Northern And Funk

[Guest Bearsy]

in my humble useless opinion dont each and every tune have to be judged on its own individual merits, some tunes i do like that are kind of funky and some i dont, a bit like i like lots of 60s northern soul but not all of it, if its right it will work if it aint it will bomb simple as that, if a Dj decides to drop a couple of funky sounding northern tunes or northern tunes that have a funky edge in his/her set and they bomb so what thats his/her arse on the line (and maybe promoters) but if they work then a bit of credit might be due for giving them a go, me i couldnt do a night of funk but the odd one hear and there dropped in at an accross the board night i can handle but at a out and out Northern night then NO keep them in your box,

thats my thoughts anyway

Bearsy

[John Reed]

Yeah thats right the dancers at Meltdown gigs were used to funkier styles under the banner of Rare Groove .. I cant really remember a track that went over to nighter scene from rare groove at the moment .

ps. Not really the Jazz Funk styles of 1980/82 .. although that was included at Rare Groove gigs too

I remember Jonathon Moore playing Leon Austin - Turn Me Loose at a rare groove do in London and then heard it a few years later at a northen do. But I don't know what "scene" played it first.

There was also a lot of Philly Stuff Norman Jay played that I've heard at both do's, but again I don't know where it was played first.

Edited November 19, 2007 by John Reed

[Pete S]

So much for 'One Nation Under A Groove'

You just won't have it will you, people like northern soul because it's different from other types of soul, don't want them all mixed in together, that makes it the equivalent of a 70's divs nightclub which we would have al avoided like the plague. Funk, modern, it has it's place, but it's not in the Northern room. A lot of people got into Northern in the first place as an escape from this sort of music! (I've no complain about the frankie crockers, diane jenkins etc, these are brilliant records but they were quasi-northern anyway)

Edited November 19, 2007 by Pete S

[Simon M]

I remember Jonathon Moore playing Leon Austin - Turn Me Loose at a rare groove do in London and then heard it a few years later at a northen do. But I don't know what "scene" played it first.

There was also a lot of Philly Stuff Norman Jay played that I've heard at both do's, but again I don't know where it was played first.

Yeah Johnathn was the chap playing early house mixed in with , well almost everything . Again I cant say where things were played first ( well unless its a modern soul new release) ... but Ive heard most of the funky stuff was played in London on release at venues like Crackers .

It was obvious to me that people had quite a few different dance styles at Rare Groove nighters and could often adapt to the records played .. Today the Northern scene is happy to stick to one style of dance , and even fast shuffling is not ofen seen

Edited November 19, 2007 by Simon M

[Paul-s]

NORTHERN AND FUNK GO 2GETHER LIKE OIL AND WATER, IN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, MAYBY YOUNGER CROWD IN LONDON, BUT NOT NORTH OF THE WATFORD GAP, I DON'T THINK ITS GOT A PLACE AT A NIGHTER IN A SEPERATE ROOM, I HEARD FROM A FEW PEOPLE FEW DJS R PLAYING A FEW FUNKS INTO THEIR DJING, AND ITS CLEARING THE FLOOR SHOULD THEY CARRY ON AND MOVE FORWARD OR STOP IT YOUR VIEWS ON THIS IF POSSIBLE BILLY

Wow, short memories for some.. Frankie Crocker, Seventh Wonder, Sister Lee and scores of other tracks that packed the wigan floor aswell as nighters across the country?! remember P-funk from the same nighter period? Palais downstairs, Morcambe, Cleethorpes upstairs, Blackpool Mecca? These have ALL contributed to the scene along the way! Think its down to your own definition of funk. I dont want to hear 'Get up off that thing' or 'funky good time' at a soul night, BUT rhythm and soul, (which I think some of you are calling 'funk') is a definite YES. I mean, if you are prepared to dance to white psychedelic tracks like 'Deadbeats' or nursery rhymes like 'nick nack paddy wack', or clip clopping country chittlin soul, why draw a line anywhere?

I think its some peoples ability to hear and feel, nothing but a four/four beat that stops this scene progressing and growing.....

When you look at some of the s---te thats played out, it really is a liberty to start calling 'funk' out of place ! Just my opinion, nothing else tigers!

[LOU]

Wow, short memories for some.. Frankie Crocker, Seventh Wonder, Sister Lee and scores of other tracks that packed the wigan floor aswell as nighters across the country?! remember P-funk from the same nighter period? Palais downstairs, Morcambe, Cleethorpes upstairs, Blackpool Mecca? These have ALL contributed to the scene along the way! Think its down to your own definition of funk. I dont want to hear 'Get up off that thing' or 'funky good time' at a soul night, BUT rhythm and soul, (which I think some of you are calling 'funk') is a definite YES. I mean, if you are prepared to dance to white psychedelic tracks like 'Deadbeats' or nursery rhymes like 'nick nack paddy wack', or clip clopping country chittlin soul, why draw a line anywhere?

I think its some peoples ability to hear and feel, nothing but a four/four beat that stops this scene progressing and growing.....

When you look at some of the s---te thats played out, it really is a liberty to start calling 'funk' out of place ! Just my opinion, nothing else tigers!

Well said paul

Did none of you ever go to the Ritz Alldayers on a sunday after wigan nighter- jaz-funk and northern mixed

full dance floors and superb dancing-if its got the beat watch the feet.

[Pete S]

Sister Lee

What in the name of all that's holy has Sister Lee got to do with funk Paul?

It's out and out 60's Detroit Northern Soul.

[chrissie]

What in the name of all that's holy has Sister Lee got to do with funk Paul?

It's out and out 60's Detroit Northern Soul.

I was thinking that, but thought I had missed the point as usual

QoFxx

[spot]

Here's my two'penneth worth then . If you went to Cleethorpes Pier & Wintergardens you found that unknowingly your ears became atuned to a slightly more edgy, funky beat because they were some of the tunes of the moment, like Rimshots, Skullsnaps, Crow & Lou Pride which we're massive & still excellent now.

I get a little confused when people say that Joseph Webster, Ellipsis, Mixed Feelings etc are Funk, because that same as saying everything after 31st December 1969 is Modern!! Funk to me (IMHO) is stuff like Bootsy Collins, Funkadelic, Parliaments.As long as the beats nice & danceable & it fills the floor does it really matter.

Another observation whilst I'm spouting off, I don't like (most) R&B or Modern two step but will sit it out or chat & have a drink while those who do enjoy it do their stuff but at 95% of supposed "Across the Board" venues (don't exsist, it's a fallacy,alway biase.) the Oldies only crew become very vocal calling for "60's" & when not geting their way leaving in childish strop's with bottom lips dragging on the floor, I experienced this at a Cleethorpes Alldayer & a local venue & even heard from a very reliable source that this type of merry band even managed to stop Soul Sam playing saturday night at Blackpool & I was there when some bright spark last year asked Butch,"When are you gonna play some Northern??" as he spun Little Major Williams!!!!! I knew there was a reason we didn't go.

Sorry about that, no real point to it but made me feel a lot better.

Take care & be safe,

Spot.

[Pete S]

Here's my two'penneth worth then . If you went to Cleethorpes Pier & Wintergardens you found that unknowingly your ears became atuned to a slightly more edgy, funky beat because they were some of the tunes of the moment, like Rimshots, Skullsnaps, Crow & Lou Pride which we're massive & still excellent now.

These are great records and are deserved classics but it's just the simple statement "should funk be played in northern rooms" that's getting my back up and the answer is no - you might as well play roots reggae, it's made by black people but has nothing to do with "Northern Soul".

[Jason S]

I get a little confused when people say that Joseph Webster, Ellipsis, Mixed Feelings etc are Funk

Yeah, me too cos they aren't! Uptempo funky 70's soul yes, but straight, hard funk - the kind that I assumed the initial poster was refering to? No. Never.

[Pete S]

Yeah, me too cos they aren't! Uptempo funky 70's soul yes, but straight, hard funk - the kind that I assumed the initial poster was refering to? No. Never.

Same as what he says.

[Jason S]

Same as what he says.

True, but others had said those records were funk so I was agreeing. But by the same token it's not the funkadelic type sounds that people who might try funk at NS do's would tend to play, though, seeing as a generation of funk fans coming into the music over the past 15 years or so mainly regard that sound as gimmicky and a bit cliched. All the examples of 'funk' things that have been given so far are either old plays on the scene or not really 'funk' in the way that the kind of stuff likely to be played now are understood, heard or collected and DJ'd as funk. Flamming Emeralds is more likely to fill a floor in a tower in Blackpool to 2000 people than Larry Ellis & The Black Hammer which would kill it and probably result in things being thrown in the direction of the dj.

Edited November 19, 2007 by J-Brew

[chrissie]

Same as what he says.

Me to ......whatever it was

QoFxx

[Guest fryer]

Here's my two'penneth worth then . If you went to Cleethorpes Pier & Wintergardens you found that unknowingly your ears became atuned to a slightly more edgy, funky beat because they were some of the tunes of the moment, like Rimshots, Skullsnaps, Crow & Lou Pride which we're massive & still excellent now.

I get a little confused when people say that Joseph Webster, Ellipsis, Mixed Feelings etc are Funk, because that same as saying everything after 31st December 1969 is Modern!! Funk to me (IMHO) is stuff like Bootsy Collins, Funkadelic, Parliaments.As long as the beats nice & danceable & it fills the floor does it really matter.

Another observation whilst I'm spouting off, I don't like (most) R&B or Modern two step but will sit it out or chat & have a drink while those who do enjoy it do their stuff but at 95% of supposed "Across the Board" venues (don't exsist, it's a fallacy,alway biase.) the Oldies only crew become very vocal calling for "60's" & when not geting their way leaving in childish strop's with bottom lips dragging on the floor, I experienced this at a Cleethorpes Alldayer & a local venue & even heard from a very reliable source that this type of merry band even managed to stop Soul Sam playing saturday night at Blackpool & I was there when some bright spark last year asked Butch,"When are you gonna play some Northern??" as he spun Little Major Williams!!!!! I knew there was a reason we didn't go.

Sorry about that, no real point to it but made me feel a lot better.

Take care & be safe,

Spot.

Bootsy Collins, Funkadelic, Parliaments is not "funk" it's funky rock. Only people who read record collector, mojo and civilains think that's funk. Funk is more like "Cold Sweat" not some gay rock funky rock band. There are tons of funk and funk tunes played on the northern scene, but cause you have labeled them northern they are northern. I can assure you if a big dj started playing some of the big funk 45s they would suddenly become northern overnight and you would all somehow be able to apreciate their northerness all of a sudden.

There are three types of northern collector/djs i have met in my travels. The ones that look in your box and ignore the 45s they dont know as they cant be good if they dont know them. Then the smart ones who listen to everthing they dont know, Dyson and Sam are a good example of guys who check it all out and make their own mind up, you might not agree with them but at least they have the stones to make there own mind up whats good and whats not. There is also a rare third breed who know you have some interesting stuff but there ego wont let them check them out as they dont want to admit to not knowing something.

basicly who cares funk is just part of the soul genre and northern cherry picks from all over that genre as well as from some totaly bizzare non soul genres

Edited November 19, 2007 by fryer

[Paul-s]

Bootsy Collins, Funkadelic, Parliaments is not "funk" it's funky rock. Only people who read record collector, mojo and civilains think that's funk. Funk is more like "Cold Sweat" not some gay rock funky rock band. There are tons of funk and funk tunes played on the northern scene, but cause you have labeled them northern they are northern. I can assure you if a big dj started playing some of the big funk 45s they would suddenly become northern overnight and you would all somehow be able to apreciate their northerness all of a sudden.

There are three types of northern collector/djs i have met in my travels. The ones that look in your box and ignore the 45s they dont know as they cant be good if they dont know them. Then the smart ones who listen to everthing they dont know, Dyson and Sam are a good example of guys who check it all out and make their own mind up, you might not agree with them but at least they have the stones to make there own mind up whats good and whats not. There is also a rare third breed who know you have some interesting stuff but there ego wont let them check them out as they dont want to admit to not knowing something.

basicly who cares funk is just part of the soul genre and northern cherry picks from all over that genre as well as from some totaly bizzare non soul genres

SPOT ON!!

[Paul-s]

What in the name of all that's holy has Sister Lee got to do with funk Paul?

It's out and out 60's Detroit Northern Soul.

Ha! Knew you'd grab that. Its all down to how you classify it in your individual music memory.....what i did with 'Sister Lee' there, is what a lot of you do with out and out rhythmic soul tracks, when YOU personally haven't got the capacity to hear or feel them.......you call it funk or NOT northern! The term Northern soul used to incorporate a lot more than it does now! Now, it seems to represent a musical dogma and is devoid of the eclecticism and thirst for musical exploration that it originally embraced. My ears are and have always been, open to hearing new stuff, thats how we develop our 'souls'. Sure, along the way you will hear some crap, but if you lose that spirit of adventure, the scene atrophies. I know one thing, Im sick of hearing 'the same old stuff, week in and week out'. .It Never used to happen...now its the staple diet of so called 'soulies'.

[Pete S]

What in the name of all that's holy has Sister Lee got to do with funk Paul?

It's out and out 60's Detroit Northern Soul.

Ha! Knew you'd grab that. Its all down to how you classify it in your individual music memory.....what i did with 'Sister Lee' there, is what a lot of you do with out and out rhythmic soul tracks, when YOU personally haven't got the capacity to hear or feel them.......you call it funk or NOT northern! The term Northern soul used to incorporate a lot more than it does now! Now, it seems to represent a musical dogma and is devoid of the eclecticism and thirst for musical exploration that it originally embraced. My ears are and have always been, open to hearing new stuff, thats how we develop our 'souls'. Sure, along the way you will hear some crap, but if you lose that spirit of adventure, the scene atrophies. I know one thing, Im sick of hearing 'the same old stuff, week in and week out'. .It Never used to happen...now its the staple diet of so called 'soulies'.

Is Get It Baby now a funk record? What about Landslide, great funk track?

I'm glad you're up for the job of being the saviour of the northern scene with your fantastic eclectic taste in music Paul but when you've got people walking out on a Soul Sam spot that must surely tell you that your message is becoming lost amongst the majority of people.

[Dave Thorley]

These are great records and are deserved classics but it's just the simple statement "should funk be played in northern rooms" that's getting my back up and the answer is no - you might as well play roots reggae, it's made by black people but has nothing to do with "Northern Soul".

Pete

You and I will never agree on this, and I'm sure we went to the Casino at the same time, some of the stuff you say isn't northern soul was played at Wigan and many other clubs as new tunes and was called 'Northern Soul', just cuz you don't like it and it dosn't fit your definition of 'Northern Soul', still doesn't mean it isn't. You didn't write the definition of what is, you can't re-write it. You will just have to accept you don't like all forms of Northern Soul, as it was originally played and termed.

The definition, as I remember was coined by Dave Godin, to discribe obscure/non-hit soul music being played in clubs in the North West. In his original definition, there was no mention of 60's only. Also by the time he used the term lots of 70's funky, Philly floating tunes were being played and fell under his decription.

The New definition (60's only) is Northern Soul, is a re-write by people who wish history hadn't happen the way it did cuz it dosn't fit the way they want the world to be.

Hope your having a good day.

Dave

[Pete S]

Pete

You and I will never agree on this, and I'm sure we went to the Casino at the same time, some of the stuff you say isn't northern soul was played at Wigan and many other clubs as new tunes and was called 'Northern Soul', just cuz you don't like it and it dosn't fit your definition of 'Northern Soul', still doesn't mean it isn't. You didn't write the definition of what is, you can't re-write it. You will just have to accept you don't like all forms of Northern Soul, as it was originally played and termed.

The definition, as I remember was coined by Dave Godin, to discribe obscure/non-hit soul music being played in clubs in the North West. In his original definition, there was no mention of 60's only. Also by the time he used the term lots of 70's funky, Philly floating tunes were being played and fell under his decription.

The New definition (60's only) is Northern Soul, is a re-write by people who wish history hadn't happen the way it did cuz it dosn't fit the way they want the world to be.

Hope your having a good day.

Dave

Well give me some examples of the records we were hearing at the same time Dave instead of just making a sweeping statement that I don't like any of them! I've probably got half of them.

As for the well worn Godin comment, the reason there was no mention of it being 60's only is because he said it in 1970 and therefore anything past that couldn't have been referenced, could it?

[Paul-s]

Is Get It Baby now a funk record? What about Landslide, great funk track?

I'm glad you're up for the job of being the saviour of the northern scene with your fantastic eclectic taste in music Paul but when you've got people walking out on a Soul Sam spot that must surely tell you that your message is becoming lost amongst the majority of people.

Hey, Im not sticking up for SOUL SAM...I f...king hate 'King Moses'! Im not the saviour of any scene, I play in a small room where a small number of people like to hear exciting 'soul' music...free of dogma and dictatorships. I certainly dont and never have been, one of the majority! Thats why i originally got into 'Northern' in 76'! Unfortunately that scene has now become a 'majority' enterprise! and has long forgotten its original ethos of discovery and dancing!

[Dave Thorley]

Well give me some examples of the records we were hearing at the same time Dave instead of just making a sweeping statement that I don't like any of them! I've probably got half of them.

As for the well worn Godin comment, the reason there was no mention of it being 60's only is because he said it in 1970 and therefore anything past that couldn't have been referenced, could it?

The article was published in 1970 as you rightly said but not on the stroke of midnight 69/70. But some time in that year, infact I believe it was late 1970 and was describing what was happening at the time. And at that time new release independant tunes were also being played and called northern soul. This continued for the next few years without re-inventists saying a word, the split and attempted re-write didn't arrive untill the mid-70's.

This tread is littered with examples of tunes named by myself and many others, infact you named several yourself in reply earlier, which you said you liked and were played as northern soul, even though you won't accept that.

Dave Godin also had something else interesting to say about the scene on re-writes and definitions in his artical in Soulful Kinda Music.

"The trouble with all art forms that come from the bottom up is that eventually, (when all element of real danger has passed, and only pretend danger still exists), they will be seized upon by those who at the time it was actually happening, stood timidly on the outer fringes of it all. Then, when they feel it is safe to do so, seek to move in to become the Kings of the Castle in a realm from which they were initially excluded from. It is indeed, if you like, the revenge of the nerds! Britain, perhaps more than any other culture, has this apparent obsession with pigeon-holing things, as if having everything properly arranged and defined ensures we all know our proper place, and presumably this orderly sense of certainty will then usher in the Peaceable Kingdom of God on earth! No such luck, matey! It's just a manifestation of neurotic insecurity."

and he goes on to say

"It also overlooks the fact that one of the great achievements of Blackamerican music is its constant ability and indeed, willingness, to absorb musical influences from all over the place, and of course, in a capitalist economy this will mostly be those from the records which are currently making the Top!

This over-romanticised notion that some people have of Blackamerican performers and their music is in my view an albatross, albeit one that is orchestrated by a very tiny minority. Words like "purity" and "authenticity" are casually employed without any thought to what those words imply, and what is worse, Blackamerica itself has not been given any chance of input as to how such terms are defined. Of course when you are being interviewed, you soon pick up from where the interviewer is coming from, and it is understandable human nature that the interviewee will then proceed to give the sort of answers that he or she feels are expected of them, but privately, they may subsequently snort with derision. And indeed, why not?

Of course the musical "purist" has little time for any record that is commercially successful as if the fact that it has made the charts demonstrates proof evidence that some serious degree of compromise must already have taken place. But, there is nothing new about two-faced double-think in the mind of folks who seek to dictate, and who want the world to become a reflection of their own personality. Look at the US government's constant cosying up to the Chinese government ("favoured trading nation status") which maintains an authoritarian grip over a country where the concept of "human rights" can hardly be said to exist, and compare it with their constant harrassment of poor little Cuba where at least you are still free to dance and shimmy if not to be cussed. And reflect too on how the politics of the last three years of Martin Luther King's life have been air-brushed out of memory. (And, for the record, (you read it here first!), I don't think history will judge Eddie Murphy too kindly.) "

PS, you still haven't told me if your having a good day!!!!!!

Dave

Edited November 19, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Dave]

Yeah, me too cos they aren't! Uptempo funky 70's soul yes, but straight, hard funk - the kind that I assumed the initial poster was refering to? No. Never.

Bang on mate!

Every record that has been mentioned on this thread as a play is soul music with a funky slant.

I'd be interested to see Billy or anyone else name one record they've heard at a northern do that is out and out hard funk.

Like Spot said, if there's the odd record that doesn't appeal, anyone can adjourn to the bar for a few minutes and allow others to enjoy miusic they like.

When dinosaurs start saying this and that should not be played, its a sad day for the scene IMO.

[Simon M]

Bang on mate!

Every record that has been mentioned on this thread as a play is soul music with a funky slant.

I'd be interested to see Billy or anyone else name one record they've heard at a northern do that is out and out hard funk.

Like Spot said, if there's the odd record that doesn't appeal, anyone can adjourn to the bar for a few minutes and allow others to enjoy miusic they like.

When dinosaurs start saying this and that should not be played, its a sad day for the scene IMO.

Surely The Love Experience is out and out hard funk ?

Edited November 19, 2007 by Simon M

[Jason S]

Surely The Love Experience is out and out hard funk ?

Absolutely! 100% - nothing but.

[Guest fryer]

Save The Youth is more funk than it is anything else.

[Guest wrighty]

Absolutely! 100% - nothing but.

totally agree with you, cracking tune tho

[Simon M]

Absolutely! 100% - nothing but.

Those breaks , perfect for northern dancers and funk .. if only I was young again

[Jason S]

Those breaks , perfect for northern dancers and funk .. if only I was young again

yeah, except 95% of 'northern dancers' would have left the floor by the 4th bar

[Pete S]

The article was published in 1970 as you rightly said but not on the stroke of midnight 69/70. But some time in that year, infact I believe it was late 1970 and was describing what was happening at the time. And at that time new release independant tunes were also being played and called northern soul. This continued for the next few years without re-inventists saying a word, the split and attempted re-write didn't arrive untill the mid-70's.

This tread is littered with examples of tunes named by myself and many others, infact you named several yourself in reply earlier, which you said you liked and were played as northern soul, even though you won't accept that.

Dave Godin also had something else interesting to say about the scene on re-writes and definitions in his artical in Soulful Kinda Music.

"The trouble with all art forms that come from the bottom up is that eventually, (when all element of real danger has passed, and only pretend danger still exists), they will be seized upon by those who at the time it was actually happening, stood timidly on the outer fringes of it all. Then, when they feel it is safe to do so, seek to move in to become the Kings of the Castle in a realm from which they were initially excluded from. It is indeed, if you like, the revenge of the nerds! Britain, perhaps more than any other culture, has this apparent obsession with pigeon-holing things, as if having everything properly arranged and defined ensures we all know our proper place, and presumably this orderly sense of certainty will then usher in the Peaceable Kingdom of God on earth! No such luck, matey! It's just a manifestation of neurotic insecurity."

and he goes on to say

"It also overlooks the fact that one of the great achievements of Blackamerican music is its constant ability and indeed, willingness, to absorb musical influences from all over the place, and of course, in a capitalist economy this will mostly be those from the records which are currently making the Top!

This over-romanticised notion that some people have of Blackamerican performers and their music is in my view an albatross, albeit one that is orchestrated by a very tiny minority. Words like "purity" and "authenticity" are casually employed without any thought to what those words imply, and what is worse, Blackamerica itself has not been given any chance of input as to how such terms are defined. Of course when you are being interviewed, you soon pick up from where the interviewer is coming from, and it is understandable human nature that the interviewee will then proceed to give the sort of answers that he or she feels are expected of them, but privately, they may subsequently snort with derision. And indeed, why not?

Of course the musical "purist" has little time for any record that is commercially successful as if the fact that it has made the charts demonstrates proof evidence that some serious degree of compromise must already have taken place. But, there is nothing new about two-faced double-think in the mind of folks who seek to dictate, and who want the world to become a reflection of their own personality. Look at the US government's constant cosying up to the Chinese government ("favoured trading nation status") which maintains an authoritarian grip over a country where the concept of "human rights" can hardly be said to exist, and compare it with their constant harrassment of poor little Cuba where at least you are still free to dance and shimmy if not to be cussed. And reflect too on how the politics of the last three years of Martin Luther King's life have been air-brushed out of memory. (And, for the record, (you read it here first!), I don't think history will judge Eddie Murphy too kindly.) "

PS, you still haven't told me if your having a good day!!!!!!

Dave

I was having a good day before you printed that Dave Godin article. However, as the man is untouchable on here I won't comment any further.

I have got flu, but I'm not having too bad of a day.

As for the rest of your post, I haven't got a clue what you're on about, I say I like it but won't admit it, whachootalkinboutwillis?

[Pete S]

Bang on mate!

Every record that has been mentioned on this thread as a play is soul music with a funky slant.

I'd be interested to see Billy or anyone else name one record they've heard at a northern do that is out and out hard funk.

Like Spot said, if there's the odd record that doesn't appeal, anyone can adjourn to the bar for a few minutes and allow others to enjoy miusic they like.

When dinosaurs start saying this and that should not be played, its a sad day for the scene IMO.

Why?

[Winnie :-)]

Why?

===========

Have to echo Pete's question. Have you never read SS dave, plenty of people on here saying what should and shouldn't be played at northern nights, and most of them aren't your typical dinosaurs. Problem with the northern scene now is that there aren't as many dancers so the thinkers have taken over the music policy, hence some of the uninspired dirges that get spun. I'm not talking about modern/funk etc, referring to the mid-tempo/R&B that gets passed off as 'dance' music. Hmmmm thinking about it, maybe our scene isn't dance driven anymore

Winnie:-)

[Pete S]

===========

Have to echo Pete's question. Have you never read SS dave, plenty of people on here saying what should and shouldn't be played at northern nights, and most of them aren't your typical dinosaurs. Problem with the northern scene now is that there aren't as many dancers so the thinkers have taken over the music policy, hence some of the uninspired dirges that get spun. I'm not talking about modern/funk etc, referring to the mid-tempo/R&B that gets passed off as 'dance' music. Hmmmm thinking about it, maybe our scene isn't dance driven anymore

Winnie:-)

It's the way he uses the word 'dinosaurs', presumably meaning those of us who prefer the traditional 1966 style northern dancers, except in reality, everybody moans about everything; some people can't stand r & b, some can't stand modern, some can't stand crossover. Very few people like every strand of soul music, same as for instance I don't like every strand of reggae music, even though many people say "it all sounds the same"

[Guest Bearsy]

It's the way he uses the word 'dinosaurs', presumably meaning those of us who prefer the traditional 1966 style northern dancers, except in reality, everybody moans about everything; some people can't stand r & b, some can't stand modern, some can't stand crossover. Very few people like every strand of soul music, same as for instance I don't like every strand of reggae music, even though many people say "it all sounds the same"

very true Pete, and i cant stand out and out funk ive tried to listen to some but i just cant but saying that i dont like heavy metal either

[Pete S]

Hey, Im not sticking up for SOUL SAM...I f...king hate 'King Moses'! Im not the saviour of any scene, I play in a small room where a small number of people like to hear exciting 'soul' music...free of dogma and dictatorships. I certainly dont and never have been, one of the majority! Thats why i originally got into 'Northern' in 76'! Unfortunately that scene has now become a 'majority' enterprise! and has long forgotten its original ethos of discovery and dancing!

Paul everything I say to you and vice versa seems to keep coming out wrong so I just wanted to apologise if you think I'm having a right go at you, I'm not. Not that you'd be bothered or anything. Just can't seem to make the point I'm trying to make thats all. Plus I've got the flu.

[Pete S]

very true Pete, and i cant stand out and out funk ive tried to listen to some but i just cant but saying that i dont like heavy metal either

Yes but you wouldn't expect to hear heavy metal at a northern do - the suggestion was should funk be played at a northern do - so is funk as far removed from northern as heavy metal is? Is it true that Led Zepplin's Trampled Underfoot was played at the Mecca or is that just folklore?

[Simon M]

Yes but you wouldn't expect to hear heavy metal at a northern do - the suggestion was should funk be played at a northern do - so is funk as far removed from northern as heavy metal is? Is it true that Led Zepplin's Trampled Underfoot was played at the Mecca or is that just folklore?

Is it true they played The Who at Wigan ?

[Winnie :-)]

It's the way he uses the word 'dinosaurs', presumably meaning those of us who prefer the traditional 1966 style northern dancers, except in reality, everybody moans about everything; some people can't stand r & b, some can't stand modern, some can't stand crossover. Very few people like every strand of soul music, same as for instance I don't like every strand of reggae music, even though many people say "it all sounds the same"

===============

Aint that the truth :-) The top 500 must be amongst the most slagged off things on SS and if you like stuff in it, you're labelled a dinosaur.............

[Guest Bearsy]

Yes but you wouldn't expect to hear heavy metal at a northern do - the suggestion was should funk be played at a northern do - so is funk as far removed from northern as heavy metal is? Is it true that Led Zepplin's Trampled Underfoot was played at the Mecca or is that just folklore?

probably true Pete and i bet you got a tape of it too

but for me out and out funk might aswell be heavy metal, i just dont like it, but i dont mind some of the so called northern with a bit of a funky edge to it, strange maybe but thats my personal taste, and yes i have tried to listen to it but it just dont do it for me ,

[Winnie :-)]

Yes but you wouldn't expect to hear heavy metal at a northern do - the suggestion was should funk be played at a northern do - so is funk as far removed from northern as heavy metal is? Is it true that Led Zepplin's Trampled Underfoot was played at the Mecca or is that just folklore?

=============

I remember the styles of dancing clashing, soft shoe shuffle in plastic sandals to Boby Franklin and Stanley Woodruff I'm too old to start dancing in front of mirrors again and plastic sandals would make my feet sweaty

Seriously I have to say I'm in favour of modern and moderately funky stuff being played in northern rooms, but would want traditional mixed in as well. What I wouldn't want is hour long sets of out and out funk.

[Pete S]

Is it true they played The Who at Wigan ?

I think that probably is true. In late 79 there were more mods than soulies going to Wigan, and I believe they would have been catered for in that manner. I also heard My Generation played at Stafford TOTW all dayer at the same time.

[Dave Thorley]

I was having a good day before you printed that Dave Godin article. However, as the man is untouchable on here I won't comment any further.

I have got flu, but I'm not having too bad of a day.

As for the rest of your post, I haven't got a clue what you're on about, I say I like it but won't admit it, whachootalkinboutwillis?

Funny enough suffering the same myself, just off to bed, had enough for one day.

Dave

Edited November 19, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Simon M]

I think that probably is true. In late 79 there were more mods than soulies going to Wigan, and I believe they would have been catered for in that manner. I also heard My Generation played at Stafford TOTW all dayer at the same time.

I was a mod in 1979 and that record caused mayhem , as everyone jumped up and down like punks and became agressive .. I wonder how they danced at Wigan to The Who ?

[Pete S]

This is the Northern Soul top 500, or rather, these are the records from the Northern Soul top 500 that I own. If that makes me a dinosaur then I couldn't care less because I love every one of these records and am proud to own them. (Ignore prices and labels by the way, they were just attached to the list I found)

3. Baker, Yvonne - You Didn't Say a Word (Parkway) (£300 - official issue)

7. Epitome of Sound - You Don't Love Me (Sandbag)

8. Mimms, Garnet - Looking for You (United Artists)

12. Salvadors - Stick by Me Baby (Wise World)

13. Tomangoes - I Really Love You (Washpan)

14. Legend, Tobi - Time Will Pass You By (Amy) (£300 - official issue)

15. Clarke, Tony - Landslide (Chess)

16. Williams, Larry and Johnny Watson - Too Late (Okeh)

18. Tee, Willie - Walking Up a One Way Street (Nola)

19. Barnes, Dena - If You Ever Walk Out of My Life (Inferno)

28. Britt, Mel - She'll Come Running Back (FIP) (£600 - official issue/£800 - demo)

29. Checkerboard Squares - Double Cookin' (Villa) (£300)

31. Williams, Jerry - If You Ask Me - Live Video Soultrip USA 2004 (Calla)

32. Johnson, Lou - Unsatisfied (Big Top)

39. Little Anthony and the Imperials - Better Use Your Head (Veep)

41. Montgomery, Jack - Dearly Beloved (Scepter)

46. Hutton, Bobby - Lend a Hand (ABC)

52. Checker, Chubby - You Just Don't Know (What You Do to Me) (Parkway) (£350)

55. Burdick, Doni - Bari Track (Sound Impression)

56. Courtney, Dean - I'll Always Need You (RCA Victor)

57. Clinton, Larry - She's Wanted (Dynamo) (£1,500 - official issue/£1,000 - demo)

58. Ragland, Lou - I Travel Alone (Amy) (£300)

59. Chavez, Freddie - They'll Never Know Why (Look) (£400 - official issue)

61. Parrish, Dean - I'm On My Way (Laurie)

63. Banks, Darrell - Open the Door to Your Heart (Revilot)

67. Hebb, Bobby - Love, Love, Love (Philips)

69. Drifters - You Got to Pay Your Dues (Atlantic)

73. Randell, Lynne - Stranger in My Arms (Epic)

75. Martin, Shane - I Need You (Epic)

77. Pride, Lou - I'm Comun' Home in the Mountain (Suemi) (£1,000)

78. Anka, Paul - I Can't Help Lovin' You (RCA Victor)

79. Four Perfections - I'm Not Strong Enough (Party Time)

81. Coasters - Crazy Baby (Atco)

84. Melvin, Harold and the Blue Notes - Get Out (Landa)

89. Pointer Sisters - Send Him Back (Atlantic)

90. Yum Yums - Gonna Be a Big Thing (ABC Paramount) (£500)

93. Hill, Lainie - Time Marches On (New Voice) (£300)

94. Paris, Bobby - I Walked Away (Capitol)

95. Turner, Spyder - I Can't Make It Anymore (MGM)

102. Poppies - There's a Pain in My Heart (Epic)

103. Edwards, Jackie - I Feel So Bad (Island)

107. 7th Avenue Aviators/Frankie Karl and the Chevrons - You Should O' Held On (Congress/Philtown) (£400 - Philtown)

108. Knight, Marie - That's No Way to Treat a Girl (Musicor)

113. Ann, Beverly - You've Got Your Mind On Other Things (RCA Victor)

114. Charades - Key to My Happiness (MGM)

115. Woods, Billy - Let Me Make You Happy (Sussex) (£2,000)

116. Temple, Richard - That Beatin' Rhythm (Mirwood)

118. Jon and the Wierdest - Can't Get Over These Memories (Tie) (£1,000)

119. Mitchell, Willie - The Champion EP (Hi)

127. Majestics - I Love Her So Much (It Hurts Me) (Linda)

128. Mitchell, Stanley - Get It Baby (Dynamo) (£400 - official issue/£300 - demo)

129. Chestnut, Morris - Too Darn Soulful (Amy) (£300 - official issue)

135. Reflections - Like Adam and Eve (Paramount)

136. Banks, Darrell - Somebody (Somewhere) Needs You (Revilot)

137. Laws, Eloise - Love Factory (Music Merchant)

140. Williams, Bernie - Ever Again (Bell) (£1,500)

141. De-Lites - Lover (Cuppy) (£700)

144. Curtis, Lenny - Nothing Can Help You Now (End) (£450)

145. Chandler, Gene - There Was a Time (Brunswick)

146. Detroit Executives - Cool Off (Pameline)

148. Parrish, Dean - Determination (Boom)

156. Adam's Apples - Don't Take It Out on This World (Brunswick)

169. Ingram, Luther - Exus Trek/If It's All the Same to You (HIB)

171. Wilson, Nancy - End of Our Love (Capitol)

172. Barnes, JJ - Please Let Me In (Ric-Tic)

176. Soul Twins - Quick Change Artist (Karen)

177. Porter, NF - Keep On Keeping On (Lizard)

179. Volcanos - (It's Against) The Laws of Love (Arctic)

183. Ward, Sam - Sister Lee (Groove City) (£350)

184. Freeman, Art - Slippin' Around with You (Fame)

185. McNeir, Ronnie - Sitting in My Class/Isn't She a Pretty Girl (Deto)

186. Tony and Tyrone - Please Operator (Atlantic)

189. Burns, Jimmy - I Really Love You (Erica) (£1,000)

193. Russell, Saxie - Psychedelic Soul (Thomas)

195. Holloway, Brenda - Reconsider (Motown - White Label)

198. Anderson Brothers - I Can See Him Loving You (GSF)

199. Barnes, Towanda - You Don't Mean It (A&M)

203. Frankie and Johnny - I'll Hold You (Decca)

204. Robinson, Shawn - My Dear Heart (Minit)

210. Cooper, Eula - Let Our Love Grow Higher (Super Sound)

213. Demain, Arin - Silent Treatment (Blue Star) (£700)

215. Fletcher, Sam - I'd Think It Over (Tollie)

218. Roye, Lee - Tears (Nothing But Tears) (Decca)

219. Moore, Melba - Magic Touch (Kent Anniversary Special)

220. Little Richie - Just Another Heartache (Sound Stage 7) (£300)

223. Cashmeres - Show Stopper (Hem) (£1,000)

226. Middleton, Tony - Paris Blues (Amy)

231. Prophet, Billy - What Can I Do? (Sue)

237. Spiral Starecase - More Today Than Yesterday (Columbia)

238. Soul Brothers Six - I'll Be Loving You (Atlantic)

239. Originals - Suspicion/Baby Have Mercy on Me (Motown - acetate) (£1,000)

241. Flirtations - Stronger Than Her Love (Festival)

242. Natural Four - I Thought You Were Mine (ABC)

243. Fi-Dels - Try a Little Harder (Keymen)

245. Skullsnaps - I'm Your Pimp (GSF)

255. Hestor, Tony - Down in the Dumps (Goldmine)

257. Williams, Jeanette - All of a Sudden (Back Beat)

261. Betty Boo - Say It Isn't So (Grapevine)

265. Nomads - Somethin's Bad (Mo-Groov) (£800)

268. Garrett, Kelly - Love's the Only Answer (Smash)

269. Parliaments - Don't Be Sore at Me (Revilot)

270. Staton, Candi - Now You've Got the Upper Hand (Unity) (£350)

274. Reparta & the Delrons - Panic (Mala)

276. Houston, Thelma - Baby Mine (Capitol)

282. Righteous Brothers Band - Rat Race (Verve)

284. Johnson, Herb & the Impacts - I'm So Glad (Toxsan) (£300)

291. Chandlers - Your Love Makes Me Lonely (Col-Soul) (£300)

295. Smith, Bobbie - Walk On Into My Heart (American Arts)

296. Bob & Earl Band - My Little Girl (instrumental) (Jay Boy)

297. August & Deneen - We Go Together (ABC)

299. Allen, Larry/L - Can't We Talk It Over (Green Dolphin) (£300 - as Larry)

301. Traynor, Jay - Up and Over (ABC) (£300 - official issue)

302. Little Ann - What Should I Do (Kent)

304. Jay & the Techniques - Apples, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie (Smash)

314. World Column - So Is the Sun (Tower)

315. Bryant, Lillie - Meet Me Halfway (Tay-Ster) (£500)

316. Servicemen - Need a Helping Hand (Wind-Hit) (£1,000)

317. Embers - Watch Out Girl (MGM)

318. Courtney, Dean - Love, You Just Can't Walk Away (MGM)

319. Cooperettes - Shing a Ling (Brunswick)

320. Chandler, Gene - I Can Take Care of Myself (Constellation)

323. Jades - I'm Where It's At (Nite Life) (£300)

324. Inspirations - No One Else Can Take Your Place (Breakthrough) (£4,000)

326. Chapter Five - You Can't Mean It (CBS)

327. Jones, E Rodney - R and B Time (Part 1) (Tuff/Karisma)

332. Ivorys - Please Stay (Despenza/Wand) (£600 - Wand)

337. Del-Larks - Job Opening (Queen City) (£1,000 - official issue/£2,000 - demo)

340. Varner, Don - Tear Stained Face (Quinvy) (£700)

352. Perry, Ann - That's the Way He Is (Theoda)

354. Instrumental (Ronnie and Robyn) - Sidra's Theme (Sidra)

356. Smith, Kenny - Lord, What's Happening to Your People (Goldspot/GAR)

363. Collins, Will and Will Power - Is There Anything I Can Do? (Bareback)

366. Smith, Youngblood - You Can Split (Verve)

367. Raye, Jimmy - Philly Dog Around the World (KKC) (£300)

368. Pollard, Ray - The Drifter (United Artists)

371. Furys - I'm Satisfied with You (Keymen)

372. Garner, Reggie - Hot Line (Capitol)

374. Guyton, Howard - I Watched You Slowly Slip Away (Verve)

376. Total Eclipses - 6 O'Clock (from LP) (Imperial)

377. Holman, Eddie - Where I'm Not Wanted/Hurt (Goldmine)

381. Wynns, Sandy - A Touch of Venus (Champion/Doc)

382. Showmen - Our Love Will Grow (Swan)

383. High Keys - Living a Lie (Verve)

385. David and the Giants - Ten Miles High (Crazy Horse)

387. Hicks, Joe - Don't It Make You Feel Funky (AGC)

395. Baines, Vickie - Country Girl (Parkway) (£400 - official issue)

397. Edwards, Lou - Talkin' 'Bout Poor Folks (Thinking 'Bout My Folks) (Columbia)

408. Hudson, Pookie - This Gets to Me (Jamie)

414. Ambers - Potion of Love (Smash)

419. Davis, Melvin - Find a Quiet Place (Wheel City) (£700)

421. Kent, Al - Way You Been Acting Lately (Ric-Tic)

423. Maestro, Johnny - I'm Stepping Out of the Picture (Scepter) (£600)

433. Daye, Eddie and the Four Bars - Guess Who Loves You (Shrine) (£1,500)

444. Ascots - Another Day (Mir-A-Don)

450. Jewels - We Got Togetherness (MGM)

451. Hutch, Willie - The Duck/Love Runs Out (Dunhill) (£300 - official issue)

455. Gardner, Don - Cheatin Kind (Sedgrick) (£3,000)

459. Mack, Jimmy - My World is on Fire (Palmer) (£500 - official issue/£400 - demo)

462. Hampton, Johnny - Not My Girl (Dotty's) (£800)

470. Wylie, Richard 'Popcorn' - Rosemary What Happened (Karen)

476. Williams, Al - I Am Nothing (Palmer/La Beat) (£1,200 - Palmer/£900 - La Beat: official issue/£1,500 - La Beat: demo)

478. Basil, Toni - Breakaway (A&M)

480. Velours - I'm Gonna Change (MGM)

483. Merrell, Ray - Tears of Joy (Jay Boy)

484. Middleton, Tony - To the Ends of the Earth (MGM)

485. Parker, Eddie - I'm Gone (Awake) (£1,000)

492. Tipton, Lester - This Won't Change (La Beat) (£1,500)

494. Blackwell, g - Can't Lose My Head (Smoke) (£300)

500. Santos, Larry - You Got Me Where You Want Me (Evolution)

[Pete S]

Funny enough suffering the same myself, just off to bed, had enough for one day.

Dave

Problem is, blown my nose so many times that inner liniing must have gone and now I've got to keep cotton wool up there otherwise it won't stop bleeding..and I'm scaring my little boy with this bloody cotton wool hanging out of one nostril

[Pete S]

I was a mod in 1979 and that record caused mayhem , as everyone jumped up and down like punks and became agressive .. I wonder how they danced at Wigan to The Who ?

I honestly don't know, but it was just a passing phase anyway, most of them probably jumped on the next bandwagon and left evryone to it

[BrianB]

=============

Seriously I have to say I'm in favour of modern and moderately funky stuff being played in northern rooms, but would want traditional mixed in as well. What I wouldn't want is hour long sets of out and out funk.

I am seriously starting to think I am on the wrong scene, and the Lunatics are taking over etc!

Modern and moderately funky tracks belong in the Modern or Funk room. End of Story!

Some of the tracks mentioned were tracks that had developed the way Northern/Motown SHOULD have developed. Keeping that dancing feel and slowly evolving. Thats why some 70ts tracks CAN be called Northern.

But modern and funk are not, and never will be Northern soul.

However, I can respect others views, but that is the sort of night I would never go to.

[Pete S]

But modern and funk are not, and never will be Northern soul.

Seconded

[Paul-s]

Paul everything I say to you and vice versa seems to keep coming out wrong so I just wanted to apologise if you think I'm having a right go at you, I'm not. Not that you'd be bothered or anything. Just can't seem to make the point I'm trying to make thats all. Plus I've got the flu.

Hey Pete, Ive always got a smile on my face when Im replying, never take it as a dig! Even if it is!HA!

[Paul-s]

I remember the styles of dancing clashing, soft shoe shuffle in plastic sandals to Boby Franklin and Stanley Woodruff I'm too old to start dancing in front of mirrors again and plastic sandals would make my feet sweaty

Trod in some dog shit whilst wearing clear plastic sandals once...very bad!