Playing Rare Originals @ Venues: Does It Make Sense?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Slightly off thread (But not too much) Seems like the right people are reading to ask - I want to play Chuck Carter - He's A Lover - It's unreleased and only on a Kent LP. Am I allowed to get an acetate cut and play it? Or should I play it off Kent? Or should I not play it at all and only hear it if say Guy Hennigan (Who I understand broke it) Or Ady C plays it? - It would actually be a new sound to some people in this area.

Please advice.

Ta,

Len.

'SILKS' @ Wellinhborough this Sat...

Acetate. The album version will probably be too thin and result in horrible feedback if you jack the volume up!

Ian D

[Guest]

Slightly off thread (But not too much) Seems like the right people are reading to ask - I want to play Chuck Carter - He's A Lover - It's unreleased and only on a Kent LP. Am I allowed to get an acetate cut and play it? Or should I play it off Kent? Or should I not play it at all and only hear it if say Guy Hennigan (Who I understand broke it) Or Ady C plays it? - It would actually be a new sound to some people in this area.

Please advice.

Ta,

Len.

'SILKS' @ Wellinhborough this Sat...

Ady and his mates aswell yes if you own the said lp play it of that or carve it for yourself and play it out,but let the folks know which original album its off.

Edited November 22, 2007 by ken

[Dave Thorley]

Ady and his mates aswell yes if you own the said cd play it of that or carve it for yourself and play it out,but let the folk know where they can get theyre own the original cd.

Bloody hell Ken, if you do all that, one of your intros would be even longer than Guy's.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Len]

Ady and his mates aswell yes if you own the said cd play it of that or carve it for yourself and play it out,but let the folks know which original album its off.

Right, thanks Ken and Ian,

That's good enough for me. I'll look forward to giving it some stick! - It can be confusing sometimes and I don't wanna break them there rules! lol - Thought I may have needed a certificate or something off the Dj who played it first that's all!

Len.

Silks @ Wellingborough this Sat... etc...etc...

[Guest]

Right, thanks Ken and Ian,

That's good enough for me. I'll look forward to giving it some stick! - It can be confusing sometimes and I don't wanna break them there rules! lol - Thought I may have needed a certificate or something off the Dj who played it first that's all!

Len.

Silks @ Wellingborough this Sat... etc...etc...

Just tell Ady i said it was ok

[Modernsoulsucks]

Personally I couldn't give a flying.... what format a dj uses in his spot in a club, so a laptop is no big deal. It's a matter of personal choice.

However, IMO Northern is more than that one thing anyway and original vinyl will always be at the heart of it.

And it doesn't have to be obscenely rare and expensive vinyl either, just good so no need to apologise Mischief.

Slightly related topic I reckon it'd be nice to see say Kent give out the odd exclusive to some 4th division dj's like Ernie or Mischief on here.

They'd be chuffed to bits, playlists in local clubs would get a shot in the arm, and as someone pointed out it takes an age nowadays to break a record anyway so local exposure is as good as any.

ROD

Edited November 22, 2007 by modernsoulsucks

[Billy Freemantle]

In the late 60s, I can remember working deejays who needed to get paid and who weren't just hobbyists - playing original records if they had them, tracks off lps and reel to reel, tracks recorded off the radio, reissues, boots (if they had them) - in fact anything that produced the great sounds that the dancers wanted to hear. They didn't use cassttes beceause the sound was crap back then amd of cours there were no mp3s and CDs. If there had been digital media they'd have been used. This was how it originally was. Fact.

[Dave Thorley]

Personally I couldn't give a flying.... what format a dj uses in his spot in a club, so a laptop is no big deal. It's a matter of personal choice.

However, IMO Northern is more than that one thing anyway and original vinyl will always be at the heart of it.

And it doesn't have to be obscenely rare and expensive vinyl either, just good so no need to apologise Mischief.

Slightly related topic I reckon it'd be nice to see say Kent give out the odd exclusive to some 4th division dj's like Ernie or Mischief on here.

They'd be chuffed to bits, playlists in local clubs would get a shot in the arm, and as someone pointed out it takes an age nowadays to break a record anyway so local exposure is as good as any.

ROD

I don't think that the majority on the dancefloor have ever cared Rod, just the chin scratchers. Also like the Kent idea

[Len]

Slightly related topic I reckon it'd be nice to see say Kent give out the odd exclusive to some 4th division dj's like Ernie or Mischief on here.

They'd be chuffed to bits, playlists in local clubs would get a shot in the arm, and as someone pointed out it takes an age nowadays to break a record anyway so local exposure is as good as any.

ROD

[Guest vinylvixen]

I would lime to think Gillingham even though they are shite but i will have to settle for Chatham Town, I played for them and i didnt get paid but i played for them because i loved the game and the club and was always passsionate every time i walked on that pitch, a bit like DJing for me, i may not be the best or never will be but i always do my best and do it with a bit of thought and passion, everyone can be obvious but you got to know what standard your at too,

Im the same as Mischief and will do it on original because i get something out of that when lots of my mates think im mad and they dont give a shit if its on OV or cd or even mp3 now,

like i said earlier, if a promoter wants to put an event on that was going to be done on with either Boots, CDs or MP3s and the paying public was aware of this then only bodies through the door will decide if it really makes a difference or not.

Bearsy

That's quite spooky, Bearsy.....I was going to say I wanted to be Chatham Town FC as I used to live at the back of the pitch on Palmerston Road - I wasn't posh enough to live on Bourneville Avenue ....you be the Gills as you live nearer Anyway - I'm off to polish me vinyl for Saturday night Jo

[Ian Dewhirst]

That's quite spooky, Bearsy.....I was going to say I wanted to be Chatham Town FC as I used to live at the back of the pitch on Palmerston Road - I wasn't posh enough to live on Bourneville Avenue ....you be the Gills as you live nearer Anyway - I'm off to polish me vinyl for Saturday night Jo

Hey Joe,

I meant to ask you - do you know whatever happened to the record library when Polygram (now UMG) took over Decca in the late 70's? The room used to be down at Albert Embankment and it had mint promo copies of every record both UK and US ever issued on London, Decca, Coral etc, etc. I just wondered whether the stuff went into storage when Polygram took over? Might be worth investigating.......

I think we're coming down on Saturday although Champy's being a tad unpredictable at the moment....

Promise I won't mention laptops LOL.....

Ian D

[Dave Moore]

I think you've misread me Dave. Remember I started on the Northern scene back in 1970 long before I joined the Music Biz. I was merely pointing out that I have an overview which is different to many regulars on here because I've enjoyed a few different scenes and worked 'on the other side' as well. Let's not forget that the 45rpm record was the main format for the mass market in the 60's and 70's and when Northern Soul artists released the records originally they were all looking for big sales and a hit in the commercial market.

Which I guess gives me a bit of a problem with your statement - "The main point (or ethos, the word that many people band about), of the scene in the first place was/is to find our own route and AVOID the mainstream 'music biz" surely".

Surely Northern Soul was founded on the Motown principal originally wasn't it? And Motown WAS the mainstream in the mid 60's - Berry Gordy basically invented a lot of the 'production line' principals as you well know. So, no, I don't think we were necessarily finding our own route - we EMBRACED what was a mainstream sound and kept embracing it long past it's commercial sell-by date for everyone else. I guess that's the beauty of Northern Soul!

Also I guess I'm saying that it's only us that puts the emphasis on the format. The artists are seldom bothered how their music is heard as long as it finds an audience.

By the way, how's the mag going? Loved all the issues I've read to date. Do you have a decent U.S, audience?

Best,

Ian D

Yep,

Think you're right, I didn't understand your point of view. It's not unusual for me when 'listening" to DJs though. Many of the discussions about "The Scene" and their part in it I find strange at times to say the least. I'd rather concentrate on the collecting/dancing side of things within the scene. I have no desire to be a DJ. I think my views are shaped because of that. I struggle with a lot of the 'DJ' related threads on here now. For many of us I would venture that the old school etiquette associated with enjoying rare records-collecting-DJing-sourcing-enjoying new discoveries by folks who've dug them out and applauding people who drop the odd forgotten oldie on the Technics is self explanatory by now and still at the heart of what is called in UK "The Scene". Take away the vinyl hounds and I would suggest that the venues would soon lose a lot of appeal for a lot of people. For instance, what we gonna talk about between the disco records and the Rock n Roll some DJ's foist on their customers at times.

Mags going great guns thanks Matey. Might even be able to afford real meat again in a few years.

The US fanbase collects the mag. It's great to post them out to subscribers in Kansas, Texas, New Jersey, California, Maine etc etc. Now if only I could persuade them to get off their arses and get on a plane at the same time together we may actually have a scene of our own here!

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

Nice thread, but as a DJ myself first time only done it once so far. I would say if you have the money to play off original vinyl then it's your choice if you. I personally would love to maybe have back up copies on as i call them re-issue or maybe a UK/US version which is less collectable them original ie UK £200, US £15. that way my original won't be worn.

the only thing people would see is you have re-issues, no originals and could well slate you. playing off a laptop or i pod makes no sense after all you guarantee that a lot of requests will be easier to play so no DJ can be excused when they say sorry not got it when you have. it be rather if i got time.

You would expect only with a laptop thay treasured record you wish you had you can no playout.

Personally i would play original if i had it rare maybe a little and re-issue sometime if i had it that way it will last longer the original copy and lastly

it's not always about rare anyway. i know some great tunes are rare but surely if you played a good set of tunes that wasn't all rare people can say he was still a good DJ. when i did my first and only spot i played Limmie and the family cookin - Spider which was a b side and easy to obtain for £5 or less but to me it's a great record and even one of the DJ's Martin Stanford hadn't known the song or realized it was from You Can Do Magic single. I am just not gonna be someone who wants anything other then vinyl original if possible and only rare if i got money to buy it.

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Just put a Laptop on radom play with voice edits like " Stafford Monster " and "Wigan Stomper" , no need for DJ's with collections The laptop can do the lot

I'm thinking you can't pick up JackFM where you live?

[Barry]

That could be me LOL! I've never deejayed using a laptop but two recent events have made me reconsider the whole thing:-

1) I caught Greg Wilson doing a set on laptop (and reel-to-reel tapes believe it or not) and he made his choices by judging the mood of the club (Ian! Surely this is how anyone dj's [plays records for money - Rhino] and played records I haven't heard in a club for 30 odd years!

When I raved about some of his choices he showed me how many tunes were on his laptop (about

8,000) and said he never does the same set EVER (Again, if you play the same set twice at differing venues, you are lazy and shouldn't be doing the job). That way he stays completely fresh and never

knows what he's gonna play next (I've grown up thinking that was the way, the only way, it could be done). The sheer choice was unbelievable. Plus the gig was brilliant - mainly

because he steered the music so beautifully because he had the CHOICE! (If you can't make a dancefloor work with a 300 box of 7"s or two 12" boxes with 150 tracks in it, again, you shouldn't be getting the booking)

I'm really not being arsey here but if you have the vinyl, maybe Greg and yourself got rid of a lot of it, maybe not - but if you have it, then use it - don't bottom out by making sure you sound like your doing the job, when to me, you ain't.

I hope the Northern scene doesn't go the way of every other scene, whereby people who don't put up, gain.

With respect.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Barry

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Surely Northern Soul was founded on the Motown principal originally wasn't it?

I'd have said it started a whole lot further back than that. Sam Cook f'rinstance, and all those guys under the streetlamp on the corner in the 50s. This is the point where I'd normally start on about it all filtering theough Curtis Mayfield, which always starts arguments, so I'll stop now.

Ah...

[Barry]

I have had this discussion regarding vinyl/cd/mp3 with so many young lads, given - mainly house based chaps, who have entered the black music scene in the last five or so years.

They are of the same mind regarding the obvious 'why pay for it, when you can 'obtain' it' train of thought and I can see their reasoning, in todays material world it makes obvious sense. On a musical level, why should it matter how that sound is conveyed to the dancefloor, just as long as it is conveyed!?

Well it bloody does.

Soul music shouldn't be seen as a hobby, and if it is, I look forward to the day I can go and pick up a pack of glitter, two tubes of Pritt-Fix and a Jimmy Delphs at Hobbycraft.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Barry

[Guest vinylvixen]

Hey Joe,

I meant to ask you - do you know whatever happened to the record library when Polygram (now UMG) took over Decca in the late 70's? The room used to be down at Albert Embankment and it had mint promo copies of every record both UK and US ever issued on London, Decca, Coral etc, etc. I just wondered whether the stuff went into storage when Polygram took over? Might be worth investigating.......

Ian D

LOL - Ian, I've been working for Universal for 6 1/2 years - just call me Mrs Investigator But if I told you any info, I'd have to kill you Hopefully see you Saturday. Jo

[Ian Dewhirst]

I'm really not being arsey here but if you have the vinyl, maybe Greg and yourself got rid of a lot of it, maybe not - but if you have it, then use it - don't bottom out by making sure you sound like your doing the job, when to me, you ain't.

I hope the Northern scene doesn't go the way of every other scene, whereby people who don't put up, gain.

With respect.

Still got most of my vinyl Barry, but since I've over 20,000 records it's not always possible to take even 500 of 'em to gigs - especially 12"'s!

I should make the point here that after over 40 years of collecting, I now prefer to do sets which are very eclectic and necessarily demand a lot of choice. It's a practical issue rather than anything else. I like a lot of music and don't particularly like limiting my choices to what I can physically carry.

So just to make it clear - I LOVE vinyl. However I love music more. Vinyl is a brilliant format but that's really all it is. If I can only get a great tune on MP3 or CD does that make it any less of a tune just because it doesn't happen to be on a 7" piece of plastic?

I've also released more stuff on vinyl then virtually anyone else over the years. I was Head Of A&R for the world's largest vinyl re-issue company - Simply Vinyl from 1997 to 2002 where I put out over 400 albums and 125 12"'s on vinyl, so rest assured I love the format!

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

I have had this discussion regarding vinyl/cd/mp3 with so many young lads, given - mainly house based chaps, who have entered the black music scene in the last five or so years.

They are of the same mind regarding the obvious 'why pay for it, when you can 'obtain' it' train of thought and I can see their reasoning, in todays material world it makes obvious sense. On a musical level, why should it matter how that sound is conveyed to the dancefloor, just as long as it is conveyed!?

Well it bloody does.

Soul music shouldn't be seen as a hobby, and if it is, I look forward to the day I can go and pick up a pack of glitter, two tubes of Pritt-Fix and a Jimmy Delphs at Hobbycraft.

OK Barry, here's a situation to ponder.

Right now I have pretty much everything I want right here, right now, on either vinyl, CD or a digital format - probably over 250,000 tunes in total. Yet, if I elected to use a laptop to play them @ a gig, I would accused of 'selling out', 'not being real', 'being lazy' or 'not committed' etc, etc.

So if I won the lottery tomorrow and then spent £500,000 with Browny, Manship, Brady and E-Bay and amassed exactly the same records on original vinyl would that then make me OK and credible again?

Whaddaya think?

Ian D

[Simon M]

So if I won the lottery tomorrow and then spent £500,000 with Browny, Manship, Brady and E-Bay and amassed exactly the same records on original vinyl would that then make me OK and credible again?

Whaddaya think?

Ian D

Edited November 23, 2007 by Simon M

[KevH]

OK Barry, here's a situation to ponder.

Right now I have pretty much everything I want right here, right now, on either vinyl, CD or a digital format - probably over 250,000 tunes in total. Yet, if I elected to use a laptop to play them @ a gig, I would accused of 'selling out', 'not being real', 'being lazy' or 'not committed' etc, etc.

So if I won the lottery tomorrow and then spent £500,000 with Browny, Manship, Brady and E-Bay and amassed exactly the same records on original vinyl would that then make me OK and credible again?

Whaddaya think?

Ian D

with 250,000 to choose from it'd take you a week to sort out a playlist .Then using a digital format you could send peeps on your address book your set without leaving the house Is this the way forward?.Maybe it might be in a few years.

Your original post was around playing ultra rare stuff at venues.If i had any i'd be very wary where and when,to keep the vinyl quality,but for me...vinyl all the way,blips and all,,KEV.

[spot]

Frank,

I've just read you question at the start of the thread, I know cd's weren't around in the early 70's but I can just imagine your retort should anyone have got behind the decks and said, "Ian, I'm gonna play this tape cos I think I'm damaging my vinyl playing it out". Now picture yourself !!!!!

Just a thought,

Spot.

[mischief]

Slightly related topic I reckon it'd be nice to see say Kent give out the odd exclusive to some 4th division dj's like Ernie or Mischief on here.

They'd be chuffed to bits, playlists in local clubs would get a shot in the arm, and as someone pointed out it takes an age nowadays to break a record anyway so local exposure is as good as any.

ROD

Ady C did that with Little Anne - What Should I do - Yes it was brilliant, couldn't believe I got given a copy. Obviously it was to promote it, but still who ever got a copy played it loads and it was something fresh.

Len.

'SILKS' @ Wellingborough this Sat...etc...etc...

I think this is an excellant idea best one of the thread.. if any one would like to give me any records at all I'd be more than happy.

have a look at the attached picture, imagine turning up at a local do with your playlist allready in your i pod stick it in 1 hour later next dj does the same...

[mischief]

Then using a digital format you could send peeps on your address book your set without leaving the house Is this the way forward?.Maybe it might be in a few years.

KEV.

Pete S already does this in away with hes podcasts... so is he is one step ahead already...

[Ian Dewhirst]

So if I won the lottery tomorrow and then spent £500,000 with Browny, Manship, Brady and E-Bay and amassed exactly the same records on original vinyl would that then make me OK and credible again?

Whaddaya think?

Ian D

The best way to be credible again , is to quickly find 20 to 30 Great unkowns 60's and 70's tracks or even 80's ..ebay is a good place to start good luck!

ps. You got a laptop yet

Simon

Haha LOL! Agreed! I've already got a few so shall I press acetates?

I'm getting the new set-up sometime between Boxing Day and the New Year so I'll let you know what I decided on....

Ian D

[Paul-s]

Just tell Ady i said it was ok

Tell him I gave you the go ahead aswell!

[Ian Dewhirst]

with 250,000 to choose from it'd take you a week to sort out a playlist .Then using a digital format you could send peeps on your address book your set without leaving the house Is this the way forward?.Maybe it might be in a few years.

Your original post was around playing ultra rare stuff at venues.If i had any i'd be very wary where and when,to keep the vinyl quality,but for me...vinyl all the way,blips and all,,KEV.

I think I may have been guilty of a slight exaggeration there Kev! I just worked it out on the train and even with my couple of thousand CD's chucked in the figure's far more likely to be 80-100K thinking about it. Including 7" and 12" B sides as well LOL....

We might just be the last generation of vinyl though. I'm not sure if tomorrow's audience will have the understanding for blips, jumps and scratches......

Ian D

[Simon M]

Haha LOL! Agreed! I've already got a few so shall I press acetates?

I'm getting the new set-up sometime between Boxing Day and the New Year so I'll let you know what I decided on....

Ian D

Have you really Ian ? please send me some samples It would be great if you could just click on any format for a track and have a choice ( well maybe not tape singles ) from vinyl to cd to wav

Choice is good . Soul Sam pays £20 to cut a CD track onto a carver so I suppose we still do have a choice but it costs !!?

ps. the concept of using vinyl to DJ is still king , check out serato and finyl scratch

Edited November 23, 2007 by Simon M

[Ian Dewhirst]

Frank,

I've just read you question at the start of the thread, I know cd's weren't around in the early 70's but I can just imagine your retort should anyone have got behind the decks and said, "Ian, I'm gonna play this tape cos I think I'm damaging my vinyl playing it out". Now picture yourself !!!!!

Just a thought,

Spot.

You're absolutely right Spot. I was young and had rare vinyl blinkers on! I'd have been aghast at playing anything other than pure originals and rarities and I had very little respect for people who played boots or acetates back then. But when we're in an age of £10K rarities I'd certainly be thinking twice about playing 'em out several nights a week that's for sure. Wouldn't be able to afford it for a start! And the last bunch of Northern I've sold have been by far the most difficult with people's expectations of grading being sky high.

I just can't get into conversations about grading and stuff like that. My attitude is the record's rare, it's 40 years old, it got played a lot, so let's be realistic on condition. But, no, people are incredibly anal about condition and grading. So back to why I started the thread - is it worth playing £10K rarities out when they're going to get devalued by maybe 50%?

I pitched this thread because I have similar discussions with numerous people almost every day regarding the death of vinyl and I thought it would be an interesting thread because the Northern scene really will be the last bastion of vinyl I reckon. I thought it would generate some heated debate and it has.

And I certainly wrecked a lot of very decent rarities on those bloody decks at Samanthas which were notorious for carving up vinyl.......

Plus people like your good self would never have had it any other way wouyldja?

Ian D

[Spacehopper]

great debate..these are my opinions...

laptop djs as with SOME cd djs are not collectors so do not have the passion of someone who searches out and spends all of their spare hard earned cash on vinyl...ive seen djs sitting with 2 laptops pressing numbers BORING

as bearsy said if you only have 100 tunes you are thinking about your set all week...if you take yor whole colection ...you wouldnt bother

having money doesnt make you a good dj you can still buy expensive shit...and even having the best tunes doesnt mean you play the best sets !...a lot of the big money tunes have been played to death,there are so many top tunes that are semi known and under £50...most of my tunes i play out are this kinda price(unless i play a scooter do and use boots /reissues etc) and as i have a shit paid job are worth loads to me ..i have a couple in the 3 figure bracket and i still play them...i have some rare as rocking horse shit reggae dubplate acetates but i still play them..even at home!

i understand about not wanting to wear a tune out but records are for playing at the end of the day...and if you have boxes full as most of us do you dont play the same tunes week in week out...do you ?...if you are that worried take your own needles

as for vinyl dieing out it depends on your musical tastes...next time you are in virgin checkout the ever INCREASING vinyl section of indie sevens,picture discs,coloured vinyl...sevens are still huge on the reggae scene both old and new...and i hope and to be honest think they will always be the driving force behind northern

[Russ Vickers]

I think its the same scenario as we have had in the past really, with EMI's, CD's, Mini Disc & now digital formats........all great for personal use or for swapping sounds with people, brilliant for the radio too, but playing out should be from the original format, in the case of unissued material, so long as the correct people have given the ok, whoever they may be, cut it onto what you like to play.

Also prices of records these day's is reasonably relative, back in the day when 'Frank' was DJing, you guys spent a fortune compared with your weekly wage.......mere mortals could never ever really push to these kinda prices, tenacity, luck & good taste hopefully help.......but not much else has changed other than, the scene/collecting is not just predominantly for the working classes anymore, so maybe slightly more disposal income ???.

Russ

[Len]

Just tell Ady i said it was ok

Tell him I gave you the go ahead aswell!

'Double good enough for me! - If anyone 'Diss's' me man for playing it now, I can set the dogs on them without feeling guilty...

If I'm on again at the 100 Club, I'd love to go on after Butch, stick a kent album on and go and dance...Just to see the record bar 'Implode'!!!

Len.

"SILK" Rare Soul Night Midland Road, Wellingborough Northants NN8 1HF Saturday 24th November 2007 DJS - JOHN MANSHIP - MARK BICKNELL - DAVE GREET (YATE) - Plus resident - LENNY DOPSON- Info - 07970 361216

*****PLAYING 'DAMN' GOOD SOUL MUSIC!!!*****

*FREE 'LIVE' CD OF THE EMBANKMENT CLUB'S FINAL HOUR TO FIRST 100 THROUGH THE DOOR.*

[Guest posstot]

i had a RARE oppurtunity to do a spot at a new venue,in pointon le fields/fyldes..some years ago now...i was happily playing the vinyl i had paid money for..to pup fodder at 10.30 11.00 ish. Needless to say not too many were dancin' until over my shoulder the promoter clicked his mouse onto his p.c file to play the elgins heaven must have.. when they all suddenly hit the floor...apart from the fact all we were playing to was pup fodder on a thursday night, to be out done by the click of a button over the top of my next tune; miracles whole lot of shakin..to an unappreciative audience by a so called promoter with a p.c file, for me is a bit wrong....i picked up my ball and left...point being anyone with a p.c can be a d.j without putting in the time effort money and learning.....i think i would appreciate a d.j playing real vinyl to show at least some love has gone into it...not to say there are some valid points to the original post added...what we all have to remember is there are still thousands of quality soul recordings out there on vinyl begging to be played to the masses..which can cost relatively nothing...i refer to neil joneses' point on not needing a box full of ultra rare stuff to get an appreciative/knowledgable crowd dancin...lots of lovin, Mike

[KevH]

I think I may have been guilty of a slight exaggeration there Kev! I just worked it out on the train and even with my couple of thousand CD's chucked in the figure's far more likely to be 80-100K thinking about it. Including 7" and 12" B sides as well LOL....

We might just be the last generation of vinyl though. I'm not sure if tomorrow's audience will have the understanding for blips, jumps and scratches......

Ian D

may well be,lets hope some companies are gonna keep on churning out decks,stylli,belts,slipmats,etc,etc,,,

[Helena]

For the guys who cue burn records I just put it down to bad DJ pactise, I've been DJing 35 years and never cue burned a record, if you didn't spin it backwards it wouldn't happened, I just use my experience and eye to run the disc in and on the odd occassion I get it wrong I use the mic to break the silence.

This is so true. That practise hurts me inside everytime I see it, especially as many use poor needles, not to mention that a lot of people put too much weight on the tonearm and don't think about anti-skating. Madness.

On a brighter note, I read an article recently about how vinyl is again increasing in poularity amongst Swedish hip hop and electronic music dj's. They said they liked the warmer sound of vinyl. And like spacehopper mentioned above, it's getting more trendy for contemporary artists to release their stuff on vinyl too.

[Simon M]

Also I heard 75 % of the world cant play mp3's or even get on the internet ?

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

it's not old stuff but what about the fact that there are loads of 12" and 7" records being released every week be it dance, soul, R & B, Rap, Indie, Rock. Metal, Pop. o beg to differ to anyone who tells me vinyl is dead. i just wish Virgin would stock more vinyl singles which i know my local one stopped stocking them but HMV do a good trade for them

[Guest Bearsy]

You're absolutely right Spot. I was young and had rare vinyl blinkers on! I'd have been aghast at playing anything other than pure originals and rarities and I had very little respect for people who played boots or acetates back then. But when we're in an age of £10K rarities I'd certainly be thinking twice about playing 'em out several nights a week that's for sure. Wouldn't be able to afford it for a start! And the last bunch of Northern I've sold have been by far the most difficult with people's expectations of grading being sky high.

I just can't get into conversations about grading and stuff like that. My attitude is the record's rare, it's 40 years old, it got played a lot, so let's be realistic on condition. But, no, people are incredibly anal about condition and grading. So back to why I started the thread - is it worth playing £10K rarities out when they're going to get devalued by maybe 50%?

I pitched this thread because I have similar discussions with numerous people almost every day regarding the death of vinyl and I thought it would be an interesting thread because the Northern scene really will be the last bastion of vinyl I reckon. I thought it would generate some heated debate and it has.

And I certainly wrecked a lot of very decent rarities on those bloody decks at Samanthas which were notorious for carving up vinyl.......

Plus people like your good self would never have had it any other way wouyldja?

Ian D

that bit stands out most for me on this thread, If you have not got the £10,000 rarities or other so called expensive records to ruin why is it such an issue, for those that do have them that has got to be there choice if they want to slowly devalue them by playing them out to a paying crowd that want to be entertained by these rare originals, some DJs get paid ok and many dont but its not about the money this scene for me its about the passion the venues the people, I would love to own 1,000 bloody expensive rare records and if i owned them i would definately play them out to those that would love to hear them too and not worry about the fact i am so very very slowly devalueing them,this music should be heard in the format its was produced on by the people that really want to hear them,

Bearsy,

[Paul-s]

So just to make it clear - I LOVE vinyl. However I love music more. Vinyl is a brilliant format but that's really all it is.

Ian D

...then I guess we have a totally different concept of the importance of 'brilliant' and 'love'. The wear in vinyl, the marks, the sound, catalogues a history that goes beyond just the piece of music....its a tactile memory...an audible history. If you speak to people who collect and play it with love and passion, they can usually tell you stories, trials or tribulations associated with each record. Ive never really encountered the same passion when being shown around someones cd collection....its usually DEVOID of any love or care! When I see and hear a dj, a good one, I can feel the respect and care they have for the music they are playing, coming through the vinyl and their attitude towards it. His/her pride or joy at actually playing and sharing something that they may have been looking for, for a very long time! You dont really get that from some lack lustre, chair bound, lazy, charlatan, downloading onto his laptop and pressing play at the event. I love hearing records crackle or jump now and again at night's...that way , I know its live and visceral! The Dj is still there, not at the bar with his ipod on shuffle!

[Mark R]

...........but playing out should be from the original format..........

Russ

I really don't want to get involved in this thread, but, based on the above statement, which you nearly all seem to hold with............why is it OK for someone to cut a CD track (assuming that's the tracks original format) to a vinyl record for playing out?? Aside from CD players not being provided at most NS venues, of course. I mean, in terms of the "original format" thing, is this acceptable?

I love reading all this!!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest]

I really don't want to get involved in this thread, but, based on the above statement, which you nearly all seem to hold with............why is it OK for someone to cut a CD track (assuming that's the tracks original format) to a vinyl record for playing out?? Aside from CD players not being provided at most NS venues, of course. I mean, in terms of the "original format" thing, is this acceptable?

I love reading all this!!

Cheers,

Mark R

Off course its ok,they are promoting the cd arent they the one they own but make multiple(spellin`) copys for proffit is out of order.if it become a underground hit because someone play it out it`ll sell more cds and may even warrent a propper vinyl release.

[Mark R]

Off course its ok,they are promoting the cd arent they the one they own but make multiple(spellin`) copys for proffit is out of order.if it become a underground hit because someone play it out it`ll sell more cds and may even warrent a propper vinyl release.

But what if I find a new (old!) 7", burn it to CD to protect it from wear, and play that out at a gig, is that different or still acceptable?? I own an original copy............just promoting something I own????

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest]

But what if I find a new (old!) 7", burn it to CD to protect it from wear, and play that out at a gig, is that different or still acceptable?? I own an original copy............just promoting something I own????

Cheers,

Mark R

Thats ok by me Mark,but you wont get the satisfaction of whatching it go round

[Mark R]

Thats ok by me Mark,but you wont get the satisfaction of whatching it go round

Can't argue with that Ken.............I'm actually in love with vinyl as much as you guys, but it's not the be all and end all for me

Cheers,

Mark R

[Paul-s]

But what if I find a new (old!) 7", burn it to CD to protect it from wear, and play that out at a gig, is that different or still acceptable?? I own an original copy............just promoting something I own????

Cheers,

Mark R

NOT ACCEPTABLE, for me...I want to hear the vinyl...I cant believe people cant tell the difference!! Records weren't made to be protected from play..Enjoy it today, you might not be around tomorrow. Its a visceral medium...Also, how do i know you own the original copy?! Ha!

[Guest]

Can't argue with that Ken.............I'm actually in love with vinyl as much as you guys, but it's not the be all and end all for me

Cheers,

Mark R

I think that goes for most of us,just wouldnt admit it only trouble i have with CDs and whatevers his will it replaice the record deck at clubs i hope not.

[Guest]

NOT ACCEPTABLE, for me...I want to hear the vinyl...I cant believe people cant tell the difference!! Records weren't made to be protected from play..Enjoy it today, you might not be around tomorrow. Its a visceral medium...Also, how do i know you own the original copy?! Ha!

Theres a solution to this,burn his track to CD or whatever then send to V`carvers

[Paul-s]

Theres a solution to this,burn his track to CD or whatever then send to V`carvers

Very true!

[Wilxy]

A very thought provoking thread with, quite diverse views, but from a personal perspective, the whole vinyl thing gives me the buzz, and I will travel distances to listen to vinyl (dependent on certain criteria obviously) but I cannot percieve going to a venue and "looking" at MP3 or similar downloaded formats in micro sales boxes, or travelling distances to hear music in any other format than vinyl......the thought frightens me.....must be an age thing....ah well I'll get my coat and take my ball home....For me it's vinyl or nowt,