I Wasn't Defending Bootlegs

[Guest]

Someone approaches me and says why are you not playing the original

I just say, "Because i dont want to risk fookin them up, but if your not happy with that, heres my original take a look"

Is this ok,

Thats common sense in my book (as long as they stay yours)

I collect singles & Lp's & play out both so if i play a track off an original lp & the single of this track is worth a few bob am i being disrespectful to some one who has paid alot of money for the single?

Are we saying that official re issues are wrong as well as boots as this makes no sense to me.

Lets have the soul police list some rules!

Daryl

If only DJ's with ORIGINALS play at venues, it keeps up the music STANDARDS of Northern Soul because they will have some experience. If DJ's are accepted who don't play originals, there could be a lot of people playing music who have only been around for about one year with hardly any experience. Like one so called DJ, who said he had discovered a great new dancer then played BABY LOVE - THE SUPREMES, that happened and he was not joking!!!

[NEV]

Hello,

As the bizarre "SOUL NIGHT DISGRACE" thread was closed before I had chance to reply to Jocko and Brian, I'd like to make it clear that I wasn't defending bootlegs ...I didn't actually consider that debate to be about bootlegs.

As I had said, it was all about DJ etiquette and the financial vale of records and it was "the excessive competitiveness and oneupmanship" that I referred to.

I actually felt sorry for the female DJ because she was getting an awful lot of grief for playing a few cheap records (bootlegs, reissues or whatever they were) at a local event. Is that really a threat to those who are obsessed with expensive records?

As for bootlegs, by the way, I can't really complain about people buying bootlegs or playing bootlegs. People usually buy what's easily available and what they can afford. It's the manufacturers and distributors of bootlegs who I object to.

Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up.

Thanks,

Paul Mooney

It's really quite simple imho

Since the whole scene began ,it has always largely about people collecting "rare ,obscure" soul records in there original form.

The dj's/collectors of this scene are not to be compared with radio dj's who ,get records for free, to promote them and get paid a living to do so.

99% of dj's at soul venues are by and large collectors of soulmusic,so why this differentiating between a "proper dj" and a "collector dj"? Agreed some are great with a mic ,others not so.

Lets be fair radio dj's learn thier trade at broadcasting college,how many soul dj's are qualified?

As far as ive been aware,it has always been considered etiquette to play original vinyl at soul venues. Only exception has been unreleased acetates and the odd cd track of modern soul,never released on vinyl.

The reason is because this is how the scene was founded,and it was these guy's who went out and discovered the sounds that we hear week in week out.

What is the point of collecting and playing "boot" or copies of original records?If people don't understand and respect the "original vinyl rule" then why bother wasting money on imitations?It's not like you can admire them or feel good about finally getting hold of that long time want.Why not just play cd's at a venue?sounds the same,its cheaper and doesnt damage the medium!You cant be any less thought of.

I'll tell you why ,because for some warped reason,they actually think they are adhering to the vinyl rule

It is not about being elitist or snobbish ,its about respecting those people who went out and discovered the records in the first place.

Ok we've had the argument,people who go to venues don't care if it's on original or copy,they can't tell anyway.That's true ,but come on promotors, theres enough original vinyl dj's out there to warrant not putting on someone who plays copies!It's not about dj fees ,most people i know don't charge ,they take whatever a promotor gives em.

This way everyone is happy ,people who go to dance and have a laugh,are oblivious and carry on enjoying themselves and collector's walk away content in the knowledge they've paid to listen to real records!

From someone who went to soul nights in the late 70's as a 15yr old, with no money to buy records,who just happen's to RESPECT the scene and the people who pioneered it!

nuff said

[Guest gordon russell]

hey records cost what they cost some are expensive a lot of great tunes are cheap,but heres the rub if you can't afford em DON'T BE A DJ it's not your right. I'd love to live in KENSINGTON,but the houses cost 1MIL+ so guess what I DON'T LIVE THERE simple as that...to many wanna_be's.

[Guest eddyg]

FFS didnt we get rid off this shit last night come on children let it go its boring now

Edited January 15, 2008 by eddyg

[Guest]

FFS didnt we get rid off this shit last night come on children let it go its boring now

it can't be if you are bothering to read it!

[Guest eddyg]

it can't be if you are bothering to read it!

coz im a nosey bastard pmsl

[Guest Tim aka Bob]

I'll take my hat off to her, she got up n had a go n made alot of people happy thinking wat u said the other day u hate the scene n love the music.

Billy

I am able to confirm that WE have been observing the threads intently.

As an old soulie myself, (Mecca/Casino/Yate etc) I can empathise with many of the comments made within the two threads. Whilst some of the comments have been bordering on the offensive, I am pleased to observe that the overwhelming majority of soul-sourcers have offered valid opinions without resulting to sexist/ageist comments. Thank you all for that!!! I am confident if the full facts had been correctly established at the commencement of the original thread, many people would not have found it necessary to commment at all.

The facts of the matter are that the DJ is an excellent practioner in the field, is able to relate to the dancers and listeners alike, arrived at the venue 2 hours prior to the spot to ensure no duplication, danced and fully participated for the whole evening and received a standing ovation after the spot. The evening was hugely enjoyable evening although some may refer to it as 'low key' with mid-nite, finish. People were still offering congratulations as WE left.

Many thanks, on behalf of the DJ, for the many, many texts and phone calls received from Northern Soulies, (they know who they are). I am able to confirm also, that the DJ will go on from.... strength to strength, have no fear about that.

To conclude, I feel we should support, nurture and offer advice to up and coming talent....not lambast it!!

Didn't someone once say 'A Change Is Gonna Come'.....be part of it!!!!!

[Jellybean]

coz im a nosey bastard pmsl

He is ya know

[Guest eddyg]

He is ya know

oy pmsl

[Guest]

It's really quite simple imho

Since the whole scene began ,it has always largely about people collecting "rare ,obscure" soul records in there original form.

The dj's/collectors of this scene are not to be compared with radio dj's who ,get records for free, to promote them and get paid a living to do so.

99% of dj's at soul venues are by and large collectors of soulmusic,so why this differentiating between a "proper dj" and a "collector dj"? Agreed some are great with a mic ,others not so.

Lets be fair radio dj's learn thier trade at broadcasting college,how many soul dj's are qualified?

As far as ive been aware,it has always been considered etiquette to play original vinyl at soul venues. Only exception has been unreleased acetates and the odd cd track of modern soul,never released on vinyl.

The reason is because this is how the scene was founded,and it was these guy's who went out and discovered the sounds that we hear week in week out.

What is the point of collecting and playing "boot" or copies of original records?If people don't understand and respect the "original vinyl rule" then why bother wasting money on imitations?It's not like you can admire them or feel good about finally getting hold of that long time want.Why not just play cd's at a venue?sounds the same,its cheaper and doesnt damage the medium!You cant be any less thought of.

I'll tell you why ,because for some warped reason,they actually think they are adhering to the vinyl rule

It is not about being elitist or snobbish ,its about respecting those people who went out and discovered the records in the first place.

Ok we've had the argument,people who go to venues don't care if it's on original or copy,they can't tell anyway.That's true ,but come on promotors, theres enough original vinyl dj's out there to warrant not putting on someone who plays copies!It's not about dj fees ,most people i know don't charge ,they take whatever a promotor gives em.

This way everyone is happy ,people who go to dance and have a laugh,are oblivious and carry on enjoying themselves and collector's walk away content in the knowledge they've paid to listen to real records!

From someone who went to soul nights in the late 70's as a 15yr old, with no money to buy records,who just happen's to RESPECT the scene and the people who pioneered it!

nuff said

well said nev

[Guest]

sounds like you need...........VINYL-ELL PATCHES.

Coming soon at a venue near you.(each patch has labels printed on them,for that authentic feel).

if you wish to be more discreet ,O.V.O.Anonymous will be issuing a phone number soon.(All calls at local rate,you may be kept in a queue,listening to cd's only)

HANG ON IN THERE BABY!!!!! (johnny Bristol-MGM 14715/2006443)

You'll have to make sure it's the same label on every patch though...Knowing this lot (and me ) somebodies sure to end up collecting 'em........

[Guest eddyg]

same shite different thread .............. boring

[Jellybean]

same shite different thread .............. boring

AGREE

Edited January 15, 2008 by JELLYBEAN

[Guest rachel]

If you're bored you don't have to read it or post on it - other people may still have valid points to make.

[Guest eddyg]

If you're bored you don't have to read it or post on it - other people may still have valid points to make.

there are no more valid points why do you think last thread closed

[Guest rachel]

there are no more valid points why do you think last thread closed

It was closed because it had degenerated into insults and off-topic chat. Other people have been putting across different (and valid) points on this one.

[Guest]

same shite different thread .............. boring

Start a less borin`thread instead then,shouldnt be hard should it

[Guest Tim aka Bob]

If you're bored you don't have to read it or post on it - other people may still have valid points to make.

Many thanks for that. Whilst I can accept that a great deal of the thread has been tedious and boring, I also feel there are still a great deal of valid points to be made.

I for one would welcome soul-sourcers view points on burning of CDs or obtaining digital copies of tracks sourced from original vinyl.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Im somewhat surprised by Paul's relaxed attitude to people who buy boots. Don't they put money in the bootleggers' pockets and keep them in business to produce the next batch?

However, I can well understand why people buy the boot in preference to the cost of the original and personally have no problem with it.

I have no idea who is doing boots nowadays but if you're reading this next time you make a bit of dosh out of it, a percentage to Save the Children or similar may make you feel a little better next time Paul or someone draws attention to your dodgy dealings.

As for the young lady reportedly playing an entire set of boots, although an absence of a playlist makes it just conjecture, I would have found it a little dull I guess as I would have heard them all before but then most djs playing originals tend to feature rarer 45s first spun [and hammered] at Wigan or Stafford so not much difference really.

All in all not much of a shock-horror story as it's impact is minimal on the whole.

Finally I hope Chalky keeps his promise and gives Bridget a spot. A bit more input from other areas would be refreshing and go some way to close this divide between the dance floor and the collector.

ROD

[Guest eddyg]

It was closed because it had degenerated into insults and off-topic chat. Other people have been putting across different (and valid) points on this one.

think you better read it again same shite different thread think you will find mr mooney just carried on the thread but under a new thread name

Edited January 15, 2008 by eddyg

[Guest rachel]

think you better read it again same shite different thread think you will find mr mooney just carried on the thread but under a new thread name

Would ask if you have no other contribution than to comment on how boring the thread is that you don't post again in it. If other members want to have their say on the issue of bootlegs etc then they are perfectly entitled to without having to plough through someone's repetitive posts about being bored with it all.

[Guest eddyg]

Would ask if you have no other contribution than to comment on how boring the thread is that you don't post again in it. If other members want to have their say on the issue of bootlegs etc then they are perfectly entitled to without having to plough through someone's repetitive posts about being bored with it all.

whats the matter hit a nerve n i find you very repetitive if you want to insult me feel free but my point is valid this is the same thread under a different heading

[Mike]

whats the matter hit a nerve n i find you very repetitive if you want to insult me feel free but my point is valid this is the same thread under a different heading

give it a rest will you

you voiced your views on this thread

end of story

[Guest Tim aka Bob]

Im somewhat surprised by Paul's relaxed attitude to people who buy boots. Don't they put money in the bootleggers' pockets and keep them in business to produce the next batch?

However, I can well understand why people buy the boot in preference to the cost of the original and personally have no problem with it.

I have no idea who is doing boots nowadays but if you're reading this next time you make a bit of dosh out of it, a percentage to Save the Children or similar may make you feel a little better next time Paul or someone draws attention to your dodgy dealings.

As for the young lady reportedly playing an entire set of boots, although an absence of a playlist makes it just conjecture, I would have found it a little dull I guess as I would have heard them all before but then most djs playing originals tend to feature rarer 45s first spun [and hammered] at Wigan or Stafford so not much difference really.

All in all not much of a shock-horror story as it's impact is minimal on the whole.

Finally I hope Chalky keeps his promise and gives Bridget a spot. A bit more input from other areas would be refreshing and go some way to close this divide between the dance floor and the collector.

ROD

Many thanks for that Rod your points are well made. The thing that really hurts US is the terminology in the original post of the original thread, which gives the impression that a young lady played an entitre set of boots, (to paraphrase your comments).

I think the original thread was particularly ambiguous in it's wording of.... '90% non originals'....and open to interpretation.....I will let the reader draw their own conclusions on why this terminology was used. ?!?

[stomper45]

It's really quite simple imho

Since the whole scene began ,it has always largely about people collecting "rare ,obscure" soul records in there original form.

The dj's/collectors of this scene are not to be compared with radio dj's who ,get records for free, to promote them and get paid a living to do so.

99% of dj's at soul venues are by and large collectors of soulmusic,so why this differentiating between a "proper dj" and a "collector dj"? Agreed some are great with a mic ,others not so.

Lets be fair radio dj's learn thier trade at broadcasting college,how many soul dj's are qualified?

As far as ive been aware,it has always been considered etiquette to play original vinyl at soul venues. Only exception has been unreleased acetates and the odd cd track of modern soul,never released on vinyl.

The reason is because this is how the scene was founded,and it was these guy's who went out and discovered the sounds that we hear week in week out.

What is the point of collecting and playing "boot" or copies of original records?If people don't understand and respect the "original vinyl rule" then why bother wasting money on imitations?It's not like you can admire them or feel good about finally getting hold of that long time want.Why not just play cd's at a venue?sounds the same,its cheaper and doesnt damage the medium!You cant be any less thought of.

I'll tell you why ,because for some warped reason,they actually think they are adhering to the vinyl rule

It is not about being elitist or snobbish ,its about respecting those people who went out and discovered the records in the first place.

Ok we've had the argument,people who go to venues don't care if it's on original or copy,they can't tell anyway.That's true ,but come on promotors, theres enough original vinyl dj's out there to warrant not putting on someone who plays copies!It's not about dj fees ,most people i know don't charge ,they take whatever a promotor gives em.

This way everyone is happy ,people who go to dance and have a laugh,are oblivious and carry on enjoying themselves and collector's walk away content in the knowledge they've paid to listen to real records!

From someone who went to soul nights in the late 70's as a 15yr old, with no money to buy records,who just happen's to RESPECT the scene and the people who pioneered it!

nuff said

Nice one Nev, note the advert in events guide didnt inform the paying punters it was an any format policy, funny that

Danny

[Guest Tim aka Bob]

well said nev

Spot on. Nev's comments demonstrate the passion we all have for the scene and how we all get something different from it.

For example, I didn't set out on this incredible journey in 73, and continue to travel 400 miles most weekends, to 'collect rare, obscure soul records in their original form'.

However, I respect the people that did/do and their immense contribution to the Northern Soul Scene.

[Guest minnie mouse]

well, well hasnt this been a witch hunt, i didnt know there was this much hatred and vemon among people who are supposed to have the same love of soul music, i know this has now run its course and we`ve all moved on to more interesting topics like "soul bags", originals or off the peg marks n sparks, but i was at the sed venue on the sed night and saw the sed dj and as the original instigator of this debate/witch hunt has been not been very forthcoming with the truth i feel i must!, with tracks like edwin starr, time , backstreet, chuck jackson, hand it over, i got the need and many more low cost but excellent floor filling originals surely it would have been MORE expensive for her to have these sounds booted than to play the originals!!! and if the "collector" had given us more of these facts in the first place then maybe we could have saved a lot of time and effort and the dj in question wouldnt have been hauled over the coals for something she didnt do ie "played an hour of boots", i for one will be looking for her on future fliers as i know i will be in for a bloody good night as she has done nothing more than most other smaller venue djs and entertained her public, keep the faith girl!!!

[Jellybean]

well, well hasnt this been a witch hunt, i didnt know there was this much hatred and vemon among people who are supposed to have the same love of soul music, i know this has now run its course and we`ve all moved on to more interesting topics like "soul bags", originals or off the peg marks n sparks, but i was at the sed venue on the sed night and saw the sed dj and as the original instigator of this debate/witch hunt has been not been very forthcoming with the truth i feel i must!, with tracks like edwin starr, time , backstreet, chuck jackson, hand it over, i got the need and many more low cost but excellent floor filling originals surely it would have been MORE expensive for her to have these sounds booted than to play the originals!!! and if the "collector" had given us more of these facts in the first place then maybe we could have saved a lot of time and effort and the dj in question wouldnt have been hauled over the coals for something she didnt do ie "played an hour of boots", i for one will be looking for her on future fliers as i know i will be in for a bloody good night as she has done nothing more than most other smaller venue djs and entertained her public, keep the faith girl!!!

VERY WELL SAID!!!! GOOD ON YA!!!! .....JB xxx

[Guest minnie mouse]

thanx JB, didnt think it was fair somehow, now maybe we can all move on to the next poor unsupecting victim... so, what are peoples views on the use of talc??, a usefull aid to the soul enthusiast or just a "two fingers" to the cleaners??

[Jellybean]

thanx JB, didnt think it was fair somehow, now maybe we can all move on to the next poor unsupecting victim... so, what are peoples views on the use of talc??, a usefull aid to the soul enthusiast or just a "two fingers" to the cleaners??

Well me personally......i ~ HATE ~ the ~ F**K*N stuff!!!!

[Guest minnie mouse]

me too, makes you wonder where the idea came from, was some bloke at a distant allniter many moons ago putting it down the front of his bags to stop it all sticking and accidentially spilt some on the floor then nearly slipped on his arse and thought this could be the "start of something big"!!!, hence the birth of stomping!!

[Jellybean]

me too, makes you wonder where the idea came from, was some bloke at a distant allniter many moons ago putting it down the front of his bags to stop it all sticking and accidentially spilt some on the floor then nearly slipped on his arse and thought this could be the "start of something big"!!!, hence the birth of stomping!!

PMSL xxx

[Guest]

thanx JB, didnt think it was fair somehow, now maybe we can all move on to the next poor unsupecting victim... so, what are peoples views on the use of talc??, a usefull aid to the soul enthusiast or just a "two fingers" to the cleaners??

Thanks for message

I spoke to the girl in question on Monday and I knew what she had played but she didnt feel that she had to respond to a pack that had gone on a witch hunt without knowing any of the facts

[Guest minnie mouse]

i agree thats why i had to say something, it seemed to me that everyone was jumping on the band wagon even people who werent there to hear the set, if the original thread had been more accurate and informative then i dont think it would have got so out of hand, i respect her for not replying, the people who went know the truth and those are the people she has entertained and will hopefully carry on entertaining

[Guest eddyg]

well, well hasnt this been a witch hunt, i didnt know there was this much hatred and vemon among people who are supposed to have the same love of soul music, i know this has now run its course and we`ve all moved on to more interesting topics like "soul bags", originals or off the peg marks n sparks, but i was at the sed venue on the sed night and saw the sed dj and as the original instigator of this debate/witch hunt has been not been very forthcoming with the truth i feel i must!, with tracks like edwin starr, time , backstreet, chuck jackson, hand it over, i got the need and many more low cost but excellent floor filling originals surely it would have been MORE expensive for her to have these sounds booted than to play the originals!!! and if the "collector" had given us more of these facts in the first place then maybe we could have saved a lot of time and effort and the dj in question wouldnt have been hauled over the coals for something she didnt do ie "played an hour of boots", i for one will be looking for her on future fliers as i know i will be in for a bloody good night as she has done nothing more than most other smaller venue djs and entertained her public, keep the faith girl!!!

this post just about sums it all up one in the eye to all the petty minded little twats out there in soul land

[Jellybean]

this post just about sums it all up one in the eye to all the petty minded little twats out there in soul land

Too right sweetheart JB xxxxx