Soul Night Disgrace

[Guest Phil Richards]

All doom and gloom on here ain't it? both venues and DJ's being constantly slagged off at the drop of a hat, quite frankly and I'm serious when I say this it matters very little to me how x,y, z DJ's present themselves all I bother about is how I set my stall out, authentic and real simple as that, there are so many negatives going off with this scene it's getting to the stage that I'm sure many of us don't really give a flying fig anymore regarding this petty simply not important stuff, far too much negative opinion for my liking and it's driving a massive wedge into the very heart of this scene and it's not a pretty site, how come I'm made to feel like I really can't be bothered with it anymore on a full on basis? why? I'll tell you why it's because of this 'I know better than you attitude' far too much debate and little else is said or done to actually improve things, simply don't book the pretender DJ's or if you do then don't moan or complain when it goes tit's up like this example, also why is it that the negative threads get loads of hits and comments, replies etc. yet the real deal interesting factual threads on artists, records etc. sometimes are hardly viewed? perhaps having a pop and a dig gives more satisfaction to some than actually making a constructive contribution to something that people can actually benifit from, do something about to change and improve things, no far easier to have a go! the amount of people who no longer come onto forums like this is pretty big and I'm sure because of this constant barrage of the same old arguments and debates, it's boring people big time!

Sure debate is important but so is a resolution and suggestions to correct and improve the scene in general, I'm sure the DJ in question here feels pretty shitty because of the comments here and her only intention was to entertain for an hour, however standing up behind a set of decks on a stage seems to be open season if you can't present the real deal? perhaps we need to get back to the very foundation of the art of DJ'ing and play authentic set's from first generation original authentic 45's then there would be no argument regarding the authentisity of the records at least.

Like I say myself and many other DJ's choose to do it via the original only route but believe me over the years I've seen first hand many DJ boxes with shall we say a real hotch-potch content in terms of 100% authenticity of original records, again from my own personal perspective alongside a good few other DJ's can challenge anyone to find anththing less than original 45's in my DJ boxes, could this be said of everyone out there DJ'ing? I think not. but is it really important? yes to me it is but from the top of this reply it's how I choose to conduct myself and with the way I apply what I do then this commands, respect, reputation, entertainment value etc. as a rare soul DJ because deep down that's what we are dealing with here a rare soul scene, rare means hard to find, not often seen, hard to find etc. and there I will leave it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Spot on Mark

p.s nice set you did at Banbury

[Dr Good Soul]

Don't waste your breath Chalky, we just get accused of 'bickering' 'complaining' and ruining people's good time eh?

I've also said on here as i'm sure others have that you don't need a big wad to play quality originals but i've just read two more posts since then going on about the cost of 'big money' original sounds. Is anyone actually reading the thread?

As i've said before I don't have a problem with venues that don't claim to be original vinyl only but it's a bit sad that some thesedays do feel the need to say that they are. I've seen ONO on flyers from time to time but unfortunately it probably doesn't get more people through the door.

As for the DJ mentioned earlier, nobody is trying to educate or make anyone feel ashamed that they play boots/reissues i hope, but on the positive side if a few more people take the boots and reissues out of their playboxes and try to put together an interesting set with what they have left then this debate will be worthwhile and for me the scene will have been improved. Then all the 'complaining' will have been worthwhile.

[Dr Good Soul]

SPOT ON , MATT

Steve

[Guest]

so let me baby take you dancing show you baby a good time

DANCE DANCE DANCE I WANNA DANCE DANCE DANCE

THIS IS WHAT A SOUL DO IS ABOUT FOR ME

[Bazza]

Why should punters not be able to hear there favourite tunes at a venue because the DJ either can't find or can't afford the original.

This is a good point,there are many big money tunes I love,but never hear out such as

Cautions - no other way

Classics - so glad that I found you .........dont think I have heard this for donkeys years

there are loads more.but if you did'nt start collecting in the early 70's you have no chance of getting these tunes,they are just too expensive

So I never get chance to hear these great tunes....surely this is not right...is it ?

Bazza

[Jumpinjoan]

I can't help but wonder... if the soul scene were to adopt an 'originals only' policy as far as DJing was concerned... would that cut down the amount of venues there are out there?

Bit of a pointless statement really... but hey ho.

Another thing that has hit home about this thread is the use of the word 'RESPECT'.

It never ceases to amaze me just how many people seem to have such a big problem this little word.

Anyway... a few people have said that they feel the people who are playing bootlegs have no respect for DJ's who own the originals.

Excuse me... but when did the soul scene become all about us?

Surely it is the artists that are being disrespected by people playing bootlegs.

After all... soul music would still exist without us... but the soul scene would not exist without the music.

Imo... playing bootlegs kind of sticks two fingers up at all the shit these artists went through... because that shit was real.

Everything they put into those records was real... the expectation, the frustration, and ultimately the devastation they went through when more often than not that record didn't make it... that sure as hell was real.

Yet here we are... despite getting so much enjoyment out of all their shit for the last 35 years or so... these artists are still getting shit on by people not even playing their real records.

No doubt some of you will say I am talking a load of crap... but some people just don't get it... and never will.

And those people will keep on playing bootlegs.

[Jimmy A]

This is a good point,there are many big money tunes I love,but never hear out such as

Cautions - no other way

Classics - so glad that I found you .........dont think I have heard this for donkeys years

there are loads more.but if you did'nt start collecting in the early 70's you have no chance of getting these tunes,they are just too expensive

So I never get chance to hear these great tunes....surely this is not right...is it ?

Bazza

not everyone has got an orig bazza,suppose you could always play a re-issue

[Sweeney]

A problem of the modern age. People don't want to pay their dues and get ideas above their station. Why is it that every one wants to be a DJ? And why are promoters letting such a thing happen?

There are too many (sub standard) DJs and too many soul nights. Too much cronyism and reciprocity - a lot of the same DJs playing at each other's soul nights with no regard to quality or suitability.

Quality suffers. It has to. I've been to too many nights where the DJs just don't have the knowledge or the records or the basic skills needed (in track selection, judging the crowd's mood etc.) to deliver the goods.

And that's not just about money - there have been many occasions where I've sat through a set of trophy records/one-off rarities/alternative acetate cuts and been left bored and cold. Alternatively I've been to do's where the skill and knowledge of the DJ has meant that bargain box cheapies and obscurities have been transformed into sparkling gems which send the crowd wild.

It's up to us as punters to vote with our wallets and refuse to go to places that don't deliver the goods.

[Shaun W]

I've got a pen in my pocket does that make me a writer

Standing on the mountain doesn't make me no higher

Putting on gloves don't make you a fighter

It could also be argued that standing behind the wheels of steel spinning bootlegs doesn't make you a DJ. .There are many who play or support the playing of bootlegs but how many of them will actually come out and support the playing of sets from CD. It's not my thing at all, but for those that do support bootlegs I think it would be more honest and the sound quality would be better if they were using CD's.

Although there are some exceptions, the DJ's who play bootlegs are usually playing very well known, for what of a better word, traditional oldies. Now this isn't an area that I'm particularly interested in but I would guess that any DJ who is could fill the floor with the following two spins: -

The Mighty Marvellows - Talkin' Bout Ya Baby

Spyder Turner - I Can't Make It Anymore

I believe that this pair could be picked up for a combined price of less that £15 without too much difficulty. There are still loads of well known and indeed popular sounds that can be bought easily for very little money. There seems to be a suggestion that to play well know popular oldies you either have to play very expensive records or bootlegs of very expensive record. This simply is not the case, inexpensive does not, nor has it ever meant, unknown and anyone who suggests they have to play bootlegs of big sounds to get the dance floor full is really underestimating, and probably insulting the intelligence of their audience.

[Guest gordon russell]

more thoughts.

1. to many fools want to be dj's thats why some of this bootleg shit happens.2 if boots are ok, put on a do and advertise you will be playing bootlegs and see how well you do 3. proper collector/dj's should walk off the stge if the person before them plays boots.lastly Karl Heard.....top dj ,got his own style,man of musical integrity

[Bazza]

not everyone has got an orig bazza,suppose you could always play a re-issue

I know Jim...I agree boots should not be played at a do', but reissues I cant see the the problem

Bazza

[Guest SteveC]

Blame the promoter(s).

naming and shaming the DJ does no good - it is not their fault. they have been asked to do a job and done it. The promoter should know who he/she is getting on to DJ. And if the promoters policy is to hire DJ's who play boots etc then that is their perogative.

i used to be firmly up my own arse about this and get really pi*sed when DJs played boots; but then i mellowed and saw the bigger picture.

These promoters are putting on soul nites for the enjoyment of their punters. I am of course not talking about 'big' soul nites or niters who aim to bring in peolpe from a far, but the 'local' soul nites - and i don't mean to be degrogatory with that term, there are plenty of excellent 'local' nites; but generally at these venues it is for the 'local' catchment area whose punters want their monthly, or 2 monthly fix of northern soul - and that generally means they want to hear oldies and don't care what format it comes in - original, reissue, boot or cd. They do not want to hear £10 to £50 records they don't know - they want to hear stuff they know to go and dance.

And lets hope that some people attending these nites then want to broaden their horizons and then want to go on further to other venues where the music policy is more to 'our' liking.

But don't diss (that is apperently a hip saying) these events for their music policy - they are providing what is needed for them and their paying punters; and have been a part of the soul scene way before my time, and hopefully way after my time.

After a while you get to know the DJ's and promoters who offer this sort of nite and if you don't like it, don't go. I used to co-promote a nite down here, with Steve C, and our policy was origianls only. And we only booked DJs who would satisfy that - hence alot of local DJs did not get booked and so may have had their noses put out of joint. Tough, that was our policy and we made it clear.

And lets not forget that most DJ's at these events are playing golden oldies to please the floor, so if you have the original - go buy some other different original (i will of course change my stance on this if i start hearing things like the Mello Souls at these do's - then the magic of hearing an original will be gone)

I think there is room for both sort of events within this scene and as i said, hopefull some people at the nites playing boots will go onto the other nites.

And this is from Me, who has NEVER played a boot or reissue in his part-time DJ life.

Bloody hell!!! Thats quite a sensible post for you mate Here here!! (how was the tory club )

[Jimmy A]

I know Jim...I agree boots should not be played at a do', but reissues I cant see the the problem

Bazza

if i had a real cautions and someone at a do played a boot or re-issue before i went on then i wouldnt be very happy

[grant]

agree totally

people buy records (Originals)with there hard earned money

they buy the record off someone who in a lot of cases spends that on

more originals ,,and so it goes on

remember Butch storning onto the stage at Winsford,because someone was

playing a home made acetate of one of his big tunes

he took needle off djs platter,and slat it across stage

i'd a chinned him lol

[Guest craig brelsford]

you lot are all jealous cause she can fill a dance floor and yo canna,all that should matter is she got soul isnt that right mr croasdale.

[Bazza]

if i had a real cautions and someone at a do played a boot or re-issue before i went on then i wouldnt be very happy

Very true Jim, I can see both sides of this,but my point is, its the punters that lose out,by never getting to hear em

Bazza

[chrissie]

you lot are all jealous cause she can fill a dance floor and yo canna,all that should matter is she got soul isnt that right mr croasdale.

No its not all that should matter. If someone like me can't afford to fund big name tunes and she really has got soul, as you put it, she should be able to put a set together with some of the thousands of great cheaper records that are out there if you spend the time to look for them. Virtually anyone could fill a dance floor playing boots of top records but for us lesser mortals with less cash to spare it should be about pleasing a room with what you can afford and love not just buying and playing boots for the dance floor. By doing it this way I am sure she would receive more respect and support from the punters and it would prove her ability as a DJ.

QoFxx

Edited January 13, 2008 by chrissie

[Billywhizz]

Ok i know this thread has been on before but i just have to get this off my chest. Last night i travelled to a northern soul venue ( No name mentioned ) to listen and enjoy a night of good music and i was not let down. However i have been collecting vinyl now for about 20 years and have a decent collection of originals of which i have spent a small fortune on and seached and haggled for that elusive single to put in my box. So when a Dj gets up and starts playing great originals be it £20 or £2000 i know he has worked hard to build a collection and reputation to stand proudly behind the decks.

What a HATE however is a person who strolls up and is allowed to play an hour of bootlegs and re issues of rare records without the other Djs batting an eyelid and stepping off the decks to a round of applause. The set SHE played was fine except for the absence of 90%originals. Maybe im being a little biast but if i had been going on next i would have been cheesed off Knowing a £1000 original i was going to play had been played on a £5 bootleg previously.

I realise that the average northern soul punter doesn't care what format the record is as long as they can dance, but surely the event organisers sould stop this to keep some credability to there soul event. Needless to say we left before the end.

No big deal tiger, lot of top clubs in the 80s and the 90s and 1 is still going today were playing re-issues its a dj thing between them on these originals.

Billy

[Jimmy A]

Very true Jim, I can see both sides of this,but my point is, its the punters that lose out,by never getting to hear em

Bazza

yeah i agree bazza but thats the way it is sometimes,id love to go to a local event and hear jimmy andrews,fascinators,enjoyables (on shrine),antiques,hytones etc etc but seeing that there arent many djs that have um i cant.I would sooner not hear them then have someone come up and play boot legs of them

[Bazza]

No its not all that should matter. If someone like me can't afford to fund big name tunes and she really has got soul, as you put it, she should be able to put a set together with some of the thousands of great cheaper records that are out there if you spend the time to look for them. Virtually anyone could fill a dance floor playing boots of top records but for us lesser mortals with less cash to spare it should be about pleasing a room with what you can afford and love not just buying and playing boots for the dance floor.

QoFxx

this is all very well, but I want to hear some of the the big money tunes.I pay my money I want to hear the the tunes,am I wrong in this ?

Bazza

[Jimmy A]

this is all very well, but I want to hear some of the the big money tunes.I pay my money I want to hear the the tunes,am I wrong in this ?

Bazza

me too bazza,you aint gonna hear them locally unless local promoters (notts) start having quality djs on, i.e djs that have big money records.If that did happen then you come across the old problem of people moaning that the dj is playing that "RARE" shit again which has happened many times before,

You can always follow djs around like people use to and still do

[Ged Parker]

this is all very well, but I want to hear some of the the big money tunes.I pay my money I want to hear the the tunes,am I wrong in this ?

Bazza

My daughter wanted a Lois Vuitton handbag but she worked a weekend job all summer and saved up for it. She could of course have bought a hooky one when we were on holiday for 5% of the price. Some things are (and should be) worth working, waiting and traveling for.

Not everyone thinks that way I know, but this is not very different from the OVO debate really.

[Bazza]

yeah i agree bazza but thats the way it is sometimes,id love to go to a local event and hear jimmy andrews,fascinators,enjoyables (on shrine),antiques,hytones etc etc but seeing that there arent many djs that have um i cant.I would sooner not hear them then have someone come up and play boot legs of them

I know what you saying jim, if I was a collector / Dj I would think the same way,but im not, Im just a punter,sick of hearing the same old stuff, the amount of venues around us, most are not worth the bother of traveling to ,theres only a couple IMO that are worth putting my glad rags on for

Bazza

[grant]

PERSONALLY DONT CARE SO LONG AS TUNE SOUNDS OK AND NOT THE USUAL DROSS THAT GETS PLAYED,

[Ged Parker]

I know what you saying jim, if I was a collector / Dj I would think the same way,but im not, Im just a punter,sick of hearing the same old stuff, the amount of venues around us, most are not worth the bother of traveling to ,theres only a couple IMO that are worth putting my glad rags on for

Bazza

Do you know why you hear "the same old stuff" all the time? It's because if is accepatable to play Frank Wilson, Lou Pride etc etc ect on boots if people stuck to originals you'd hardly have heard these over the last 20 years and they'd still be records you wanted to hear.

You can't have it both ways Bazza

[Guest]

Ok i know this thread has been on before but i just have to get this off my chest. Last night i travelled to a northern soul venue ( No name mentioned ) to listen and enjoy a night of good music and i was not let down. However i have been collecting vinyl now for about 20 years and have a decent collection of originals of which i have spent a small fortune on and seached and haggled for that elusive single to put in my box. So when a Dj gets up and starts playing great originals be it £20 or £2000 i know he has worked hard to build a collection and reputation to stand proudly behind the decks.

What a HATE however is a person who strolls up and is allowed to play an hour of bootlegs and re issues of rare records without the other Djs batting an eyelid and stepping off the decks to a round of applause. The set SHE played was fine except for the absence of 90%originals. Maybe im being a little biast but if i had been going on next i would have been cheesed off Knowing a £1000 original i was going to play had been played on a £5 bootleg previously.

I realise that the average northern soul punter doesn't care what format the record is as long as they can dance, but surely the event organisers sould stop this to keep some credability to there soul event. Needless to say we left before the end.

So does every promoter care about

a) the integrity of the scene and the music played

getting punters through the door, filling the floor and telling their mates what a good night they had

I know there are a lot who strive for a&b but there are those who want to achieve b

I choose with my wallet and my feet by attending the a&b venues but you also have to try new venues and I have made some mistakes although I have asked others for feedback before venturing out

[Hitsville Chalky]

We could have a vote on this to play boots or Originals Only.

[Mr Soul]

THIS IS VERY ANNOYING,LAST YEAR WHEN OUT AT A REASONABLY LOCAL NITER A D.J OF LONG STANDING ON THE NORTHERN SCENE FROM WAY BACK , HAD NO QUARMS IN PLAYING THE ODD BOOT HERE AND THERE.I MYSELF AS DO MANY OF THE GUYS FROM THE WEST MIDLANDS ONLY PLAY ON ORIGINAL VINYL. I SUPPOSE WE ARE LUCKY IN THE FACT THAT THERE ARE AN ABUNDANCE OF COLLECTORS /D.J.S IN THE AREA.BUT IT STILL PISSES MOST PEOPLE OFF.WHEN YOU FORK OUT A FEW QUID ON A RECORD OR TWO IT'S COMPLETLY YOUR CHOICE NO ONE HOLDS YOU RANSOM . I DON'T THINK YOU'LL EVER STOP THIS KIND OF THING GOING ON ,EXCEPT SWITCHED ON PROMOTERS WHO KNOW THE SCORE.

[chrissie]

this is all very well, but I want to hear some of the the big money tunes.I pay my money I want to hear the the tunes,am I wrong in this ?

Bazza

No you are not wrong, I want to hear the big money tunes when I go out, but know which venues with which DJs I am lilkely to hear them at and would'nt expect to hear them everywhere I go. I think it is about promoters/DJs pitching there sets correctly. I play the occasional warm up spots and am more than honoured and happy to be asked to do so, because that suits my style of music and my pocket.

I know I will never be able to play main sets (or even want to) and fill a dance floor with my records or be able to finance the bigger floor fillers so I gear my buying around what I love and what suits my type of set and if she can only afford to buy cheaper records like myself I think she would be better of setting her DJ status sights a little lower for the time being and spend time looking for the great cheapies that are out there.

Most of my records I play are around the £20-£50 region and with some I play that I have picked up for as little as 99p and a couple at the top end of my budget £200 so it can be done. I do take time planning my sets to ensure that they flow easily and this can be as important as what records you play.

I don't class myself as a DJ and would never be so presupmtious to do so, I am just someone who loves sharing the music I love with like minded people. Too many people think they can just buy a load of records and that makes them a DJ, far from it.

QoFxx

[Bazza]

Do you know why you hear "the same old stuff" all the time? It's because if is accepatable to play Frank Wilson, Lou Pride etc etc ect on boots if people stuck to originals you'd hardly have heard these over the last 20 years and they'd still be records you wanted to hear.

You can't have it both ways Bazza

Hang on if this was the case ,then I would be sick of hearing the big money tunes,but I never hear em...I think its because many DJ's have the same £20 records, and hammer em to death

Bazza

Just adding to this , the Venues I attend are as far as I know are original vinyl only ,this is why I never hear the big money tunes, your right I want it all ways

Edited January 13, 2008 by bazza

[Simsy]

We could have a vote on this to play boots or Originals Only.

Yet to see anyone say "I play boots and I don't care who know's it"..

It's a RARE soul scene. Boots and pressings aren't rare. You pay to listen to rare records that the dj's have paid a lot of money for. Pay to get in and hear boots and you've had your money taken under false pretenses. I'd want a refund and then I'd want to leave.

[Jumpinjoan]

Yet to see anyone say "I play boots and I don't care who know's it"..

It's a RARE soul scene. Boots and pressings aren't rare. You pay to listen to rare records that the dj's have paid a lot of money for. Pay to get in and hear boots and you've had your money taken under false pretenses. I'd want a refund and then I'd want to leave.

Like I've said before...

all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing

[Hitsville Chalky]

Yet to see anyone say "I play boots and I don't care who know's it"..

It's a RARE soul scene. Boots and pressings aren't rare. You pay to listen to rare records that the dj's have paid a lot of money for. Pay to get in and hear boots and you've had your money taken under false pretenses. I'd want a refund and then I'd want to leave.

Ian I know what your saying Mate I've also noticed that if they do buy an cheap original they are quick enough to say I brought this the other day on the original label but they carry on playing the more expensive stuff on boots.

[Guest]

Yet to see anyone say "I play boots and I don't care who know's it"..

It's a RARE soul scene. Boots and pressings aren't rare. You pay to listen to rare records that the dj's have paid a lot of money for. Pay to get in and hear boots and you've had your money taken under false pretenses. I'd want a refund and then I'd want to leave.

You would bottle it and just leave Simsy

Edited January 13, 2008 by ken

[Mike Lofthouse]

Yet to see anyone say "I play boots and I don't care who know's it"..

It's a RARE soul scene. Boots and pressings aren't rare. You pay to listen to rare records that the dj's have paid a lot of money for. Pay to get in and hear boots and you've had your money taken under false pretenses. I'd want a refund and then I'd want to leave.

I agree it is a rare soul scene and you pay to listen to rare records and I don't think boots or pressings should be played .....but I don't pay to listen to rare records that the DJs have paid a lot of money for. Anybody can pay a lot of money for something (provided they have a lot of money) .....indeed I hate DJs who just pay a lot of money for records

I prefer my DJs to have a love of Soul music who play a set of original quality Soul that might well contain records that they have paid a lot of money for alongside records they had the foresight to get before they became expensive and also those records that remain cheap but are quality IMHO

Mike

[Epic]

Yet to see anyone say "I play boots and I don't care who know's it"..

It's a RARE soul scene. Boots and pressings aren't rare. You pay to listen to rare records that the dj's have paid a lot of money for. Pay to get in and hear boots and you've had your money taken under false pretenses. I'd want a refund and then I'd want to leave.

Generally most of the scenes "anthems" or "floorfillers" have been booted or re-issued. If you were to play a record like Billy Prophet or The Anderson Brothers (& neither of them were originals) would it affect the amount of people dancing to them? Or would they be too busy running to the decks to check their authenticity?

I guarantee that everybody on this forum has at some stage danced to a record in "non-original" format.

[Simsy]

You would bottle it and just leave Simsy

You know me better than that Ken!

Steve G scenario of a carver being played of a very rare disc in order to preserve the original, is perhaps the only admissible exception? You know he has integrity and could produce the original on request. Therefore peace of mind and vfm are intact.

Easy to see why some have said "oh ffs just get on with it and play some good sounds whatever" - when we have to dissect and analyze these points under a microscope.

Dave Rimmer said I can't play my unreleased carver of 'Someday the sun will shine' because I wasn't the first one to pay big money for it. He has a point and my point is look how anal we're capable of being with regards this sort of thing. Yet still we should strive to have standards for the reason stated by Joan above.

[Hitsville Chalky]

Dave Rimmer said I can't play my unreleased carver of 'Someday the sun will shine' because I wasn't the first one to pay big money for it.

Can not understand why , if I had it cut for £100 and you got one done for £50

Fair play to you and you should still be able to play it.

[Simsy]

I agree it is a rare soul scene and you pay to listen to rare records and I don't think boots or pressings should be played .....but I don't pay to listen to rare records that the DJs have paid a lot of money for. Anybody can pay a lot of money for something (provided they have a lot of money) .....indeed I hate DJs who just pay a lot of money for records

I prefer my DJs to have a love of Soul music who play a set of original quality Soul that might well contain records that they have paid a lot of money for alongside records they had the foresight to get before they became expensive and also those records that remain cheap but are quality IMHO

Mike

Agree with that Mike. For a credible soul night in a decent sized venue however it's likely they'd have some rare and expensive as well. A balanced mix would perhaps be the best set.

Generally most of the scenes "anthems" or "floorfillers" have been booted or re-issued. If you were to play a record like Billy Prophet or The Anderson Brothers (& neither of them were originals) would it affect the amount of people dancing to them? Or would they be too busy running to the decks to check their authenticity?

I guarantee that everybody on this forum has at some stage danced to a record in "non-original" format.

I played Pat & The Blenders at the 100 Club once and someone ran on the stage and peered at the label. You know it goes on. They're entitled to do it. You can't stop stage runners. Is it worth the shame of pretending to be something you're not?

[Bazza]

heres one for ya...on a Cellar full of Motown ,you've got Jimmy ruffin - lucky lucky me...Vocals over the "all for you" instrumental I think its a great tune, and as far as I know never released apart from the motown cd...to think I will never ever hear this played out is just daft. is a carver out of the question ?

Bazza

[SteveM]

Like I've said before...

all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing

Evil ? Bit over the top surely Joan ?

[Guest posstot]

I think every thread,that i have read,(at least) have missed, thee most important point.(Apart from j.j's being a very valid statement) There IS a massive difference in sound quality........and if you do know your onions and are going out to listen to quality, its not just hearing the record you want to hear, if it ain't in its original format, all the time and effort the arrangers and producers spent on it is WASTED.

Balancing the horns, with the strings and the little tings and scratches from the percussionist, get lost in usually flat muffled wishy washy copys'. For me you lose the peeks in the production and clarity you would get from an original 45..even with pops and ticks on the vinyl!!

Please no boots, its hard enough finding somewhere playing real quality, never mind boots to boot!!(way hay)

In the "said ladies" defence,however, those of us fortunate enough to have had the money to, collect, originals!! As its never been cheap, in whatever decade you started..Unless you have your contacts...'can afford to criticise,' as well as collect.

you can have a passion to achieve something, doesn't always go that you have the means to do so....Does that stop you from trying, and it doesn't mean that your heart is in the wrong place...lets face it there are collecters/dj's who have originals, but no taste whatsoever!!!!!

So i would say well done for trying, but from a punters point of view, pressings are not just, taboo, on a collecters scene. On a night out the sound quality is rubbish too.

The other main point made is that, collectors are playing there originals, which they have scrimped, saved and searched for...it is a bit rich when a pressing is played of a rare track you were gonna play, comes on before you.

I'll put money on it, her music choice was better than some original playing dj's, its just too many taboo's were broken in trying.

you can't climb a slippery slope in slippers....you might get half way.....but my word you'll slide down 10 times as quick!! "boots are for climbing"

Mike.

Have i told you that there's a new night starting in Culcheth..THE SOULFUL SHACK. The Phoenix bar, Royal British legion, Wigshaw lane, Culcheth, Warrington, wa3 4ly.Friday, First of feb, 08. Every first friday after that. Playing 60's soul rnb and popcorn, "on original vinyl"....we have confirmed Mark Bicknell for March then Johnny Fingers, and Dean Mitchell in April..in May it,s Dave Rimmer...we are also guesting some collectors, budding dj's(us two residents included)

along the way...keeping in mind Quality always...you cant please all the people all the time...but you can make more of an effort!!

[Guest posstot]

Like I've said before...

all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing

i know all about that joan!!

[Mark R]

Should I go and hound Soul Sam off stage at a modern doo because he's playing a hot new CD cut off a vinyl 7" that he's had cut because he doesn't play CD's??

It's a "boot" (OK, not made to sell at a profit, but a "boot" of sorts), but I doubt anyone would care a jot in that scenario!!

If you collect originals, that's your choice isn't it? Why should what someone else does affect that..............I'd just be happy owning my originals I think.

If you were earning a living from DJ'ing, it would be understandable that you might be a bit pissed off at the proliferation of both DJ's and non-original vinyl, but as it is that's not really the case in most instances is it?? So is it an ego thing?

Always read these threads with interest and a degree of amusement..............could say lots more but I'm lazy at typing long replys, and as a modern boy it doesn't really affect me much!

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited January 13, 2008 by Mark R

[Simsy]

Evil ? Bit over the top surely Joan ?

Only a bit?

Deceit;

1. the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating: Once she exposed their deceit, no one ever trusted them again.

2. an act or device intended to deceive; trick; stratagem.

3. the quality of being deceitful; duplicity; falseness: a man full of deceit.

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deceit

Edited January 13, 2008 by Ian Sims

[Craig W]

I think every thread,that i have read,(at least) have missed, thee most important point.(Apart from j.j's being a very valid statement) There IS a massive difference in sound quality

Yes , no need to walk up to the decks to check whats on the turntable most of the time as the bootleg / pressings mostly seem to be of a quieter and very lesser quality than originals.

Something I have picked up on quite a lot lately at venues by listening closely.

[Guest posstot]

So does every promoter care about

a) the integrity of the scene and the music played

getting punters through the door, filling the floor and telling their mates what a good night they had

I know there are a lot who strive for a&b but there are those who want to achieve b

I choose with my wallet and my feet by attending the a&b venues but you also have to try new venues and I have made some mistakes although I have asked others for feedback before venturing out

Puff!!

[Simsy]

Should I go and hound Soul Sam off stage at a modern doo because he's playing a hot new CD cut off a vinyl 7" that he's had cut because he doesn't play CD's??

? Lost me a bit there Mark.

[Jimmy A]

heres one for ya...on a Cellar full of Motown ,you've got Jimmy ruffin - lucky lucky me...Vocals over the "all for you" instrumental I think its a great tune, and as far as I know never released apart from the motown cd...to think I will never ever hear this played out is just daft. is a carver out of the question ?

Bazza

i think having a carver done of an un-released track is also done alot nowdays,Its not the same as playing boots of well know 45s.Ive got a few motown tracks i wouldnt mind having done,dont know if i would play them out though

[Hitsville Chalky]

heres one for ya...on a Cellar full of Motown ,you've got Jimmy ruffin - lucky lucky me...Vocals over the "all for you" instrumental I think its a great tune, and as far as I know never released apart from the motown cd...to think I will never ever hear this played out is just daft. is a carver out of the question ?

Bazza

I've played it on a carvers ,its unissed so nothing wrong with that , Also The Vows " Show Girl "