House Music

[urrrs]

FORGIVE ME "URRRS",

BUT AS I HAVE I HAVE NO MEANS OF IDENTIFYING WHO YOU ARE,I HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF THIS PARTICULAR "CONVERSATION".....

I DO REMEMBER THE FUNCTION THOUGH.

I FIND IT VEY VEY STRANGE HIC THAT I WOULD HAVE DISMISSED SOULFULL HOUSE AS "ALL SHIT", SEEING AS I HAVE BOUGHT FOR MY OWN ENJOYMENT, PLAYED AND DEEJAYED WITH WHAT I REGARD TO BE THE BEST EXAMPLES OF THIS PARTICULAR GENRE FOR MANY YEARS NOW.....

SOMEWHERE AROUND THE LATE 80`S/EARLY 90`S .

ANYONE WHO REALLY KNOWS ME WILL KNOW JUST HOW PASSIONATE I AM ABOUT SOME OF THIS STUFF.

DONT SUPPOSE YOU COULD HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD MY SARCASTIC NATURE AT ALL ?

I STAND BY WHAT I SAID EARLIER IN THE THREAD THOUGH........

I RECKON THE VAST MAJORITY OF IT IS SHIT.

AND MORE TO THE POINT,TOTALLY UNSUITABLE FOR THIS PARTICULAR SCENE.

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT DJ DICKHEAD AND HIS MATES DO ON THE HOUSE SCENE,ITS NOT RELEVANT HERE IS IT ?

MOST OF IT IS EITHER "TOO HARD",PRODUCTION WISE OR, NO SONG TO SPEAK OF AND JUST A GROOVE.OBVIOUSLY,SOME TRACKS WORK AS INSTRUMENTALS BUT BY AND LARGE ITS THE VOCAL STUFF WE LIKE ISNT IT ?

WHAT I LIKE IS SOUL MUSIC OF ALL DESCRIPTIONS AND STYLES. IN MY EXPERIENCE,MOST PEOPLE WHO BUY THIS STUFF DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND OR APPRECIATE STRAIGHT UP SOUL MUSIC ANYWAY. SURE,SOME DO BUT MOST DONT IVE FOUND.........

WHAT I CANT ABIDE THOUGH IS BEING TOLD WHAT I CAN AND CANT LIKE....

ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE GET THE TOTALLY WRONG END OF THE STICK.

IVOR

Ivor your not shouting are you ? Mate, I know what your into and I have great respect for that. We have crossed paths many times, from college and Simon Dunmore dos, all the way through the 100 club and beyond, so I have great admiration of your soul music styles, but you did make that comment. Which at the time did quite shock me, because it was not what I was expecting you to say. That said, you was a bit "worst for ware" .

I would not know now whether you are playing any soulful house mate as I'm in Aus now, but if you are, good on you.

You are right, not all Soulful House is good, very far from it, but when you do get a good track, Julie McKnight - Dimond life, Kenny Bobien - right away etc, I think they could be played in a modern room, right next to the best of the 80's90's and 21st Centry soul........oh and jazz funk. Ivor you remember what DDC's used top be like, now that was the late 80's and we were playing (at the start anyway) jazz funk, philly, Rare Groove,funk and northern and Simon's nights even have some hip hop on to of that list. What I see now is the Soul scene that's gone backwards. Funny thing is though, listen to Solar or Starpoint, and I hear quite a few shows that play a mix of styles, so why can't it be replicated on the DJ set ?

[urrrs]

Hi Urrrs,

Wasn't going to get involved in this thread but having just read your post I thought it was worthy of a reply.

I just wish there were more people on the Soul scene in the UK who thought this way.

You only have to read some of the threads on various forums (not just on here) to see how blinkered folks on both sides of the Soul scene can be.

At a weekender last year I even saw Northern punters walking through the Modern room with their fingers in their ears & saw Modern punters going into the Northern room purely & simply to take the p1ss out of folks over the way they dressed & danced.

Must make you wonder how folks from outside the Soul scene must view us & it's not hard to see why we can't get new faces onto the scene in the UK.

Now I'm not suggesting for one minute every Northern room books someone to do a full on House set for an hour & every Modern room books an oldies jock to break the night up but somewhere along the line common sense has to come into the equasion. All I'd like to see is a bit more acceptance of each others style of music instead of all the backstabbing & snide remarks that always seems to occur on both sides of the Soul scene.

Been racking my brains to think of a venue in the UK that really does play a broad spectrum of Soul music ranging from classic 60s right through to present day releases in equal measure in one room & I can only think of one place that I have visited that does it consistently well & thats the Red Bar in Wakefield, a night that is free admission & ran by a great group of lads of varying musical tastes who just do it for the love of the music.

Also saw a similar thing happen at a recent night in Sheffield at the Love & Happiness night at Qube.

Soul Sam was the main guest in the main room downstairs alongside Cliff Dale, the Pinches twins & myself playing Modern from the 70s to present day stuff & the upstairs room was playing classic 60s Northern.

At 12-30 the upstairs room closed so all the Northern punters found themselves in the Modern room & Sam was still on so he jumped into his sales box & started playing everything from things like the Velvet Satins & Margret Little right through to stuff like Urban Blues Project & Michael Proctor (& yes it does sound like Tom Jones ).

He finished off with R Kelly's Up & Outa Here & it was so refreshing to see die hard 60s & Modern fans all on the dancefloor together enjoying themselves.

Quality post Urrrs & hope you visit the site more often

Cheers Cunnie, lets keep our fingers crossed that the scene can start to move forward a bit

[Guest Bearsy]

On the flip though Bearsy, you've hit the nail on the head there mate....it's the house music that you, or whoever knows, that is the only way a subjective view is formed.

You really cannot give a biased view of anything unless you know what you're talking about.

A lot of posts that follow a 'Soulful House' thread are based upon a limited knowledge, I've not really got a problem with that at all, we all have a learning curve to sit on, I'm a realist (my knowledge is limited compared to others on here, I worked for it though)....but Christ! there's so much 'Soulful House' released worlwide weekly, it's unreal.

Look back a the history of the scene, how many die hard 60'a lovers (cue the flood ), haven't grown to accept certain 70's productions?

I know there will be a significant portion, yes, but, my age old argument is that to truly understand black music, you must see that there - year after year - is very little difference in production techniques.

get over the 'Boom - Tit', kick and hi hat production of 'Soulful House' and there's nothing more than a black man or woman singing.

I served Sam with 'House' for years and he would turn tracks down over certain production elements, no matter how worthy (I thought) or 'soulful, vocally, a track was.

But that's how people are - fair do's, each to their own.

On the back of that though, the story your alotted oracle (the person you face on the dancefloor at any given time) tells you, is just - and only - that.

His story...nobody elses.

If you can't think outside the box, at least stick your head over the edge...it'll pay dividends.

fair doo`s Barry but i didnt understand the original post of the thread, i do like house and i like soulful house and thats why i entered this thread as a very good lifelong mate is still into it big time and every now and then hits us with a few corkers that i think could or should be played in a modern room no problem, my point was im not sure, everything gets pigeon holed so much that each genre has its own distinctive style and for that its easier to label and when it is labelled those that maybe dont like that genre of music for a few not so good tunes or jsut dont know enough about it like myself might just close their ears to it like i do to funk but i do like some soul tunes with that funky edge to it, there you go i just pigeon holed , but is soulful house or house ready for the northern room (pigoens everywhere tonight ) thats what i thought the thread might of been about, i think a lot of it is not ignorence but many like to concentrate on the genre that rocks their boat the most, accross the board nights with an equal splattering of everything for me is the best way to go and probably the best way forward and before Simon M says anything about me only playing 60s i am slowly hearing new tunes from all these different takes of soul,

i hope that makes sense as it kind of does to me

[Simon M]

fair doo`s Barry but i didnt understand the original post of the thread, i do like house and i like soulful house and thats why i entered this thread as a very good lifelong mate is still into it big time and every now and then hits us with a few corkers that i think could or should be played in a modern room no problem, my point was im not sure, everything gets pigeon holed so much that each genre has its own distinctive style and for that its easier to label and when it is labelled those that maybe dont like that genre of music for a few not so good tunes or jsut dont know enough about it like myself might just close their ears to it like i do to funk but i do like some soul tunes with that funky edge to it, there you go i just pigeon holed , but is soulful house or house ready for the northern room (pigoens everywhere tonight ) thats what i thought the thread might of been about, i think a lot of it is not ignorence but many like to concentrate on the genre that rocks their boat the most, accross the board nights with an equal splattering of everything for me is the best way to go and probably the best way forward and before Simon M says anything about me only playing 60s i am slowly hearing new tunes from all these different takes of soul,

i hope that makes sense as it kind of does to me

Wow Bearsy what happend to you

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Ivor your not shouting are you ? Mate, I know what your into and I have great respect for that. We have crossed paths many times, from college and Simon Dunmore dos, all the way through the 100 club and beyond, so I have great admiration of your soul music styles, but you did make that comment. Which at the time did quite shock me, because it was not what I was expecting you to say. That said, you was a bit "worst for ware" .

I would not know now whether you are playing any soulful house mate as I'm in Aus now, but if you are, good on you.

You are right, not all Soulful House is good, very far from it, but when you do get a good track, Julie McKnight - Dimond life, Kenny Bobien - right away etc, I think they could be played in a modern room, right next to the best of the 80's90's and 21st Centry soul........oh and jazz funk. Ivor you remember what DDC's used top be like, now that was the late 80's and we were playing (at the start anyway) jazz funk, philly, Rare Groove,funk and northern and Simon's nights even have some hip hop on to of that list. What I see now is the Soul scene that's gone backwards. Funny thing is though, listen to Solar or Starpoint, and I hear quite a few shows that play a mix of styles, so why can't it be replicated on the DJ set ?

WELL I DIDNT REALIZE I WAS shouting ,ITS FUNNY BUT THATS BEEN SAID BEFORE ON HERE.I JUST FIND IT EASIER TO TYPE WITH CAPITALS[LESS MESSING ABOUT I`D SAY]..... .

ANYWAY, IM STILL NOT SURE WHO YOU ARE,[iTS NOT JOHN IS IT ?] AS YOU DIDNT TELL ME...

IF[AND ONLY IF ]I DID SAY IT WAS ALL SHIT, I WOULD ONLY HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO THE VAST BULK OF IT[WHICH I RECKON IS SHIT ].....BUT THEN WE AGREE ON THAT DONT WE ?

IVE GOT THE KENNY BOBIEN YOU MENTIONED BUT IMHO ITS JUST ANOTHER ALSO RAN. HE`S MADE SOME REALLY SUPERB RECORDS WHICH I`VE BEEN A MASSIVE FAN OF....[,PARTICULARLY "FATHER", "RISE ABOVE THE STORM",BLESSED" ,"U GAVE ME LOVE",ETC].... BUT THEN ITS ALL DOWN TO PERSONAL TASTE AINT IT ?

ALL IM SAYING IS ITS ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE THATS REALLY WORTHWILE FOR THIS SCENE.....

I KNOW WHAT I MEAN IF NO ONE ELSE DOES

I REALLY THINK IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO WHAT YOU USE AS A BENCHMARK FOR THE BEST MUSIC.

AS A FOOTNOTE,I THINK THE SCENE IS VERY FRAGMENTED,[ THOUGH ITS NOT QUITE AS GRIM AS YOUR IMPRESSION],THERE ARE NUMEROUS PEOPLE WHO HAVE WIDE RANGING TASTE IN THEIR SOUL MUSIC,SOMETHING I PERSONALLY AGREE WITH....THEY ALSO TEND TO BE THE FUNCTIONS THAT I ATTEND.OF COURSE,IT IS POSSIBLE TO MIX UP ALL STYLES IN ONE SPOT, THE MAIN PROBLEM YOU ENCOUNTER FROM EXPERIENCE IS THAT MANY OF THE CROWD DONT SHARE IN THE MUSICAL OPENMINDEDNESS.

OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE DREADED CLEARING OF THE DANCEFLOOR

I JUST GOT THE HUMP BECAUSE IT LOOKED LIKE I WAS BEING PORTRAYED AS SOME JOHNNY COME LATELY JUMPING ON THE SOULFULL HOUSE BANDWAGON.....

NOT GUILTY YOUR HONOUR

IVOR

[Guest cardysharpy]

WELL I DIDNT REALIZE I WAS shouting ,ITS FUNNY BUT THATS BEEN SAID BEFORE ON HERE.I JUST FIND IT EASIER TO TYPE WITH CAPITALS[LESS MESSING ABOUT I`D SAY]..... .

ANYWAY, IM STILL NOT SURE WHO YOU ARE,[iTS NOT JOHN IS IT ?] AS YOU DIDNT TELL ME...

IF[AND ONLY IF ]I DID SAY IT WAS ALL SHIT, I WOULD ONLY HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO THE VAST BULK OF IT[WHICH I RECKON IS SHIT ].....BUT THEN WE AGREE ON THAT DONT WE ?

IVE GOT THE KENNY BOBIEN YOU MENTIONED BUT IMHO ITS JUST ANOTHER ALSO RAN. HE`S MADE SOME REALLY SUPERB RECORDS WHICH I`VE BEEN A MASSIVE FAN OF....[,PARTICULARLY "FATHER", "RISE ABOVE THE STORM",BLESSED" ,"U GAVE ME LOVE",ETC].... BUT THEN ITS ALL DOWN TO PERSONAL TASTE AINT IT ?

ALL IM SAYING IS ITS ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE THATS REALLY WORTHWILE FOR THIS SCENE.....

I KNOW WHAT I MEAN IF NO ONE ELSE DOES

I REALLY THINK IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO WHAT YOU USE AS A BENCHMARK FOR THE BEST MUSIC.

AS A FOOTNOTE,I THINK THE SCENE IS VERY FRAGMENTED,[ THOUGH ITS NOT QUITE AS GRIM AS YOUR IMPRESSION],THERE ARE NUMEROUS PEOPLE WHO HAVE WIDE RANGING TASTE IN THEIR SOUL MUSIC,SOMETHING I PERSONALLY AGREE WITH....THEY ALSO TEND TO BE THE FUNCTIONS THAT I ATTEND.OF COURSE,IT IS POSSIBLE TO MIX UP ALL STYLES IN ONE SPOT, THE MAIN PROBLEM YOU ENCOUNTER FROM EXPERIENCE IS THAT MANY OF THE CROWD DONT SHARE IN THE MUSICAL OPENMINDEDNESS.

OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE DREADED CLEARING OF THE DANCEFLOOR

I JUST GOT THE HUMP BECAUSE IT LOOKED LIKE I WAS BEING PORTRAYED AS SOME JOHNNY COME LATELY JUMPING ON THE SOULFULL HOUSE BANDWAGON.....

NOT GUILTY YOUR HONOUR

IVOR

That reminds me Ivor, when can I have my Danny Rampling live at Cream CD back- you've had it ages!

[oldsteve woomble]

On the soulful house front, anyone who's into it or might be thinking of dipping their toe in the waters of soulful houseyness & new & recent releases, why not come and see us at SOULFHULL on 8th March........... All are very welcome, whatever kind of soul you're into. But we're very, very cosy, so tickets in advance strongly recommended!

Steve

[urrrs]

WELL I DIDNT REALIZE I WAS shouting ,ITS FUNNY BUT THATS BEEN SAID BEFORE ON HERE.I JUST FIND IT EASIER TO TYPE WITH CAPITALS[LESS MESSING ABOUT I`D SAY]..... .

ANYWAY, IM STILL NOT SURE WHO YOU ARE,[iTS NOT JOHN IS IT ?] AS YOU DIDNT TELL ME...

IF[AND ONLY IF ]I DID SAY IT WAS ALL SHIT, I WOULD ONLY HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO THE VAST BULK OF IT[WHICH I RECKON IS SHIT ].....BUT THEN WE AGREE ON THAT DONT WE ?

IVE GOT THE KENNY BOBIEN YOU MENTIONED BUT IMHO ITS JUST ANOTHER ALSO RAN. HE`S MADE SOME REALLY SUPERB RECORDS WHICH I`VE BEEN A MASSIVE FAN OF....[,PARTICULARLY "FATHER", "RISE ABOVE THE STORM",BLESSED" ,"U GAVE ME LOVE",ETC].... BUT THEN ITS ALL DOWN TO PERSONAL TASTE AINT IT ?

ALL IM SAYING IS ITS ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE THATS REALLY WORTHWILE FOR THIS SCENE.....

I KNOW WHAT I MEAN IF NO ONE ELSE DOES

I REALLY THINK IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO WHAT YOU USE AS A BENCHMARK FOR THE BEST MUSIC.

AS A FOOTNOTE,I THINK THE SCENE IS VERY FRAGMENTED,[ THOUGH ITS NOT QUITE AS GRIM AS YOUR IMPRESSION],THERE ARE NUMEROUS PEOPLE WHO HAVE WIDE RANGING TASTE IN THEIR SOUL MUSIC,SOMETHING I PERSONALLY AGREE WITH....THEY ALSO TEND TO BE THE FUNCTIONS THAT I ATTEND.OF COURSE,IT IS POSSIBLE TO MIX UP ALL STYLES IN ONE SPOT, THE MAIN PROBLEM YOU ENCOUNTER FROM EXPERIENCE IS THAT MANY OF THE CROWD DONT SHARE IN THE MUSICAL OPENMINDEDNESS.

OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE DREADED CLEARING OF THE DANCEFLOOR

I JUST GOT THE HUMP BECAUSE IT LOOKED LIKE I WAS BEING PORTRAYED AS SOME JOHNNY COME LATELY JUMPING ON THE SOULFULL HOUSE BANDWAGON.....

NOT GUILTY YOUR HONOUR

IVOR

That's me mate.

I totally understand about the dreeded "clearing of the floor" though...

As for a johnny come lately Ivor, never !

Give my regards to Dave when you see him at the next Bisley........

JC

[Guest]

That's me mate.

I totally understand about the dreeded "clearing of the floor" though...

As for a johnny come lately Ivor, never !

Give my regards to Dave when you see him at the next Bisley........

JC

Is everybody ready ?........Shall we post up a bit of up-front funk house?........and few mad drum n Tech beats off Q Bass?

No?

The world will wait !

Edited January 31, 2008 by mossy

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Maybe I spent too much time playing the Arcade Video Game mosheens. Any kind of electro-computer thing just sounds like a Space Invaders machine to me, and that means everything from those tuneless throbby things that need lots of flashing lights, volume, and the partaking of certain substances to make them sound exciting all the way through to Stock , Aitkin, & Waterpump.

Computers have no soul, sequencers have no funk. What they do have is a relentless, mind numbing beat that is incapable of slowing down, speeding up, or doing it 'One mo' time'. As such I'd have to say house is the German marching band's revenge.

[Mark R]

Maybe I spent too much time playing the Arcade Video Game mosheens. Any kind of electro-computer thing just sounds like a Space Invaders machine to me, and that means everything from those tuneless throbby things that need lots of flashing lights, volume, and the partaking of certain substances to make them sound exciting all the way through to Stock , Aitkin, & Waterpump.

Computers have no soul, sequencers have no funk. What they do have is a relentless, mind numbing beat that is incapable of slowing down, speeding up, or doing it 'One mo' time'. As such I'd have to say house is the German marching band's revenge.

Well, it must sound ike that to you I suppose..........depends what you're listening to, might not be the music I'm thinking of, but if it happens to be, then I'd say that's bollocks!!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Wrongcrowd]

Any kind of electro-computer thing just sounds like a Space Invaders machine to me, and that means everything from those tuneless throbby things that need lots of flashing lights, volume, and the partaking of certain substances to make them sound exciting all the way through to Stock , Aitkin, & Waterpump.

Does your mum know you're still up ? Are you old enough to be on here? It sounds to me like you're describing your school disco.

You should leave this to the grown ups.

[urrrs]

Is everybody ready ?........Shall we post up a bit of up-front funk house?........and few mad drum n Tech beats off Q Bass?

No?

The world will wait !

skinhead..........north wales...........says it all really

[Guest]

skinhead..........north wales...........says it all really

SURE DOES!

I can't really understand the relationship between "House" and the "Soul Scene"

I love "Northern Soul" for what is is. When I go to a "Northern Soul Event" I expect exactly that. Quality / Rare Soul.

When the mood takes me, I can go out for a mad night out to a "House event" and when I do I expect exactly that.

Imagine your at a House club......everybody is buzzing and off it......everybody is waiting for the breakdown........hands are just about to go up in the air.......And then the DJ drops say Freddie Houston - If I had known. What would the reaction be?

And I don't think it would be any different at a Soul event. If the crowd was grooving to say Mick H playing "Bill Bush" and he dropped a House tune (Soulful or not) straight after - What would the reaction be?

I am not just into Soul music, I love all types of things, but the fact is that there are different Scenes for exactly that reason. The Soul scene is special to me the way it is - Pure Soul Music.

You don't go to an event billed as a Scooter rally on a Suzuki Bandit do you? So why would you expect to hear House at a "Soul All Nighter" or "Soul" at a "House club"

I see a couple of Soulful "House" tracks are finding their way into the "Modern Soul" rooms - so what! Its good for DJs to experiment.

House will always be House and Soul will always be Soul, and only at the extreme fringes will the two ever meet!

And that's my opinion!

Edited January 31, 2008 by mossy

[urrrs]

SURE DOES!

I can't really understand the relationship between "House" and the "Soul Scene"

I love "Northern Soul" for what is is. When I go to a "Northern Soul Event" I expect exactly that. Quality / Rare Soul.

When the mood takes me, I can go out for a mad night out to a "House event" and when I do I expect exactly that.

Imagine your at a House club......everybody is buzzing and off it......everybody is waiting for the breakdown........hands are just about to go up in the air.......And then the DJ drops say Freddie Houston - If I had known. What would the reaction be?

And I don't think it would be any different at a Soul event. If the crowd was grooving to say Mick H playing "Bill Bush" and he dropped a House tune (Soulful or not) straight after - What would the reaction be?

I am not just into Soul music, I love all types of things, but the fact is that there are different Scenes for exactly that reason. The Soul scene is special to me the way it is - Pure Soul Music.

You don't go to an event billed as a Scooter rally on a Suzuki Bandit do you? So why would you expect to hear House at a "Soul All Nighter" or "Soul" at a "House club"

I see a couple of Soulful "House" tracks are finding their way into the "Modern Soul" rooms - so what! Its good for DJs to experiment.

House will always be House and Soul will always be Soul, and only at the extreme fringes will the two ever meet!

And that's my opinion!

well, at least it's an intelligent reply this time.......

I'm glad you like to go to house do's and then rare soul do's etc. Me, well the do's I remember going to in and around London played funk, Northern, Rare Groove, jazz funk and hip hop ( house was not on the scene then ). Now, I've been to plenty of just jazz funk do's and the same with 60's Northern and great nights there were. But have you seen the age of the punters at some of the Northen do's now, another ten years and we will start to need Zimmerframe parking, not car or scooter.

I think its now time for the scene to progress, and I believe there are a lot of youngsters out there that are into the more soulful house and dance that would enjoy some of the more modern tunes and who knows, might even like some of the rare stuff from the 60's. I believe that the only way they will get to hear this though is with a mixed bag of sounds.

What I find amazing is that at a 60's do, punters don't nessasary like every track, some they hate, but they don't walk out the nighter, but if it was a modern track....moan,moan,moan ! Whats the difference, you don't like a track, then fair enough, but give the DJ some credit for trying to push some boundaries.....

[Guest denmac]

And of course then it wouldn't be a forum would it

[Guest denmac]

And of course then it wouldn't be a forum would it

so what could you add to a modern forum as you have nothing positive to say about anything post wigan. so why dont you keep your comments to wigan et al.

[Guest denmac]

It all sounds the same to me

pete do you realise your replies all sound the same to us.

[Barry]

fair doo`s Barry but i didnt understand the original post of the thread, i do like house and i like soulful house and thats why i entered this thread as a very good lifelong mate is still into it big time and every now and then hits us with a few corkers that i think could or should be played in a modern room no problem, my point was im not sure, everything gets pigeon holed so much that each genre has its own distinctive style and for that its easier to label and when it is labelled those that maybe dont like that genre of music for a few not so good tunes or jsut dont know enough about it like myself might just close their ears to it like i do to funk but i do like some soul tunes with that funky edge to it, there you go i just pigeon holed , but is soulful house or house ready for the northern room (pigoens everywhere tonight ) thats what i thought the thread might of been about, i think a lot of it is not ignorence but many like to concentrate on the genre that rocks their boat the most, accross the board nights with an equal splattering of everything for me is the best way to go and probably the best way forward and before Simon M says anything about me only playing 60s i am slowly hearing new tunes from all these different takes of soul,

i hope that makes sense as it kind of does to me

Nice reply mate.

All I am saying is, and here is the question:

Would we have the term 'SOUL MUSIC' without currently released black American music?

No!

We wouldn't!

Which will eternally prove any argument against the progression of the afore-mentioned music, welll and truly VOID!

Newly produced black Ameican music may not be deemed 'Northern' but by my anal definition, has to be deemed (by histories pages alone) 'SOUL MUSIC'.

[Guest]

well, at least it's an intelligent reply this time.......

Now, I've been to plenty of just jazz funk do's and the same with 60's Northern and great nights there were. But have you seen the age of the punters at some of the Northen do's now, another ten years and we will start to need Zimmerframe parking, not car or scooter.

Thats the first time I have ever been accused of being intelligent, and to be honest I am feeling really uncomfortable now!

As for the Zimmerframe.............mine will be the chrome one with the mirrors n lights on the front and the whip areal on the back!

[Bully Boy]

pete do you realise your replies all sound the same to us.

Thats Cause They Are The Same Dennis

Yawn, Yawn,

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Does your mum know you're still up ? Are you old enough to be on here? It sounds to me like you're describing your school disco.

You should leave this to the grown ups.

Maybe I spent too much time playing the Arcade Video Game mosheens. Any kind of electro-computer thing just sounds like a Space Invaders machine to me

So how old would I have to be to have been playing Space Invaders in an arcade?

Never mind, when you grow up you too will be able to count.

I suppose it's too much to hope that people can stop insulting each other just because they have different tastes. I wish I liked Country & Western. At least those guys are friendly.

[Barry]

Soulful House tracks that qualify for discussion on SS are, and can only be, the tracks that NS dj's play (By definition - people that spend the majority of their time enjoying Northern/Modern - NOT lads that seek out quality 'House Music')

The ones that seem to be rolled out time and time again on here are the tracks that have the formulaic NS angle that must, it seems if it is to gain dancefloor acceptance anyhow, go with that.

You can only dig so far, with regard to what is deemed 'Soulful House - that is if you are a lad that spends the majority of his time loving music that has always been based around the traditional ideals of acceptable NS all nighter plays.

If you don't take the time out to understand any form of music, you never will - and if you are happy posting how terrible other forms of music are to the world, then good luck to you.

Heavy rock and country music used to sound the same to me, it still does if I'm honest, but I understand that other people get some kind of solace out of it - all the time you rattle negatively about stuff you aren't interested in is time you could have spent waxing lyrical about stuff that you love.

Do you think that lads that are into Modern give two shiny ones if a pure 60's Detroit fanatic tells 'em it's crap? They don't!

You can flip that last sentence any way you want.

All the NS dancefloor gets treated to, as regards 'Soulful House', are tracks that a long standing 60's/70's/80's Northern/Modern All Nighter lad deems worthy ,- generally, some kind of re-working of a standard, or something that uses 'those' chords and buzz-words that they believe they can get away with with nowt but a half-decent dancefloor reaction and not too much flak. Nowt wrong with that but this music has so much more to offer - and that's the stuuf that you won't hear.

See what a Cabbie says when he hears that you have been dj-ing and playing 'House Music' - it generally goes something like "Oh! All that 2 Unlimited stuff/Scouse House/Trance stuff?" Or whatever, I'm sure you get my drift!?

And why do you get that response?

Because - they base their view on nothing else other than what they are told by the media/radio (as that is all they are able to draw their information from - the radio is THEIR NS scene, THEIR dancefloor)

It's all about the information you allow yourself to be open to - all the Cabbie knows/can base his opinion on is whathe is told.

Again you can stick any form of music into the above statement.

Are you seeing how poor you can sound to other music lovers when you uninformedly rip the arse out of a form of music you don't really understand?

I'm not having a pop, just trying to get the point over - all you hear at Nighters (if all you hear is what you hear NS/All Niter jocks play), is just that - one lads view of 'Soulful House'.

There is so much more.

The DJ Genesis argument sums it up well - a bit of a buzz tune initially, that now seems to attract only derisory comments (See Dustin Wilson - 'Sympathy' etc and a plethora of other 'Modern' tracks given airtime then ignored over the years).

Does the fact that the scene majoritively see's it as unplayable make it a bad track? -D

Does it f*ck?

It's what happens on dancefloors, with anything as it happens -it's fashion - you wear the same T Shirt for three months and you are bored with it - nowt wrong with the old shirt, you are just a bit bored of it, so you buy a new 'un.

DJ Genesis was yet another 'House' scapegoat...but at heart it will always be what it was when it was produced - nowt but a nod to Betty, a beatifully made tribute, put together by a lass who gave enough of a shit to spend her time and money showing her faith - HER faith - HER tribute!

If you had put all that into your own Eddie Holman (whoever) tribute, I don't think you could find it in you to cheaply berate her efforts?

Could you? Should you?

Obviously, No!

....but loads have.

It's not her fault that Sam or whoever, decided that the time was right for her production to be given 'All Nighter-Time'.

Neither does it in my mind make her any less worthy of a round of applause for putting her money were her memories were.

That is all the only reason, obviously, that the track was given exposure on the NS scene - one man had the balls to play it and tracks of it's kind, no mean feat alone, but the tracks I see given space on here are the same old, same old.

I bet the majority of people on here, even the 60's folks, could do me a top twenty of accepted 'Soulful House' tracks fairly easily

Given the fact that sequenced 'House' tracks have been played on the Nighter scene since the 80's (Stinger J, Mink, Demetrius etc), I can't believe how blinkered the scene has been over the years.

For example, 'Keep On Pushing Love' is a major label release (RCA), studio sequenced, four to the floor House record - yes, the arrangement has a touch more sophistication, the tempo may be a tad more hip friendly - but that's about it - it is still by definition...a House record.

It may have the very pinnable Soul Medal of Our Al singing on it (Al's Soul isn't he?)

Name me another Al Green record that has been accepted on a NS dancefloor of late?

This particular track is a true example of a great soul vocalist being ignored by a scene (a scene built upon his kind) until a certain arrangement and mix was laid beneath his vocal.

An Al Green release played at a nighter majoritively for the mix alone and not the vocal - surely notl?

A sequenced, Housey mix at that!?

It is a HUGE scene, the 'Soulful House' (pigeon-hole) scene.

There are hundreds of quality all nighter playable 'Soulful House' releases weekly, both in the US and Europe - sadly the NS dancefloor gets to hear but a few.

I don't throw myself into these diatribes as I wish to see 70's/Modern rooms play more 'House', I am at heart a traditionalist and wouldn't want a quality Modern night that I was attending ruined with willy-nilly poorly chosen 'Soulful House' tracks - I've had nights ruined at nighters with exactly that scenario.

What I do think would help all nighters, is a radical re-think of how 'progressive'independant black music is showcased - it isn't difficult to put together a night that can incorporate traidtional all nigher based soul and House. Maleadey makes an effort.

It is no bigger a leap than the Northern room incorporating R&B or Popcorn.

I know I annoy some people with these posts of mine, I can see that.

What I do hope is that the people that I do aggravate may at least see the love I have for this scene.

I have it's traditional values built into me, I can't ever lose that.

I just don't want it to stagnate....and I believe there is a danger of that if people don't simply...listen.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Barry

[Barry]

Some really thoughtful posts there Barry and you know I'm so glad I came out of that box all those years ago! Life would be musically a much poorer place.

YO-YO Robin!!

Fancy a night out sometime?

[Guest hurryup]

Quite alot really

Sung by black soul Artists from Chicago, Detroit, New York, West Coast ect, ect. Many of them struggeling to make it big with limited white lable pressings hoping the big boys will sign them up.

4 beats to the bar

People going out every weekend enjoying and dancing to the music

There will be collectors willing to sell their mothers to get hold of the ellusive soulful house rarity in years to come

As with 60's soul you have to dig quite deep for the absolute blinders because there is alot of boom, boom, boom music with house.

Well the house music I know - as-well as funky house and trance, has nothing to do with

'northern soul' . It's not trying to be anything other than what it is (which is fantastic) and to call it 'disco,' in my opinion, is an insult.

I was brought up with tamla/soul etc in the 70's and have to admit to loving funky house and trance even more. I wished it was around 30 years ago

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

Soulful House tracks that qualify for discussion on SS are, and can only be, the tracks that NS dj's play (By definition - people that spend the majority of their time enjoying Northern/Modern - NOT lads that seek out quality 'House Music')

The ones that seem to be rolled out time and time again on here are the tracks that have the formulaic NS angle that must, it seems if it is to gain dancefloor acceptance anyhow, go with that.

You can only dig so far, with regard to what is deemed 'Soulful House - that is if you are a lad that spends the majority of his time loving music that has always been based around the traditional ideals of acceptable NS all nighter plays.

If you don't take the time out to understand any form of music, you never will - and if you are happy posting how terrible other forms of music are to the world, then good luck to you.

Heavy rock and country music used to sound the same to me, it still does if I'm honest, but I understand that other people get some kind of solace out of it - all the time you rattle negatively about stuff you aren't interested in is time you could have spent waxing lyrical about stuff that you love.

Do you think that lads that are into Modern give two shiny ones if a pure 60's Detroit fanatic tells 'em it's crap? They don't!

You can flip that last sentence any way you want.

All the NS dancefloor gets treated to, as regards 'Soulful House', are tracks that a long standing 60's/70's/80's Northern/Modern All Nighter lad deems worthy ,- generally, some kind of re-working of a standard, or something that uses 'those' chords and buzz-words that they believe they can get away with with nowt but a half-decent dancefloor reaction and not too much flak. Nowt wrong with that but this music has so much more to offer - and that's the stuuf that you won't hear.

See what a Cabbie says when he hears that you have been dj-ing and playing 'House Music' - it generally goes something like "Oh! All that 2 Unlimited stuff/Scouse House/Trance stuff?" Or whatever, I'm sure you get my drift!?

And why do you get that response?

Because - they base their view on nothing else other than what they are told by the media/radio (as that is all they are able to draw their information from - the radio is THEIR NS scene, THEIR dancefloor)

It's all about the information you allow yourself to be open to - all the Cabbie knows/can base his opinion on is whathe is told.

Again you can stick any form of music into the above statement.

Are you seeing how poor you can sound to other music lovers when you uninformedly rip the arse out of a form of music you don't really understand?

I'm not having a pop, just trying to get the point over - all you hear at Nighters (if all you hear is what you hear NS/All Niter jocks play), is just that - one lads view of 'Soulful House'.

There is so much more.

The DJ Genesis argument sums it up well - a bit of a buzz tune initially, that now seems to attract only derisory comments (See Dustin Wilson - 'Sympathy' etc and a plethora of other 'Modern' tracks given airtime then ignored over the years).

Does the fact that the scene majoritively see's it as unplayable make it a bad track? -D

Does it f*ck?

It's what happens on dancefloors, with anything as it happens -it's fashion - you wear the same T Shirt for three months and you are bored with it - nowt wrong with the old shirt, you are just a bit bored of it, so you buy a new 'un.

DJ Genesis was yet another 'House' scapegoat...but at heart it will always be what it was when it was produced - nowt but a nod to Betty, a beatifully made tribute, put together by a lass who gave enough of a shit to spend her time and money showing her faith - HER faith - HER tribute!

If you had put all that into your own Eddie Holman (whoever) tribute, I don't think you could find it in you to cheaply berate her efforts?

Could you? Should you?

Obviously, No!

....but loads have.

It's not her fault that Sam or whoever, decided that the time was right for her production to be given 'All Nighter-Time'.

Neither does it in my mind make her any less worthy of a round of applause for putting her money were her memories were.

That is all the only reason, obviously, that the track was given exposure on the NS scene - one man had the balls to play it and tracks of it's kind, no mean feat alone, but the tracks I see given space on here are the same old, same old.

I bet the majority of people on here, even the 60's folks, could do me a top twenty of accepted 'Soulful House' tracks fairly easily

Given the fact that sequenced 'House' tracks have been played on the Nighter scene since the 80's (Stinger J, Mink, Demetrius etc), I can't believe how blinkered the scene has been over the years.

For example, 'Keep On Pushing Love' is a major label release (RCA), studio sequenced, four to the floor House record - yes, the arrangement has a touch more sophistication, the tempo may be a tad more hip friendly - but that's about it - it is still by definition...a House record.

It may have the very pinnable Soul Medal of Our Al singing on it (Al's Soul isn't he?)

Name me another Al Green record that has been accepted on a NS dancefloor of late?

This particular track is a true example of a great soul vocalist being ignored by a scene (a scene built upon his kind) until a certain arrangement and mix was laid beneath his vocal.

An Al Green release played at a nighter majoritively for the mix alone and not the vocal - surely notl?

A sequenced, Housey mix at that!?

It is a HUGE scene, the 'Soulful House' (pigeon-hole) scene.

There are hundreds of quality all nighter playable 'Soulful House' releases weekly, both in the US and Europe - sadly the NS dancefloor gets to hear but a few.

I don't throw myself into these diatribes as I wish to see 70's/Modern rooms play more 'House', I am at heart a traditionalist and wouldn't want a quality Modern night that I was attending ruined with willy-nilly poorly chosen 'Soulful House' tracks - I've had nights ruined at nighters with exactly that scenario.

What I do think would help all nighters, is a radical re-think of how 'progressive'independant black music is showcased - it isn't difficult to put together a night that can incorporate traidtional all nigher based soul and House. Maleadey makes an effort.

It is no bigger a leap than the Northern room incorporating R&B or Popcorn.

I know I annoy some people with these posts of mine, I can see that.

What I do hope is that the people that I do aggravate may at least see the love I have for this scene.

I have it's traditional values built into me, I can't ever lose that.

I just don't want it to stagnate....and I believe there is a danger of that if people don't simply...listen.

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

Soulful House tracks that qualify for discussion on SS are, and can only be, the tracks that NS dj's play (By definition - people that spend the majority of their time enjoying Northern/Modern - NOT lads that seek out quality 'House Music')

The ones that seem to be rolled out time and time again on here are the tracks that have the formulaic NS angle that must, it seems if it is to gain dancefloor acceptance anyhow, go with that.

You can only dig so far, with regard to what is deemed 'Soulful House - that is if you are a lad that spends the majority of his time loving music that has always been based around the traditional ideals of acceptable NS all nighter plays.

If you don't take the time out to understand any form of music, you never will - and if you are happy posting how terrible other forms of music are to the world, then good luck to you.

Heavy rock and country music used to sound the same to me, it still does if I'm honest, but I understand that other people get some kind of solace out of it - all the time you rattle negatively about stuff you aren't interested in is time you could have spent waxing lyrical about stuff that you love.

Do you think that lads that are into Modern give two shiny ones if a pure 60's Detroit fanatic tells 'em it's crap? They don't!

You can flip that last sentence any way you want.

All the NS dancefloor gets treated to, as regards 'Soulful House', are tracks that a long standing 60's/70's/80's Northern/Modern All Nighter lad deems worthy ,- generally, some kind of re-working of a standard, or something that uses 'those' chords and buzz-words that they believe they can get away with with nowt but a half-decent dancefloor reaction and not too much flak. Nowt wrong with that but this music has so much more to offer - and that's the stuuf that you won't hear.

See what a Cabbie says when he hears that you have been dj-ing and playing 'House Music' - it generally goes something like "Oh! All that 2 Unlimited stuff/Scouse House/Trance stuff?" Or whatever, I'm sure you get my drift!?

And why do you get that response?

Because - they base their view on nothing else other than what they are told by the media/radio (as that is all they are able to draw their information from - the radio is THEIR NS scene, THEIR dancefloor)

It's all about the information you allow yourself to be open to - all the Cabbie knows/can base his opinion on is whathe is told.

Again you can stick any form of music into the above statement.

Are you seeing how poor you can sound to other music lovers when you uninformedly rip the arse out of a form of music you don't really understand?

I'm not having a pop, just trying to get the point over - all you hear at Nighters (if all you hear is what you hear NS/All Niter jocks play), is just that - one lads view of 'Soulful House'.

There is so much more.

The DJ Genesis argument sums it up well - a bit of a buzz tune initially, that now seems to attract only derisory comments (See Dustin Wilson - 'Sympathy' etc and a plethora of other 'Modern' tracks given airtime then ignored over the years).

Does the fact that the scene majoritively see's it as unplayable make it a bad track? -D

Does it f*ck?

It's what happens on dancefloors, with anything as it happens -it's fashion - you wear the same T Shirt for three months and you are bored with it - nowt wrong with the old shirt, you are just a bit bored of it, so you buy a new 'un.

DJ Genesis was yet another 'House' scapegoat...but at heart it will always be what it was when it was produced - nowt but a nod to Betty, a beatifully made tribute, put together by a lass who gave enough of a shit to spend her time and money showing her faith - HER faith - HER tribute!

If you had put all that into your own Eddie Holman (whoever) tribute, I don't think you could find it in you to cheaply berate her efforts?

Could you? Should you?

Obviously, No!

....but loads have.

It's not her fault that Sam or whoever, decided that the time was right for her production to be given 'All Nighter-Time'.

Neither does it in my mind make her any less worthy of a round of applause for putting her money were her memories were.

That is all the only reason, obviously, that the track was given exposure on the NS scene - one man had the balls to play it and tracks of it's kind, no mean feat alone, but the tracks I see given space on here are the same old, same old.

I bet the majority of people on here, even the 60's folks, could do me a top twenty of accepted 'Soulful House' tracks fairly easily

Given the fact that sequenced 'House' tracks have been played on the Nighter scene since the 80's (Stinger J, Mink, Demetrius etc), I can't believe how blinkered the scene has been over the years.

For example, 'Keep On Pushing Love' is a major label release (RCA), studio sequenced, four to the floor House record - yes, the arrangement has a touch more sophistication, the tempo may be a tad more hip friendly - but that's about it - it is still by definition...a House record.

It may have the very pinnable Soul Medal of Our Al singing on it (Al's Soul isn't he?)

Name me another Al Green record that has been accepted on a NS dancefloor of late?

This particular track is a true example of a great soul vocalist being ignored by a scene (a scene built upon his kind) until a certain arrangement and mix was laid beneath his vocal.

An Al Green release played at a nighter majoritively for the mix alone and not the vocal - surely notl?

A sequenced, Housey mix at that!?

It is a HUGE scene, the 'Soulful House' (pigeon-hole) scene.

There are hundreds of quality all nighter playable 'Soulful House' releases weekly, both in the US and Europe - sadly the NS dancefloor gets to hear but a few.

I don't throw myself into these diatribes as I wish to see 70's/Modern rooms play more 'House', I am at heart a traditionalist and wouldn't want a quality Modern night that I was attending ruined with willy-nilly poorly chosen 'Soulful House' tracks - I've had nights ruined at nighters with exactly that scenario.

What I do think would help all nighters, is a radical re-think of how 'progressive'independant black music is showcased - it isn't difficult to put together a night that can incorporate traidtional all nigher based soul and House. Maleadey makes an effort.

It is no bigger a leap than the Northern room incorporating R&B or Popcorn.

I know I annoy some people with these posts of mine, I can see that.

What I do hope is that the people that I do aggravate may at least see the love I have for this scene.

I have it's traditional values built into me, I can't ever lose that.

I just don't want it to stagnate....and I believe there is a danger of that if people don't simply...listen.

Thats got to be one of the best posts I,ve read on here.Heartfelt ,honest and full of common sense .Your love of the full spectrum of this music is totally apparent.Only wish there were more people who can take in the full picture.i raise my hat to you sir!

ps You hit the nail on the head regarding "Tribute To Betty"

[Guest julesp1905]

I think the thread has change direction slighlty and turned into do Soulfull House/Garage records fit within our Scene.

IMHO Yes, not ALL, but some to hold all the vital ingredients and it is just a case of finding them.

Four Below Zero was released in 1976 produced by Patrick Adams aimed at the disco market, Patrick went on to be very prominent in the disco/early house scene. I'm sure there are members of this forum who sourced FBZ at time of release. That is no different to buying a latest House Import.

Soul is in the eye of the beholder.

We Now have a scene where R&B (not the bass variety) are played where previously they would never been considered. Threads regarding the merits of white pop singers records be played just beause the fit the bill. I'm sure the Nicole Willis record has had much debate on this forum however ITAL now sells for between £10-£20, (brought one in Berwick St One Month ago for £5.99, Last one though)

As said earlier these house tunes are being released on independant labels with small pressing runs so they always have the chance of becoming a future rarity.

Tunes worth a Mention (All At least 12 Years Old)

Michael Watford - Holding On

Sterling Void - It's Alright

Gerdieau - Take a Stand for Love

Ann Nesby - Lovin is Really my Game

Ten City - My Peace of Heaven

Alyus - Follow Me

Jasper St Company - A Feeling.

Not everbody likes every record considered to be part of our scene, please remember it's all about personal taste.

[Mark R]

I think the thread has change direction slighlty and turned into do Soulfull House/Garage records fit within our Scene.

IMHO Yes, not ALL, but some to hold all the vital ingredients and it is just a case of finding them.

Four Below Zero was released in 1976 produced by Patrick Adams aimed at the disco market, Patrick went on to be very prominent in the disco/early house scene. I'm sure there are members of this forum who sourced FBZ at time of release. That is no different to buying a latest House Import.

Soul is in the eye of the beholder.

We Now have a scene where R&B (not the bass variety) are played where previously they would never been considered. Threads regarding the merits of white pop singers records be played just beause the fit the bill. I'm sure the Nicole Willis record has had much debate on this forum however ITAL now sells for between £10-£20, (brought one in Berwick St One Month ago for £5.99, Last one though)

As said earlier these house tunes are being released on independant labels with small pressing runs so they always have the chance of becoming a future rarity.

Tunes worth a Mention (All At least 12 Years Old)

Michael Watford - Holding On

Sterling Void - It's Alright

Gerdieau - Take a Stand for Love

Ann Nesby - Lovin is Really my Game

Ten City - My Peace of Heaven

Alyus - Follow Me

Jasper St Company - A Feeling.

Not everbody likes every record considered to be part of our scene, please remember it's all about personal taste.

Great post

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest garv]

Soulful House tracks that qualify for discussion on SS are, and can only be, the tracks that NS dj's play (By definition - people that spend the majority of their time enjoying Northern/Modern - NOT lads that seek out quality 'House Music')

The ones that seem to be rolled out time and time again on here are the tracks that have the formulaic NS angle that must, it seems if it is to gain dancefloor acceptance anyhow, go with that.

You can only dig so far, with regard to what is deemed 'Soulful House - that is if you are a lad that spends the majority of his time loving music that has always been based around the traditional ideals of acceptable NS all nighter plays.

If you don't take the time out to understand any form of music, you never will - and if you are happy posting how terrible other forms of music are to the world, then good luck to you.

Heavy rock and country music used to sound the same to me, it still does if I'm honest, but I understand that other people get some kind of solace out of it - all the time you rattle negatively about stuff you aren't interested in is time you could have spent waxing lyrical about stuff that you love.

Do you think that lads that are into Modern give two shiny ones if a pure 60's Detroit fanatic tells 'em it's crap? They don't!

You can flip that last sentence any way you want.

All the NS dancefloor gets treated to, as regards 'Soulful House', are tracks that a long standing 60's/70's/80's Northern/Modern All Nighter lad deems worthy ,- generally, some kind of re-working of a standard, or something that uses 'those' chords and buzz-words that they believe they can get away with with nowt but a half-decent dancefloor reaction and not too much flak. Nowt wrong with that but this music has so much more to offer - and that's the stuuf that you won't hear.

See what a Cabbie says when he hears that you have been dj-ing and playing 'House Music' - it generally goes something like "Oh! All that 2 Unlimited stuff/Scouse House/Trance stuff?" Or whatever, I'm sure you get my drift!?

And why do you get that response?

Because - they base their view on nothing else other than what they are told by the media/radio (as that is all they are able to draw their information from - the radio is THEIR NS scene, THEIR dancefloor)

It's all about the information you allow yourself to be open to - all the Cabbie knows/can base his opinion on is whathe is told.

Again you can stick any form of music into the above statement.

Are you seeing how poor you can sound to other music lovers when you uninformedly rip the arse out of a form of music you don't really understand?

I'm not having a pop, just trying to get the point over - all you hear at Nighters (if all you hear is what you hear NS/All Niter jocks play), is just that - one lads view of 'Soulful House'.

There is so much more.

The DJ Genesis argument sums it up well - a bit of a buzz tune initially, that now seems to attract only derisory comments (See Dustin Wilson - 'Sympathy' etc and a plethora of other 'Modern' tracks given airtime then ignored over the years).

Does the fact that the scene majoritively see's it as unplayable make it a bad track? -D

Does it f*ck?

It's what happens on dancefloors, with anything as it happens -it's fashion - you wear the same T Shirt for three months and you are bored with it - nowt wrong with the old shirt, you are just a bit bored of it, so you buy a new 'un.

DJ Genesis was yet another 'House' scapegoat...but at heart it will always be what it was when it was produced - nowt but a nod to Betty, a beatifully made tribute, put together by a lass who gave enough of a shit to spend her time and money showing her faith - HER faith - HER tribute!

If you had put all that into your own Eddie Holman (whoever) tribute, I don't think you could find it in you to cheaply berate her efforts?

Could you? Should you?

Obviously, No!

....but loads have.

It's not her fault that Sam or whoever, decided that the time was right for her production to be given 'All Nighter-Time'.

Neither does it in my mind make her any less worthy of a round of applause for putting her money were her memories were.

That is all the only reason, obviously, that the track was given exposure on the NS scene - one man had the balls to play it and tracks of it's kind, no mean feat alone, but the tracks I see given space on here are the same old, same old.

I bet the majority of people on here, even the 60's folks, could do me a top twenty of accepted 'Soulful House' tracks fairly easily

Given the fact that sequenced 'House' tracks have been played on the Nighter scene since the 80's (Stinger J, Mink, Demetrius etc), I can't believe how blinkered the scene has been over the years.

For example, 'Keep On Pushing Love' is a major label release (RCA), studio sequenced, four to the floor House record - yes, the arrangement has a touch more sophistication, the tempo may be a tad more hip friendly - but that's about it - it is still by definition...a House record.

It may have the very pinnable Soul Medal of Our Al singing on it (Al's Soul isn't he?)

Name me another Al Green record that has been accepted on a NS dancefloor of late?

This particular track is a true example of a great soul vocalist being ignored by a scene (a scene built upon his kind) until a certain arrangement and mix was laid beneath his vocal.

An Al Green release played at a nighter majoritively for the mix alone and not the vocal - surely notl?

A sequenced, Housey mix at that!?

It is a HUGE scene, the 'Soulful House' (pigeon-hole) scene.

There are hundreds of quality all nighter playable 'Soulful House' releases weekly, both in the US and Europe - sadly the NS dancefloor gets to hear but a few.

I don't throw myself into these diatribes as I wish to see 70's/Modern rooms play more 'House', I am at heart a traditionalist and wouldn't want a quality Modern night that I was attending ruined with willy-nilly poorly chosen 'Soulful House' tracks - I've had nights ruined at nighters with exactly that scenario.

What I do think would help all nighters, is a radical re-think of how 'progressive'independant black music is showcased - it isn't difficult to put together a night that can incorporate traidtional all nigher based soul and House. Maleadey makes an effort.

It is no bigger a leap than the Northern room incorporating R&B or Popcorn.

I know I annoy some people with these posts of mine, I can see that.

What I do hope is that the people that I do aggravate may at least see the love I have for this scene.

I have it's traditional values built into me, I can't ever lose that.

I just don't want it to stagnate....and I believe there is a danger of that if people don't simply...listen.

Barry

Beautifully put

One of the best posts ive ever read on this site, you wear your heart on your sleeve & there`s no ego with your views......... its just about the music, black music, in all its wonderful forms

More power to you.

Garv

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Barry

Beautifully put

One of the best posts ive ever read on this site, you wear your heart on your sleeve & there`s no ego with your views......... its just about the music, black music, in all its wonderful forms

More power to you.

Garv

House music is black music? Get outa here. It was invented by computer geeks, predominantly white, predominantly acne ridden, and predominently dresssed in specs.

I know 'cos I was there...

[Cunnie]

House music is black music? Get outa here. It was invented by computer geeks, predominantly white, predominantly acne ridden, and predominently dresssed in specs.

I know 'cos I was there...

So Frankie Knuckles was a white acne ridden bespecticled computer geek

[Guest garv]

So Frankie Knuckles was a white acne ridden bespecticled computer geek

Mart

You forgot those other white geeks who experimented with computers & paved the way for new sounds & styles in white music

Stevie Wonder & Herbie Hancock

[Guest]

So Frankie Knuckles was a white acne ridden bespecticled computer geek

Of course he is , Martin .......

Here is a photograph of him , taken when he first started out mixing the devil's music in Chicago ........

Malc Burton

[Mark R]

House music is black music? Get outa here. It was invented by computer geeks, predominantly white, predominantly acne ridden, and predominently dresssed in specs.

I know 'cos I was there...

Of course you're right.............you've only got to take a look at Gene Hunt & Stax from Abicah Soul Project to see that!!

No different to me than watching a hero of 60's black America telling his/her story..............it's all facinating and all part of a rich musical history that continues to evolve. I wonder what exciting developments there'll be tomorrow

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Sheesh, I hate to argue with so many ill-informed people at once, but those guys were wa-a-a-a-ay behind us. We worked with gigantic mainframes and we thought getting 'As' to chase 'Vs' about the screen was a video game. Most of these machines couldn't even produce sound except for warning beeps, so we had to program errors to get the beeps to play music (One guy even tried to get the various printers to play music because those big ol' golfball printers had such distinctive sounds). It has to be said we were pretty much blown away when we first heard a Space Invaders machine.

I don't give a damn what colour the guys who picked up on the machines that could produce something approaching music were, we invented the things, and the only sounds you could get out of them were the sounds that we put into them. Ipso facto, we invented house music.

And I really wish we hadn't.

[Cunnie]

House music is black music? Get outa here. It was invented by computer geeks, predominantly white, predominantly acne ridden, and predominently dresssed in specs.

I know 'cos I was there...

Sheesh, I hate to argue with so many ill-informed people at once, but those guys were wa-a-a-a-ay behind us. We worked with gigantic mainframes and we thought getting 'As' to chase 'Vs' about the screen was a video game. Most of these machines couldn't even produce sound except for warning beeps, so we had to program errors to get the beeps to play music (One guy even tried to get the various printers to play music because those big ol' golfball printers had such distinctive sounds). It has to be said we were pretty much blown away when we first heard a Space Invaders machine.

I don't give a damn what colour the guys who picked up on the machines that could produce something approaching music were, we invented the things, and the only sounds you could get out of them were the sounds that we put into them. Ipso facto, we invented house music.

And I really wish we hadn't.

Why mention it then???

Have a quick read of the links below from wikapedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Knuckles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse_%28nightclub%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_house_musicians

Strangely I can't see any mention of the name JJMMWGDuPree on the final link so perhaps it needs updating.

[Guest]

Why mention it then???

Have a quick read of the links below from wikapedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Knuckles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse_%28nightclub%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_house_musicians

Strangely I can't see any mention of the name JJMMWGDuPree on the final link so perhaps it needs updating.

I think they omitted it in favour of a more creditable name - Moby .......

Malc Burton

[Guest garv]

Why mention it then???

Have a quick read of the links below from wikapedia.

Strangely I can't see any mention of the name JJMMWGDuPree on the final link so perhaps it needs updating.

Ive saved him the bother Martin, just googled him & looks like he`s right ............ A MOBO ...... wonder what that stands for? He does look strangely familiar though

Edited February 16, 2008 by garv

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Why mention it then???

Have a quick read of the links below from wikapedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Knuckles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse_%28nightclub%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_house_musicians

Strangely I can't see any mention of the name JJMMWGDuPree on the final link so perhaps it needs updating.

I didn't mention it. go and reread my original post then try to remember it while you read my follow up.

So, Frankie was a few years behind Georgio Moroder then? And if he bought his first drum machine in the 80s he was around a decade behind us when we were making strange noises on the mainframes, but the, he had to wait for us to invent the things. Then again he was around two decades behind the guys that put on the first computer music show, although to be fair, the 'computer', wasn't really a computer by our standards, just a random number generator with programmable parameters. Oddly enough, they claimed to be making 'The New Classical Music' because they reckoned that every combination of music other than random sound had now been utilised.

Not quite sure why you put the Warehouse link up. It doesn't say anything that the last like didn't.

I'm buggered if I'm going to check out every one of those names to see if there's one who was somehow making the music before we invented the machines. If you think any of them were then name them.

I said 'We' not 'Me'.

[Mark R]

I didn't mention it. go and reread my original post then try to remember it while you read my follow up.

So, Frankie was a few years behind Georgio Moroder then? And if he bought his first drum machine in the 80s he was around a decade behind us when we were making strange noises on the mainframes, but the, he had to wait for us to invent the things. Then again he was around two decades behind the guys that put on the first computer music show, although to be fair, the 'computer', wasn't really a computer by our standards, just a random number generator with programmable parameters. Oddly enough, they claimed to be making 'The New Classical Music' because they reckoned that every combination of music other than random sound had now been utilised.

Not quite sure why you put the Warehouse link up. It doesn't say anything that the last like didn't.

I'm buggered if I'm going to check out every one of those names to see if there's one who was somehow making the music before we invented the machines. If you think any of them were then name them.

I said 'We' not 'Me'.

My friend.........you talk in the kind of riddles I don't understand!!!!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest]

My friend.........you talk in the kind of riddles I don't understand!!!!

Cheers,

Mark R

It must be the MDMA, Expanding his mind Bruv.............It worked wonders on me back in the day!

The trouble is that you can end up even confusing yourself!

Don't do it kids !!!

Edited February 16, 2008 by mossy

[Barry]

Thanks to the fella's who can see where my views lie and replied in the positive, I'm grateful.

I think I need to re-itterate the fact that there was a period in All Nighter history, Bradford Queens Hall (Modern Room may I add) in 90/91, that myself and a lad I went to school with, Dave Hawkins, were given a small but timely window within which we were allowed to play our view of danceable, mainly black, music to All Nighter devotee's.

I'll not post the playlists again as I'm sure you've seen them - but our ethic at the time was to bring newly released black music (UK/US/European) that we deemed worthy of attention to the NS scene.

A large proportion of the stuff we played was House Music, yes, but we also played an amount of what was termed 'Street Soul' at the time, alongside tracks from our more traditional 70's/80's 7" & 12" Modern collections.

Obviously we received flak from certain sections within the NS scene, again - each to their own.

What did come of our small contribution to this scene, wether you agree with it or not, was we at the very least opened some peoples ears to black musics eternal progression - a lot of standard accepted tracks that you'll hear on floors today were broke during that period.

Just to balance that last statement there was a lot of stuff that would probably make yer hair curl if you listened to them now....but Bradford and the majority of tracks that got aired at that time, like every other venue that played turning point music, was simply - a time and a place.

Certain tracks were sooo realevant at the time but I wouldn't say that they, in retrospect, would be worthy of inclusion at Nighters nowadays - ironically, the old 'bad joke' term fits that time perfectly....'you had to be there!'

I hope this clears up the misconception that 'Soulful House' is a form of music that has crept into the scene of late - it's been there for nigh on 18 years - hardly a 'Johnny Come Lately'!?

Also may I be so bold as to add that neither of us, I don't think anyway , were worthy of the 'DJ Dickhead' mantle, a term that I read in another post relating to people who play 'House' music.

Not everyone who plays what you see to be 'House' music is a dickhead, far from it, trust me!

A deal of 'dickheads' live and breathe the same Soul music as you, gave up and continue to give up the same time in their lives as you do and have done for for music.

The difference is that they also manage to see the bigger picture, without being foolish enough to expound that their opinion is the only true and correct one.

The post regarding 'space invaders' or whatever also has little relevance to me.

Why?

As, the day the instrumentation takes presedence over a (yellow/white/black) man or woman singing in a manner that I see as Soulful is the day that I realise I need to take a bit more notice about my understanding of 'Soul'.

Here's a little anology: you can sit in your car, floor it, and hit the wall at 100mph with Lorraine Chandler, full welly on your cd player - and die ther being eternally 'true' (in your mind anyhow) to the Northern scene....or you can change the cd, open your mind to the reality of what has happened to this music in your own enforced abscence and live to learn.

Soul suicide?

Maybe!?

[Guest]

Thanks to the fella's who can see where my views lie and replied in the positive, I'm grateful.

I think I need to re-itterate the fact that there was a period in All Nighter history, Bradford Queens Hall (Modern Room may I add) in 90/91, that myself and a lad I went to school with, Dave Hawkins, were given a small but timely window within which we were allowed to play our view of danceable, mainly black, music to All Nighter devotee's.

I'll not post the playlists again as I'm sure you've seen them - but our ethic at the time was to bring newly released black music (UK/US/European) that we deemed worthy of attention to the NS scene.

A large proportion of the stuff we played was House Music, yes, but we also played an amount of what was termed 'Street Soul' at the time, alongside tracks from our more traditional 70's/80's 7" & 12" Modern collections.

Obviously we received flak from certain sections within the NS scene, again - each to their own.

What did come of our small contribution to this scene, wether you agree with it or not, was we at the very least opened some peoples ears to black musics eternal progression - a lot of standard accepted tracks that you'll hear on floors today were broke during that period.

Just to balance that last statement there was a lot of stuff that would probably make yer hair curl if you listened to them now....but Bradford and the majority of tracks that got aired at that time, like every other venue that played turning point music, was simply - a time and a place.

Certain tracks were sooo realevant at the time but I wouldn't say that they, in retrospect, would be worthy of inclusion at Nighters nowadays - ironically, the old 'bad joke' term fits that time perfectly....'you had to be there!'

I hope this clears up the misconception that 'Soulful House' is a form of music that has crept into the scene of late - it's been there for nigh on 18 years - hardly a 'Johnny Come Lately'!?

Also may I be so bold as to add that neither of us, I don't think anyway , were worthy of the 'DJ Dickhead' mantle, a term that I read in another post relating to people who play 'House' music.

Not everyone who plays what you see to be 'House' music is a dickhead, far from it, trust me!

A deal of 'dickheads' live and breathe the same Soul music as you, gave up and continue to give up the same time in their lives as you do and have done for for music.

The difference is that they also manage to see the bigger picture, without being foolish enough to expound that their opinion is the only true and correct one.

The post regarding 'space invaders' or whatever also has little relevance to me.

Why?

As, the day the instrumentation takes presedence over a (yellow/white/black) man or woman singing in a manner that I see as Soulful is the day that I realise I need to take a bit more notice about my understanding of 'Soul'.

Here's a little anology: you can sit in your car, floor it, and hit the wall at 100mph with Lorraine Chandler, full welly on your cd player - and die ther being eternally 'true' (in your mind anyhow) to the Northern scene....or you can change the cd, open your mind to the reality of what has happened to this music in your own enforced abscence and live to learn.

Soul suicide?

Maybe!?

To quote Shaun Cottle - " F**K art , let's dance " ........

Malc Burton

[Guest]

Ive saved him the bother Martin, just googled him & looks like he`s right ............ A MOBO ...... wonder what that stands for? He does look strangely familiar though

It is not Tim Westwood is it ? ......

Malc Burton

Edited February 17, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Guest garv]

It is not Tim Westwood is it ? ......

Malc Burton

Edited February 17, 2008 by garv

[Guest]

If this is the chap behind the " Who is Frankie Knuckles " tirade , we are not worthy ........

What next - " Pimp My House " ? - sorry , he has already started .........

Malc Burton

Edited February 17, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Guest]

I didn't mention it. go and reread my original post then try to remember it while you read my follow up.

So, Frankie was a few years behind Georgio Moroder then? And if he bought his first drum machine in the 80s he was around a decade behind us when we were making strange noises on the mainframes, but the, he had to wait for us to invent the things. Then again he was around two decades behind the guys that put on the first computer music show, although to be fair, the 'computer', wasn't really a computer by our standards, just a random number generator with programmable parameters. Oddly enough, they claimed to be making 'The New Classical Music' because they reckoned that every combination of music other than random sound had now been utilised.

Not quite sure why you put the Warehouse link up. It doesn't say anything that the last like didn't.

I'm buggered if I'm going to check out every one of those names to see if there's one who was somehow making the music before we invented the machines. If you think any of them were then name them.

I said 'We' not 'Me'.

It makes a change from making noises on the bed frames ........

Walter Carlos , sorry , Wendy Carlos , come on down ........

Malc Burton

[Guest garv]

Pimp my computer, hip hop Westwood styleeee

[Guest]

Pimp my computer, hip hop Westwood styleeee

Comes complete with the My Man Tim " Homeboy " accessory ........

Malc Burton