When Wigan Died

[Zed1]

Sorry, it may be a bit selfish of me, but I can't understand anyone slagging down the Casino

It's all part of that uniquely British disease of knocking anything thats a success..

And sadly there are lots of terminal cases on the scene.........

[Northern Soul Uk]

And sadly there are lots of terminal cases on the scene.........

[Barry]

I wondered when this one would be trotted out, now Barry is more than capable about sticking up for himself but unlike many others here he is probably too decent and more than a little modest. I think you need to do a little more research about the scene and people before you spout stuff like that. I think you will find that Barry would be considered one of the most forward thinking people among almost all of us on here. I think, and dont want to speak for Barry, all he was doing was respecting the past that allows him to live in the present and look to the future, accuse me of stealing from Aristotle or some such like philosopher with my phraseology!

And here I would suggest is the crux of the matter, what an absolutely ridiculous statement, Barry wore his heart on his sleeve on this one, most of the rest of us just pissed ourself laughing at your arrogance. Of course we could re-translate this as you went to all nighters for a couple of years before you got bored and then had a 30 YEAR break! Hardly the form to pass judgement on everything that went on in your absence is it. Yes you are right this is a forum and is all about opinions, that doesn't allow you however to re-write history, maybe just think a little before you go spouting off rubbish next time!

TFFT Jocko.

Chrissie, I could wallow in the fact that this response is generally the response of the majority of people that have read this ridiculous thread (thanks for your input btw).

It is very obvious (by your unecessarry [DT] responses) that you KNOW that I am the Real Deal.

I apologise to you for your lack of input on this scene.

Anyway - as to save the board any more sh*t - please PM me with any more grievances that you may have about my happy and positive memories of the lovely life this glorious scene has given to me....as obvioulsly all you wanna do is bitch....poor love, POOR!

Long Live Northern & the people that read posts for what they are...and not for how they make them look.

[spot]

Wigan broke more quality sounds than all those other venues put together...and as for not moving on, find a Searling playlist from 80-81 and stand back in amazement at the quality of the newies played.

Pete, I agree with the Mr Searling bit but not that Wigan broke more quality sounds, I think that in the early 70's & possibly up until 75-76 that Messers Levine & Curtis broke more & better tunes, at least thats the way I remember it (rose tinted glasses??) with tunes played & not heard again for weeks because of the volume of news stuff to play or was it just Mr Levine being petulant & holding them back , anyway most became classics.

As for Wigan, although I loved it with a passion (even though it was a dump) & have wonderful memories of it, the best venues for me was No1. Cleethorpes Pier, just to hear the wooden floor banging as you walked down from the top road & then to feel the Pier move with the movement of all the bodies inside gyrating around, UNBELIEVABLE & still makes me tingle just thinking of it, the music wasn't bad either, a new direction & lots of new tunes broken . Secondly, The Highland Room, Blackpool Mecca, along the tartan corridor & through the double swing doors to watch the Maestro's weave their magic to a full dancefloor , thats before it went all PVC & Lycra with bells & whistles.

"Memories are made of this, sweet sweet, the memories you gave to me",

Spot.

ps. Wigan died "for me" when Pye arrived, the cameras arrived & "Footsee" hit Top of the Pop's, it was time to move on, thank goodness for Cleethorpes, St.Ives, Unity Hall Wakefield & the rest.

Edited December 15, 2007 by spot

[KevH]

Pete, I agree with the Mr Searling bit but not that Wigan broke more quality sounds, I think that in the early 70's & possibly up until 75-76 that Messers Levine & Curtis broke more & better tunes, at least thats the way I remember it (rose tinted glasses??) with tunes played & not heard again for weeks because of the volume of news stuff to play or was it just Mr Levine being petulant & holding them back , anyway most became classics.

As for Wigan, although I loved it with a passion (even though it was a dump) & have wonderful memories of it, the best venues for me was No1. Cleethorpes Pier, just to hear the wooden floor banging as you walked down from the top road & then to feel the Pier move with the movement of all the bodies inside gyrating around, UNBELIEVABLE & still makes me tingle just thinking of it, the music wasn't bad either, a new direction & lots of new tunes broken . Secondly, The Highland Room, Blackpool Mecca, along the tartan corridor & through the double swing doors to watch the Maestro's weave their magic to a full dancefloor , thats before it went all PVC & Lycra with bells & whistles.

"Memories are made of this, sweet sweet, the memories you gave to me",

Spot.

ps. Wigan died "for me" when Pye arrived, the cameras arrived & "Footsee" hit Top of the Pop's, it was time to move on, thank goodness for Cleethorpes, St.Ives, Unity Hall Wakefield & the rest.

great post Spot,nail on head.

[Zed1]

ps. Wigan died "for me" when Pye arrived, the cameras arrived & "Footsee" hit Top of the Pop's, it was time to move on, thank goodness for Cleethorpes, St.Ives, Unity Hall Wakefield & the rest.

Out of interest Spot why did the Casino change for you after the above?.....

I was a regular for most of the late 70's and recall the filming of 'This England' (somewhat bizarre the lights staying on!) and I keep hearing people refering to this as "The End", or "the Final straw" for them.....but I realy don't understand why??..

I don't recall any 'Step' Change in the music policy other than perhaps the later CC stuff, but this was soon found out and dismissed for what it was, the rest was the more commercial sounding Levene type stuff that had always been there anyway....... at all the venue's.

Perhaps there is/was an element of wanting to keep the scene 'underground' at the time, but other than a few extra daytrippers it did not suddenly become a 'Disco' overnight even thought it might have been voted the 'Best one'

It's interesting to me that we keep hearing that the Scene needs new blood and we need to attract more people yet whenever the scene has got any good publicity in the past (Which IMHO 'This England' was) everyone slags it off and says they are going to jump ship!........ even more bizarre when you consider how 'overground' the scene is today with NS records being used to adveriste everything from Cat Food to Phones FFS!...... or am I the only one who see's the contradiction here??..

As a final point there is also a thread running re St Ives, yet reading through it there is not a single post from anyone saying "Well This, that or the Other Venue was better" or "St Ives died when this that or the other happened" ....... or does this only happen when there is 'Wigan' in the title?..

[spot]

Well Teapot it changed for me because Mr Winstanley & Co wanted to bathe in the "Star Light" that the cameras brought & also they allowed media exec's & people such as Simon Soussan to have too much input. Now I'm not against new blood having a butchers at our scene, cos I was new blood once but the cameras & documentries & TOTP etc brought out hundreds if not thousands (seemed like it at the time) of Soul tourists because N.S. was the new fashion accessory & MOST were only there cos it was "Trendy" at the time & the drugs appealed to a lot also, I knew quite a few who went just for that, not the music at all, and that brought wrong attention from D.S & the media, which then made us all out as drug addled layabouts & I know it was a big drug culture but most folk were hard working & quite respectable people.Also it amazes me that everyone you ever talk to about Wigan tell you they went but can never recall anything about the location etc, so it seems more people went there than witnessed the Lunar Moon landing!!

So for me at that time the music policy did change, Nosmoking, Wigans chosen few, Joe 90 Theme, Hawai 5-0 & various spurious Instrumentals & it wasn't a "few daytrippers", also I can't believe you thought "This England" was good publicity?? I thought it was appauling, apart from the dance sequences on the Casino floor the rest gave a typical view of London's idea of us "Northerners" in our grim towns & city's, sat in our scabby front rooms(like on Corrie) , with our flat cap/pipe & whippet, talking "lik thow does" in our mundane manual jobs, sadly waiting for just one night a week to break out & be free.Bollocks some of us had lives.

One of the original appeals to us was that you had to search for N.S. it wasn't advertised, it wasn't quite normal, it was underground & a little subversive & slightly dangerous (it was at 16) & it was difficult to get to, with no motorways & poor public transport. It's great as you say, it's "Overground" now & the thing with N.S. & commercials will be a fleeting thing, just as Pye Disco Demand was.

Other venues don't cause so much debate I think because they didn't run as long or have so many controversial episodes (Granada, Pye etc) happen to them. As I said I have some wonderful memories of the place & the music & didn't stop going till about 1978-79, although not as regular as in the early years & it was the early years here together with Blackpool Mecca that re-enforced my passion & love for Soul music & shaped what I love about it today. So not all bad Teapot, I think? And I hope you get my drift & understand what I meant, cos I ramble a bit.

Take care & be safe but mainly, "Keep on loving me like you do",

Spot.

Edited December 15, 2007 by spot

[Zed1]

Well Teapot it changed for me because Mr Winstanley & Co wanted to bathe in the "Star Light" that the cameras brought & also they allowed media exec's & people such as Simon Soussan to have too much input. Now I'm not against new blood having a butchers at our scene, cos I was new blood once but the cameras & documentries & TOTP etc brought out hundreds if not thousands (seemed like it at the time) of Soul tourists because N.S. was the new fashion accessory & MOST were only there cos it was "Trendy" at the time & the drugs appealed to a lot also, I knew quite a few who went just for that, not the music at all, and that brought wrong attention from D.S & the media, which then made us all out as drug addled layabouts & I know it was a big drug culture but most folk were hard working & quite respectable people.Also it amazes me that everyone you ever talk to about Wigan tell you they went but can never recall anything about the location etc, so it seems more people went there than witnessed the Lunar Moon landing!!

So for me at that time the music policy did change, Nosmoking, Wigans chosen few, Joe 90 Theme, Hawai 5-0 & various spurious Instrumentals & it wasn't a "few daytrippers", also I can't believe you thought "This England" was good publicity?? I thought it was appauling, apart from the dance sequences on the Casino floor the rest gave a typical view of London's idea of us "Northerners" in our grim towns & city's, sat in our scabby front rooms(like on Corrie) , with our flat cap/pipe & whippet, talking "lik thow does" in our mundane manual jobs, sadly waiting for just one night a week to break out & be free.Bollocks some of us had lives.

One of the original appeals to us was that you had to search for N.S. it wasn't advertised, it wasn't quite normal, it was underground & a little subversive & slightly dangerous (it was at 16) & it was difficult to get to, with no motorways & poor public transport. It's great as you say, it's "Overground" now & the thing with N.S. & commercials will be a fleeting thing, just as Pye Disco Demand was.

Other venues don't cause so much debate I think because they didn't run as long or have so many controversial episodes (Granada, Pye etc) happen to them. As I said I have some wonderful memories of the place & the music & didn't stop going till about 1978-79, although not as regular as in the early years & it was the early years here together with Blackpool Mecca that re-enforced my passion & love for Soul music & shaped what I love about it today. So not all bad Teapot, I think? And I hope you get my drift & understand what I meant, cos I ramble a bit.

Take care & be safe but mainly, "Keep on loving me like you do",

Spot.

Fair points Spot and I would agree (To a point) about the Soussan thing, but the 'comedy' records you mention only made up a very 'Tiny' part of the playlist (I never heard Joe90 in 3 years) and this TBH is just one of those 'Urban Myths' that people use to beat Wigan with, ie we only ever went to listen to Tony Blackburn play Frank Wilson records all nite and other such Stereotype comments.......and lets be honest here, Wigan had NO monopoly on Comedy tunes..

IHMO This England was the best piece of TV ever about the scene because it was made at 'The Time' so no looking back through Rose tinted Glasses or the elitist Stereotype views that you get on here today, yes some of the "Flat Cap and Whippet" was a bit naff but this WAS the mid-70's and many people still lived like that, maybe you were lucky, but at the time 'I' had that crappy mundane Manual Job earning crappy money and living on a crappy council estate, and like many the Casino was our highlite of the week..........sadly we could not afford to 'buy' a life like some!..

I do get "Your Drift" TBH because I hold 'similar' views........ I just choose to interprit them in a different way!..

[Barry]

I'll go along with quantity of sounds being, possibly, broke elsewhere other than Wigan - but think about THOSE records that were broke at Wigan - we can wax lyrical all night, and we are all at the end of the day RIGHT - cos they are our opinions, and they to us are All - you're your own person at the end of the day.

You can put one track up against another all day, at the end of that day I truly believe that honest chit chat furthers matters. Matters that we all care about - but point scoring 'I know this, he didn't play that, why was nobody there' shit just fragments the scene.

This board at times, regarding Niter venues, reminds me of the UK media - always looking for a finger hole to have a go at someones hard work.

If you want my honest view, less bullshit and a little more understanding pro active behaviour will possibly give it another ten years.

Yours (arseholed).

Baz X

[Pete S]

ps. Wigan died "for me" when Pye arrived, the cameras arrived & "Footsee" hit Top of the Pop's, it was time to move on, thank goodness for Cleethorpes, St.Ives, Unity Hall Wakefield & the rest.

What so for you it was only relevant for 18 months after it opened and after that it was useless? 75 was brilliant. 76 was even more brilliant. 77 was incredible for 8 months. After that it started to flag but that mid period is incomparable. We went every week because we had no interest in visiting another nighter, the few who did were soon back the next week. The This England program, I agree, was awful and the dance footage is not a representation of what it was all about, we'd never seen half of those people before who made it to the broadcast.

People can say what they like but I'm 47 now and I am still able to close my eyes and transport myself back to the first time I went to Wigan, gazing over that balcony watching the dancers below in absolute awe. I made my best ever mates there, heard the best ever music there and it was one of the major parts of my life for a couple of years and yes, if people slag it off without justifaction, I'll argue it's case, but the bottom line is: if you weren't there, how could you know it was crap?

[Zed1]

What so for you it was only relevant for 18 months after it opened and after that it was useless? 75 was brilliant. 76 was even more brilliant. 77 was incredible for 8 months. After that it started to flag but that mid period is incomparable. We went every week because we had no interest in visiting another nighter, the few who did were soon back the next week. The This England program, I agree, was awful and the dance footage is not a representation of what it was all about, we'd never seen half of those people before who made it to the broadcast.

People can say what they like but I'm 47 now and I am still able to close my eyes and transport myself back to the first time I went to Wigan, gazing over that balcony watching the dancers below in absolute awe. I made my best ever mates there, heard the best ever music there and it was one of the major parts of my life for a couple of years and yes, if people slag it off without justifaction, I'll argue it's case, but the bottom line is: if you weren't there, how could you know it was crap?

Would agree on 77.........awesome!!..

We all know Wigan had it's problems, but these were only a few very small flies in a very large jar of fantastic ointment......... the problem is, even 20 odd years later people still go on about those 'few flies'..... sadly!!..

I just choose to remember how good the ointment was instead!!.

Edited December 16, 2007 by Teapot

[spot]

Fair points Spot and I would agree (To a point) about the Soussan thing, but the 'comedy' records you mention only made up a very 'Tiny' part of the playlist (I never heard Joe90 in 3 years) and this TBH is just one of those 'Urban Myths' that people use to beat Wigan with, ie we only ever went to listen to Tony Blackburn play Frank Wilson records all nite and other such Stereotype comments.......and lets be honest here, Wigan had NO monopoly on Comedy tunes..

IHMO This England was the best piece of TV ever about the scene because it was made at 'The Time' so no looking back through Rose tinted Glasses or the elitist Stereotype views that you get on here today, yes some of the "Flat Cap and Whippet" was a bit naff but this WAS the mid-70's and many people still lived like that, maybe you were lucky, but at the time 'I' had that crappy mundane Manual Job earning crappy money and living on a crappy council estate, and like many the Casino was our highlite of the week..........sadly we could not afford to 'buy' a life like some!..

I do get "Your Drift" TBH because I hold 'similar' views........ I just choose to interprit them in a different way!..

Thanks for the reply Teapot, the bit about "flat cap & whippet" was meant to show the stereotyping by the media of "us northerners" & not a comment on individuals, as was the mundane job etc, mine drove me mad & lots of mates had mundane jobs etc. I know the "comedy" tunes were few & far between but it was the influence of outsiders & lure of £££ that got me & I did hear "Joe 90" & Hawai 5-0 & other such dross played out, many times. Perhaps I'm just older & more cynical than you are my friend & your views are as worthy as mine, although as you say "different interpretations" & I still loved the place.

What so for you it was only relevant for 18 months after it opened and after that it was useless? 75 was brilliant. 76 was even more brilliant. 77 was incredible for 8 months. After that it started to flag but that mid period is incomparable. We went every week because we had no interest in visiting another nighter, the few who did were soon back the next week. The This England program, I agree, was awful and the dance footage is not a representation of what it was all about, we'd never seen half of those people before who made it to the broadcast.

People can say what they like but I'm 47 now and I am still able to close my eyes and transport myself back to the first time I went to Wigan, gazing over that balcony watching the dancers below in absolute awe. I made my best ever mates there, heard the best ever music there and it was one of the major parts of my life for a couple of years and yes, if people slag it off without justifaction, I'll argue it's case, but the bottom line is: if you weren't there, how could you know it was crap?

Pete I never said it was only relevant for 18 months, for me it just wasn't AS relevant as it had been & I did carry on going (as stated) till 79. It was originally the hub & glue of N.S. but it also (IMVHO) helped fragment it & lead to it's partial dimise. I like you can "close my eye's & be transported back to the main hall" & feel the tingle down my spine, hear the foot stomping & feel the heat of all the bodies. There's definitely a lot of good things in the Casino's favour but also a lot of bad & rubbish things, nostalgia's a funny pink tinted glass & I remember some of the reality of it & you can argue it's case & your entitled to your opinion, totally. I WAS there from the 2nd or 3rd (not sure which?) until we stopped 78-79 & most of it must have been ok or I'd have stopped a lot earlier & I'm not just slagging it off but stating my take on certain times & events in Wigans history.

Take care & be safe but remember "Wigan Casino" was only a place,

Spot.

Edited December 16, 2007 by spot

[Guest]

Mr May

I have just stumbled across this thread and hope you were p1ssed as you seem to get very aggressive with some who dare not to agree with you, especially Chrissie.

I loved Wigan at the time and as people have said the memories wil always stay with me, even the fights with the punks when they decided to change the rock night to a punk night.

Mickey Mouse's concerto in B Major stopped me going for quite a while as it was commercialism and nothing more. Even getting in free as I used to sweep up wasnt enough. Although I did go back for the last x number of last all nighters.

Ive known you for years and you cant tell me the nights at Notts Oddfellows in Leicester, Stafford etc werent just as good

I also remember you moving on to Jazz Funk and leaving the northern scene behind as it no longer did it for you.

I carried on experiencing great soul nights & nighters all over the country although I did calm down about for wife and kid. I can honestly say I enjoy it just as much now as I ever did and I m really looking forward to Bidds next week, cant dance as much now as the legs wont take it.

So I guess my point is why is someone who left the scene over 20 years ago now having a go at other people just because their opinion differs

[Barry]

Mr May

I have just stumbled across this thread and hope you were p1ssed as you seem to get very aggressive with some who dare not to agree with you, especially Chrissie.

I loved Wigan at the time and as people have said the memories wil always stay with me, even the fights with the punks when they decided to change the rock night to a punk night.

Mickey Mouse's concerto in B Major stopped me going for quite a while as it was commercialism and nothing more. Even getting in free as I used to sweep up wasnt enough. Although I did go back for the last x number of last all nighters.

Ive known you for years and you cant tell me the nights at Notts Oddfellows in Leicester, Stafford etc werent just as good

I also remember you moving on to Jazz Funk and leaving the northern scene behind as it no longer did it for you.

I carried on experiencing great soul nights & nighters all over the country although I did calm down about for wife and kid. I can honestly say I enjoy it just as much now as I ever did and I m really looking forward to Bidds next week, cant dance as much now as the legs wont take it.

So I guess my point is why is someone who left the scene over 20 years ago now having a go at other people just because their opinion differs

I never left the NS scene Longy, just stopped attending venues that played NS due to the ridiculous politics that surround the scene, your lot just didn't appeal to me any more.

I never stopped buying it - which is the true measure of a person who truly loves a form of music. I don't need to play up to some self important hierachy - you know why?

Cos I love Northern - and I don't need somebody two steps up, on the Social Climbing Scale that is ( ) to tell me that I do.

Chrissie didn't read my initial, and very obvious question correctly (she did really, but the age took over.

She shamelessly took the whole thread down a completely different, irrellevant, egotistical and ultimatley pointless route (read the thread).

You obviously can't read either 'Longy'? (there's courses for that, see Citizens Advice), stop point scoring mate.

BTW - who are you?- cos I don't know - it appears in your mind we have some form of self constructed history.

This may be my final allowed post on here as the Moderators have informed me that, amongst other ridiculous charges, that I have 'slagged other peoples views off'.

I think that the people that have read my recent posts will know better.

feel free to find me on...

www.onhubertstreet.co.uk/mb

I'm a belting lad (but not when it comes to idiots)

Yours (with a lovely Santa hat on),

Baz x

Dead Man Walking

[Barry]

PS

You'll never win.

Cos I am right!

And I mean that (Sorry it should have read... 'KNOW THAT!)

[Barry]

and you cant tell me the nights at Notts Oddfellows in Leicester, Stafford etc werent just as good

Yes I can...cos they weren't 'Longy'(?).