Guest Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Should I go and hound Soul Sam off stage at a modern doo because he's playing a hot new CD cut off a vinyl 7" that he's had cut because he doesn't play CD's?? It's a "boot" (OK, not made to sell at a profit, but a "boot" of sorts), but I doubt anyone would care a jot in that scenario!! If you collect originals, that's your choice isn't it? Why should what someone else does affect that..............I'd just be happy owning my originals I think. If you were earning a living from DJ'ing, it would be understandable that you might be a bit pissed off at the proliferation of both DJ's and non-original vinyl, but as it is that's not really the case in most instances is it?? So is it an ego thing? Always read these threads with interest and a degree of amusement..............could say lots more but I'm lazy at typing long replys, and as a modern boy it doesn't really affect me much! Cheers, Mark R Is not a boot so!!,if he`s bought the CD and wants to carve a copy in a format he likes and is not available on said format,and he only does one for himself.........or what we doing sendin`mp3`s and CD swaps thats bootin`aswell
Guest Phil Richards Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 THIS IS VERY ANNOYING,LAST YEAR WHEN OUT AT A REASONABLY LOCAL NITER A D.J OF LONG STANDING ON THE NORTHERN SCENE FROM WAY BACK , HAD NO QUARMS IN PLAYING THE ODD BOOT HERE AND THERE.I MYSELF AS DO MANY OF THE GUYS FROM THE WEST MIDLANDS ONLY PLAY ON ORIGINAL VINYL. I SUPPOSE WE ARE LUCKY IN THE FACT THAT THERE ARE AN ABUNDANCE OF COLLECTORS /D.J.S IN THE AREA.BUT IT STILL PISSES MOST PEOPLE OFF.WHEN YOU FORK OUT A FEW QUID ON A RECORD OR TWO IT'S COMPLETLY YOUR CHOICE NO ONE HOLDS YOU RANSOM . I DON'T THINK YOU'LL EVER STOP THIS KIND OF THING GOING ON ,EXCEPT SWITCHED ON PROMOTERS WHO KNOW THE SCORE. Spot on Mr Soul its down to the promoters who book the dj's
Ged Parker Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Hang on if this was the case ,then I would be sick of hearing the big money tunes,but I never hear em...I think its because many DJ's have the same £20 records, and hammer em to death Bazza Just adding to this , the Venues I attend are as far as I know are original vinyl only ,this is why I never hear the big money tunes, your right I want it all ways If you want to hear the big money tunes that haven't been booted travel to hear the DJ's that have them and ask them to play them. That's what I and many others do. If your local OVO venues never play big money tunes talk to the promotors as has been said there are loads of DJs with expensive records they could book. (doesn't guarantee they're any good mind )
SteveM Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Only a bit? Deceit; 1. the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating: Once she exposed their deceit, no one ever trusted them again. 2. an act or device intended to deceive; trick; stratagem. 3. the quality of being deceitful; duplicity; falseness: a man full of deceit. https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deceit ??? You've lost me Ian.
Epic Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 heres one for ya...on a Cellar full of Motown ,you've got Jimmy ruffin - lucky lucky me...Vocals over the "all for you" instrumental I think its a great tune, and as far as I know never released apart from the motown cd...to think I will never ever hear this played out is just daft. is a carver out of the question ? Bazza I agree with the CD comment - plenty of great "unreleased" tracks on quality CDs. The two RCA CDs released by Kent have some blinding tracks on them - will they ever get played? or is that unacceptable? The Sharon Scott tracks are as good (IMHO) as any of the big tunes played off the RCA label. Sadly not many people will get to dance to them & I think that is wrong. Rarity should never be allowed to get in the way of quality.
Geordiejohnson Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) At the Friendship at xmas we were joking & talking about the amount of vinyl on the stage and then did a quick...."bloody hell" count...and estimated that there was approx £400,000 worth of vinyl on the stage...we promote a venue for originals, thats what the paying public expect from our venue so we provide. my take is.... as long as i keep my credibility, make sure our venue keeps it real and i keep it real when i dj out and about...then i keep my head held high....i do feel it tarnishes the venue if its decent money in and there boots played but if its only a £1 in...well the old addage is ..you get what you pay for. so these venues who allow boots should say anything goes and its only £1 Geeoooooordie Edited January 13, 2008 by geordiejohnson
Mark R Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Is not a boot so!!,if he`s bought the CD and wants to carve a copy in a format he likes and is not available on said format,and he only does one for himself.........or what we doing sendin`mp3`s and CD swaps thats bootin`aswell OK Ken............give or take abit of terminology, it's not the original realease.............that's my point! So it is OK providing he has a real one?? That's my viewpoint, but I've even seen that decried on here! Cheers, Mark R
Ged Parker Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I agree with the CD comment - plenty of great "unreleased" tracks on quality CDs. The two RCA CDs released by Kent have some blinding tracks on them - will they ever get played? or is that unacceptable? The Sharon Scott tracks are as good (IMHO) as any of the big tunes played off the RCA label. Sadly not many people will get to dance to them & I think that is wrong. Rarity should never be allowed to get in the way of quality. Surely the right description is 'Previously Un-released' once they have a legitimate release they are fair game to be played out and if the DJ prefers to have them carved for his preference as long as he bought the release and does intend selling the carver these tracks should be played. IMHO.
Guest craig brelsford Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 has this always gone on or is it a more recent (last couple of years) thing,i know of a couple of venues in notts where certain "djs" play boots.Most of the time the normal punter dont give a fook if its a boot or not but when you collect records yourself and you know its a boot,thats annoying must break your heart but does it break our soul it didnt mine and i lost the lot
Epic Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Surely the right description is 'Previously Un-released' once they have a legitimate release they are fair game to be played out and if the DJ prefers to have them carved for his preference as long as he bought the release and does intend selling the carver these tracks should be played. IMHO. In earlier post somebody talked about sound quality of original over bootleg - surely there is a deterioration when a CD track is put onto a carver. To me a carver is an illegal reproduction - a bootleg. Why not just play the CD? - or will that never be acceptable?
Guest Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) Hello matey wondered when you would add your pennies worth Have you ever tried going up a slippery slope in slippers or did you mean kippers Oops helps if I respond to the person I intended, apologies Edited January 13, 2008 by Guest
Geordiejohnson Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 In earlier post somebody talked about sound quality of original over bootleg - surely there is a deterioration when a CD track is put onto a carver. To me a carver is an illegal reproduction - a bootleg. Why not just play the CD? - or will that never be acceptable? Hey good point if its previously unreleased does that make the CD the original release, mmmmmmmm.....still couldnt bring myself to play off a cd..i think id feel a bit weird... Geeooooooordie
Guest Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Hello matey wondered when you would add your pennies worth Have you ever tried going up a slippery slope in slippers or did you mean kippers?
Geordiejohnson Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Hello matey wondered when you would add your pennies worth Have you ever tried going up a slippery slope in slippers or did you mean kippers Oops helps if I respond to the person I intended, apologies Who's that aimed at!!!!!!slippers..... kippers ....im lost Geeooooordie G
Guest Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I think every thread,that i have read,(at least) have missed, thee most important point.(Apart from j.j's being a very valid statement) There IS a massive difference in sound quality........and if you do know your onions and are going out to listen to quality, its not just hearing the record you want to hear, if it ain't in its original format, all the time and effort the arrangers and producers spent on it is WASTED. Balancing the horns, with the strings and the little tings and scratches from the percussionist, get lost in usually flat muffled wishy washy copys'. For me you lose the peeks in the production and clarity you would get from an original 45..even with pops and ticks on the vinyl!! Please no boots, its hard enough finding somewhere playing real quality, never mind boots to boot!!(way hay) In the "said ladies" defence,however, those of us fortunate enough to have had the money to, collect, originals!! As its never been cheap, in whatever decade you started..Unless you have your contacts...'can afford to criticise,' as well as collect. you can have a passion to achieve something, doesn't always go that you have the means to do so....Does that stop you from trying, and it doesn't mean that your heart is in the wrong place...lets face it there are collecters/dj's who have originals, but no taste whatsoever!!!!! So i would say well done for trying, but from a punters point of view, pressings are not just, taboo, on a collecters scene. On a night out the sound quality is rubbish too. The other main point made is that, collectors are playing there originals, which they have scrimped, saved and searched for...it is a bit rich when a pressing is played of a rare track you were gonna play, comes on before you. I'll put money on it, her music choice was better than some original playing dj's, its just too many taboo's were broken in trying. you can't climb a slippery slope in slippers....you might get half way.....but my word you'll slide down 10 times as quick!! "boots are for climbing" Mike. Have i told you that there's a new night starting in Culcheth..THE SOULFUL SHACK. The Phoenix bar, Royal British legion, Wigshaw lane, Culcheth, Warrington, wa3 4ly.Friday, First of feb, 08. Every first friday after that. Playing 60's soul rnb and popcorn, "on original vinyl"....we have confirmed Mark Bicknell for March then Johnny Fingers, and Dean Mitchell in April..in May it,s Dave Rimmer...we are also guesting some collectors, budding dj's(us two residents included) along the way...keeping in mind Quality always...you cant please all the people all the time...but you can make more of an effort!! Hello matey wondered when you would add your pennies worth Have you ever tried going up a slippery slope in slippers or did you mean kippers?
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 This is a good point,there are many big money tunes I love,but never hear out such as Cautions - no other way Classics - so glad that I found you .........dont think I have heard this for donkeys years there are loads more.but if you did'nt start collecting in the early 70's you have no chance of getting these tunes,they are just too expensive So I never get chance to hear these great tunes....surely this is not right...is it ? Bazza you obviously don't go to the right venues Bazza. I hear expensive and top dollar records every where I go as well as all the indemanders etc. Mick H plays the Classics as does I think Ted Massey, one DJ on your door stop and t'other not far away. I think I heard the Cautions twice over Christmas and I only went to two venues.
Guest Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Who's that aimed at!!!!!!slippers..... kippers ....im lost Geeooooordie G Should have gone back to Posstot, you need to read his post
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Yet to see anyone say "I play boots and I don't care who know's it".. It's a RARE soul scene. Boots and pressings aren't rare. You pay to listen to rare records that the dj's have paid a lot of money for. Pay to get in and hear boots and you've had your money taken under false pretenses. I'd want a refund and then I'd want to leave. ah but some boots/pressings are rare
Guest Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Think tiredness is now kicking in after last night at 6 Hills, still cant get the reply to go to who I want Sod it I'll just ring him
Pete S Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Everything they put into those records was real... the expectation, the frustration, and ultimately the devastation they went through when more often than not that record didn't make it... that sure as hell was real. Unfortunately many of us do jobs that don't work out and we have to move onto something new, it's no different for these artists, they didn't make it in their chosen profession, tough shit.
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 We could have a vote on this to play boots or Originals Only. another one
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 heres one for ya...on a Cellar full of Motown ,you've got Jimmy ruffin - lucky lucky me...Vocals over the "all for you" instrumental I think its a great tune, and as far as I know never released apart from the motown cd...to think I will never ever hear this played out is just daft. is a carver out of the question ? Bazza different scenario Bazza and don't think anyone has said you can't cut unissued material that has only ever seen the light of day on a cd? Know many who do and have and I don't see why anyone shopuild have an issue with this. Same with Kent/Grapevine that release unissued material, get it played.
Geordiejohnson Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 ah but some boots/pressings are rare Quite true there is a collectors circle in the states - worlwide who collect boots..some of them hit big money...some boot labels etc are pretty impressive, i can see the attraction in collecting them for that...but not to play. Geeoooooordie
sister dawn Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) Ok i know this thread has been on before but i just have to get this off my chest. Last night i travelled to a northern soul venue ( No name mentioned ) to listen and enjoy a night of good music and i was not let down. However i have been collecting vinyl now for about 20 years and have a decent collection of originals of which i have spent a small fortune on and seached and haggled for that elusive single to put in my box. So when a Dj gets up and starts playing great originals be it £20 or £2000 i know he has worked hard to build a collection and reputation to stand proudly behind the decks. What a HATE however is a person who strolls up and is allowed to play an hour of bootlegs and re issues of rare records without the other Djs batting an eyelid and stepping off the decks to a round of applause. The set SHE played was fine except for the absence of 90%originals. Maybe im being a little biast but if i had been going on next i would have been cheesed off Knowing a £1000 original i was going to play had been played on a £5 bootleg previously. I realise that the average northern soul punter doesn't care what format the record is as long as they can dance, but surely the event organisers sould stop this to keep some credability to there soul event. Needless to say we left before the end. How did you know she was playing 90 per cent boots??? Is there a sublime secret message on the intros on these boots then that says to the collectors among us..."beware this is a boot" and only collectors can hear it?. Or did you stand by this lass then and scrutinised every single track label and matrix number she was playing? Edited January 13, 2008 by Sister Dawn
Geordiejohnson Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 different scenario Bazza and don't think anyone has said you can't cut unissued material that has only ever seen the light of day on a cd? Know many who do and have and I don't see why anyone shopuild have an issue with this. Same with Kent/Grapevine that release unissued material, get it played. Agree Fine example chalky is Dottie pearson...Bring it over baby.....Wow grapevine only...i play the arse off it ...fantastic Geeooooordie
Simsy Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 ??? You've lost me Ian. Putting on a 'rare soul night' and playing boots is deceitful. Is that deceit evil? That was your question wasn't it? ah but some boots/pressings are rare Ah but would you play them out?
Dave Abbott Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Bloody hell!!! Thats quite a sensible post for you mate Here here!! (how was the tory club ) ..Tory club was... as expected, Steve very good nite though, great venue and packed
SteveM Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 another one That Wendy avatar of yours is'nt the real thing either Chalky. The original doesn't have a Lancashire Red Rose on it for a start. Back on topic, I agree that if its unreleased except on CD, a carver is okay as long as its not for onward sale.
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Agree Fine example chalky is Dottie pearson...Bring it over baby.....Wow grapevine only...i play the arse off it ...fantastic Geeooooordiethere's three or 4 grapevine or kent singles in my playbox sometimes.
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 That Wendy avatar of yours is'nt the real thing either Chalky. The original doesn't have a Lancashire Red Rose on it for a start.
Guest vinylvixen Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 different scenario Bazza and don't think anyone has said you can't cut unissued material that has only ever seen the light of day on a cd? Know many who do and have and I don't see why anyone shopuild have an issue with this. Same with Kent/Grapevine that release unissued material, get it played. 'lucky lucky me' got issued in the 8Ts as a UK release - one with a dreadful 'discoey' beat and one 'radio' mix which is the original track 'stereofied'....I'll have to dig it out and listen to it again - my mind could be playing tricks on me. But it was issued on Motown. However, I know where you're coming from....to think, I can't even play Frank Wilson 'Til You've been gone' off the SS CD I compiled Jo
Guest vinylvixen Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 In earlier post somebody talked about sound quality of original over bootleg - surely there is a deterioration when a CD track is put onto a carver. To me a carver is an illegal reproduction - a bootleg. Why not just play the CD? - or will that never be acceptable? 99% of gigs that I play at don't have a CD player with the decks and kit....will it ever be acceptable - will I ever be 9 stone again??
Simsy Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 there's three or 4 grapevine or kent singles in my playbox sometimes. What Grapevine one's mate?
SteveM Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Putting on a 'rare soul night' and playing boots is deceitful. Is that deceit evil? That was your question wasn't it? No. I never mentioned deceit. You did. I was asking Joan if the use of the word "evil" might be over the top in this case. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyway, do you think then that all deceit is evil ?
Geordiejohnson Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 No. I never mentioned deceit. You did. I was asking Joan if the use of the word "evil" might be over the top in this case. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyway, do you think then that all deceit is evil ?
Epic Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) That Wendy avatar of yours is'nt the real thing either Chalky. The original doesn't have a Lancashire Red Rose on it for a start. Back on topic, I agree that if its unreleased except on CD, a carver is okay as long as its not for onward sale. To me carvers ARE bootlegs - they have been reproduced without the permission of the person who owns the rights to them. Edited January 13, 2008 by epic
SteveM Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 No. I never mentioned deceit. You did. I was asking Joan if the use of the word "evil" might be over the top in this case. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyway, do you think then that all deceit is evil ? Mr Mannion good one...dont think that can be answered honsestly were all guilty of deciving the wives when a nice square parcel drops through the letter box or having them delivered at other peoples houses...weve all done it Geeooooordie
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 What Grapevine one's mate? in my box at moment is a demo of Al Williams Try Them.
Simsy Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 No. I never mentioned deceit. You did. I was asking Joan if the use of the word "evil" might be over the top in this case. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyway, do you think then that all deceit is evil ? 'This case' you speak of is one of deceit. That much goes without saying I would have thought? Not sure about all deceit (esp in this day and age). Ask a card carrying Christian and see what they say.
Guest Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 To me carvers ARE bootlegs - they have been reproduced without the permission of the person who owns the rights to them. Surely bootleg as in bootlegin`is wrong,but not for your own self off LP or CD or 8track you own.
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) To me carvers ARE bootlegs - they have been reproduced without the permission of the person who owns the rights to them. well how do you class the selling of a demonstration copy of a record then and how do you know that who ever playing the carver of an unissued track hasn't had permission? Edited January 13, 2008 by chalky
Guest Trevski Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 To me carvers ARE bootlegs - they have been reproduced without the permission of the person who owns the rights to them. I think legally, If you own the Record, Cd or whatever, you are allowed, in law, to make a copy for your own personal use. This became the case way back, when the cassette tape came into popular home usage.
Epic Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Surely bootleg as in bootlegin`is wrong,but not for your own self off LP or CD or 8track you own. But if you are a DJ & you play a carver at a gig - that ceases to be for your own listening pleasure.
Guest SteveC Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 ...to think, I can't even play Frank Wilson 'Til You've been gone' off the SS CD I compiled Jo borrow my dub of it if u want jo - carvers of course - only the best roll on york in aug btw
SteveM Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 'This case' you speak of is one of deceit. That much goes without saying I would have thought? Not sure about all deceit (esp in this day and age). Ask a card carrying Christian and see what they say. Jesus. My question was whether it could/should be classed as "evil". Not arguing that boots should be allowed, although misrepresentation would be a more correct word than deceit in this case imo. I thought I had.
Mace Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 'lucky lucky me' got issued in the 8Ts as a UK release - one with a dreadful 'discoey' beat and one 'radio' mix which is the original track 'stereofied'....I'll have to dig it out and listen to it again - my mind could be playing tricks on me. But it was issued on Motown. Wasn't it the Marvin Gaye version that was released on Motown 7"? Though why have the Jimmy Ruffin version cut on a carvers when you you can hunt down and play the Marvin Gaye version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhY4InwZNTc
SteveM Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I think legally, If you own the Record, Cd or whatever, you are allowed, in law, to make a copy for your own personal use. This became the case way back, when the cassette tape came into popular home usage. To be pedantic, I don't think personal use actually includes playing them to an audience. Or does it ?
Chalky Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 But if you are a DJ & you play a carver at a gig - that ceases to be for your own listening pleasure. I think the copyright laws are to stop you copying material not playing, if it was even the playing of a cd would be in breach of copyright laws.
Epic Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 how do you know that who ever playing the carver of an unissued track hasn't had permission? Same as I know Santa Claus & the tooth fairy don't exist.
Recommended Posts