A Collector Pays £5000

[mischief]

Just read this thread.. let me get this straight...

Soul Sam paid 5K for a record out of hes own money...

(good on him you hear about old people who can't aford to pay thier heating bills so he has done all right for hes self )

Stevie Z had some thing to do with the sale along with J Manship.

Now how I read this thread and its only how I read it Stevie Z wants some credit for the track.

By bringing it up..

Is that right?

or is that how I read it as there isn't much there to read.

[KevH]

Is this to do with the 'in the mens toilets' conversation had by a n other at cleethorpes where ginger alledgedlly tells someone that there is another issue of the parliaments knocking about?????

no,but now you mention it,there's at least one carver being played out.Any more?.Only a matter of time before its booted? .

[Corbett80]

Glad Sam's bought it. That way we can all hear it more.

Well done Sam imho.

[Guest Trevski]

If I remember corectly, the first copy was found by Barry James from York. A dealer played it to him with the immortal line "You wont want this, it's the worst record I have ever heard...."

Gorgeous label!

Edited January 24, 2008 by Trevski

[Benji]

if it's the one i'm thinking of, it was "discovered" for the northern scene by an US collector who promoted it via the internet for being the "worst soul record ever"

have to say i agree with that...

[Guest]

Just read this thread.. let me get this straight...

Soul Sam paid 5K for a record out of hes own money...

(good on him you hear about old people who can't aford to pay thier heating bills so he has done all right for hes self )

Stevie Z had some thing to do with the sale along with J Manship.

Now how I read this thread and its only how I read it Stevie Z wants some credit for the track.

By bringing it up..

Is that right?

or is that how I read it as there isn't much there to read.

Thanks mischief i was beginning to wonder what this thread was all about .

As for the amount someone pays for a record lets put it into a little bit of perspective.

£5000 for a little bit of plastic which when a needle is applied great music erupts from great big amplifiers and hundreds of people get off there backsides and dance and enjoy themselves.

Or

£500,000 + for a small bit of china wear which only a select few people get to see in some recluses mansion.

Each to there own, if someone is willing to pay 5k for something then share it with us all then I say you blinking good person.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Well I sold it to Butch in late 80's/early 90's. Found it in the old Clock Shop near Kannapolis in N.C. tucked away with some pretty oddball label stuff under a counter. In the same boxes I got Little ? on a blue label which Butch bought as well, and a Reggie Sadler on Panther which Phil Wainwright took.

Swapped those and more for Beach 45s.

I thought it had a reggae flavour to it too.

ROD

[Modernsoulsucks]

Forgot to add, that for a supposed top dj to splash out that kinda money on a 45 that's been around and played by Butch and Rob Thomas for two, it smacks of laziness and lack of imagination. Surely 5K would have got him something new to all of us.

There are guys on here who do the clubs regularly. Let me ask them. If you had 5K would you go out and buy somebody else's top sound or try to find something that would be associated with you. JT,Paul-S,John Weston,SteveG,Gavin Page etc

ROD

[mischief]

Surely its not for us to question what Sam spends his money on..

it's up to him

[Guest Trevski]

If I remember corectly, the first copy was found by Barry James from York. A dealer played it to him with the immortal line "You wont want this, it's the worst record I have ever heard...."

Gorgeous label!

Barry's not on here, but he told me this ages ago. He said he came across it while he was living in the states, which he did for many years in Detroit and Toronto. Mind you, he does tell some tall tales!

[Modernsoulsucks]

Trevski, I kinda know Barry through Dave Withers. Barry may have found it whilst in the USA as I have no idea how long he lived over there for.

I do know Dave used to stop at his place in Detroit in late 90's and Dave would obviously have been aware of the record then. Coulda been lying in Barry's collection but if Butch had first copy, then it came off me.

ROD

[Iancsloft]

Second copy, after Butch's, belonged to Andy Rix, he sold it to Mick H about 3 years ago.

=====================================================================

The copy Andy Rix got came from Barry James when he lived stateside

i was getting the 45 off Barry the deal was more or less done cash / records

it was just a case of how much dosh Barry wanted it ws,nt much

all of a sudden Andy ended up with it mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Modernsoulsucks]

Mischief, of course it's up to Sam if he has 5K to spend on a 45. However Im approaching this from the point of view of a DJ buying a tune to feature in his spot. Should a top DJ buy what is really now a very rare "oldie" or could that money be put to better use.

There's Sam playing Butch's Parliaments or Arthur Willis and IMO kinda slipping down the DJ hierarchy. I ain't heard him play for ages anyway so maybe he has his own 60's discoveries and the former two are just fillers?

ROD

[Guest Trevski]

Mischief, of course it's up to Sam if he has 5K to spend on a 45. However Im approaching this from the point of view of a DJ buying a tune to feature in his spot. Should a top DJ buy what is really now a very rare "oldie" or could that money be put to better use.

There's Sam playing Butch's Parliaments or Arthur Willis and IMO kinda slipping down the DJ hierarchy. I ain't heard him play for ages anyway so maybe he has his own 60's discoveries and the former two are just fillers?

ROD

Oh to have such 'fillers' in my box! Not heard any new 60's from Sam, has some new 70's etc. Think he just got 'em so he can mix some top 60's into his sets.

[Modernsoulsucks]

I don't mean "fillers" as in so-so or not worth having but for a DJ of Sam's standing, reputation, popularity etc is it the best use of 5K to be maybe then seen as following Butch. I know you hear on this site that all DJs are trailing in Butch's wake but Im sure they're are those on here who would prefer to shell out that money on something Butch didn't have.

ROD

[pikeys dog]

Forgot to add, that for a supposed top dj to splash out that kinda money on a 45 that's been around and played by Butch and Rob Thomas for two, it smacks of laziness and lack of imagination. Surely 5K would have got him something new to all of us.

Hammer - Nail - Head - Thump.

[stomper45]

I'm a bit cafuddled too (whats new there) is it Arthur Willis - Hurtin... your on about? It was on his playlists last year, has he got 2 copies now

Yours confused

Dublin

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Sam told me recently that he had started to buy* more 60s oriented stuff as he was being asked to do more nighters and felt that his spot needed to be 'beefed up' with more 60s to accommodate the nighter crowd.

*When I say 'buy' Sam doesn't often part with too much cash (try suggesting playing golf against him for money ) he does tend to trade lots of heavyweight items from his collection (which the rest of us would quite probably never let go) in order to get what he wants. He's let stuff go like The Camaros, King Moses, Andy Fisher, Jimmy Burns etc.

Follower or leader - could argue forever on this; I think this goes in cycles, difficult to always be at the forefront, but do acknowledge Butch's pretty unparalleled position currently and the length of time he's been there. What you can't deny is Sam's continuing enthusiasm and striving to play something different (his playbox gets a pretty regular overhaul) and he does put his money (or trades!) where his ears are.

Brian

[Simon M]

Mischief, of course it's up to Sam if he has 5K to spend on a 45. However Im approaching this from the point of view of a DJ buying a tune to feature in his spot. Should a top DJ buy what is really now a very rare "oldie" or could that money be put to better use.

There's Sam playing Butch's Parliaments or Arthur Willis and IMO kinda slipping down the DJ hierarchy. I ain't heard him play for ages anyway so maybe he has his own 60's discoveries and the former two are just fillers?

ROD

What you found then , Rod , is it for sale ?

Edited January 24, 2008 by Simon M

[Dave]

Forgot to add, that for a supposed top dj to splash out that kinda money on a 45 that's been around and played by Butch and Rob Thomas for two, it smacks of laziness and lack of imagination. Surely 5K would have got him something new to all of us.

There are guys on here who do the clubs regularly. Let me ask them. If you had 5K would you go out and buy somebody else's top sound or try to find something that would be associated with you. JT,Paul-S,John Weston,SteveG,Gavin Page etc

ROD

Could it be that it's nothing to do with cock-waving and Sam simply likes the record so much he wants to own it?

Sam told me recently that he had started to buy* more 60s oriented stuff as he was being asked to do more nighters and felt that his spot needed to be 'beefed up' with more 60s to accommodate the nighter crowd.

*When I say 'buy' Sam doesn't often part with too much cash (try suggesting playing golf against him for money ) he does tend to trade lots of heavyweight items from his collection (which the rest of us would quite probably never let go) in order to get what he wants. He's let stuff go like The Camaros, King Moses, Andy Fisher, Jimmy Burns etc.

Follower or leader - could argue forever on this; I think this goes in cycles, difficult to always be at the forefront, but do acknowledge Butch's pretty unparalleled position currently and the length of time he's been there. What you can't deny is Sam's continuing enthusiasm and striving to play something different (his playbox gets a pretty regular overhaul) and he does put his money (or trades!) where his ears are.

Brian

Good post! Although Sam's style is not always to my taste, he certainly does vary his plays, whereas Butch will keep records in his set for ages e.g Jean Carter, Johnny Howard.

[good angel]

Didnt a well known Midland Dj pay £10,000 for Cheatin'Kind 2 or 3 years ago.

Kev

Edited January 24, 2008 by good angel

[Modernsoulsucks]

Could it be that it's nothing to do with cock-waving and Sam simply likes the record so much he wants to own it?

Maybe Dave, but I think it's more to do with getting a 45 to dj with as has already been referred to on this thread and as Brian points out he is not that sentimentally attached to his 45s if he feels a sale or trade will improve his playbox. Every chance of Arthur moving on at a later date.

ROD

[Steve G]

Forgot to add, that for a supposed top dj to splash out that kinda money on a 45 that's been around and played by Butch and Rob Thomas for two, it smacks of laziness and lack of imagination. Surely 5K would have got him something new to all of us.

There are guys on here who do the clubs regularly. Let me ask them. If you had 5K would you go out and buy somebody else's top sound or try to find something that would be associated with you. JT,Paul-S,John Weston,SteveG,Gavin Page etc

ROD

Really depends if you are a collector or DJ Rod. I guess I am a bit of both these days. The thread is about collector pays 5k, when we're actually talking about Sam. To me Sam is a DJ with an extended hotbox, I don't view Sam as a collector. I've got so many unknown 70s at this point, and not many places to play them..... maybe I should buy more "known" sounds

[Robin S]

I've got so many unknown 70s at this point, and not many places to play them.....

Time to try something a la Snaith/Brum Locarno etc?!

P.S. Your unbeaten run to come to an end this week!!

[Iancsloft]

Well I sold it to Butch in late 80's/early 90's. Found it in the old Clock Shop near Kannapolis in N.C.

ROD

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I remember you finding that Rod when you came back you played it too me and asked me what

i thought of it , i wanted to buy it off you but you had given Mark (Butch ) first optition and the

bugger bought it gggggrrrrrr £150 i think it was.......

I also remember you finding Poets Wrapped around your finger and you uncovering Searlings Maurice Mc C/UP

MR SOUL.. WHAT HAPPENED.....GENUINE , plus countless other rare 45,s known and some brill unknown stuff

Yes mate it was a sad day indeed when you closed up shop in Afflecks Palace Manchester..

Respect !!!

Ian Cunliffe

[Modernsoulsucks]

More like £50 Ian!! Back then it seemed there was nobody into it really and prices were low.

I didn't find Poets actually. Around late 80's Anderson was opening his Manchester "Expansions" shop and the stuff that was selling well then was the rare groove/2-step/ crossover stuff. Me and Dave specialised in that as it was somewhat easier to find than Northern and John took about £400 worth of LPs off us. Instead of money I took Poets and Trannells off John. I'd never heard either then so not sure if they were "unknown" at that time. Anyway John found it,I just ended up with it.

And yes I did uncover Maurice McCallister. Found it in a shop just outside Baltimore and like Willis 45 it was with quite a few oddball artists and local labels.

There's no magic formulae or specialist knowledge involved at all. If I didn't know it I played it and with Mr. Soul I was in the right place at the right time. Same with "unknowns". If you look at enough 45s even a moron like me can find something with the right ingredients.

ROD

[Steve G]

Time to try something a la Snaith/Brum Locarno etc?!

P.S. Your unbeaten run to come to an end this week!!

Hi Robin, we'll slip up one day, but Warnock is a GOD! And 1000 times better than Peter Taylor.

[Iancsloft]

There's no magic formulae or specialist knowledge involved at all. If I didn't know it I played it and with Mr. Soul I was in the right place at the right time. Same with "unknowns". If you look at enough 45s even a moron like me can find something with the right ingredients.

ROD

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moron !! dont think so Rod you where the man with the Golden Touch

Tell u what tho mate you n Dave Withers sold some really rare 45s cheap

When u where Stateside n comin to the end of your trip that phone on your stall in Afflecks

was red hot tryin to find out what time who,d be back, it was like a big game for people like Soul Sam

Tim Brown ect ect ect to get there before anyone else to pick up the best stuff he he

I lost count of the number of times rushing to your stall and bumpin into some well known collecter

in Manchester on his way there has well

[Agent45]

if it's the one i'm thinking of, it was "discovered" for the northern scene by an US collector who promoted it via the internet for being the "worst soul record ever"

have to say i agree with that...

Ah, the legend continues. I have mixed feelings about it now. On the one hand, I still think it's a crap record. Every instrument is out of tune and the vocal is weak. On the other hand, I hadn't quite gotten serious about collecting 45 from Georgia at the time I traded it to Barry (he was indeed living in Detroit at the time and I had met him at a Mod do in Chicago a few months prior, so this would have been 1998 or 1999). I have, of course, never seen another one and may never turn up another one again so from that perspective I shouldn't have let it go. But had I NOT let it go, it may well still be the 50 cent 45 I purchased rather than the 5000 pound oddity it's become.

There was a thread on the old soul talk listserv about the worst soul 45, and I did indeed submit Arthur Willis as such, which caused quite a flurry of activity in my email box. If I remember correctly, Barry cut an acetate from the 45 I traded him and sent that acetate to Andy Rix. When exactly Andy bought the 45 from Barry I don't know and doesn't really matter anyway I suppose.

Bottom line. You win some and you lose some. I let a shit rare record go for not a lot of money, but I can appreciate the story that surrounds it now at least.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Agent45

[boba]

Ah, the legend continues. I have mixed feelings about it now. On the one hand, I still think it's a crap record. Every instrument is out of tune and the vocal is weak. On the other hand, I hadn't quite gotten serious about collecting 45 from Georgia at the time I traded it to Barry (he was indeed living in Detroit at the time and I had met him at a Mod do in Chicago a few months prior, so this would have been 1998 or 1999). I have, of course, never seen another one and may never turn up another one again so from that perspective I shouldn't have let it go. But had I NOT let it go, it may well still be the 50 cent 45 I purchased rather than the 5000 pound oddity it's become.

There was a thread on the old soul talk listserv about the worst soul 45, and I did indeed submit Arthur Willis as such, which caused quite a flurry of activity in my email box. If I remember correctly, Barry cut an acetate from the 45 I traded him and sent that acetate to Andy Rix. When exactly Andy bought the 45 from Barry I don't know and doesn't really matter anyway I suppose.

Bottom line. You win some and you lose some. I let a shit rare record go for not a lot of money, but I can appreciate the story that surrounds it now at least.

"shit rare" means a few hundred $$$ if someone isn't playing it or talking about it I guess. Look at that cix bits 45 that Manship has up now. One was on ebay, a doowop collector bought it for a few dollars, then resold it on ebay for $150. This was just a few months ago. Now it's up to OVER 2500 POUNDS on Manship's auction.

[Guest]

"shit rare" means a few hundred $$ if someone isn't playing it or talking about it I guess. Look at that cix bits 45 that Manship has up now. One was on ebay, a doowop collector bought it for a few dollars, then resold it on ebay for $150. This was just a few months ago. Now it's up to OVER 2500 POUNDS on Manship's auction.

Bob,

Ref: 6Bits Band

an email today from the lead bidder claimed a "mistake bid", which is being withdraw by our website moderaters on Monday.

The bidder entered the wrong amount in the 1000s instead of hundreds. But Unfortunately his mistake revealed the second bidders proxy bid. We have spoken to both bidders, who will rebid if they want to. To ensure the auctions 100% intregrity BOTH bids are to be withdraw, tumbling the price down to the third bidders bid.

PS any prospective bidders on our auctions please read the price you've entered before pressing the YES button.

On the threads point of Arthur Willis,Soul Sam gave me some trades for Arthur Willis where the 5k came from I don't know. I was happy with the trades, but I can assure everyone the Grandfather of Northern Soul would have expired on the spot, at even thought of parting with 5K cash.

Edited January 27, 2008 by john manship

[boba]

Bob,

Ref: 6Bits Band

an email today from the lead bidder claimed a "mistake bid", which is being withdraw by our website moderaters on Monday.

The bidder entered the wrong amount in the 1000s instead of hundreds. But Unfortunately his mistake revealed the second bidders proxy bid. We have spoken to both bidders, who will rebid if they want to. To ensure the auctions 100% intregrity BOTH bids are to be withdraw, tumbling the price down to the third bidders bid.

PS any prospective bidders on our auctions please read the price you've entered before pressing the YES button.

On the threads point of Arthur Willis,Soul Sam gave me some trades for Arthur Willis where the 5k came from I don't know. I was happy with the trades, but I can assure everyone the Grandfather of Northern Soul would have expired on the spot, at even thought of parting with 5K cash.

sorry, I didn't look recently to see it was withdrawn, I wasn't trying to reveal people's hidden bids.

[Guest]

sorry, I didn't look recently to see it was withdrawn, I wasn't trying to reveal people's hidden bids.

Bob,

The second bidders "proxy" or maximum was revealed by the "mistake" bid, you did nothing wrong.

john

[boba]

Bob,

The second bidders "proxy" or maximum was revealed by the "mistake" bid, you did nothing wrong.

john

Also, though, I don't want to be down-talking the value of a record too now that the bids have been cancelled. I'm sure the record is very rare (and the one copy that was on ebay was the only copy I've seen at least), my point is that the value is made up by it being exposed to the public -- e.g. it's similar to Brian's sale where it might go cheap on ebay but expensive once it is exposed. Thanks.

[Simon M]

Also, though, I don't want to be down-talking the value of a record too now that the bids have been cancelled. I'm sure the record is very rare (and the one copy that was on ebay was the only copy I've seen at least), my point is that the value is made up by it being exposed to the public -- e.g. it's similar to Brian's sale where it might go cheap on ebay but expensive once it is exposed. Thanks.

Just like the Parliaments (and many others actually ) around $160 first , then thousands once played

[spot]

Is this to do with the 'in the mens toilets' conversation had by a n other at cleethorpes where ginger alledgedlly tells someone that there is another issue of the parliaments knocking about?????

Dawn,

Don't know about the "mens toilet conversation" but yes there is another turned up & that's straight from the man who can or horses mouth, if you prefer.

This is my rainy day,

Spot.

[KevH]

Dawn,

Don't know about the "mens toilet conversation" but yes there is another turned up & that's straight from the man who can or horses mouth, if you prefer.

This is my rainy day,

Spot.

see post 52 Spot.,,KEV.

[Keithw]

The Arthur Willis is worth every penny of the £5K it supposedely went for - chuffin' brilliant track! Only know of about 3 copies of it.

well said,would add it to my playlist any day

asked sam if he would swap it for my car...think he thought i was joking

only thing me and ricardo would have had to walk back from middleton

offers still on sam

[Ritchieandrew]

well said,would add it to my playlist any day

asked sam if he would swap it for my car...think he thought i was joking

only thing me and ricardo would have had to walk back from middleton

offers still on sam

Talked to Sam about this on Saturday/Sunday @ Middleton. The deal was a mixture of trades & cash. After hearing it again, all I can say is that it was worth EVERY PENNY. Keith was not joking about his offer of the car either ! Well done Sam for keeping Rare Soul alive, and moving forward !

Regards Ricardo.

[Souljazera]

I've got so many unknown 70s at this point, and not many places to play them..... maybe I should buy more "known" sounds

steve get them dropped at lifeline this weekend...all of em!!!

[Simon M]

steve get them dropped at lifeline this weekend...all of em!!!

He dont play em even if you request them

[Souljazera]

He dont play em even if you request them

D.J.s i formally request them right now.... all of em

[Steve G]

D.J.s i formally request them right now.... all of em

I am only on for an hour each night .....and Simon knows I do play em when I can.

[Simon M]

I am only on for an hour each night .....and Simon knows I do play em when I can.

[Steve G]

Are you coming to lifeline Mr m?

[Simon M]

Are you coming to lifeline Mr m?

Nop not this time , April probably

[Steve G]

Nop not this time , April probably

Lightweight

[Simon M]

Lightweight

Im deejaying for Charity

[Souljazera]

I am only on for an hour each night .....and Simon knows I do play em when I can.

look forward to it steve....mix it up

[Steve G]

look forward to it steve....mix it up

Will do