Ramp - Come Into Knowledge - Abc Lp

[soulmac]

I've just picked up a copy of Ramp - Come Into Knowledge Lp in the local second hand record shop. I know it has been re-issued. Can someone tell me how to tell the difference between the original and the re-issue.

Thanks in advance.

soulmac.

[Guest Darks]

I've just picked up a copy of Ramp - Come Into Knowledge Lp in the local second hand record shop. I know it has been re-issued. Can someone tell me how to tell the difference between the original and the re-issue.

Thanks in advance.

soulmac.

As a rule of thumb I always check the inner sleeve. It would be a guess, as I don't have the original, but it should have an original abc paper sleeve. All these re-issues have plain white with a label hole and are brand spanking new and even for a second hand copy should still feel newish.

Also the cover should be card on originals where as the reissues the covers are always smooth and shiny!

At the end of the day if you can't tell who else cares.

I must say I've been caught a couple of times when buying on the internet.

Seems you got a good bargin whatever.

Regards Alan

[Sutty]

i have the original and it's on Blue Thumb. The repress/bootleg I saw from a few years back was done on polydor labels. what label is yours on?

cheers Sutty

[Sebastian]

Don't know if this is of much help as these pictures are so small, but here are scans of an original copy:

[Sunnysoul]

As a rule of thumb I always check the inner sleeve. It would be a guess, as I don't have the original, but it should have an original abc paper sleeve. All these re-issues have plain white with a label hole and are brand spanking new and even for a second hand copy should still feel newish.

Also the cover should be card on originals where as the reissues the covers are always smooth and shiny!

At the end of the day if you can't tell who else cares.

I must say I've been caught a couple of times when buying on the internet.

Seems you got a good bargin whatever.

Regards Alan

Alan, not sure what you mean by "who else cares" but there are a lot of very serious LP collectors of soul and funk out there and they care a hell of a lot !!!

The Ramp LP is particularly problematical as I believe it has been issued in (unauthorised) "replica" form by Scorpio Records out of Detroit (so I understand) who have been flooding the market world wide now for years with replicas of rare soul and funk LP's. The replicas have fold over scanned sleeves (not paster on slicks) , usually omit the inner printed sleeves of the original and the vinyl is usually lightweight and the label shiny & moulded (not paper stick on).

Then a few years back I had an ebay seller send me a "copy" of the Ramp LP with an ABC Demo white & grey scanned label on the vinyl but the fold over cover was thinnish and white and shiny and scanned too. That gave it away. It was good though, very good !

The real hard to spot LP reissues are where the copiers have used hard brown board covers for the sleeves such as the Lee Fields , and some of the RCA soul LP's from around the late 70's early 80's like Breakwater ...

Some of the replicas from Scorpio are of classic Motown LP's such as Edwin Starr's Soul Master and 25 Miles LP's amongst many others and it's interesting that Sony/Motown and the other major companies concerned apparently don't seem to have pursued legal action.

I guess as with northern 45 bootlegging they just couldn't care less about a little illegal vinyl in this day and age as against the huge problem of illegal net downloads.

Maybe Paul (Mooney) or Sebastian on here could enlighten us a bit more on this whole situation and whether it is in fact Scorpio or some other company that are producing these replicas and how or why they are getting away with it, assuming of course that no legal licenses have been granted ?

[Dean Rudland]

Alan, not sure what you mean by "who else cares" but there are a lot of very serious LP collectors of soul and funk out there and they care a hell of a lot !!!

The Ramp LP is particularly problematical as I believe it has been issued in (unauthorised) "replica" form by Scorpio Records out of Detroit (so I understand) who have been flooding the market world wide now for years with replicas of rare soul and funk LP's. The replicas have fold over scanned sleeves (not paster on slicks) , usually omit the inner printed sleeves of the original and the vinyl is usually lightweight and the label shiny & moulded (not paper stick on).

Then a few years back I had an ebay seller send me a "copy" of the Ramp LP with an ABC Demo white & grey scanned label on the vinyl but the fold over cover was thinnish and white and shiny and scanned too. That gave it away. It was good though, very good !

The real hard to spot LP reissues are where the copiers have used hard brown board covers for the sleeves such as the Lee Fields , and some of the RCA soul LP's from around the late 70's early 80's like Breakwater ...

Some of the replicas from Scorpio are of classic Motown LP's such as Edwin Starr's Soul Master and 25 Miles LP's amongst many others and it's interesting that Sony/Motown and the other major companies concerned apparently don't seem to have pursued legal action.

I guess as with northern 45 bootlegging they just couldn't care less about a little illegal vinyl in this day and age as against the huge problem of illegal net downloads.

Maybe Paul (Mooney) or Sebastian on here could enlighten us a bit more on this whole situation and whether it is in fact Scorpio or some other company that are producing these replicas and how or why they are getting away with it, assuming of course that no legal licenses have been granted ?

Shockingly, considering the quality, Scorpio seem to be legal. I have seen contracts between them and several labels that I have worked with in the states.

Dean

Edited October 14, 2007 by Dean Rudland

[Sunnysoul]

Shockingly, considering the quality, Scorpio seem to be legal. I have seen contracts between them and several labels that I have worked with in the states.

Dean

Dean, good to have someone of your calibre on this site.

Can you elaborate a little more on Scorpio's form and history as far as its issuing of vinyl goes ?

I mean , are they doing deals with Sony/Motown and Polydor/Polygram etc etc ?

Also a lot of the LP's were on indie labels which are of course long gone and for which surely there would surely be no masters in existence and no rights owners or label owners for them to have to answer to ?

Edited October 14, 2007 by sunnysoul

[Guest Darks]

Alan, not sure what you mean by "who else cares" but there are a lot of very serious LP collectors of soul and funk out there and they care a hell of a lot !!!

Keep your hair on, all that I'm trying to say is that if I had took a punt on a cheap RAMP album and it turns out to be a reissue that it would'nt be the end of the world.

It would, however, be very serious if the said album had been sold as an original and turned out to be a reissue. Apologies for my lack of articulation.

I am concerned as you are about the flood of these reissue replicas. That said, in a record shop they are easy to spot. On the internet a bit harder. I am also concerned that some of the sellers have no idea that there not the original.

Still I did find a mint sealed Clarence Reid Atco album in amongst an entire rack of shiny reissues. Seems the shop owner thought it must have been a reissue as well. Had me thinking but when unsealed contained those lovely Atco/Atlantic colour inner sleeves with ads for the label catalog.

I've also noticed that, in the case of the Milton Wright Alston album, the "replica" has the right label but the wrong logo.

Regards Alan

[Dean Rudland]

Dean, good to have someone of your calibre on this site.

Can you elaborate a little more on Scorpio's form and history as far as its issuing of vinyl goes ?

I mean , are they doing deals with Sony/Motown and Polydor/Polygram etc etc ?

Also a lot of the LP's were on indie labels which are of course long gone and for which surely there would surely be no masters in existence and no rights owners or label owners for them to have to answer to ?

I think Scorpio's owners have a long history in US distribution and are well connected within the US record industry. When the initial glut of these releases appeared I was convinced that they had to be boots, but after checking with a few labels it seems they were legit, and if they were licensing off of the indies, I'm sure they must have been licensing when doing the major stuff.

Judging by the sound quality though, masters are very rarely used.

Dean