Sorry if this has been discussed before.

But how rare is a rare record? What happens to them over the years, does the dog bury your favourite tune, does the baby chew on one when teething, has your mother in law just sat on it? Or do they get thrown away? By mistake, moving house - has anyone left a box of records in the attic?

Ok small lables issue small amounts, but how many will they press to be viable in the first place?

  paup-ine said:

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

But how rare is a rare record? What happens to them over the years, does the dog bury your favourite tune, does the baby chew on one when teething, has your mother in law just sat on it? Or do they get thrown away? By mistake, moving house - has anyone left a box of records in the attic?

Ok small lables issue small amounts, but how many will they press to be viable in the first place?

I'd say 500 or less.. that kind of quantity you're gonna see being sold by an artist at a show, out of the trunk of their car or by hand at their merch table. I would think once singed to a Indy label, maybe 1000. With a quantity like that, given it's a regional artist, WAY UNDER THE RADAR, you are probably gonna have a bit of hunt on your hands to try and find a copy of their release.. Given that kind of quantity, normally 10 or 15 years down the line, those few releases are most likely going to end up in collections or in the boxes of Dj's. That's where the tough part begins. You're not going to see them on the shelves or in the bins, because they are all sunk into collections.

Example: Metronome label out of San Antonio. The label only released maybe 6 singles. Each being maybe around 500 pressing releases. Those singles didn't chart, didn't move on to a major label for distribution, and so now the only way to hunt them down is; through collectors, diggin' way deep in a regional location, or a chance find. We are talking about a pressing from 1972 with only 500 pressed quantities for local distribution. Where are they now?

OR sometimes, the single was NEVER released and so now you're on the hunt for a promo only.

hope that helps, just my simple opinion.. then again, I'm not a big dog here.

J-

  SoulBoy74 said:

I'd say 500 or less.. that kind of quantity you're gonna see being sold by an artist at a show, out of the trunk of their car or by hand at their merch table. I would think once singed to a Indy label, maybe 1000. With a quantity like that, given it's a regional artist, WAY UNDER THE RADAR, you are probably gonna have a bit of hunt on your hands to try and find a copy of their release.. Given that kind of quantity, normally 10 or 15 years down the line, those few releases are most likely going to end up in collections or in the boxes of Dj's. That's where the tough part begins. You're not going to see them on the shelves or in the bins, because they are all sunk into collections.

Example: Metronome label out of San Antonio. The label only released maybe 6 singles. Each being maybe around 500 pressing releases. Those singles didn't chart, didn't move on to a major label for distribution, and so now the only way to hunt them down is; through collectors, diggin' way deep in a regional location, or a chance find. We are talking about a pressing from 1972 with only 500 pressed quantities for local distribution. Where are they now?

OR sometimes, the single was NEVER released and so now you're on the hunt for a promo only.

hope that helps, just my simple opinion.. then again, I'm not a big dog here.

J-

Thanks. Im just a nobody, but its interesting.

You see lots of sellers offering stuff, saying its 'rare'. Say bobby kline on MB for instance. Thats rare, but how rare. Are we talking hundreds or less ??.

Its just interesting stuff !!!!

Cherrs

  paup-ine said:

Thanks. Im just a nobody, but its interesting.

You see lots of sellers offering stuff, saying its 'rare'. Say bobby kline on MB for instance. Thats rare, but how rare. Are we talking hundreds or less ??.

Its just interesting stuff !!!!

Cherrs

correction: MetroDome

cheers,

J-

  paup-ine said:

Thanks. Im just a nobody, but its interesting.

You see lots of sellers offering stuff, saying its 'rare'. Say bobby kline on MB for instance. Thats rare, but how rare. Are we talking hundreds or less ??.

Its just interesting stuff !!!!

Cherrs

Always amazes me how many of the rare items you see going thorugh the auctions at various sites in a year.

  paup-ine said:

You see lots of sellers offering stuff, saying its 'rare'. Say bobby kline on MB for instance. Thats rare, but how rare. Are we talking hundreds or less ??.

Its just interesting stuff !!!!

Cherrs

It's not as rare as the price they have been going for would suggest IMHO.

There are many records way over priced due to demand rather than supply.

Edited November 12, 200717 yr by chalky

I'd say all the records I want are worth very little and are very common. Until I get them

Here is a small list of very common, cheap records, if anyone has them, let me know.

Sherlock Holmes-Part III

Del-Larks-Queen City (Demo)

Tolbert-Rojac

Eddie Campbell-Artco

  chalky said:

It's not as rare as the price they have been going for would suggest IMHO.

There are many records way over priced due to demand rather than supply.

How much is Walter and the Untouchables ,Ive only seen one for sale ?

  chalky said:

It's not as rare as the price they have been going for would suggest IMHO.

There are many records way over priced due to demand rather than supply.

But to be fair, this has always been a dance floor driven scene

  Simon M said:

How much is Walter and the Untouchables ,Ive only seen one for sale ?

seen a few over the years the last one being I think £400. Would agree hard one to get. Can anyone keep up with this these days

  Dave Thorley said:

But to be fair, this has always been a dance floor driven scene

exactly but it should be the rarity that dictates the price.

  chalky said:

seen a few over the years the last one being I think £400. Would agree hard one to get. Can anyone keep up with this these days

You can pitch it down ,like JT does with his mental Gemini's acetate

Have you got a scan you can pm of W&U Chalky

Rare soul can also have the meaning of sounds you hear rarely, if that makes sense.

There was a time when it was public knowledge IF a 'big' find took place in a warehouse in the US where all of a sudden 100 copies of a hard to find record had come to light, but I cant see that happening now or even in the last ten years.

It has been known that a dealer found a hundred copies of a great sound, got DJs to break it in and then release 2 or 3 copies a month, so they could get the best price etc.

A good example is the Ringleaders - Baby What, etc - Mpac.

£30 a copy for months back in about 79, then bam its a £1 record when all those who could afford a weeks wages had bought one.

The dark side is alive and well on the scene. Buy with caution.

Ed

they are only rare when i want to buy them lol

  chalky said:

seen a few over the years the last one being I think £400. Would agree hard one to get. Can anyone keep up with this these days

exactly but it should be the rarity that dictates the price.

No, every one wants to be a DJ now days and own the tune SECOND , it all about 'Look at the size of my dick' mentality, so all intelligence goes out the window when buying. Ferrari's cost little more than Audi's to build, but sell at 3 times the price, if not more

  Simon M said:

Have you got a scan you can pm of W&U Chalky

I thought I took a copy of the scan of the last one I saw for sale but can't seem to find it. There's a scan of the flip on John Ridleys site... https://www.sirshambling.com/artists/W/walter_b.htm

  tomangoes said:

A good example is the Ringleaders - Baby What, etc - Mpac.

£30 a copy for months back in about 79, then bam its a £1 record when all those who could afford a weeks wages had bought one.

Ed

should be £30 now

  chalky said:

I thought I took a copy of the scan of the last one I saw for sale but can't seem to find it. There's a scan of the flip on John Ridleys site... https://www.sirshambling.com/artists/W/walter_b.htm

LOL this will shock bearsy

https://www.sirshambling.com/artists/A/appointments.htm

Edited November 12, 200717 yr by Simon M

  Dave Thorley said:

I'd say all the records I want are worth very little and are very common. Until I get them

Here is a small list of very common, cheap records, if anyone has them, let me know.

Sherlock Holmes-Part III

Del-Larks-Queen City (Demo)

Tolbert-Rojac

Eddie Campbell-Artco

Dave,

Yeh Tolbert is cheap, my m8 picked one up @ auction for $55!!!!

Spot.

  spot said:

Dave,

Yeh Tolbert is cheap, my m8 picked one up @ auction for $55!!!!

Spot.

Hey Up Spot

Don't tell Malayka that it's her top want

Dave

  chalky said:

exactly but it should be the rarity that dictates the price.

You know that I hate to disagree with you Chalks .....but shouldn't quality and rarity dictate price rather than rarity alone.....a shit tune is a shit tune regardless of rarity.

We may have varied taste (thank fcuk ) but I think the majority can recognise a quality tune, and if its rare to boot then the value will inevitably increase.

Agreed that a dancefloor packer will attract more potential buyers (DJs etc) and will therefore push the price up somewhat, but on genuinely rare quality tunes I think the value would usually still reach a similar figure with or without the dancefloor reaction.

  tomangoes said:

A good example is the Ringleaders - Baby What, etc - Mpac.

£30 a copy for months back in about 79, then bam its a £1 record when all those who could afford a weeks wages had bought one.

The dark side is alive and well on the scene. Buy with caution.

Ed

Always a good idea to do 'due diligence' I think. The Ringleaders was a common record in the early 70's - it used to be in everyone's sales boxes and was routinely listed @ anywhere between 50p-£1.00.

Mind you, I wish I'd kept a copy of every cheapy over the years! There's loads of hugely expensive records now which were cheapies on Brian '45' Phillips lists and also lots which were cheapies on Soul Bowl's 70's lists as well.

Fascinating subject though. Plus you can't always make assumptions about the rarity of certain labels either. I famously turned down one of the first Billy Woods for £3.00 because it was on the Sussex label which generally pressed everything in massive quantity - The Soul Searchers, Bill Withers, Creative Source, Dennis Coffey etc, etc, so I just figured that there'd be at least a few thousand of 'em knocking around..... Sadly for me I never did find another Billy Woods on Sussex - EVER! It's always pissed me off - I even spoke to the owner of the label, Clarence Avant and he couldn't even remember it........

Ian D

  Simon M said:

LOL this will shock bearsy

https://www.sirshambling.com/artists/A/appointments.htm

I think the other side is a lot better Simon, is this rare?

  Simon M said:

LOL this will shock bearsy

https://www.sirshambling.com/artists/A/appointments.htm

That blokes a nutter..........I saw you therrrre de de de de, de de oomph. My biggest want.

  Mace said:

You know that I hate to disagree with you Chalks .....but shouldn't quality and rarity dictate price rather than rarity alone.....a shit tune is a shit tune regardless of rarity.

We may have varied taste (thank fcuk ) but I think the majority can recognise a quality tune, and if its rare to boot then the value will inevitably increase.

Agreed that a dancefloor packer will attract more potential buyers (DJs etc) and will therefore push the price up somewhat, but on genuinely rare quality tunes I think the value would usually still reach a similar figure with or without the dancefloor reaction.

Quality to some extent will always be a factor in the price. But I've seen very rare records fetch a pittance when other records which number in the hundreds still fetch a few hundred quid, stupidity IMO. but half those buying seem to be trophy hunters rather than collectors

  Simon M said:

LOL this will shock bearsy

https://www.sirshambling.com/artists/A/appointments.htm

That blokes a nutter..........I saw you therrrre de de de de, de de oomph. My biggest want.

me want it too

  Dazz said:

I think the other side is a lot better Simon, is this rare?

Wat record Daz ?

what was rare sometimes aint now!!!!!!!!! slow fizz - the sapphires £30 in 74, not much more now!!!

  Dave Thorley said:

I'd say all the records I want are worth very little and are very common. Until I get them

Here is a small list of very common, cheap records, if anyone has them, let me know.

Sherlock Holmes-Part III

Del-Larks-Queen City (Demo)

Tolbert-Rojac

Eddie Campbell-Artco

Dave, I would be very happy even with an issue of the Del-Larks...

  chalky said:

It's not as rare as the price they have been going for would suggest IMHO.

There are many records way over priced due to demand rather than supply.

Would agree 100%.Exus Trek being the prime example together with some of the more sought after Okeh stuff (IMHO)

  Roccia said:

Dave, I would be very happy even with an issue of the Del-Larks...

75p @ Jim Wilson's in Shoreditch in 1973 LOL.....he had a few water-damaged ones. A lot people missed it originally 'cos they thought they were a doo-wop group.........

Ian D

  chalky said:

should be £30 now

paid £2 quid for mine in 79 off keith minsull ,the same night he fell asleep at the casino and hes false teeth fell out and lodged on his shoulder!when ever that record is played i think of keith !Those were the days,never regaded this as a rarity !

BAZ A

it dosen't always matter how many are pressed up to be rare in terms of although not soul The Beatles would be rare in any shape or form maybe not in some original stuff being only £40 or whatever but still worth more then your typical it's only worth £1

and wasn't it a thing it's only worth as much as someone would pay means if i was to pay say £100 for some Black Lace 12 inch as an exmaple (not that i would) would that make it worth £100

  WPaulVanDyk said:

and wasn't it a thing it's only worth as much as someone would pay means if i was to pay say £100 for some Black Lace 12 inch as an exmaple (not that i would) would that make it worth £100

no...it'd make you a daft pillock

  chalky said:

Quality to some extent will always be a factor in the price. But I've seen very rare records fetch a pittance when other records which number in the hundreds still fetch a few hundred quid, stupidity IMO. but half those buying seem to be trophy hunters rather than collectors

Like any market, the price should be based on Supply and Demand, its healthy! Even if it does not help limited funds collectors like me! Trophy hunters are the price we all have to pay for being on a popular, dynamic scene!