen to 70s/80s/90/2000/R&B/Jazz bloody Funk.

You've been around 30+ years Brian. Surely you must have heard thousands of seventies tracks played at Wigan and the Mecca, not to mention Cleethorpes and Samanthas to name but two. Not all of them were good by any means, but you have your own personal view, which you are of course entitled to, that NS is purely 60's sounds. Obviously, thats not the case as reflecting back will surely tell you. If you were around when Wigan was dying on its a**e and pre sixties Stafford, other than Richards one off sixties gems and and a few bits from Pat and others, seventies tunes provided most of the dancefloor action (Clifton Hall, Dave Thorley at Stafford etc ) And they were a hell of a lot better than the pop crap that had been churned out by many djs for two years or so. Thats when people should have been disillusioned. And I'm not talking about Judy Street, August and Deneen type things, but the true second rate stuff, even by NS "dance music" standards, Joe 90's etc.

I'm not anti 60's at all and had a break and missed Staffords golden period for example, but to refuse to accept that 70's sounds have played a big part in the history of the scene is rewriting history imo. I'm not suggesting for one minute that you should have to like them (because music in any form is a very personal thing I believe) but to deny their part over the years, and to claim, they dont belong is going a bit too far imo.

Steve

Edited February 19, 2008 by SteveM

[Guest Bogue]

You've been around 30+ years Brian. Surely you must have heard thousands of seventies tracks played at Wigan and the Mecca, not to mention Cleethorpes and Samanthas to name but two. Not all of them were good by any means, but you have your own personal view, which you are of course entitled to, that NS is purely 60's sounds. Obviously, thats not the case as reflecting back will surely tell you. If you were around when Wigan was dying on its a**e and pre sixties Stafford, other than Richards one off sixties gems and and a few bits from Pat and others, seventies tunes provided most of the dancefloor action (Clifton Hall, Dave Thorley at Stafford etc ) And they were a hell of a lot better than the pop crap that had been churned out by many djs for two years or so. Thats when people should have been disillusioned. And I'm not talking about Judy Street, August and Deneen type things, but the true second rate stuff, even by NS "dance music" standards, Joe 90's etc.

I'm not anti 60's at all and had a break and missed Staffords golden period for example, but to refuse to accept that 70's sounds have played a big part in the history of the scene is rewriting history imo. I'm not suggesting for one minute that you should have to like them (because music in any form is a very personal thing I believe) but to deny their part over the years, and to claim, they dont belong is going a bit to far imo.

Steve

Would have to agree with that sentiment, 60's type tune is my preferred genre but there are lots of 70's tunes i liked & thought fitted in. Probably because they were still in essence songs in a 60's kind of style i.e. great hook lines & chorus, & telling a story.

For me, i loose interest after the Philly sound era, when the beat took over the importance of the song. If you get what i mean

[SteveM]

Would have to agree with that sentiment, 60's type tune is my preferred genre but there are lots of 70's tunes i liked & thought fitted in. Probably because they were still in essence songs in a 60's kind of style i.e. great hook lines & chorus, & telling a story.

For me, i loose interest after the Philly sound era, when the beat took over the importance of the song. If you get what i mean

I do, and thats fair comment, (but it doesn't do that in every case obviously but I do agree to a certain extent). I dont really go for the 90's 2k stuff, but there are exceptions of course. And I'm not calling Brian or anybody else a dinosaur because he/they prefer 60's. Thats their perogative and so it should be. Its just that 70's things have been played for 37 years or so. So, imo, they must be part of it.

[macca]

70's is such a mixed bag too. If we're talking big, hoary 70's classics.

"I can see him loving you" leaves me cold, but "wash & wear love" makes my hair stand on end.

"seven day lover" is in my top 10, but I can't stand "on the real side" (sorry).

"love factory" or '"cashing in" reach my parts, but "time passes by" or "what took you so long" don't.

It's a shame to knock it all, no?

[Shsdave]

. I have thought numerous times whan I have heard a soulful house track that it could pass as a Northern tune. Maybe this is the way forward, blending Northern oldies, newies and Soulful House tunes? Bring it on!!!

[Pete S]

This type of attitude is exactly why I am disillusioned with the NS scene, and where does the title Jazz/Funk mention Soul?

Most NS do's now have the obligatory 70s spot. I don't want to hear 70ts at a NS do!

Trevski's post was bang on, and is exactly how I feel.

I am sticking to listening to sounds at home and reading my There's That Beat until I can sort my brain out, but am I wrong in wanting to listen to 60ts NS, be it newies, oldies, Motown or whatever. I do not want to go out to listen to 70s/80s/90/2000/R&B/Jazz bloody Funk.

Well thats 3 of us now

[Pete S]

. I have thought numerous times whan I have heard a soulful house track that it could pass as a Northern tune. Maybe this is the way forward, blending Northern oldies, newies and Soulful House tunes? Bring it on!!!

Just can't be bothered to carry on reading this but just want to make my comment.

"Passed as a northern tune" Why because it's uptempo ? Soulful (?) house is a completely different style of music, it sounds nothing like Northern & doesn't fit alongside Northern in any shape or form. Why would we want to play it at Northern venues?

House music has it's place, it's called the house music scene

Nothing personal just my opinion

That's four of us now.

At this rate we'll be able to form a splinter group.

House music, I ask you...

[Ste Henderson]

I would not attend any venue that played across the board, I never liked it in the 70s when that format was introduced at the Ritz All Dayers with Ian Levine which divided the scene to some respect, unless its a multi-room venue where the options are open, just my opinion of course..

Keep It Seperate

Steve

[Little-stevie]

I can't believe that this debate is still going on from the early 70ts for f*^ks sake,

All soul is ok with me.

I don't know if I'm lucky or not but I'm just as happy at a Jazz Funk night or a Northern Soul all-nighter always have been I just love soul and before any one says that jazz funk is not soul just remember that is you're opinion not mine and as far as I'm concerned you can shove that opinion where the sun don't shine. If 60ts northern is you're bag then you go to a sixties northern soul night just as anyone into modern soul should go to one run like Fish and friends hold at Burton, and enjoy it as much as I do at any night playing soul records.

IF someone put a real anything goes soul event on I'd bee one of the first there

Steve J

Believe it my friend and its got a lot of milage in it yet :rolleyes..These debates just go round and round because the people posting like different stuff and all have there own take on what the scene is about... Just best to state your point once and sit back with tin hat on.... I have many folk(60s only) saying how this and thast tunes just blown them away and then they find out its a 70s track ,its like finding out the moon aint made of cheese .. The northern scene was always 60s and 70s in the same room for us growing up in the early 80s....Mainly 60s i guess but a good percentage of what they were calling 70s modern too..

I was walking into Bury Town hall a couple of years ago when i saw a bloke leaving through the same door... He said "don't go in there Steve, they are playing that bloody northern" ,well it is a northern soul venue as it says on the flyer i told him... He just shot off into the dark..Many folk go to venues that play music they don't like,some folk are born Victor Meldrews,keep away and leave it to those having a good time...

Don't have to debate on what rocks my boat,can do that by voting with my feet..I will only go to events that do it for me,ther is more than enough choice for all if you look in the events guide...

Have fun and just go where you wanna go,it aint gonna change anything just bashing the keys on here... Get out there and support the venues you like....Long time gone and all that..

Edited February 19, 2008 by little-stevie

[Paul-s]

This type of attitude is exactly why I am disillusioned with the NS scene, and where does the title Jazz/Funk mention Soul?

Most NS do's now have the obligatory 70s spot. I don't want to hear 70ts at a NS do!

Trevski's post was bang on, and is exactly how I feel.

I am sticking to listening to sounds at home and reading my There's That Beat until I can sort my brain out, but am I wrong in wanting to listen to 60ts NS, be it newies, oldies, Motown or whatever. I do not want to go out to listen to 70s/80s/90/2000/R&B/Jazz bloody Funk.

UH!? 70s has always been played at Northern soul events. So thats a long time that you've been sick! I wont go into the hundreds of tracks that have been played from Wigan through to today, but really, didn't you notice?

[Paul-s]

This type of attitude is exactly why I am disillusioned with the NS scene, and where does the title Jazz/Funk mention Soul?

Most NS do's now have the obligatory 70s spot. I don't want to hear 70ts at a NS do!

Trevski's post was bang on, and is exactly how I feel.

I am sticking to listening to sounds at home and reading my There's That Beat until I can sort my brain out, but am I wrong in wanting to listen to 60ts NS, be it newies, oldies, Motown or whatever. I do not want to go out to listen to 70s/80s/90/2000/R&B/Jazz bloody Funk.

This type of date line attitude is exactly why IM pissed off with the scene. What about 60's sounding 70's and 70's sounding 60's? Do you run up to the decks, grab the record and check the date, to make sure it matches your ethic? Or do you only dance to tunes that have been checked and certified as 60's. Or do you mean, they should only play stuff you know? Because there are loads of 70's tunes that would fool you into thinking they were 60's and vice versa!

[Pete S]

This type of date line attitude is exactly why IM pissed off with the scene. What about 60's sounding 70's and 70's sounding 60's? Do you run up to the decks, grab the record and check the date, to make sure it matches your ethic? Or do you only dance to tunes that have been checked and certified as 60's. Or do you mean, they should only play stuff you know? Because there are loads of 70's tunes that would fool you into thinking they were 60's and vice versa!

If they've got that 60's sound or feel then fine, but do you really want to hear plink plonk disco music?

[macca]

This is just down to taste basically, & for taste there are all kinds of colours. What?

[SteveM]

This is just down to taste basically, & for taste there are all kinds of colours. What?

I like 60's 70's and some (early) eighties, but I can't understand the way some posts seem to deny the part played in the NS scene by 70's records, as if they never were played, less still popular. 70's and new releases were played before the Ritz all dayers. Its not just something thats happened lately.

[BrianB]

This type of date line attitude is exactly why IM pissed off with the scene. What about 60's sounding 70's and 70's sounding 60's? Do you run up to the decks, grab the record and check the date, to make sure it matches your ethic? Or do you only dance to tunes that have been checked and certified as 60's. Or do you mean, they should only play stuff you know? Because there are loads of 70's tunes that would fool you into thinking they were 60's and vice versa!

Thank you Mr Sadot for pointing this out to me. However, believe it or not, I was actually aware that 70s records were played at NS venues in the 70s.

That does not mean to say that I have to like them.

Just to answer your question, if I like a record, I do run up to the DJ and ask what it is. If it is a good, or great record, I am not interested in when it was made.

What I do not like is the type of record that has no resemblance whatsoever to the 60s type music I love.

To be honest, I am not really interested in what you are p....d off with. I know what I like and what I want to hear.

Thank you for your observations but I didn't really find them helpful

Yours in Northern Soul,

Brian B

[Pete S]

This is just down to taste basically, & for taste there are all kinds of colours. What?

What you on about Macca?

[Paul-s]

If they've got that 60's sound or feel then fine, but do you really want to hear plink plonk disco music?

NO I dont, Good 70's and plink plonk disco are two very different things!

[Paul-s]

Thank you Mr Sadot for pointing this out to me. However, believe it or not, I was actually aware that 70s records were played at NS venues in the 70s.

That does not mean to say that I have to like them.

Just to answer your question, if I like a record, I do run up to the DJ and ask what it is. If it is a good, or great record, I am not interested in when it was made.

What I do not like is the type of record that has no resemblance whatsoever to the 60s type music I love.

To be honest, I am not really interested in what you are p....d off with. I know what I like and what I want to hear.

Thank you for your observations but I didn't really find them helpful

Yours in Northern Soul,

Brian B

Like wise, But, You started it by expecting other people to care about what pisses you off? I myself am Dogmatic about other things such as the weather . No need for the Mr Sadot.

Edited February 19, 2008 by paul-s

[martynthejazz]

Can't believe someone said they like newies but only between 1958 & 1969, which to me is a contradiction in terms, I know they meant new finds but you get my drift.

Hi, It does say my name on the Post you Know .

I always thought thats what it was called "newie" when it is new to the scene what ever the year it is.

If its the first time i have herd a song. it will be new one to me.

Pete Griff

Pete mate, hold on a min, iv not read all the posts yet, But dont just turn off if the records after 1969 how mad is that, And i dont just mean cos you poss dont like the 70s type stuff, or modern or crossover, whatever..... if that person told you that you would have liked the stafford stuff ??? then most of them were late late 60s early 70s pete ?? you cant just rule out soul by the DATE. ... and looking at the bottom of your posts you mention Boogaloo. latin etc.??? well nearly all the fania stuff did,nt come out till the 70s mate. you,re missing so much, have a re think pete, cheers martyn

[macca]

What you on about Macca?

It's from the Spanish 'Para gustos hay colores..'

Roughly meaning 'If tastes were colours, there's always red if you don't like yellow'.

A bit of Spanglish mate!

M

[Maark]

I have been into the Northern scene for over 30 years now, I had a break of some 10 years to fullfill my dream of becoming a well known DJ in another type of music, which I won't name. I saw the error of my ways eventually and started collecting Northern again some 3 years ago. I started going to a few venues around the Leeds/West Yorkshire area. The first one I went to (no names mentioned) there were very few tunes that I recognised, I put that down to me being off the scene for a while. The next one, I recognised most if not all the tracks that were being played. I got talking to a guy at the second venue and mentioned the first place I had been to, and he said that where I had been was not a Northern Soul night, but a 'rare and underplayed' night. He went on to say that there is quite a rift between the followers of each type of music, and that at a lot of venues, Northern oldies were frowned upon and vice versa. When I left the scene it was one big happy family. I understand that the scene has to move on, but let's not forget the roots that placed Northern soul firmly on the map of UK music, and formed the first ever underground dance scene in the world. Why the division?

Read Mr Darcy's posts, that will explain quite alot.