Well Here Goes

[chrissie]

Going to post this and then going to leave you all to fight it out.

My main complaint about NS these days is that it is becoming (or has become) a MAN thing.

When I was first involved in about 72 there was always a distinction between M & F and was always a male thing but not to the extent it is now. We all went to Wigan or wherever together and there was no sexual distinction just mates having a night out.

I wont go to some of the best gigs near me because it's male orientated and a single woman (all be it of a certain age) is frowned upon and treated as a NS moron or just as there on the pull. Girls, did you see the men in Prestatyn who would want to pull there anway.

I just enjoy the music and the atmosphere so don't fret we are not after your precious 45s, GIRLS JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Appologies for spelling grammer etc as had a drink - or two.

[Rob Wigley]

What was the name of the sex change record dealer who used to have the stuffed parrot in a cage behind his stall ?

Prehaps most Northern soul bloke types are a bit weary of a femme fetal as they all seem to say "Me missus don't like the music and don't understand me talking bollocks about records all night"

Enjoy it while you can !

[Guest NASHEE]

What was the name of the sex change record dealer who used to have the stuffed parrot in a cage behind his stall ?

Prehaps most Northern soul bloke types are a bit weary of a femme fetal as they all seem to say "Me missus don't like the music and don't understand me talking bollocks about records all night"

Enjoy it while you can !

link

ROB THE STICK

I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO ROBYN..

[Billy Freemantle]

I think the train-spotting side of it is probably male.

Most of the very women who have liked what what has come to be known as Northern over the years have not given a toss who poroduced a record or what label it was on who how much it was worth. That probably doesn't include the women on this site though. Or does it?

Come to that, how many guys have apprached the music in the same way? Just as unconcerned music lovers and consumers rather than hobbyists. I'll hold my hand up.

[Guest rachel]

Going to post this and then going to leave you all to fight it out.

My main complaint about NS these days is that it is becoming (or has become) a MAN thing.

I wont go to some of the best gigs near me because it's male orientated and a single woman (all be it of a certain age) is frowned upon and treated as a NS moron or just as there on the pull.  Girls, did you see the men in Prestatyn who would want to pull there anway.

I  just enjoy the music and the atmosphere so don't fret we are not after your precious 45s, GIRLS JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Appologies for spelling grammer etc as had a drink - or two.

link

Yes it's male dominated, but not really come across the attitude you're talking about. Yes some men (particularly older) assume you've either come along because your someone's girlfriend, or that you're into the music but 'know' nothing. Once you speak to people though and they realise you're genuinely interested that soon passes. 'Anorak' tendencies in any field seem to be predominantly male - not sure if this is a brain chemistry or a cultural thing (or how I ended up with them!! )

There's been the very rare occasion that I've felt uncomfortable about sleazy drunken blokes getting too close. :angry: Happens everywhere though - and certainly less on the northern scene than in 'normal' nightclubs.

But in general I've got loads of male mates on the scene, don't often feel looked down upon and nobody's ever expressed the opinion that they thought I was there for anything other than the music.

[Guest]

Going to post this and then going to leave you all to fight it out.

My main complaint about NS these days is that it is becoming (or has become) a MAN thing.

link

You are right, it is male dominated, which is a pity - and embarrassing. On occassions I have taken not soulie mates along to small local northern nights with the idea of introducing them to the music. Upon entering the club, the site that greets them is one of all men dancing and speaking together, with only about two women in the room. I look at my mates and know they are clenching their buttocks and thinking ''Oh no, he's brought me to the Blue Oyster Club''.

There should definitely be more females involved on the scene.

[Guest]

Yes it's male dominated, but not really come across the attitude you're talking about. Yes some men (particularly older) assume you've either come along because your someone's girlfriend, or that you're into the music but 'know' nothing. Once you speak to people though and they realise you're genuinely interested that soon passes. 'Anorak' tendencies in any field seem to be predominantly male - not sure if this is a brain chemistry or a cultural thing (or how I ended up with them!!  )

There's been the very rare occasion that I've felt uncomfortable about sleazy drunken blokes getting too close.  :angry: Happens everywhere though - and certainly less on the northern scene than in 'normal' nightclubs.

But in general I've got loads of male mates on the scene, don't often feel looked down upon and nobody's ever expressed the opinion that they thought I was there for anything other than the music.

link

Took the words right out of the mouth!

[chrissie]

Yes it's male dominated, but not really come across the attitude you're talking about. Yes some men (particularly older) assume you've either come along because your someone's girlfriend, or that you're into the music but 'know' nothing. Once you speak to people though and they realise you're genuinely interested that soon passes. 'Anorak' tendencies in any field seem to be predominantly male - not sure if this is a brain chemistry or a cultural thing (or how I ended up with them!!  )

There's been the very rare occasion that I've felt uncomfortable about sleazy drunken blokes getting too close.  :angry: Happens everywhere though - and certainly less on the northern scene than in 'normal' nightclubs.

But in general I've got loads of male mates on the scene, don't often feel looked down upon and nobody's ever expressed the opinion that they thought I was there for anything other than the music.

link

I know I said "Going to post this and then going to leave you all to fight it out" but think I may make a comment or two -- or shall I .............................................................

[Simsy]

Take a trip down South. Had all girl DJ line up at the 100 Club not so long ago - nice atmos, all equal etc

[Supercorsa]

Take a trip down South.  Had all girl DJ line up at the 100 Club not so long ago - nice atmos, all equal etc 

link

I was just going to say this too. I think chrissieo needs a night out with Janine, Karen C and the rest of the SSCDT ladies. Although saying that, it may put her off the scene for good!

[Guest ShaneH]

I dont think its a 'man's thing' at all. The scene is made up of lots of different types of people. There is always plenty of ladies on the dancefloor at venues I go to. However the DJ's and collectors/dealers are male dominated for sure. I generally find most women to be into the dancing. They are not bothered about artists/labels/prices/bootlegs at all which is cool. Although there are a few ladies who are very keen on all aspects of northern soul.

Therefore I do not think it is male dominated.

Shane

[Guest in town Mikey]

All music scenes are male dominated, apart from the boyband thing.

I would have thought this is one of the safest scenes for girls to go out alone on. The live band following scene is a pretty close second.

The only time I really noticed the male/female split on the scene was when I danced to Beverley Ann - He's coming home, and was told 'its a girlies tune'.

[chrissie]

Took the words right out of the mouth! 

link

I had, had a few sherberts last when I started this last night, and now I have re-read it, although I still stand by 99% of it but may be not the "out on the pull" thing, but I have known some men who think I am only into the music cos they think I fancy them (ego problems), or bought a record cos they have it in their collection (SAD).

Be honest if you didn't really love NS you wouldn't spend hours trawling ebay etc trying to buy 7" of plastic that is over priced and none of your mates will ever let you play when they come round.

Does this pose another topic "Can Women Be NS Anoraks" or would they bl**dy want to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do show some symptons i.e. "what label syndrome" "demoitus" "try and find the obscure rash"

Is there a cure - or would I want there to be one????

[Guest]

Take a trip down South.  Had all girl DJ line up at the 100 Club not so long ago - nice atmos, all equal etc 

link

No they werent all equal, if they were there would be no such thing as an all girl line up, and how many of that line up have since been booked in their own rights at other major events?

[Mike]

I had, had a few sherberts last when I started this last night, and now I have re-read it, although I still stand by 99% of it but may be not the "out on the pull" thing, but I have known some men who think I am only into the music cos they think I fancy them (ego problems), or bought a record cos they have it in their collection (SAD).

Be honest if you didn't really love NS you wouldn't spend hours trawling ebay etc trying to buy 7" of plastic that is over priced and none of your mates will ever let you play when they come round.

Does this pose another topic "Can Women Be NS Anoraks" or would they bl**dy want to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do show some symptons i.e. "what label syndrome"  "demoitus" "try and find the obscure rash"

Is there a cure - or would I want there to be one???? 

link

chrissieo

out of interest, where abouts where you on about in first post?

mike

[Guest]

Take a trip down South.  Had all girl DJ line up at the 100 Club not so long ago - nice atmos, all equal etc 

link

Quite agree with you, one of the best nites there been for a long time!

[Guest]

I would have thought this is one of the safest scenes for girls to go out alone on. The live band following scene is a pretty close second.

Mike you are right, it is one of the only places I know that I would (and other females) go to places on my own and meet up with people inside, but nowadays, I have to admit I prefer to go with someone!

[Guest in town Mikey]

Mike you are right, it is one of the only places I know that I would (and other females) go to places on my own and meet up with people inside, but nowadays, I have to admit I prefer to go with someone!

link

And I would gladly be your chaperone

I have to admit it did surprise me, when I first moved to London, at the number of people who 'got off' with each other at soul nights. I cant say I had noticed this happening elsewhere.

[Rbman]

There's been the very rare occasion that I've felt uncomfortable about sleazy drunken blokes getting too close.  :angry: Happens everywhere though - and certainly less on the northern scene than in 'normal' nightclubs.

...so normally you feel happy about sleazy drunken blokes getting close?

I've done that CD for you Rachel...if you PM me your address I'll post it to you.

[chrissie]

chrissieo

out of interest, where abouts where you on about in first post?

mike

link

South of Watford Gap and North Of London, don't want to be too specific as it may offend some of the good NS mates I do have locally.

[Guest rachel]

...so normally you feel happy about sleazy drunken blokes getting close?

link

depends on the bloke I suppose!

[Guest]

And I would gladly be your chaperone 

I have to admit it did surprise me, when I first moved to London, at the number of people who 'got off' with each other at soul nights. I cant say I had noticed this happening elsewhere.

link

Thanks Mike x but bit far for you from Wales, unless you using your helicopter nowadays?! I must have had my eyes shut, I didnt see anyone getting off with anyone, heard lots of rumours!! (probably been one of them too - rumour that is!)

[Guest]

depends on the bloke I suppose! 

link

Rachel, Im surprised at you! Never seen a drunken Rabbit!

[chrissie]

...so normally you feel happy about sleazy drunken blokes getting close?

I've done that CD for you Rachel...if you PM me your address I'll post it to you.

link

Thanks for sorting pass out for me - Had a great weekend!!!!!!!!!!

[Rbman]

Rachel, Im surprised at you!  Never seen a drunken Rabbit!

link

Does that need more or less batteries?

[chrissie]

No they werent all equal, if they were there would be no such thing as an all girl line up, and how many of that line up have since been booked in their own rights at other major events?

link

"I Second That Emotion"

Must stop using that phrase it's getting a bit boooooooooring.

If it was equal the female DJs would play alongside the blokes and there would not be "All Girl Line Ups".

Swore I would never hit the decks again but have been asked to do the "midnight hour" at my nephews 21st - surprised my son is letting me near his decks, its bin about 27 years. Best keep the bozze to minimum till afterwards ehh!

[Rbman]

Thanks for sorting pass out for me - Had a great weekend!!!!!!!!!!

link

I'm glad........should we be talking about a PASS in this topic?

[Guest rachel]

If it was equal the female DJs would play alongside the blokes and there would not be "All Girl Line Ups".

link

I've got mixed feelings about this - in some ways I agree with you and Karen, but on the other hand, whilst DJing is so male-dominated, maybe we need these 'all girl' events to redress the balance and let people see that the ladies can actually do it just as well! In an ideal world we wouldn't but....

[Guest in town Mikey]

I've got mixed feelings about this - in some ways I agree with you and Karen, but on the other hand, whilst DJing is so male-dominated, maybe we need these 'all girl' events to redress the balance and let people see that the ladies can actually do it just as well! In an ideal world we wouldn't but.... 

link

Well Naimh had the support of the London contingent sat with me on Sunday night, when she went and told the boys off for playing disco in the main room. She was applauded and cheered the entire length of the room, across the stage, while she delivered he twopenneth, directly to those involved (Accompanied by the sounds of the O'Jays - I love music ), and applauded all the way back.

Girl Power

All the guys did was grumble amongst themselves.

I think Andy BB described her as the Pocket Rocket. (With a neuclear warhead, I'd add, after Sunday)

[Guest alison]

and how many of that line up have since been booked in their own rights at other major events?

link

Ummmmm, I've got plenty of bookings for this year and next thanks Karen

[Guest James Trouble]

I've got mixed feelings about this - in some ways I agree with you and Karen, but on the other hand, whilst DJing is so male-dominated, maybe we need these 'all girl' events to redress the balance and let people see that the ladies can actually do it just as well! In an ideal world we wouldn't but.... 

link

The facts are that most of the 'girl DJs' at these 'all girl DJ line ups' don't have the records or dare I say it the expertise to do the job (with a few obvious exceptions ( i love you soul mum!)). That is why they are not booked at normal nights. It is not because they are girls, it's because they are not good enough. I think it's about time all this feminist bollox is stamped out.

I think I read somthing that Cookie wrote in a magazine, it seems she has the right attitude. Book her because because she puts a stonking set together, not because she is a girl and it's 'wacky' to book girl DJs.

If these moaning feminists really believed they are good enough to do the job then they should turn down bookings at 'all girl line ups' because by letting yourself be booked at one of these nights you are admitting you are not good enough to cut the mustard on a level playing field. Or maybe you really know you're not good enough, and that's why you stick together?

[Simsy]

No they werent all equal, if they were there would be no such thing as an all girl line up, and how many of that line up have since been booked in their own rights at other major events?

link

What do you mean? Think you have the wrong end of the stick there. It's not just about the dj's is it.

[Guest James Trouble]

Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....Girls are rubbish, join on.....

[Guest]

Ummmmm, I've got plenty of bookings for this year and next thanks Karen 

link

But your slightly different Alison in that you are more of a crossover and modern DJ ( I hope I have described your style correctly), I am talking main stream northern soul events such as new century,lifeline,togetherness,and dare I say the main room at prestatyn ?

[Guest alison]

"I Second That Emotion"

If it was equal the female DJs would play alongside the blokes and there would not be "All Girl Line Ups".

link

I normally play alongside blokes - I don't really think about it as a gender issue. Apart from the 100 Club which has had the "laydees nights" for years I never think to ask what the line up is when I'm booked, although I think something I am doing for Shute in September is ladies only. I just want to play my records; my only concern is that the promoter who books me knows that I play crossover and not out and out Northern.

[Guest]

The facts are that most of the 'girl DJs' at these 'all girl DJ line ups' don't have the records or dare I say it the expertise to do the job (with a few obvious exceptions ( i love you soul mum!)). That is why they are not booked at normal nights. It is not because they are girls, it's because they are not good enough. I think it's about time all this feminist bollox is stamped out.

I think I read somthing that Cookie wrote in a magazine, it seems she has the right attitude. Book her because because she puts a stonking set together, not because she is a girl and it's 'wacky' to book girl DJs.

If these moaning feminists really believed they are good enough to do the job then they should turn down bookings at 'all girl line ups' because by letting yourself be booked at one of these nights you are admitting you are not good enough to cut the mustard on a level playing field. Or maybe you really know you're not good enough, and that's why you stick together?

link

James, how do you know what records the girls have or have not, are you privy to what they have in their collections?

Expertise comes from practice, unless they are given a chance they won't ever be able to improve.

Yes Cookie is right and I am with her 100% book someone for their sets not because they are either male or female but females are overlooked in the main because they are female.

And why because us girls have something to say on the matter are we called feminists?

[Guest alison]

(with a few obvious exceptions ( i love you soul mum!)).

link

Glad you qualified that remark Love you too Soul Son

Edited March 10, 2005 by alison

[chrissie]

What do you mean? Think you have the wrong end of the stick there.  It's not just about the dj's is it.

link

You're right it was not intended to be about the DJs but the whole scene so it is inevitable that the DJ issue would come into it a some point, I personally don't care what sex a DJ is as long as the sound is right.

[Guest]

Take a trip down South.  Had all girl DJ line up at the 100 Club not so long ago - nice atmos, all equal etc 

link

What do you mean? Think you have the wrong end of the stick there.  It's not just about the dj's is it.

link

No not just about DJ's, I just said they were not equal as it was an all girl line up

[Guest Soultown andy]

Takeing the promoters stand point,if you are any good you will get booked if you are,nt you wont its tht simple.At sheridans we have the same policy for everyone you play the front room first,if we like you we will book you for the main room if we dont ,we wont regardless of sex reputation or any other bullshit.

[Dave]

Just to add my twopenneth, I go to a lot of different venues, North and South and there is a big variation in the ratio of male and female.

I've been trying to work out if there is any pattern and I think perhaps there is.

Seems to me that the typical oldies venue/room populated with staring-eyed guys dressed in vests, Spencers etc trying to recapture their youth does not make much appeal to a lot of women on the scene, whereas venues/rooms playing music more on the edges of the spectrum e.g. RnB on the one hand or 70s onwards stuff on the other attracts a far more even ratio of m:f.

Perhaps this indicates that women are more receptive to the changes in the music that only some of us welcome?

On the collecting/anorak side of things, it is a fact that women are less susceptible to certain types of obsessive behaviour, (and really that's what we are talking about) than men.

On the DJ thing I enjoy listening to different collectors play, "big name" or unknown, male or female, and certain venues with more progressive music policies seem to have a similar outlook when putting together a line-up. Again, its the bulk-standard, Friday night, NS Top 500 soul nights who go for the same, safe, male names.

Then again, how many of the lady collectors would want to play at these venues? Very few, I suspect and I don't blame 'em!

All just MVHO, of course and I can't stay long at the mo to see the response so I'll have a look later to see how much flak this attracts.

Dave

[Guest]

Takeing the promoters stand point,if you are any good you will get booked if you are,nt you wont its tht simple.At sheridans we have the same policy for everyone you play the front room first,if we like you we will book you for the main room if we dont ,we wont regardless of sex reputation or any other bullshit.

link

Andy, did you miss a comma between sex and reputation mate ?

If not, tell me more !

[Supercorsa]

We need ladies on the scene, I mean who else is going to drive you home after a few beers! :tomato2:

As for the DJing aspect, I would say that it was an assumption that women can't DJ, but this is not the case! i.e: Jo Wallace, Alison, Cookie, Niamh Lynch, Val Palmer, even Janine!

We've all listened to men DJ and thought they shouldn't be up there, so why not give the girls ago?

As for the dancers, I'd rather watch some nice slim female gliding across the floor than some fat balding bloke sweating away in his bags and vest!

[Guest rachel]

The facts are that most of the 'girl DJs' at these 'all girl DJ line ups' don't have the records or dare I say it the expertise to do the job (with a few obvious exceptions ( i love you soul mum!)). That is why they are not booked at normal nights. It is not because they are girls, it's because they are not good enough. I think it's about time all this feminist bollox is stamped out.

I think I read somthing that Cookie wrote in a magazine, it seems she has the right attitude. Book her because because she puts a stonking set together, not because she is a girl and it's 'wacky' to book girl DJs.

If these moaning feminists really believed they are good enough to do the job then they should turn down bookings at 'all girl line ups' because by letting yourself be booked at one of these nights you are admitting you are not good enough to cut the mustard on a level playing field. Or maybe you really know you're not good enough, and that's why you stick together?

link

Got to say I didn't go to the 100 club night so I can't comment on the quality of people's sets there. In fact the only all female session I've been at was Fleetwood, and I can't comment on that since I was DJing - though I will say that all 4 of us playing at that have certainly DJed on the 'level playing field' as you call it - being booked as guests in our own right at 'normal' nights. I absolutely agree that DJs should be booked for what they play and how they put a set together, not for any other distinguishing features be it sex, age, or whatever, but I don't think anyone can deny that it's rarely as simple as that!

[Dave]

James, how do you know what records the girls have or have not, are you privy to what they have in their collections?

Expertise comes from practice, unless they are given a chance they won't ever be able to improve.

Yes Cookie is right and I am with her 100% book someone for their sets not because they are either male or female but females are overlooked in the main because they are female.

And why because us girls have something to say on the matter are we called feminists?

link

Karen, you should know better than to fall for it!

[Guest alison]

So going back to Chrissies original post then and discounting the DJing element of females on the soul scene ......

I have always felt very comfortable, years ago hitching hundreds of miles and latterly driving to events and happily attending on my own, knowing that I'd find a like minded bunch of people at the other end - men and women.

Someone on a radio show (not me) described it as a matriachal society, where the women look after the men. Must say I've never thought that at all - the buggers are big and ugly enough to look after themselves as far as I'm concerned

[Guest]

Takeing the promoters stand point,if you are any good you will get booked if you are,nt you wont its tht simple.At sheridans we have the same policy for everyone you play the front room first,if we like you we will book you for the main room if we dont ,we wont regardless of sex reputation or any other bullshit.

link

That is exactly how it should be and I'm sure a lot of promoters will say the same, its just hard for promoters to have a chance to see girls in action IMO as they are hardly ever booked, and that can also be said for guys that haven't got big names already.

I can honsetly say that the all girl lineup at the last 100 was one of the best nights I have had out in ages and that isn't because they were girls but because again IMO they worked really hard to put their sets together and we got to hear something a little different from the norm.

I don't want to pay my money to listen to crap even if its girls playing it

[Simsy]

No not just about DJ's, I just said they were not equal as it was an all girl line up

link

Some surprisiing and dissapointing points in this thread. If someone had said to me yesterday is there any sexism on the northern soul scene, I'd of said "hell no". The scene would be bleak without female involvement, I think we are all equals max respect to all on scene for having a great musical taste. As for the DJ's there's a long history of big name female DJ's. Val Palmer was someone I admired a lot from years ago, still do. Think it was 'that girl Lin' who did an excellent spot last I heard including Pat Lewis if memory serves thats a £750 record, don't tell me they ain't got the sounds. Jo Wallace... etc, I could go on. Respect for all that's what I say.

[Guest alison]

Seems to me that the typical oldies venue/room populated with staring-eyed guys dressed in vests, Spencers etc trying to recapture their youth does not make much appeal to a lot of women on the scene, whereas venues/rooms playing music more on the edges of the spectrum e.g. RnB on the one hand or 70s onwards stuff on the other attracts a far more even ratio of m:f.

 

Dave

link

One bloke I know says he prefers the modern rooms cos the totty is younger and not so saggy I felt the urge to tell him he wouldn't get a look in - not if he was the last man standing

[Guest alison]

Takeing the promoters stand point,if you are any good you will get booked if you are,nt you wont its tht simple.At sheridans we have the same policy for everyone you play the front room first,if we like you we will book you for the main room if we dont ,we wont regardless of sex reputation or any other bullshit.

link

and thats exactly how it should be