Please Moderator

[Prophonics 2029]

Oh for F==k sake all this has made me cock up on my Itunes, i have put a Verve demo picture in a verve issue records album picture folder and I don't know how to get rid of it.

[Guest Bogue]

Where does 'Mr Bang Bang Man' sit in the argument ? Always thought that had Ska leanings ? Wouldn't like to stir of course

[Guest Bearsy]

Oh for F==k sake all this has made me cock up on my Itunes, i have put a Verve demo picture in a verve issue records album picture folder and I don't know how to get rid of it.

delete everything and start again

[TOAD]

SO ITS TRUE THEN

THERES NORTHERN SOUL POLICE OUT THERE!

OPPS IVE BEEN NAUGHTY POSTING NON NSOUL TUNES UP SLAPPED WRIST

OH A NICE DUANE EDDY TRACK HAS BEN POSTED !

[Guest Bearsy]

SO ITS TRUE THEN

THERES NORTHERN SOUL POLICE OUT THERE!

OPPS IVE BEEN NAUGHTY POSTING NON NSOUL TUNES UP SLAPPED WRIST

OH A NICE DUANE EDDY TRACK HAS BEN POSTED !

evening all

[Prophonics 2029]

delete everything and start again

Yes thanks for the tip, just re-booted from the install discs and its cleared the problem a treat.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Prophonics 2026

[Tony Smith]

Where does 'Mr Bang Bang Man' sit in the argument ? Always thought that had Ska leanings ? Wouldn't like to stir of course

It's a record recorded by a white guy for Monument records in 1966, it's risque title got Decca/London UK worried enough to pull it from release.

It is not a ska record.

[Guest Bogue]

It's a record recorded by a white guy for Monument records in 1966, it's risque title got Decca/London UK worried enough to pull it from release.

It is not a ska record.

Bit of a Ska beat though don't you think Tony ? The missing link ?

[Pete S]

THINK ID BETTER CANCEL MY TROJAN SPOTS IN FUTURE WOULDNT WANT TO ANNOY ANYONE

Calm down Tim,we're all pals here

[Tony Smith]

Bit of a Ska beat though don't you think Tony ? The missing link ?

No, but if Geno Washington had got it, it could've been the follow up to "Michael" and a hit, and the all the Rik Gunnel artists... cue Tony Coleby....still no ska

[Kevinkent]

Where does 'Mr Bang Bang Man' sit in the argument ? Always thought that had Ska leanings ? Wouldn't like to stir of course

Stir-it-up? of course not!

I used to get pestered a lot at a certain venue with "Got any Ska?"

Nearest they got from me was.... .... I'm Slowly Molding - Cody Black.

[Guest Bogue]

No, but if Geno Washington had got it, it could've been the follow up to "Michael" and a hit, and the all the Rik Gunnel artists... cue Tony Coleby....still no ska

Not even a teeny weeny bit ?

Was Geno Washington going to record it then ? or were you just musing ?

Great version of 'Micheal' was Geno's Hadn't heard it before i saw him perform it on that concert that coincided with that TV series we don't like to talk about.

[Kevinkent]

Type away we'd love to hear your opinion

Too tired really Tony, and would take far too long with my one finger tap.

In a Nutshell though: Used to like Ska many years ago, but grew out of it. I'd still prefer to listen to it (if I had to) than Modern - which reminds me of YMCA disco's and the reason I'm so thankful that Northern came into my life.

Oh - and anything with the word "Funk" in it I avoid at all cost.

Now..."time for bed ,I'm knackered", said Zebedee

[Guest ScooterNik]

I'm told Prince Busters' "Al Capone" or "One Step Beyond" were played at Wigan? Anyone know?

And where does this leave stuff like my current favourite cover "Green Onions" by Byron Lee and The Dragonairres? Well known for their rocksteady stuff but its not even slightly jamaican sounding

Edited October 13, 2007 by ScooterNik

[Ady Croasdell]

Cool down folks, we have a great little sub-forum going and I have no complaints if people don't want new posts showing up in the northern sections, I think maybe some took Tony's post the wrong way maybe? I am heartened by the support forthe ska forum as well though, don't get me wrong, but it shouldn't dominate the soul sections. Chrissie you made some good points re modern and disco though...

Never mind the topic what about the diplomatic skills of our own poacher turned gamekeeper Pete Smith! Transformation or what? I seriously think he's handling this and other matters excellently and can't believe he's the same bloke who had all those ding-dongs with me and others over the past few years.

He gets my moderator of the month award and and a big thank you for his work and attitude. Go Pete (in a nice way)

[Ady Croasdell]

I'm told Prince Busters' "Al Capone" or "One Step Beyond" were played at Wigan? Anyone know?

And where does this leave stuff like my current favourite cover "Green Onions" by Byron Lee and The Dragonairres? Well known for their rocksteady stuff but its not even slightly jamaican sounding

I was going to Northern all nighters since early 1969 and never heard one West Indian record except Jackie Edwards 'I Feel So Bad'. The early 60s mod scene played Derrick & Patsy 'Gypsy Woman' and a handfull of others at the soul clubs like the Last Chance and general mod clubs would play plenty mixed in with the soul but not on the Northern or old soul scene. Though they would play Human Beinz, Swingin' Medallions, Frankie Valli etc. If the West Indian beat of the record had been uptempo on the 4s they would have played it but it wasn't. I like Ska and reggae but to me it's from a different country to soul and in context is as relevant as South African or Nigerian music, some soul influence but very much its own music.

However having a bit of it on here doesn't bug me, particularly if its fenced off.

[Soulgrit]

It's a record recorded by a white guy for Monument records in 1966, it's risque title got Decca/London UK worried enough to pull it from release.

It is not a ska record.

Mr Bang Bang Man by Little Hank was played at the wheel, 1968, it must have been an American issue. was quite popular but not one of my fav's.

[Soulgrit]

I'm told Prince Busters' "Al Capone" or "One Step Beyond" were played at Wigan? Anyone know?

And where does this leave stuff like my current favourite cover "Green Onions" by Byron Lee and The Dragonairres? Well known for their rocksteady stuff but its not even slightly jamaican sounding

They were both played at the wheel, I think they were also played at Wigan but not sure, The ex-wheel dj's that went over to Wigan played a lot of the same tunes there, but it was called Bluebeat then, Reggie and Ska followed

[Ady Croasdell]

Bit of a Ska beat though don't you think Tony ? The missing link ?

Probably more of a New Orleans beat like Ride Your Pony. N O influenced Ska a lot due to its radio stations beaming out to the islands, so it's more the other way around.

[Ady Croasdell]

They were both played at the wheel, I think they were also played at Wigan but not sure, The ex-wheel dj's that went over to Wigan played a lot of the same tunes there, but it was called Bluebeat then, Reggie and Ska followed

If they were played at the Wheel it was on a general mod night not an Old Soul night, the fore-runner to Northern. Let's face it the Pistols played live at the 100 Club but Pretty Vacant ain't Northern. I think you're wrong about Wigan playing any ska.

[Soulgrit]

If they were played at the Wheel it was on a general mod night not an Old Soul night, the fore-runner to Northern. Let's face it the Pistols played live at the 100 Club but Pretty Vacant ain't Northern. I think you're wrong about Wigan playing any ska.

Hi Ady, been going to the wheel from 1968 with a few mates from Carlisle, Dickie Watt was one of them, they were definitey played at the Wheel and another couple but can't remember who or title, maybe very early, but was known as Bluebeat.

Willie

[Ady Croasdell]

Hi Ady, been going to the wheel from 1968 with a few mates from Carlisle, Dickie Watt was one of them, they were definitey played at the Wheel and another couple but can't remember who or title, maybe very early, but was known as Bluebeat.

Willie

i'm not disputing that Willie, what I'm asking is was it one of the Old Soul nights or just a general night. Certainly in Northants at the same time we didn't play any ska or blue beat.

[Russ Vickers]

I'm told Prince Busters' "Al Capone" or "One Step Beyond" were played at Wigan? Anyone know?

And where does this leave stuff like my current favourite cover "Green Onions" by Byron Lee and The Dragonairres? Well known for their rocksteady stuff but its not even slightly jamaican sounding

Russ W deffo played this at Wigan, Im pretty sure it was on a normal night too & not a Mod night (which they did a few of from '79 or '80). It was a low point for me & the venue IMO, it was almost like desperation on the part of RW to appease the masses of 'new' Mods that had massed to Wigan after Quadraphenia............to be honest it was all a bit embarrasing & was not played in any kinda context what so ever.

I kinda agree with Tony on this, but have no axe to grind, so if its boxed off then you choose to listen to what you listen to. What I do find frustrating is this constant knocking of anything other than straight up traditional NS................Modern, Crossover, 8ts, 9ts & contemporary soul are an integral part of the scene & have been since this kinda music was first being made & with each passing decade the scene to some extent has taken on 'some' of those releases which fit & have the x factor.........some people will hijack almost any thread to diss anything after '69.........get over it............BTW Pete has shown great restraint..........hope you are feeling well .

Russ

[Guest]

You what?

I'm not imposing my views, just saying I didn't want it imposed on me, get back in your box.

i totally agree

[Guest]

SO ITS TRUE THEN

THERES NORTHERN SOUL POLICE OUT THERE!

OPPS IVE BEEN NAUGHTY POSTING NON NSOUL TUNES UP SLAPPED WRIST

OH A NICE DUANE EDDY TRACK HAS BEN POSTED !

Its not fukcin`ska is it,great sax and same as a version out of the blues brothers,i think its R&B myself

[Godzilla]

I was going to Northern all nighters since early 1969 and never heard one West Indian record except Jackie Edwards 'I Feel So Bad'.

I remember Jimmy James & Vagabonds "Help Yourself" getting played at Wigan around '74ish. It was on a weird blue Trojan Label (Trojan Disco Pick or something like that?)

I guess it was probably a UK production though? Which makes my post slightly pointless

Godz

[Pete S]

Never mind the topic what about the diplomatic skills of our own poacher turned gamekeeper Pete Smith! Transformation or what? I seriously think he's handling this and other matters excellently and can't believe he's the same bloke who had all those ding-dongs with me and others over the past few years.

He gets my moderator of the month award and and a big thank you for his work and attitude. Go Pete (in a nice way)

Thank you very much Ady. I think it has to be traced back to the birth of my little boy. Changed me overnight it did! Nowadays I'm more chilled out and less angry.

I'm still going to frame this though

[Pete S]

I remember Jimmy James & Vagabonds "Help Yourself" getting played at Wigan around '74ish. It was on a weird blue Trojan Label (Trojan Disco Pick or something like that?)

I guess it was probably a UK production though? Which makes my post slightly pointless

Godz

That was reissued purely to Northern demand Godz, it originally came out on the old orange and white Trojan label and is quite rare.

[Godzilla]

That was reissued purely to Northern demand Godz, it originally came out on the old orange and white Trojan label and is quite rare.

Ahh right

So is the original issue a UK or Jamaican recording then Pete? And what year was the reissue? I remember the blue ones being in stock in my local record record shop when it was getting played because I used to buy them and flog them for a couple of quid more at the Casino.

[Pete S]

Ahh right

So is the original issue a UK or Jamaican recording then Pete? And what year was the reissue? I remember the blue ones being in stock in my local record record shop when it was getting played because I used to buy them and flog them for a couple of quid more at the Casino.

UK recording mate. Reissued 74 I think, remember it appearing in a Wigan Casino top 10 in Record Mirror when "The Night" was the biggest sound so that should date it to early 74

[Ady Croasdell]

Ahh right

So is the original issue a UK or Jamaican recording then Pete? And what year was the reissue? I remember the blue ones being in stock in my local record record shop when it was getting played because I used to buy them and flog them for a couple of quid more at the Casino.

I'd guess a UK recording as Jimmy had long since moved here and was singing soul virtually all the time by then. Like other UK acts and white Americans he was singing in an uptempo black US soul style as opposed to a West Indian style so it was an obvious choice for the scene.

I'm glad I missed Al Capone at the Casino, most of the London soul scene had given up on Wigan by then.

[Guest edsuede]

Usually on here it's the tired old chestnut- oldies versus newies.....we've got a whole new thing going here.....ska versus disco!

I'm going to go and get a nice calming peppermint tea and I suggest everybody do the same!

As someone who's first musical obsession was 2-Tone back in the late 70s when most of my school mates were into disco chart dross, this Ska vs Disco thing is making me all nostalgic!!!!

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Strangely enough they used to be called Chubby & The Turnpikes - The Tavares that is.

And before that - and before 'Linda' left - they were called 'Linda And The Del Rios'...

Don't think that they were ever called 'The Tavares', though

Edited October 13, 2007 by TONY ROUNCE

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

It's a record recorded by a white guy for Monument records in 1966, it's risque title got Decca/London UK worried enough to pull it from release.

It is not a ska record.

.and Little Hank wasn't white, either, last time I checked. Nor, for that matter, was MBBM on Monument in the USA....

[Dave Fleming]

What I do find frustrating is this constant knocking of anything other than straight up traditional NS................Modern, Crossover, 8ts, 9ts & contemporary soul are an integral part of the scene & have been since this kinda music was first being made & with each passing decade the scene to some extent has taken on 'some' of those releases which fit & have the x factor.........some people will hijack almost any thread to diss anything after '69.........get over it............

Russ

Spot on Russ

Dave f.............

[Guest Karen Heath]

As someone who's first musical obsession was 2-Tone back in the late 70s when most of my school mates were into disco chart dross, this Ska vs Disco thing is making me all nostalgic!!!!

Don't tell anyone but at school, I liked both!

[Pete S]

What I do find frustrating is this constant knocking of anything other than straight up traditional NS................Modern, Crossover, 8ts, 9ts & contemporary soul are an integral part of the scene & have been since this kinda music was first being made & with each passing decade the scene to some extent has taken on 'some' of those releases which fit & have the x factor.........some people will hijack almost any thread to diss anything after '69.........get over it............

Well y'see Russ, a lot of people knock it because it sounds nothing like the music they like, and just because you and your pals are 'open minded' about what the Northern scene should be about and obviously a little further along the evolutionary chain, a lot of people simply don't like modern/80's/90's whatever. That's it - they just don't like it. It's not Northern Soul. Get over it.

[Soulgrit]

i'm not disputing that Willie, what I'm asking is was it one of the Old Soul nights or just a general night. Certainly in Northants at the same time we didn't play any ska or blue beat.

Hi Ady, it was properly a general night, but they seemed to fade away (pleased) in about 1969. It was the very early days of Whitworth St.

Willie

[manus]

Russ W deffo played this at Wigan, Im pretty sure it was on a normal night too & not a Mod night (which they did a few of from '79 or '80). It was a low point for me & the venue IMO, it was almost like desperation on the part of RW to appease the masses of 'new' Mods that had massed to Wigan after Quadraphenia............to be honest it was all a bit embarrasing & was not played in any kinda context what so ever.

I kinda agree with Tony on this, but have no axe to grind, so if its boxed off then you choose to listen to what you listen to. What I do find frustrating is this constant knocking of anything other than straight up traditional NS................Modern, Crossover, 8ts, 9ts & contemporary soul are an integral part of the scene & have been since this kinda music was first being made & with each passing decade the scene to some extent has taken on 'some' of those releases which fit & have the x factor.........some people will hijack almost any thread to diss anything after '69.........get over it............BTW Pete has shown great restraint..........hope you are feeling well .

.

Russ

Agreed. People tend to forget that even at places like Wigan new releases were played. Betty Wright's (best live act at Wigan hands down IMO) "Where is the love" was massive and Millie Jackson's "House for sale" & The Commodores " The Zoo" and many recently released things by the likes of Oscar Perry and others were not only played but very popular.

Just a quick question that hopefully Ady or Soulgrit might answer as I've enjoyed their bit of talk about the Wheel era. I remember when I used to go to the Oxford ballrooms under 18 nights in Newcastle around 1970 and they used to play mostly Tamla, Invictus and Reggae tunes. But there was one tune ( by some white collective I think) that they used to play a lot at the time that I was later stunned to hear at Wigan around 75/76.

Dave Evison played it and annonced it as an old Wheel sound. I can't remember who it was by - here's some of the lyrics I remember- they may be a wee inaccurate but you'll get the gist. Anyone any idea?

Quick Joey Small jumped over the wall cause the cops were on his tail

Run Joey Joey run run gonna put you back in jail

Said he's got a shotgun - me memory siezes up at this point

As I've said I was fairly surprised to hear this 6 or so years later at Wigan but there you go.

Cheers

Manus

[ImberBoy]

QUICK JOEY SMALL

Kasenetz Katz Singing Orchestral Circus - 1968

Quick Joey Small went over the wall

With a ball an' a chain behind him

Quick Joey Small went over the wall

Send the dogs right out to find him.

In a striped prision suit with no room to move

He headed for the highway

With his chain still dragin'

He thumbed down a wagon said Well you're goin my way.

And they say now

Run Joey , Joey run run the hounds are on your trail

Jump-up Jump-up

Run Joey , Joey run run they're gonna send you back to jail.

Sheriff got a shotgun, he do

He'll fill you full of lead son, it's true.

He's also got a blackjack, he's mad

He'd bust your head with one wack,

Here I go now.

Run Joey , Joey run run the hounds are on your trail.

Sweet Mary Jane was goin' insane

When she heard of Joey's jail break

But she knew all the while 'cause

She sent him a file

Baked inside a fudge cake.

Sheriff Jack Banes was a light on brains

But he knew one thing for sure

He took some toughs and a pair of handcuffs

And headed straight for Mary Jane's door

[manus]

Thanks for that Imberboy - no wonder I couldn't remember who it was by. I knew it was some sort of collective though.

Cheers

Manus

[Ady Croasdell]

That is pretty amazing that they played that one, it was a big hit and looked on as mainly for kids. There were a few hits by the people behind it and it was known as Bubblegum music, a bit like an early version of glam rock musically (light hearted pop). It's probably similar to the Newbeats earlier Northern hits in that way.

I remember when we were skinheads Free's All Right Now was massive until it became a number one.

[Tony Smith]

.and Little Hank wasn't white, either, last time I checked. Nor, for that matter, was MBBM on Monument in the USA....

Oops I slipped up there, well spotted Tony, but, it's not a ska record, that much is true.

[Tony Smith]

I remember when we were skinheads Free's All Right Now was massive until it became a number one.

Did you moonstomp to it?

[Pete S]

That is pretty amazing that they played that one, it was a big hit and looked on as mainly for kids. There were a few hits by the people behind it and it was known as Bubblegum music, a bit like an early version of glam rock musically (light hearted pop). It's probably similar to the Newbeats earlier Northern hits in that way.

Previously, those same people were responsible for Christine Cooper's Heartaches Away My Boy!

[Pete S]

Not even a teeny weeny bit ?

I don't think so either Bogue.

There is one Northern track that has a ska rhythm, people might not hear it immediately but if you listen to "Deceived" by Ruby, part of the verses go into a ska rhythm.

[Guest soulmaguk]

QUICK JOEY SMALL

Kasenetz Katz Singing Orchestral Circus - 1968

Quick Joey Small went over the wall

With a ball an' a chain behind him

Quick Joey Small went over the wall

Send the dogs right out to find him.

In a striped prision suit with no room to move

He headed for the highway

With his chain still dragin'

He thumbed down a wagon said Well you're goin my way.

And they say now

Run Joey , Joey run run the hounds are on your trail

Jump-up Jump-up

Run Joey , Joey run run they're gonna send you back to jail.

Sheriff got a shotgun, he do

He'll fill you full of lead son, it's true.

He's also got a blackjack, he's mad

He'd bust your head with one wack,

Here I go now.

Run Joey , Joey run run the hounds are on your trail.

Sweet Mary Jane was goin' insane

When she heard of Joey's jail break

But she knew all the while 'cause

She sent him a file

Baked inside a fudge cake.

Sheriff Jack Banes was a light on brains

But he knew one thing for sure

He took some toughs and a pair of handcuffs

And headed straight for Mary Jane's door

Poetry. Just so.

[Garethx]

Where does Wilson Pickett"s "Let Me Be Your Boy" (Correctone, Cub, etc.) fit into all this. Along with the Ruby 45 Pete mentions I've always viewed this as some sort of homage to the Jamaican rhythms of the time.

[Ady Croasdell]

Did you moonstomp to it?

Exactly D Ms were limiting to us skins who prefered to dance rather than have a bit of bovver.

[Biggordy]

"Let Me Be Your Boy" has more of a Latin tango feel to the rhythm IMO.

So go past Jamaica a couple hundred miles and turn left

Oh, and sorry for being a pedantic git but ska and bluebeat are one and the same. Bluebeat is just a "nickname" given to ska at the time by the UK music press as a good percentage of the tunes were on the Bluebeat label.

There ARE dedicated forums to ska and reggae already. I run one of the biggest and best.

Gordy