Too Many Events Clashing

[martynthejazz]

Hi After Reading The HEYWOOD Thread, In the Early Days There Were More Of Us, And Still Lots Of Events Around, YET Most Were Pretty Full. You Would Think With This Type Of Site, Fourum , And The Web , etc.. People Could Sort It Out Better. ( is that the right word ) maybe not ?? But There Just Ain,nt That Many Of Us Left.. ha. There is,nt really a good answer.. EVEN the weekenders are down on no,s now too... too much choice ?? oir what ?? um. Think this will roll on. while some venues open up, some will close, which is a shame, when Some people do it for the love of it, AND, Not the cash, martyn

[Dave Rimmer]

Hi After Reading The HEYWOOD Thread, In the Early Days There Were More Of Us, And Still Lots Of Events Around, YET Most Were Pretty Full. You Would Think With This Type Of Site, Fourum , And The Web , etc.. People Could Sort It Out Better. ( is that the right word ) maybe not ?? But There Just Ain,nt That Many Of Us Left.. ha. There is,nt really a good answer.. EVEN the weekenders are down on no,s now too... too much choice ?? oir what ?? um. Think this will roll on. while some venues open up, some will close, which is a shame, when Some people do it for the love of it, AND, Not the cash, martyn

Which weekenders are down on numbers ? Hamburg was rammed in October, Nuremburg was the busiest I've ever been to last weekend, Cleethorpes sells out every year, and Prestatyn gets 3,500 people. I wouldn't disagree with you about niters and soul nights being down on numbers, but you must be going to the wrong weekenders

[Guest stash313]

From a Modern persuasion The Hilton sells out every January and May brings well over a 1000 together in Birmingham.

Frankfurt was rammed in May when I played over there and the same last month.

Agree with Dave you need a different weekender schedule! :-)

[Dave Rimmer]

From a Modern persuasion The Hilton sells out every January and May brings well over a 1000 together in Birmingham.

Frankfurt was rammed in May when I played over there and the same last month.

Agree with Dave you need a different weekender schedule! :-)

I see you didn't mention the football

[Guest stash313]

You know my old man's originally from Horwich, I'm refusing to go back for a while!

Blackburn on saturday!

[Guest Soultown andy]

Numbers are,nt down at any of the good venues,to many venues that dont deliver.

[Tabs]

Numbers are,nt down at any of the good venues,to many venues that dont deliver.

Too many events for too few punters but been said many times the best will survive.

[Guest Bearsy]

Too many events for too few punters but been said many times the best will survive.

too right Tabs

and how about every event to run bi-monthly could be a bit of a solution,

[Guest Soultown andy]

Dont agree tabs, there are plenty of punters that will travel the length and breadth of the country to venues that deliver. Look at burnley and thats on a fri ,we are always busy at middleton and half our crowd is from down south.The crowd is there its the venues that just arent that good.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Soultown andy

[Guest kent soul club]

Just last night I booked all the dates for KSC for next year, and Feb 2009. It is difficult not to clash with something. The four regular soul nights in Kent/South London do a pretty good job of not clashing, and we all support each others events pretty well. I know I had a good look at the events listings before my meeting with our venue owner, and it was obvious we were going to clash with certain events, but the best we can do is make an effort not to clash with the nearest events to us, and to get the dates advertised as early as possible. As others have said, the best events will survive, and also the ones who try and support one another.

Magoo

[Tabs]

Dont agree tabs, there are plenty of punters that will travel the length and breadth of the country to venues that deliver. Look at burnley and thats on a fri we are always full and half our crowd is from down south.The crowd is there its the venues that just arent that good.

So if Burnley, Middleton, 100 club, etc were all on the same night do you honestly think you would get the same amount in.

Really don't think so.

Interesting point is that its the nighters that 'generally' seem to do OK.

Soul nights / mini nighters seem to suffer.

Cheers

[Guest Soultown andy]

At some stage we have clashed with every venue you can think of numbers are always the same,maybe we are just lucky .

[Tabs]

At some stage we have clashed with every venue you can think of numbers are always the same,maybe we are just lucky .

You may be lucky but as I said quality will prevail.

Must get up to Burnley next year.

I'm at Middleton 29th so come and have a chat / beer.

Not sure how we will know each other but the noise from the SSLAAS will point you in the right direction

Cheers

Tabs

[Guest Soultown andy]

your on .

[Tabs]

your on .

Great, look for the girls with the SSLAAS badge on and they will point me out.

Failing that I'm the one giving Jo from Belfast piggy backs

[Mace]

At some stage we have clashed with every venue you can think of numbers are always the same,maybe we are just lucky .

To be honest though Andy, besides the fact that you get on well with the promoters of the likes of Kings Hall Stoke or Prestatyn, I doubt you would risk clashing with either of these events cus it would have an impact on your attendance.

You have a great venue and promotion at Middleton, but smaller events that are close to your venue will undoubtably suffer if they clash with you.

To say that these venues aren't good enough or don't deliver ain't really a fair comment, they might not be able to compete with your venue or line-up, but when stood on there own merits may well be quality events.

Clashing never helps anyone, but it happens and there will always be winners and losers.

Totally agree that it's mainly soul nights that seem to be suffering.

Then again you don't get as many travellers to soul nights, and lots of those who returned to the scene a few years back after 20 years absence seem to be dwindling away again imo.

Don't see that as a bad thing to be honest, smaller clubs will hopefully flourish and the music will probably start to progress at a decent rate again instead of being the same old tunes churned out week in week out.

[Andyd68]

This is an old hat,

But you got to understand that the scene is split into rare music venues that people travel for the music ie Burnley,lifeline,DDA ect.Then we have the social scene where people like a drink meet up with their friends and their music needs to be know to them and there is loads of these about in the north some just a few miles apart.All these venues when you speak to the hosts have good reasons for there dates and venues.However there is very few that are willing to travel these days same faces that do,I m trying to go to Amlwch Sat and I live in Yorkshire so will prob past 15 dos on route which is mad really.

I m knacked so if this seems not to make sense well good night,

Andy

[Jumpinjoan]

This is an old hat,

But you got to understand that the scene is split into rare music venues that people travel for the music ie Burnley,lifeline,DDA ect.Then we have the social scene where people like a drink meet up with their friends and their music needs to be know to them and there is loads of these about in the north some just a few miles apart.All these venues when you speak to the hosts have good reasons for there dates and venues.However there is very few that are willing to travel these days same faces that do,I m trying to go to Amlwch Sat and I live in Yorkshire so will prob past 15 dos on route which is mad really.

I m knacked so if this seems not to make sense well good night,

Andy

You may well be mad... but not as mad as Amlwch!

You will have fun... I promise

[Rbman]

To say that these venues aren't good enough or don't deliver ain't really a fair comment, they might not be able to compete with your venue or line-up, but when stood on there own merits may well be quality events.

Totally agree that it's mainly soul nights that seem to be suffering.

I've been to plenty of "well attended events" that fail to deliver and many less well attended event that do so far as rare soul goes. Cream always rises to the top.

[Guest nusha]

Too many events for too few punters but been said many times the best will survive.

Yes thats true,.but numbers are down at small gigs yet there seem to be many more on the horizon.Much of it comes about when guys with good collections can get employed at there local gig and set up a rival.Fair enough but it can produce friction regionally.There will be much financial blood on the carpet this year.Cream does eventually rise to the top.

[Guest Soultown andy]

If i didnt know better mace id think the reference to stoke and prestatyn were dig of some kind,but surely not m8 .My opinions are based on going to venues as a paying customer every week of the year and a lot dont deliver,in the last month ive attended venues that have advertised themselves on here on an hourly basis promiseing the great this the best that only to find empty venues wth totaly uninspired playlists.Then you read read the talk back write ups and magicaly these nites have been packers with outststanding music,time to stop misleading people.So my opinions are nothing to do with who i do or dont know and as for not clashing with them is it my fault im not stupid.Burnley is on the 28th dec we are on the 29th both will be packed,a month ago king georges blackburn was on the same nite as us 20 mins down the road they had 1800 in we had 500 plus as usual the people are there if the event is good enough. And as regards hurting small events numbers we offer any club in our area that is on the same nite reduced admission, and the fact is most benifit as travellers from all parts of the country use these clubs as a warm up when normaly they wouldnt travel 200 miles for a soul nite.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Soultown andy

[Jumpinjoan]

Soul night's had much more of a chance of doing well when all nighters were exactly that... all nighters.

And by that I mean when they used to start at midnight.

These days... by starting earlier... 8pm or whatever... all nighter's are now both soul nite and niter... a bit unfair imo.

No doubt some will say it's just business... and that all they are doing is offering a service to punters... and that punters are free to go to other early do's if they so wish.

But how many people are willing... or able... to pay to get into two venues when they can just pay the once?

Like I said... it's all a business now... and as with all business's... the small get pushed out.

Call me an old fuddy duddy if you wish... but this is one example of when it definitely was better in the good old days... when soul music wasn't looked on as 'business'

[Guest]

Soul night's had much more of a chance of doing well when all nighters were exactly that... all nighters.

And by that I mean when they used to start at midnight.

These days... by starting earlier... 8pm or whatever... all nighter's are now both soul nite and niter... a bit unfair imo.

No doubt some will say it's just business... and that all they are doing is offering a service to punters... and that punters are free to go to other early do's if they so wish.

But how many people are willing... or able... to pay to get into two venues when they can just pay the once?

Like I said... it's all a business now... and as with all business's... the small get pushed out.

Call me an old fuddy duddy if you wish... but this is one example of when it definitely was better in the good old days... when soul music wasn't looked on as 'business'

Spot on Joan..........I would also add , Too many collectors thinking they can DJ......most cannot! and its sometimes

embarressing and puts people off going again.

Too many CRAP DJ`s

And the smoking ban is "choking" the scene somewhat (pardon the pun )

[Mace]

If i didnt know better mace id think the reference to stoke and prestatyn were dig of some kind,but surely not m8 .My opinions are based on going to venues as a paying customer every week of the year and a lot dont deliver,in the last month ive attended venues that have advertised themselves on here on an hourly basis promiseing the great this the best that only to find empty venues wth totaly uninspired playlists.Then you read read the talk back write ups and magicaly these nites have been packers with outststanding music,time to stop misleading people.So my opinions are nothing to do with who i do or dont know and as for not clashing with them is it my fault im not stupid.Burnley is on the 28th dec we are on the 29th both will be packed,a month ago king georges blackburn was on the same nite as us 20 mins down the road they had 1800 in we had 500 plus as usual the people are there if the event is good enough. And as regards hurting small events numbers we offer any club in our area that is on the same nite reduced admission, and the fact is most benifit as travellers from all parts of the country use these clubs as a warm up when normaly they wouldnt travel 200 miles for a soul nite.

Not a dig at all Andy....thought I was the paranoid one

Middleton is one of the busier regular allnighters on the circuit, and I used Kings Hall and Prestatyn as references cus they are obviously bigger and busier....again not a dig of any kind.

My point was, that you said you had clashed with every venue going and still kept your numbers.

My comparison is therefore based on the 'scenario' of what would happen if you clashed with either Kings Hall or Prestatyn...regardless of the fact that you are on good terms with the relative promoters of both events or whether you would be daft enough to clash with them.

In that sense the smaller events that have clashed with you would suffer in the same way....and I didn't blame you for the effect of such.

I know you have offered reduced admission for people attending local events that have clashed with you, and at the end of the day the promoters of such events should consider the effect of clashing with bigger and more popular events before deciding to go ahead with the event....make your bed and all that.....

However, with all the will in the world these clashes happen, sometimes accidentally, sometimes mischeviously, but the end results of such clashes are not (imo) fair evaluations of those events in regards to venues, DJs etc etc.

As for threads pushing events on here, yes I agree, there is plenty of 'false' hype about venues and lots don't deliver what they promise, feedbacks can be misleading....part and parcel of promoting any product I suppose...and plenty of the big successful events are as guilty of it as anyone else.....not another dig at you either

[chrissie]

Not sure how we will know each other but the noise from the SSLAAS will point you in the right direction

Cheers

Tabs

You should be able to spot each other ok, you will be the two vertically challenged bald blokes in the room. Don't stand too close together people may start putting books in between you

QoFxx

Edited December 13, 2007 by chrissie

[Mace]

Soul night's had much more of a chance of doing well when all nighters were exactly that... all nighters.

And by that I mean when they used to start at midnight.

These days... by starting earlier... 8pm or whatever... all nighter's are now both soul nite and niter... a bit unfair imo.

No doubt some will say it's just business... and that all they are doing is offering a service to punters... and that punters are free to go to other early do's if they so wish.

But how many people are willing... or able... to pay to get into two venues when they can just pay the once?

Like I said... it's all a business now... and as with all business's... the small get pushed out.

Call me an old fuddy duddy if you wish... but this is one example of when it definitely was better in the good old days... when soul music wasn't looked on as 'business'

True, but since licensing hours changed some soul nights now go on till 3.00 a.m. etc so who would travel to an allnighter afterwards?

[Guest outonthefloor]

[ and the fact is most benifit as travellers from all parts of the country use these clubs as a warm up when normaly they wouldnt travel 200 miles for a soul nite.

[Little-stevie]

Very true about Feedback...How can a person judge an event sometimes if there is just feedback sucking each others co"ks/....Its got to be constuctive maybe but who is to judge what constructive/bitching/tampering etc is... ...

The topic will come back and back again for sure about overkill...How many djs/promoters now and thats just on soul source???? and how many punters??? tooo much going on and dirty tricks a plenty to come from some PROMOTERS ..

[Jumpinjoan]

True, but since licensing hours changed some soul nights now go on till 3.00 a.m. etc so who would travel to an allnighter afterwards?

You have a point sir... hadn't really considered the licensing hours.

Then again... with all nighters that used to start around midnight now starting as early as 8pm... I would imagine your smaller, early do's will have had to do something like that to stand a chance of competing against the said larger venues?

I know I'm probably in the minority who thinks this... but if all nighters were to go back to starting at midnight... wouldn't that give the promoters of your local soul night a better chance of success?

[Mace]

You have a point sir... hadn't really considered the licensing hours.

Then again... with all nighters that used to start around midnight now starting as early as 8pm... I would imagine your smaller, early do's will have had to do something like that to stand a chance of competing against the said larger venues?

I know I'm probably in the minority who thinks this... but if all nighters were to go back to starting at midnight... wouldn't that give the promoters of your local soul night a better chance of success?

If the promoters of said soul nights agreed to shut shop at 1.00 a.m. latest then I'd say everybody would be a winner....but it'll never happen will it .

Also, its very difficult to get an allnighter at a decent venue as it is, to only want to book from midnight onwards has an impact on the venues business in respect of staffing hours/bar takings/room hire fee etc

Edited December 13, 2007 by Mace

[Jumpinjoan]

If the promoters of said soul nights agreed to shut shop at 1.00 a.m. latest then I'd say everybody would be a winner....but it'll never happen will it .

Also, its very difficult to get an allnighter at a decent venue as it is, to only want to book from midnight onwards has an impact on the venues business in respect of staffing hours/bar takings/room hire fee etc

What do I know anyway...

You boys knock yourselves out

[Len]

Yes thats true,.but numbers are down at small gigs. There will be much financial blood on the carpet this year.Cream does eventually rise to the top.

I wish it were true about 'quality will shine through'...But the really sad thing is, the scene is so splintered / localised that quality may 'not' shine through (These are just the events that are suffering)... See you all in ten years time!

Len.

[Shsdave]

Very true about Feedback...How can a person judge an event sometimes if there is just feedback sucking each others co"ks/....Its got to be constuctive maybe but who is to judge what constructive/bitching/tampering etc is... ...

Feedback ? Hmm How many times have you been to an event & read the feedback the following week from promoters &/or their friends & wonder to yourself whether you actually attended this night where the floor was packed all night long, buzzing atmosphere with an up for it crowd etc etc etc ...................

[Mace]

What do I know anyway...

You boys knock yourselves out

Oh you give up too easily......

[Guest]

As for threads pushing events on here, yes I agree, there is plenty of 'false' hype about venues and lots don't deliver what they promise, feedbacks can be misleading....part and parcel of promoting any product I suppose...and plenty of the big successful events are as guilty of it as anyone else.....not another dig at you either

Hi Mace,

yes but as everyone's expectations are different, one person could give a genuine glowing review whilst the guy next to him had sat bored all night, suppose the only way is ignore all feedback and actually go yourself. Word of mouth is deffo by far the best promotion.

Venue's dying off isn't all about not delivering though. There are many venues in our area having to look twice at their promotion because of Middleton, not just those on the same night. This contributes to the appearance that too many events are clashing, the scene's dying, venue's are quiet, etc.

Many have worked well and pulled decent crowds in for years but maybe you could say Middleton have raised the bar or approached their promotion differently. (Kev Roberts made reference to something similar didn't he in a recent post about it being a breath of fresh air) Middleton have more residents than most events I can think of, this creates a lot of affection for the event and a lot of positive word of mouth promotion. It makes people feel more involved in the event and they're more likely to support it. People want to be more involved, share their music more and not just told what's the next big thing by the same half a dozen 'big' DJ's.

Many promotors do what they do in a way that has been succesful for a good few years, they're not guilty of not delivering, maybe just not keeping up with changes in what the crowd want. Maybe doing what you've always done, however successful you've been just isn't good enough anymore... maybe people have come to expect to see certain venues full that just aren't anymore as the scene evolves and hence comments on too many venues etc.

Andy, dont underestimate you're success.lol

Jayne.x.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Miss BurySoul

[Guest]

oops - having re-read the above post, it's not a big suck up to the Middleton team - I dont really do allniters and dont tend to go to Middleton - it's just genuine feedback from around the area..

Jayne.x.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Miss BurySoul

[Mace]

Hi Mace,

yes but as everyone's expectations are different, one person could give a genuine glowing review whilst the guy next to him had sat bored all night, suppose the only way is ignore all feedback and actually go yourself. Word of mouth is deffo by far the best promotion.

Jayne.x.

Totally agree Jayne, but my reference to 'hype' wasn't just about peoples expectations of a good night or reviews of the event via feedback.

It's about the promoter delivering what they advertise (as in DJs/artists/rooms/venue times etc), and if you can't deliver (for whatever reason, and there are lots of valid reasons) then at least let the paying public know in advance if possible.

Again, not specific to any venue....but some of the big successfull venues can be as guilty of this as the smaller less successfull venues are of hyping themselves up with 'mates reviews' etc......all misleading IMO.

[Guest]

Totally agree Jayne, but my reference to 'hype' wasn't just about peoples expectations of a good night or reviews of the event via feedback.

It's about the promoter delivering what they advertise (as in DJs/artists/rooms/venue times etc), and if you can't deliver (for whatever reason, and there are lots of valid reasons) then at least let the paying public know in advance if possible.

Again, not specific to any venue....but some of the big successfull venues can be as guilty of this as the smaller less successfull venues are of hyping themselves up with 'mates reviews' etc......all misleading IMO.

promoters delivering what they advertise?... now you're being boring! , yeh good point. I've taken the piss out of several people for doing just that, it used to really wind me up and made me more grateful personally, when we received genuine good feedback..

'mates reviews'??.. I never thought of that, but hey if you're up for it? LOL ah, damn, wouldn't work for us - we're on the same night (unless we can be in two places at once)! nah, seriously I'd only do a good review for a mate if I enjoyied it. Dont see the point in telling anyone something wwas good when it wasn't..

Jayne.x.

[Little-stevie]

Totally agree Jayne, but my reference to 'hype' wasn't just about peoples expectations of a good night or reviews of the event via feedback.

It's about the promoter delivering what they advertise (as in DJs/artists/rooms/venue times etc), and if you can't deliver (for whatever reason, and there are lots of valid reasons) then at least let the paying public know in advance if possible.

Again, not specific to any venue....but some of the big successfull venues can be as guilty of this as the smaller less successfull venues are of hyping themselves up with 'mates reviews' etc......all misleading IMO.

Good points Mace

I am glad i did not listen to what others have to say about you ..I can see that you have at least one o'level:lol:(domestic science)...

Edited December 13, 2007 by little-stevie

[Dave]

Numbers are,nt down at any of the good venues,to many venues that dont deliver.

There are too many venues that don't deliver, but that's not the end of the story.

There are a good few soul events that have been delivering for years, but are now suffering varying numbers because some hero who wants to DJ decided to copy what they are doing.

My "home" town had three n.s. clubs, each doing about four nights a year and enjoying good turnouts because they did it well and folks made the effort to attend the dozen or so nights per year. Cue a couple of wannabes starting a monthly night in the same town, offering nothing different, and they all suffer because the punters that want to go once a month, and there are a lot of those, like it or not, now have twice the events to choose from!

The east midlands is even worse: Look at the number of events on every weekend, then look at the numbers at the last few Trent/Boat club nights.. the best soul night in the area. Often promoters justify clashing because they "offer something different", when the truth is they'd sooner play their own records to 30 people than go with those 30 to hear the guys with the real collections!

As has been said, feedback on here can be misleading. At the beginning of the month I went to a well repected all-nighter and had a great time because of the people and the atmosphere, but the music was up and down. Monday comes, and it's acclaimed as the "best rare soul event" by folks who seldom go anywhere else, but you know if you post the contrary view, you'll be shot down in flames.

[KevH]

There are too many venues that don't deliver, but that's not the end of the story.

There are a good few soul events that have been delivering for years, but are now suffering varying numbers because some hero who wants to DJ decided to copy what they are doing.

My "home" town had three n.s. clubs, each doing about four nights a year and enjoying good turnouts because they did it well and folks made the effort to attend the dozen or so nights per year. Cue a couple of wannabes starting a monthly night in the same town, offering nothing different, and they all suffer because the punters that want to go once a month, and there are a lot of those, like it or not, now have twice the events to choose from!

The east midlands is even worse: Look at the number of events on every weekend, then look at the numbers at the last few Trent/Boat club nights.. the best soul night in the area. Often promoters justify clashing because they "offer something different", when the truth is they'd sooner play their own records to 30 people than go with those 30 to hear the guys with the real collections!

As has been said, feedback on here can be misleading. At the beginning of the month I went to a well repected all-nighter and had a great time because of the people and the atmosphere, but the music was up and down. Monday comes, and it's acclaimed as the "best rare soul event" by folks who seldom go anywhere else, but you know if you post the contrary view, you'll be shot down in flames.

hi Dave you dont like the East Midlands do you? .Ok,here's a list from about 2 weeks ago from EVENTS.A thread was started titled "32 EVENTS ON THIS SATURDAY",and someone had posted saying the Midlands was to blame.Here's the list from around the globe....

YORKS-5

LANCS-3

NOTTS-2 (?)

BIRM AREA -2+ 1 A/NITER

LONDON AREA -5

KIDDERMINSTER -1

SCARBORO-2

LINCS -1 (your area Dave)

STAFFS -1

CHESHIRE-1

WESTON-S-MARE -1

DERBYS-3(1 Charity)

FRANKFURT -1

PISA-1

WALES -1

Pretty much a good spread.Just an example.

Not sure wether you like,copying,nothing different,or something different when it comes to a formula for a soul nite?

Now your fave subject Dave.The closure of the Union.( not the Trent club Dave).

As you rightly say ,best venue in the area.

You seem to have a healthy interest in goings on in this area.Not enough happening in Lincs to get passionate about?

Got a club in mind Dave when you refer to,"promoters justifying clashing by offering something different,playing their own records(as opposed to who's?)to 30 people instead of going to hear the guys with "real" collections"?.What's a real collection?

Are you implying (not for the first time),that a small venue not to far away was the reason the Union shut? Suggest you speak to Mick H about this?.If you went to the last couple why do you think it closed?

As for feedbacks,i guess you means LOOKBACKS?.Don't worry about what you put,so long as you've been to the venue and its constructive critism.That way how can you be shot down in flames?

Merry Christmas Dave................

[Dave]

hi Dave you dont like the East Midlands do you? .Ok,here's a list from about 2 weeks ago from EVENTS.A thread was started titled "32 EVENTS ON THIS SATURDAY",and someone had posted saying the Midlands was to blame.Here's the list from around the globe....

YORKS-5

LANCS-3

NOTTS-2 (?)

BIRM AREA -2+ 1 A/NITER

LONDON AREA -5

KIDDERMINSTER -1

SCARBORO-2

LINCS -1 (your area Dave)

STAFFS -1

CHESHIRE-1

WESTON-S-MARE -1

DERBYS-3(1 Charity)

FRANKFURT -1

PISA-1

WALES -1

Pretty much a good spread.Just an example.

Not sure wether you like,copying,nothing different,or something different when it comes to a formula for a soul nite?

Now your fave subject Dave.The closure of the Union.( not the Trent club Dave).

As you rightly say ,best venue in the area.

You seem to have a healthy interest in goings on in this area.Not enough happening in Lincs to get passionate about?

Got a club in mind Dave when you refer to,"promoters justifying clashing by offering something different,playing their own records(as opposed to who's?)to 30 people instead of going to hear the guys with "real" collections"?.What's a real collection?

Are you implying (not for the first time),that a small venue not to far away was the reason the Union shut? Suggest you speak to Mick H about this?.If you went to the last couple why do you think it closed?

As for feedbacks,i guess you means LOOKBACKS?.Don't worry about what you put,so long as you've been to the venue and its constructive critism.That way how can you be shot down in flames?

Merry Christmas Dave................

Now then Kev.

Yes I do like the east midlands actually, that's the area I'd say s Lincs is in. So in that list you've made I'd say that appears to be six e mids events, plus any that weren't promoted on here of course.

Why would you be sure what I like as a formula for a soul night? And why would you want to know? Anyway, seeing as you do want to know, it might help you decide if I tell you that in recent weeks I have been to nighters at Lifeline, St Ives, The Fox and 100 club, an R&B do, Ad-Lib, and last week, by way of a change, the Railway in Peterborough for a great oldies night... don't think that's very formulaic really.

What makes you think that's my "fave" subject? If I post about it, it's my "fave" subject, is it?

As for Lincs, there's plenty of events but I don't go to many in this county. If I have passion, it's for the music and the scene in general.

No particular club in mind Kev... there's lots of new ones sprung up in the last couple of years, many contributing to the current malaise.

Don't really get your "opposed to who's" question, but what I mean by real collections is the guys with exciting rare records, like Kitch, Butch, Mick etc., (I could l list more if it's not clear yet), as opposed to those of us who have collections with rare/seldom heard records that are mediocre to good but not in the same class. Just my opinion, obviously.

I'm not implying any one event caused the Union, or any other particular individual venue, to close but I say again that each new night is bound to spread punters more thinly and therefore contribute to dwindling attendances.

You guess wrong Kev. I know there is a section on here entitled Lookbacks, but if a post contains opinions on a venue/the scene generally, are those opinions not feedback?

Finally thanks for the advice re criticism. If I comment on an event, I do try to make it constructive. And to be honest, I ain't that worried if I am shot down in flames

Merry Christmas to you too.. when the time comes.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Dave

[Len]

Now your fave subject Dave.The closure of the Union.( not the Trent club Dave).

As you rightly say ,best venue in the area.

[Guest]

ps - Maybe it will all level out soon...Christ there might be one weekend in the year where an event isn't on and we all have to actually do something else!!!

God forbid!... I dont remember a weekend like that in at least the last 10 year!..

ooh.. imagine that!.

Jayne.x.

[Len]

God forbid!... I dont remember a weekend like that in at least the last 10 year!..

ooh.. imagine that!.

Jayne.x.

Yes! - Imagine that - It would be really healthy. People may even start enjoying themselves again, instead of analysing everything far too much!

Len.

ps - A bit like we are now... (Again! lol)

[spot]

Numbers are,nt down at any of the good venues,to many venues that dont deliver.

You couldn't resist, could you mate??? Next up you'll be telling us how busy Middleton ALWAYS is, bugger there I go putting ideas into your head Andy, what am I like??

Anyway people "ENOUGH" , on to many & clashing venues, it's making my ears bleed, it's a fact of life that MOST progressive venues are poorly attended & most Oldies are rammed full but if that's the choice of the masses,then who are we to argue & as for clashing, well there's only so many Fridays & Saturdays in the year, so someones going to clash with someone elses venue eventually & as a lot of us travel then that will affect one or the other.And I don't believe trying co-ordinating it on here will make it any better, do you?

So lets put this Mother to bed shall we, for once & for all? Just get on with it & remember Xmas is just around the corner, now then there'll be some clashing venues then,eh??

Take care & be safe, Merry Xmas,

Spot & Gail.

[Guest]

Yes! - Imagine that - It would be really healthy. People may even start enjoying themselves again, instead of analysing everything far too much!

Len.

ps - A bit like we are now... (Again! lol)

How odd - you'll be telling us that there is life outside the northern soul scene next!... and suggesting that saturday & sunday afternoons could be better spent than being in bed asleep before and after nites out!.

Jayne.x.

[Guest]

You couldn't resist, could you mate??? Next up you'll be telling us how busy Middleton ALWAYS is, bugger there I go putting ideas into your head Andy, what am I like??

Anyway people "ENOUGH" , on to many & clashing venues, it's making my ears bleed, it's a fact of life that MOST progressive venues are poorly attended & most Oldies are rammed full but if that's the choice of the masses,then who are we to argue & as for clashing, well there's only so many Fridays & Saturdays in the year, so someones going to clash with someone elses venue eventually & as a lot of us travel then that will affect one or the other.And I don't believe trying co-ordinating it on here will make it any better, do you?

So lets put this Mother to bed shall we, for once & for all? Just get on with it & remember Xmas is just around the corner, now then there'll be some clashing venues then,eh??

Take care & be safe, Merry Xmas,

Spot & Gail.

Agreed - you got a deal from me. I shall concentrate my efforts on having a good night at Lowton tonight instead & getting ready for Bury next week. I do think it helps though - trying to co-ordinate events on here and I dont believe it'll be put to bed - EVER!,

but I like your sentiments so I'll be quiet now!.

Jayne.x.

[KevH]

Now then Kev.

Yes I do like the east midlands actually, that's the area I'd say s Lincs is in. So in that list you've made I'd say that appears to be six e mids events, plus any that weren't promoted on here of course.

Why would you be sure what I like as a formula for a soul night? And why would you want to know? Anyway, seeing as you do want to know, it might help you decide if I tell you that in recent weeks I have been to nighters at Lifeline, St Ives, The Fox and 100 club, an R&B do, Ad-Lib, and last week, by way of a change, the Railway in Peterborough for a great oldies night... don't think that's very formulaic really.

What makes you think that's my "fave" subject? If I post about it, it's my "fave" subject, is it?

As for Lincs, there's plenty of events but I don't go to many in this county. If I have passion, it's for the music and the scene in general.

No particular club in mind Kev... there's lots of new ones sprung up in the last couple of years, many contributing to the current malaise.

Don't really get your "opposed to who's" question, but what I mean by real collections is the guys with exciting rare records, like Kitch, Butch, Mick etc., (I could l list more if it's not clear yet), as opposed to those of us who have collections with rare/seldom heard records that are mediocre to good but not in the same class. Just my opinion, obviously.

I'm not implying any one event caused the Union, or any other particular individual venue, to close but I say again that each new night is bound to spread punters more thinly and therefore contribute to dwindling attendances.

You guess wrong Kev. I know there is a section on here entitled Lookbacks, but if a post contains opinions on a venue/the scene generally, are those opinions not feedback?

Finally thanks for the advice re criticism. If I comment on an event, I do try to make it constructive. And to be honest, I ain't that worried if I am shot down in flames

Merry Christmas to you too.. when the time comes.

me heads hurtin now.Whatever you say Dave. .

Didn't understand which formula suited re; your first post.I don't need to know,but you bought up the subject of "copying,nothing different,something different".

"Fave subject",you've mentioned this before in OVERKILL thread,same context.Local clubs helping in demise of the Union.

Agree with you about exciting dj's,but not everyone can be in their category, and therefore have real collections as you put it.Some lower league guys have to work harder to find a bit of quality,a hidden gem.Is the answer is to stop collecting/playing tunes until they're of a certain quality/rareity/price?.Just a thought.

Dave ,never did i think you'd be worried about being shot down in flames.

Gonna agree with Spot's post, and to mis-quote Vic and Bob," i will let it lie".

See you at DKOF ON 22ND,or LIFELINE in FEB??.That beer's STILL on offer.

Edited December 14, 2007 by KevH

[Guest Soultown andy]

Think we will agree to disagree then mace,my opinions are my own and not anyone elses connected to middleton.Threads raised a few interesting points though,i hope steve is going to let us know which promoters are going to be doing the dirty tricks.As for the buisness side of the scene i only know 2 promoters who run there venues as a buisness ,one is very good at it does well but gets slagged off for everything he does, the other doesnt every other promoter i know does it because they want to.Thanks spot very subtle m8[how much do i owe you] .