Little Jerry Cover Up

[Guest]

Hi there,

Just listened to the Little Jerry cu and was i the only one who thought it sounded like Tommy Tate?

Edited January 30, 2008 by Guest

[Guest Trevski]

Hi there,

Just listened to the Little Jerry cu and was i the only one who thought it sounded like Tommy Tate?

More like Tommy Ridgley

Edited January 30, 2008 by Trevski

[Garethx]

Have PMd you Andy.

[TEDDY EDDY]

Hi there,

Just listened to the Little Jerry cu and was i the only one who thought it sounded like Tommy Tate?

SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE TOMMY TATE to me....

[Guest Trevski]

SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE TOMMY TATE to me....

Yes, a big ten points to you...  

Edited January 31, 2008 by Trevski

[Russ Vickers]

Well there you go.................i wont bother following up on the hard work that has been done on this now, ya can fight amongst your selfs for it, an open secret for awhile i know, but all the lazy bastards with the big cheque books are now fully in the picture..........& the collectors & DJ's who have to genuinely graft to even have a sniff of records like this can kiss it goodbye................& BTW dont even bother with the studio owner or leader of the backing band as theyve probably been spammed to death by now & no they dont have copies & all the label stock is gone........there you go, you can just go & throw money at em now, if they ever do turn up.

I hope you have all given your selfs a pat on the back for being so clever.....................

I'll go & get mi tin hat..............

Russ

Edited February 1, 2008 by Russ Vickers

[Guest Trevski]

Well there you go.................i wont bother following up on the hard work that has been done on this now, ya can fight amongst your selfs for it, an open secret for awhile i know, but all the lazy bastards with the big cheque books are now fully in the picture..........& the collectors & DJ's who have to genuinely graft to even have a sniff of records like this can kiss it goodbye................& BTW dont even bother with the studio owner or leader of the backing band as theyve probably been spammed to death by now & no they dont have copies & all the label stock is gone........there you go, you can just go & throw money at em now, if they ever do turn up.

I hope you have all given your selfs a pat on the back for being so clever.....................

I'll go & get mi tin hat..............

Russ

As you say Russ, an open secret to those 'in the know' personaly I don't believe in cover ups these days. If it's shit rare, then why cover it, if it's not, then why should it be the perogative of the big boys only, swapping info between their own little cliqu? The more that have a chance to own it, and more importantly, play it out, the better, IMHO. And let's face it, the chances of finding one cheap were long gone anyway, those 'in the know' had gone thru all the contacts with a fine toothed comb ages ago.

[Prophonics 2029]

Tommy Tate or Tommy Turner, some times less is more and not to ask for ya sound clips up on the tinternet then we be non the wiser, to get your favourite record on ya latest CD nah for it keeps you guessing and wanting. Cover up's are part of the scene it's that what makes it so interesting, the unobtainable. .

Keep the sounds for the dance floor.

Your all wrong it sounds Tommy Yates

Edited February 2, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Russ Vickers]

Tommy Tate or Tommy Turner, some times less is more and not to ask for ya sound clips up on the tinternet then we be non the wiser, to get your favourite record on ya latest CD nah for it keeps you guessing and wanting. Cover ups are part of the seen it's that makes it so interesting, the unobtainable. .

Keep the sounds for the dance floor.

Your all wrong its Tommy Yates

The sound clip had been available via the Anglo American website for a month for most of the known universe to listen to & download, but at the time i couldnt download the clip, unfortunately my gaff on SS was not to ask for it to be PM'd or emailed to my personal account!, so now thats cleared up, please could you explain the rest of your post as ya 'England' aint too good buddy, i'm assuming, you're suggesting that i wanted the clip to make up a CD, cos i dont get out much, if thats the case, then you couldnt be more wrong, altho cant see the problem with that really.........very amusing Tommy Yates.........do you really think TT used this name to record under, cos he was under contract else where ????, gosh.......with regards cover ups, i think your stating the obvious & preaching to the converted. Anyway if i have misunderstood your post in any way please except my sincere apologies.............. basically i messed up by making the assumption that even if people realised, they would have the common dog to keep it to them selves, disapointing, but i should know better...........hey i f***ed up.

Trev.......of course you are right mate, i was just venting off, i realise that the people who knew, had checked it all out in all probability, but there was at least one person that actually owned the record who didnt realise who this really was & being a romantic old optimist i thought there might still be a 'dogs chance'............never mind, you live & learn & i wont be making that mistake again in a hurry, i feel sorry for a friend who did most of the donkey work & now i've inadvertantly wasted his time, thats why i was slightly miffed, for him really.

Russ

Edited February 2, 2008 by Russ Vickers

[Prophonics 2029]

please could you explain the rest of your post as ya 'England' aint too good buddy

i wanted the clip to make up a CD,

.do you really think TT used this name to record under, cos he was under contract else where

As you say, and you have read my thread wrongly, you were the one shouting off about cheque book soul collectors, the people I see spending the big bucks for records are DJ's who play these tunes out for our entertainment at leading venues across the country I can't think who else your thread is aimed at.

My point was about the music being covered generally even going back to the days of The Casino.

Ady C was saying the other day that one of his tunes had ended up on the internet so its not just this case brought to attention.

My posted yes, related to your asking for the clip, I for one have never heard the tune than in a club! Not every body follows Tim Browns auction.

Funny but nobody mentioned TT in your first thread.

If think back to what made clubs great 4, 5 and 6 years ago now you can get all these tunes on a Goldmine CD for me I would prefer to go out to hear these tunes…

If you can get away with it why not cover a record up this one has been around for 5 or 6 years, information is more widely accessible to all.

I have no idea who the fook the cover up is mate I said it sounds like TY.

I hope this answers your question

Edited February 2, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Russ Vickers]

As you say, and you have read my thread wrongly, you were the one shouting off about cheque book soul collectors.

My point was about the music generally even going back to the Casino.

Ady C was saying the other day that one of his tunes had ended up on the internet so it's not just this case brought to attention.

My posted yes, related to your asking for the clip, I for one have never heard the tune than in a club! Not every body follows Tim Browns auction.

Funny but nobody mentioned TT in your first thread.

If think back to what made clubs great 4, 5 and 6 years ago now you can get all these tunes on a Goldmine CD for me I would prefer to go out to hear these tunes...

I actually closed the first thread before anyone could speculate...........i agree with your opinion on going out to hear these tunes completely...........i think we agree on most things, im just a little disapointed that even if people knew, they should have been diplomatic about it...........but as i say, ya live & learn dontcha.

Im sure we must know each other PM me, not very good with peoples user names on here.

Russ

Edited February 2, 2008 by Russ Vickers

[Prophonics 2029]

Unless it's a Mellow Souls, Trannells the most records will be up for grabs at some point. I have just won a Royal Esquires for £25.00 off ebay I bet next year I will have a Clara Hardy for that.

Yep Hi Russ you do know me.

Edited February 3, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Chalky]

As you say Russ, an open secret to those 'in the know' personaly I don't believe in cover ups these days. If it's shit rare, then why cover it, if it's not, then why should it be the perogative of the big boys only, swapping info between their own little cliqu? The more that have a chance to own it, and more importantly, play it out, the better, IMHO. And let's face it, the chances of finding one cheap were long gone anyway, those 'in the know' had gone thru all the contacts with a fine toothed comb ages ago.

little clique? wonder who you can mean Trev? the so called big boys have actually taken the time and effort to find the records, gain the knowledge over many years, what they do with their knowledge is their perogative, why should they come on here and give it away to all the lazy freeloaders who give nothing back?

[Dave Rimmer]

..very amusing Tommy Yates.........do you really think TT used this name to record under, cos he was under contract else where ????,

Russ

Errr, yes

Tommy Yates

Verve 10556 - Darling, Something's Gotta Give / If You're Looking For A Fool - 1967

[Garethx]

I don't know why people are getting so het up about this. Tim Brown would not have auctioned a copy if this record were in any way cheap, plentiful or easy to buy: it would have knocked his credibility sideways if he had done so.

I guess it's still covered to protect exclusivity to an extent, but the fact is that knowing the identity of a record does not always guarantee that it becomes any easier to buy overnight.

In the 70s, 80s and 90s many tunes were covered in the full knowledge that they were not rare in any way: the turnover of sounds was far higher and this gave deejays and dealers a bit of a head-start in playing them, squirreling copies away to sell to mates at a preferential rate, selling them at relatively high prices once uncovered etc.

These days it takes years to break a previously unknown or unplayed sound and those who make the effort to do such a thing have earned the right to cover records up. The online rumour-mill is such that to cover something these days there's an almost cast-iron chance that the record is difficult to buy in the first place.

Yes there will be a proliferation of a few copies once something is uncovered in the case of, for example The Parliaments: but that was a relative trickle of copies that might have been in the collections of group or doo-wop collectors. When The Parliaments was played covered-up I would estimate that the amount of people on the rare soul scene who knew its identity could have been counted on the fingers of one hand.

Yes, the sounclip of the Little Jerry Williams cover-up is now in the public domain. It makes it easier to speculate who the singer might be. Does it make it any easier to find one? I very much doubt it.

Edited February 3, 2008 by garethx

[Manfromsoul45s]

I don't know why people are getting so het up about this. Tim Brown would not have auctioned a copy if this record were in any way cheap, plentiful or easy to buy: it would have knocked his credibility sideways if he had done so.

I guess it's still covered to protect exclusivity to an extent, but the fact is that knowing the identity of a record does not always guarantee that it becomes any easier to buy overnight.

In the 70s, 80s and 90s many tunes were covered in the full knowledge that they were not rare in any way: the turnover of sounds was far higher and this gave deejays and dealers a bit of a head-start in playing them, squirreling copies away to sell to mates at a preferential rate, selling them at relatively high prices once uncovered etc.

These days it takes years to break a previously unknown or unplayed sound and those who make the effort to do such a thing have earned the right to cover records up. The online rumour-mill is such that to cover something these days there's an almost cast-iron chance that the record is difficult to buy in the first place.

Yes there will be a proliferation of a few copies once something is uncovered in the case of, for example The Parliaments: but that was a relative trickle of copies that might have been in the collections of group or doo-wop collectors. When The Parliaments was played covered-up I would estimate that the amount of people on the rare soul scene who knew its identity could have been counted on the fingers of one hand.

Yes, the sounclip of the Little Jerry Williams cover-up is now in the public domain. It makes it easier to speculate who the singer might be. Does it make it any easier to find one? I very much doubt it.

to add to those sentiments, the fact that people refer to themselves as "in the know" is a bit odd. knowing about it after it's been discovered, covered up and played for at least a few years is not what i would call "in the know"

If you heard it out and thought "i've got this or my mates got this" seems fair enough to me though and that does happen as we don't "know" everything.

Covering tunes up is not so prevelant anymore but does add a bit of an edge to things. If people are "in the know" as it were then covering records would not bother them as they already "know" what they are already don't they?????

[Prophonics 2029]

Errr, yes

Tommy Yates

Verve 10556 - Darling, Something's Gotta Give / If You're Looking For A Fool - 1967

Thanks Dave I have been trying to work out my Verve's for ages.

So

Howard Gyton is 10386 66??

Williams & Ledbetter is 10601 so this is quiet late 67 to 68??

[Ficklefingers]

Right Then... pay attention now!! Last one to fill in the blanks is a big girls blouse:

ARTIST:

LABEL:

TITLES: a)

Approximate Purchase Price: £

Location of available copy at only a fraction of your last answer:

C'mon then you lot.... don't dither

I wondered last night, when Mr Dyson played this - he 'plonked' a loose 'paper' label over the top (once on the decks and only after assuring himself he was cueing the correct side) which I promptly 'blew' off from a distance of three or four paces! If Only I'd remembered to take me 'spinning' head with me... I might of been able to catch site of all details - not just the label name!!!!! Ah well... last in the queue yet again

A 'Little Jerry' c/upless Fingers

Edited February 4, 2008 by FickleFingers

[Guest Trevski]

little clique? wonder who you can mean Trev? the so called big boys have actually taken the time and effort to find the records, gain the knowledge over many years, what they do with their knowledge is their perogative, why should they come on here and give it away to all the lazy freeloaders who give nothing back?

You know the info is passed around to those in the know, regardless of who found it first, thats why they all seem to have a 'tiaras c/up' etc. I'm sure they didn't all stumble upon 'em at the same coincidental time.    It's all 'you scratch my back, i'll scratch yours' while the rest of us are left to itch! Who are "all the lazy freeloaders on here who give nothing back?" Bit of a sweeping statement don't you think?

I don't have the contacts and knowledge of some on the scene, but there are other ways of giving back, like getting off one's ar*e and supporting venues most weekends, and sticking one's neck out to defend the 'newies and upfront' scene against those that slag it off, and getting into bother for your passion! Passing on the knowlege that you do have, to those who ask, 

instead of keeping it to oneself,because you know how hard it is to come by, and hope they will return the favour.

Spending one's hard earned on tunes, and occaisionaly getting to play 'em out just for the pleasure of it,

keeping the small, local venues supported and ticking over, and hoping once,

just once, something the big boys take for granted might drop thru the letterbox.

As I said earlier, Most new discoveries are s**t rare anyway, and beyond the means of

the ordinary guy. So why bother covering 'em? By the time the big names put 'em on the deck, the majority of copies have disapeared to the other big hitters so the chances of anyone else securing one is minimal, and what harm would it do say, Butch, if I happened to luckily find one? None whatsoever, but maybe some punters who wouldn't get to hear it otherwise might.

I'm sure the TT will prove to be very hard to find now, and if its not, and other lesser DJ's get one and play it so what? the ones that have had it all this time have had a good run out of it. Might make some tunes turn over a bit quicker. "Tiara's/Belita Woods" C/up, good as they are, are getting a bit tiresome now.

I'm sure, had it not been covered,that not many would have got hold of one anyway, it's still a hard record, but sometimes covering something gives it a shelf life beyond it's sell by date. (having said that, they will be the next ones to go public, the word is already filtering down to ground zero  Not that it will do anyone down here any good by now. )

Got nothing against the big boys per s they have worked hard to get where they are,

and some, like Andy, are top fellas with time for anyone. Respect. Some won't give you the time of day, IMH experience.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Trevski

[Guest Trevski]

to add to those sentiments, the fact that people refer to themselves as "in the know" is a bit odd. knowing about it after it's been discovered, covered up and played for at least a few years is not what i would call "in the know"

If you heard it out and thought "i've got this or my mates got this" seems fair enough to me though and that does happen as we don't "know" everything.

Covering tunes up is not so prevelant anymore but does add a bit of an edge to things. If people are "in the know" as it were then covering records would not bother them as they already "know" what they are already don't they?????

I used the term "In the know" but I certainly wasn't refering, 'oddly' to myself! I WAS refering to those that had/have copies covered up, and the priveledged few they choose to pass that info onto a long time ago. I have never been in the know, never will be in the know,and will always be the last to know!

No-body told me what the "little Jerry' was I just noticed someone said it sounded "A lot like Tommy Tate" so I, as anyone else with half a brain cell could have done, (and still can do instead of asking on here) pulled up on t'interweb a TT discography, and .......    But I bet knowing the answer still won't get me a sniff of one! 

So what if the info on this has come on the radar of Joe public? Can't think of a c/up  in the past that hasn't. Those that are covered now will leak, eventualy, I think, but then I'm not "In the know" so by the time it does reach me, the info's virtually usless except for a talking point, just like this one!

Edited February 4, 2008 by Trevski

[Manfromsoul45s]

I used the term "In the know" but I certainly wasn't refering, 'oddly' to myself! I WAS refering to those that had/have copies covered up, and the priveledged few they choose to pass that info onto a long time ago. I have never been in the know, never will be in the know,and will always be the last to know!

No-body told me what the "little Jerry' was I just noticed someone said it sounded "A lot like Tommy Tate" so I, as anyone else with half a brain cell could have done, (and still can do instead of asking on here) pulled up on t'interweb a TT discography, and ....... But I bet knowing the answer still won't get me a sniff of one!

So what if the info on this has come on the radar of Joe public? Can't think of a c/up in the past that hasn't. Those that are covered now will leak, eventualy, I think, but then I'm not "In the know" so by the time it does reach me, the info's virtually usless except for a talking point, just like this one!

[Benji]

the so called big boys have actually taken the time and effort to find the records,

chalky, i somehow have the feeling a considerable percentage of these "big boys" don't actually take the time to find the records. they either take the time to dig out the cheque book and pay for some of these "big" tunes when they come for auction or wait until they get unknown tunes offered from the knowledgable collectors.

but generally i find this whole discussion quite amusing, isn't uncovering records part of the game "one-upmanship" as much as covering up unknown records?

unless one is the very first person to find/discover and play out a previously unknown disc nobody's entitled to object to uncover a record. simply either buying a cover up because you'd been offered it covered or buying a cover up because you've been told the true identity doesn't give you the right to forbid other collectors to uncover it...

and, even if you are said "very first person" and your "big" tune is uncovered, don't act like throwing your dolly out of the pram. get over it and find the next tune to cover...

[Guest Trevski]

Well... Just been informed that the discography is not correct!

ABC-Paramount 10626 - What's The Matter / Ordinarily - 1965

Okeh 7242 - I'm Taking On Pain / Are You From Heaven – 1966

Okeh 7253 - A Lover's Reward / Big Blue Diamonds - 1967 (Issued In The UK On Columbia DB8046 )

Big Ten ? - Handy Andy / Don't Play The Role – 1966

First line the backing singers sing as the record starts is "Don't play the role" so it looks obvious, but I've been assured it doesn't say Tommy Tate, or Big Ten on the label! The plot thickens once again! (what it does say on the label, they aint telling!) I've been pointed in the right direction tho' Thanks big fella, so I've now got the correct info! Dig a little further chaps/chapesses, your almost there!

Edited February 4, 2008 by Trevski

[Dave Rimmer]

Well... Just been informed that the discography is not correct!

ABC-Paramount 10626 - What's The Matter / Ordinarily - 1965

Okeh 7242 - I'm Taking On Pain / Are You From Heaven - 1966

Okeh 7253 - A Lover's Reward / Big Blue Diamonds - 1967 (Issued In The UK On Columbia DB8046 )

Big Ten ? - Handy Andy / Don't Play The Role - 1966

First line the backing singers sing as the record starts is "Don't play the role" so it looks obvious, but I've been assured it doesn't say Tommy Tate, or Big Ten on the label! The plot thickens once again! (what it does say on the label, they aint telling!) I've been pointed in the right direction tho' Thanks big fella, so I've now got the correct info! Dig a little further chaps/chapesses, your almost there!

It is correct now, and contains a lot more information, supplied by Tim Whitsett, about this particular record. He should know, it was his band playing the music

[Dysonsoul]

Firstly,no information is passed round the dj's or so called people in the know,the records are there to be found of course records like jerry williams ( not little jerry williams ) are a needle in a haystack which is the very reason for covering them up,when i say needle in a haystack i mean sourcing a a top notch unknown from scratch,whether it remains a " needle" only time can provide the answers.this record has been played on and off for quite a few years firstly by butch who i think i'm right in saying didn't really hammer it like some of his now classic plays, when i got a copy some 4-5 years ago i pushed it best i could and it started getting a decent flloor reaction but a touch disapointing when in reality i personally think it equals 99% of any of the top 500 of all time ,infact it's in my all time top 10 !

when browny put the sound clip up i told him it was a bad idea for this reason we have here - ain't it funny that hardly anyone gave a toss about the tune untill it was handed on a plate to them on a clip ? how many of the folk posting in or reading the thread have been to a venue where they can hear the 45 in real life ?

benji - you know in relation to a point you made about uncovering 45's yes fine if you own it but not one of these leaches actually owns the record !

find your own records !

also trev you know rgarding belita woods / suprise - look what's happened to that now in public domain leaches again record it at a venue ,cut it and play it out .this destroys the very fabric of our niter scene causing a knock on effect in collecting ethics ( only my opinion of course ) .

Fingers was nice to see you up at lifeline but you know blowing the paper cover off the the record on the decks wasn't a very inteligent move for sure .. that was a spare copy someone is buying ,they wanted to hear the sound quality because all the copies are pretty ropey condition .

Only my own views of course no doubt others won't see it this way..

[Guest Trevski]

Firstly,no information is passed round the dj's or so called people in the know,the records are there to be found of course records like jerry williams ( not little jerry williams ) are a needle in a haystack which is the very reason for covering them up,when i say needle in a haystack i mean sourcing a a top notch unknown from scratch,whether it remains a " needle" only time can provide the answers.this record has been played on and off for quite a few years firstly by butch who i think i'm right in saying didn't really hammer it like some of his now classic plays, when i got a copy some 4-5 years ago i pushed it best i could and it started getting a decent flloor reaction but a touch disapointing when in reality i personally think it equals 99% of any of the top 500 of all time ,infact it's in my all time top 10 !

when browny put the sound clip up i told him it was a bad idea for this reason we have here - ain't it funny that hardly anyone gave a toss about the tune untill it was handed on a plate to them on a clip ? how many of the folk posting in or reading the thread have been to a venue where they can hear the 45 in real life ?

benji - you know in relation to a point you made about uncovering 45's yes fine if you own it but not one of these leaches actually owns the record !

find your own records !

also trev you know rgarding belita woods / suprise - look what's happened to that now in public domain leaches again record it at a venue ,cut it and play it out .this destroys the very fabric of our niter scene causing a knock on effect in collecting ethics ( only my opinion of course ) .

Fingers was nice to see you up at lifeline but you know blowing the paper cover off the the record on the decks wasn't a very inteligent move for sure .. that was a spare copy someone is buying ,they wanted to hear the sound quality because all the copies are pretty ropey condition .

Only my own views of course no doubt others won't see it this way..

Is someone actually doing this Andy? That is totaly despicable! I hope when I have heard it out, it was a real one, I'm sure it was, as I don't normaly frequent places that would do that kind of thing. Don't think Tim's clip did much, really. Can't cut off it, and anyone who has heard it played out could have mentioned it sounded like Tommy Tate. The info was there to find. I know you are a bit miffed about it coming to light Andy, but it won't detract from it in the least. As you said its a needle in a haystack tune and if a few more are found then maybe some of those that don't get to hear it played out might get to hear it and actually boost its popularity. I agree it is a heluva tune! Who are "These leaches" Andy? 90% of people on the scene, myself included, fall into that catagory if 'feeding of others' as leaches do, is the point. Dj's since the scene began, found tunes to play out, and the collectors rushed to find 'em, that's how it works. Virtualy every record I have ever bought has been because I heard it played out, or on a tape, or at a mates house and thought "ooh I like that! will have to get one!" I suppose that is true for virtually everyone that collects. Leaches is a bit strong, IMHO.

From a different angle, and not in anyway aimed at anyone, just again MHO, the northern scene is virtualy unique in the covering up stakes. I don't agree with 'em anymore, havn't for a long while, because the DJ didn't MAKE the record, he only FOUND it, but are/were, hero worshipped by many. The artist that made it, made it for people to hear, and hopefully buy. 

Of course we know that didn't often happen. To cover it up is as good as saying to the poor bloke, "I'm gonna play your record, but I'm not even going to tell them it was you! They will never know it was your singing they enjoyed 'cos your not really important, I am! If I hadn't found it, no-one would have heard of you anyway, so I'll take all the credit, thank you very much!" Just MHO of course I'm sure others will view it differently. Not being all sanctimonious about this, I'm just as bad, I sold two records for a £1000 last week, and don't give a second thought to if the poor sods that made 'em are in the gutter. Just think its a bit of "It's my ball and your not playing" with C/ups these days.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Trevski

[Manfromsoul45s]

Firstly,no information is passed round the dj's or so called people in the know,the records are there to be found of course records like jerry williams ( not little jerry williams ) are a needle in a haystack which is the very reason for covering them up,when i say needle in a haystack i mean sourcing a a top notch unknown from scratch,whether it remains a " needle" only time can provide the answers.this record has been played on and off for quite a few years firstly by butch who i think i'm right in saying didn't really hammer it like some of his now classic plays, when i got a copy some 4-5 years ago i pushed it best i could and it started getting a decent flloor reaction but a touch disapointing when in reality i personally think it equals 99% of any of the top 500 of all time ,infact it's in my all time top 10 !

when browny put the sound clip up i told him it was a bad idea for this reason we have here - ain't it funny that hardly anyone gave a toss about the tune untill it was handed on a plate to them on a clip ? how many of the folk posting in or reading the thread have been to a venue where they can hear the 45 in real life ?

benji - you know in relation to a point you made about uncovering 45's yes fine if you own it but not one of these leaches actually owns the record !

find your own records !

also trev you know rgarding belita woods / suprise - look what's happened to that now in public domain leaches again record it at a venue ,cut it and play it out .this destroys the very fabric of our niter scene causing a knock on effect in collecting ethics ( only my opinion of course ) .

Fingers was nice to see you up at lifeline but you know blowing the paper cover off the the record on the decks wasn't a very inteligent move for sure .. that was a spare copy someone is buying ,they wanted to hear the sound quality because all the copies are pretty ropey condition .

Only my own views of course no doubt others won't see it this way..

Here Here Youth.. I think if these so called "Tiresome" tunes were just being heard at venues they may not have "outstayed their welcome" as people seem to think. The fact that they have them on cd or tape is more a case of "i've hammered this in the car and i'm sick of it now" the fact is that you've kept rewinding it was because is was F***king Great.

I think time will prove these to be the classics they deserve to be, A case in point stafford, Tony Galla i remember the "I'm sick of this & Not this again" and now it's probably more sought after than it's ever been..

If they want to tell butch after he's necked half a bottle of Jack Daniels that he covers up records cause he's no faith in the rariety or quality of what's on his playlist then go ahead by all means.. oh and while your there, don't forget to call him a "cheque book charlie" and of course it's a rare record, mmm i know i'll sell it for a fiver cause some people will accuse me of encouraging the "Cheque book charlies" I don't think so, none of us are that mad..or are we...

[Guest Trevski]

Here Here Youth.. I think if these so called "Tiresome" tunes were just being heard at venues they may not have "outstayed their welcome" as people seem to think. The fact that they have them on cd or tape is more a case of "i've hammered this in the car and i'm sick of it now" the fact is that you've kept rewinding it was because is was F***king Great.

I think time will prove these to be the classics they deserve to be, A case in point stafford, Tony Galla i remember the "I'm sick of this & Not this again" and now it's probably more sought after than it's ever been..

If they want to tell butch after he's necked half a bottle of Jack Daniels that he covers up records cause he's no faith in the rariety or quality of what's on his playlist then go ahead by all means.. oh and while your there, don't forget to call him a "cheque book charlie" and of course it's a rare record, mmm i know i'll sell it for a fiver cause some people will accuse me of encouraging the "Cheque book charlies" I don't think so, none of us are that mad..or are we...

I have heard these at virtually every venue I've been to for the last couple of years. Still love 'em and would get one if it came my way, but you yourself sited Tony Galla. You do get sick of hearing stuff if you hear it too often. Doesn't mean you dont still like it. I love steak, but I'd be sick of it if I had it every day!

Not bothered about 'cheque book charlies' if they have the dosh, good luck to 'em, I'd do the same.

Neither is it a question of faith in the rarity or quality of a record, with regard to covering it. I'd tell him any time, I don't agree with it. Half a bottle of Jack or not. Was that supposed to scare me?  I'm about as scared of him, or any b**ger else as I am of my cat! I'm 51 not 15, the days of being scared of the 'big lads' are long gone. (he's not very big anyway)

Edited February 4, 2008 by Trevski

[Manfromsoul45s]

I have heard these at virtually every venue I've been to for the last couple of years. Still love 'em and would get one if it came my way, but you yourself sited Tony Galla. You do get sick of hearing stuff if you hear it too often. Doesn't mean you dont still like it. I love steak, but I'd be sick of it if I had it every day!

Not bothered about 'cheque book charlies' if they have the dosh, good luck to 'em, I'd do the same.

Neither is it a question of faith in the rarity or quality of a record, with regard to covering it. I'd tell him any time, I don't agree with it. Half a bottle of Jack or not. I'm about as scared of him, or any b**ger else as I am of my cat! I'm 51 not 15, the days of being scared of the 'big lads' are long gone. (he's not very big anyway)

ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! best not run into you in a dark alley....

[Guest Trevski]

ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! best not run into you in a dark alley....

Grow up, silly boy!  I'm not hard, far from it, and fighting would only crease my suit, but I fear no bugger. What's the point? 

A couple of old blokes slapping each other over a bit of plastic, now thats funn

y!

Edited February 4, 2008 by Trevski

[Manfromsoul45s]

Grow up, silly boy. I'm not hard, far from it, but I fear no bugger. What's the point?

A couple of old blokes slapping each other over a bit of plastic, now thats funn

y!

now you've really lost me.....

[Guest Trevski]

now you've really lost me.....

Good!

[Manfromsoul45s]

Good!

no, you seem to think a post to andy in aggreement with him is somehow aimed directly at you and you alone. mmm and i thought being paranoid was only reserved for sunday nights. and as my friend Elaine would say."northern soul rule No1-no fighting on the dance floor" and your hardness is your own business...

[Guest Trevski]

no, you seem to think a post to andy in aggreement with him is somehow aimed directly at you and you alone. mmm and i thought being paranoid was only reserved for sunday nights. and as my friend Elaine would say."northern soul rule No1-no fighting on the dance floor" and your hardness is your own business...

Not at all, but you do use my remarks, in your posts, which leads me to retort.

Just thought the Butch/Bottle of Jack was a silly thing to say, so I repied to that also. Didn't think it was aimed at me alone, but just wanted to make the point that Just cos Butch is a so-called top DJ and has had a drink, why should anyone give a flying f**k, and be scared to give their oppinion? He's a little old fella, not Chuck Norris, or God!

Edited February 4, 2008 by Trevski

[pikeys dog]

not Chuck Norris, or God!

If Chuck Norris and God were to have a shirts off bare knuckle ruck, i'd put my house on Chuck.

[Chalky]

Just cos Butch is a so-called top DJ

so-called....there is no so called about it, he is a top dj.

[Guest Trevski]

If Chuck Norris and God were to have a shirts off bare knuckle ruck, i'd put my house on Chuck.

A very sensible bet mr Dog! PS. Have you seen your lookie-likee on the Lifeline photos?

Richard Bayley and I kept thinking we'd seen you! (He may have been a Spanish pirate after yer dubloons!)

[pikeys dog]

A very sensible bet mr Dog! PS. Have you seen your lookie-likee on the Lifeline photos?

Richard Bayley and I kept thinking we'd seen you! (He may have been a Spanish pirate after yer dubloons!)

Was talking to Johnny Gamlin Sat night and he mentioned my doppelganger...

Gonna have a look now just to confirm.

[Quinvy]

Was talking to Johnny Gamlin Sat night and he mentioned my doppelganger...

Gonna have a look now just to confirm.

I said "all right Joe", to him and shook his hand. Whoops!

[pikeys dog]

I can categoricaly confrim that i wasn't at the Lifeline Weekender

Any handsome larger that the average bear chap bearing a resemblance to me, definately wasn't me; unless he pulled, and was a considerate and skillful lover, with a larger than average undercarriage, then it might have been me....

[Guest Trevski]

I can categoricaly confrim that i wasn't at the Lifeline Weekender

Any handsome larger that the average bear chap bearing a resemblance to me, definately wasn't me; unless he pulled, and was a considerate and skillful lover, with a larger than average undercarriage, then it might have been me....

Are you sure your Dad never had a voyage to Spain?

[Ficklefingers]

Fingers was nice to see you up at lifeline but you know blowing the paper cover off the the record on the decks wasn't a very inteligent move for sure .. that was a spare copy someone is buying ,they wanted to hear the sound quality because all the copies are pretty ropey condition .

Absolutely and totally a TOP NIGHT!!! Location, venue, music, people, sales, purchases... Everything!! Loved the layout of the venue and the quality of the music is unquestionable. Not fortunate enough to be aware of this w/ender in time to attend for more than the one night - but next year!! Can't wait.. my heartfelt gratitude to all who help make Lifeline possible BRILL!!

Thank you, Andy, for acknowledging my Saturday attendance - and I accept your intent, in making the mention, as nothing other than sincere... as that is the sort of person I have come to know you as, and just one of many reasons why I have a good deal of respect for you.

I would be the first to admit that, yep... you're right! The use of 'intelligence' (when I undertook my dastardly deed of blowing that 'label' off the record), I feel/felt, wasn't required - as my intent was purely one of 'a little joviality' and something I felt would appeal to your particular sense of mischievousness!

I hold my hands up and acknowledge the fact that, in the scheme of what's going on with this thread, had I used 'intelligence'... of course - I would've opted for a more 'appropriate' moment to display my mischief!

I suppose it is one of those 'ironies of fate'... that it would turn out to be this 'bone of contention', and topic now under discussion here, that just happened to be the 45 on the decks at the time of my misdemeanor!!

Whilst, since my return last November, I have heard mention of a 'Lt Jerry c/up' (outstanding spins will always create a need for dj's, collectors, & dancers alike - even just 'listeners', to discuss with others the merits of 'special' tunes they hear), my first audio exposure of this awesome tune was when you were playing it! The very same time the 'offence' took place!!

The significance (so it turns out) of it being this particular record was neither a thought nor consideration in executing my faux pas. Rather.. it was solely the scenario itself that drove my wickedness! That little devil inside of me couldn't resist the opportunity when it saw the seemingly 'bizarre' scene unfolding (almost surreally) in front of it.... cover up!/hide!!/disguise!!! - and then this throw on circle of something so thin it's usually only ever seen in a factory that makes blue rizzlas (I swear it was tissue paper)!! Didn't you hear it Andy? ..calling out it was! 'look how well I can do my job.. not even Butch giving his records away free could get me off this record!' er.... NO! I don't think so somehow! Here... let me show you exactly what I mean... The rest, as they say, is history!! It would never have occured to me, in the circumstances, there could be a rational method to your madness.

Being an avid fellow fanatic, collector, and pursuer, of all things relative to the music we all hold in such reverence - my passion and sincerety go hand in hand with my integrity (and respect) for all like-minded soulies, regardless of if they are 'Joe Punter' or an individual who is 'infamous' for their recognised contribution to 'the scene'.

I acknowledge completely how my purely innocent act of playfulness could, justifiably, be construed as a deliberate act of attempted sabotage... and apologise wholeheartedly to the parties concerned for unintentionally creating a situation that has giving rise to a perception of apparent disrespect.

I have confidence in the faith of the people who do know me to empathise with the situation of circumstance I have unwittingly made myself a victim of, and sincerely hope I have now dispelled any misconceptions created by my actions.

But, in particular Andy, I hope I have restored your faith in me as a person.

Fingers

Edited February 5, 2008 by FickleFingers

[Manfromsoul45s]

Not at all, but you do use my remarks, in your posts, which leads me to retort.

Just thought the Butch/Bottle of Jack was a silly thing to say, so I repied to that also. Didn't think it was aimed at me alone, but just wanted to make the point that Just cos Butch is a so-called top DJ and has had a drink, why should anyone give a flying f**k, and be scared to give their oppinion? He's a little old fella, not Chuck Norris, or God!

Again you see, your missing my point. After half a bottle of JD Butch can give you a very lyrically intellectual and insightful argument better than he can over say a nice chianti. need to stop thinking people want to beat ya up...

[Dysonsoul]

Is someone actually doing this Andy? That is totaly despicable! I hope when I have heard it out, it was a real one, I'm sure it was, as I don't normaly frequent places that would do that kind of thing. Don't think Tim's clip did much, really. Can't cut off it, and anyone who has heard it played out could have mentioned it sounded like Tommy Tate. The info was there to find. I know you are a bit miffed about it coming to light Andy, but it won't detract from it in the least. As you said its a needle in a haystack tune and if a few more are found then maybe some of those that don't get to hear it played out might get to hear it and actually boost its popularity. I agree it is a heluva tune! Who are "These leaches" Andy? 90% of people on the scene, myself included, fall into that catagory if 'feeding of others' as leaches do, is the point. Dj's since the scene began, found tunes to play out, and the collectors rushed to find 'em, that's how it works. Virtualy every record I have ever bought has been because I heard it played out, or on a tape, or at a mates house and thought "ooh I like that! will have to get one!" I suppose that is true for virtually everyone that collects. Leaches is a bit strong, IMHO.

From a different angle, and not in anyway aimed at anyone, just again MHO, the northern scene is virtualy unique in the covering up stakes. I don't agree with 'em anymore, havn't for a long while, because the DJ didn't MAKE the record, he only FOUND it, but are/were, hero worshipped by many. The artist that made it, made it for people to hear, and hopefully buy.

Of course we know that didn't often happen. To cover it up is as good as saying to the poor bloke, "I'm gonna play your record, but I'm not even going to tell them it was you! They will never know it was your singing they enjoyed 'cos your not really important, I am! If I hadn't found it, no-one would have heard of you anyway, so I'll take all the credit, thank you very much!" Just MHO of course I'm sure others will view it differently. Not being all sanctimonious about this, I'm just as bad, I sold two records for a £1000 last week, and don't give a second thought to if the poor sods that made 'em are in the gutter. Just think its a bit of "It's my ball and your not playing" with C/ups these days.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about big boys and cheque books,everybody has the same oppertunities in life,knowledge is a real hard road to follow and certain tunes in this day and age need to have some mystique to them ! nope i ain't miffed that the 45's details are known it's the way in which they have been brought to light and handed on a plate.A cutting edge dj's tools are his records if they get stolen or damaged he can't work bearing in mind the dj's play as a labour of love everytime.

All are equal on this scene,whoever finds a great record deserves a pat on the back ,all this shite about artists not getting credited or payed is pants -the record came out in most cases flopped cos nobody bought it end of story..the recognition comes when it's played out at a venue covered up or not.

nowadays the odds are stacked against keeping sounds sacred for niter spins,you know if certain people think balls to it and don't look for new stuff or play it out the future is bleak does make you wonder sometimes..

[Cover-up]

the northern scene is virtualy unique in the covering up stakes.

Well, of course, it all originated with reggae sound systems in Jamaica, and was also utilised with hip-hop block parties in the seventies. Just another two examples of DJ driven scenes, where competitiveness amongst DJs elevated the music to new levels...

[Guest Trevski]

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about big boys and cheque books,everybody has the same oppertunities in life,knowledge is a real hard road to follow and certain tunes in this day and age need to have some mystique to them ! nope i ain't miffed that the 45's details are known it's the way in which they have been brought to light and handed on a plate.A cutting edge dj's tools are his records if they get stolen or damaged he can't work bearing in mind the dj's play as a labour of love everytime.

All are equal on this scene,whoever finds a great record deserves a pat on the back ,all this shite about artists not getting credited or payed is pants -the record came out in most cases flopped cos nobody bought it end of story..the recognition comes when it's played out at a venue covered up or not.

nowadays the odds are stacked against keeping sounds sacred for niter spins,you know if certain people think balls to it and don't look for new stuff or play it out the future is bleak does make you wonder sometimes..

Sorry Andy, but I never mentioned Cheque books, except to say "Not bothered about 'cheque book charlies' if they have the dosh, good luck to 'em, I'd do the same." Seems I always get mis-quoted on here! I didn't use the term "Cheque book Charlies" either, that was someone else I was replying to. No problems with "Big boys' either, as you say, all equal, there are no big boys to me just some that do better than others, mainly because they work harder at it, and good luck to 'em. Only problem I have is with those that see Themselves as big boys and get a bit high and mighty. ( You of, course, Andy, are not one of those. You are a gent and treat everyone 

the same.) As for finding new stuff to play, long may it continue, and hat's off to those that find 'em. Just don't see the point in covering 'em anymore. Thats just MHO of course, no big deal.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Trevski

[Ficklefingers]

Absolutely and totally a TOP NIGHT!!! Location, venue, music, people, sales, purchases... Everything!! Loved the layout of the venue and the quality of the music is unquestionable. Not fortunate enough to be aware of this w/ender in time to attend for more than the one night - but next year!! Can't wait.. my heartfelt gratitude to all who help make Lifeline possible BRILL!!

Thank you, Andy, for acknowledging my Saturday attendance - and I accept your intent, in making the mention, as nothing other than sincere... as that is the sort of person I have come to know you as, and just one of many reasons why I have a good deal of respect for you.

I would be the first to admit that, yep... you're right! The use of 'intelligence' (when I undertook my dastardly deed of blowing that 'label' off the record), I feel/felt, wasn't required - as my intent was purely one of 'a little joviality' and something I felt would appeal to your particular sense of mischievousness!

I hold my hands up and acknowledge the fact that, in the scheme of what's going on with this thread, had I used 'intelligence'... of course - I would've opted for a more 'appropriate' moment to display my mischief!

I suppose it is one of those 'ironies of fate'... that it would turn out to be this 'bone of contention', and topic now under discussion here, that just happened to be the 45 on the decks at the time of my misdemeanor!!

Whilst, since my return last November, I have heard mention of a 'Lt Jerry c/up' (outstanding spins will always create a need for dj's, collectors, & dancers alike - even just 'listeners', to discuss with others the merits of 'special' tunes they hear), my first audio exposure of this awesome tune was when you were playing it! The very same time the 'offence' took place!!

The significance (so it turns out) of it being this particular record was neither a thought nor consideration in executing my faux pas. Rather.. it was solely the scenario itself that drove my wickedness! That little devil inside of me couldn't resist the opportunity when it saw the seemingly 'bizarre' scene unfolding (almost surreally) in front of it.... cover up!/hide!!/disguise!!! - and then this throw on circle of something so thin it's usually only ever seen in a factory that makes blue rizzlas (I swear it was tissue paper)!! Didn't you hear it Andy? ..calling out it was! 'look how well I can do my job.. not even Butch giving his records away free could get me off this record!' er.... NO! I don't think so somehow! Here... let me show you exactly what I mean... The rest, as they say, is history!! It would never have occured to me, in the circumstances, there could be a rational method to your madness.

Being an avid fellow fanatic, collector, and pursuer, of all things relative to the music we all hold in such reverence - my passion and sincerety go hand in hand with my integrity (and respect) for all like-minded soulies, regardless of if they are 'Joe Punter' or an individual who is 'infamous' for their recognised contribution to 'the scene'.

I acknowledge completely how my purely innocent act of playfulness could, justifiably, be construed as a deliberate act of attempted sabotage... and apologise wholeheartedly to the parties concerned for unintentionally creating a situation that has giving rise to a perception of apparent disrespect.

I have confidence in the faith of the people who do know me to empathise with the situation of circumstance I have unwittingly made myself a victim of, and sincerely hope I have now dispelled any misconceptions created by my actions.

But, in particular Andy, I hope I have restored your faith in me as a person.

Fingers

Just to clarify something I omitted from the above posting - which needs clarification from everyone's perspective:

I did actually see what the name of the label on this disc was.

I did not see the artist or title - BECAUSE I wasn't trying to.. If I wanted to it would've been easy enough!

I have not divulged the detail I did espy as part of this forum - as my first posting on this thread testifies to. Had I clocked all the details - I still would not divulge these in any 'public domain'! Not my style (& besides, I'd be too busy trying to secure a copy for myself - why tell the world when that would significantly reduce my chances of getting one?).

Points I felt I needed to air as I know how quickly (as has been proved here!) people are to jump to conclusions, and make assumtions without all the facts being either established or considered.

Things ain't always what they seem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fingers

Edited February 6, 2008 by FickleFingers

[Steve G]

I have not divulged the detail I did espy as part of this forum - as my first posting on this thread testifies to. Had I clocked all the details - I still would not divulge these in any 'public domain'!

Fingers

Well Uncle Tim Brown has mentioned it in the new Manifesto in a passing comment....

[Ficklefingers]

Well Uncle Tim Brown has mentioned it in the new Manifesto in a passing comment....

Soooooo... what's all the fuss about then???? Surely it isn't just the repeated expression of difference of opinion on the rights and wrongs of cover ups? 'cos that one has been going on for the past ten trillion years already So what is it then !?!

[Steve G]

Soooooo... what's all the fuss about then???? Surely it isn't just the repeated expression of difference of opinion on the rights and wrongs of cover ups? 'cos that one has been going on for the past ten trillion years already So what is it then !?!

just says things like that and Two Plus Two are unknown to most - it's in the context of oldies being far more popular these days. Don't get angry now Fingers.