Playing Rare Originals @ Venues: Does It Make Sense?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Sounds a bit like the plot of a Kevin Costner flop in the mold of 'Waterworld' or 'The Postman'. Haven't deejays always striven to entertain? What actually is the scene's true ethos? And even if if such a distinctive spirit exists in reality,is it not simply antagonistic to the entertainment rationale? Also, if this perceived realignment has rendered vinyl a red herring, then how can money have become the sine qua non of the abilty to deejay? I would have thought that if you indeed want to stay within the scene's true ethos, and continue to entertain , then taste alone will no more allow you to be a good deejay than a beggar's fondess for filet mignon will put the stuff in his bowl. It' only by kicking the scene's true ethos - which really belongs to another time and another place, and really has little relevance today - into touch that you can begin to forge this soulful brave new world.

Hence the thread Billy! I suppose a lot of people are saying how will the scene mutate and survive into the future unless new technology is embraced at some point.

I'm probably one of the few people who could ask the question because I'm not really on the scene on a regular basis these days, I work in the music biz which is dying on it's arse and I can take an overview on things which may not be possible for people who are more involved in the scene.

Some really interesting viewpoints coming out though and definitely food for thought.....

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

I can't disagree that it might become too tempting for some to just hit the 'PLAY' button against a 60 minute collection of big hitters, but where's the imagination and fun in that? Most people would see straight through it.

In response to your initial comment I have to disagree though. Who wouldn't like to have a £100k DJ box to pick from? But you certainly don't need one. Using the right records, presented professionally and mindful of the crowd you are seeking to entertain, it's easily possible to put together a box of records with no single 45 costing more than £25, and still give a good account of yourself in most venues.

That's what sets apart a DJ from someone with a laptop and a wish-list.

Neil Jones

I wasn't suggesting that anyone could just hit a play button Neil - far from it. I was actually suggesting that some DJ's would benefit by having a choice of several thousand tunes to choose from rather than being confined to what they can physically carry. There could be that special moment where a DJ wished he had brought a certain tune because the circumstances could be exactly right to play that tune - maybe for the first time ever. I can't tell you the amount of times I wished I could have brought my whole collection to a (none Northern) venue and kicked myself because I couldn't. But I can now!

Also I'm not sure how 'rated' a DJ with no records worth more than £25 each would be in this day and age. I think the scene necessarily has to have the huge rarities and one-off unknowns to provide the excitement and anticipation doesn't it?

I guess it's more down to the taste of the person who has either great records or a laptop, or possibly in the future, both!

Best,

Ian D

[Len]

Being that the scene is based on obscure, rare, hard to find records is not the whole ethos of Rare Soul DJ'ing in the true sense of the word simply based on playing authentic original records? I take your points about spoiling records by playing them on sub standard decks etc. but in this day and age there should be no excuse for second rate equipment to be used anyway, a decent set of 1210's with top of the range Stanton's does help.

I still think vinyl is king for most of the scenes DJ's, although this might sound rather glib in my opinion records are for playing rare or not otherwise what's the point in collecting them in the first place? Of course it's important to preserve them but sorry I can't just look at them in boxes totally pointless.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

If the scene gave up playing vinyl - It would be the end for me. The whole thing is built on finding them etc. Play lists are copied by other dj's anyway - if it was digital it would be too easy for them.

Len.

"SILK" Rare Soul Night Midland Road, Wellingborough Northants NN8 1HF Saturday 24th November 2007 DJS - JOHN MANSHIP - MARK BICKNELL - DAVE GREET (YATE) - Plus resident - LENNY DOPSON- Info - 07970 361216

*****PLAYING 'DAMN' GOOD SOUL MUSIC!!!*****

*FREE 'LIVE' CD OF THE EMBANKMENT CLUB'S FINAL HOUR TO FIRST 100 THROUGH THE DOOR.*

[Dave Thorley]

It wuz that Pointer Sisters boot thread which got me going! Honest Guvnor!

'The Strange World Of Northern Soul', could make a film out of it

[Ernie Andrews]

I consider myself as a league 2 DJ - Im never going to be in the premiership and therefore I have to work hard to produce adecent set.

I practice at home regularly with the records Ive got to come up with a list of 25 records that I could interchange to keep people happy. This is hours of enjoyable work and yes it wears the record down but most people buy a car to drive not park in a garage for years. To me a laptop or I pod is for personal use and not to be used for the masses. Ifind it hard to see how when maybe your sets no going to well that you trawl through 10,000 tracks just to get your set back in the groove and I dont see the intrinsic merit of doing it as opposed to having abox of 200 records and quickly raking through for that tune to get things sweet. You feel elated when it works and is a vindication of that collecting fever. Laptop? Down load 10,000 records in a week Collect 1000 records in 10 years, The thrill of the find, the chase, the catch , the next one and link that to a djs set, thats what lifes all about not sterile digital robotics, No emotion , no feeling!

If you look at avery worn teddybear you know its been loved. if you see one thats been stuck away then you know a child has been deprived. Records are to be played and loved

[Guest outonthefloor]

I consider myself as a league 2 DJ - Im never going to be in the premiership and therefore I have to work hard to produce adecent set.

I practice at home regularly with the records Ive got to come up with a list of 25 records that I could interchange to keep people happy. This is hours of enjoyable work and yes it wears the record down but most people buy a car to drive not park in a garage for years. To me a laptop or I pod is for personal use and not to be used for the masses. Ifind it hard to see how when maybe your sets no going to well that you trawl through 10,000 tracks just to get your set back in the groove and I dont see the intrinsic merit of doing it as opposed to having abox of 200 records and quickly raking through for that tune to get things sweet. You feel elated when it works and is a vindication of that collecting fever. Laptop? Down load 10,000 records in a week Collect 1000 records in 10 years, The thrill of the find, the chase, the catch , the next one and link that to a djs set, thats what lifes all about not sterile digital robotics, No emotion , no feeling!

If you look at avery worn teddybear you know its been loved. if you see one thats been stuck away then you know a child has been deprived. Records are to be played and loved

Im not a dj so my opinion probably doesn't count for anything but the hairs stood up on the back of my neck when i read this.

Excellent Post and spot on IMVHO

Helen

xxxxx

[paultp]

Ian,

Your question raises the thorny issue of whether the Northern Soul scene (or whatever people want to call it) is about the records or the music.

Of course it makes sense to play the music from the most convenient source but then owning the records becomes a secondary, possibly marginalised, activity. Some people would argue that this would be a good thing because it would stop the ridiculous prices being paid for records because of the lore that only originals can be played at an event.

The thing is though that the lore is still in place and probably the only acceptable way to play from a laptop or similar in today's scene would be to carry a box of records and (as someone else said) hold up the original during each tune. Incidentally a similar thing does go on already with people carrying originals and playing bootlegs to protect the original's quality and thus value.

I actually support your suggestion because I think it would bring more diversity to a scene that is becoming polarised around ridiculously expensive records. The playing of lesser priced records is becoming frowned upon because everyone can have them, cheaper records no longer sell because the record buyers are now concentrating on the higher priced items so they can DJ.

I doubt the scene as a whole would accept that playing the music rather than the original record is more important because it has grown up around the premise of owning the records being played. The fact that formats have moved on is ignored.

As time has gone by owning the rarest and most expensive records is seen to give people kudos, social standing almost. My missus still takes the piss out of me after hearing someone in the 100 club queue in the late 90's say in hushed almost reverential tones "He's got The Cashmeres" whilst pointing to someone further up in the queue. Sounds like an irritable rash if you don't understand.

I've made a similar point before about buying bootlegs, I don't see the point these days as you can get almost any sound you want on CD or mp3 so why buy a bootleg? The answer is so that you can play the vinyl without paying the money for the original, you can have a record collection (of sorts). This made sense when the format of the day was vinyl, it isn't any more but people still buy bootlegs.

I still buy records for my modest collection, mostly cheap but possibly once a month something a bit more pricey. I buy and sell records I don't like or already have to fund this hobby but I'm finding this more and more difficult to do as the cheaper stuff is difficult to sell as I've aleady said. This will stop me buying expensive records because I feel my hobby should be self-funding. Hopefully I'm not the only one because this situation should cause record prices to come down in the future, already some sell-offs are apparent on UK eBay (and on this forum) so I can sit tight and wait untill the rush starts and then carry on my collecting for less outlay.

So, in short, I hope your suggestion is taken up across the land then people will not need the records to DJ, the scene will prosper as younger people will discover the music, record collecting will be for anoraks not look-at-me DJ's and conversely DJing will be done by DJ's.

Errrr ..... England will win the World cup, America will become a pacifist nation, We will have politicians we respect etc etc

Cheers

Paul

Edited November 22, 2007 by paultp

[Paul-s]

Mmm. I see your point, but on the other hand it seems to me that you'd need at least £100K to be a top jock these days based on values alone wouldn't it?

The bigger choice option would surely widen the playlists and then it would be down to someone's impeccable taste that decides whether they're successful or not surely?

Ian D

You only need £100k if you have no ears, feet and imagination. People are open to 'GOOD' music, whatever the price. The 'Big Tune' dj's seem to give up trying a lot of the time and end up actually 'killing' the tune itself, through repeated sets! Never trust a dj who doesn't have some cheap tunes in his box! Cheap doesn't equal crap. It just means the dealers haven't yet got on to hyping them up for a ready made 'Big Tune' market. I can't really believe this discussion is going on....the scene is about vinyl, I dont want to pay a tenner to hear some lazy 'soul less' twat playing from a lap top or an mp3. Its the soul and efforts of those dj's that search out, almost on a daily basis, new and forgoptten tunes, that makes their set, one of passion and integrity. Not the same deal as some passive lumpen knob head, loading up his laptop over a mug of tea! Just my opinion, of course. 'The world's gone mad'!

[Dave Thorley]

I have mixed feelings on this subject. When I go out and DJ I personally play all original wax if i'm doing a northern/modern 45 type event. But do use CDR's if i'm doing a contemporary venue.

But I also feel the rare original only thing has got out of hand over the years.

Someone said earlier that our scene was built on rare soul records. It's this use of rare and original only that I have a problem with. The scene as I see it was built on underexposed, harder to find soul records; yes some of them have turn out to be very hard to find.

But back then, there seemed to be a greater focus on finding new things and getting them played. I would spend hours on the stage of many events watching top dj's playing there sets, the rest on the dance floor dancing badly, but having a great time. Many top dj's would play the odd acetate, so they could bring the latest indemand tune to their venue. I watched while all the top names pulled out the odd acetate, Richard Searling, Pep, Colin Curtis and later Ian Clark, in the early days I have to admit I played the odd thing too. When Ian first got Frank Beverly-Because of my heart, he cut me one. There was an etiquette to this, I would never play it at any event where we both were working or where anyone else who had one worked, back then we tended to know what each had in their boxes.

In some cases where only one copy had turned up, records would never been as big as they were if some dj's did not played the track on acetate. The dj's I admired then were the ones that put together great sets, found 'new sounds'.

Today this focus on original wax only, although understandable with the price some go for, can be be prohibitive to new things gaining acceptance. Also through the soul police approach, only the guys with the big check books get a look in, pushing out new more inventive young dj's cuz they can't afford the top prices. So what we have today is alot of dj's who can't dj but have boxes stuffed full of tunes they have seen other people break, or know are classic dancefloor winners filling the sets at venues. DJing has to be more than just the formate.

Extreme example, I would pay any day of the week to see Sam play off all MP3 or CDR, cuz he is a true dj, inventive, bags of enthusiasm, a true entertainer. Opposite, I went to a venue the other week a dj came on I have never scene before, the promoter said, "This will be interesting I've never seen him dj". I couldn't believe it he had booked someone to entertain his customers, he had never seen. The guy came on played some stunning, supa rare tracks in the wrong order, mumbled in monotone between each track, so each track was in fact a suprise. and nearly killed the night.

Whats the point of all this. Ian's question has some merit, get back to the values of the early days of the scene, the best dj's/entertainers playing the best music. General spirit of original wax where possible, but don't let that hold back dj's playing exciting inventive sets. Or heavens forbid, we could end up with guarenteed floor filler only please nights, no one chancing a new tune. We have too many dj's on now who think that they are good cuz they have purchased all the 'Right tunes' for big bucks, slag off new dj's that have to be more inventive about what and how they play. Promoters that bow to the pressure of these check book dj's, so we might as well have software which picks random classic tune, with phases like Stafford, Wigan in between, as thats what they are doing anyway.

Everyone will be glad to know I'm starting to feel better and these outbusts should subside soon

Edited November 22, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Little-stevie]

The original vinyl ideal is a nice one but the scene has changed so much since 'the rules' were handed down on stone tablets that I'm not sure it makes much sense any more.

The proportion of deejays to punters must be so much higher now, than say 1975, that it's actually ridiculous. Out of that vast community of deejays the proportion who try to play sets of shall we say "lesser known" records is actually miniscule. It takes about five years to make a previously unknown record massive on a national scale whereas in 1975 it could often be done in the course of a weekend. The end result: lots of deejay spots revolving around the sounds that the top deejays were playing five, ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years ago and wrist-slashing ennui.

Records themselves are now ridiculously expensive. No disrespect to the guy selling Mel Britt, Cecil Washington etc. on ebay right now, but someone could buy all those for a great deal of money and produce a deejay spot which could bore the scene to tears for decades on end.

My answer is as stated before on Soul Source. It's radical: less events, less deejays, an emphasis on deejays trying to entertain and strive for the best within a framework of the scene's true ethos. That ethos has been re-shaped to suit peoples' need to deejay. The original vinyl thing has become a bit of a red herring in that realignment. Let's face it, all you need to be a deejay these days is money. What you need to be a good deejay cannot be bought with money. It's called taste.

So so true mate.... Great post indeed..

[Simon M]

I dont think you will ever see Sam play off CD's let alone MP3's and laptops Dave

Edited November 22, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest rachel]

I consider myself as a league 2 DJ - Im never going to be in the premiership and therefore I have to work hard to produce adecent set.

I practice at home regularly with the records Ive got to come up with a list of 25 records that I could interchange to keep people happy. This is hours of enjoyable work and yes it wears the record down but most people buy a car to drive not park in a garage for years. To me a laptop or I pod is for personal use and not to be used for the masses. Ifind it hard to see how when maybe your sets no going to well that you trawl through 10,000 tracks just to get your set back in the groove and I dont see the intrinsic merit of doing it as opposed to having abox of 200 records and quickly raking through for that tune to get things sweet. You feel elated when it works and is a vindication of that collecting fever. Laptop? Down load 10,000 records in a week Collect 1000 records in 10 years, The thrill of the find, the chase, the catch , the next one and link that to a djs set, thats what lifes all about not sterile digital robotics, No emotion , no feeling!

If you look at avery worn teddybear you know its been loved. if you see one thats been stuck away then you know a child has been deprived. Records are to be played and loved

Exactly!

[Ian Dewhirst]

'The Strange World Of Northern Soul', could make a film out of it

Now there's an idea.......fancy financing it Dave?

Ian D

[Simon M]

Now there's an idea.......fancy financing it Dave?

Ian D

last year Cozzer said theres one comimg out Ian

Edited November 22, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest vinylvixen]

The thrill of the find, the chase, the catch , the next one and link that to a djs set, thats what lifes all about not sterile digital robotics, No emotion , no feeling!

Records are to be played and loved

All my tunes that I play out on the Northern or Mod scene are on vinyl. That's how I purchased them - CDs weren't around until the early 80's - I remember the record rep demonstrating the first CD to us in the record shop - indestructable, impervious to fag burns and flick knife gouges - I kid you not - all part of the demonstration....However, I'm used to vinyl - maybe it's my age. I can see the needle in the record - if I want to change what's on the second deck whilst the first one's still playing, I can do that. I couldn't faff around with a CD, press buttons, find the track, fanny around with the pause button....all too tecchy during those vital 2".30 secs that you've got to make decisions in....I'm sure if I was 16 again and just started dj'ing, I would be far more adept and mp3's and CDs wouldn't hold any fear for me....but I know where I am with vinyl. It's never let me down and I'm comfortable with it as an instrument to work with....my records are like old friends, reliable and never changing. They belong in the same unlined cardboard sleeves that I put them in years ago and that's where they'll stay...until I put them on the decks and release the music that's contained in the grooves. Works every time....the original topic title is 'Playing Rare Vinyl @ Venues - does it make sense'....the vinyl that I've got has only become rarer over time - purchased the Tempos on Diamond Jim 'I'll never forget' for £3 - what's it worth now?? I don't care....it's a piece of vinyl to be played and appreciated. Playing vinyl makes sense to me only because I can't be arsed to replace everything with CD....does that make sense??

I visited PTP the other week and my partner, Phil, was with me. Me and Paul were playing tunes to each other and Phil had found a John Manship guide on Paul's desk. He was flicking through it and said 'how would you tell if an acetate was an original'...like identical twins me and Paul said 'the smell - you'd smell it'....it was at that point that I realised that the world of vinyl is a very strange place for an 'outsider'....Phil hasn't been the same since

Edited November 22, 2007 by vinylvixen

[mischief]

DJ's = Disc Jockeys

Laptops = Lap Jockeys - No thank you

On a more serious note... if Ernie calls himself a 2nd league dj, where does that put me right down there some where, but I personally love to play original vinyl..

I don't have big money records as I have a mortgage to pay.. but I do have a box of decent tunes and every record I buy I buy to dj with.. torn labels, bit scuffed but plays fine "good to dj with" etc.. but all 100% original.

When I am out I don't need to discuss the original v Boot and now MP3 format. why because I play what I feel is right for me no one else.. I know most the dancers don't care, some venues may not care but unfortunatly when I dj I do.. its my own standards no one elses, i'm not showing it off but it is my collection and i'm proud of it.. (some is shite I admit that)

I always think as long as the dj playing his or her set is happy with what format they are playing it on then that is up to them.. but I do feel when some one who is playing boots (now mp3's) and they try to justify it to me they are not doing it because I care, they are trying to explain it to thier self..

Saying this I do think there should be CD players at venues if a track has come out on CD and not on vinyl.. not that I carry them but dj's should get the choice, just so the music moves on...

[Guest vinylvixen]

On a more serious note... if Ernie calls himself a 2nd league dj, where does that put me right down there some where,

Perhaps we should start another thread - If DJ's were Football Teams, which teams would they be?'.....the suggestion of leagues would mean that unless dj's played a good set all season, they'd be up for relegation Now there's a thought....which team would Butch be - and Mischief, which team are you most like? Me, I'd opt for a team that Stanley Matthews played for or a team that wears a black and white strip like Everton Mints somewhere in the 3rd division Totally offside and off topic...but a thought Jo

Edited November 22, 2007 by vinylvixen

[Guest dundeedavie]

Not at all mate. Having an opinion's what this forum is all about. And I understand your point entirely. But you could still have exclusive MP3's couldn't you? Or MP3 cover-ups for that matter. The tunes would still have to be discovered in the first place.

I just think that I'd rather have my entire collection to choose from on a laptop, then I could play what I wanted, whenever I wanted and not be limited to just a box of records if you see what I mean...

Also it could be a prudent move to think about the future. How many decks do you see these days which still have the 78rpm option? I know Blues Collectors who refuse to listen to any other format but they'd be hard-pressed to find any equipment to accomodate 'em these days LOL....

Ian D

finding the equipment is easy , i use numark tt200's with ortofon concordes fitted with ortofon 78 stylii and could do a whole set on 78 if i felt the urge and the sound is bloody amazing ...so in essence playing 78's is very very possible if that is your thing so that argument is void

Davie

[Stubbsy]

Being that the scene is based on obscure, rare, hard to find records is not the whole ethos of Rare Soul DJ'ing in the true sense of the word simply based on playing authentic original records? I take your points about spoiling records by playing them on sub standard decks etc. but in this day and age there should be no excuse for second rate equipment to be used anyway, a decent set of 1210's with top of the range Stanton's does help.

I still think vinyl is king for most of the scenes DJ's, although this might sound rather glib in my opinion records are for playing rare or not otherwise what's the point in collecting them in the first place? Of course it's important to preserve them but sorry I can't just look at them in boxes totally pointless.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Summed up perfectly Mr Bicknell !

[Wiganer1]

Just seen a post in another thread which reminded me of an earlier post I made which was buried away in another subject so I thought I'd revive it just out of curiosity.

Namely: does it make any sense to play highly rare and valuable original records @ different venues these days?

Surely it doesn't make a lot of sense to play impossibly rare records out at every gig these days does it? It's one way to wear your records out too fast. Especially styrene pressings - I ruined 2 copies of Morris Chestnut, 2 Tobi Legends, 1 Gerri Grainger, I Al Jones and countless others that way, so if you now have 'em in your collection and get annoyed from the hiss and spluttering at the beginning, then you probably have a deejay's old copy!

Also, the way things are moving these days, even CD's are becoming out-of-date - the growth is now in digital formats as much as it kills me to say it. But, from a personal point of view, I think it makes more sense for a DJ to have 10,000 songs at his disposal so he can play what he wants without being limited to a single box of records. Maybe that could be one way to brighten up the playlists possibly?

I know the Northern scene is naturally dominated by records but I'm not sure how relevent actually owning the original vinyl is going to be in years to come. Right now it's like a 'badge of honour' to own the original vinyl but how many of the crowd would be aware whether a track was played on the original vinyl or on CD? Less than 1% I reckon.........Also, the CD version would probably sound better than a well-played vinyl copy I'm saddened to say.....

Don't get me wrong - I love vinyl as much as anyone - I still have a couple of rooms full of it, but I don't see what's so wrong with having the choice of playing both vinyl and CD/Digital. Does it make, say, an unreleased Kent track any better by playing an acetate of it, when it was probably cut from a CD in the first place? Also, I notice that several DJ's on other scenes are playing custom-pressed double-sided copies of their own rarities on bespoke one-off new vinyl pressings. So they're not playing the originals, they're playing re-dubbed versions of their own rare records on a newer piece of plastic. Well, if you do that, then surely it's got be easier to carry 10,000 tunes on a laptop hasn't it?

I notice this is happening more and more with DJ's who play internationally. Freight charges, customs and even foreign Taxes are killing 'em if they carry vinyl these days. Also, it's a risk - would you risk your vinyl collection to baggage handlers around the world? Especially Northern collections! Or do you take 100 records only and limit your choice?

I'm writing this at the time when, in the mainstream market, commercially, the vinyl format is now just about dead and the CD will be dead from mid next year in my opinion (going by the annual declines, store closures and distributors going bust).

This'll be a hiding to nothing here, but is it really worth playing that mega valuable rarity out and diminishing it's quality and lifespan with every play? At least when I wore out my vinyl copies in the mid 70's I could replace 'em a lot cheaper than now........

So, as probably the pre-eminent vinyl collectors forum in the world, what are the views of Soul Source members?

Ian D

=======

just attended a brill niter last weekend

great mix of dj's old and new playing great records to a packed floor all night

the scene doesnt need cds/laptops/mp3s

we need to keep the scene special like its always been

appreciate your views on the vynil by the way,,if a 45 has cue burns you get another one - easy!

[Paul-s]

Being that the scene is based on obscure, rare, hard to find records is not the whole ethos of Rare Soul DJ'ing in the true sense of the word simply based on playing authentic original records? I take your points about spoiling records by playing them on sub standard decks etc. but in this day and age there should be no excuse for second rate equipment to be used anyway, a decent set of 1210's with top of the range Stanton's does help.

I still think vinyl is king for most of the scenes DJ's, although this might sound rather glib in my opinion records are for playing rare or not otherwise what's the point in collecting them in the first place? Of course it's important to preserve them but sorry I can't just look at them in boxes totally pointless.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

TRUE Mark. Its not the rare vinyl being played thats the danger...its the generally Sh..te sound systems and decks that seem to be a fixture on the scene....that ruin the records. HEY, maybe we just need promoters to get up to date with their equipment!? If the vinyl wears out, you shouldn't have played it week in , week out for years on end!HA!

[Ernie Andrews]

DJ's = Disc Jockeys

Laptops = Lap Jockeys - No thank you

On a more serious note... if Ernie calls himself a 2nd league dj, where does that put me right down there some where, but I personally love to play original vinyl..

I don't have big money records as I have a mortgage to pay.. but I do have a box of decent tunes and every record I buy I buy to dj with.. torn labels, bit scuffed but plays fine "good to dj with" etc.. but all 100% original.

When I am out I don't need to discuss the original v Boot and now MP3 format. why because I play what I feel is right for me no one else.. I know most the dancers don't care, some venues may not care but unfortunatly when I dj I do.. its my own standards no one elses, i'm not showing it off but it is my collection and i'm proud of it.. (some is shite I admit that)

I always think as long as the dj playing his or her set is happy with what format they are playing it on then that is up to them.. but I do feel when some one who is playing boots (now mp3's) and they try to justify it to me they are not doing it because I care, they are trying to explain it to thier self..

Saying this I do think there should be CD players at venues if a track has come out on CD and not on vinyl.. not that I carry them but dj's should get the choice, just so the music moves on...

Actually i SAID league 2 which is the fourth tier Premership,championship. league 1 and league 2- Your probably above me in the championship

I was just trying to point out we all have rare records and play them and therefore wear & tear but not to play them however rare and costly in my opinion is a crime. Put them on and release the music, dont keep it imprisoned in those grooves!

[Dave Moore]

I'm probably one of the few people who could ask the question because I'm not really on the scene on a regular basis these days, I work in the music biz which is dying on it's arse and I can take an overview on things which may not be possible for people who are more involved in the scene.

Ian D

Hi Ian,

The connection between the two are tenous at best though. People with a 'vested' interest in the the 'music biz' and who are peripheral to the 'scene' are the ones who actually have the myopic vison in my opinion, and not the scene itself. It's an underground music scene. Sure it's developed along the way but primarily it's survived standing seperate from the 'music biz'. It's survived C90s, Laser discs, bootlegs, Cds MP3s, iPods, laptop Djs, and will continue to survive whatever is thrown at it. A catalogue of CD releases that are a drop in the ocean for the Big Five hardly contsitute a relationship between 'The Scene' and 'The Biz'.

Your overview is based on an appreciation of only one criteria - the music business, it's technological development and it's need to reinvent itself every now and then to continue to hoodwink it's customers into buying into what the idustry presents for it's own ends. The main point (or ethos, the word that many people band about), of the scene in the first place was/is to find our own route and AVOID the mainstream 'music biz" surely.

"Change for change sake is not always a good thing."

"If it ain't broke - don't fix it"

Let things develop at their own natural pace.

Etc Etc.

Just because a handful of wannabes start shouting from the rooftops that they are the 'saviours of the rare soul scene' and if they don't get their way it's all gonna fall apart, stagnate and die don't actually make it so.

[mischief]

Actually i SAID league 2 which is the fourth tier Premership,championship. league 1 and league 2- Your probably above me in the championship

I was just trying to point out we all have rare records and play them and therefore wear & tear but not to play them however rare and costly in my opinion is a crime. Put them on and release the music, dont keep it imprisoned in those grooves!

I don't want to be above anyone = pressure and then that will be the fun side gone

[Dave Moore]

Sorry, pushed wrong button there, post upladed before I answered Ian's question of Playing Rare Originals @ Venues: Does It Make Sense?

My answer would be: 'Of course it does." Absolutely 100%. It always will for the majority of collectors I reckon. It's what fuels the music, the two go hand in hand. During the late eighties when the scene shrunk down it was even MORE so. the bottom line is that it's the collectors who are always at the heart of the scene. When this shrinkage happens again in a few years, it'll be the same faces still collecting, still travelling, still on the hunt for the next 45, still at the heart of it all whatever shape the scene takes.

[Len]

Someone said earlier that our scene was built on rare soul records. It's this use of rare and original only that I have a problem with.

Maybe I should of said "The scene was built on finding / playing the original 'Format' only"...'Caus' that's what I meant! - Rare or not...Just 'Good' - That 's all that matters!

Great point about rather seeing Soul Sam play off MP3 than seeing a 'collecter' DJ with all his rare stuff not managing to entertain. In fact I'd rather see Soul Sam sing than that...Now that would be entertaining...I've seen him dance on stage with your Mrs Dave!!! - So who knows, it could happen!!!

Len.

"SILK" Rare Soul Night Midland Road, Wellingborough Northants NN8 1HF Saturday 24th November 2007 DJS - JOHN MANSHIP - MARK BICKNELL - DAVE GREET (YATE) - Plus resident - LENNY DOPSON- Info - 07970 361216

*****PLAYING 'DAMN' GOOD SOUL MUSIC!!!*****

*FREE 'LIVE' CD OF THE EMBANKMENT CLUB'S FINAL HOUR TO FIRST 100 THROUGH THE DOOR.*

Edited November 22, 2007 by LEN

[Dave Thorley]

Someone said earlier that our scene was built on rare soul records. It's this use of rare and original only that I have a problem with.

Maybe I should of said "The scene was built on finding / playing the original 'Format' only"...'Caus' that's what I meant! - Rare or not...Just 'Good' - That 's all that matters!

Great point about rather seeing Soul Sam play off MP3 than seeing a 'collecter' DJ with all his rare stuff not managing to entertain. In fact I'd rather see Soul Sam sing than that...Now that would be entertaining...I've seen him dance on stage with your Mrs Dave!!! - So who knows, it could happen!!!

Len.

"SILK" Rare Soul Night Midland Road, Wellingborough Northants NN8 1HF Saturday 24th November 2007 DJS - JOHN MANSHIP - MARK BICKNELL - DAVE GREET (YATE) - Plus resident - LENNY DOPSON- Info - 07970 361216

*****PLAYING 'DAMN' GOOD SOUL MUSIC!!!*****

*FREE 'LIVE' CD OF THE EMBANKMENT CLUB'S FINAL HOUR TO FIRST 100 THROUGH THE DOOR.*

Ha Up Len

Now your night is more like the real thing, new stuff, old stuff people playing with passion and people having fun.

[Len]

Ha Up Len

Now your night is more like the real thing, new stuff, old stuff people playing with passion and people having fun.

"SILK" Rare Soul Night Midland Road, Wellingborough Northants NN8 1HF Saturday 24th November 2007 DJS - JOHN MANSHIP - MARK BICKNELL - DAVE GREET (YATE) - Plus resident - LENNY DOPSON- Info - 07970 361216

*****PLAYING 'DAMN' GOOD SOUL MUSIC!!!*****

*FREE 'LIVE' CD OF THE EMBANKMENT CLUB'S FINAL HOUR TO FIRST 100 THROUGH THE DOOR.*

[Russ Vickers]

The influential Dj's have the confidence in their taste to play tracks that are overlooked/unknown and are likely to be less expensive.

The sheep come along later and have to pay the big bucks.

Hasn't it always been that way?

Derek

I think this is the point isnt it............taste everytime methinks.

Russ

[pikeys dog]

anyone playing MP3s should be made to walk the plank....

[Eddie Hubbard]

I have mixed feelings on this subject. When I go out and DJ I personally play all original wax if i'm doing a northern/modern 45 type event. But do use CDR's if i'm doing a contemporary venue.

But I also feel the rare original only thing has got out of hand over the years.

Someone said earlier that our scene was built on rare soul records. It's this use of rare and original only that I have a problem with. The scene as I see it was built on underexposed, harder to find soul records; yes some of them have turn out to be very hard to find.

But back then, there seemed to be a greater focus on finding new things and getting them played. I would spend hours on the stage of many events watching top dj's playing there sets, the rest on the dance floor dancing badly, but having a great time. Many top dj's would play the odd acetate, so they could bring the latest indemand tune to their venue. I watched while all the top names pulled out the odd acetate, Richard Searling, Pep, Colin Curtis and later Ian Clark, in the early days I have to admit I played the odd thing too. When Ian first got Frank Beverly-Because of my heart, he cut me one. There was an etiquette to this, I would never play it at any event where we both were working or where anyone else who had one worked, back then we tended to know what each had in their boxes.

In some cases where only one copy had turned up, records would never been as big as they were if some dj's did not played the track on acetate. The dj's I admired then were the ones that put together great sets, found 'new sounds'.

Today this focus on original wax only, although understandable with the price some go for, can be be prohibitive to new things gaining acceptance. Also through the soul police approach, only the guys with the big check books get a look in, pushing out new more inventive young dj's cuz they can't afford the top prices. So what we have today is alot of dj's who can't dj but have boxes stuffed full of tunes they have seen other people break, or know are classic dancefloor winners filling the sets at venues. DJing has to be more than just the formate.

Extreme example, I would pay any day of the week to see Sam play off all MP3 or CDR, cuz he is a true dj, inventive, bags of enthusiasm, a true entertainer. Opposite, I went to a venue the other week a dj came on I have never scene before, the promoter said, "This will be interesting I've never seen him dj". I couldn't believe it he had booked someone to entertain his customers, he had never seen. The guy came on played some stunning, supa rare tracks in the wrong order, mumbled in monotone between each track, so each track was in fact a suprise. and nearly killed the night.

Whats the point of all this. Ian's question has some merit, get back to the values of the early days of the scene, the best dj's/entertainers playing the best music. General spirit of original wax where possible, but don't let that hold back dj's playing exciting inventive sets. Or heavens forbid, we could end up with guarenteed floor filler only please nights, no one chancing a new tune. We have too many dj's on now who think that they are good cuz they have purchased all the 'Right tunes' for big bucks, slag off new dj's that have to be more inventive about what and how they play. Promoters that bow to the pressure of these check book dj's, so we might as well have software which picks random classic tune, with phases like Stafford, Wigan in between, as thats what they are doing anyway.

Everyone will be glad to know I'm starting to feel better and these outbusts should subside soon

A great posting Dave and a very thought provoking thread by Ian , I love vinyl as much as the next collector , often going up to the decks to check out records that I haven't heard or seen before .However when I go to a Modern night ,say Soul Purpose in Hinckley , Soul Republic in Leicester or Soul Underground in B' ham , the Soul sides could be on vinyl , CD's , MP3 it doesn't matter to me or the other punters , my whole mind set changes .I don't know why this is , but I do know that I'd much rather hear an interesting varied set played on whatever format , than a boring set of mega rare played out rare soul sides .Best ,Eddie

[Hitsville Chalky]

I have mixed feelings on this subject. When I go out and DJ I personally play all original wax if i'm doing a northern/modern 45 type event. But do use CDR's if i'm doing a contemporary venue.

But I also feel the rare original only thing has got out of hand over the years.

Someone said earlier that our scene was built on rare soul records. It's this use of rare and original only that I have a problem with. The scene as I see it was built on underexposed, harder to find soul records; yes some of them have turn out to be very hard to find.

But back then, there seemed to be a greater focus on finding new things and getting them played. I would spend hours on the stage of many events watching top dj's playing there sets, the rest on the dance floor dancing badly, but having a great time. Many top dj's would play the odd acetate, so they could bring the latest indemand tune to their venue. I watched while all the top names pulled out the odd acetate, Richard Searling, Pep, Colin Curtis and later Ian Clark, in the early days I have to admit I played the odd thing too. When Ian first got Frank Beverly-Because of my heart, he cut me one. There was an etiquette to this, I would never play it at any event where we both were working or where anyone else who had one worked, back then we tended to know what each had in their boxes.

In some cases where only one copy had turned up, records would never been as big as they were if some dj's did not played the track on acetate. The dj's I admired then were the ones that put together great sets, found 'new sounds'.

Today this focus on original wax only, although understandable with the price some go for, can be be prohibitive to new things gaining acceptance. Also through the soul police approach, only the guys with the big check books get a look in, pushing out new more inventive young dj's cuz they can't afford the top prices. So what we have today is alot of dj's who can't dj but have boxes stuffed full of tunes they have seen other people break, or know are classic dancefloor winners filling the sets at venues. DJing has to be more than just the formate.

Extreme example, I would pay any day of the week to see Sam play off all MP3 or CDR, cuz he is a true dj, inventive, bags of enthusiasm, a true entertainer. Opposite, I went to a venue the other week a dj came on I have never scene before, the promoter said, "This will be interesting I've never seen him dj". I couldn't believe it he had booked someone to entertain his customers, he had never seen. The guy came on played some stunning, supa rare tracks in the wrong order, mumbled in monotone between each track, so each track was in fact a suprise. and nearly killed the night.

Whats the point of all this. Ian's question has some merit, get back to the values of the early days of the scene, the best dj's/entertainers playing the best music. General spirit of original wax where possible, but don't let that hold back dj's playing exciting inventive sets. Or heavens forbid, we could end up with guarenteed floor filler only please nights, no one chancing a new tune. We have too many dj's on now who think that they are good cuz they have purchased all the 'Right tunes' for big bucks, slag off new dj's that have to be more inventive about what and how they play. Promoters that bow to the pressure of these check book dj's, so we might as well have software which picks random classic tune, with phases like Stafford, Wigan in between, as thats what they are doing anyway.

Everyone will be glad to know I'm starting to feel better and these outbusts should subside soon

Spot On Dave when I dj I like to play the original even with a bit of crackle and pops . I know some djs around here who have the big stuff ( Expensive ) cut on to Carvers plates to dj with , to me this is cheating . You can only dj with what you collect or have in your DJ box . Yes in todays world we need a good cheaque book to buy the top stuff , I'm after loads and loads of big expensive tunes , yes I'm sitting here now listing to Cd's with the top expensive ones That I'm after on original , tunes on that i enjoy , to me when you dj its a thrill and pleasure to play off the Original , Until i buy the original i will carry on listening to my cd's in my room then when or if i can afford to get the original i will put one in my Box to Dj with.

[Guest sasquatch]

Yeah but boots are already established 'cos they've already been bootlegged. Plus, judging by most of the threads on here, there's only so many times that people want to hear the same old stuff. I'm really talking about mega rarities which haven't been booted if you see what I mean.........

Also there is that side of me which knows that if you play a rare record on 50 different decks it will get trashed eventually..........

Ian D

As a case in point to what you presented, I have a friend who made cd singles of all his 45s so as to preserve them for his personal collection and play them out without any worries about wearing them out or accidental damage. This is in canada though, so the whole aspect of the vinyl rarity scene is non existent cept to very few people, But thats also a bonus, near nobody's heard any of this stuff or knows it exists so we can present it too them in whatever format we want. I do strive to find my favourites on vinyl if their affordable and like to build really good 'original 45' set for the oppurtunies when I have 2 turntables at my disposal, but it doesn't stop me from using cds at my monthly because cd decks are the only equipment at our disposal. It opens the spectrum for me to put on anything I think is awesome and will make people keep dancing. (What gets me is this moron who plays the same venue, but trucks in turntables merely too play new indie releases on LP hahaha. That I don't understand in anyway. )

I just present this as its something thats been done by someone I know, and the question was posed, even though the scenes are disjucnt. It makes sense to me as the music itself is the most important part as opposed to the format. The main person I know thats made a big stink about format was a lame dj who was scared that the internet generation is easily able to one up him because they have the much more music readily available too them by embracing digital distribution methods, while he is left dumbfounded with his cd collection.

Edited November 22, 2007 by sasquatch

[Ian Dewhirst]

I have mixed feelings on this subject. When I go out and DJ I personally play all original wax if i'm doing a northern/modern 45 type event. But do use CDR's if i'm doing a contemporary venue.

But I also feel the rare original only thing has got out of hand over the years.

Someone said earlier that our scene was built on rare soul records. It's this use of rare and original only that I have a problem with. The scene as I see it was built on underexposed, harder to find soul records; yes some of them have turn out to be very hard to find.

But back then, there seemed to be a greater focus on finding new things and getting them played. I would spend hours on the stage of many events watching top dj's playing there sets, the rest on the dance floor dancing badly, but having a great time. Many top dj's would play the odd acetate, so they could bring the latest indemand tune to their venue. I watched while all the top names pulled out the odd acetate, Richard Searling, Pep, Colin Curtis and later Ian Clark, in the early days I have to admit I played the odd thing too. When Ian first got Frank Beverly-Because of my heart, he cut me one. There was an etiquette to this, I would never play it at any event where we both were working or where anyone else who had one worked, back then we tended to know what each had in their boxes.

In some cases where only one copy had turned up, records would never been as big as they were if some dj's did not played the track on acetate. The dj's I admired then were the ones that put together great sets, found 'new sounds'.

Today this focus on original wax only, although understandable with the price some go for, can be be prohibitive to new things gaining acceptance. Also through the soul police approach, only the guys with the big check books get a look in, pushing out new more inventive young dj's cuz they can't afford the top prices. So what we have today is alot of dj's who can't dj but have boxes stuffed full of tunes they have seen other people break, or know are classic dancefloor winners filling the sets at venues. DJing has to be more than just the formate.

Extreme example, I would pay any day of the week to see Sam play off all MP3 or CDR, cuz he is a true dj, inventive, bags of enthusiasm, a true entertainer. Opposite, I went to a venue the other week a dj came on I have never scene before, the promoter said, "This will be interesting I've never seen him dj". I couldn't believe it he had booked someone to entertain his customers, he had never seen. The guy came on played some stunning, supa rare tracks in the wrong order, mumbled in monotone between each track, so each track was in fact a suprise. and nearly killed the night.

Whats the point of all this. Ian's question has some merit, get back to the values of the early days of the scene, the best dj's/entertainers playing the best music. General spirit of original wax where possible, but don't let that hold back dj's playing exciting inventive sets. Or heavens forbid, we could end up with guarenteed floor filler only please nights, no one chancing a new tune. We have too many dj's on now who think that they are good cuz they have purchased all the 'Right tunes' for big bucks, slag off new dj's that have to be more inventive about what and how they play. Promoters that bow to the pressure of these check book dj's, so we might as well have software which picks random classic tune, with phases like Stafford, Wigan in between, as thats what they are doing anyway.

Everyone will be glad to know I'm starting to feel better and these outbusts should subside soon

Agreed! I had a feeling the thread would touch a nerve - I almost didn't post it but then I thought why not? What's to be afraid of really?

In fact, it's making me wonder something else now: If for instance, Don Davis found a load of unreleased but brilliant J.J. Barnes material in his loft, would it prohibit them being played out because they've never existed on vinyl?

I guess the same thing happened years back with the unreleased Motown stuff didn't it? In cases like this, does the format really matter? Surely a great tune is a great tune whatever the source isn't it?

I've opened a can of worms here LOL.....Can I get safe entry to Yate?

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

finding the equipment is easy , i use numark tt200's with ortofon concordes fitted with ortofon 78 stylii and could do a whole set on 78 if i felt the urge and the sound is bloody amazing ...so in essence playing 78's is very very possible if that is your thing so that argument is void

Davie

Nah it's not void Davie. You have a very bespoke system by the sound of it. Standard decks are SL1200's which only have the option of 331/3 and 45rpm. I've done thousands of gigs and you seldom see 78 as an option - at least not in the gigs I play......

However, whilst we're on the subject I did go to a brilliant outdoor Summer gig last year where a guy was playing 78's on an original HMV type player, you know, the one with the horn loudspeaker with the dog looking in it......

Ian D

[Mark R]

Ian, you've posed some very fair questions mate..........particularly about the unreleased stuff!!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest Netspeaky]

Just seen a post in another thread which reminded me of an earlier post I made which was buried away in another subject so I thought I'd revive it just out of curiosity.

Namely: does it make any sense to play highly rare and valuable original records @ different venues these days?

Surely it doesn't make a lot of sense to play impossibly rare records out at every gig these days does it? It's one way to wear your records out too fast. Especially styrene pressings - I ruined 2 copies of Morris Chestnut, 2 Tobi Legends, 1 Gerri Grainger, I Al Jones and countless others that way, so if you now have 'em in your collection and get annoyed from the hiss and spluttering at the beginning, then you probably have a deejay's old copy!

Also, the way things are moving these days, even CD's are becoming out-of-date - the growth is now in digital formats as much as it kills me to say it. But, from a personal point of view, I think it makes more sense for a DJ to have 10,000 songs at his disposal so he can play what he wants without being limited to a single box of records. Maybe that could be one way to brighten up the playlists possibly?

I know the Northern scene is naturally dominated by records but I'm not sure how relevent actually owning the original vinyl is going to be in years to come. Right now it's like a 'badge of honour' to own the original vinyl but how many of the crowd would be aware whether a track was played on the original vinyl or on CD? Less than 1% I reckon.........Also, the CD version would probably sound better than a well-played vinyl copy I'm saddened to say.....

Don't get me wrong - I love vinyl as much as anyone - I still have a couple of rooms full of it, but I don't see what's so wrong with having the choice of playing both vinyl and CD/Digital. Does it make, say, an unreleased Kent track any better by playing an acetate of it, when it was probably cut from a CD in the first place? Also, I notice that several DJ's on other scenes are playing custom-pressed double-sided copies of their own rarities on bespoke one-off new vinyl pressings. So they're not playing the originals, they're playing re-dubbed versions of their own rare records on a newer piece of plastic. Well, if you do that, then surely it's got be easier to carry 10,000 tunes on a laptop hasn't it?

I notice this is happening more and more with DJ's who play internationally. Freight charges, customs and even foreign Taxes are killing 'em if they carry vinyl these days. Also, it's a risk - would you risk your vinyl collection to baggage handlers around the world? Especially Northern collections! Or do you take 100 records only and limit your choice?

I'm writing this at the time when, in the mainstream market, commercially, the vinyl format is now just about dead and the CD will be dead from mid next year in my opinion (going by the annual declines, store closures and distributors going bust).

This'll be a hiding to nothing here, but is it really worth playing that mega valuable rarity out and diminishing it's quality and lifespan with every play? At least when I wore out my vinyl copies in the mid 70's I could replace 'em a lot cheaper than now........

So, as probably the pre-eminent vinyl collectors forum in the world, what are the views of Soul Source members?

Ian D

For the guys who cue burn records I just put it down to bad DJ pactise, I've been DJing 35 years and never cue burned a record, if you didn't spin it backwards it wouldn't happened, I just use my experience and eye to run the disc in and on the odd occassion I get it wrong I use the mic to break the silence.

As for the original records being played it's what the scene is about isn't it, whether it's a £10 or £10,000 record, otherwise the records might as well be binned and we just hook up a wireless Laptop for the night, the top DJ's could then be doing spots up and down the country without leaving there own home's. Just fast forward 25 years, Sam's in his 90's but still filling dance floors around the country from his nursing home.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hi Ian,

The connection between the two are tenous at best though. People with a 'vested' interest in the the 'music biz' and who are peripheral to the 'scene' are the ones who actually have the myopic vison in my opinion, and not the scene itself. It's an underground music scene. Sure it's developed along the way but primarily it's survived standing seperate from the 'music biz'. It's survived C90s, Laser discs, bootlegs, Cds MP3s, iPods, laptop Djs, and will continue to survive whatever is thrown at it. A catalogue of CD releases that are a drop in the ocean for the Big Five hardly contsitute a relationship between 'The Scene' and 'The Biz'.

Your overview is based on an appreciation of only one criteria - the music business, it's technological development and it's need to reinvent itself every now and then to continue to hoodwink it's customers into buying into what the idustry presents for it's own ends. The main point (or ethos, the word that many people band about), of the scene in the first place was/is to find our own route and AVOID the mainstream 'music biz" surely.

"Change for change sake is not always a good thing."

"If it ain't broke - don't fix it"

Let things develop at their own natural pace.

Etc Etc.

Just because a handful of wannabes start shouting from the rooftops that they are the 'saviours of the rare soul scene' and if they don't get their way it's all gonna fall apart, stagnate and die don't actually make it so.

I think you've misread me Dave. Remember I started on the Northern scene back in 1970 long before I joined the Music Biz. I was merely pointing out that I have an overview which is different to many regulars on here because I've enjoyed a few different scenes and worked 'on the other side' as well. Let's not forget that the 45rpm record was the main format for the mass market in the 60's and 70's and when Northern Soul artists released the records originally they were all looking for big sales and a hit in the commercial market.

Which I guess gives me a bit of a problem with your statement - "The main point (or ethos, the word that many people band about), of the scene in the first place was/is to find our own route and AVOID the mainstream 'music biz" surely".

Surely Northern Soul was founded on the Motown principal originally wasn't it? And Motown WAS the mainstream in the mid 60's - Berry Gordy basically invented a lot of the 'production line' principals as you well know. So, no, I don't think we were necessarily finding our own route - we EMBRACED what was a mainstream sound and kept embracing it long past it's commercial sell-by date for everyone else. I guess that's the beauty of Northern Soul!

Also I guess I'm saying that it's only us that puts the emphasis on the format. The artists are seldom bothered how their music is heard as long as it finds an audience.

By the way, how's the mag going? Loved all the issues I've read to date. Do you have a decent U.S, audience?

Best,

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

For the guys who cue burn records I just put it down to bad DJ pactise, I've been DJing 35 years and never cue burned a record, if you didn't spin it backwards it wouldn't happened, I just use my experience and eye to run the disc in and on the odd occassion I get it wrong I use the mic to break the silence.

As for the original records being played it's what the scene is about isn't it, whether it's a £10 or £10,000 record, otherwise the records might as well be binned and we just hook up a wireless Laptop for the night, the top DJ's could then be doing spots up and down the country without leaving there own home's. Just fast forward 25 years, Sam's in his 90's but still filling dance floors around the country from his nursing home.

Listen, if Sam's confined to a hospital bed in his 90's that's EXACTLY what he'll do LOL!

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian, you've posed some very fair questions mate..........particularly about the unreleased stuff!!

Cheers,

Mark R

Cheers mate! It's really where the vinyl-only argument kinda comes a cropper if you see what I mean. If an unreleased brilliant Frank Wilson was found tomorrow would people really ignore just 'cos it's not on vinyl? Don't think so.....

So then what? Do you have to invent a new set of rules which says that unreleased stuff is only allowed to be played on acetates only?

Actually, on this scene that's probably exactly what would happen since it's essentially a vinyl-only scene but it will be a problem when you can no longer cut acetates.......

Ian D

[Guest dundeedavie]

actually speaking of MP3 dj'ing .... i'm dj'ing at my daughters 14th birthday party (at her request) and am doing so off laptop using professional dj'ing software that i have ......DJ DADDY IN DA HOUSE !!!!

[Guest Bearsy]

Perhaps we should start another thread - If DJ's were Football Teams, which teams would they be?'.....the suggestion of leagues would mean that unless dj's played a good set all season, they'd be up for relegation Now there's a thought....which team would Butch be - and Mischief, which team are you most like? Me, I'd opt for a team that Stanley Matthews played for or a team that wears a black and white strip like Everton Mints somewhere in the 3rd division Totally offside and off topic...but a thought Jo

I would lime to think Gillingham even though they are shite but i will have to settle for Chatham Town, I played for them and i didnt get paid but i played for them because i loved the game and the club and was always passsionate every time i walked on that pitch, a bit like DJing for me, i may not be the best or never will be but i always do my best and do it with a bit of thought and passion, everyone can be obvious but you got to know what standard your at too,

Im the same as Mischief and will do it on original because i get something out of that when lots of my mates think im mad and they dont give a shit if its on OV or cd or even mp3 now,

like i said earlier, if a promoter wants to put an event on that was going to be done on with either Boots, CDs or MP3s and the paying public was aware of this then only bodies through the door will decide if it really makes a difference or not.

Bearsy

[Ian Dewhirst]

As a case in point to what you presented, I have a friend who made cd singles of all his 45s so as to preserve them for his personal collection and play them out without any worries about wearing them out or accidental damage. This is in canada though, so the whole aspect of the vinyl rarity scene is non existent cept to very few people, But thats also a bonus, near nobody's heard any of this stuff or knows it exists so we can present it too them in whatever format we want. I do strive to find my favourites on vinyl if their affordable and like to build really good 'original 45' set for the oppurtunies when I have 2 turntables at my disposal, but it doesn't stop me from using cds at my monthly because cd decks are the only equipment at our disposal. It opens the spectrum for me to put on anything I think is awesome and will make people keep dancing. (What gets me is this moron who plays the same venue, but trucks in turntables merely too play new indie releases on LP hahaha. That I don't understand in anyway. )

I just present this as its something thats been done by someone I know, and the question was posed, even though the scenes are disjucnt. It makes sense to me as the music itself is the most important part as opposed to the format. The main person I know thats made a big stink about format was a lame dj who was scared that the internet generation is easily able to one up him because they have the much more music readily available too them by embracing digital distribution methods, while he is left dumbfounded with his cd collection.

That could be me LOL! I've never deejayed using a laptop but two recent events have made me reconsider the whole thing:-

1) I caught Greg Wilson doing a set on laptop (and reel-to-reel tapes believe it or not) and he made his

choices by judging the mood of the club and played records I haven't heard in a club for 30 odd years!

When I raved about some of his choices he showed me how many tunes were on his laptop (about

8,000) and said he never does the same set EVER. That way he stays completely fresh and never

knows what he's gonna play next. The sheer choice was unbelievable. Plus the gig was brilliant - mainly

because he steered the music so beautifully because he had the CHOICE! For me to have done the

same thing, I would have had to transport my entire record rooms to the gig - a physical impossibility!

That made me think.......

2) I recently had to do a lecture in Toronto which required me to use music. My laptop has a couple of

thousand tunes on it from all genres, so I took it with me. Thank God! When people wanted to know

the differences in certain productions and producers I could play them loads of examples. When

someone asked what Northern Soul was, I had a few hundred examples. When someone wanted to

hear various mixes I had 'em all. When people were asking me if I had certain re-edits or rare

productions I had 'em with me and could give them copies. When I did a 2 hour radio show I could

play more or less whatever I wanted. I had CHOICE!

So these two things made me re-think my views very seriously. I mainly DJ at Rare Disco gigs these days and I always need at least 2 crates or 400 records to feel comfortable and I ALWAYS wish that I'd have brought some other records which would have worked brilliantly.

Now I can!

I've just got to learn the bloody software and get a music-only laptop, so that's my project for the New Year.

And that got me thinking that if acetates are acceptable on the Northern scene, then why not other formats?

Interesting though innit?

Best,

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

actually speaking of MP3 dj'ing .... i'm dj'ing at my daughters 14th birthday party (at her request) and am doing so off laptop using professional dj'ing software that i have ......DJ DADDY IN DA HOUSE !!!!

LOL if she's anything like my daughter she's expect no less! Don't let 'em anywhere near your Northern though 'cos they'll use 'em as frisbees! That's how my Joe Mathews got cracked!

Ian D

[Guest Mart B]

It makes sense that "rare original vinyl is played at venues" Thats what the scences always been about.Imo if a northern dj hasnt got original vinyl he shouldnt attempt to be a dj...Not being elitist but it keeps the scene healthy,we can all play compilation cds but the sounds are bland and doesnt create that atmosphere of an original. .

[Guest]

Actually, on this scene that's probably exactly what would happen since it's essentially a vinyl-only scene but it will be a problem when you can no longer cut acetates.......

Ian D

Never gonna`happen there will allways be carver type jobs and if you want you can buy your own set up for the price of a top record.

[chrissie]

Is it April 1st already...........can't even believe we are even having this discussion

QoFxx

[Dave Thorley]

Agreed! I had a feeling the thread would touch a nerve - I almost didn't post it but then I thought why not? What's to be afraid of really?

In fact, it's making me wonder something else now: If for instance, Don Davis found a load of unreleased but brilliant J.J. Barnes material in his loft, would it prohibit them being played out because they've never existed on vinyl?

I guess the same thing happened years back with the unreleased Motown stuff didn't it? In cases like this, does the format really matter? Surely a great tune is a great tune whatever the source isn't it?

I've opened a can of worms here LOL.....Can I get safe entry to Yate?

Ian D

Hi Ian

I'm not saying can't, I know it was a long reply to yours. I think the vinyl thing is a special part of what makes our scene. But not the be all and end all. I've played some un-released 60's stuff on CDR, so that they can be heard and can't be bothered to get them cut to a carver. But then arrive at some venues and they don't have a CD deck. I've even taken an Ipod to a modern event, jacked in and played some MP3 only soulful house tracks. I think long term, mixed formate djing is a reality, but I find it hard to let my vinyl habit go.

In fact one of the points I was trying to make, was the vinyl original only or hang the dj, is stifling the scene and not even in line with the earlier spirit of the scene, that I first knew and loved. There should be some flexibilty so the best tracks can be played and heard and if that means CDR or MP3 then so be it.

You and I will remember the the outrage in some quarters when 12" first arrived, 'this is the devils work', but in reality all they were was another format.

I do think that some object cuz they love the scene passionatly as it once was, which is fine. Some object, cuz they can't get their heads round the technology, well go learn. Others object cuz they have built their reputation as a checkbook dj and see technology as their nemosis, good.

In the end we want a healthy, evolving scene, with great dj's playing the best music, don't we ?

This may mean some change and evolution.

If you fancy The Yate do, we would love to see you, but it will be vinyl only night, that was then, this is now.

[Simon M]

Heres a nice setup Ian ..All formats and a drinks tray Guess the software ?

Edited November 22, 2007 by Simon M

[Len]

Never gonna`happen there will allways be carver type jobs and if you want you can buy your own set up for the price of a top record.

Slightly off thread (But not too much) Seems like the right people are reading to ask - I want to play Chuck Carter - He's A Lover - It's unreleased and only on a Kent LP. Am I allowed to get an acetate cut and play it? Or should I play it off Kent? Or should I not play it at all and only hear it if say Guy Hennigan (Who I understand broke it) Or Ady C plays it? - It would actually be a new sound to some people in this area.

Please advice.

Ta,

Len.

'SILKS' @ Wellinhborough this Sat...