In Demand

[Harry Crosby]

Increasingly on here i see comments like, the value of this has increased because of demand, or price will rise because of demand,Just a question, if we are buying copies of limited issued rare soul, how suddenly because a record is becoming dance floor active, should the price rise usually significantly ie BETTY SWANN-RUBY ANDREWS, if the record hounds are turning up more copies due to demand then shouldn`t the price drop? just a question thats all

[Epic]

Increasingly on here i see comments like, the value of this has increased because of demand, or price will rise because of demand,Just a question, if we are buying copies of limited issued rare soul, how suddenly because a record is becoming dance floor active, should the price rise usually significantly ie BETTY SWANN-RUBY ANDREWS, if the record hounds are turning up more copies due to demand then shouldn`t the price drop? just a question thats all

Think you will find records like The Futures & Ace Spectrum are cheaper than they were two years ago.

[KevH]

Increasingly on here i see comments like, the value of this has increased because of demand, or price will rise because of demand,Just a question, if we are buying copies of limited issued rare soul, how suddenly because a record is becoming dance floor active, should the price rise usually significantly ie BETTY SWANN-RUBY ANDREWS, if the record hounds are turning up more copies due to demand then shouldn`t the price drop? just a question thats all

are the record hounds turning up more copies tho'? Or are they the same ones in circulation?.

Records get buried in collections,waiting to be "in demand".We all dance to it,make it popular and up goes the price.

Now if a record is truly hard to get,that's different.

Prices only drop if there's no demand,or if the tune has had its day.imho.

[Harry Crosby]

are the record hounds turning up more copies tho'? Or are they the same ones in circulation?.

Records get buried in collections,waiting to be "in demand".We all dance to it,make it popular and up goes the price.

Now if a record is truly hard to get,that's different.

Prices only drop if there's no demand,or if the tune has had its day.imho.

Yeh good reply thought i might get one like that, it just makes you think how much "in demand" value is in records like FRANK WILSON etc, is it trully worth all those thousands of pounds or is there an " IN DEMAND" value in the price, what i`m getting at here is are records like THE INSPIRATIONS-NO ONE ELSE CAN TAKE YOUR PLACE-BREAKTHROUGH, are not as in demand for dancefloors so is it valued accordingly, how many copies of that have turned up as against the FRANK WILSON track the price difference is massive

[KevH]

Yeh good reply thought i might get one like that, it just makes you think how much "in demand" value is in records like FRANK WILSON etc, is it trully worth all those thousands of pounds or is there an " IN DEMAND" value in the price, what i`m getting at here is are records like THE INSPIRATIONS-NO ONE ELSE CAN TAKE YOUR PLACE-BREAKTHROUGH, are not as in demand for dancefloors so is it valued accordingly, how many copies of that have turned up as against the FRANK WILSON track the price difference is massive

the two tracks you mention are v v rare!As you know the FW is the biggest ticket sound cos its a one-off,and the Motown connection.Once it came out on Tamla Motown,Bob's yer auntie,the biggest NS sound of all time.

The Inspirations-NOECTYP,I think there's only 2/3 copies of the 60's version,nowhere near as well known.goes for about 3grand,maybe more?

Edited January 23, 2008 by KevH

[John A]

Frank Wilson a one off??? has Kenny or Tim sat on their copy and broke it or something? lol

[KevH]

Frank Wilson a one off??? has Kenny or Tim sat on their copy and broke it or something? lol

ok a two off

[Harry Crosby]

the two tracks you mention are v v rare!As you know the FW is the biggest ticket sound cos its a one-off,and the Motown connection.Once it came out on Tamla Motown,Bob's yer auntie,the biggest NS sound of all time.

The Inspirations-NOECTYP,I think there's only 2/3 copies of the 60's version,nowhere near as well known.goes for about 3grand,maybe more?

I was under the impression there was three frank wilson`s now, kenny`s, tims. and wasn`t there another found in a record store a few years ago? But as i`m saying the price difference between that and the inspirations is massive, at 3grand

[KevH]

I was under the impression there was three frank wilson`s now, kenny`s, tims. and wasn`t there another found in a record store a few years ago? But as i`m saying the price difference between that and the inspirations is massive, at 3grand

i really must pay more attention to FW!!.Your'e right,3 copies ,my mistake in post.

KB's being the one-off when it sold for big money?

Some-one's gonna tell me there's more than 3 copies of Inspirations now. .

[Harry Crosby]

i really must pay more attention to FW!!.Your'e right,3 copies ,my mistake in post.

KB's being the one-off when it sold for big money?

Some-one's gonna tell me there's more than 3 copies of Inspirations now. .

Theres also other examples of this with such records as the counts on shrine, think thats a one or two count isn`t, maybe fw is just priced at what the person is willing to pay, just thought if a record is as rare as these weve mentioned, then shouldn`t they all be priced within the same bracket? or is the massive gap due to popularity or "DEMAND surely the records snould be priced in guides according to there rarity

[KevH]

Theres also other examples of this with such records as the counts on shrine, think thats a one or two count isn`t, maybe fw is just priced at what the person is willing to pay, just thought if a record is as rare as these weve mentioned, then shouldn`t they all be priced within the same bracket? or is the massive gap due to popularity or "DEMAND surely the records snould be priced in guides according to there rarity

didn't a Counts get snapped recently?That could well be a one-off....but don't quote me on that!! .

Its really all about quality and rareity isn't it. Some one should come up with an equation to work it all out.

Q + R + D = V.

Edited January 23, 2008 by KevH

[Harry Crosby]

didn't a Counts get snapped recently?That could well be a one-off....but don't quote me on that!! .

Its really all about quality and rareity isn't it. Some one should come up with an equation to work it all out.

Q + R + D = V.

Yeh saw that counts on here, a very good friend of mine who lives near us has one defo, just can`t understand how a really rare record can be priced

[Guest inspirations001]

JUST TO ADD A BIT OF FUEL TO THE FIRE, WHAT MAKES FRANK WILSON WORTH SO MUCH? IT'S NOT THE BEST NORTHERN RECORD EVER, IT'S NOT EVEN THE BEST RECORD ON MOTOWN(OK SOUL). TO QUOTE KEVIN KEEGAN I WOULD LOVE IT IF SOMEONE TURNED UP A BOX FULL. IF IT WAS AS COMMON AS SAY DARRELL BANKS,WOULD EVERY ONE BE GOING ALL GA GA FOR IT,I DON'T THINK SO.

THE INSPIRATIONS MEANWHILE IS TOP DRAWER AND A BETTER SOUL RECORD BY FAR THAN FW!

I WAS OFFERED ONE IN 1980 FOR £100 AND COULDN'T AFFORD IT,TYPICAL,I'D GIVE MY C**K AWAY TO OWN ONE NOW,BUT HEY HO LIFE GOES ON!!

[Harry Crosby]

JUST TO ADD A BIT OF FUEL TO THE FIRE, WHAT MAKES FRANK WILSON WORTH SO MUCH? IT'S NOT THE BEST NORTHERN RECORD EVER, IT'S NOT EVEN THE BEST RECORD ON MOTOWN(OK SOUL). TO QUOTE KEVIN KEEGAN I WOULD LOVE IT IF SOMEONE TURNED UP A BOX FULL. IF IT WAS AS COMMON AS SAY DARRELL BANKS,WOULD EVERY ONE BE GOING ALL GA GA FOR IT,I DON'T THINK SO.

THE INSPIRATIONS MEANWHILE IS TOP DRAWER AND A BETTER SOUL RECORD BY FAR THAN FW!

I WAS OFFERED ONE IN 1980 FOR £100 AND COULDN'T AFFORD IT,TYPICAL,I'D GIVE MY C**K AWAY TO OWN ONE NOW,BUT HEY HO LIFE GOES ON!!

Got my message glass back cheers matey, This topic has been a personal bug bear of mine for years now, remember years ago in york there was a store called BOSTOCK RECORDS in this store you coul buy soul packs, a regular in these ten for a pund packs was betty swann-kiss my love goodbye-atlantic it seemed one out of two packs contained at least one of these, then somebody plays it and gets a danceflor reaction next thing it`s £250+

[Chalky]

Think you will find records like The Futures & Ace Spectrum are cheaper than they were two years ago.

not as cheap as they should be though

[Harry Crosby]

not as cheap as they should be though

Do you have any opinions on this chalky?

[Chalky]

Depends, could be rarity that dictates the price, it should be in most cases but it's usually what hot at the moment with the dancers and DJs. Soon as something starts getting played dealers push up the price and "DJs" will pay that bit more, rather than find their own records and maybe the next biggie

Take Ace Spectrum. It was a record you couldn't give away at one time, it sold in it's millions. All of a sudden for some strange reason it gets a few spins and it's suddenly it has a three figure price tag, f*** knows why. It's back down to £25 nowadays due to demand dropping but even that is 5 times it's value IMHO. It's a record that should never have been expensive regardless of dance floor status.

There's records that are in the £50 bracket that are harder to find than some records that cost several 100 quid and more!!! SWONS!

[Shsdave]

Depends, could be rarity that dictates the price, it should be in most cases but it's usually what hot at the moment with the dancers and DJs. Soon as something starts getting played dealers push up the price and "DJs" will pay that bit more, rather than find their own records and maybe the next biggie

I think a mention on here is enough to get a sudden increase at times

Edited January 23, 2008 by SHSDave

[Epic]

Depends, could be rarity that dictates the price, it should be in most cases but it's usually what hot at the moment with the dancers and DJs. Soon as something starts getting played dealers push up the price and "DJs" will pay that bit more, rather than find their own records and maybe the next biggie

Take Ace Spectrum. It was a record you couldn't give away at one time, it sold in it's millions. All of a sudden for some strange reason it gets a few spins and it's suddenly it has a three figure price tag, f*** knows why. It's back down to £25 nowadays due to demand dropping but even that is 5 times it's value IMHO. It's a record that should never have been expensive regardless of dance floor status.

There's records that are in the £50 bracket that are harder to find than some records that cost several 100 quid and more!!! SWONS!

Back in the seventies you couldn't sell "Jeanette" - Wade Flemons for 3 quid - there was loads of 'em about. Even now I wouldn't give you the price of a pint for it!!!

[Chalky]

Back in the seventies you couldn't sell "Jeanette" - Wade Flemons for 3 quid - there was loads of 'em about. Even now I wouldn't give you the price of a pint for it!!!

Dottie and Millie another that springs to mind

[Harry Crosby]

Don`t know this in the same bracket but THE INSPIRATIONS-YOUR WISH IS MY COMMAND was on soul bowls front page for £6, look at it now

[Chalky]

ebay and other auction sites have a big say and clearly show just how desperate some are to get hold of a record, rather than spend a little time doing their homework and looking round.

Seen many rare ones either slip through unnoticed or sell for less than what it's actually worth simply cause it's not indemand.

[Guest Bearsy]

ebay and other auction sites have a big say and clearly show just how desperate some are to get hold of a record, rather than spend a little time doing their homework and looking round.

Seen many rare ones either slip through unnoticed or sell for less than what it's actually worth simply cause it's not indemand.

spot on Chalky, myself i am now trying to find the tunes before they get indemand and not only that it means you aint playing what everyone else is and that alone can keep your sets fresh and different and over a good period of time before you know it you are getting yourself a nice little collection and they dont have to be expensive either, shop about and dont stop listening to anything you aint never heard before cos its starting to work for me that way

[Wrongcrowd]

Depends, could be rarity that dictates the price, it should be in most cases but it's usually what hot at the moment with the dancers and DJs. Soon as something starts getting played dealers push up the price and "DJs" will pay that bit more, rather than find their own records and maybe the next biggie

Take Ace Spectrum. It was a record you couldn't give away at one time, it sold in it's millions. All of a sudden for some strange reason it gets a few spins and it's suddenly it has a three figure price tag, f*** knows why. It's back down to £25 nowadays due to demand dropping but even that is 5 times it's value IMHO. It's a record that should never have been expensive regardless of dance floor status.

There's records that are in the £50 bracket that are harder to find than some records that cost several 100 quid and more!!! SWONS!

This arguement has been going on, and will go on for ever. In my view it's demand first that influences price, since if nobody wants a record, no matter how rare it is, then it has no value. Demand is obviously created through exposure of a record to an audience, could be that demand is based on quality, or rarity, or both, if it's both then the value rises accordingly, and that means to the price that people are willing to pay for it. We're a mad, competitive bunch, and more often than not it's the need to have a record ahead of anyone else drives the early pricing up.

It may well be that more copies of a rare record turn up over time, but then the demand will also increase over time, but then the demand usually will peak, a record will get tired, fall off playlists, and drop in value, and it's true worth will bottom out, that's when you find that you "rare" Ace Spectrum that you paid 50 quid for is only worth a fiver. On the other hand if the record is actually both good and rare - Parliaments - Cabel, then the vinyl will hold or improve it's value, it's the risk you take

As Chalky says, there's some great tunes out there valued at less than 100 quid, but that's only because they're not widely known, and demand is low. You have to get to 'em early, there's no point in wingeing about the price of Ruby Andrews or any other mass appeal tune if you've missed the boat.

[Harry Crosby]

This arguement has been going on, and will go on for ever. In my view it's demand first that influences price, since if nobody wants a record, no matter how rare it is, then it has no value. Demand is obviously created through exposure of a record to an audience, could be that demand is based on quality, or rarity, or both, if it's both then the value rises accordingly, and that means to the price that people are willing to pay for it. We're a mad, competitive bunch, and more often than not it's the need to have a record ahead of anyone else drives the early pricing up.

It may well be that more copies of a rare record turn up over time, but then the demand will also increase over time, but then the demand usually will peak, a record will get tired, fall off playlists, and drop in value, and it's true worth will bottom out, that's when you find that you "rare" Ace Spectrum that you paid 50 quid for is only worth a fiver. On the other hand if the record is actually both good and rare - Parliaments - Cabel, then the vinyl will hold or improve it's value, it's the risk you take

As Chalky says, there's some great tunes out there valued at less than 100 quid, but that's only because they're not widely known, and demand is low. You have to get to 'em early, there's no point in wingeing about the price of Ruby Andrews or any other mass appeal tune if you've missed the boat.

Agreed on this post, but wasn`t wingering about ruby andrews, and never missed the boat, was just using those two records as an example, so really what were saying its a gamble really you pays your money you takes your chances

[paultp]

Dottie and Millie another that springs to mind

I wish that would come down in price like Ace Spectrum has, I kept missing it at 30 quid a few years ago then one week it was a ton and the next week 2 ton

Where have they all gone? I still want one (for 30 though)

Unfortunately I never saw Jeanette when it was cheap, so had to pay for it.

Quite pleased though when Ace Spec went up in price as I had managed to get a good few on a trip to the states and thought I'd done well to knock em out at 20-40 quid (paid for jeanette ) Couldn't believe it when it hit a ton, that's just lazy.

Anyone on here admit to paying a ton for Ace Spectrum?

All three records are excellent though. Just a bit over played.

[Ficklefingers]

This arguement has been going on, and will go on for ever. In my view it's demand first that influences price, since if nobody wants a record, no matter how rare it is, then it has no value. Demand is obviously created through exposure of a record to an audience, could be that demand is based on quality, or rarity, or both, if it's both then the value rises accordingly, and that means to the price that people are willing to pay for it. We're a mad, competitive bunch, and more often than not it's the need to have a record ahead of anyone else drives the early pricing up.

It may well be that more copies of a rare record turn up over time, but then the demand will also increase over time, but then the demand usually will peak, a record will get tired, fall off playlists, and drop in value, and it's true worth will bottom out, that's when you find that you "rare" Ace Spectrum that you paid 50 quid for is only worth a fiver. On the other hand if the record is actually both good and rare - Parliaments - Cabel, then the vinyl will hold or improve it's value, it's the risk you take

As Chalky says, there's some great tunes out there valued at less than 100 quid, but that's only because they're not widely known, and demand is low. You have to get to 'em early, there's no point in wingeing about the price of Ruby Andrews or any other mass appeal tune if you've missed the boat.

Have to agree almost entirely 100%

Just, on the rarity/price equation. Whilst something perhaps doesn't deserve a price just 'cos it is 'rare' say, for example a well preserved prehistoric turd... the fact alone it is deemed 'rare' would see some people want to own it!

When it comes to our beloved records though you are, in my view, entirely correct although, even there, I have had discs that are absolute crap and, although having seen turntable action somewhere, were by no means in-demand... but still fetched decent three figure sums when sold based on rarity value alone!

[Iancsloft]

Some-one's gonna tell me there's more than 3 copies of Inspirations now. .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is more than 3 copies of no one else can take your place

Tim Browns had two Dave Skeen n Kev Barrett found one several years ago in Kansas

from a address i gave them they sold it to Tim ..Gilly sold one to Tim same year

think Tim moved that on to his Buddie Ginger.. Did,nt Pat Allen have a copy

where are the others Butch as one Mick H ? Come on there are some more out there

Lew Stanley ?

[Steve G]

Demand is fuelled by too many of the 16,486 DJ's on the scene chasing the same records. Easy.

[Iancsloft]

Demand is fuelled by too many of the 16,486 DJ's on the scene chasing the same records. Easy.

======================================================================

YOUR WRONG MATE

5 MONEY MEN DJ,S ARE CHASING THE UNCHASABLE

25 BARNPOTS ARE CHASING THE NEXT LINE OF UNCHASABLES

50 SOUL FANATIC DJ,S ARE GOING WITHOUT FOOD ,CLOTHING ECT ECT CHASING ANYTHING DIFFERENT IN FACT THEIR CLOTHES ARE THAT OLD THEY,VE COME BACK IN STYLE

1000 DJ,S ARE CHASING RARISH ORIGINALS

15,386 DJ,S ARE CHASING THE SAME TUNES LIKE SAM FLETCHER, SAM DEES ECT

[Pete Coulson]

and i'm sure you can help them all ian

[Simon T]

Some-one's gonna tell me there's more than 3 copies of Inspirations now. .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is more than 3 copies of no one else can take your place

Tim Browns had two Dave Skeen n Kev Barrett found one several years ago in Kansas

from a address i gave them they sold it to Tim ..Gilly sold one to Tim same year

think Tim moved that on to his Buddie Ginger.. Did,nt Pat Allen have a copy

where are the others Butch as one Mick H ? Come on there are some more out there

Lew Stanley ?

Ted Massey? I'm sure he has/had one.

[Dave Rimmer]

Some-one's gonna tell me there's more than 3 copies of Inspirations now. .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is more than 3 copies of no one else can take your place

Tim Browns had two Dave Skeen n Kev Barrett found one several years ago in Kansas

from a address i gave them they sold it to Tim ..Gilly sold one to Tim same year

think Tim moved that on to his Buddie Ginger.. Did,nt Pat Allen have a copy

where are the others Butch as one Mick H ? Come on there are some more out there

Lew Stanley ?

Ted Massey? I'm sure he has/had one.

definitely had one, think he's still got it

[Wrongcrowd]

Demand is fuelled by too many of the 16,486 DJ's on the scene chasing the same records. Easy.

======================================================================

YOUR WRONG MATE

5 MONEY MEN DJ,S ARE CHASING THE UNCHASABLE

25 BARNPOTS ARE CHASING THE NEXT LINE OF UNCHASABLES

50 SOUL FANATIC DJ,S ARE GOING WITHOUT FOOD ,CLOTHING ECT ECT CHASING ANYTHING DIFFERENT IN FACT THEIR CLOTHES ARE THAT OLD THEY,VE COME BACK IN STYLE

1000 DJ,S ARE CHASING RARISH ORIGINALS

15,386 DJ,S ARE CHASING THE SAME TUNES LIKE SAM FLETCHER, SAM DEES ECT

[paultp]

If only the market was as big as 15386.

Perhaps the above is the reason that records don't sell anymore unless they are perceived to be worth over 500 quid or so. If the 15386 that are looked down on so much by the others pack it in then the last 200 can all go to the same venue and look at each other's records.

2008 - the year that record prices did the same as house and share prices

[Wrongcrowd]

Have to agree almost entirely 100%

Just, on the rarity/price equation. Whilst something perhaps doesn't deserve a price just 'cos it is 'rare' say, for example a well preserved prehistoric turd... the fact alone it is deemed 'rare' would see some people want to own it!

When it comes to our beloved records though you are, in my view, entirely correct although, even there, I have had discs that are absolute crap and, although having seen turntable action somewhere, were by no means in-demand... but still fetched decent three figure sums when sold based on rarity value alone!

Yep, it's the difference between buying for quality and buying for rarity. Outside of filling in the odd cheap label or artist number, I can honestly say that I've ever bought a record for the sake of rarity alone. I've also never bought a record solely because it was "in demand". You have to want a record for the quality, (and yeah if you're a collector, you need to have it on original vinyl) otherwise you're just collecting rare labels. It's the rare label collectors that'll give you your three figure sums for crap and tired old "rarities" that sit in sales boxes or get pushed out on sales lists priced at their highest ever value, usually on the basis that it was once an "in-demand" tune, though completely disregarding the complete absence of any recent interest

[Iancsloft]

and i'm sure you can help them all ian

=====================================================

Blimey Pete where have you popped up from

has someone left the Cemetry gates open

I always try to help the needy Pete you know me

nip round sometime not locked u in the loft for a long time !!!

[Iancsloft]

Some-one's gonna tell me there's more than 3 copies of Inspirations now. .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is more than 3 copies of no one else can take your place

Tim Browns had two Dave Skeen n Kev Barrett found one several years ago in Kansas

from a address i gave them they sold it to Tim ..Gilly sold one to Tim same year

think Tim moved that on to his Buddie Ginger.. Did,nt Pat Allen have a copy

where are the others Butch as one Mick H ? Come on there are some more out there

Lew Stanley ?

Ted Massey? I'm sure he has/had one.

=========================================================

Sure i heard Soul Sam play it out last year or was it a WKD Moment

[Pete Coulson]

ian be round tomorrow mate what time ?

[KevH]

Some-one's gonna tell me there's more than 3 copies of Inspirations now. .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is more than 3 copies of no one else can take your place

Tim Browns had two Dave Skeen n Kev Barrett found one several years ago in Kansas

from a address i gave them they sold it to Tim ..Gilly sold one to Tim same year

think Tim moved that on to his Buddie Ginger.. Did,nt Pat Allen have a copy

where are the others Butch as one Mick H ? Come on there are some more out there

Lew Stanley ?

Ted Massey? I'm sure he has/had one.

up to possibly 10 copies now.JM must have one. .What about price?.Am i out at 3k?

[Richard Bayley]

Sure i heard Soul Sam play it out last year or was it a WKD Moment