Cover-ups What Do You Think Of Them?

[Guest]

Always suggested to me that the 45 is

A) On a major lable or known lable or the artist is known

and/or

Someone is sitting on a load of them and it's a scam to hype the price.

What do you think?

Derek

Edited November 11, 2007 by blackwhite

[Guest]

Always suggested to me that the 45 is

A) On a major lable or known lable or the artist is known

and/or

Someone is sitting on a load of them and it's a scam to hype the price.

What do you think?

Derek

I dont mind as long as the owners dont think they own all rights to uncovering the things,cover ups are only there to be un-covered aint they

[Chalky]

Always suggested to me that the 45 is

A) On a major lable or known lable or the artist is known

and/or

Someone is sitting on a load of them and it's a scam to hype the price.

What do you think?

Derek

I know current cover ups that fit none of the above criteria and loads from the past that don't either.

[Dave Thorley]

Cover up's originally was an attempt to slow down the bootleggers, sadly that is still the case today.

Dave

[Guest]

I know current cover ups that fit none of the above criteria and loads from the past that don't either.

I remember countless examples at TOTW for instance dealers giving the "only got one copy of this cover-up" selling it then dipping into a holdall and pulling out another and another and another all night long.

So if a record is genuinely rare what is the need to cover it up?

Admittedly i used to enjoy hearing Guy H introducing his cover-ups, the cover-up title was usually longer than the song.

Derek

[chrissie]

Always suggested to me that the 45 is

A) On a major lable or known lable or the artist is known

and/or

Someone is sitting on a load of them and it's a scam to hype the price.

What do you think?

Derek

They really irritate me and I really don't get the point of it all, never have done but maybe I'm missing something...........wouldn't be the first time

QoFxx

[Quinvy]

I think they are all part of the mystique. If someone has found a tune that isn't known. They deserve to get some plays out of it. They have done the hard work, and deserve any kudos.

Mind you, I've heard some c/ups that are so bad, I never want to here them again.

I've tried covering a few up, but people just walk up and tell me what they are.

[Prophonics 2029]

I think they are all part of the mystique. Yes, the unobtainable is what the scene is for me, the stuff you will never get and don't know the real name but the song drives you mad for it.

[soul45s]

I've tried covering a few up, but people just walk up and tell me what they are.

[Simsy]

Cover-ups are great! They add an especial spice to the northern collecting/dj'ing side of things.

[Guest Bearsy]

Cover-ups are great! They add an especial spice to the northern collecting/dj'ing side of things.

I agree Ian, still bloody annoying though even if you know you will probably never ever own it I hate secrets

[Cunnie]

Back in the day it was understandable to stop the bootleggers I suppose but they still managed to get hold of things & even sometimes release them under the covered title & artist.

Now though I can't really see the point & it does the original artist no favours whatsoever.

Seems a bit ridiculous when a track on a major label like Atlantic (if that's what it's on?) is covered up as mentioned on another thread.

Imagine if you were the artist & found out your work was being credited to someone else.

Couple of years ago Him by Kenny Thomas was being played on national radio covered up by well respected DJ's prior to it's release. What's the point of that?

Had to laugh though as I heard Tony Blackburn of all people play it as Kenny Thomas & a week after Richard Searling played it as Him by Him.

Should have known better me thinks

[Simon T]

Cover up's originally was an attempt to slow down the bootleggers, sadly that is still the case today.

Dave

More like in the 70's they were covered up long enough  to allow them to be pressed at the Monach pressing plant and imported to be sold here?

[Russ Vickers]

Cover ups are great & part of the scene & long may they continue.

Russ

[Dave Thorley]

What ever the reason, they're a bit of fun, part of the folklaw of the scene. Nothing to get all upset about, much more important things to worry about.

Like when the F&*k is my architect going to get my planning application finished.

[KevH]

love 'em.Part of the scene.Nothing better than hearing the latest cover up and trying to figure it out.If its not rare,its a bit of fun,nowt wrong with that.If it is rare,then it remains exclusive for a while.

[Simon M]

Very annoying back the 80's when there seemed to be loads. Thankfully there's not many about today .. Butch has the best of em... I can see why he still does it because many want to copy his plays

[Mike]

here's a thought

nowadays does the ease of info via internet have a effect ?

[Simon M]

here's a thought

nowadays does the ease of info via internet have a effect ?

Yeah it certainly makes it easier to uncover things

[Mike]

Yeah it certainly makes it easier to uncover things

yep

though I was going down the road that it makes people think twice before giving out details

[Simon M]

yep

though I was going down the road that it makes people think twice before giving out details

Also you can record with your phone now at events , save it to your pc , and then when a soundfile appears on ebay or on a google/msn search of the record ,its easy to uncover it because you are familiar with the song etc

ps. sadly Butch is pretty good on the internet

Edited November 12, 2007 by Simon M

[Dave Thorley]

My son has software on his phone that lets him take a small sample as a record is being played then searches the web and 6 out 10 times it comes back with the artist and title name, how scary is that. He demonstrated it to an amazed group at the last Soulfusion in Gloucester. He sampled a bunch of northern tunes as they were being played from the back of the room, over all the noise.

Dave

Edited November 12, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Len]

I've tried covering a few up, but people just walk up and tell me what they are.

Yep - Everytime!!! I think now days most people do it to try and keep their set their own. But it is just a bit of fun...(Well that's my excuse when I get it terribly wrong!!!)

Len.

"SILK" Rare Soul Night Midland Road, Wellingborough Northants NN8 1HF Saturday 24th November 2007 DJS - JOHN MANSHIP - MARK BICKNELL - DAVE GREET (YATE) - Plus resident - LENNY DOPSON- Info - 07970 361216

*****PLAYING 'DAMN' GOOD SOUL MUSIC!!!*****

*FREE 'LIVE' CD OF THE EMBANKMENT CLUB'S FINAL HOUR TO FIRST 100 THROUGH THE DOOR.*

[Simon M]

Also Ive never understood why people keep things coverd , when quite a few people know it

maybe they have forgotten the real record , used superglue with the paper , and cant uncover it

Edited November 12, 2007 by Simon M

[Prophonics 2029]

I thought one of the main reasons for a cover up was to get the record past The Flat Earth'ers, people who thought Northern was Northern and that there was no more, no newies only oldies so if the artist had a string of great records more the better.

The Internet and the general movement of global traffic makes it all a lot easier than back in the 70ts.

[Len]

My son has software on his phone that lets him take a small sample as a record is being played then searches the web and 6 out 10 times it comes back with the artist and title name, how scary is that. He demonstrated it to an amazed group at the last Soulfusion in Gloucester. He sampled a bunch of northern tunes as they were being played from the back of the room, over all the noise.

Dave

Yep seen that done, Blo*dy scarey! - Another typical 'Northern Soul Thing' that happens is when something is covered up there is an almost histeria created (If it gets noticed) Everyone desperatelly wants it...As soon as it's 'Out there' and they all find out what it is, they lose interest very fast...

Len.

"SILK" Rare Soul Night Midland Road, Wellingborough Northants NN8 1HF Saturday 24th November 2007 DJS - JOHN MANSHIP - MARK BICKNELL - DAVE GREET (YATE) - Plus resident - LENNY DOPSON- Info - 07970 361216

*****PLAYING 'DAMN' GOOD SOUL MUSIC!!!*****

*FREE 'LIVE' CD OF THE EMBANKMENT CLUB'S FINAL HOUR TO FIRST 100 THROUGH THE DOOR.*

[Gert Mark]

Theyre good fun, and keep us punters guessing.

but essentially its, OOH I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DONT KNOW.

Can it feed you? no? well shut the fcuk up then. Cover this.

Ok maybe having a bad day.

[Soul-slider]

Cover ups are great & part of the scene & long may they continue.

Russ

This scene did'nt invent the 'cover up'.....Jamaicans were doing it in the 50's & 60's!

Mind, they used to scratch the names off the labels!!!!

[Chalky]

Back in the day it was understandable to stop the bootleggers I suppose but they still managed to get hold of things & even sometimes release them under the covered title & artist.

Now though I can't really see the point & it does the original artist no favours whatsoever.

quality soul is getting harder and harder to find and some collectors put a great deal of effort in to find the next biggie. Covering them up gives them a little exclusivity until they are uncovered, surely they are entitled to that for the effort they put in to keep things fresh otherwise what would the point be? Might as well just pack the Djing in and just collect.

I doubt very much it would do the original artists any favours one it's uncovered either. Take the last big cover up to get uncovered...Butch's Masqueraders which turned out to be The Parliaments. What are they gonna get out of it? Sod all. The fact the record is so good and it was covered up created lots of interest in the record. Half the fun is trying to find out what they are!!

Edited November 12, 2007 by chalky

[KevH]

quality soul is getting harder and harder to find and some collectors put a great deal of effort in to find the next biggie. Covering them up gives them a little exclusivity until they are uncovered, surely they are entitled to that for the effort they put in to keep things fresh otherwise what would the point be? Might as well just pack the Djing in and just collect.

I doubtr very much it would do the original artists any favours one it's uincovered either. Take the last big cover up to get uncovered...Butch's Masqueraders which turned out to be The Parliaments. What are they gonna get out of it? Sod all. The fact the record is so good and it was covered up created lots of interest in the record. Half the fun is trying to find out what they are!!

spot on Chalky......

[Simon M]

I think Cunnie is aware of new release music being coverd up!!

In the case of Parliamnets , thats a brilliant northern record and will get even more attention now more DJ's have it , as Soul Sam will play it as much as he has Joseph Webster etc etc

Edited November 12, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest]

quality soul is getting harder and harder to find and some collectors put a great deal of effort in to find the next biggie. Covering them up gives them a little exclusivity until they are uncovered, surely they are entitled to that for the effort they put in to keep things fresh otherwise what would the point be? Might as well just pack the Djing in and just collect.

I doubtr very much it would do the original artists any favours one it's uincovered either. Take the last big cover up to get uncovered...Butch's Masqueraders which turned out to be The Parliaments. What are they gonna get out of it? Sod all. The fact the record is so good and it was covered up created lots of interest in the record. Half the fun is trying to find out what they are!!

So un-cover these then,no one else as managed

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.p...mp;#entry615430

[pow wow mik]

Think they're essential to make DJ sets unique. A lot of work / money / luck goes into finding something really good, unknown and new, especially nowadays. Bit annoying if you have that luck due to looking hard and then someone just puts a saved search on ebay and sits at home and gets it for cheap.

A lot of people are information leaches who never look or take a risk based on their own judgement, just copy other people.

I'd never not tell someone who introduced new stuff to me, but dont see why anyone has the right for one-way info.

And as for the artists, how does it possibly hurt them? Either cover up track is shit and would never get played / re-issued anyway, or it's good and will eventually be un covered, makes no difference to if the record had never been found at all.

Just gives the finder a bit of exclusive time to play the record.

I'm always grateful when people tell me what stuff is that i dont know but never expect them to, or think that it's my right to know.

Edited November 12, 2007 by mik parry

[Cunnie]

quality soul is getting harder and harder to find and some collectors put a great deal of effort in to find the next biggie. Covering them up gives them a little exclusivity until they are uncovered, surely they are entitled to that for the effort they put in to keep things fresh otherwise what would the point be? Might as well just pack the Djing in and just collect.

I doubt very much it would do the original artists any favours one it's uncovered either. Take the last big cover up to get uncovered...Butch's Masqueraders which turned out to be The Parliaments. What are they gonna get out of it? Sod all. The fact the record is so good and it was covered up created lots of interest in the record. Half the fun is trying to find out what they are!!

Point taken regarding genuine rare stuff like the Parliaments Chalky.

When you look back though there have been some pretty pointless cover ups, things like the Cate Brothers spring to mind.

[Dave Thorley]

quality soul is getting harder and harder to find and some collectors put a great deal of effort in to find the next biggie. Covering them up gives them a little exclusivity until they are uncovered, surely they are entitled to that for the effort they put in to keep things fresh otherwise what would the point be? Might as well just pack the Djing in and just collect.

I doubt very much it would do the original artists any favours one it's uncovered either. Take the last big cover up to get uncovered...Butch's Masqueraders which turned out to be The Parliaments. What are they gonna get out of it? Sod all. The fact the record is so good and it was covered up created lots of interest in the record. Half the fun is trying to find out what they are!!

Maybe not, due to the interest created by Butch, now the record may get leased over here for release or CD inclusion, so they or the writers get a bit of cash. Long live the C/U

Dave

[Chalky]

Point taken regarding genuine rare stuff like the Parliaments Chalky.

When you look back though there have been some pretty pointless cover ups, things like the Cate Brothers spring to mind.

I agree but they still create interest which can only be good even if it is for a short space of time.

Maybe not, due to the interest created by Butch, now the record may get leased over here for release or CD inclusion, so they or the writers get a bit of cash. Long live the C/U

Dave

does anyone know who the Parliaments are on Cabell? Doubt they will ever benifit from the record. Any royalties from a cd would probably be swallowed up in costs to the label owner etc.

[Simon M]

Sombody might find the Parliaments on Cable now though I think that would be a good thing ?

Edited November 12, 2007 by Simon M

[boba]

I agree but they still create interest which can only be good even if it is for a short space of time.

does anyone know who the Parliaments are on Cabell? Doubt they will ever benifit from the record. Any royalties from a cd would probably be swallowed up in costs to the label owner etc.

Is is not THE parliaments, the george clinton group? I always though it was.

I had seen the harder parliaments cabell record (NOT cry no more brother) sell for a few hundred dollars a few times over the last 5 years. I didn't buy it because I thought the one I had was sort of weak (although it is much better than the one I have now that I've heard it). Now it goes through ebay in VG and goes for $4100 and doesn't meet the reserve??? Is the cover up responsible for the crazy price or just the DJ play?

[Simon M]

I had seen the harder parliaments cabell record (NOT cry no more brother) sell for a few hundred dollars a few times over the last 5 years. I didn't buy it because I thought the one I had was sort of weak (although it is much better than the one I have now that I've heard it). Now it goes through ebay in VG and goes for $4100 and doesn't meet the reserve??? Is the cover up responsible for the crazy price or just the DJ play?

[Chalky]

Is is not THE parliaments, the george clinton group? I always though it was.

I had seen the harder parliaments cabell record (NOT cry no more brother) sell for a few hundred dollars a few times over the last 5 years. I didn't buy it because I thought the one I had was sort of weak (although it is much better than the one I have now that I've heard it). Now it goes through ebay in VG and goes for $4100 and doesn't meet the reserve??? Is the cover up responsible for the crazy price or just the DJ play?

Dunno Bob, I didn't think they were the same I thought Rainy Day was rarer than Cry No More, seen far more of the Cry No More. The price is down to the interest created by Butch and the fact that it is a big record for him also the lack of copies in circulation. Most records Butch plays others want and are willing to pay.

Edited November 12, 2007 by chalky

[Simon M]

Butch can play a £5 record and in a few months its £500 !!

[Dave Thorley]

Butch can play a £5 record and in a few months its £500 !!

I wish he'd play a few £5 records I've got 20 copies of

[Guest]

Butch can play a £5 record and in a few months its £500 !!

I`m the same in reverse

[Simon M]

I wish he'd play a few £5 records I've got 20 copies of

You dont sell records for £5 Dave

[Dave Thorley]

I`m the same in reverse

Now that's what I call a talent

[Dave Thorley]

You dont sell records for £5 Dave

Show how long it is, since you have looked through my stock on Gemm

Edited November 12, 2007 by Dave Thorley

[Simon M]

Show how long it is, that you have looked through my stock on Gemm

Thats very true Dave .

The thing is Butch is looking hard for different records and others are not , he'll get em cheap and others will have to pay $$$

Edited November 12, 2007 by Simon M

[Prophonics 2029]

Is it Butch or that he plays at the right venues or both.

[boba]

Dunno Bob, I didn't think they were the same I thought Rainy Day was rarer than Cry No More, seen far more of the Cry No More. The price is down to the interest created by Butch and the fact that it is a big record for him also the lack of copies in circulation. Most records Butch plays others want and are willing to pay.

I agree rainy day is rarer and better than cry no more, I'm just saying that I had seen it for sale at least 3-4 times in the last 5 years before it became a $5000 record...

[Chalky]

I agree rainy day is rarer and better than cry no more, I'm just saying that I had seen it for sale at least 3-4 times in the last 5 years before it became a $5000 record...

thing is tho' no one knew it or realised that it was Butch's Masqueraders cover up.