Northern Funk

[Guest WR67]

Interesting extract from an interview with 1970`s Liverpool funk DJ Les Spaine....

Full interview here....

https://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk/interviews/les_spaine.html

NORTHERN SOUL

I wasn't a part of that scene at all. You've got to understand, Northern Soul to me is stuff that I heard either when I was very young, or it was so rare that (hesitates) - I'm going to upset a lot of people when I say this - a lot of Northern Soul is the Emperor's New Clothes. It's got to be rare. It's got to be unavailable and the guy's got to have died young of tuberculosis, working on a car line in Detroit. The minute it became popular, they didn't want it. Most of it was shite, if we tell the truth. I'm not saying there wasn't good Northern Soul, but quite a lot of it was musically bad and it was very old. I wasn't into old music.

We were more the other end, you know, what is new? What's George Clinton doing? What are the Funk bands doing? What are the people like the Manhattans and the Dells and all that... That's what we were into, what is coming out new, now? I didn't see anything interesting in finding some obscure guy who cut two records. And the other thing is that it all has the same bloody beat! One of the things from our point of view, because we had so many Yanks that used to come down, there was like a new dance every two months. You know what I mean? And the music went with it. So it was constantly changing. Northern Soul didn't appeal to me or my followers because it all went the same way.

When I keep hearing this Northern Soul thing - more power to Northern Soul's elbow, but I personally, at the time, felt it didn't do our music any good. I used to think 'what is the point of it?' If you've got a record, you cover it up. I wasn't bothered. My vibe is 'yeah I'll play it, and if you want to ask me what it is I'll tell you - so what?'. I'll find something else in two or three weeks' time. It might have been the arrogance of youth but that was the way it should have been and that's the way any good DJ was. You got it, and by the time you'd played it for a month or so and people knew it was coming out and you did your little chart in Blues & Soul - you got the recognition. For God's sake, you didn't record the record yourself personally, and you moved on. All this business about covering it up, putting a funky name on it that isn't true, then they're going for fifty pounds or whatever to some poor, working class... I was never into all that and I never understood it.

I used to say "this is bullshit." and I didn't think it helped - who did it help? Did it help the people who wanted to part with the hundred pounds when they'd worked all week in some bloody shoe shop, to buy a rare record? No! Did it help the guy who did it? No.

I just thought 'these people just aren't real Soul fans.' I think a lot of real Soul fans who were into the Northern scene were used. I could see very little difference between the way the people who ran the Northern Soul scene carried on, and drug dealers with junkies. Now that might sound extreme but you analyse it. They had their market, they got it hooked and they kept it hungry.

[Tomangoes]

Oh no, after all these years the truth is out. Northern Soul DJs are naked

Smacks of jealousy. The Funk scene was no different, Mowhair Jumpers and drainpipes, and still listening to a fair share of one hit wonders.

If funk was so good, where is the scene now?? Yes, sneaked back into the Northern scene. Poo Poo La La.

Ed

[Guest Paul Brennan]

Thought both scenes were incredible myself, with good and bad music played at both, likewise with the people, both good and bad to be found and plenty of dealers etc on both.

paul

[Ian Dewhirst]

Actually Greg Wilson tipped me about this article.

I went to the Timepiece when Les deejayed there in the early 70's and it was a real Funk club, no doubt. Quite scary for a couple of white guys from Leeds (I went with Paul Schofield I seem to remember).

But Northern Soul never really clicked in Liverpool. The only guys I can remember being into Northern from Liverpool were Dennis Brennan (a big UK label collector) and Pete Lawson (R.I.P.). Also Liverpool always had different records to the rest of the country even on the Funk/Jazz-Funk/Disco scene - I used to natter to to Terry Lennaine when I was a plugger for Decca in the 70's and they always had different 'big' records to the rest of the scene at the time.

So Liverpool's just one of those places where Northern Soul really didn't figure that much. Has there ever been a great Northern Soul venue there? Can't think of one.....

So Les isn't to blame for his statement - he just never really got it like many of his fellow Liverpudlians.......

Ian D

[Guest martyn]

Interesting extract from an interview with 1970`s Liverpool funk DJ Les Spaine....

Full interview here....

https://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk/interviews/les_spaine.html

NORTHERN SOUL

I wasn't a part of that scene at all. You've got to understand, Northern Soul to me is stuff that I heard either when I was very young, or it was so rare that (hesitates) - I'm going to upset a lot of people when I say this - a lot of Northern Soul is the Emperor's New Clothes. It's got to be rare. It's got to be unavailable and the guy's got to have died young of tuberculosis, working on a car line in Detroit. The minute it became popular, they didn't want it. Most of it was shite, if we tell the truth. I'm not saying there wasn't good Northern Soul, but quite a lot of it was musically bad and it was very old. I wasn't into old music.

We were more the other end, you know, what is new? What's George Clinton doing? What are the Funk bands doing? What are the people like the Manhattans and the Dells and all that... That's what we were into, what is coming out new, now? I didn't see anything interesting in finding some obscure guy who cut two records. And the other thing is that it all has the same bloody beat! One of the things from our point of view, because we had so many Yanks that used to come down, there was like a new dance every two months. You know what I mean? And the music went with it. So it was constantly changing. Northern Soul didn't appeal to me or my followers because it all went the same way.

When I keep hearing this Northern Soul thing - more power to Northern Soul's elbow, but I personally, at the time, felt it didn't do our music any good. I used to think 'what is the point of it?' If you've got a record, you cover it up. I wasn't bothered. My vibe is 'yeah I'll play it, and if you want to ask me what it is I'll tell you - so what?'. I'll find something else in two or three weeks' time. It might have been the arrogance of youth but that was the way it should have been and that's the way any good DJ was. You got it, and by the time you'd played it for a month or so and people knew it was coming out and you did your little chart in Blues & Soul - you got the recognition. For God's sake, you didn't record the record yourself personally, and you moved on. All this business about covering it up, putting a funky name on it that isn't true, then they're going for fifty pounds or whatever to some poor, working class... I was never into all that and I never understood it.

I used to say "this is bullshit." and I didn't think it helped - who did it help? Did it help the people who wanted to part with the hundred pounds when they'd worked all week in some bloody shoe shop, to buy a rare record? No! Did it help the guy who did it? No.

I just thought 'these people just aren't real Soul fans.' I think a lot of real Soul fans who were into the Northern scene were used. I could see very little difference between the way the people who ran the Northern Soul scene carried on, and drug dealers with junkies. Now that might sound extreme but you analyse it. They had their market, they got it hooked and they kept it hungry.

Needs a bit of sugar on those grapes I'd say

[Guest Byrney]

So Les isn't to blame for his statement - he just never really got it like many of his fellow Liverpudlians.......

Ian D

Lived there for 7 years and know a lot of Liverpool lads who in the 70s / 80s were into a variety of music from funk to Progressive ( ) to the Eric's crowd, also used to have some good chats with Pete Wylie of the Mighty Wah fame about why Northern never took off in the city. Most felt that Northern Soul on the pool was considered "woolly Back" music, they were too buzy hipping out to Frank Zappa .

There was I believe a strong club soul / R&B scene late 60s / early 70s with clubs like the Mardi Gra on Bold Street and the Sink on Hardman street, now the Magnet - always good for a few scoops on a friday when I lived around the corner.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Byrney

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

one thing is Funk is not as collectable as Northern soul but i do like it if a song can be accepted on both scene ie if a dj can play Curtis Mayfield - Move On Up cause to me it shows a good unite

[Reforee]

Interesting extract from an interview with 1970`s Liverpool funk DJ Les Spaine....

Full interview here....

https://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk/interviews/les_spaine.html

NORTHERN SOUL

I wasn't a part of that scene at all. You've got to understand, Northern Soul to me is stuff that I heard either when I was very young, or it was so rare that (hesitates) - I'm going to upset a lot of people when I say this - a lot of Northern Soul is the Emperor's New Clothes. It's got to be rare. It's got to be unavailable and the guy's got to have died young of tuberculosis, working on a car line in Detroit. The minute it became popular, they didn't want it. Most of it was shite, if we tell the truth. I'm not saying there wasn't good Northern Soul, but quite a lot of it was musically bad and it was very old. I wasn't into old music.

We were more the other end, you know, what is new? What's George Clinton doing? What are the Funk bands doing? What are the people like the Manhattans and the Dells and all that... That's what we were into, what is coming out new, now? I didn't see anything interesting in finding some obscure guy who cut two records. And the other thing is that it all has the same bloody beat! One of the things from our point of view, because we had so many Yanks that used to come down, there was like a new dance every two months. You know what I mean? And the music went with it. So it was constantly changing. Northern Soul didn't appeal to me or my followers because it all went the same way.

When I keep hearing this Northern Soul thing - more power to Northern Soul's elbow, but I personally, at the time, felt it didn't do our music any good. I used to think 'what is the point of it?' If you've got a record, you cover it up. I wasn't bothered. My vibe is 'yeah I'll play it, and if you want to ask me what it is I'll tell you - so what?'. I'll find something else in two or three weeks' time. It might have been the arrogance of youth but that was the way it should have been and that's the way any good DJ was. You got it, and by the time you'd played it for a month or so and people knew it was coming out and you did your little chart in Blues & Soul - you got the recognition. For God's sake, you didn't record the record yourself personally, and you moved on. All this business about covering it up, putting a funky name on it that isn't true, then they're going for fifty pounds or whatever to some poor, working class... I was never into all that and I never understood it.

I used to say "this is bullshit." and I didn't think it helped - who did it help? Did it help the people who wanted to part with the hundred pounds when they'd worked all week in some bloody shoe shop, to buy a rare record? No! Did it help the guy who did it? No.

I just thought 'these people just aren't real Soul fans.' I think a lot of real Soul fans who were into the Northern scene were used. I could see very little difference between the way the people who ran the Northern Soul scene carried on, and drug dealers with junkies. Now that might sound extreme but you analyse it. They had their market, they got it hooked and they kept it hungry.

WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT FROM A SCOUSER?????? FLANNY BEING THE EXCEPTION?

THE MAN IN BLACK

[Guest]

Actually Greg Wilson tipped me about this article.

I went to the Timepiece when Les deejayed there in the early 70's and it was a real Funk club, no doubt. Quite scary for a couple of white guys from Leeds (I went with Paul Schofield I seem to remember).

But Northern Soul never really clicked in Liverpool. The only guys I can remember being into Northern from Liverpool were Dennis Brennan (a big UK label collector) and Pete Lawson (R.I.P.). Also Liverpool always had different records to the rest of the country even on the Funk/Jazz-Funk/Disco scene - I used to natter to to Terry Lennaine when I was a plugger for Decca in the 70's and they always had different 'big' records to the rest of the scene at the time.

So Liverpool's just one of those places where Northern Soul really didn't figure that much. Has there ever been a great Northern Soul venue there? Can't think of one.....

So Les isn't to blame for his statement - he just never really got it like many of his fellow Liverpudlians.......

Ian D

I`m the other Liverpudlian,and boy did i get some stick.Queen of clubs and night fever never did it for me.

[Ric-tic]

i was a city centre d j in liverpool for about a year in the late 70s it wasnt northern but disco and it was a gay club but we had nice records, but there were a fair few 'faces ' off the northern scene that passed through the doors does that count?

[Dave Moore]

NORTHERN SOUL

I wasn't a part of that scene at all.

I was never into all that and I never understood it.

I rest my case. More 'DJ' arrogance.

[Guest]

Actually Greg Wilson tipped me about this article.

I went to the Timepiece when Les deejayed there in the early 70's and it was a real Funk club, no doubt. Quite scary for a couple of white guys from Leeds (I went with Paul Schofield I seem to remember).

But Northern Soul never really clicked in Liverpool. The only guys I can remember being into Northern from Liverpool were Dennis Brennan (a big UK label collector) and Pete Lawson (R.I.P.). Also Liverpool always had different records to the rest of the country even on the Funk/Jazz-Funk/Disco scene - I used to natter to to Terry Lennaine when I was a plugger for Decca in the 70's and they always had different 'big' records to the rest of the scene at the time.

So Liverpool's just one of those places where Northern Soul really didn't figure that much. Has there ever been a great Northern Soul venue there? Can't think of one.....

So Les isn't to blame for his statement - he just never really got it like many of his fellow Liverpudlians.......

Ian D

Hi Ian

How are you doing mate??? You left me out!!!!!!LOL

There were quite a few people from Liverpool and the Wirral who were into Northern during the 70's though I accept that there a small group for the size of the area. This has been discussed in the past on Soul Source and I think the consensus would be that for many reasons it never really got going.

What is strange is that the Sink Club and then Mardi were probably at the forefront of rare soul in the 60's and have been virtually airbrushed out of history. All the US artists who played the Twisted Wheel played the Mardi and all the local black soul acts also performed alongside them. The DJ Billy Butler probably had the best collection in the country at the time and if you talk to Soul Sam he held Billy in high esteem during this period as did Ian Levine. But come the 70's, the Mardi closed and the soul scene evolved and moved away from what was becoming the burgeoning Northern scene. Earlier this year, Craig Charles did an excellent show on Radio 2 with Billy Butler and others telling the history of the Mardi.

There were several attempts during the mid 70's to get Northern gigs going and the only one which had success was Livingstones which ran from 1976 to 1977. I met many people there who are still my best mates and who still collect soul records. Since the 70's, there have been many attempts to run Northern events. Th Magnet has probably been the most successful though the club is now well known as one of the top places in the country for the burlesque scene!!!!

As for the Timepiece - you are right - this was one of the premier clubs in the country in the 70s and my mates from the music business in London still talk about he place with awe!!! There were far more people in Liverpool and the Wirral into "new" music during this time than Northern and there were lots of good nights around the city and on the Wirral - as you mentioned Greg and many others were at the forefront of that. I can even recall going on coaches from the Wirral to Nantwich when Colin Curtis was playing jazz funk.There was also a large group of people who attended all the jazz funk alldayers at the Ritz and Rafters in Manchester. Many people even went to the first Caisters etc. Another guy who was a big DJ from Wirral at the time was my old mate Eric Hearn - he played with Les at the Timepiece as well as Colin, John Grant and many of the Caister crew. He even ran a jazz funk night in Birkenhead at the Hamilton Club with Colin and John as well as DJing at Rafters and The Mecca jazz funk alldayers when Crown Heights Affair came over etc.

Someone mentioned the funk scene in their post in general - this is massive worldwide and probably eclipses Northern???? Just check MySpace, blogs etc - there are countless events across the USA and Europe- a very healthy scene with 1000's of rare records backed up by DJs and collectors ( the Funk Lexicon book is a massive 455 pages long), reissue labels galore but also a massive number of new groups cutting records - Daptone etc featuring Lee Fields, Little Charles Walker, Clarence Reid, Robert Moore etc. Another healthy sign is the number of young people who have migrated over from the hip hop scene after hearing the records sampled.

Cheers

Colin

https://indangerousrhythm.blogspot.com/

[Steve G]

Fascinating post Colin....I had always wondered about the Liverpool soul scene, as it never seemed as popular as say M/Chester.

Anyway hope you are keeping well..>Steve

[Guest andyrattigan]

I don't really agree with all of that article but he does have a point or two about how elitist the scene can be at times but then I'm sure the same can be said for most esoteric music scenes. I agree that the records are overpriced though, mostly because lots of the ones I want are too expensive. Still plenty of cheap- middle price range classics and crossover/7ts out there though.

Edited October 17, 2007 by andyrattigan

[Guest]

I don't really agree with all of that article but he does have a point or two about how elitist the scene can be at times but then I'm sure the same can be said for most esoteric music scenes. I agree that the records are overpriced thought, mostly because lots of the ones I want are too expensive. Still plenty of cheap- middle price range classics and crossover/7ts out there.

Hi Andy

I know a lot of people who love soul music and think the same way as Les. I suppose it takes all sorts to make the world go round but sometimes people, because they didn't get what Northern was all about, become aloof or dismissive which I think isn't fair. I know a lot of people who were or still are on the scene who collected all types of soul music but Northern happened to be their first preference. Then again I know lots of people who are dismissive of anything which isn't a stomper!!!

Les was not just a DJ - he went on to become head of Motown in Europe if I remember correctly and therefore became a big player in the music business. My mate Eric Hearn who I mentioned in the previous post used to visit him down South after he moved away from Liverpool.

[Guest]

Fascinating post Colin....I had always wondered about the Liverpool soul scene, as it never seemed as popular as say M/Chester.

Anyway hope you are keeping well..>Steve

Hi Steve

I'm fine thanks!!! Hope everything is OK with you??

Thanks for your comments - I am working on a project to coincide with Liverpool's City Of Culture next year on my involvement with music in the city over the last 40 years - I'll keep you posted.

Cheers

Colin

[Stubbsy]

Funny really, always wondered. Liverpool never a hot bed for NS only 30 miles from Manchester centre of the NS universe (IMO). Short distance but just two completely different cultures I suppose, or something to do with the mutual "dislike" between Mancs and Scousers?

[Citizen P]

And Birmingham also seems to never had a thrivin' N/S scene, although near neighbours, Wolverhampton, Stafford etc. had hundreds "on the scene"

Tony

[Guest martyn]

And Birmingham also seems to never had a thrivin' N/S scene, although near neighbours, Wolverhampton, Stafford etc. had hundreds "on the scene"

Tony

Loccano ? Also seem to remember coaches from Brum to St Ives & Cleethorpes ? Mind you,they might of all got on in Stafford or Wolverhampton I supose

[Guest]

Liverpool had its own scene with loads of live bands,sorta like the Irish band scene plus alot of American influences through the docks,allways way ahead in the new fashions but allways changing non of this retro rubbish in the eighty`s in Liverpool.