(new) Northern Soul Top 500 Book Launch Event

[Sunnysoul]

Just to give a little balance to this discussion ...

I have no hesitation whatsoever in saying that I absolutely love the Top 500 Book ... one of the best ever published on the subject along with the book on The Twisted Wheel and also David Nowell's book.

I also wholeheartedly recommend the Top 500 Book to people here (Down Under) who are just starting to show an interest in Soul Music and Northern Soul because it serves as a great "overview" and reference guide to the scene. It's a great introduction to the scene !

(PS No, I've never met Kev Roberts or for that matter any of the other major protagonists mentioned in this thread!)

[Barry]

I've got about 12 posts down on this thread and its posts.....and have physically had to stop reading it...Paul S....mate.... really???

[Barry]

Someone wrote he 'saw an opportunity' (KR) - no - he didn't - he had the passion to put his opinions in print - don't, stupidly, have a go - have the wherewithall to put yours in print too if you want to argue with a bloke who put his money and his mouth where his soul is (shite analogy I know).

f*** me, if you put in, you should be allowed to earn a bob down the line from it too.

I'm a fucking (happy) no mark on this scene - I'll always try to express my feelings, yes - but I hope I never go down the route that this thread and some of its posters have.

[Barry]

Right, I've read through it now - what a bastard awful, nasty thread.

[chrissie]

Right, I've read through it now - what a bastard awful, nasty thread.

Barry, to be fair to many people who have posted on this thread,who you probablly think are being nasty, many of us have been shafted financially by KR and are understandably bitter.

QoFxx

[Barry]

Barry, to be fair to many people who have posted on this thread,who you probablly think are being nasty, many of us have been shafted financially by KR and are understandably bitter.

QoFxx

That's what PMs are for Chrissie, for you to air your grievancies to the bloke in question - posts on well- viewed forums such as this, are just nasty pot shots.

[chrissie]

That's what PMs are for Chrissie, for you to air your grievancies to the bloke in question - posts on well- viewed forums such as this, are just nasty pot shots.

KR is no longer a member. So PMing isn't an option and I think it is only right that we let people who don't know about his underhand tactics know so they don't get shafted like the rest of us. Its like blowing the cover on a dodgy ebay seller. Soul SOurce is a community and hopefully people will learn from our mistakes.

For instance, if you bought a record in good faith off ebay, from a so called major dealer, only to find out it was a boot wouldn't you warn other people about it?

QoFxx

[Barry]

Fair do's Chrissie, yours is a personal thing - I don't think that yours and KR personal dealings should cloud his personal media expressions that's all.

So he had you off (and maybe in your eyes, others too) but wtf has that got to do with the bloke giving the watching world something to go off when it comes to furthering their NS knowledge?

[chrissie]

So he had you off (and maybe in your eyes, others too) but wtf has that got to do with the bloke giving the watching world something to go off when it comes to furthering their NS knowledge?

Funnily enough, I resepect KRs knowledge and generally beleive he loves the scene but just feel he is misguided in thinking he is some sort of NS god and knows it all. What he doesn't seem to realise is that unlilke 30 years ago we now have the luxury of the tinternet and people exchange opinions and more importantly knowledge freely. WHile he can make money out of selling bootlegs and dissapointing people with poor organsation at events he will. My advice to KR is, its time he let go of that straw he has been clutching on to for the last few years and leave it to the people who know what they are doing. As they say, no smoke with out fire.

QoFxx

Edited December 2, 2007 by chrissie

[Barry]

Funnily enough, I resepect KRs knowledge and generally beleive he loves the scene

Now that's a positive mate - but there have been a thousand blackguards on this scene, and every other - that's life - I just don't see the point of character assasination on a, very, public board!?

[chrissie]

Now that's a positive mate - but there have been a thousand blackguards on this scene, and every other - that's life - I just don't see the point of character assasination on a, very, public board!?

Thats what a forum is about, sharing opinions, views, experiences. You still haven't answered my post early on. If you got ripped off by someone on ebay or by a dissapointment with the organisation at a venue would you warn other like minded soulies, (many who I regard as friends)

QoFxx

[Barry]

Thats what a forum is about, sharing opinions, views, experiences. You still haven't answered my post early on. If you got ripped off by someone on ebay or by a dissapointment with the organisation at a venue would you warn other like minded soulies, (many who I regard as friends)

QoFxx

I've been had over, record-wise, by the majority of dealers I've bought from - and well done them.

It's a business, just because you and I don't see it that way has nothing to do with it.

[Guest geordiebri]

Once upon A Time in Whitby (Click On Me)

[Guest biggray1]

Someone wrote he 'saw an opportunity' (KR) - no - he didn't - he had the passion to put his opinions in print - don't, stupidly, have a go - have the wherewithall to put yours in print too if you want to argue with a bloke who put his money and his mouth where his soul is (shite analogy I know).

f*** me, if you put in, you should be allowed to earn a bob down the line from it too.

I'm a fucking (happy) no mark on this scene - I'll always try to express my feelings, yes - but I hope I never go down the route that this thread and some of its posters have.

Hi Barry,regarding your post about mr Roberts and your support etc,without me sounding arsh etc you should search this site for the threads regarding KR AND READ THEM! AFTER READING THEM PLEASE LET US KNOW HOW YOUR OPINION IF ALTERED IS NOW. Graham.

[Guest biggray1]

Once upon A Time in Whitby (Click On Me)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...F..kin brill mate

[chrissie]

Once upon A Time in Whitby (Click On Me)

Classic!!!

QoFxx

[Guest biggray1]

I've been had over, record-wise, by the majority of dealers I've bought from - and well done them.

It's a business, just because you and I don't see it that way has nothing to do with it.

Yes Barry i know the feeling of being done over by dealer's and Promotor's and other villans,and thats the reason for these Character assasinations,we wont let the likes of Kr cramm NS down our throats and then be insulted when coments related too Ticket touting,advetising,and sod everyone else but Kr's promotions,oh and its our job to remark about the going on's about shaydy deals and the likes of kr especially when its reported on here..Graham.

[Guest biggray1]

Now that's a positive mate - but there have been a thousand blackguards on this scene, and every other - that's life - I just don't see the point of character assasination on a, very, public board!?

Barry,when you organize any event with the public and complaints are made to the organization related too false interpretation ie Ticket sales and non genuine bootleg or counterfiet items or it dos'nt say exactly wot it sez on the can its the PUBLIC who complain..we are the Public and so are you,thats why you are reading these comments...Graham.

[Paul-s]

That's what PMs are for Chrissie, for you to air your grievancies to the bloke in question - posts on well- viewed forums such as this, are just nasty pot shots.

Nasty mate. I have NEVER ripped anyone off on this scene...never will. PM's? I thought KR only used them to threaten people (remember Kirsty?)...theres nothing i need to hide in pm's.

[Paul-s]

Funnily enough, I resepect KRs knowledge and generally beleive he loves the scene but just feel he is misguided in thinking he is some sort of NS god and knows it all. What he doesn't seem to realise is that unlilke 30 years ago we now have the luxury of the tinternet and people exchange opinions and more importantly knowledge freely. WHile he can make money out of selling bootlegs and dissapointing people with poor organsation at events he will. My advice to KR is, its time he let go of that straw he has been clutching on to for the last few years and leave it to the people who know what they are doing. As they say, no smoke with out fire.

QoFxx

Very well put.

[Guest biggray1]

Nasty mate. I have NEVER ripped anyone off on this scene...never will. PM's? I thought KR only used them to threaten people (remember Kirsty?)...theres nothing i need to hide in pm's.

Spot On Paul.

[Paul-s]

Once upon A Time in Whitby (Click On Me)

THAT IS THE FUNNIEST THING IVE SEEN IN A LONG TIME. BRILLIANT...p-ss-ng myself!

[Pete S]

Nasty mate. I have NEVER ripped anyone off on this scene...never will. PM's? I thought KR only used them to threaten people (remember Kirsty?)...theres nothing i need to hide in pm's.

[BrianB]

This scene has always had people who will rip you off, sell you bootlegs as originals, sell dodgy gear, pinch your coat/records/drinks, and at Wigan and other venues, rob you.

Why pick on KR?

I don't know the guy, never met him. I went to Blackpool both times. I should have had a better time than I did, 'cos of the repetition of records, and far too many 70ts in the main room. Did I feel ripped off? No I didn't.

I might go next year, probably won't. Its called Choice!

Is John Manship ripping people off? Are his books widely read?

Why slag KR and not David Nowell?

I know he has his enemies, but you are not being fair.

As I said before, if you feel strongly about KR don't buy the book, and don't go to the venues.

Paul, why do you always use bold type or capitals? I'm sure you know the "shouting" inference, and e mail etiqutte?

[Harry Crosby]

THAT IS THE FUNNIEST THING IVE SEEN IN A LONG TIME. BRILLIANT...p-ss-ng myself!

TOTALLY AGREE JUST NEARLY CHOKED ON ME YORKSHIRE PUDDINS HA HA TOP MATE

[Chalky]

Couldn't find Kae Williams, but I believe the person that got the master from him had his permission to have cuts done, and it came from them.

You didn't have permissionn tho' Trev. You asked and was told you couldn't cut it and you distinctly promised that it was for I-pod only!!!

Edited December 2, 2007 by chalky

[Paul-s]

Paul, why do you always use bold type or capitals? I'm sure you know the "shouting" inference, and e mail etiqutte?

[Guest Trevski]

You didn't have permissionn tho' Trev. You asked and was told you couldn't cut it and you distinctly promised that it was for I-pod only!!!

True, Guilty as charged. I cut it as the 'b' side to Rhetta Hughes "cry myself to sleep" as I couldn't be arsed carrying the LP about, 

and wanted to hear KW properly on my deck. Never intended to play it out.

Had not done prior to the Qube, or since. That particular day I pulled Rhetta Hughes out and, due to 'too much of the other' put on the wrong side. Upon my return home, it went in the bin, to avoid any further mistakes. I know it was a bit naughty to cut it, but it was only intended for my personal 

use.

[Ady Croasdell]

No profile becase basically I dont know how to!

CD's some illegal, I can tell you that Kevs involvement with Goldmine was totally legal. They spent thousands sourcing and licensing.

It shouldn't have cost that much to put "licensed from Toller" on the back of them.

[BrianB]

Paul, why do you always use bold type or capitals? I'm sure you know the "shouting" inference, and e mail etiqutte?

Apologies, not being very literate, I did not know of the e -mail etiqutte thing. If it damaged your ears in any way, i apologise!..by the way, I think you mean etiquette x

Thank you for pointing my typo out Paul.

I must admit, I am surprised being a successful playwright, (and the play WAS excellent...saw it twice)that you are not very literate, but the small "i" gives us a clue I suppose.

[Chalky]

Thats what a forum is about, sharing opinions, views, experiences. You still haven't answered my post early on. If you got ripped off by someone on ebay or by a dissapointment with the organisation at a venue would you warn other like minded soulies, (many who I regard as friends)

QoFxx

I'm not defending Kev or sticking up for him (and I don't agree with everything he does) but this topic has been anything but about sharing opinions views and experiences. It's been a witch hunt by quite a few of you and some of the comments are out of the gutter IMO. It was originally about the launch of a book and soon turned into a witch hunt and an excuse for some of you to launch a personal attack on someone over something that is nothing to do with most of you.

Kirsty is the only one as far as I can see who has a problem and you lot attacking Kev on a public forum is hardly going to help matters IMO. If the problem can't be sorted via e-mail etc then shouldn't Kirsty go through other channels to get this sorted...in private!!

The event organisation you talk about is history and has been discussed on here before so why should this be brought into a debate about a book?

as for exploitation does Goldsoul force people to part with their money? are all the others selling badges, pictures, birthday cards and other nostalgic tat at events exploiting innocent souilies. are they going to be vilified on here too just to show that this isn't a witch hunt against one person/company and you treat everyone the same?

Edited December 2, 2007 by chalky

[Chalky]

Thats what a forum is about, sharing opinions, views, experiences. You still haven't answered my post early on. If you got ripped off by someone on ebay or by a dissapointment with the organisation at a venue would you warn other like minded soulies, (many who I regard as friends)

QoFxx

forgive me,I may have missed it when reading through but what are your experiences of being ripped off by Kev? and what are the bootlegs being sold by Kev? Just so I don't slip up and buy one by mistake

[Guest Trevski]

as for exploitation does Goldsoul force people to part with their money? are all the others selling badges, pictures, birthday cards and other nostalgic tat at events exploiting innocent souilies. are they going to be vilified on here too just to show that this isn't a witch hunt against one person/company and you treat everyone the same?

Fair comment Chalks.

Nostalgic tat from anyone, is IMVHO just money making c**p. If people want to buy mugs, tshirts, badges, etc etc ad infinitum, then thats fine let 'em. However, I have a right to say its tat, and I don't agree with it, as I have done.

Furthermore, if you read back the posts on this, my comments were as follows:

1/Think your 'Dad' has got it about right Stevie, old chap!

2/Would have thought anything in the top 500 was played out before it made the book.

3/Anyone care to post up the top 50? Have no idea what they are, but could do with a laugh and I won't get my Broons annual 'til Christmas!

4/Yes, Bernard "Privet" Hedges knows his stuff!

5/Don't have a top ten, let alone a 'top 50' can't see the point of rating tunes in this way. How can you put say, Robert Tanner over Sandy Golden? Both excellent examples of classy Northern mid-tempo, one male, one female, why choose? Or put them against Joseph Webster or Parliaments. Different types of tune all brilliant in their own right.

Can't be done with lists, it's like the '100 greatest war movies' how can you rate 'Private Ryan' over "In which we serve"? If it's good, it's good, placing it in a list doesn't make it better or worse than those above or below

6/Mike, can we have a "Incoming! don your tin hats" emoticon please!

7/A/ Why be careful? they are not blood-sucking leaches trying to wring every last penny they can from the scene with books, dvd's badges, bootlegs, cd's, t-shirts, nostalgia venues, etc, etc. They are Dj's providing entertainement, usualy at a loss, given the cost of 45's AND providing new discoveries, especialy in the case of Butch and Sam!

B/ The very blood-sucking leaches as described above! (Chris is not in any way to be connected with the 'Triumverate of tat' ) My problem is not with the tunes included in the book per s but with the money grabbing ethos behind it. The only reason Mr Roberts is laughing as he rolls in mounds crisp tenners is because idiots keep putting money in his pocket for his exploitative wares! Some people have more integrity than to sell that which they profess love for 30 pieces of silver!

Furthermore, Butch, Sam etc give a lot to the scene, for little reward. KR gives nothing, and takes everything he f***ing can! Does anyone actually believe all the books, venues etc are provided by KR for the love of the scene, and its devotees, and not for the love of KR and money? If its the former, then you are really gulible saddo's. If its the latter, then spend your dosh elswhere!

8/True, so would I, perhaps as a successful record dealer like JM or TB. I would not, however do it by milking it for all I can get and selling 'nostalgic' tat. You can't honestly say you condone his methodology?

9/Fair enough Chalks, but I take the view that, as as English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing'. Criticising him may not do any good, (then again it might open the eyes of some) but to say nothing is to silently condone him, IMVHO!

10/Yeah, right. So you are a non-profit making, running-at-a-loss enterprise then?

12/Just browsed thru

https://www.goldsoul.co.uk/shop/north-soul/45/other.html

You trying to tell me they are all legitimate re-issues?

13/You don't have to be the distributors as such. Someone selling counterfeit Lacoste, Addidas etc on a market stall is still guilty of selling illegal counterfeits, even tho' they didn't produce them!

Hardly a Witch hunt, and hardly the remarks to deserve the comments, 

"Extremist",

"outcast"

"hideous hostility",

"The quite vile and disgusting comments from Trevor Hare of York 'trevski'"  

"These characters are now creating so many bad vibes, they themselves are receiving awful reputations."

"Patrons of a Rogue State" 

'the North Korea of Soul'.

 "Trevski, actually turns so many off the thought of visiting the Wilton's of this world"

All from KR aimed at me, in one post!

what hideous hostility?

what vile and discusting comments?

I can't see it! Witch hunt? I'm just glad none of my cats are black uns, or I would be in trouble!

Edited December 2, 2007 by Trevski

[Chalky]

Fair comment Chalks.

Nostalgic tat from anyone, is IMVHO just money making c**p. If people want to buy mugs, tshirts, badges, etc etc ad infinitum, then thats fine let 'em. However, I have a right to say its tat, and I don't agree with it, as I have done.

Furthermore, if you read back the posts on this, my comments were as follows:

yes but are you going to vilify and name all the other dealers of the so called nostalgic tat like you have Kev, just to make it a balanced debate? Maybe you should start a new topic for this? Name all the scene exploiters, all in the name of fairness if you've evidence of illegal trading then report it to the relevant authorities, somehow I don't think you will do any of this. Also I don't condone anyone who sells boots, I'd like to see nothing more than the artists in question getting what they should.

The topic is about a book and it quickly turned into something totally different.

Funny how brave sitting at a computer makes people.

Edited December 2, 2007 by chalky

[Guest Trevski]

1/yes but are you going to vilify and name all the other dealers of the so called nostalgic tat like you have Kev, just to make it a balanced debate? Maybe you should start a new topic for this? Name all the scene exploiters, all in the name of fairness if you've evidence of illegal trading then report it to the relevant authorities, somehow I don't think you will do any of this.

The topic is about a book and it quickly turned into something totally different.

2/Funny how brave sitting at a computer makes people

1/If they/or their products are promoted on here, then yes. His book was on here so I replied.

2/ What's this supposed to mean??  I won't say anything on here I won't say to someones face. Are you calling me cowardly? I stand by what I say, and If anyone want's to take it up in 'real life' that won't change. Iv'e had a slap for my views in the past, and come off worse, but it ain't stopped me yet!

[Chalky]

1/If they/or their products are promoted on here, then yes. His book was on here so I replied.

2/ What's this supposed to mean?? I won't say anything on here I won't say to someones face. Are you calling me cowardly? I stand by what I say, and If anyone want's to take it up in 'real life' that won't change. Iv'e had a slap for my views in the past, and come off worse, but it ain't stopped me yet!

1, Like I said the topic is about a book, it's now anything but a discussion about a book.

2. Just a general statement not aimed at anyone in particular.

Edited December 2, 2007 by chalky

[Guest Trevski]

1, Like I said the topic is about a book, it's now anything but a discussion about a book.

My comments were directly about the book, until Samm, spokesperson for KR turned it into something else by mentioning promotions etc. Even then, my comments were pretty mild, and included Winstanley & Levine as tat peddlers too, so I wasn't just singling out KR.

2. Just a general statement not aimed at anyone in particular. fair enough

[Guest soulmaguk]

Sorry, it was me that started this, Just wanted to know how the book launch went at Blackpool Weekender, see picture and (1&2) then the answer came, that there was no book launch that night, why no launch? i dunno . Maybe the time was'nt quite right eh! Also, by the time next week came round to York and the book launch, i had gotten all confused as to why or what i wanted to go and see the launch for anyway! then it all came clear...i did'nt 'really' want to go in the first place, simple.

1. Can anyone let me know how the new top 500 book launch went last night, as i am very interested, sadly i could not make it. 2. Anyone see or buy the new top 500 book? i read somewhere that it was the launch of this book! Thanks.

[chrissie]

forgive me,I may have missed it when reading through but what are your experiences of being ripped off by Kev? and what are the bootlegs being sold by Kev? Just so I don't slip up and buy one by mistake

It was one, about 4 years ago, a played out oldie so you wouldn't want it and a only very cheap prob about £5 didn't suspect it as it was at about the right price and din't spot the mistake till I got the record in my hand. I didn't spot it at the time but you would and I would now. So lets leave it at that. Or are you doubting my word.

QoFxx

[Guest soulmaguk]

Sorry, it was me that started this, Just wanted to know how the book launch went at Blackpool Weekender, see picture and (1&2) then the answer came, that there was no book launch that night, why no launch? i dunno . Maybe the time was'nt quite right eh! Also, by the time next week came round to York and the book launch, i had gotten all confused as to why or what i wanted to go and see the launch for anyway! then it all came clear...i did'nt 'really' want to go in the first place, simple.

1. Can anyone let me know how the new top 500 book launch went last night, as i am very interested, sadly i could not make it. 2. Anyone see or buy the new top 500 book? i read somewhere that it was the launch of this book! Thanks.

Sorry, i will refrase that, my grammer is shocking. " I couldn't of really wanted to go in the first place"

[Chalky]

It was one, about 4 years ago, a played out oldie so you wouldn't want it and a only very cheap prob about £5 didn't suspect it as it was at about the right price and din't spot the mistake till I got the record in my hand. I didn't spot it at the time but you would and I would now. So lets leave it at that. Or are you doubting my word.

QoFxx

don't doubt your word at all. Dunno why you think I wouldn't want a played out oldie, love my oldies, played out or not as much upfront stuff but just prefer not to hear them at a venue every week.

[Chalky]

anyone got a list of whats in the 500?

[Guest]

Well, there is nothing like hypocrisy to bring out the moral flag wavers. The trouble is with threads like this, is that they ignore the fundamental facts regarding the scene since it's inception. Okay, Roberts is in it to make money, what's news? We all know that, but for donkey's years there have been hundreds of people milling about selling records, organising events and selling merchandise and the vast majority of them have never handed a penny of their profits back to those who made the music in the first place. Ironically, without their endeavours a lot of people would not have recieved their own introductions to the scene during whatever period!

Everytime we buy a £10, a £100 or a £1,000 record, we are paying somebody (Dealers or fellow collectors) hard cash profits that are never recognised via any royalties system and how many of us have ever really given a flying fig about that? (I include myself obviously in that and will continue to do so)....

The truth is that there are a hell of a lot of british people, who have made more money out of the scene than lots of original soul artists, so polarising in on Roberts seems rather shallow to say the least. Let me emphasise I am not defending anybody here, just merely pointing out that he is an easy target. The Northern Soul scene has always been exploitive but every one of us has the choice of who we choose to exploit us. Most people after a few years, get the drift of things, but if there are still a lot of people patronising the likes of Roberts, then maybe it says more about them than it does him.

Edited December 2, 2007 by chorleysoul

[chrissie]

don't doubt your word at all. Dunno why you think I wouldn't want a played out oldie, love my oldies, played out or not as much upfront stuff but just prefer not to hear them at a venue every week.

I totally agree, it was a record i wanted to replace for sentimental reason.

QoFxx

Edited December 2, 2007 by chrissie