Cecil Washington & Vicky Baines

[Wiganer1]

2 classic wigan monsters

didn't someone get into trouble for pressing these up in the early 80s?

anyone own to playing them out ?

[Peter99]

2 classic wigan monsters

didn't someone get into trouble for pressing these up in the early 80s?

anyone own to playing them out ?

I don't know! Vickie Baines is pure class though. In my opinion obvioiusly!

[Peter99]

so's Cecil - nearly missd that

[Prophonics 2029]

great foot wear.

Or should I say boots, allways expected a Grapevine issue for these two.

[Chalky]

wasn't the trouble with Group feat Cecil because a second copy found and was uncovered straight away, Richard vowed never to play it again or summat like? The Group feat Cecil later on a Soul Supply boot, white label along with Nomads, Ellusions and another that escapes me right now.

[Zed1]

2 classic wigan monsters

didn't someone get into trouble for pressing these up in the early 80s?

anyone own to playing them out ?

Fantastic Tracks....

IIRC Didn't RS cover the CW track as Joe Mathews??......

[grant]

Fantastic Tracks....

IIRC Didn't RS cover the CW track as Joe Mathews??......

he certainly did

[Harry Crosby]

wasn't the trouble with Group feat Cecil because a second copy found and was uncovered straight away, Richard vowed never to play it again or summat like? The Group feat Cecil later on a Soul Supply boot, white label along with Nomads, Ellusions and another that escapes me right now.

Don`t know wether it was me first but when i told him of my copy on the stage at wigan he went nuts! n said he was never gonna play it again got mine of a lad from selby called colly, was at a dayer near selby highwaymans halt snaith, n we were talking record he said ive got a few for sale if you wanna pop to my house so we went n there it was in his sales box, also got a copy of leo & co HOTDOG-12" GAMMA that day wich i sold to ron padley n never seen another.

[Harry Crosby]

he certainly did

wasn`t it joe mathews& the inverts-i don`t like to lose-kool kat 1004

[Guest topcatnumpty1]

While it was still covered as Joe Matthews,there was a long standing rumour it was really---The Orchids on Kool Kat as well--i seem to recall --Rod Shard trying to sell a still covered up copy b4 Kev Draper uncovered it(as has already ,been mentioned much to Richards displeasure).

Regards

T.C. AND T.F.H.

wasn`t it joe mathews& the inverts-i don`t like to lose-kool kat 1004

[Harry Crosby]

While it was still covered as Joe Matthews,there was a long standing rumour it was really---The Orchids on Kool Kat as well--i seem to recall --Rod Shard trying to sell a still covered up copy b4 Kev Draper uncovered it(as has already ,been mentioned much to Richards displeasure).

Regards

T.C. AND T.F.H.

Correct mr colby as usual, must have either just been uncovered or still covered when i got mine, remember asking colly what`s this n he said, thats the joe mathews c/u richard was playing a slight JAW DROPPING MOMENT then the princly sum of £80 CHANGED HANDS

[Chalky]

While it was still covered as Joe Matthews,there was a long standing rumour it was really---The Orchids on Kool Kat as well--i seem to recall --Rod Shard trying to sell a still covered up copy b4 Kev Draper uncovered it(as has already ,been mentioned much to Richards displeasure).

Regards

T.C. AND T.F.H.

Kev Draper the one I was thinking off.

Good to see Kev again t'other night at Peterboro'.

[Prophonics 2029]

Don`t know wether it was me first but when i told him of my copy on the stage at wigan he went nuts! n said he was never gonna play it again got mine of a lad from selby called colly, was at a dayer near selby highwaymans halt snaith, n we were talking record he said ive got a few for sale if you wanna pop to my house so we went n there it was in his sales box, also got a copy of leo & co HOTDOG-12" GAMMA that day wich i sold to ron padley n never seen another.

First Copy I saw and ever remember seeing was from a guy called Mark from Morcombe he brought it to the Casino, he allways sat left of the stage from the dance floor, not sure if Gary Rush had his copy by then.

Found 10 Leo & Co's for 50p each in Blackpool and thought I would make a mint selling them for £20 each, found that not many people new it and just lost them over the years

Edited December 28, 2007 by Prophonics 2029

[Simsy]

2 classic wigan monsters

didn't someone get into trouble for pressing these up in the early 80s?

anyone own to playing them out ?

Got the dodgy soul sounds Cecil Washington somewhere. Would NEVER play it out.

Think Kev Roberts said his real one came from the man himself.

[Chalky]

dunno if true or not or just an urban myth but soemone once said they saw the tax returns or summat like for the label and there were thousands of I Don't Like To Lose pressed. There was also another where they were all in a lock up/garage in Detroit but think that one's been proved to be a myth?

Edited December 28, 2007 by chalky

[Prophonics 2029]

Prob was thousands you still don't see it that often so it must be in the lower thousands.

[Chalky]

Prob was thousands you still don't see it that often so it must be in the lower thousands.

13,000 rings a bell but it was a long time ago the conversation, amidst the usual boll*cks you talk at an all-nighter or where ever it was

[Prophonics 2029]

13,000 rings a bell but it was a long time ago the conversation, amidst the usual boll*cks you talk at an all-nighter or where ever it was

And they were pressed on a Friday- Lucky.

[jocko]

Don`t know wether it was me first but when i told him of my copy on the stage at wigan he went nuts! n said he was never gonna play it again got mine of a lad from selby called colly, was at a dayer near selby highwaymans halt snaith, n we were talking record he said ive got a few for sale if you wanna pop to my house so we went n there it was in his sales box, also got a copy of leo & co HOTDOG-12" GAMMA that day wich i sold to ron padley n never seen another.

Paul Collinson from Selby, fantastic lad and fantastic records back then, way ahead of the game. Surprised at above as he was very in with Richard and got tips from him I thought, believe he went on to be a police man!! Anyone confirm?

First Copy I saw and ever remember seeing was from a guy called Mark from Morcombe he brought it to the Casino, he allways sat left of the stage from the dance floor, not sure if Gary Rush had his copy by then.

Found 10 Leo & Co's for 50p each in Blackpool and thought I would make a mint selling them for £20 each, found that not many people new it and just lost them over the years

Marc Farley, later to find "fame" as Morecombes leading light on Modern scene, another one of Richards faves, for a short while anyway! Not sure what happened to him but remember him having lots of stuff like this way ahead of others.

Used to know both very well.

[Harry Crosby]

Paul Collinson from Selby, fantastic lad and fantastic records back then, way ahead of the game. Surprised at above as he was very in with Richard and got tips from him I thought, believe he went on to be a police man!! Anyone confirm?

Marc Farley, later to find "fame" as Morecombes leading light on Modern scene, another one of Richards faves, for a short while anyway! Not sure what happened to him but remember him having lots of stuff like this way ahead of others.

Used to know both very well.

yeh paul collinson, still around goes to drax i understand he`s living in or near bradford, i used to be a big friend of paul havn`t seen much of him latley still see kim white from selby in fact he`s djing in york at the junction leeman road york on sunday with me, met a lot of thos ads at st mary`s selby many moons ago

[Trev Thomas]

yeh paul collinson, still around goes to drax i understand he`s living in or near bradford, i used to be a big friend of paul havn`t seen much of him latley still see kim white from selby in fact he`s djing in york at the junction leeman road york on sunday with me, met a lot of thos ads at st mary`s selby many moons ago

any excuse for a plug...shame on you harry

[Chalky]

maybe totally wrong here but didn't the record (The Group that is not Vicki Baines) cause a stir at the time of it's recording, something to do with the racial tensions of the time?

Edited December 28, 2007 by chalky

[soulsalmon]

Paul Collinson from Selby, fantastic lad and fantastic records back then, way ahead of the game. Surprised at above as he was very in with Richard and got tips from him I thought, believe he went on to be a police man!! Anyone confirm?

Marc Farley, later to find "fame" as Morecombes leading light on Modern scene, another one of Richards faves, for a short while anyway! Not sure what happened to him but remember him having lots of stuff like this way ahead of others.

Used to know both very well.

Mr O'Connor,you doing middleton on the 27 th?

Salmon

[soulsalmon]

Mr O'Connor,you doing middleton on the 27 th?

Salmon

29th

[Harry Crosby]

any excuse for a plug...shame on you harry

As you may have heard if your up to speed i havn`t run the junction for the past three years

[Simon T]

dunno if true or not or just an urban myth but soemone once said they saw the tax returns or summat like for the label and there were thousands of I Don't Like To Lose pressed.

Prob was thousands you still don't see it that often so it must be in the lower thousands.

13,000 rings a bell but it was a long time ago the conversation, amidst the usual boll*cks you talk at an all-nighter or where ever it was

Makes you wonder how many were pressed up, even on the smallest of labels, in anticiption from feedback from local air plays?

Tim Tam - Wait A Minute on Palmer sold 30,000 in the first week of release, and continued to sell well for quite a while!

[Prophonics 2029]

maybe totally wrong here but didn't the record (The Group that is not Vicki Baines) cause a stir at the time of it's recording, something to do with the racial tensions of the time?

I have heard this but how with a Black singer, I still think The Group Featuring is Cecil and his brothers.

I will put another sound clip up and you should see that he was working on the music.

[Chalky]

I have heard this but how with a Black singer, I still think The Group Featuring is Cecil and his brothers.

I will put another sound clip up and you should see that he was working on the music.

I heard the band was white?

[Souljazera]

i thought the cecil rumour was a large box in a warehouse outside detroit ...names i forget...but it was over 10 years ago so i guess they never existed..must have been rival record dealer envy... TOP TOP RECORD PROBABLY MY FAVE NORTHERN WIGAN SOUND

THOSE WHERE THE DAYS..........

[Mark W]

i thought the cecil rumour was a large box in a warehouse outside detroit ...names i forget...but it was over 10 years ago so i guess they never existed..must have been rival record dealer envy... TOP TOP RECORD PROBABLY MY FAVE NORTHERN WIGAN SOUND

THOSE WHERE THE DAYS..........

Remember Martin Koppel doing an article in Shades of Soul with a story saying how he saw a box with 100

's of cxopies in a Detroit warehouse. Think the story went that the warehouse owner had an idea of what he had and wanted a big price for each copy so Koppel left trhem. When he visited the warehouse again the owner claimed to have sold each copy to UK for top dollar which, as the article said, was obviously not true.

Anyone got a copy of that article they could post, Derek Pearson maybe?

[Simon T]

I heard the band was white?

Looks like they may have been; interesting read here from the bass player and song writer Oliver W. Tuthill

https://www.olivertuthill.com/Oliver-Tuthil...-highlights.asp

[Prophonics 2029]

Well found Simon great stuff a lot of it goes over my head, the other band names etc.

The Bill's Melody is by Bill Latchaw.

Edited December 28, 2007 by Prophonics 2029

[Peter99]

Looks like they may have been; interesting read here from the bass player and song writer Oliver W. Tuthill

https://www.olivertuthill.com/Oliver-Tuthil...-highlights.asp

Yep - that's a real interesting read Simon. Thanks

.

[Cheltsoulnights]

2 classic wigan monsters

didn't someone get into trouble for pressing these up in the early 80s?

anyone own to playing them out ?

i play both out (from originals)

sold vickie a couple of years ago for a lot (on demo)

got an issue back last month off here

The story i heard was arthur fenn bought it off richard for silly money and played it at cleevethorpes. as he took it off the decks and was talking to several super interested punters. someone stood behind him noticed the other side was not covered up and clocked the label. the rest is history.

Perhaps Arthur can confirm?

The sos pressings i think came out first. they definetly sold an awefull lot of them for sure

[Harry Crosby]

Looks like they may have been; interesting read here from the bass player and song writer Oliver W. Tuthill

https://www.olivertuthill.com/Oliver-Tuthil...-highlights.asp

Very intresting indeed, love stuff like that, well found

[Guest topcatnumpty1]

No---Kev Draper(was from the St.Neots area--i believe)was resposible for the uncovering of Cecil Washington WHILST--R.S.--still owned and was playing his copy at Wigan.

T.C. AND T.F.H.

Very intresting indeed, love stuff like that, well found

[Prophonics 2029]

Yes it was uncovered whilst RS was playing it 1980. I did think that the boots came out after the Casino closed but not sure.

So to get a record in the charts how many copies did you have to sell in 1967.

[De-to]

Yes it was uncovered whilst RS was playing it 1980. I did think that the boots came out after the Casino closed but not sure.

So to get a record in the charts how many copies did you have to sell in 1967.

hope this youtube link works ok,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCPAqkzJWIM

Edited December 30, 2007 by de-to

[Peter99]

hope this youtube link works ok,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCPAqkzJWIM

Yes it does mate.

Nice one!

[De-to]

Yes it does mate.

Nice one!

i was never a big fan of v,baines tune the sound quality always seemed very distorted or was it the speakers??,but a big tune in the day i think it was covered up as christine cooper not sure though,i preffered the c,washington tune,my old mate and huntingdons finest kev draper got his copy in the usa on one of his record buying trips years ago,much to sir dickies annoyance when he played it at a all-nighter in the land of the posh one night,have not asked him if he still has his copy but if not who purchased it from him and what was the year he sold it and for how much £££.

[Peter99]

i was never a big fan of v,baines tune the sound quality always seemed very distorted or was it the speakers??,but a big tune in the day i think it was covered up as christine cooper not sure though,i preffered the c,washington tune,my old mate and huntingdons finest kev draper got his copy in the usa on one of his record buying trips years ago,much to sir dickies annoyance when he played it at a all-nighter in the land of the posh one night,have not asked him if he still has his copy but if not who purchased it from him and what was the year he sold it and for how much £££.

I thought both tunes were awesome - still think they're top, top sounds. It's funny - but I always thought the Group tune was the distorted one!

I think some of the other posts say a bit more about where the record(s) went etc.

[Maria O]

The story i heard was arthur fenn bought it off richard for silly money and played it at cleevethorpes. as he took it off the decks and was talking to several super interested punters. someone stood behind him noticed the other side was not covered up and clocked the label. the rest is history.

Perhaps Arthur can confirm?

I don't know how many times I've said this, but he's not on Soul Source. We don't share machines or such conversations, however, somebody pointed him to this and he'd like to clarify this.

(and I might get a free dinner for typing this out )

==========

A few weeks before it was semi-uncovered, Arthur had arranged with Richard to buy the second copy that he'd got off John Anderson. It was £250 (huge money at the time - and even now for many). The deal was meant to take place at the Toddmorden alldayer, but Richard didn't bring it - so Arthur was sold his first covered-up copy for an agreed swap later. They then swapped it at the next Snaith alldayer, where a very excited Arthur grabbed a label off another cover-up to mask the play side of his new uncovered copy.

The record finished and he had a few guys rushing up to the decks. As he held it up to them (too excited to think clearly), the guys coming up on the other side could see the unmasked flip. He felt sick when he heard "I know what it is" and realised his mistake, but he says they didn't guess the label correctly.

Six months later or so circa 1980, Kev Draper got his copy - believed to also be from Soul Bowl - and played it UNCOVERED (much to their disgust at the time) at the Peterborough allniter.

When Arthur sold up his Northern records about a year later, his copy went to Paul Collinson from Selby, who Arthur says had great taste.

===================

Edited December 30, 2007 by Maria O

[Guest topcatnumpty1]

Hey,Maria--that clears up a lot of things--and also ties up various tales and so called --urban myths!!

Cheers

Tony Coleby

I don't know how many times I've said this, but he's not on Soul Source. We don't share machines or such conversations, however, somebody pointed him to this and he'd like to clarify this.

(and I might get a free dinner for typing this out

)

==========

A few weeks before it was semi-uncovered, Arthur had arranged with Richard to buy the second copy that he'd got off John Anderson. It was £250 (huge money at the time - and even now for many). The deal was meant to take place at the Toddmorden alldayer, but Richard didn't bring it - so Arthur was sold his first covered-up copy for an agreed swap later. They then swapped it at the next Snaith alldayer, where a very excited Arthur grabbed a label off another cover-up to mask the play side of his new uncovered copy.

The record finished and he had a few guys rushing up to the decks. As he held it up to them (too excited to think clearly), the guys coming up on the other side could see the unmasked flip. He felt sick when he heard "I know what it is" and realised his mistake, but he says they didn't guess the label correctly.

Six months later or so circa 1980, Kev Draper got his copy - believed to also be from Soul Bowl - and played it UNCOVERED (much to their disgust at the time) at the Peterborough allniter.

When Arthur sold up his Northern records about a year later, his copy went to Paul Collinson from Selby, who Arthur says had great taste.

===================

[Prophonics 2029]

Yes, I stand corrected, The Group were white until the Cecil vocal was used on the record.

There is talk that it pressed up in big numbers , it was 40 in the charts for The Light Of Day.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Prophonics 2029

[Guest inspirations001]

I don't know how many times I've said this, but he's not on Soul Source. We don't share machines or such conversations, however, somebody pointed him to this and he'd like to clarify this.

(and I might get a free dinner for typing this out )

==========

A few weeks before it was semi-uncovered, Arthur had arranged with Richard to buy the second copy that he'd got off John Anderson. It was £250 (huge money at the time - and even now for many). The deal was meant to take place at the Toddmorden alldayer, but Richard didn't bring it - so Arthur was sold his first covered-up copy for an agreed swap later. They then swapped it at the next Snaith alldayer, where a very excited Arthur grabbed a label off another cover-up to mask the play side of his new uncovered copy.

The record finished and he had a few guys rushing up to the decks. As he held it up to them (too excited to think clearly), the guys coming up on the other side could see the unmasked flip. He felt sick when he heard "I know what it is" and realised his mistake, but he says they didn't guess the label correctly.

Six months later or so circa 1980, Kev Draper got his copy - believed to also be from Soul Bowl - and played it UNCOVERED (much to their disgust at the time) at the Peterborough allniter.

When Arthur sold up his Northern records about a year later, his copy went to Paul Collinson from Selby, who Arthur says had great taste.

===================

had,great taste!! i still have! been reading the quotes on here regarding cecil washington. i did buy arthur fenns copy, i still have the old sleeve with "joe mathews" c/u on it. sad eh! the record was uncovered by mr draper and i can still see richards face when he found out. harry you paid more than £80 or so for it, maybe i can give you £80 back and take the record back!!! i once bought jackie beavers on revilot off richard and then he bought it back cos he was told not to sell it. i think that was £100. he gave me £80 and troy johnson on soulbeat. i'll never be a millionaire. happy days!!!!

[Cheltsoulnights]

I don't know how many times I've said this, but he's not on Soul Source. We don't share machines or such conversations, however, somebody pointed him to this and he'd like to clarify this.

(and I might get a free dinner for typing this out )

==========

A few weeks before it was semi-uncovered, Arthur had arranged with Richard to buy the second copy that he'd got off John Anderson. It was £250 (huge money at the time - and even now for many). The deal was meant to take place at the Toddmorden alldayer, but Richard didn't bring it - so Arthur was sold his first covered-up copy for an agreed swap later. They then swapped it at the next Snaith alldayer, where a very excited Arthur grabbed a label off another cover-up to mask the play side of his new uncovered copy.

The record finished and he had a few guys rushing up to the decks. As he held it up to them (too excited to think clearly), the guys coming up on the other side could see the unmasked flip. He felt sick when he heard "I know what it is" and realised his mistake, but he says they didn't guess the label correctly.

Six months later or so circa 1980, Kev Draper got his copy - believed to also be from Soul Bowl - and played it UNCOVERED (much to their disgust at the time) at the Peterborough allniter.

When Arthur sold up his Northern records about a year later, his copy went to Paul Collinson from Selby, who Arthur says had great taste.

===================

Told you

Make sure its not Mcdonalds Maria

[Harry Crosby]

had,great taste!! i still have! been reading the quotes on here regarding cecil washington. i did buy arthur fenns copy, i still have the old sleeve with "joe mathews" c/u on it. sad eh! the record was uncovered by mr draper and i can still see richards face when he found out. harry you paid more than £80 or so for it, maybe i can give you £80 back and take the record back!!! i once bought jackie beavers on revilot off richard and then he bought it back cos he was told not to sell it. i think that was £100. he gave me £80 and troy johnson on soulbeat. i'll never be a millionaire. happy days!!!!

Happy days indeed matey, stand corrected as you reliably informed me at the weekend it was £120 not £80 long time ago now thats my excuse anyway, good to see you on here at last.

[Prophonics 2029]

I asked Bill about the 1812 Overture, he said the horn's was a Beatle's Penny Lane sound that they were trying to mimic.

He played base on the track but never signed a contract with Prophonics, they got him to come over from Chicago for a live gig but got another base player to fill in.

His mate Christopher Edwards also in another band he was with played the guitar and the rest of the group Larry Johnson on drums, Al Shane on Keyboards plus the 2 girls were session musicians.

Edited January 5, 2008 by Prophonics 2029