Cheatin Kind, Don Gardener

[good angel]

Just wondering how many copys are there of Don Gardener,-Cheatin Kind, on Sedgrick records,

When and where it was first played,

How much is it worth now?

I know what price it was supposed to have been sold for the last time,it came on the market.

Kev

[Mark B]

Just wondering how many copys are there of Don Gardener,-Cheatin Kind, on Sedgrick records,

When and where it was first played,

How much is it worth now?

I know what price it was supposed to have been sold for the last time,it came on the market.

Kev

dont know how many copies there are but do know that ian levine had this and may have played it at blackpool mecca but he sold it to richard searling so it might have been first spun at wigan.

mark

[Harry Crosby]

I have a picture somewhere of one in two halves, smashed in the post on its way to oz, i first heard it at the casino but don`t think this was the first place it was played

[Chalky]

could be wrong but wasn't it first played at The Mecca?

[Harry Crosby]

could be wrong but wasn't it first played at The Mecca?

Think thats what i heard chalky didn`t jm sell it to levine for a fiver?

[Chalky]

Think thats what i heard chalky didn`t jm sell it to levine for a fiver?

dunno about price Harry (weren't most things a fiver then ) but certain it was Mecca spin for Levine.

[Harry Crosby]

dunno about price Harry (weren't most things a fiver then ) but certain it was Mecca spin for Levine.

Too true mate oh for a time machine with a couple of hundred quid in yer pocket

[Guest gordon russell]

yes....first played at the mecca by latrine...not much though.Did'nt hear it much until SAM played it way after wigan. TONY PARKER once bought a copy from kitty wells for £120......then sold it some time later to Gary Spencer

[KevH]

played recently at THE ATTIC by a fairly local collector/dj,pricewise think he paid somewhere around 8k,but you get differing amounts from friends etc.So not entirely sure. .

[Guest biggray1]

could be wrong but wasn't it first played at The Mecca?

Yep I earholed this at Mecca back in 1975/6.Levine announced this as the only known copy..Oh my what a 45..class all the way...Gray

[Harry Crosby]

YEP ONE OF MY FAVOURITES ALONG WITH COURT DAVIS TOP TUNES

[Munchkin]

Got to admit,Im not fond of it , do a lot better for 8 to 10 grand

Bazza

with you on this baz not my fav tune either... remember clive jones from midlands has this back in the late eighties early nineties

also heard about the one one the way to oz...

[bri phill]

I sold a copy in !973 for £5 but don't remember who to,the only reason I know is a customer of mine reminded me about it on one of my lists.

regards Brian

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Possible most recent copy sold was by Paul Roberts from Colwyn Bay I believe to Mick H. Pricewise not sure, but speculation has it that it was nearer top dollar than 5 quid! .

Agree with Bazza - not my cup of tea.

Brian

[De-to]

Got to admit,Im not fond of it , do a lot better for 8 to 10 grand

Bazza

im with you bazza nice record but does not do it for me imo,

[good angel]

Possible most recent copy sold was by Paul Roberts from Colwyn Bay I believe to Mick H. Pricewise not sure, but speculation has it that it was nearer top dollar than 5 quid! .

Agree with Bazza - not my cup of tea.

Brian

I heard it was £10,000

But not many copys about,I bet Mr,Manship knows how many they are.

Well John, how many copys is there in circulation?

Kev

[Tony Smith]

Possible most recent copy sold was by Paul Roberts from Colwyn Bay I believe to Mick H. Pricewise not sure, but speculation has it that it was nearer top dollar than 5 quid! .

Agree with Bazza - not my cup of tea.

Brian

Thought it was 3 grand?

[Pete S]

yes....first played at the mecca by latrine...not much though.Did'nt hear it much until SAM played it way after wigan. TONY PARKER once bought a copy from kitty wells for £120......then sold it some time later to Gary Spencer

Pep used to play it both locally and at Wigan - late 76 early 77

[good angel]

Thought it was 3 grand?

It could well be Tony its only what I heard

Kev

[Guest gfarrington]

i asked this very same question of how many copies there are to a well know dj & friend (who shall remain nameless)we were at winsford ,must be about 3/4 years ago .This person is very knowledgable & honest with his advice he thought about it for a while & came up with at least eight names of the lucky owners that he knew of ( he isnt one of them)

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Thought it was 3 grand?

My ear is fairly close to the ground here in North Wales; Paul would know his values and can't see anyway that he would have let it go for £3k. There's always wild speculation about these things, and without wishing to add more to it by quoting (speculative) absolute figures, my understanding is that it was much nearer the higher figures mentioned in this thread than £3k.

Brian

[Dave Abbott]

Thought it was 3 grand?

sounds not a bad price, compared to some that are a bad price

personally i think its great

[davidwapples]

a copy went for 8 grand via joe dunlop a while back but i think that there were trades involved for around 3/5 000 of the money

[Guest inspirations001]

i'm sure i remember john m, telling me he let it go for £3 once! i think he got close to 7k for his last one but don't quote me on that. richard didn't have a copy til the casino was on it's last legs.he did a swap with sam, for cheating kind,damon fox, and another big 60's tune,for something like,top cat c/u, zz and co and one other 70's big thing,as he wanted the 70's tunes. think mr s got the better deal!! it was always a sam record was don gardner, think back to johnny hampton,jimmy burns, larry clinton etc all big for the teacher man! memory is a bit hazy,but i'm sure this is what happened!

[Lenny Harkins]

Got to admit,Im not fond of it , do a lot better for 8 to 10 grand

Bazza

agree mate, never been for me, nice tune but youll get better for the doe. imo.

[Prophonics 2029]

Anyone know what the B-sides like and a sound clip, most of Don's tunes have 2 good sides.

Did Dave Rastrick have a copy back in the late 70ts sure I remember him playing it and not Sam.

I thought Shiifty sold his for 10K and Mick H has had his copy for years.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Tony Smith]

My ear is fairly close to the ground here in North Wales; Paul would know his values and can't see anyway that he would have let it go for £3k. There's always wild speculation about these things, and without wishing to add more to it by quoting (speculative) absolute figures, my understanding is that it was much nearer the higher figures mentioned in this thread than £3k.

Brian

Just going on what I heard from the buyer (although what people say they pay for records and what they really do, is not a new thing is it )

i'm sure i remember john m, telling me he let it go for £3 once! i think he got close to 7k for his last one but don't quote me on that. richard didn't have a copy til the casino was on it's last legs.he did a swap with sam, for cheating kind,damon fox, and another big 60's tune,for something like,top cat c/u, zz and co and one other 70's big thing,as he wanted the 70's tunes. think mr s got the better deal!! it was always a sam record was don gardner, think back to johnny hampton,jimmy burns, larry clinton etc all big for the teacher man! memory is a bit hazy,but i'm sure this is what happened!

All true..Deal or no deal? DEAL! the other record was Sam's Johnny Moore c/u alias Johnny Honeycut on Triode

[Guest inspirations001]

can't remember j,honeycutt being c/up but i'll take your word for it mate. i actually thought it was william powell (bobby jason c/u) that he got off a,fenn! still can't remember the 70's tune but it may have been roy dawson(james mack c/u).

[Tony Smith]

Back to Don Gardner, Colin Curtis also played it at the Mecca along with things like Herbert Hunter after Ian L. had gone New York, was that Ian's copy?

[Guest inspirations001]

probably. i've heard colin curtis played a lot of better tunes than ian l at the mecca, salvadores,robbie lawson etc. sam prob got his copy off levine/curtis when they went all jazzfunk circa 76/77.

[Jim G]

JM sold his for £8K ish to a buyer in Australia last year if memory serves me right

[Prophonics 2029]

I just got that Don + Baby Washington LP, the best track for me Is Stand By Me killer funk ballad.

[Guest inspirations001]

well i was only a grand out!! didn't kenny burrell pay 10k for one. as a great record 10k is ok as opposed to 15k for bleeding frank wilson! makes cheating kind cheap for the quality! inspirations at 7k is the bargain of the century!

[Prophonics 2029]

well i was only a grand out!! didn't kenny burrell pay 10k for one. as a great record 10k is ok as opposed to 15k for bleeding frank wilson! makes cheating kind cheap for the quality! inspirations at 7k is the bargain of the century!

Is that the Johnny Hendley one. I can get a listen a sum point then or has Mick Smith got it as well.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Guest inspirations001]

johnny hendley!!! it's the first issue(and only one for me) with the blank b side. hasn't ron peddley got a copy? can anyone verify who IS the lead singer?

[Tony Smith]

johnny hendley!!! it's the first issue(and only one for me) with the blank b side. hasn't ron peddley got a copy? can anyone verify who IS the lead singer?

Johnny Hendley (of John & the Wierdest) is the vocalist on Breakthrough 1001, this has been covered at length before, Chalky will know where the links are, Mick Smith has a copy, Gilly's old copy went to Tim Brown, Pat Brady had an alternate take on acetate (not Charles Diamond), for me this is still one of the greatest true Northern rarities.

[Guest inspirations001]

if that's true i'm amazed i can't see it myself but will bow to others superior knowledge! i can see the resemblence in john hendley/jon and wierdest but not on inspirations. agree it's one of the best ever records and for me the best ever, period! can anyone supply the alt version of pats? would love to hear it!

[Prophonics 2029]

Johnny Hendley (of John & the Wierdest) is the vocalist on Breakthrough 1001, this has been covered at length before, Chalky will know where the links are, Mick Smith has a copy, Gilly's old copy went to Tim Brown, Pat Brady had an alternate take on acetate (not Charles Diamond), for me this is still one of the greatest true Northern rarities.

Think I have seen them all.

[Guest inspirations001]

so how many are there? real one i mean not the crappy re issue/boot that that girl on ebay knocks out once a year on ebay!

[Tony Smith]

if that's true i'm amazed i can't see it myself but will bow to others superior knowledge! i can see the resemblence in john hendley/jon and wierdest but not on inspirations. agree it's one of the best ever records and for me the best ever, period! can anyone supply the alt version of pats? would love to hear it!

Label owner Joey Jefferson (Breakthrough/Mutt & Jeff) cut several versions of "No One.. " Johnny Hendley being the one on 1001, it wasn't a released record hence being one sided, either being used for publishing purposes or just to test the water, the first Proper release being Sunlovers "Make the Grade", Inspirations was a Joey Jefferson name and with a few groups of the same name, Sunlovers was chosen. Famously Joey Jefferson has spoken of being ripped off by english collectors, probably Simon S got there before anyone else, Neil Rushton said he saw a 25 count box there back in the 70's but couldn't prise a copy out, in 1977 aware of the popularity Joey Jefferson released a new version (original backing track+ new vocal by Charles Diamond, who confusingly had been one of the vocalists on the first takes..the saga continues..

[Tony Smith]

so how many are there? real one i mean not the crappy re issue/boot that that girl on ebay knocks out once a year on ebay!

I know 2 definate Breakthrough copies I've seen them.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Tony Smith

[Soulman]

Deffo a Mecca tune although I think Ian let Tony Jebb play it (as far as my memory goes and that's pickled so don't quote me on that). Richard certailnly picked up on it for Wigan but it really hit it's first height at Stafford. I bought one from a guy at the Fleet in Peterborough for £80. He also had the Frank Beverly on Rouser and wanted the same price. Guess I made something of a mistake although I've made a few of them in time. Sold mine for around £400 back in the mid Eighties after taking advice from me old mater John Anderson. Same as Larry Clinton issue, Little John "Just Wait and See" on GoGate and so many more. Financially I gained so I'm not bitter. Just wish I had them all now because I could pay off my (bigger than I would like) mortgage!!!

[Guest inspirations001]

well richard i think had the blank side one, and i'm sure arthur fenn found one in late 70's,i don't care it's still rare and it's still fooking brilliant! many records are rare, doesn't mean they are good, dotty and milly,ken barlow(sorry dean barlow)! spring to mind. i wouldn't give you tuppence for those two,same with stanley mitchell/sam ward, repetative crap or what? and where's the SOUL!!!!

[Soulman]

Having helped John Anderson and living close by (at the time) I can tell you he has had at least 20 if not 30 copies through his hands. It's one of those records that will be up in lofts somewhere and is not as rare as people think. Its still great, ultra soulful and unique. But to pay in excess of 10k for somewthing that was pressed in over 1000 count is crazy.

[Tony Smith]

Having helped John Anderson and living close by (at the time) I can tell you he has had at least 20 if not 30 copies through his hands. It's one of those records that will be up in lofts somewhere and is not as rare as people think. Its still great, ultra soulful and unique. But to pay in excess of 10k for somewthing that was pressed in over 1000 count is crazy.

I agree if your on about Don G. but Inspirations was never pressed at 1000!

[Soulman]

well richard i think had the blank side one, and i'm sure arthur fenn found one in late 70's,i don't care it's still rare and it's still fooking brilliant! many records are rare, doesn't mean they are good, dotty and milly,ken barlow(sorry dean barlow)! spring to mind. i wouldn't give you tuppence for those two,same with stanley mitchell/sam ward, repetative crap or what? and where's the SOUL!!!!

Repetative crap... yes maybe. But the backbone of the detroit scene. Popcorn at his best, driving beat, chinks and all. The thing is, weve all heard it before but it still has the best beat and simply invites you on the floor.

[Soulman]

I agree if your on about Don G. but Inspirations was never pressed at 1000!

As I understand it, to be cost effective, the minimum press was 500 if only to get to the local stations. Take into account freebies and family hand outs and you could be getting up 1000 on any record at not much more cost. The question to be asked is were they destroyed... something which happened frequently way back when.

[Tony Smith]

Having helped John Anderson and living close by (at the time) I can tell you he has had at least 20 if not 30 copies through his hands. It's one of those records that will be up in lofts somewhere and is not as rare as people think. Its still great, ultra soulful and unique. But to pay in excess of 10k for somewthing that was pressed in over 1000 count is crazy.

Sorry what do you mean, what is the chance of a UK collector having Don Gardner in the loft or the Inspirations for that matter, virtually nil unless it's that guy with Frank Wilson on Joker

[Tony Smith]

As I understand it, to be cost effective, the minimum press was 500 if only to get to the local stations. Take into account freebies and family hand outs and you could be getting up 1000 on any record at not much more cost. The question to be asked is were they destroyed... something which happened frequently way back when.

My understanding is the record was purely a promotional exercise, testing the water in all areas, if you want more clarity ask Joey Jefferson.

[Guest inspirations001]

i'm with you tony, prob fewer than 10 copies known of inspirations, and prob the same with don gardner. re wylie hester, great songwriters etc, but some of their stuff is pants, down in the dumps, spaceland,sister lee, etc. i know lets get a riff and put it out on 10 or so different records!!! i know they did some great stuff, but some of it is a bit samey to say the least!