You Have To Wonder Why

[Dave Moore]

I feel like I've gone through a 30 year timewarp. But I'm still a fat get and my hair's not grown back.

This is a debate (originals / bootlegs) that will rage as long as people remember what a record is.

I don't know either of the the people involved but it does sound like someone's trying to wind someone up big time.

Phil

And succeeded admirably by the look of it!

Boots v Originals....zzzzzz. Been raging since Sam were a lad.

No different to playing an EMI disc from back in the day. Wrong according to real collectors/DJ ethics I agree, but there'll never be any stopping it whilst the real motivation behind many people getting into collecting is to be a "DJ". ie. most 'DJ' types nowadays.

Taking another DJ's 45 off the Technic whilst it's still playing though? Did you ACTUALLY do that James? I remember you posting a similar thread last year but it turned out you didn't actually take the 45 off whilst it was still playing. Be interesting if you did to know wat the DJ's reaction was. I know a few guys that would react rather 'strongly' if it happened to them.

[Guest Paul]

...I don't think the rights of the artists, producers, writers etc are really that relevent here..

That's what I suspected, James. Your noble and brave concerns are for yourself. Your reputation and Your investments.

It's a pity the scene is spoiled by so many less forward thinking DJs and their not so cool and upfront punters who like shagging each other at retro fancy dress pop discos.

Educate them or get rid of them, then you will be king.

Paul Mooney

[Guest James Trouble]

That's what I suspected, James. Your noble and brave concerns are for yourself. Your reputation and Your investments.

It's a pity the scene is spoiled by so many less forward thinking DJs and their not so cool and upfront punters who like shagging each other at retro fancy dress pop discos.

Educate them or get rid of them, then you will be king.

Paul Mooney

Nice edit of my post Paul, no need for me to respond to that, I'll just refer you back to the post you've edited

[Guest DonnaD]

That's what I suspected, James. Your noble and brave concerns are for yourself. Your reputation and Your investments.

It's a pity the scene is spoiled by so many less forward thinking DJs and their not so cool and upfront punters who like shagging each other at retro fancy dress pop discos.

Educate them or get rid of them, then you will be king.

Paul Mooney

Good Grief. I think you should apologise for such a ridiculous comment. It is obvious that this Rob bloke's only aim was to stitch both James and the other DJ up and for him, it had nothing to do with the music. You've just used this issue to have an unwarrented pop at James - what's your problem? If you can't stick to the topic at hand then its probably better you dont post, or try posting when you are sober

[Guest Paul]

Nice edit of my post Paul, no need for me to respond to that, I'll just refer you back to the post you've edited

Everyone saw your full post, James. I selected relevant parts and used them in context.

I just read it again and it's clear to me that your concerns are about your rights. It's also clear that you don't seem to have a very high opinion of many other DJs and their punters.

Are you really saying I got it wrong???

Paul Mooney

[Ady Croasdell]

Everyone saw your full post, James. I selected relevant parts and used them in context.

I just read it again and it's clear to me that your concerns are about your rights. It's also clear that you don't seem to have a very high opinion of many other DJs and their punters.

Are you really saying I got it wrong???

Paul Mooney

Paul you're shifting the area of discussion here into one not relevant for this posting. It was never about recording rights, it was about DJing etiquette. Yes James is concerned about his and others Djing rights, the question of label owners, songwriters and artists rights was only brought up by you and is not being discussed here, so why you're jumping to unproven conclusions I'm not sure.

[Guest James Trouble]

Everyone saw your full post, James. I selected relevant parts and used them in context.

I just read it again and it's clear to me that your concerns are about your rights. It's also clear that you don't seem to have a very high opinion of many other DJs and their punters.

Are you really saying I got it wrong???

Paul Mooney

I refer you back to the original post Paul

Perhaps stay on topic re: the DJs/punters comment before a mod reigns you in? I think most folk around here know my opinions on this matter. It's totally off topic...

[Jumpinjoan]

Are we talking about 'Time Changes Things' ?

If so.... I'd like to know why anyone would want to play Willie Kendrick's in the first place when there's the Metro's version?

Far superior...

Not to mention the fact that the Metros has been played for years... so it's hardly a new record... just a different version of an old song.

Apologies if it's not TCT you're talking about... but the Metros is still better!

[Simon M]

sorry but whats Djing rights again ?

Simon

Edited October 7, 2007 by Simon M

[Ady Potts]

I have told this one on here before, but whilst you're finding it a little painful to sit down James, perhaps this will bring a touch of light relief.

A few years back I was sitting talking to a mate from the states about Gloria Gaynors - Never can say goodbye. He said, I wonder how many top u.k. dj's will know the flip to this massive hit? Good point I said, lets find out !

So, I just happened to find an old one sided acetate without a label on of the flipside down the garden shed, like you do, ahem.

That weekend, Sam & Arthur were at Bedford. Armed with the portable I set up shop. Have a listen to this Sam, see what you think. Nice he said, how much ? No sorry mate, want to keep it. Arthur...that's nice.

Into the picture walks Rob Thomas. Have a listen to this Rob. Rob blasts forth with a rather eloquent " Give that fooker ere, sure you must owe me for some fookin thing!" & off he drones into the distance emitting a sound very reminiscent of an old Lancaster bomber.

Next weekend he's behind the decks, prime spot, playing all his big numbers. Puts on the Appointments - I saw you there. Then puts on "HIS NEW BIG DISCOVERY". A bloke comes walking from the middle of the dance floor & up to the decks & shouts at Rob " why are you playing the flip to Never Can Say Goodbye?"

Regards,

pottsy.

[Guest Bearsy]

sorry but whats Djing rights again ?

Simon

the opposite to Djing wrongs i guess

[Guest Paul]

Paul you're shifting the area of discussion here into one not relevant for this posting. It was never about recording rights, it was about DJing etiquette. Yes James is concerned about his and others Djing rights, the question of label owners, songwriters and artists rights was only brought up by you and is not being discussed here, so why you're jumping to unproven conclusions I'm not sure.

Hello,

With respect, Ady, I clearly stated that I though James and Rob were both in the wrong and I added that I accepted there were moral issues here - such as DJ etiquette.

However, I saw more significant aspects of this issue (in my opinion at least) so I expressed my opinion with the addition of a humerous comment. If by doing that I have strayed off topic then I'm sorry but most threads get stretched much further.

I hope there isn't an unspoken rule here that nobody should dare to question or criticise a DJ.

Paul Mooney

[Guest Paul]

I have told this one on here before, but whilst you're finding it a little painful to sit down James, perhaps this will bring a touch of light relief.

A few years back I was sitting talking to a mate from the states about Gloria Gaynors - Never can say goodbye. He said, I wonder how many top u.k. dj's will know the flip to this massive hit? Good point I said, lets find out !

So, I just happened to find an old one sided acetate without a label on of the flipside down the garden shed, like you do, ahem.

That weekend, Sam & Arthur were at Bedford. Armed with the portable I set up shop. Have a listen to this Sam, see what you think. Nice he said, how much ? No sorry mate, want to keep it. Arthur...that's nice.

Into the picture walks Rob Thomas. Have a listen to this Rob. Rob blasts forth with a rather eloquent " Give that fooker ere, sure you must owe me for some fookin thing!" & off he drones into the distance emitting a sound very reminiscent of an old Lancaster bomber.

Next weekend he's behind the decks, prime spot, playing all his big numbers. Puts on the Appointments - I saw you there. Then puts on "HIS NEW BIG DISCOVERY". A bloke comes walking from the middle of the dance floor & up to the decks & shouts at Rob " why are you playing the flip to Never Can Say Goodbye?"

Regards,

pottsy.

Brilliant!

[Guest Paul]

Good Grief. I think you should apologise for such a ridiculous comment. It is obvious that this Rob bloke's only aim was to stitch both James and the other DJ up and for him, it had nothing to do with the music. You've just used this issue to have an unwarrented pop at James - what's your problem? If you can't stick to the topic at hand then its probably better you dont post, or try posting when you are sober

Hello Donna,

My comments may seem ridiculous to you but I believe them to be true and they took the basis of James' very own words... "I don't think the rights of the artists, producers, writers etc are really that relevent here..."

I'm not having a "pop" at James, I also said that Rob was in the wrong.

I find this thread entertaining one one hand and disturbing on the other because it shows how some DJs have become far more important than the music itself. That's just my opinion of course.

And my comment to James about "then you will be king" was a joke (as indicated by the symbol) but I apologise if you were offended by it.

Finally, Donna, I don't have a problem and I'm not drunk; I'm just expressing my opinion. If you really think it's better if I didn't post then please raise that point with a moderator and I will respect their wishes.

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

[Sean Hampsey]

I have told this one on here before, but whilst you're finding it a little painful to sit down James, perhaps this will bring a touch of light relief.

A few years back I was sitting talking to a mate from the states about Gloria Gaynors - Never can say goodbye. He said, I wonder how many top u.k. dj's will know the flip to this massive hit? Good point I said, lets find out !

So, I just happened to find an old one sided acetate without a label on of the flipside down the garden shed, like you do, ahem.

That weekend, Sam & Arthur were at Bedford. Armed with the portable I set up shop. Have a listen to this Sam, see what you think. Nice he said, how much ? No sorry mate, want to keep it. Arthur...that's nice.

Into the picture walks Rob Thomas. Have a listen to this Rob. Rob blasts forth with a rather eloquent " Give that fooker ere, sure you must owe me for some fookin thing!" & off he drones into the distance emitting a sound very reminiscent of an old Lancaster bomber.

Next weekend he's behind the decks, prime spot, playing all his big numbers. Puts on the Appointments - I saw you there. Then puts on "HIS NEW BIG DISCOVERY". A bloke comes walking from the middle of the dance floor & up to the decks & shouts at Rob " why are you playing the flip to Never Can Say Goodbye?"

Regards,

pottsy.

I know it... and used to play it (why is nobody surprised ) a superb track called "We Just Can't Make It".

Back then, also used to play a couple of other neat Gloria Gaynor 'B' sides.... check out "My Man's Gone" (flipside to "How High The Moon") and "Searching" (flipside to "Reach Out I'll Be There") both extremely worthy spins at any decent Soul night, even today!

It's ironic and ridiculous that some 'top' DJ's didn't know such a super tune as "We Just Can't Make It".... but, sadly, extremely typical.

Over 100,000 great records out there to be played, yet so many copycat (DJ's) chasing the same handful of tunes.

Tragic... yet somehow hilarious!

When I'm out, I just wanna hear Soul Music... and have no interest whatsoever in being a spectator to some kind of 'Rarity Contest'.

Sean

PS: The above does in no way infer that I approve of the programming of any kind of illegal, counterfeit, carvered, bootlegged, stolen or other illicit media at any Soul Night anywhere.

[Guest Paul]

I know it... and used to play it (why is nobody surprised ) a superb track called "We Just Can't Make It".

Back then, also used to play a couple of other neat Gloria Gaynor 'B' sides.... check out "My Man's Gone" (flipside to "How High The Moon") and "Searching" (flipside to "Reach Out I'll Be There") both extremely worthy spins at any decent Soul night, even today!

It's ironic and ridiculous that some 'top' DJ's didn't know such a super tune as "We Just Can't Make It".... but, sadly, extremely typical.

Over 100,000 great records out there to be played, yet so many copycat (DJ's) chasing the same handful of tunes.

Tragic... yet somehow hilarious!

When I'm out, I just wanna hear Soul Music... and have no interest whatsoever in being a spectator to some kind of 'Rarity Contest'.

Sean

PS: The above does in no way infer that I approve of the programming of any kind of illegal, counterfeit, carvered, bootlegged, stolen or other illicit media at any Soul Night anywhere.

I agree, Sean, there's so much good soul music out there just waiting to be discovered / rediscovered and exposed - and much of it is inexpensive.

Paul Mooney

[Guest Mark Holmes]

When I'm out, I just wanna hear Soul Music... and have no interest whatsoever in being a spectator to some kind of 'Rarity Contest'.

Sean

PS: The above does in no way infer that I approve of the programming of any kind of illegal, counterfeit, carvered, bootlegged, stolen or other illicit media at any Soul Night anywhere.

[Guest gordon russell]

i took the point to be the fact that someone deliberately made sure james couldn't play the acetate (or he'd look like a twat doing it )by giving a "copy" of said tune to an unwitting earlier dj

are we saying here that the earlier dj....is stupid...if I were djing and someone passed me a bootleg and said "play this" i would say "no way " for two reasons NO BOOTS and I had not heard it. does this dj have no mind of his own?.

[Pauldonnelly]

I'm desperatley trying to search within how I would react to someone coming up to the decks removing the stylus and stoping a record that could have been given to me in good faith by someone I know with a "play this Paul is kin brilliant"

this is a fantastic thread...

[Ady Croasdell]

I hope there isn't an unspoken rule here that nobody should dare to question or criticise a DJ.

Paul Mooney

No. Not remotely, I'm not sure where you got that from

[Jumpinjoan]

I'm desperatley trying to search within how I would react to someone coming up to the decks removing the stylus and stoping a record that could have been given to me in good faith by someone I know with a "play this Paul is kin brilliant"

this is a fantastic thread...

Me too!

Not that I would play someone else's record though.

Did you actually go up and take the record off half way through James?

[Ady Croasdell]

Are we talking about 'Time Changes Things' ?

If so.... I'd like to know why anyone would want to play Willie Kendrick's in the first place when there's the Metro's version?

Far superior...

Not to mention the fact that the Metros has been played for years... so it's hardly a new record... just a different version of an old song.

Apologies if it's not TCT you're talking about... but the Metros is still better!

It's not Joan, I believe it was The Cavaliers Without Someone To Tell Me which as far as I know wasn't covered by anyone else.

[Russ Vickers]

Butch picked up and threw a pressing of Walter & Admerations across the stage at Congleton or somewhere like that, thus starting a craze

Winsford I think mate, was there, where were you Saturday ????. Was hoping to see you at Crossfire.

Russ

[Jumpinjoan]

It's not Joan, I believe it was The Cavaliers Without Someone To Tell Me which as far as I know wasn't covered by anyone else.

Sorry... it was the mention of Willie Kendrick in the first post that threw me.

[Russ Vickers]

I admire your enthusiasm James , but you've found the Northern scene in the wrong decade ..

atb

Simon

Hey Simon..........wondered what this meant mate ?????

Russ

[Simsy]

Maybe Rob's lost the plot a bit.. at the Cleggy dayer he was bragging to anyone who'd listen about how he'd kept the floor clear for an hour.

I know he reads SS, so we might see an explanation.

Perhaps he'll pop by with some convincing evidence of master tape ownership and exonerate himself from all this unpleasantness? Short of that it would appear a deliberate and premeditated attempt to sabotage another dj's spot. Not the act of a friend. Far less a fellow jock on the same bill.

[Simon M]

Hey Simon..........wondered what this meant mate ?????

Russ

Hi Russ ..Its just in the 70's and 80's there were thousands of NS style records to be found and played including new releases ..people had hundreds of records a month to play( if you got up to soul bowl maybe even more ), .People accepted new records and danced to them all night , and the incentive to travel was greater

Simon

[Guest James Trouble]

Perhaps he'll pop by with some convincing evidence of master tape ownership and exonerate himself from all this unpleasantness? Short of that it would appear a deliberate and premeditated attempt to sabotage another dj's spot. Not the act of a friend. Far less a fellow jock on the same bill.

Hi Ian, I'm not sure it's relevent if he does have a master tape or a bootleg tape. I actually have an idea where he got his recording from and I should know later today... Whatever, he's made an illegal copy of it and given it out to a DJ to play before someone who has the original. The important thing to remember here is, if you believe his story (which I don't at the moment but that doesn't matter) he has had it 10 years and has not felt it was good enough to do anything with. But he has travelled to an event he has not been to for years with a bootleg copy of it, to give to a DJ to play before me. Why would he do this? A record he felt was not good enough to share for 10 years, if you believe his story. It's pretty obvious what's going on here, and it's pretty twisted. It's not the act of someone wanting to share brilliant music, it's the act of someone wanting to damage the scene and disrespect everyone at the event he has travelled to to do this.

And I did take the record off, yes, with the consent of Mick H, the promoter, who was standing there at the time. The DJ who played it should have known better, but it wasn't his fault he was fooled into it by Rob Thomas.

[Russ Vickers]

Hi Russ ..Its just in the 70's and 80's there were thousands of NS style records to be found and played including new releases ..people had hundreds of records a month to play( if you got up to soul bowl maybe even more ), .People accepted new records and danced to them all night , and the incentive to travel was greater

Simon

Gotcha matey.

Russ

[Guest James Trouble]

Hi Russ ..Its just in the 70's and 80's there were thousands of NS style records to be found and played including new releases ..people had hundreds of records a month to play( if you got up to soul bowl maybe even more ), .People accepted new records and danced to them all night , and the incentive to travel was greater

Simon

This is a good point and why it is vital to have fresh exciting tunes comign through and for there to be an incentive to find them and play them. People travel to hear music they can't hear at their local, if you take these travellers away the buzz is not there, it stops being the northern scene and turns into a load of local discos with a couple of dozon people at each one, in shitty venues, shitty sound systems, shitty DJs playing dull reissues of Frankie Beverly 4 times in one night ,boring people talking about the two times they went to the casino and how great it was in 1978, keep the faith, right on, and wigan forever...

Edited October 8, 2007 by James Trouble

[Simon M]

Gotcha matey.

Russ

And as you know Russ , situations like this may of happend , but the best jocks would of had 20 to 40 new great records to play

[Simon M]

This is a good point and why it is vital to have fresh exciting tunes comign through and for there to be an incentive to find them and play them. People travel to hear music they can't hear at their local, if you take these travellers away the buzz is not there, it stops being the northern scene and turns into a load of local discos with a couple of dozon people at each one, in shitty venues, shitty sound systems, boring people talking about the two times they went to the casino and how great it was in 1978, keep the faith, right on, wigan forever...

Yeah the point is theres not enough fresh NS sounds for 2007 and a high % prefer the oldies of bygone days at the local venue ,as drinking is a must now, along with the Mrs

Edited October 8, 2007 by Simon M

[sister dawn]

Nice to see Lincolnshires 'Smiler' hasnt lost his wit and good charms over the years. Seriously though I am sure if Rob says he has the acetate then he has..... end of.... he has to my knowledge over the years, got one of the most fantastic collections of rare soul and a knowledge base to match. Rob has been getting out and about a bit more recently after 'his retirement' from the scene a couple of years ago. I am sure the set he was 'bragging about' clearing the floor at Cleethorpes, was top notch rare stuff who the 'serious' collectors would have been chin stroking to in wonderment.

[Guest James Trouble]

Seriously though I am sure if Rob says he has the acetate then he has..... end of....

He doesn't, he says he has a tape of it, which he says he has had for 10 years but I have suspicion where he has recently recorded it from and I should know later today, but if his story is true and he has had it for 10 years he has only given out an boot of it to this DJ after I have started to make it popular. why do it now and not at anytime over the past 10 years? It's pretty obvious.

I've said enough, people can make up their own minds about what he's doing and why he's doing it. And anyone given a bootleg from him can make up their own mind what to do with it.

[Sweeney]

Hi Ian, I'm not sure it's relevent if he does have a master tape or a bootleg tape. I actually have an idea where he got his recording from and I should know later today... Whatever, he's made an illegal copy of it and given it out to a DJ to play before someone who has the original. The important thing to remember here is, if you believe his story (which I don't at the moment but that doesn't matter) he has had it 10 years and has not felt it was good enough to do anything with. But he has travelled to an event he has not been to for years with a bootleg copy of it, to give to a DJ to play before me. Why would he do this? A record he felt was not good enough to share for 10 years, if you believe his story. It's pretty obvious what's going on here, and it's pretty twisted. It's not the act of someone wanting to share brilliant music, it's the act of someone wanting to damage the scene and disrespect everyone at the event he has travelled to to do this.

And I did take the record off, yes, with the consent of Mick H, the promoter, who was standing there at the time. The DJ who played it should have known better, but it wasn't his fault he was fooled into it by Rob Thomas.

It seems that rather than wishing to "damage the scene" and "disrespect everyone" who attended he was merely having a dig at you personally.

I doubt if the scene was damaged in any great or lasting way or that many of the people there felt anything more than a sense of mild amusement if they noticed at all.

Please keep this in perspective.

It is however a very amusing story. I can accept you may have been upset by it though. You should have a word with the other party involved and try to find out why they are behaving in such a fashion.

[Sunnysoul]

I want to know what Pete Smith thinks .

[Trev Thomas]

And I did take the record off, yes, with the consent of Mick H, the promoter, who was standing there at the time. The DJ who played it should have known better, but it wasn't his fault he was fooled into it by Rob Thomas.

[sister dawn]

He doesn't, he says he has a tape of it, which he says he has had for 10 years but I have suspicion where he has recently recorded it from and I should know later today, but if his story is true and he has had it for 10 years he has only given out an boot of it to this DJ after I have started to make it popular. why do it now and not at anytime over the past 10 years? It's pretty obvious.

I've said enough, people can make up their own minds about what he's doing and why he's doing it. And anyone given a bootleg from him can make up their own mind what to do with it.

sorry love got me tapes and acetates muddled. My Apologies

[Corbett80]

This just sounds like a stupid, childish and unfunny thing to do frankly, and pretty sad from what i would imagine is a man in his fifties at least.

Surely any beef should be dealt with face to face rather than through a DJs spots.

Edited October 8, 2007 by mulf

[Supercorsa]

I don't think the rights of the artists, producers, writers etc are really that relevent here. It's the foundations of what make the northern scene so special that are at stake here. The life blood of Northern IMO is people travelling to hear exciting records they can't dance to anywhere else. Take that away and it's just a retro fancy dress pop music disco for local devorced folk looking to shag other local devorced people and chat about how great the Casino was the 3 times they went there when they were 19 and have a dance to Frankie Beverly the four times it gets played that night and think they are cool and 'upfront' because they know Hamilton Movement and clap at the forward thinking DJ for playing it

Up there with Pete Smiths posting about getting some pizzas or dressing gown & slippers!

But back to the original issue. To me it sounds like Rob Thomas (don't know him & have never met him) was just trying to stir it up or get one over on James. I've only spoken to James on a couple of occasions, the impression I got of him was this. He seems passionate about his music and he may come across as very opinionated, but he's not underhand about things and he's not at all conceited. All in all I found him to be a very pleasant chap.

Perhaps James may have acted a bit rashly in the heat of the moment, but why is it he seems to be getting stick when the person who looks worse in this situation (Rob Thomas imo) seems to be getting overlooked. I mean if whenever I've introduced myself to anyone, I say who I am and why I'm introducing myself (i.e both members on SS) not I had your record 10 years ago and if I'm honest with myself jealous that your getting all the glory with it!

I'll nail my colours to the mast and say "I'm with James on this one".

[Tomangoes]

Are these actions common in todays scene?

I thought the art of 'Northernsouldjoneupmanship' had been left behind in the late 70s early 80s.

You must have lost your marbles stopping the record half way through.

Did you tell this story at the start of your spot, or just wait to tell it through a 'safer media'

I bet Rob Thomas is brickin it, but next time youre both on the same bill, Im sure it can be resolved.

Kick off your spot with the Gospel Classics............. And Rob Thomas can start with Ron Holden..........

Ed

By the way, its true that Muriel Day was played at last weekends Whitby soul weekender, but I suspect it was an original, so that makes it OK.

[Trev Thomas]

this all smacks of double standards on mr troubles part, last year someone started a thread on this site about some d.j. playing alternative versions of records that had been doctored on a computer, i seem to remember a male version of marie knight being one of them, anyway mr trouble got involved in the debate & basically said that he couldnt see a problem with it, as the dj only played them for a laugh, maybe rob only gave the other lad the disc to play for a laugh

[Guest sydney bridge]

Up there with Pete Smiths posting about getting some pizzas or dressing gown & slippers!

But back to the original issue. To me it sounds like Rob Thomas (don't know him & have never met him) was just trying to stir it up or get one over on James. I've only spoken to James on a couple of occasions, the impression I got of him was this. He seems passionate about his music and he may come across as very opinionated, but he's not underhand about things and he's not at all conceited. All in all I found him to be a very pleasant chap.

Perhaps James may have acted a bit rashly in the heat of the moment, but why is it he seems to be getting stick when the person who looks worse in this situation (Rob Thomas imo) seems to be getting overlooked. I mean if whenever I've introduced myself to anyone, I say who I am and why I'm introducing myself (i.e both members on SS) not I had your record 10 years ago and if I'm honest with myself jealous that your getting all the glory with it!

I'll nail my colours to the mast and say "I'm with James on this one".

good one super,if northern soul was a food product,the packaging would have the words...CAUTION,MAY CONTAIN CANTANKEROUS OLD GITS...on it.

[Corbett80]

Its just playground pisstaking. Do it somewhere else.

[Guest cenco]

james dont really want to get involved in all this but i can clear one thing up for u rob has had the track along time i,m sure he played it at the last ritz rarest of the rare and he gave me it on tape about 7 years ago

[Pete S]

I want to know what Pete Smith thinks .

You're probably the one who does...all I'll say is the surgeons would still be trying to remove the axe from the head of the person who took my record off while it was playing

[Guest sydney bridge]

You're probably the one who does...all I'll say is the surgeons would still be trying to remove the axe from the head of the person who took my record off while it was playing

i was taking axes to nighters ten years ago

[Ged Parker]

Great thread this, very entertaining.

Only from what I've read as I don't know the people involved personally I think the following:

Rob has a beef with James.

Rob deliberately set out to upstage James by proxy.

The DJ who played the track looks to have done so in good faith and was treated attrociously.

James should forgo any right to any DJ etiquete having removed a record whilst in play and whilst not certain of it being as he terms it a 'boot'.

If Rob owns the Master Tape (and presumably the Rights to the Track) he can issue it to whom ever he want's in whatever format he wants for what ever price he wants.

If he doesn't and has had a copy carved from an illicit tape it is a bootleg and James has a right to feel agreaved (though not IMO take the 45 off the decks).

Thing is James didn't know for sure when he removed the 45 and still doesn't know for sure now.

Saying that whether the recording is done from the master tape or a dodgy tape is irrelevant doesn't make it irrelevant.

The 'original' acetate James has was in all probability recorded from a master tape rather than directly from the studio feed and to me is no more valid than the master tape itself or indeed any recording subsequently made from that tape as long as it is made by the owner of the rights to the recording.

No one question the validity (rightly IMO) of a 100 club 45 recorded from the master tape by the owner of the rights and no one questions one being played out.

You asked for views James and those are mine.

[Guest James Trouble]

this all smacks of double standards on mr troubles part, last year someone started a thread on this site about some d.j. playing alternative versions of records that had been doctored on a computer, i seem to remember a male version of marie knight being one of them, anyway mr trouble got involved in the debate & basically said that he couldnt see a problem with it, as the dj only played them for a laugh, maybe rob only gave the other lad the disc to play for a laugh

If you can pull that thread up I might even agree with you, but it must be the other Mr Trouble you're getting me mixed up with?

Even so, doing a remix of a record is hardly a crime. Kenny Dope's remix of Peace Love, Not War is better than the original and should be played rather than the original IMO, but if someone on the bill has the original it would be rude to play it IMO, but others may not think that and I could see their point of view on that. But it ceratinly is not the same as giving out bootlegs of rare newies to a DJ who knows nothign about the tune and who is coming on before someone who has the original, is it?

[Trev Thomas]

You're probably the one who does...all I'll say is the surgeons would still be trying to remove the axe from the head of the person who took my record off while it was playing

well said pete....notice he only did it when he had someone with him...what a brave boy he is