For Those Who Were Dubious About Playing78's

[Guest dundeedavie]

when i mentioned on here i was planning on playing 78's a lot of people thought the sound would be bad ....well .... i played 2 at Roots of Rhythm and guess what ? THEY SOUNDED F*CKIN' EXCELLENT AND REALY FULL

[Soulgrit]

when i mentioned on here i was planning on playing 78's a lot of people thought the sound would be bad ....well .... i played 2 at Roots of Rhythm and guess what ? THEY SOUNDED F*CKIN' EXCELLENT AND REALY FULL

Well done davie , i've always said that mono sounds better, especialy the earlier tunes.

Willie

[Val (Chunky)]

when i mentioned on here i was planning on playing 78's a lot of people thought the sound would be bad ....well .... i played 2 at Roots of Rhythm and guess what ? THEY SOUNDED F*CKIN' EXCELLENT AND REALY FULL

What did you play?

[Steve G]

What did you play?

Exactly - I am struggling to think of a 78 that I'd want to play ?

Humphrey Littleton possibly, but it'd clear the floor.

[macca]

I can think of a fistful that I'd play, but I'd probably be hauled up the tyburn road for having the effrontery.

quite a few of big joe turner's R&B shouters & most of wynonie harris's jump tunes would the order of the day for me.

M

p.s. who ever worried about clearing floors?

[Guest Stuart T]

when i mentioned on here i was planning on playing 78's a lot of people thought the sound would be bad ....well .... i played 2 at Roots of Rhythm and guess what ? THEY SOUNDED F*CKIN' EXCELLENT AND REALY FULL

I have a fair few RnB classics on 78 (Wynonie Harris, Little Walter and the like) and love them to bits. My amp has a mono button on it and using that clears a lot of extraneous noise and they come through loud and clear. Production quality is probably slightly better than an early 60s Jamaican record. They go very loud!

[Kevinkent]

Exactly - I am struggling to think of a 78 that I'd want to play ?

Humphrey Littleton possibly, but it'd clear the floor.

There's one I'd play - if I ever find it:

I'M A COALMINER - Nappy Brown. Brilliant R'n'B !

[Guest dundeedavie]

i played ....

big maybelle - that's a pretty good love -savoy

big jay mcneely - rock candy - federal

[Guest Stuart T]

There's one I'd play - if I ever find it:

I'M A COALMINER - Nappy Brown. Brilliant R'n'B !

Why do you want it on 78?

[Kevinkent]

Why do you want it on 78?

Because I'm old and confused!

I've looked through so many car boot 78's in the hope of picking this up for 10p that I think I'd forgotten it wasn't the only format.

So thanks for putting me right

[Gene-r]

There's one I'd play - if I ever find it:

I'M A COALMINER - Nappy Brown. Brilliant R'n'B !

Hi Kev,

Hope you're well.

Don't think this came out on 78 with it being released as late as 1960.

Gene

[pow wow mik]

There's one I'd play - if I ever find it:

I'M A COALMINER - Nappy Brown. Brilliant R'n'B !

Why not just play it on 45 though? Davie, obviously Big maybelle came out on 45, but dont know the other track you played, is it 78 only? Are there any proper playable (as in would go down well at an r&b club dancefloor wise) tracks that are 78 only?

[Guest dundeedavie]

Hi Kev,

Hope you're well.

Don't think this came out on 78 with it being released as late as 1960.

Gene

it could still be as 78's were made in quantity in 1960 (not counting any foreign makers)

[Guest Stuart T]

Hi Kev,

Hope you're well.

Don't think this came out on 78 with it being released as late as 1960.

Gene

No, only a 45:

https://settlet.fateback.com/Sav1500.htm

[Guest dundeedavie]

Why not just play it on 45 though? Davie, obviously Big maybelle came out on 45, but dont know the other track you played, is it 78 only? Are there any proper playable (as in would go down well at an r&b club dancefloor wise) tracks that are 78 only?

i had the 45 with me but i fancied an experiment , i've played them at home and i have the equipment to do it so why not ? if i'm looking for a 50's tune it gives me twice the chances of finding it and the 78 is also the original issue .

big jay mcneely is 53 so possibly on a 45 too , never looked as i've no need to , i've got an original issue

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

it could still be as 78's were made in quantity in 1960 (not counting any foreign makers)

Savoy issued 78s until quite late (July '59). The last Savoy to come out on 78 was # 1575 - The Gay Poppers' "You Better Believe". "Coal Miner" came out in January '61, so no 78 there I'm afraid.

Most American companies knocked 78 manufacture on the head by 1958 - many of the majors did so even before that. There were a few indies still issuing 78s in 1960 but it was merely a handful of labels, rather than the quantity that Davie suggests (sorry to contradict).

I've said before on here that the latest US 78 I have that was issued for anything other than 'novelty' purposes is Ray Barretto's "El Watusi" on Tico, from 1963 - presumably pressed for the less affluent latinos who hadn't gravitated to hi fi by that time.

[Guest dundeedavie]

Savoy issued 78s until quite late (July '59). The last Savoy to come out on 78 was # 1575 - The Gay Poppers' "You Better Believe". "Coal Miner" came out in January '61, so no 78 there I'm afraid.

Most American companies knocked 78 manufacture on the head by 1958 - many of the majors did so even before that. There were a few indies still issuing 78s in 1960 but it was merely a handful of labels, rather than the quantity that Davie suggests (sorry to contradict).

I've said before on here that the latest US 78 I have that was issued for anything other than 'novelty' purposes is Ray Barretto's "El Watusi" on Tico, from 1963 - presumably pressed for the less affluent latinos who hadn't gravitated to hi fi by that time.

contradict away chief , you know a lot more about this than i do

[Guest Stuart T]

Savoy issued 78s until quite late (July '59). The last Savoy to come out on 78 was # 1575 - The Gay Poppers' "You Better Believe". "Coal Miner" came out in January '61, so no 78 there I'm afraid.

December 60 according to the Savoy discography on the link, who releases records in January?

Weren't some real blues things still coming out on 78 until about 63 for poor older black people, only available in certain states and pressed locally in minute quantities?

[Kevinkent]

Thanks guys. A nice bit of debate on the Nappy Brown.

The reason for my search for a 78 copy? I heard it, liked it, but decided I wasn't prepared to pay £150 (or any 3 figure sum) for the 45. A Google search threw it up as a Savoy 78, can't remember the site, so I started looking for it casually without any further research. Nothing more than that really.

But, I bow to the experience and knowledge expressed here. I'll stop looking.

Too cold for boot fairs anyway!

[Guest dundeedavie]

Thanks guys. A nice bit of debate on the Nappy Brown.

The reason for my search for a 78 copy? I heard it, liked it, but decided I wasn't prepared to pay £150 (or any 3 figure sum) for the 45. A Google search threw it up as a Savoy 78, can't remember the site, so I started looking for it casually without any further research. Nothing more than that really.

But, I bow to the experience and knowledge expressed here. I'll stop looking.

Too cold for boot fairs anyway!

you should NEVER have to pay that much for the 45 EVER !!!

[Kevinkent]

you should NEVER have to pay that much for the 45 EVER !!!

AGREED! And fed up with shredding bank statements as soon as they arrive.

But.......

Love, Love, Love -Bobby Hebb ,15p

Across The Street - Lenny O'Henry, £3.20

Baby I Know - Doc & the Interns, $5

Voltaire Pier - Chocolate Boys, 1 Euro

................................all originals.........make it all much more palatable, and FUN.

I'd guess that 78's don't ever go for big bucks, but once again stand to be corrected.

[Guest dundeedavie]

AGREED! And fed up with shredding bank statements as soon as they arrive.

But.......

Love, Love, Love -Bobby Hebb ,15p

Across The Street - Lenny O'Henry, £3.20

Baby I Know - Doc & the Interns, $5

Voltaire Pier - Chocolate Boys, 1 Euro

................................all originals.........make it all much more palatable, and FUN.

I'd guess that 78's don't ever go for big bucks, but once again stand to be corrected.

some 78's do ....

betty everett - my love - cobra went for $900 if i remember rightly

[Gene-r]

Price of place in my living room is my home turntable, an original Garrard 4HF (pictured below). All my records are played on this - 50s/60s US 45s and UK/US 78s sound gorgeous on this too! It's wired with a modern Audio Technica cartridge (with a separate stylus for 78s), so the sound quality is outstanding.

These were in production between 1957 and 1965, so I'm at a loss to positively date mine. They were also sent to Jamaica from the late 50s onwards for sound system use. To this day, some sounds still use them, namely Jah Shaka for one.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Gene-R

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

December 60 according to the Savoy discography on the link, who releases records in January?

Weren't some real blues things still coming out on 78 until about 63 for poor older black people, only available in certain states and pressed locally in minute quantities?

The discography on that link is not infallible, but then again neither am I, so who's to say? Anyway it's only four weeks, either way...

Who releases records in January? Actually the entire industry does, and always has done in considerable quantity - unlike in December, where you lose potential sales to the Christmas holiday and the 487th repackaging of U2's greatest hits (or its 1960 equivalent) . I'm not saying that no record companies release in December (although none of the four that I've worked for ever has), but there's not a lot of wisdom in burying potential hits under an avalanche of Christmas shopping.

I've been buying and collecting 78s of one variety or another since the late 60s and the latest blues/R&B things that I've ever found (or ever heard of) on USA pressings date from 1960. The oldest one that I personally own (other than the aforementioned 'El Watusi' is Bobby Marchan's "There Is Something On Your Mind" on Fire, which was issued in 1960. I don't know or know of anyone who has anything 'newer' than that. And I think that this and the handful of other 1960 US 78s that I either have or know about are probably the 'minute quantities for poor blacks' that you have in mind, rather than blues 78s which, by 1963, there couldn't have been much demand for among any segment of the US black community, given that blues had given way to R & B several years previously.

In the UK, 78 production generally ceased in 1960 - although Decca carried on pressing, in minute quantities, some of their big hits on 78 until 1961 for those who, as you mention, were too poor to buy a Dansette.

Of course, 78s were pressed in countries like the Philippines and India until well into the 60s, but that's another story.

[Guest Stuart T]

The discography on that link is not infallible, but then again neither am I, so who's to say? Anyway it's only four weeks, either way...

Who releases records in January? Actually the entire industry does, and always has done in considerable quantity - unlike in December, where you lose potential sales to the Christmas holiday and the 487th repackaging of U2's greatest hits (or its 1960 equivalent) . I'm not saying that no record companies release in December (although none of the four that I've worked for ever has), but there's not a lot of wisdom in burying potential hits under an avalanche of Christmas shopping.

I've been buying and collecting 78s of one variety or another since the late 60s and the latest blues/R&B things that I've ever found (or ever heard of) on USA pressings date from 1960. The oldest one that I personally own (other than the aforementioned 'El Watusi' is Bobby Marchan's "There Is Something On Your Mind" on Fire, which was issued in 1960. I don't know or know of anyone who has anything 'newer' than that. And I think that this and the handful of other 1960 US 78s that I either have or know about are probably the 'minute quantities for poor blacks' that you have in mind, rather than blues 78s which, by 1963, there couldn't have been much demand for among any segment of the US black community, given that blues had given way to R & B several years previously.

In the UK, 78 production generally ceased in 1960 - although Decca carried on pressing, in minute quantities, some of their big hits on 78 until 1961 for those who, as you mention, were too poor to buy a Dansette.

Of course, 78s were pressed in countries like the Philippines and India until well into the 60s, but that's another story.

I was joking about the exact date of course, there were a few Motown things on 78 in places like the Philipinnes as I recall. Last US 78rpm is alleged to have been released in February 1960 from what I've seen, and Columbia stopped stocking their 78 rpm back catalogue in 1962. Which shows what demand must have been like by then. But I do recall seeing a site for blues collectors that alleged that 78s were still being pressed later than that, can't find it now though. And they didn't seem to have much evidence for that, the people on their forum were much more interested in one off pre war 78s and the like of all genres, but blues seemed to attract the hardcore obscurists. Fascinating site, will keep looking for it.

As to blues giving way to RnB, they were also on about that, but people like Fred McDowell ("I Do Not Play No Rock and Roll") were still releasing pure blues records surely? Or was that revival with people like Arhoolie aimed at the white/European market?

January would make sense, all those kids with Chritsmas money to spend, but wouldn't a new release get lost in the sales?.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I was joking about the exact date of course, there were a few Motown things on 78 in places like the Philipinnes as I recall. Last US 78rpm is alleged to have been released in February 1960 from what I've seen, and Columbia stopped stocking their 78 rpm back catalogue in 1962. Which shows what demand must have been like by then. But I do recall seeing a site for blues collectors that alleged that 78s were still being pressed later than that, can't find it now though. And they didn't seem to have much evidence for that, the people on their forum were much more interested in one off pre war 78s and the like of all genres, but blues seemed to attract the hardcore obscurists. Fascinating site, will keep looking for it.

As to blues giving way to RnB, they were also on about that, but people like Fred McDowell ("I Do Not Play No Rock and Roll") were still releasing pure blues records surely? Or was that revival with people like Arhoolie aimed at the white/European market?

January would make sense, all those kids with Chritsmas money to spend, but wouldn't a new release get lost in the sales?.

The Bobby Marchan I mentioned came out in June or July 1960 which, I would say, would make it among the last if not THE last US R & B 78.

The latest UK-pressed 78, as far as I've ever been able to ascertain, is the Everly Brothers 'Lucille" on Warner Brothers, which came out around December 1960. I was told by a fairly senior man at Decca that those last few 78s were more or less pressed to order i.e. that they would advertise 78 availability and then wait until all the orders came in before deciding how many to press. He also told me that, by the end, they were often pressing as few as 50 copies of some things.

US Columbia was actually the first major to completely stop production of 78s - they seem to have more or less knocked it on the head by early 1957. (Ironically, their then UK distributor Philips was the last UK major to begin production of 45s for commercial purposes, in 1958, although they did produce singles fro the growing jukebox market for some time before that). RCA followed shortly thereafter and the other majors were not long in following suit.

'Late 78s' have always fascinated me, and I was lucky enough to come across a whole stack of good titles in the 70s, when their collectable value was at its lowest and they could be picked up for pennies. Not so nowadays, where being a 'late 78' seems to add resale value to anything from Anthony Newley to Marty Wilde to the Falcons to the Wailers etc. etc.

To answer your Arhoolie question, yes, back then they were aiming mostly at the white blues collectors although I don't know as that's necessarily true anymore. Of course, there was still a market for good blues records among those who they were primarily aimed at during the 60s - how else to explain the fact that the likes of B.B. King and Lowell Fulson charted consistently in the USA, all through the decade and often crossing over from the R & B charts to the Hot Hundred? - but it was significantly smaller than it had been before the birth of soul.

Fred McDowell, BTW is a Godlike Genius as far as I'm concerned. And, of course, the "I Do Not Play..." album was an early triumph for the fledgling Malaco Studios, long before Z.Z. Hill invented Bluesoul with "Down Home Blues"...

Edited November 7, 2007 by TONY ROUNCE

[Rbman]

Savoy issued 78s until quite late (July '59). The last Savoy to come out on 78 was # 1575 - The Gay Poppers' "You Better Believe". "Coal Miner" came out in January '61, so no 78 there I'm afraid.

Most American companies knocked 78 manufacture on the head by 1958 - many of the majors did so even before that. There were a few indies still issuing 78s in 1960 but it was merely a handful of labels, rather than the quantity that Davie suggests (sorry to contradict).

I've said before on here that the latest US 78 I have that was issued for anything other than 'novelty' purposes is Ray Barretto's "El Watusi" on Tico, from 1963 - presumably pressed for the less affluent latinos who hadn't gravitated to hi fi by that time.

Hey Tony, we could play "Wallflower" off 78, eh

[Rbman]

talking of which.......on ebay now

CLICK HERE

Edited November 7, 2007 by Rbman

[Guest dundeedavie]

i'd go for that but very wary of buying something so fragile from the states

[Rbman]

i'd go for that but very wary of buying something so fragile from the states

I know...mine is still in the box it came in and i just get it out and look at it now and again...play off my kent 45.

[Gene-r]

Pity Nathan only sends 78s to the USA!

If anyone has a spare original US 45 or 78 of "Good Rockin' Daddy" by Etta James, please PM me!

[Ady Potts]

Talking of 78's, I forgot i'd tucked this one away many years ago, only found it again a couple of weeks ago. I'd put it inside a Top of the pops L.P. for safe keeping on top of the wardrobe, nearly chucked it away.

It's never been played before, the 78 not the Top of the pops LP, not one single spindle mark on the label, it's mint. Now I wish i'd got more off the fella back then, he had the full set of Suns on both 45 & 78, all mint.

Perhaps i'd now better sell it before I lose it again.

[Guest dundeedavie]

Pity Nathan only sends 78s to the USA!

If anyone has a spare original US 45 or 78 of "Good Rockin' Daddy" by Etta James, please PM me!

i've seen a few of these recently , in fact from nathan and he says he does ship internationally though admittedley i never read the whole thing

Edited November 7, 2007 by dundeedavie

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

Nice thread, i wouldn't have imagined we have 78" playing out.

generally as we know the last major 78" was in 1960 after that 78" that were made was just for some idea however you can buy a Robbie Williams 78" i remember HMV had something to do with it

[Gene-r]

i've seen a few of these recently , in fact from nathan and he says he does ship internationally though admittedley i never read the whole thing

Yes you're right - Nathan does, in general, send to the UK, but probably draws the line on 78s because of fragility and cost of P&P.

I've bought from Nathan in the past and found him to be a great guy to deal with. His personal Emails always end with "Have a blessed day in Jesus's name"!

[Guest dundeedavie]

Nice thread, i wouldn't have imagined we have 78" playing out.

generally as we know the last major 78" was in 1960 after that 78" that were made was just for some idea however you can buy a Robbie Williams 78" i remember HMV had something to do with it

you are aware that the symbol " means inches don't you ?

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

of course and i been a fan of vinyl records for years.

i admit for my age i own 1 78" record only because it's Frankie Lymon and the teenagers - I'm Not a Juvenile delinquint and it's a fav of mine i always put 78" unless i am doing it wrong lol