Northern And Funk

[Billywhizz]

NORTHERN AND FUNK GO 2GETHER LIKE OIL AND WATER, IN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, MAYBY YOUNGER CROWD IN LONDON, BUT NOT NORTH OF THE WATFORD GAP, I DON'T THINK ITS GOT A PLACE AT A NIGHTER IN A SEPERATE ROOM, I HEARD FROM A FEW PEOPLE FEW DJS R PLAYING A FEW FUNKS INTO THEIR DJING, AND ITS CLEARING THE FLOOR SHOULD THEY CARRY ON AND MOVE FORWARD OR STOP IT YOUR VIEWS ON THIS IF POSSIBLE BILLY

[chrissie]

NORTHERN AND FUNK GO 2GETHER LIKE OIL AND WATER, IN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, MAYBY YOUNGER CROWD IN LONDON, BUT NOT NORTH OF THE WATFORD GAP, I DON'T THINK ITS GOT A PLACE AT A NIGHTER IN A SEPERATE ROOM, I HEARD FROM A FEW PEOPLE FEW DJS R PLAYING A FEW FUNKS INTO THEIR DJING, AND ITS CLEARING THE FLOOR SHOULD THEY CARRY ON AND MOVE FORWARD OR STOP IT YOUR VIEWS ON THIS IF POSSIBLE BILLY

I live south of Watford gap but I agree with you totally (mind you I was born in the North West). If you are going to have a 3rd room, taking that the main room is predominantley NS and the 2nd room is modern (which just about fits in) it is more fitting that it is either RnB or Ska/Reggae which fits far more with the ethos of the Northern Soul scene...........just my opinion of course

QoFxx

[Guest]

NORTHERN AND FUNK GO 2GETHER LIKE OIL AND WATER, IN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, MAYBY YOUNGER CROWD IN LONDON, BUT NOT NORTH OF THE WATFORD GAP, I DON'T THINK ITS GOT A PLACE AT A NIGHTER IN A SEPERATE ROOM, I HEARD FROM A FEW PEOPLE FEW DJS R PLAYING A FEW FUNKS INTO THEIR DJING, AND ITS CLEARING THE FLOOR SHOULD THEY CARRY ON AND MOVE FORWARD OR STOP IT YOUR VIEWS ON THIS IF POSSIBLE BILLY

Funk no thanks,not saying i dont like things a bit funky but full on keep it!!.

[Baz Atkinson]

lots of funkier things have moved northern rooms over the years summer in the parks etc,casino used to bounce,i listen to alot of hard funk at home mainly through cds and if one or two filter through then surely that will enrich a scene which at times can be a tad insular.I remember dancing to cameo at wigan and thinking i hope more of this stuff gets spun[cameo is not funk just a bit funkish i supose]

Good thread Billy ,gonna get real mixed opinion here.

[Guest miff]

Funk has allways had a place in Northen soul, Can think of loads of stuff that has filled floors over the years, Willie J & co, Black Nasty, Flaming Emeralds, Lou Pride, dont get much Funky then that, OK Mybe not all night, But I like a bit of the less inyour face Funk stuff, so soulful & a lot better then the same old same old being played over & over again, If we can have Ska Played, why not funk,

Gettin ready for a get down Miff

[Guest Baz]

Lots of good funk out there well worthy of NS dance floors, common mix up between full out and out 70's funk, hammond organs and all that, joe quarterman and the free soul type sounds, but take some of the spins from the deep funk scene that are dancefloor winners. and visa versa. plenty of quality 60's and 70's funk that falls into the brackets of NS dancefloor fodder. take Eddie Parker for instance classic NS and Deep Funk spin.

I've been spinning a few bits like Mark IV unlimited and Ebony Jam both getting much deserved dancefloor action when i've played them, not traditional funk but the influences are there. Funk has been played on the scene for years, Inovative funk DJ's like craig the funky plumber can play a set that will get a funk room and northern room rockin, with the likes of Richard Marks on Tuska

[Dave Thorley]

Odd Billy. You were in Hamburg a few months ago, played The Crow, pure street funk. The place was rockin'!!!!!!

Also was a top tune in the heyday of the scene along with tunes like Flaming Emeralds.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Kjw]

NORTHERN AND FUNK GO 2GETHER LIKE OIL AND WATER, IN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, MAYBY YOUNGER CROWD IN LONDON, BUT NOT NORTH OF THE WATFORD GAP, I DON'T THINK ITS GOT A PLACE AT A NIGHTER IN A SEPERATE ROOM, I HEARD FROM A FEW PEOPLE FEW DJS R PLAYING A FEW FUNKS INTO THEIR DJING, AND ITS CLEARING THE FLOOR SHOULD THEY CARRY ON AND MOVE FORWARD OR STOP IT YOUR VIEWS ON THIS IF POSSIBLE BILLY

Depends where you draw the line. Lots of funk records have been accepted over the years -

Crow, Rufus Wood, Frankie Crocker, Skull Snaps etc and lots more creeping in over the past few years -

the likes of Hamilton Movement and King George. Some seem to have just the right feel for the Northern scene but I doubt whether the likes of James Brown, Maceo etc are ever going to be accepted.

[Simon M]

Loads of great funky tunes on the scene . Record Player ,Flaming Emeralds , Black Nasty etc etc

Edited November 18, 2007 by Simon M

[Steve G]

NORTHERN AND FUNK GO 2GETHER LIKE OIL AND WATER, IN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, MAYBY YOUNGER CROWD IN LONDON, BUT NOT NORTH OF THE WATFORD GAP, I DON'T THINK ITS GOT A PLACE AT A NIGHTER IN A SEPERATE ROOM, I HEARD FROM A FEW PEOPLE FEW DJS R PLAYING A FEW FUNKS INTO THEIR DJING, AND ITS CLEARING THE FLOOR SHOULD THEY CARRY ON AND MOVE FORWARD OR STOP IT YOUR VIEWS ON THIS IF POSSIBLE BILLY

Assuming you mean the uptempo funky stuff, rather than JB type, I think it is catching on. 8 years ago things like the Hamilton Mvt would have cleared the floor in a northern room. Same with Elipses, mixed Feelings, New World, Joseph Webster, Jerry Washington, Richard Marks (Lose something), Ice etc. They all seem to be doing the business right now. Are they really clearing the floors up north??

[Guest miff]

Heard a James Brown Remix a couple of months ago, and if that was;nt made for todays northern scene I dont now what is, Trouble is I carnt remember what it was, was one of his well known tunes too,

[Dave Thorley]

Also, same old problem as with Modern Soul or Crossover. It's all down to definition, which changes with everyone you speak to. Many northern classics were as someone else has said, indead seen as funk in their day.

Gene Chandler-There was a time(A James Brown tune)

East Coast Connection-Summer in the parks

Fabulous Moonlighters-Forgranted

Diane Jenkins-I need you

Edwin Starr-Time

World Column-So is the sun

To name but a few, all were released and promoted as funk. I have steered clear of later disco funk.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Guest miff]

Billy have a listen to the Podcast J-Brew puts up some great stuff on there, Listen to it a couple of times and dont just swith off give eem a chance and ime shure a couple will grpw on you

[pikeys dog]

Heard a James Brown Remix a couple of months ago, and if that was;nt made for todays northern scene I dont now what is, Trouble is I carnt remember what it was, was one of his well known tunes too,

Give It Up Or turn It Loose - on Urban from the late 80s/early 90s?

Knock it on the head.

[Jason S]

It's probably got no place in a 'this is the traditional northern soul scene, we like what we know, and we know that we don't like funk...' etc type of venue, and in a way rightly so. Those venues will always be about the Northern Soul mindset and will eventually go because there will be no-one left to support them, not least kids who can't relate to the whole set up, etiquette, history etc. But you're actually wrong, Northern (or some 60's and 70's soul) goes hand-in-hand with some funk, just as it can go with 70's soul, jazz funk, disco etc if/when played to and by people that are into a broader spectrum of soul music, have a depth of knowledge in all fields and have the ability to sort the wheat from the chaff. But Funk at a 'traditional' nighter? 'Proper' hardcore underground funk - the kind that many of us have been into for years? Can't see the point really, especially when a lot of decent 60's soul sides clear the floor even though most of them sound like the stuff that fills it. Nights embracing the whole thing played to kids in an effort to make them stop listening to plastic pop shite, at least for a night? Yep, that's a good thing. Might not make them want to join the NS scene but it might make them investigate the music a bit deeper. And at the end of the day that's what matters.

Just reading the examples given, most of those are established soul scene spins - I think the thing is 'funk' not necessarily 'funky' - there's a big difference.

Top of my head, 10 hard funk tunes that would no doubt kill a NS dancefloor deader than a bottle of Domestos but that I'd expect to hear at a funk played on the NS scene night (if it were done right)

Larry Ellis - Funky Thing

Carleen & The Groovers - Can We Rap

Mickey & The Soul Generation - How Good Is Good

The Blenders - When You Git Through With It

Ernie/Top Notes - Dap Walk

Ray Frazier - I Who Have Nothing

Unknown - Egg Roll

Groove Merchants - There's Got To Be Somone for Me

Lil Lavair/Fab - Cold Heat

Highliters Band - Funky 16 Corners

Edited November 18, 2007 by J-Brew

[Guest miff]

Give It Up Or turn It Loose - on Urban from the late 80s/early 90s?

Knock it on the head.

No it want that

[Steve G]

Groove Merchants - There's Got To Be Somone for Me

This one goes down quite well in Northern rooms and has done for some time

[Dave Thorley]

It's probably got no place in a 'this is the traditional northern soul scene, we like what we know, and we know that we don't like funk...' etc type of venue, and in a way rightly so. Those venues will always be about the Northern Soul mindset and will eventually go because there will be no-one left to support them, not least kids who can't relate to the whole set up, etiquette, history etc. But you're actually wrong, Northern (or some 60's and 70's soul) goes hand-in-hand with some funk, just as it can go with 70's soul, jazz funk, disco etc if/when played to and by people that are into a broader spectrum of soul music, have a depth of knowledge in all fields and have the ability to sort the wheat from the chaff. But Funk at a 'traditional' nighter? 'Proper' hardcore underground funk - the kind that many of us have been into for years? Can't see the point really, especially when a lot of decent 60's soul sides clear the floor, and most of them sound like the stuff that fills it. Nights embracing the whole thing played to kids in an effort to make them stop listening to plastic pop shite, at least for a night? Yep, that's a good thing. Might not make them want to join the NS scene but it might make them investigate the music a bit deeper. And at the end of the day that's what matters.

Just reading the examples given, most of those are established soul scene spins - I think the thing is 'funk' not necessarily 'funky' - there's a big difference.

Top of my head, 10 hard funk tunes that would no doubt kill a NS dancefloor dead than a bottle of Domestos but that I'd expect to hear at a funk played on the NS scene night (if it were done right)

Larry Ellis - Funky Thing

Carleen & The Groovers - Can We Rap

Mickey & The Soul Generation - How Good Is Good

The Blenders - When You Git Through With It

Ernie/Top Notes - Dap Walk

Ray Frazier - I Who Have Nothing

Unknown - Egg Roll

Groove Merchants - There's Got To Be Somone for Me

Lil Lavair/Fab - Cold Heat

Highliters Band - Funky 16 Corners

Hi Mate

Who now has the Egg Roll, sold that to Keb many years ago on a Virtue studio disc. I thought he had tracked down who recorded it

[Jason S]

This one goes down quite well in Northern rooms and has done for some time

None i've been in - well done! It's a great tune

[Simon M]

Top tune this !! Would it work only in london and abroad ?

[Jason S]

Hi Mate

Who now has the Egg Roll, sold that to Keb many years ago on a Virtue studio disc. I thought he had tracked down who recorded it

Think it went to Japan, Dave - it was re-issued last year

[CAMBRIDGE SOUL]

SILKS last do had top 60's soul and modern from the 70's , 80's and 90's plus soulful house ! the dance floor was rockin' ! what a night.... is funk not included in soul ?

to me thats the beauty of the northern scene.... all types of soul.... it keeps it going

all the best

David

[Dave Thorley]

Top tune this !! Would it work only in london and abroad ?

All down to definition, sounds like a northern tune to me

[Simon M]

All down to definition, sounds like a northern tune to me

maybe the majority of people cant dance to this style of music on the NS scene now

Edited November 18, 2007 by Simon M

[Dave Thorley]

SILKS last do had top 60's soul and modern from the 70's , 80's and 90's plus soulful house ! the dance floor was rockin' ! what a night.... is funk not included in soul ?

to me thats the beauty of the northern scene.... all types of soul.... it keeps it going

all the best

David

Yes, but you have to remember, that to many that venue is daan Saath

[Soulfinger]

James Brown's - Sexy, Sexy, Sexy is one funky tune that ought to do it for a Northern audience imho, but I saw it completely clear the floor at 45 Carat Soul recently - I was, unfortunately, on my way back from the bar .

[CAMBRIDGE SOUL]

Yes, but you have to remember, that to many that venue is daan Saath

its north of london and they talk with a strange accent there ! ?????

[Dave Thorley]

its north of london and they talk with a strange accent there ! ?????

[Dave Thorley]

I think what this tread does demonstrate is the fragmentation, if not myopic view of the northern scene in some quarters. We have many that say 'This is my definition and it is the only definition and I'm not ready to accept any form of broader view'.

Have said this before, but at the height of Wigan's fame, you could stand in the mainroom and hear 60's/70's street funk, classic 4 to the floor, disco, what is now call crossover, all under the name of northern soul. But now people seem to want to re-write history and say that never happen.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Simon T]

Perhaps one, if not the, deciding factor is whether you can dance to it? If it's too far away from the traditional 4 beats to the bar or 70's dance beat that 'northern soul' do attendees are familiar with, they won't or can't dance to it, hence empty floor.

Is't 'proper' funk too syncopated?

[Simon M]

Perhaps one, if not the, deciding factor is whether you can dance to it? If it's too far away from the traditional 4 beats to the bar or 70's dance beat that 'northern soul' do attendees are familiar with, they won't or can't dance to it, hence empty floor.

Is't 'proper' funk too syncopated?

House music used to clear the floor , at London gigs around 1986 ,as the dancers were more used to funkier styles !!

Edited November 18, 2007 by Simon M

[Simon T]

House music used to clear the floor , at London gigs around 1986 ,as the dancers were more used to funkier styles !!

Si

Do you mean "used to funkier styles" as in used to stuff we used to listen to & collect around 81/2 i.e. stuff labelled "Jazz Funk" around that time? If so, can you remember any track being played on the 'northern scene'?

[Simon M]

Si

Do you mean "used to funkier styles" as in used to stuff we used to listen to & collect around 81/2 i.e. stuff labelled "Jazz Funk" around that time? If so, can you remember any track being played on the 'northern scene'?

Yeah thats right the dancers at Meltdown gigs were used to funkier styles under the banner of Rare Groove .. I cant really remember a track that went over to nighter scene from rare groove at the moment .

ps. Not really the Jazz Funk styles of 1980/82 .. although that was included at Rare Groove gigs too

Edited November 18, 2007 by Simon M

[Sunnysoul]

[Guest wrighty]

Perhaps one, if not the, deciding factor is whether you can dance to it? If it's too far away from the traditional 4 beats to the bar or 70's dance beat that 'northern soul' do attendees are familiar with, they won't or can't dance to it, hence empty floor.

Is't 'proper' funk too syncopated?

i think you've got a fair point simon, when people talk of not liking funk on here, the majority are referring to the james brown grunts and scream school of funk, which of course is not the be all and end all for people (like myself) who collect and dj anything and everything that has a funky 'edge' , whether it be hard vocal funk a la JB, instrumentals, moddy funk, disco, funky modern etc but increasingly more these days it may be a more 'northern' sound which in fairness a lot of people have got into as a natural progression away from the 'i only like funk mate' crowd, i know we've said it a thousand times before but at the end of the day its all soul music innit anyway for me the best tunes are the ones that combine a soulful vocal with funk instrumentation, a great example would be leroy clofer 'mr big man'....

mrbigman.mp3

Edited November 18, 2007 by wrighty

[Ian Dewhirst]

I think what this tread does demonstrate is the fragmentation, if not myopic view of the northern scene in some quarters. We have many that say 'This is my definition and it is the only definition and I'm not ready to accept any form of broader view'.

Have said this before, but at the height of Wigan's fame, you could stand in the mainroom and hear 60's/70's street funk, classic 4 to the floor, disco, what is now call crossover, all under the name of northern soul. But now people seem to want to re-write history and say that never happen.

Haha LOL. You hit the nail on the head Dave.

I remember the same arguements from '74 when Boby Franklin, Frankie Crocker, Phase 11, Prince George were being played........

But I was never too keen on Snoopy Dean.......

Ian D

[Guest soul99 easylay]

Ok so there might have always been "funky" tunes on the scene - but as for out and out funk, surely it should be slung in another room along with that modern disco malarky

[Guest]

James Brown's - Sexy, Sexy, Sexy is one funky tune that ought to do it for a Northern audience imho, but I saw it completely clear the floor at 45 Carat Soul recently - I was, unfortunately, on my way back from the bar .

Been playin`it for years.there a 6ts JB that is a big R+B thingy thats allmost the same dont know what it si tho` sexy sexy sexy is in my refosoul libary somewhere.

[Cunnie]

Ok so there might have always been "funky" tunes on the scene - but as for out and out funk, surely it should be slung in another room along with that modern disco malarky

So much for 'One Nation Under A Groove'

[Crumb]

Been playin`it for years.there a 6ts JB that is a big R+B thingy thats allmost the same dont know what it si tho` sexy sexy sexy is in my refosoul libary somewhere.

Money Wont Change You ?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Been playin`it for years.there a 6ts JB that is a big R+B thingy thats allmost the same dont know what it si tho` sexy sexy sexy is in my refosoul libary somewhere.

Also worth checking for uptempo/Northern James Brown are:-

There Was A Time (better than Gene Chandler's in my opinion)

Hey America (I think this used to be played at some Northern venues - especially the inst)

I Love You (For Sentimental Reasons) - just great

Ian D

[Sean Hampsey]

Remember hearing NF Porter "Keep On Keeping On" at an All Dayer in the early 70's.

I turned to this guy and said "Nice to hear a bit of quality Funk every now and then"

He says "Funk... it's not Funk... its pure Norven... innit?"

You'll never hear a harder piece of In Your Mutha Funkin' Face..........F U N K!

(IMO)

Sean

[Guest]

Money Wont Change You ?

I would like to think not ............would mind one of above.

[Guest Andy BB]

gis a shout!

[Guest]

gis a shout!

Andy!!!!!

[Steve G]

So much for 'One Nation Under A Groove'

...errr featuring one Sidney Barnes on backing vocals

Perhaps the "tubbies"can't dance to the funkier vibes

[Guest TonyCrampton]

i think you've got a fair point simon, when people talk of not liking funk on here, the majority are referring to the james brown grunts and scream school of funk, which of course is not the be all and end all for people (like myself) who collect and dj anything and everything that has a funky 'edge' , whether it be hard vocal funk a la JB, instrumentals, moddy funk, disco, funky modern etc but increasingly more these days it may be a more 'northern' sound which in fairness a lot of people have got into as a natural progression away from the 'i only like funk mate' crowd, i know we've said it a thousand times before but at the end of the day its all soul music innit anyway for me the best tunes are the ones that combine a soulful vocal with funk instrumentation, a great example would be leroy clofer 'mr big man'....

mrbigman.mp3

Good call Wrighty, My thoughts exactly,Anything that is played or sung from the heart is Soul music and I like you play a right old mixture as long as it has a funky edge.

My problem is I like it makes collecting more expensive as when you go digging you are always gonna turn up something.

Still at least you dont go home dissapointed!!

Cheers Tony.

[Guest]

Remember hearing NF Porter "Keep On Keeping On" at an All Dayer in the early 70's.

I turned to this guy and said "Nice to hear a bit of quality Funk every now and then"

He says "Funk... it's not Funk... its pure Norven... innit?"

You'll never hear a harder piece of In Your Mutha Funkin' Face..........F U N K!

(IMO)

Sean

This was and this is one of my all time favs. Brilliant

[Guest Una Scot-Oz]

Also, same old problem as with Modern Soul or Crossover. It's all down to definition, which changes with everyone you speak to. Many northern classics were as someone else has said, indead seen as funk in their day.

Gene Chandler-There was a time(A James Brown tune)

East Coast Connection-Summer in the parks

Fabulous Moonlighters-Forgranted

Diane Jenkins-I need you

Edwin Starr-Time

World Column-So is the sun

To name but a few, all were released and promoted as funk. I have steered clear of later disco funk.

I love all these (and The Flaming Emeralds!) and when I went to Wigan I knew these were "Saturday night downstairs" records. I didn't think of them as Funk, after my long break from the scene and hearing them again (and still enjoy dancing to some) they do sound funky and still fit in - because they have a good dance beat? Some of the heavier funk sounds clear the floor - I think, because it creates a different atmosphere... not dancy tunes. They make my soul feel heavy, not light and bouncy. That's just my strange view on it.

Ska and Reggae is dancy.

[chrissie]

...errr featuring one Sidney Barnes on backing vocals

Perhaps the "tubbies"can't dance to the funkier vibes

No I am not tubby, I juist don't like it. It, doesn't give me that spine chill feeling that earlier soul music does...... and as you well know, after a few vodkas I will dance to most things, I even vagually remember doing the "bump" with a certain person on Friday night

QoFxx

Edited November 19, 2007 by chrissie