Lulu - Stop Fooling Around

[oldsteve woomble]

Hey grip and grapple fans, it's...........Celebrity All-Star-Tune-Wrestling!...............

In the red corner!..........Little Hank! With his version of 'Try To Understand' on Soundstage 7

And in the blue corner!......... Lulu! With her attempt on uk decca, possibly with The Krankies on backing vocals (well she is white AND (said even more hush-edly ) scottish, so one has only to put 2 and 2 together.......... )

Ding Ding! Seconds out, Round 1............

WOW!! Lulu's just forearm-smashed Little Hank in the chops and 'it's all over' for what we call in the trade a 'Joe Frazier on Motown'. And, as Lulu gnarled to poor Little Hank as he lay prostrate,....... OOO-R-YER!!

Who says diddy little scottish birds have got no soul?

Doctor! More sedatives please.............

[Guest topcatnumpty1]

Tigers ,march on --Steve --take your medication!!!!!!

Tony C

B.T.W.-- Rani,s Scottish!!!

Hey grip and grapple fans, it's...........Celebrity All-Star-Tune-Wrestling!...............

In the red corner!..........Little Hank! With his version of 'Try To Understand' on Soundstage 7

And in the blue corner!......... Lulu! With her attempt on uk decca, possibly with The Krankies on backing vocals (well she

is

white AND (said even more hush-edly

) scottish, so one has only to put 2 and 2 together.......... )

Ding Ding! Seconds out, Round 1............

WOW!! Lulu's just forearm-smashed Little Hank in the chops and 'it's all over' for what we call in the trade a 'Joe Frazier on Motown'. And, as Lulu gnarled to poor Little Hank as he lay prostrate,....... OOO-R-YER!!

Who says diddy little scottish birds have got no soul?

Doctor! More sedatives please.............

[Billy Freemantle]

The people who are having a go at Ken really don't seem to understand the argument at all. No-one is saying that Lulu is a Soul singer or that the bulk of her records have been soulful or danceable in a Northern Soul setting. Northern Soul is not about artists: it's about records. In the vast majority of case the artist is black, but not always. The records made by many artists revered on the scene just happened to turn out as capable of being filed under Northern Soul or even categorized as Soul. A large part of their product is often totally non Northern and often not soulful either. Anyone fancy doing a back-drop to Jackie Wilson singing Danny Boy?

[Guest Simon]

In the red corner!..........Little Hank! With his version of 'Try To Understand' on Soundstage 7

And in the blue corner!......... Lulu! With her attempt on uk decca, possibly with The Krankies on backing vocals (well she is white AND (said even more hush-edly ) scottish, so one has only to put 2 and 2 together.......... )

Don't think personally there's a lot between the two versions but then i'm not overly concerned with the Soulfullness, just like a good tune myself.

Simon

[Guest]

Cos they're all pop singers and Soul Source is a 'Rare and Northern Soul forum'.

I'm afraid my passion is soul music....sorry if that gives anyone a problem. Wouldn't have thought I'd need to explain.

Seems Epic thinks similarly - so there's at least 2 of us on here .

Brian

Brian,

Shame on you, you've obviously not heard Lulu sing live..to say Lulu ain't got soul..is like saying Crouch is too small to be a center forward...

Sorry, but the gals got "it" when she sings a "soul" tune...and I fancy her..

John

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Brian,

Shame on you, you've obviously not heard Lulu sing live..to say Lulu ain't got soul..is like saying Crouch is too small to be a center forward...

Sorry, but the gals got "it" when she sings a "soul" tune...and I fancy her..

John

Surprised at you John - not letting your d*ck rule your head now are you ?

When have I ever accused Crouch of being a centre forward ?

Brian

Edited February 6, 2008 by Brian Ellis

[Guest]

The people who are having a go at Ken really don't seem to understand the argument at all. No-one is saying that Lulu is a Soul singer or that the bulk of her records have been soulful or danceable in a Northern Soul setting. Northern Soul is not about artists: it's about records. In the vast majority of case the artist is black, but not always. The records made by many artists revered on the scene just happened to turn out as capable of being filed under Northern Soul or even categorized as Soul. A large part of their product is often totally non Northern and often not soulful either. Anyone fancy doing a back-drop to Jackie Wilson singing Danny Boy?

You waistin`your breath Billy,they dont care. i have no wish to take the cultrual high ground,so i give up.

[Spanner]

Brian,

Shame on you, you've obviously not heard Lulu sing live..to say Lulu ain't got soul..is like saying Crouch is too small to be a center forward...

Sorry, but the gals got "it" when she sings a "soul" tune...and I fancy her..

John

Bit old for you sheep

[Pete S]

Lulu

Cilla Black

Susan Maughan

Tom Jones

Helen Shapiro

Jackie Trent

Petula Clarke

Tony Blackburn......................

................. the list gets longer....................& sadder.

I don't think you should bracket those artists as sad, all except Tony Blackburn have made some unbelievable records - Lulu - To sir with love for a start, Cilla Blacks version of Anyone who had a heart, Susan Maughans version of That other place, Petula Clark had a fantastic run of classic singles from Downtown onwards including Don't Sleep in the subway, The other mans grass is always greener etc...even Jackie Trent's version of The one who really loves you on Oriole is great

[Pete S]

Truth is Lulu IMHO is a decent enough pop singer - nothing more - nothing less. One thing she ISN'T is a soul singer.

She made the US r&b charts a few times in the 70's though - where do you draw lines thats the problem

[Guest Simon]

I don't think you should bracket those artists as sad, all except Tony Blackburn have made some unbelievable records - Lulu - To sir with love for a start, Cilla Blacks version of Anyone who had a heart, Susan Maughans version of That other place, Petula Clark had a fantastic run of classic singles from Downtown onwards including Don't Sleep in the subway, The other mans grass is always greener etc...even Jackie Trent's version of The one who really loves you on Oriole is great

You missed out the best Pete, Helen Shapiro!

'Stop & you'll become aware', 'Tell me what he said', 'Shop around' etc.

All absolutely sky scrapingly brilliant dancers imho.

Simon

[Pete S]

You missed out the best Pete, Helen Shapiro!

'Stop & you'll become aware', 'Tell me what he said', 'Shop around' etc.

All absolutely sky scrapingly brilliant dancers imho.

Simon

I agree with you - Stop And Become Aware is one of the best of all the UK northern sounds. Tell Me What He Said - if it had never charted and was rare - would be a classic, actually I've got that on my juke box...He Knows How To Love Me is great as well. I think Helens voice is just as good as Timi Yuro's...she's a really well regarded jazz singer now I think

[Guest]

Are you all missing point a very important factor, records are made by producers! and sung how the producer, arranger wants them to be sung, usually.

Stick Lulu in a studio with Dan Penn, Johnny Baylor, Quin Ivy, Rene Hall etc, she'll do a fine soul record, no problem.

Let Jonathan King, Mickie Most or Cook & Greenaway produce her, it'll be site pop.

That's what happened to Tina Turner, Rock producers turned her into a mighty fine rock star, .

The answer to all this is, both gals are talented enough to sing any style they are asked to do.They can both sing soul, and they can both sing pop or rock.

Tony Blackburn can't sing at all.

Lulu on New Years Eve on The Jools Holland show,gave me goosepimples she was awesome (doin' soul), as was "Duffy" & Seasick Steve just blew me away..... Eddie Floyd didn't..

Edited February 6, 2008 by john manship

[Epic]

I don't think you should bracket those artists as sad, all except Tony Blackburn have made some unbelievable records - Lulu - To sir with love for a start, Cilla Blacks version of Anyone who had a heart, Susan Maughans version of That other place, Petula Clark had a fantastic run of classic singles from Downtown onwards including Don't Sleep in the subway, The other mans grass is always greener etc...even Jackie Trent's version of The one who really loves you on Oriole is great

None of the artistes can ever be described as sad.They are all very competent pop singers (apart from TB) & within the pop genre have a huge amount of credibility - they all have had a degree of longevity in the music industry so you have to respect that.

If anybody thinks of these people as soul singers that is fine by me - IMHO they are not.

[Guest]

I agree with you - Stop And Become Aware is one of the best of all the UK northern sounds. Tell Me What He Said - if it had never charted and was rare - would be a classic, actually I've got that on my juke box...He Knows How To Love Me is great as well. I think Helens voice is just as good as Timi Yuro's...she's a really well regarded jazz singer now I think

Pete,

Ya right, Helen Shapiro had a huge amount of "soul" in the vocal. The guy who made all the NS acetates in Kettering during the 70s was her producer (forgot his name).

He said she was the most incredible vocalist ,who would hold back most of the time, as she was very modest and somewhat shy, and according to him, she never really "let loose" with her singing, like he thought she should.

John

Edited February 6, 2008 by john manship

[Guest]

follow this link & enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9NnfuBg2qc

[Guest the dukester]

I don't think you should bracket those artists as sad, all except Tony Blackburn have made some unbelievable records - Lulu - To sir with love for a start, Cilla Blacks version of Anyone who had a heart, Susan Maughans version of That other place, Petula Clark had a fantastic run of classic singles from Downtown onwards including Don't Sleep in the subway, The other mans grass is always greener etc...even Jackie Trent's version of The one who really loves you on Oriole is great

Love......... You Baby & Only One Such As You

sound clip of The one who really love you?

[ChrisOD1964]

follow this link & enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9NnfuBg2qc

now whats wrong with that

chris

Edited February 6, 2008 by ChrisOD1964

[Guest Brian Ellis]

now whats wrong with that

chris

Nothing's 'wrong' with that at all. Enjoyed it; great performance of a catchy song by Lulu..... period.

Thanks for the link John.

Also took the opportunity to do a search on Seasick Steve and thought that was an energetic performance of what is probably swamp music. Not my cup of tea...but there you go we all have opinions and preferences.

Here's the link if anyone's interested.

Wonder if the 'Dog House Song' will start to get plays . Nothing would really surprise me.

Brian

Edited February 6, 2008 by Brian Ellis

[KevH]

I don't think you should bracket those artists as sad, all except Tony Blackburn have made some unbelievable records - Lulu - To sir with love for a start, Cilla Blacks version of Anyone who had a heart, Susan Maughans version of That other place, Petula Clark had a fantastic run of classic singles from Downtown onwards including Don't Sleep in the subway, The other mans grass is always greener etc...even Jackie Trent's version of The one who really loves you on Oriole is great

CILLA BLACK!!,when she sings the "true,true",part of the song,wow!!.

only thought it was me who liked it. .

Don't suppose the John Manship/Lulu thing will EVER be mentioned again on here .

[Guest]

Nothing's 'wrong' with that at all. Enjoyed it; great performance of a catchy song by Lulu..... period.

Thanks for the link John.

Also took the opportunity to do a search on Seasick Steve and thought that was an energetic performance of what is probably swamp music. Not my cup of tea...but there you go we all have opinions and preferences.

Here's the link if anyone's interested.

Wonder if the 'Dog House Song' will start to get plays .

Brian

Before I follow the link I do hope it's Lulu in the shower.... I'll follow it now with great anticipation..don't disappoint me

Aaaarh, it's Seasick Steve, not as attractive as Lulu, but you gotta applaud this man's amazing talent!! try and find the video with him playing a one string guitar.... the man's mad!

Edited February 6, 2008 by john manship

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Before I follow the link I do hope it's Lulu in the shower.... I'll follow it now with great anticipation..don't disappoint me

John.....don't go there .....its not Lulu .......it's feckin Seasick Steve. Now don't go getting off on that....pleeeeeeease!

Brian

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Before I follow the link I do hope it's Lulu in the shower.... I'll follow it now with great anticipation..don't disappoint me

Aaaarh, it's Seasick Steve, not as attractive as Lulu, but you gotta applaud this man's amazing talent!! try and find the video with him playing a one string guitar.... the man's mad!

Here you go John, just for you (and the rest of the seasick amongst us), the one string guitar vid. Masterpiece.

This man could become a legend....second only to Sticky Vicky.

Brian

[Wrongcrowd]

Are you all missing point a very important factor, records are made by producers! and sung how the producer, arranger wants them to be sung, usually.

That's a bit too simplistic for me John, you know that soul comes from more places than a producer saying "sing it like this", I take your point on dextrous vocal styles though, and Lulu might probably be an exception to the rule. I just don't understand why very obvious pop records are played at so called soul nights, when as you know there's 1000's of more deserving tunes out there by real soul artists just waiting for real appreciation.

[pow wow mik]

Listen to Esther Phillips "Home Is Where The Hatred Is" & then listen to Lulu - "Boom Bang A Bang".

Then make your own mind up.

that's a strange way of proving it. That's a shit song compared with a good song. Esther Philips has made plenty of boring shit too, soul or not. What if Lulu had sung 'Home is where the hatred is', i know sounds unlikely but 'pop' singers have covered just as deep 'soul' songs. does it immiediately become pop?

A lot of vocals on official 'soul' records are certainly no better than Lulu or Sandie shaw.

and Tina Turner a rock singer? eh?? you heard her stuff on sue from the early 60s?

A lot of the singers on legendary soul 45s now make shit rock or gospel music, does that make their earlier output not soul?

I'm not saying Lulu made any 'soul' records, but you cannot say pop singers never made soul records. and if you could, why would you? Dont you just like music if it's good?

[Ezzie Brown]

that's a strange way of proving it. That's a shit song compared with a good song. Esther Philips has made plenty of boring shit too, soul or not. What if Lulu had sung 'Home is where the hatred is', i know sounds unlikely but 'pop' singers have covered just as deep 'soul' songs. does it immiediately become pop?

A lot of vocals on official 'soul' records are certainly no better than Lulu or Sandie shaw.

and Tina Turner a rock singer? eh?? you heard her stuff on sue from the early 60s?

A lot of the singers on legendary soul 45s now make shit rock or gospel music, does that make their earlier output not soul?

I'm not saying Lulu made any 'soul' records, but you cannot say pop singers never made soul records. and if you could, why would you? Dont you just like music if it's good?

correct mike........for instance .......susan singer........not a soul singer but .just listen to her go ps is our great mutual hero JACK HAMMER a ROCK AND ROLL, RYTHM AND BLUES ,JAZZ ,POP OR SOUL ARTIST!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? ALL I RECKON!!

ezzie

[mshoals]

Whats up then,tell us.....cause your just a wind up.........go split hairs somewhere else cause no-one compared Lulu to say Aretha or something stupid like that.

Lulu's 1970 Muscle Shoals recorded "New Routes" album is great anyway. And wasn't it Lulu's version of "Oh Me Oh My" from that album which inspired Aretha to record her own version?

[Guest edsuede]

What a stomper this is !!

Not heard it out but been told it has picked up a lot of plays recently, anyone know who or where ??

Gets regular plays from me at Beat Club here in Scarborough along with another of her superb tracks - 'Can't hear you no more' (Decca, 1964, F11965). The latter track is EXTREMELY soulful in my view!!! We can get away with playing these as we don't claim to be a soul venue !

[Guest]

That's a bit too simplistic for me John, you know that soul comes from more places than a producer saying "sing it like this", I take your point on dextrous vocal styles though, and Lulu might probably be an exception to the rule. I just don't understand why very obvious pop records are played at so called soul nights, when as you know there's 1000's of more deserving tunes out there by real soul artists just waiting for real appreciation.

Simplistic but it does apply to Lulu and other non-black singers who actually have some soul but does not apply to Tony Blackburn etc. You don't get taken to Muscle Shoals unless someone hears something soulful in your voice. Paul Anka for instance... whoops..now I've opened a can of worms..

[Dave Moore]

I personnally think that quality will always out and although Lulu has recoreded some mighty drivel she's also hit the mark with lots more. I think Joss Stone should be made to sit and take notes on this performance from Lulu. JS - Completely manufactured 'pap'. Lulu - Honest, heartfelt performances every time. Soul? Maybe not, but quality? Without a doubt.

[Quinvy]

LULUIST!!!!

Now that made me laugh........

[Dave Pinch]

i take it that the folks on here who dont like lulus northern offerings

wont like pop records like shane martin. lynne randell, dana valery etc.

coz they are 100% northern, 100% pop and 0% soul but it dont make em

bad records altho i do prefer towana type sounds meself

dave

[Ian Seaman]

i take it that the folks on here who dont like lulus northern offerings

wont like pop records like shane martin. lynne randell, dana valery etc.

coz they are 100% northern, 100% pop and 0% soul but it dont make em

bad records altho i do prefer towana type sounds meself

dave

Too true Dave, i got my copy off a good mate of yours !!!! Paul S.

[timthemod]

If you look at Lulu's 60's Decca output alot of the material are Soul/R&B covers both well known and not so. Her versions are her interpretations of the demos she heard, and with british studios and musicians the resulting products always going to be different.

Personally for the best soul track try the EP only beat ballad 'Nothing Left To Do But Cry', written by future Bread frontman David Gates, presiding at that time in the Brill Building, and as good as the US original by Merry Clayton.

[Guest the dukester]

WHO'S GONNA PUT ON THE FIRST SOUL NIGHT PLAYING RECORDS FROM ALL WHITE (SOUL) ARTISTS

FLYER WILL READ

"IT'LL BE ALLWHITE ON THE NIGHT"