Record Gradings

[Ste Henderson]

Anybody help?

I have just received delivery from the states a record which was over $200, I wont name the record or the dealer involved, I bought it as VG+ no other description on the record from the dealer.

It has cue burn on both sides on intro also plays with crackles throughout both sides and has quite a few scuff marks, ( I say both sides as both recordings are excellent tracks).

I am a bit dissapointed to say the least, what would you do send it back or was the term VG+ a fair grading?

Steve

[John Elias]

If they graded it VG+ I would expect cue burn on styrene and perhaps slight crackle in quieter parts of the tune but overall should play through without crackles and pops.

Whether you send it back will depend on how easy or hard it would be to find another.

[Rbman]

Anybody help?

I have just received delivery from the states a record which was over $200, I wont name the record or the dealer involved, I bought it as VG+ no other description on the record from the dealer.

It has cue burn on both sides on intro also plays with crackles throughout both sides and has quite a few scuff marks, ( I say both sides as both recordings are excellent tracks).

I am a bit dissapointed to say the least, what would you do send it back or was the term VG+ a fair grading?

Steve

On the USA grading system I would not expect cue burn for a VG+

Edited October 11, 2007 by Rbman

[Val (Chunky)]

On the USA grading system I would not expect cue burn for a VG+

more Mint- ?

[Pete S]

Absolutely no way should it have cue burn and if this wasn't mentioned you should ask for a refund. A VG+ record has been played a bit, might have the odd click here and there, but still play really well. Mine do anyway!

[Guest martyn]

Absolutely no way should it have cue burn and if this wasn't mentioned you should ask for a refund. A VG+ record has been played a bit, might have the odd click here and there, but still play really well. Mine do anyway!

Perhaps one for another thread, but,how did we reach a situation where a record described as very good should be bought with caution ? Should it be described as NOT very good ( or perhaps even shite +) ?

Edited October 11, 2007 by martyn

[John Elias]

Perhaps one for another thread, but,how did we reach a situation where a record described as very good should be bought with caution ? Should it be described as NOT very good ( or perhaps even shite +) ?

Coul open up a whole new grading system called The Shitzer scale !!

[Larsc]

From an american seller a VG+ should play and look very nice. The cue burn alone should make it no more than VG.

[Guest martyn]

Coul open up a whole new grading system called The Shitzer scale !!

And why not ? Probably more honest than the gradings we use at the lower end now,for example VG + could become D (Dingleberry),VG would be ST (steaming turd) & VG- would be SS (skits & scats)

On a serious note though,how did we reach this absurd situation?

[Guest]

Absolutely no way should it have cue burn and if this wasn't mentioned you should ask for a refund. A VG+ record has been played a bit, might have the odd click here and there, but still play really well. Mine do anyway!

VG+ or VG++ with the USA dealers should be EX+ and near Mint- respectively. Certainly the case with dealers like Barry Wickham or Craig Moerer and other condition concious dealers.

Problem is only OLD-SCHOOL USA dealers ever used the grade EXCELLENT and it now seems almost to have disappeared from the grading altogether.

Where as Excellent is a grade that the established UK dealers have always used, thus VG and VG+ in the UK is a much-lower grade than VG USA.

This situation has become much more apparent since the internet fused record dealing each side of the Atlantic.

You need to experience what the grades of each individual dealer considers is his version. Pete and myself use VG as a UK grading. That is how it has been since I started and that is how "Record Collector" magazine depicts grading.. VG is way down the scale.

My VG is certainly marked scratchy vinyl but plays without faults but maybe has occasional pop or click.

You have to look at the history of record dealing before I even a started to understand that VG in the UK does NOT mean VERY GOOD it means a full 6 grades below MINT.

Where as VG++ can be only one or two grades below MINT in the USA.

But CUE BURN should always without fail be mentioned, as it is a fault. But we and most other dealers visually grade unless they see a reason to play it.

Hope that clarify the dealers position on this. Any purchase your not satified must be accepted back by the seller.. that is retail law not a choice.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Let's not forget the Jamaican-based reggae record dealer's grading system:

Mint - covered in surface marks, names of 6 previous owners on label on the label, titles and label logo probably scratched out...

Mint Minus - could easily be mistaken for a Black and Decker sanding disc. Labels probably totally obliterated. Might play, but be careful of that edge chip.

Excellent - one previous owner, the dealer's Rottweiler. Record is probably warped, off centre and look out for that cigarette burn about 30 seconds in...

Good - Bad

Fair - Fair(ly unplayable)

...this is in no way meant to denigrate the excellent and very fair gradings of most UK and North American based reggae dealers, of course....

[DeltaSouth]

I was under the impression that E and VG++ are very similar on the grade scale.

That might be a mistaken impression.

A VG+ plus disc WILL have some obvious signs of use, but should still be shiney vinyl with a few imperfections

and no major ticks (noise) but as mentioned above will have slight noise.

shiite+ is the same as roadkill- ?

dogtoy+ and frisbee- are very close, i know...

I see alot of "VG+'s" that clearly AIN'T.

Some folks don't know what the hell a scratch on a record is? That isn't rocket science, imho.

I get the impression some sellers need glasses or better lighting.

Edited October 15, 2007 by vinyldisc

[boba]

Let's not forget the Jamaican-based reggae record dealer's grading system:

Mint - covered in surface marks, names of 6 previous owners on label on the label, titles and label logo probably scratched out...

Mint Minus - could easily be mistaken for a Black and Decker sanding disc. Labels probably totally obliterated. Might play, but be careful of that edge chip.

Excellent - one previous owner, the dealer's Rottweiler. Record is probably warped, off centre and look out for that cigarette burn about 30 seconds in...

Good - Bad

Fair - Fair(ly unplayable)

...this is in no way meant to denigrate the excellent and very fair gradings of most UK and North American based reggae dealers, of course....

seems accurate for North American Jamaican dealers selling soul (with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions). Easy to spot because "rare" will get spelled as REAR.

[Stubbsy]

Let's not forget the Jamaican-based reggae record dealer's grading system:

Mint - covered in surface marks, names of 6 previous owners on label on the label, titles and label logo probably scratched out...

Mint Minus - could easily be mistaken for a Black and Decker sanding disc. Labels probably totally obliterated. Might play, but be careful of that edge chip.

Excellent - one previous owner, the dealer's Rottweiler. Record is probably warped, off centre and look out for that cigarette burn about 30 seconds in...

Good - Bad

Fair - Fair(ly unplayable)

...this is in no way meant to denigrate the excellent and very fair gradings of most UK and North American based reggae dealers, of course....

Excellent Tony. I know you're probably serious but this did make me