Cheatin Kind, Don Gardener

[Soulman]

Sorry what do you mean, what is the chance of a UK collector having Don Gardner in the loft or the Inspirations for that matter, virtually nil unless it's that guy with Frank Wilson on Joker

Think about it. Somebody is into Northern. They buy, they collect. and then something happens. The records get put aside. I have never dropped out of the scene but, a mate of mine came round not so long ago, delved deep into boxes I never open, and found things I didn't even know I had. That's how easy it is to forget. There are those who have dropped out of the scene completely, and I can name a few who had collections with big records in there. What has happened to them. They are stashed away but they add to the number of supposed rarities... all of a sudden things arent so rare.

[Soulman]

Repeat post: I know of many collectors who have dropped out of the scene and yet retain their collection. I too have had friends round who have delved into boxes and found things that I didnt even know I had. Its that easy. When I DJ, I tend to move on and go with trends, modern, crossover... whatever. I have records that were big then and rare now. Due to a lack of integrity, I didnt realise this. I've sold £1000's of pounds worth of records, all from Anderson, which I got for pennies by comparison. Frank Wilson is the only record that is almost guaranteed a three copy status. Frank Beverly is down to two, contrary to what Tim Brown says. The only record that is a one off, is an acetate cut by some two bit artist on a cutting machine back in 64 or beyond. It may be good... but its not a record. Records were pressed in quantity in the sixties and somewhere, they are there... unless they are destroyed. That has come from the label owners, artists and distributors. If you want numbers, I will provide, without sounding big headed

[Guest inspirations001]

i agree with you tony. i cant see a 1000 or so inspirations or don gardner. prob 10 of each if that. re wylie hester, great songwriters no less but some of their stuff is pants and a bit samey to say the least!

[Sean Hampsey]

i agree with you tony. i cant see a 1000 or so inspirations or don gardner. prob 10 of each if that.

I can't see a 1,000 copies of Don Gardner "We're Gonna Make It Big" on a 45... never mind a Cheating Kind!

[Tony Smith]

Repeat post: I know of many collectors who have dropped out of the scene and yet retain their collection. I too have had friends round who have delved into boxes and found things that I didnt even know I had. Its that easy. When I DJ, I tend to move on and go with trends, modern, crossover... whatever. I have records that were big then and rare now. Due to a lack of integrity, I didnt realise this. I've sold £1000's of pounds worth of records, all from Anderson, which I got for pennies by comparison. Frank Wilson is the only record that is almost guaranteed a three copy status. Frank Beverly is down to two, contrary to what Tim Brown says. The only record that is a one off, is an acetate cut by some two bit artist on a cutting machine back in 64 or beyond. It may be good... but its not a record. Records were pressed in quantity in the sixties and somewhere, they are there... unless they are destroyed. That has come from the label owners, artists and distributors. If you want numbers, I will provide, without sounding big headed

So there must be loads of copies of the Combinations on Kellmac knocking about in lofts then

[Tony Smith]

I found this in the loft

Edited January 27, 2008 by Tony Smith

[Prophonics 2029]

Freakin ell mate U lacky baggar

[Dave Rimmer]

As I understand it, to be cost effective, the minimum press was 500 if only to get to the local stations. Take into account freebies and family hand outs and you could be getting up 1000 on any record at not much more cost. The question to be asked is were they destroyed... something which happened frequently way back when.

The minimum pressing run was 300 in the Sixties for most American pressing plants. Admittedly most records were pressed in a minimum of a 1000 copies, which generally worked out as 900 to sell and 100 to give out as freebies.

[Guest]

dunno about price Harry (weren't most things a fiver then ) but certain it was Mecca spin for Levine.

Chalky,

Sorry mate, but this is how the truth gets "lost" because people are "certain", I suppose he played it after "Paris Blues"!

FACT:

John Anderson found the first copy. Sold it to me for £3.00 the same day he sold me Andre Maurice - Cream Of The Crop - for £60!! ouch!

I played Don Gardner regular at Cleethorpes Pier for about 6 months. It did not take off, then one Sunday in 1976 I played it at the Ritz All Dayer Manchester during the Miracles - City Of Angels LP track era of new releases..again it bombed.

Ian Levine bought Don Gardner from me for £3.00 that very day, along with Inspirations on Breakthrough £20.00 and The Utopias on Lasalle for another stupid bargain sum. I think that will go down as the best deal anyone got, last century..and as such should be kept documented and correct.

As for how many copies?? Very, very few and even less now, since Barry Simpson's copy ended up in multiple pieces thanks to a Fed-Ex truck driver. I'm trying plucking up the courage to fame it..

Edited January 27, 2008 by john manship

[Guest]

As I understand it, to be cost effective, the minimum press was 500 if only to get to the local stations. Take into account freebies and family hand outs and you could be getting up 1000 on any record at not much more cost. The question to be asked is were they destroyed... something which happened frequently way back when.

If you talk to people who actually have expereince of indie soul releases, many, many indie Soul 45s are actually documented as only 100 runs of 45s.(ask John Ridley). As for cost-effective, i don't think that occurred to many black americans at the time about cost, all that mattered is could we even afford to press any at all. Which of course sometimes they couldn't..

I know the UKs most sought 60s beat after 45 by The Quakers on Studio 36 a local Melton Mowbray band, the drummer told me they only made 50. i've had 3 copies over the years. Then again, another local M.M. band Prowler their first record (very valuable) they pressed 1000 and I've only managed to two in 30 years.

There are no rules, if you talk to the old-time vinyl hounds they'll tell you horrific stopries of raiding skips in the sixties full of vinyl.. Don Gardner is a record I would say has "proven rarity".

Every record carries it's own story as to when and what happened to them. To debate it being found in old collectors attic is more a dream than reality. Nice dream though..

[Mark B]

probably. i've heard colin curtis played a lot of better tunes than ian l at the mecca, salvadores,robbie lawson etc. sam prob got his copy off levine/curtis when they went all jazzfunk circa 76/77.

ian levine said he sold his copy to richard searling for £25.

mark

[Prophonics 2029]

ian levine said he sold his copy to richard searling for £25.

mark

In the day I bet that was a weeks wages for some people nearly two weeks for me as an apprentice.

50p to get into the Casino so now that would be say £15 = to £750

Edited January 27, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Mark B]

In the day I bet that was a weeks wages for some people nearly two weeks for me as an apprentice.

50p to get into the Casino so now that would be now £15 = to £750

itr would probably be when he sold up first time so when was that 1977 ? so £25 was probably about half a weeks wages i had just finished my apprenticeship, and i think the most i paid in those days was a about a fiver.

mark

[Guest rushden]

Barry Simpson asked me to post on his behalf best John in sunny Queensland

'' Is this the one you mean john", you should have been on the receiving end guys, if you really want to know what a gut full of sick feels like. the dearest record ever broken in two. later i found a few shards in my dog "thelma`s" coat and ave them framed. but in tremendous john manship customer service i got a full refund. your great number one record dealer with whom i have dealt with for 30 years ''

Chalky,

Sorry mate, but this is how the truth gets "lost" because people are "certain", I suppose he played it after "Paris Blues"!

FACT:

John Anderson found the first copy. Sold it to me for £3.00 the same day he sold me Andre Maurice - Cream Of The Crop - for £60!! ouch!

I played Don Gardner regular at Cleethorpes Pier for about 6 months. It did not take off, then one Sunday in 1976 I played it at the Ritz All Dayer Manchester during the Miracles - City Of Angels LP track era of new releases..again it bombed.

Ian Levine bought Don Gardner from me for £3.00 that very day, along with Inspirations on Breakthrough £20.00 and The Utopias on Lasalle for another stupid bargain sum. I think that will go down as the best deal anyone got, last century..and as such should be kept documented and correct.

As for how many copies?? Very, very few and even less now, since Barry Simpson's copy ended up in multiple pieces thanks to a Fed-Ex truck driver. I'm trying plucking up the courage to fame it..

[Guest]

Barry Simpson asked me to post on his behalf best John in sunny Queensland

'' Is this the one you mean john", you should have been on the receiving end guys, if you really want to know what a gut full of sick feels like. the dearest record ever broken in two. later i found a few shards in my dog "thelma`s" coat and ave them framed. but in tremendous john manship customer service i got a full refund. your great number one record dealer with whom i have dealt with for 30 years ''

it's been hidden in a box in the cupboard, i can't bring myself to look at it... well you've framed it for me, thanks fior starting my day off right.

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Barry Simpson asked me to post on his behalf best John in sunny Queensland

'' Is this the one you mean john", you should have been on the receiving end guys, if you really want to know what a gut full of sick feels like. the dearest record ever broken in two. later i found a few shards in my dog "thelma`s" coat and ave them framed. but in tremendous john manship customer service i got a full refund. your great number one record dealer with whom i have dealt with for 30 years ''

What an absolutely sickening sight . Nightmares are made of this.

Brian

[Guest moggy]

with you on this baz not my fav tune either... remember clive jones from midlands has this back in the late eighties early nineties

also heard about the one one the way to oz...

Used to cadge a lift up to Wigan with CJ in his VW camper van way back in the days

Although not everyones cup of tea old Jona

Boy did he have a collection, and his sales boxes were always filled with big ticket items £20-£30 back then, which was a lot of money in them days, well to me it was

Last spoke with Clive around 20 years ago on the phone, he was not doing much DJing except for scooter runs etc, as that was his main job/hobby selling scooters & had all but stopped on the Northern scene

but he told me he had still got virtualy all of his collection & proceeded to name some records you do not see, even now 20 years on

Its just a take on the collectors who dissapear and take some big ticket items with them maybe not to be seen again, not so much in the loft, but just do not bother and left a couple of decades ago taking there £5 choons with them or £50 choons in Clives case

PS anyone know what Clives up too these days

Edited January 29, 2008 by moggy

[Corbett80]

File that pic alongside that one of the cracked Gwen Owens that was posted on here.

I don't want to look but I can't help it......

Edited February 1, 2008 by mulf

[Munchkin]

Used to cadge a lift up to Wigan with CJ in his VW camper van way back in the days

Although not everyones cup of tea old Jona

Boy did he have a collection, and his sales boxes were always filled with big ticket items £20-£30 back then, which was a lot of money in them days, well to me it was

Last spoke with Clive around 20 years ago on the phone, he was not doing much DJing except for scooter runs etc, as that was his main job/hobby selling scooters & had all but stopped on the Northern scene

but he told me he had still got virtualy all of his collection & proceeded to name some records you do not see, even now 20 years on

Its just a take on the collectors who dissapear and take some big ticket items with them maybe not to be seen again, not so much in the loft, but just do not bother and left a couple of decades ago taking there £5 choons with them or £50 choons in Clives case

PS anyone know what Clives up too these days

not spoke to pam and clive for a few years but he had done really well for him self

sold the scooter shop and got into sports bikes,, sadly his son got killed racing a motorcycle, (on a race day) saw them both (pam/Clive) on terlly last summer giving a trophy to the winner of a race in memory of there son

[Guest moggy]

not spoke to pam and clive for a few years but he had done really well for him self

sold the scooter shop and got into sports bikes,, sadly his son got killed racing a motorcycle, (on a race day) saw them both (pam/Clive) on terlly last summer giving a trophy to the winner of a race in memory of there son

Thats really sad news, not wanting to sound morbid or anything like that

but do you know how old there son was Munchkin !

Blimey old Jona must have been/must be devastated

Amazing how out of touch we can become

Life really is too short at times