A Open Question To Dave Thorley

[arnie j]

seems to me that there are many books written about the scene and its venues, especially memoirs of great venues that are no longer with us so my question to mr thorley is this....

would you ever consider writing a book about one of, if not the best,nighters of all time, STAFFORD top of the world ?

[Guest]

seems to me that there are many books written about the scene and its venues, especially memoirs of great venues that are no longer with us so my question to mr thorley is this....

would you ever consider writing a book about one of, if not the best,nighters of all time, STAFFORD top of the world ?

Why?,be a short read i s`pose

[Simsy]

Why?,be a short read i s`pose

Why a short read Ken?

Stafford was ground breaking, pages worth.

Think Arnie's on to something.

[Guest]

Why a short read Ken?

Stafford was ground breaking, pages worth.

Think Arnie's on to something.

Ground breakin`,go on then mr Sims go over some of the ground it broke why dont Arnie write it

[arnie j]

too true ian, theres got to be enough info on stafford to easily fill a book, what about the charactors, the record finds, the relationship between the 60s mafia, the record hounds who fed the djs etc ? the list could be endless

[arnie j]

Ground breakin`,go on then mr Sims go over some of the ground it broke why dont Arnie write it

cos i cant spell very good ken !

[Simsy]

Ground breakin`,go on then mr Sims go over some of the ground it broke why dont Arnie write it

You know full well H.

And don't tell me you ain't a fan of that mid-tempo stuff.

[Guest]

too true ian, theres got to be enough info on stafford to easily fill a book, what about the charactors, the record finds, the relationship between the 60s mafia, the record hounds who fed the djs etc ? the list could be endless

Most of the caractors could be seen at most other places,most of the records you could hear most other places......ground breakin`anybody carried on where Clifton hall left off!!,and there are two era`s;Top dog and Three voices.

[Guest]

You know full well H.

And don't tell me you ain't a fan of that mid-tempo stuff.

Mid-tempo,beat ballards imported from darn sarf 100cub and stuff.but then so where most of the DJs,Keb,Guy etc.

[Guest]

cos i cant spell very good ken !

I`ll be your proof writer.Its ok anyway most of us cant read.

[Guest]

Mid-tempo,beat ballards imported from darn sarf 100cub and stuff.but then so where most of the DJs,Keb,Guy etc.

Guy was on everywhere at that time in the UK, North,South, East and West!

[Guest]

Guy was on everywhere at that time in the UK, North,South, East and West!

Yeh!!but he lived darn here

[Tomangoes]

Never went to Stafford. I suppose it was the start of my 'lost years'.

Before anybody writes a book, why dont those soul sources who did go send in some posts about why it deserves one and educate us all.

Ed

[arnie j]

because i loved it mate and wuold be interested to know more of the ins and outs, the organising in the early days etc, nothin more nothin less ! same reason as people read books about anything under the sun, didnt mean to start something, was just an innocent post

[Dave Thorley]

Interesting thought. But my memory is shot would need alot of help.

As someone has said already there is a fair bit to write about and not just the records, people etc. But the times as well, Thatcher, the miners strike, the change in the drug culture, fashion , many that came were out of work at the time.

I'll have a word with Micky Ritson, he might be interested in publishing it.

Trouble is, that was just one club, that at the end of the day not that many attended compared to Wigan, Yate or The Mecca. Would there be enough people interested in reading about it ?

[Crumb]

Trouble is, that was just one club, that at the end of the day not that many attended compared to Wigan, Yate or The Mecca. Would there be enough people interested in reading about it ?

Well I'd buy it.

[Simon M]

It would be a great read .. The main thing about Stafford was the big turnover of sounds Modern and 60's

[Chalky]

Never went to Stafford. I suppose it was the start of my 'lost years'.

Before anybody writes a book, why dont those soul sources who did go send in some posts about why it deserves one and educate us all.

Ed

Your post comes across a tad condescening Did anyone ask all the other authors who felt the need to educate us if their books warranted writing

I for one would love to read about this period in the history of the scene and its undoubted impact and impression it has had on the scene. You only have to look at todays playlists and you will see many records from this era still being played and still having an influence on the dancefloors around the country. It is a major period in the history of Northern Soul and it deserves it's story telling....all IMHO of course

Edited December 16, 2007 by chalky

[Billywhizz]

Why?,be a short read i s`pose

it was good ken, but not brill, to much light coming though the top windows, could.nt concentrate on my spins lol.

Billy

[Guest]

Interesting thought. But my memory is shot would need alot of help.

As someone has said already there is a fair bit to write about and not just the records, people etc. But the times as well, Thatcher, the miners strike, the change in the drug culture, fashion , many that came were out of work at the time.

I'll have a word with Micky Ritson, he might be interested in publishing it.

Trouble is, that was just one club, that at the end of the day not that many attended compared to Wigan, Yate or The Mecca. Would there be enough people interested in reading about it ?

I Would, really enjoyed Stafford Nighters. Its a period that has not been covered like other era's. Maybe all the Nighters around that time (early to mid-80's) should be included. Lot of work though and like you say, would there be enough readers to make it worth while!

[arnie j]

Interesting thought. But my memory is shot would need alot of help.

As someone has said already there is a fair bit to write about and not just the records, people etc. But the times as well, Thatcher, the miners strike, the change in the drug culture, fashion , many that came were out of work at the time.

I'll have a word with Micky Ritson, he might be interested in publishing it.

Trouble is, that was just one club, that at the end of the day not that many attended compared to Wigan, Yate or The Mecca. Would there be enough people interested in reading about it ?

thanks for the reply dave, i think loads of people have bought books about wigan etc but never went, i also think because of the small numbers it has a feeling of mystery about it, lots of recent converts to the scene love to read of its history, ive read books on wigan but never went, also u made a good point about the social aspects of the country at the time, thatcher etc, i would deffo buy a book about stafford top of the world

[Guest in town Mikey]

Never went to Stafford. I suppose it was the start of my 'lost years'.

Before anybody writes a book, why dont those soul sources who did go send in some posts about why it deserves one and educate us all.

Ed

Like writi ng about any club Ed, its difficult to catch the true essense of it.

But I'd be first in the queue for this one

Edited December 16, 2007 by in town Mikey

[Baz Atkinson]

It would be a great idea mainly for the music,cos believe it or not literally hundreds of stuff was covered and the turnover of records was simply phenomenal.As a record collector one thing the british scene lacks is good reference points for crucial parts of the scenes history.Stafford was the precurser for Shotts,Mexboro,Masfield,Chesterfield,and it turned the scene from litterally a joke into a lifelong obssession for many people!

BAZ A

OFF UPSTAIRS TO DIG OUT PADDED CELL!

[arnie j]

oh, and if you ever do write a book bout stafford dave can u credit me on the inside cover for starting this thread off in the first place please ? !just a joke mate

[Simon M]

You could have a section on Dave Thorleys fashion sense

Edited December 16, 2007 by Simon M

[Tony Smith]

Stafford was great,I loved every moment, as influential as the mecca was maybe but let's not get all dewy-eyed and Wigan about it, we don't want to spoil it do we, please!

[Guest]

Stafford was great,I loved every moment, as influential as the mecca was maybe but let's not get all dewy-eyed and Wigan about it, we don't want to spoil it do we, please!

I`m trying me best Tony

[Dave Thorley]

I`m trying me best Tony

As always Ken, you just have the ability to make me smile.

Love you lots.

OK, no promises, but will have a think and a chat with Micky about it. So Chalky, get rooting through all that stuff you've collected all these years, might be ringing you for some help

Arnie, your names already there, if I do it.

Tony, don't worry I've never been one to get to romantic about anything.

[arnie j]

As always Ken, you just have the ability to make me smile.

Love you lots.

OK, no promises, but will have a think and a chat with Micky about it. So Chalky, get rooting through all that stuff you've collected all these years, might be ringing you for some help

Arnie, your names already there, if I do it.

Tony, don't worry I've never been one to get to romantic about anything.

nice one dave, bet u if u did write it it would generate a lot of interest from many people, i was only bout 16 when i started going so was very reluctant to go and ask questions bout the people and tunes etc, there were some very knowlegeable people there who knew their stuff so theres so much i still dont know bout stafford even though i was a regular, also it would be great to know the real story from the man himself

[Wiganer1]

Your post comes across a tad condescening Did anyone ask all the other authors who felt the need to educate us if their books warranted writing

I for one would love to read about this period in the history of the scene and its undoubted impact and impression it has had on the scene. You only have to look at todays playlists and you will see many records from this era still being played and still having an influence on the dancefloors around the country. It is a major period in the history of Northern Soul and it deserves it's story telling....all IMHO of course

========

stafford was an IMMENSE all niter

i only missed a handful all-niters from 84 to the end of that era..-

great memories for me include

being there the 1st night in the bottom room,,then upstairs in the top room with all the mirrors,,,the great nights in the main hall,,,being picked on by tommo in the early days..buying great cheap records,,,,harold melvin at the 1st anniversary..eddie parker and lorraine chandler,,eddie holman all live...

listening to spanish maiden for the 1st time and thinking what the hells this rubbish!!

seeing 'suspicion' being played 6/7 times a nite and ramming the floor each time...

being one of two dancers on the floor when keb 1st played lady lady by the colt 45s

keith minshulls brilliant last hour spots

i could go on and on...great niter whether there were 50 or 500 in!!!!

bring it on!

[Tony Smith]

Tony, don't worry I've never been one to get to romantic about anything.

Don't know Dave, some of those outfits were a bit romantic

[Tony Smith]

being one of two dancers on the floor when keb 1st played lady lady by the colt 45s

Surely Gary Rushbrooke

keith minshulls brilliant last hour spots,

Got to agree with this, even his habit of introducing the record he'd played before last.

whether there were 50 or 500 in!!!!

True

g it on!

[Guest]

I would definately read it.

As someone who was darting from one nighter to the the other every weekend during this period including stafford I was never in the right state of mind to understand its impact and value to the scene until years later.

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

I would definately read it.

As someone who was darting from one nighter to the the other every weekend during this period including stafford I was never in the right state of mind to understand its impact and value to the scene until years later.

I'd buy it as well....so there ya go Dave get scribbling...mind you I would request a signed 1st issue copy.

Baz

[Jumpinjoan]

It would be a great idea mainly for the music,cos believe it or not literally hundreds of stuff was covered and the turnover of records was simply phenomenal.As a record collector one thing the british scene lacks is good reference points for crucial parts of the scenes history.Stafford was the precurser for Shotts,Mexboro,Masfield,Chesterfield,and it turned the scene from litterally a joke into a lifelong obssession for many people!

BAZ A

OFF UPSTAIRS TO DIG OUT PADDED CELL!

You are spot on there Baz.

I never went to Wigan... too young of course ... started going to niters just around the time it closed.

Stafford... and all the ones mentioned above... were the best days ever for me...

... and looking back now... how spoilt were we music wise?

[John Benson]

being one of two dancers on the floor when keb 1st played lady lady by the colt 45s

Surely Gary Rushbrooke

I remember this getting plays at Cleethorpes by Poke - well before Stafford

Mind you it didn't do much at the time as I recall

[Barry]

I think a book that encompassed the NS scene wholly would be a better read - stick to one venue and you get a personal view, nice but not a viable commercial venture for any publishing house.

I'm not knocking the formulative years of the NS scene and the UK clubs responsible for bringing this music to its commercial height, that is, the real ground breakers and the true hub of this scene, you know the venues I'll not bore you.

But when I read these posts it seems that majoritively the venues quoted are from Wigan onward - I may be open to selective reading as we all are on this kind of personal matter- as they are the venues that people attended who are still 'message board active' and able to recount on.

I can't see a whole book being written about Stafford or the Clifton Hall, Oddfellows, Buzzard etc being absorbing to for enough people to purchase, outside but a few (I'd buy one, but I'm one of maybe just a few, commercially).

But, on the flp of that, I see a publication that could possibly encompass the Nighter scene from the late 70's to now, giving playlists, personal accounts and a general musical feel of that particular event, a Winner.

Not only for the NS Scene but if only from a Social History point of view.

[bri phill]

I think a book that encompassed the NS scene wholly would be a better read - stick to one venue and you get a personal view, nice but not a viable commercial venture for any publishing house.

I'm not knocking the formulative years of the NS scene and the UK clubs responsible for bringing this music to its commercial height, that is, the real ground breakers and the true hub of this scene, you know the venues I'll not bore you.

But when I read these posts it seems that majoritively the venues quoted are from Wigan onward - I may be open to selective reading as we all are on this kind of personal matter- as they are the venues that people attended who are still 'message board active' and able to recount on.

I can't see a whole book being written about Stafford or the Clifton Hall, Oddfellows, Buzzard etc being absorbing to for enough people to purchase, outside but a few (I'd buy one, but I'm one of maybe just a few, commercially).

But, on the flp of that, I see a publication that could possibly encompass the Nighter scene from the late 70's to now, giving playlists, personal accounts and a general musical feel of that particular event, a Winner.

Not only for the NS Scene but if only from a Social History point of view.

I thought Mike Ritson was working on the InCrowd 2 covering the scene from this period to present day,I thought the InCrowd was by far the best book about the scene,so if he does as good a job on a follow up I think everyone will be happy. cheers Brian

[Dave Thorley]

I think a book that encompassed the NS scene wholly would be a better read - stick to one venue and you get a personal view, nice but not a viable commercial venture for any publishing house.

I'm not knocking the formulative years of the NS scene and the UK clubs responsible for bringing this music to its commercial height, that is, the real ground breakers and the true hub of this scene, you know the venues I'll not bore you.

But when I read these posts it seems that majoritively the venues quoted are from Wigan onward - I may be open to selective reading as we all are on this kind of personal matter- as they are the venues that people attended who are still 'message board active' and able to recount on.

I can't see a whole book being written about Stafford or the Clifton Hall, Oddfellows, Buzzard etc being absorbing to for enough people to purchase, outside but a few (I'd buy one, but I'm one of maybe just a few, commercially).

But, on the flp of that, I see a publication that could possibly encompass the Nighter scene from the late 70's to now, giving playlists, personal accounts and a general musical feel of that particular event, a Winner.

Not only for the NS Scene but if only from a Social History point of view.

Hi Barry

Know exactly where your coming from, but the question was would I concider writing a book about Stafford and yes I would.

As to one persons veiw point, in the hours since this thread started I have given this very issue some thought. If I was to take on the project, it would be important that it was well researched, just being there isn't enough. That it included many peoples veiws and memories and although it's focus maybe that club, it should be put it context of the time and other clubs before, then and later.

My initial thoughts are that it would cover these main areas. The times (some social comment), the venue (event, history, roots), the DJ's (their stories, views), the records (top five's with detailed histories, record hunting stories, music styles played, artists stories), the people (key faces, fashion, stories related to the crowd).

I think there is more than enough to make it interesting. Also the style of the writing would be important, it should be a book that anyone could pick up and without knowing the codes of the scene, still understand and find compelling.

One subject books can be fascinating, as they allow you to go to a level of detail, that more general tomes cannot do. I love Farrari cars and have books on just one model, people write about single key battles in wars, so it can be done. You will always get those that will have the veiw, why just Stafford, as they didn't go or had a loyalty to another club. But surley that's the point of the book to tell it's story, then time ans sales will tell if has any value.

Dave

[Simon M]

top 5's thats too restrictive Dave , maybe a 1000 stafford with lable scans appendix

Edited December 17, 2007 by Simon M

[Dave Thorley]

top 5's thats too restrictive Dave , maybe a 1000 stafford with lable scans

As this is early days, 5 or 10 records covered in detail, artist history, were they got the record from, cover name and story where applicable is a good starting point. Over the years that it ran, the mainroom alone had more than 15 dj's playing. So that could amount to 150+ records covered in detail plus others would get covered in other parts of the book, if you looked in detail at music styles like, crossover, un-relased Motown, beat ballads, 60's newies, modern, new release etc.

But we are indanger of this becoming a book written by committee and written before it's written. But don't stop putting up comments as they are helpful in my thinking about the project.

[Shsdave]

But we are indanger of this becoming a book written by committee and written before it's written. But don't stop putting up comments as they are helpful in my thinking about the project.

[Wiganer1]

someone mentioned the 2 eras of the top of the world

the 1st year was monthly and attendances were really healthy culmanating in the 1st anniversary packer when Harold Melvin was on...sure searling packed up shortly after but defo remeber chris plant and ady pountain in the main room...

not sure when the decision was to go bi monthly but attendances certainly suffered for a while..

didnt matter to me hoewver - quality whatever the attendance..

[Dave Thorley]

someone mentioned the 2 eras of the top of the world

the 1st year was monthly and attendances were really healthy culmanating in the 1st anniversary packer when Harold Melvin was on...sure searling packed up shortly after but defo remeber chris plant and ady pountain in the main room...

not sure when the decision was to go bi monthly but attendances certainly suffered for a while..

didnt matter to me hoewver - quality whatever the attendance..

It went Bi-weekly. We decided, that is most of the main DJ's, that to break new tunes you needed repetition so fortnighty was agreed. Yes it did sometimes affect numbers, but helped form it's own sound and loyal following. I think that is one reason why we don't have sounds that we attached to venues so much now days, rather they are know by the DJ's that play them.

Interesting question, should there be a regular allniter somewhere ?

Butch recently complained to me about how long it took now days for a new tune to really break, he reckons 2-3 years. Back then a record worked or didn't in a few months.

[Guest Byrney]

I Would, really enjoyed Stafford Nighters. Its a period that has not been covered like other era's. Maybe all the Nighters around that time (early to mid-80's) should be included. Lot of work though and like you say, would there be enough readers to make it worth while!

Do you think there's enough punters out there to make it finacially a goer, seems that most on today's scene are only interested in the era pre 80s.

Me I'd love to see this story told - not just Stafford but the whole era of the 80s which always gets overlooked. How many times you heared the tale that the scene was on its arse until the return to glory around 94.

[Chalky]

It went Bi-weekly. We decided, that is most of the main DJ's, that to break new tunes you needed repetition so fortnighty was agreed. Yes it did sometimes affect numbers, but helped form it's own sound and loyal following. I think that is one reason why we don't have sounds that we attached to venues so much now days, rather they are know by the DJ's that play them.

Interesting question, should there be a regular allniter somewhere ?

Butch recently complained to me about how long it took now days for a new tune to really break, he reckons 2-3 years. Back then a record worked or didn't in a few months.

The scene is so regionalised these days that you really need 5,6 or 7 Dj's to have a record to break it in any decent amount of time. It's practically impossible mto break a record that is na one off.

Regular nighter? would people traverl these days to a bi-monthly nighter? Due to the numbers of nighter goers, around 3 or 400 hardcore, there's not much left over for other nighter promoters. mind you I don't think that would be a bad thing in some cases.

Where would the best place be these days to hold such a nighter

[Dave Thorley]

The scene is so regionalised these days that you really need 5,6 or 7 Dj's to have a record to break it in any decent amount of time. It's practically impossible mto break a record that is na one off.

Regular nighter? would people traverl these days to a bi-monthly nighter? Due to the numbers of nighter goers, around 3 or 400 hardcore, there's not much left over for other nighter promoters. mind you I don't think that would be a bad thing in some cases.

Where would the best place be these days to hold such a nighter

It was just me thinking out loud, no plans. Like you say, don't think it would work nowdays. Also I don't think you could get enough dj's or people to commit, with everything else going on in their lives. That's somthing your happy to do when you are young, but as you get older it gets harder.

[Simon M]

That says something, when a DJ like Butch says its hard to break records on the NS scene

[Chalky]

It was just me thinking out loud, no plans. Like you say, don't think it would work nowdays. Also I don't think you could get enough dj's or people to commit, with everything else going on in their lives. That's somthing your happy to do when you are young, but as you get older it gets harder.

Right venue conditions and policy I think you'd get the DJ's. But the thing with past eras of soul, wigan, stafford etc, the records have been there in quantity waiting to be discovered. Now, could you keep it fresh monthly let alone every other week.

Edited December 17, 2007 by chalky

[Guest posstot]

I DIDNT GO TO THE WHEEL, THE TORCH, WIGAN, OR STAFFORD....I MISSED THE BOAT COMPLETELY..AT LEAST I WASNT TALL ENOUGH TO GO ON THE RIDES,BORN IN 68...YET THESE ARE THE 4 VENUES I HEAR TALKED ABOUT THE MOST. THE MOST NOTED.

OUT OF THE FOUR, TO MY MUSIC TASTES, AND ITS INFLUENCES ON THE SCENES PLAYLIST AS A WHOLE IT HAS TO BE, STAFFORD.

IN TURN I WOULD LOVE TO READ ANY PUBLICATION ON THE VENUE, WHY IT "BECAME" HOW IT EVOLVED, WHO STARTED IT AND WHY...I THINK THE MUSIC POLICY THERE EXPLAINS TO A LARGE EXTENT(FROM WHAT I AM TOLD AND WHAT LITTLE LITERATURE I HAVE READ THAT IS OUT THERE)WHY THE VENUE WAS STARTED. WE HEAR THE SAME OLD WRANGLINGS TODAY....LISTENNING TO THE SAME OLD SAME OLDS, WHEN THERE ARE SOOOOO MANY GOOD TRACKS OUT THERE NOT BEING PLAYED....AND IN MY OPINION A SERIOUSLY VALID POINT TODAY.

I HAD KNOWN THE USUAL SUSPECTS, MUSICALLY, SINCE I WAS 10-11 YEARS OLD NIGHT OWL PARIS BLUES EVER AGAIN SWEET THING THE DUCK PHILLY DOG, BEING A YOUNG MOD BACK IN THE EARLY EIGHTIES INFLUENCED BY WIGAN CASINO AND PAUL WELLER,THE ACTION AND SMALL FACES ETC...ALSO MY BROTHERS AND THERE MATES BEING EITHER MODS SOULIES SCOOTER BOYS OR ROCKERS...THEY WERE THE DAYS...IT LEFT ITS MARK, BUT NOTHING MORE SO THAN NORTHERN SOUL....SO IF IT WASNT FOR THE AFORE MENTIONED CLUBS I WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A BIAS TOWARD STAFFORD, BECAUSE OF WHAT CAME BEFORE.

HOWEVER, WITH STAFFORD THE MUSIC IT PROMOTED, INCLUDING THE MID TEMPO, AND THE INTRODUCTION OF SO CALLED POPCORN/BELGIUM SOUND.( SAM FLETCHER, TOMMY NAVARO, HARVEY,JOAN BAKER ETC ETC) OPENED UP A WHOLE VIRTUALLY NEW GENRE TO THE "NORTHERN SOUL" SCENE.

AND I FOR ONE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THE BACKGROUND ON ALL OF THAT....SO WRITE THE SODDING BOOK..

LETS NOT ALL FORGET THAT WOTHOUT THE MUSIC,THE ARTISTS,PRODUCERS AND ARRANGERS NONE OF US WOULD BE HERE CLAIMING WHAT VENUE WAS BEST FOR WHAT REASON, WE COULD ALL OF ENDED UP AT RUEBENS ON A SATDY NEET MON.

MIKE.