You Have To Wonder Why

[Trev Thomas]

If you can pull that thread up I might even agree with you, but it must be the other Mr Trouble you're getting me mixed up with?

Even so, doing a remix of a record is hardly a crime. Kenny Dope's remix of Peace Love, Not War is better than the original and should be played rather than the original IMO, but if someone on the bill has the original it would be rude to play it IMO, but others may not think that and I could see their point of view on that. But it ceratinly is not the same as giving out bootlegs of rare newies to a DJ who knows nothign about the tune and who is coming on before someone who has the original, is it?

so...lets get this straight.....remixing a record at home on your computer & puting it on a acetate is not a crime. however, putting your unissued track on one is

[Guest]

What is the so called djs name who played the record then?,i wouldnt play someone elses record unless i knew it,maybe..........he should be outed aswell.

[Pete S]

well said pete....notice he only did it when he had someone with him...what a brave boy he is

Well I didn't actually mean James - but just the idea of someone else touching my records while they are playing is something that would upset me a great deal...it's not on

[Guest miff]

What is the so called djs name who played the record then?,i wouldnt play someone elses record unless i knew it,maybe..........he should be outed aswell.

I was thimking that as well

[Guest]

Well I didn't actually mean James - but just the idea of someone else touching my records while they are playing is something that would upset me a great deal...it's not on

Ye`but it wouldnt have been yours it would have been RTs or JTs

[Ged Parker]

What is the so called djs name who played the record then?,i wouldnt play someone elses record unless i knew it,maybe..........he should be outed aswell.

Why?

If someone with the pedigree of Rob asked me to play a track he'd recorded from the Master Tape, sure I'd preview it through the headphones first but if it sounded ok I'd probably play it especially if it was an early spot.

Not sure he deserves any more humiliation than he's already had

[Guest James Trouble]

Great thread this, very entertaining.

Only from what I've read as I don't know the people involved personally I think the following:

Rob has a beef with James.

Rob deliberately set out to upstage James by proxy.

The DJ who played the track looks to have done so in good faith and was treated attrociously.

James should forgo any right to any DJ etiquete having removed a record whilst in play and whilst not certain of it being as he terms it a 'boot'.

If Rob owns the Master Tape (and presumably the Rights to the Track) he can issue it to whom ever he want's in whatever format he wants for what ever price he wants.

If he doesn't and has had a copy carved from an illicit tape it is a bootleg and James has a right to feel agreaved (though not IMO take the 45 off the decks).

Thing is James didn't know for sure when he removed the 45 and still doesn't know for sure now.

Saying that whether the recording is done from the master tape or a dodgy tape is irrelevant doesn't make it irrelevant.

The 'original' acetate James has was in all probability recorded from a master tape rather than directly from the studio feed and to me is no more valid than the master tape itself or indeed any recording subsequently made from that tape as long as it is made by the owner of the rights to the recording.

No one question the validity (rightly IMO) of a 100 club 45 recorded from the master tape by the owner of the rights and no one questions one being played out.

You asked for views James and those are mine.

I agree with most of that. But Rob Thomas doesn't have the rights to it, at best he has the master tape. And going by the sound quality of the bootleg that he had given out I doubt that anyway. If Rob Thomas does have the master tape then there is of course some ground for him to stand on to be playing cuts of it in his set, but no ground to be giving it out to DJs who know nothing about the track and who are on before a DJ who has the original.

And if Rob Thomas does start playing the track now after I have started to make it popular, but he has not played it having had it for 10 years on tape, as he claims, then he makes himself look like just another stranded sheep copying other DJs plays.

With regard the removing of the bootleg while it was playing: Remember it was given to a DJ to play who knew nothing about it by someone who had travelled along way to cause grief. As I say, if Rob Thomas has the master tape, which I doubt, and he wants to play it in his set, then he can do that, but he only makes himself look a wally for doing it after I have started to make the tune popular. But if he doesn't have the master tapes, he has no ground to be playing it, any more than I'd have ground to be playing Mellosouls because I claim I had the master tapes 10 years ago and my grandmother was the drummer in the band.

Edited October 8, 2007 by James Trouble

[Guest James Trouble]

Why?

If someone with the pedigree of Rob asked me to play a track he'd recorded from the Master Tape, sure I'd preview it through the headphones first but if it sounded ok I'd probably play it especially if it was an early spot.

Not sure he deserves any more humiliation than he's already had

I agree. It wasn't his fault.

[Guest]

Why?

If someone with the pedigree of Rob asked me to play a track he'd recorded from the Master Tape, sure I'd preview it through the headphones first but if it sounded ok I'd probably play it especially if it was an early spot.

Not sure he deserves any more humiliation than he's already had

Any dj should have known the track after previewing it,not like its unkown is it?......not like my cover-ups

[Simsy]

If Rob Thomas does have the master tape then there is of course some ground for him to stand on to be playing cuts of it in his set, but no ground to be giving it out to DJs who know nothing about the track and who are on before a DJ who has the original.

Bit underhanded to give the carver to the dj before you just to f*** you up. If he does have the master though he could do that, as d'js do borrow/lend.

Smacks of wanting to curtail your efforts of breaking this track with the "who's he, I had this ten years ago" attitude.

$64m question is master tape ownership proof. Can he prove it and does he care to?

[Ged Parker]

I agree with most of that. But Rob Thomas doesn't have the rights to it, at best he has the master tape. And going by the sound quality of the bootleg that he had given out I doubt that anyway. If Rob Thomas does have the master tape then there is of course some ground for him to stand on to be playing cuts of it in his set, but no ground to be giving it out to DJs who know nothing about the track and who are on before a DJ who has the original.

And if Rob Thomas does start playing the track now after I have started to make it popular, but he has not played it having had it for 10 years on tape, as he claims, then he makes himself look like just another stranded sheep copying other DJs plays.

With regard the removing of the bootleg while it was playing: Remember it was given to a DJ to play who knew nothing about it by someone who had travelled along way to cause grief. As I say, if Rob Thomas has the master tape, which I doubt, and he wants to play it in his set, then he can do that, but he only makes himself look a wally for doing it after I have started to make the tune popular. But if he doesn't have the master tapes, he has no ground to be playing it, any more than I'd have ground to be playing Mellosouls because if I say I had the master tapes 10 years ago and my grandmother was the drummer in the band.

For me James that's the crux of the matter, if Rob doesn't have the rights then its a boot and what was a childish stunt becomes a little more sinister.

The DJ concerned took Rob at face value. I'm not sure he deserved embarrasing in that way.

If someone out there could legitimately lay their hands on the Master Tapes for the Mello Souls that would be different because that actually got a release. IMO

[Ged Parker]

Any dj should have known the track after previewing it,not like its unkown is it?......not like my cover-ups

Ken,

I've heard you cover-ups more time than I've heard this track and I've only heard them once. Well when I say once I don't mean all the way through obviously

[Ady Potts]

As a matter of interest, did Rob Thomas get the master tape, or access to the master tape off Ady ?

[Simon M]

I'd of done a ferguson , and sold/traded Willie K , and got another hot tune in , Its seems like years since I saw it on ya playlist james ?

Edited October 8, 2007 by Simon M

[Ste Henderson]

I think the main issue here is the fact that James took a record off halfway through another djs spot, personally IMO that is totally arrogant and if it happened to me there would be WW3, but i also think if there is an issue over a record sort it out between yourselves, why do it on a public forum.

Steve

[Corbett80]

why do it in a club?

[Guest James Trouble]

I'd of done a ferguson , and sold/traded Willie K , and got another hot tune in , Its seems like years since I saw it on ya playlist james ?

You should have been there Simon, plenty of 70s played. I gave the old Mighty Ryders, Rokk + New World a spin. Mick was playing things like Ice and Mellow Madness, you'd have been right at home

[Mark Bicknell]

For what it's worth here's my two bobs worth on this one, perhaps James you should have risen above this if there was the intention to stick the knife in or undermine you?

I know your passion and commitment gets the better of you and it's in your nature to take action if you think something is wrong or out of step with you and the way you conduct yourself as a DJ, not owning any one off's or studio discs myself the only example I can give is this; when DJ'ing if another DJ plays X,Y,Z etc. before I go on which I may have in the playbox then I simply play something else, I feel that there is more to this situation than meets the eye and perhaps as already suggested it's an issue that James and Rob need to work out between them rather than on an open forum? Perhaps Rob feels he deserves some credit or recignition for this track as does James? so perhaps it's more about personal satisfaction and credit than the actual act and situation it's self? Perhaps if Rob have had spoken to James first on the history of the track that Rob infact has had it for ten years then it would have been simple for James to perhaps give some credit to Rob when he plays it in the future? Instead we have this somewhat difficult situation which is I feel based more on who discovered it first?

From my own personal perspective I never play anything less than the real deal authentic original or sourced legit formats such as Kent Anniversary 45's for example, personally I would have not removed the record in question but would have questioned the reasons behind the action direcly to the person responsable there and then.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Simon M]

You should have been there Simon, plenty of 70s played. I gave the old Mighty Ryders, Rokk + New World a spin. Mick was playing things like Ice and Mellow Madness, you'd have been right at home

Bloody hell , that dont sound like a Northern night .. I thought the Mighty ryders was an acetate track ?

A question for Wrighty maybe?

[Guest James Trouble]

Bloody hell , that dont sound like a Northern night .. I thought the Mighty ryders was an acetate track ?

A question for Wrighty maybe?

"Let There Be Peace"? No, issued. Someone's not giving boots of that out as well are they?

Edited October 8, 2007 by James Trouble

[Simon M]

"Let There Be Peace"? No, issued. Someone's not giving boots of that out as well are they?

I dont seem to have it , but I saw this https://www.popsike.com/php/detaildatar.php?itemnr=4709789410

but we digress

[Guest James Trouble]

I dont seem to have it , but I saw this https://www.popsike.com/php/detaildatar.php?itemnr=4709789410

but we digress

You don't know it or you don't have it? It's one of those funk tunes, you know, like Elipsis Think we'd best PM...

Edited October 8, 2007 by James Trouble

[Jason S]

I dont seem to have it , but I saw this https://www.popsike.com/php/detaildatar.php?itemnr=4709789410

but we digress

That's the album (which did come out)

There's also two 45's off it, one of which is 'Let There Be Peace', the other of which is rubbish

[Simon M]

That's the album (which did come out)

There's also two 45's off it, one of which is 'Let There Be Peace', the other of which is rubbish

Thanks ..I must unpack all the LP's one day

[Jason S]

Thanks ..I must unpack all the LP's one day

Cracking version of Evil Vibrations by The Rebirth from a year or so ago

[Sunnysoul]

You're probably the one who does...all I'll say is the surgeons would still be trying to remove the axe from the head of the person who took my record off while it was playing

[Sunnysoul]

I dont seem to have it , but I saw this https://www.popsike.com/php/detaildatar.php?itemnr=4709789410

but we digress

I like a bit of digression

[Simon M]

Cracking version of Evil Vibrations by The Rebirth from a year or so ago

my mate was playing some nice Meters lp tracks the other day , also soulful Willie and the MM's

but thats for another thread I guess ..

Edited October 8, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest fryer]

if you touched my record that was playing id f**king chin you. Were you not upset about someone doing the same thing to you only a month or two back.

Edited October 8, 2007 by fryer

[Sunnysoul]

James, with the greatest respect , you are taking yourself - and what you think you are doing (being at the cutting edge of new discoveries on the soul scene) - far too seriously ...

All you needed to do was humour the previous DJ and have a little word in his ear at the end of his set .. and then gone on and played your acetate and announce over the microphone to the punters that the original acetate was now being played .

If you just laugh off what are ultimately trifling annoying little incidents like this and just get on with it then you'll go a long way on this scene but if you go off like you have and start doing things like removing other people's records from the decks, you will quickly be put in the same basket as a certain Mr Levine (rightly or wrongly).

[Pauldonnelly]

I dunno why you two guys can't get together outside a venue, share a fag and frank exchange of views then slugg the f**ker out like they used to when John Wayne was alive, or is that being rather petty, vidictive and chldish

Edited October 8, 2007 by rachel

[Guest rachel]

Just a quick reminder not to post unedited swear words as per site guidelines, posts above edited. Cheers

Edited October 8, 2007 by rachel

[Jumpinjoan]

For what it's worth here's my two bobs worth on this one, perhaps James you should have risen above this if there was the intention to stick the knife in or undermine you?

I know your passion and commitment gets the better of you and it's in your nature to take action if you think something is wrong or out of step with you and the way you conduct yourself as a DJ, not owning any one off's or studio discs myself the only example I can give is this; when DJ'ing if another DJ plays X,Y,Z etc. before I go on which I may have in the playbox then I simply play something else, I feel that there is more to this situation than meets the eye and perhaps as already suggested it's an issue that James and Rob need to work out between them rather than on an open forum? Perhaps Rob feels he deserves some credit or recignition for this track as does James? so perhaps it's more about personal satisfaction and credit than the actual act and situation it's self? Perhaps if Rob have had spoken to James first on the history of the track that Rob infact has had it for ten years then it would have been simple for James to perhaps give some credit to Rob when he plays it in the future? Instead we have this somewhat difficult situation which is I feel based more on who discovered it first?

From my own personal perspective I never play anything less than the real deal authentic original or sourced legit formats such as Kent Anniversary 45's for example, personally I would have not removed the record in question but would have questioned the reasons behind the action direcly to the person responsable there and then.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Not being funny... but the only ones deserving of any real credit in my book are the artists who recorded the record.

...or have I missed something?

[Guest James Trouble]

James, with the greatest respect , you are taking yourself - and what you think you are doing (being at the cutting edge of new discoveries on the soul scene) - far too seriously ...

All you needed to do was humour the previous DJ and have a little word in his ear at the end of his set .. and then gone on and played your acetate and announce over the microphone to the punters that the original acetate was now being played .

If you just laugh off what are ultimately trifling annoying little incidents like this and just get on with it then you'll go a long way on this scene but if you go off like you have and start doing things like removing other people's records from the decks, you will quickly be put in the same basket as a certain Mr Levine (rightly or wrongly).

You're right, and that is reason, as I have previously said, why I appologised to him straight after and said it wasn't his fault that he had been sucked into it by Rob Thomas.

The important thing is not the DJ who played it, or the record being taken off with the concent of the promoter. I think that is totally distracting from the important issue.

The reason I have posted this up is because I want people to be aware that Rob Thomas is giving out bootlegs of tracks to play to DJs who don't know the full story and be aware of the reason he is doing it. If you are happy to be playing bootlegs of tracks that other DJs are making popular maybe give Rob Thomas a ring

And Fryer (motherfunk) the reason that wouldn't happen at your club is because it is full of students who are only there during term time and just want a late drink at a decent club. They are not travelling half way accross the country to hear rare soul music. BTW, how's the unreleased Alvin Cash version I sent you going down up there?

[Trev Thomas]

James, with the greatest respect , you are taking yourself - and what you think you are doing (being at the cutting edge of new discoveries on the soul scene) - far too seriously ...

cutting edge ??????????????...he's only been on the scene for five minutes, and he's pissed more people off in those five minutes than other people have in 30 years

[Corbett80]

"Not being funny... but the only ones deserving of any real credit in my book are the artists who recorded the record."

totally

Edited October 8, 2007 by mulf

[Mark Bicknell]

Not being funny... but the only ones deserving of any real credit in my book are the artists who recorded the record.

...or have I missed something?

I totally agree with you Joan, I was simply trying to make some sense of this from the two guy's involved perspective rather than it being my own personal view regarding credit or kudos to others rather than the artists.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest fryer]

You're right, and that is reason, as I have previously said, why I appologised to him straight after and said it wasn't his fault that he had been sucked into it by Rob Thomas.

The important thing is not the DJ who played it, or the record being taken off with the concent of the promoter. I think that is totally distracting from the important issue.

The reason I have posted this up is because I want people to be aware that Rob Thomas is giving out bootlegs of tracks to play to DJs who don't know the full story and be aware of the reason he is doing it. If you are happy to be playing bootlegs of tracks that other DJs are making popular maybe give Rob Thomas a ring

And Fryer (motherfunk) the reason that wouldn't happen at your club is because it is full of students who are only there during term time and just want a late drink at a decent club. They are not travelling half way accross the country to hear rare soul music. BTW, how's the unreleased Alvin Cash version I sent you going down up there?

If motherfunk is too studenty for james, you might want to come to our new night starting saturday december 1st. The website will be up tomorrow, it's in a brand new venue with a proper dancefloor and sound system.

the linup for the first night is residents only:

Residents:

Ian Wright

Jason Stirland

Fryer

Its an open minded soul night playing northern/xover/funk/modern and no one will be throwing records around like a 4 year old. We will also be featuring proper grown up soul djs in the future.

Edited October 8, 2007 by fryer

[Guest Baz]

cutting edge ??????????????...he's only been on the scene for five minutes, and he's pissed more people off in those five minutes than other people have in 30 years

And he's also pushed more bounderies, and intent on keeping the scene fresh than most of the people been on the scene in the last 30 years!!

Its a case of the green eyed moster i think, young whipper snapper making a name for himself and all the old big boys who have lost it in 1979 are jealous of him

[Trev Thomas]

And he's also pushed more bounderies, and intent on keeping the scene fresh than most of the people been on the scene in the last 30 years!!

Its a case of the green eyed moster i think, young whipper snapper making a name for himself and all the old big boys who have lost it in 1979 are jealous of him

well, i never lost it in 79, didnt start going til 1980....by the way....whats a moster ?

[Guest James Trouble]

If motherfunk is too studenty for james, you might want to come to our new night starting saturday december 1st. The website will be up tomorrow, it's in a brand new venue with a proper dancefloor and sound system.

the linup for the first night is residents only:

Residents:

Ian Wright

Jason Stirland

Fryer

Its an open minded soul night playing northern/xover/funk/modern and no one will be throwing records around like a 4 year old. We will also be featuring proper grown up soul djs in the future.

It wasn't a record Fryer, it was a worthelss bad sounding bootleg vinyl carvers given to a DJ to play in an effort to wind me up. But it hasn't done, but you are. Thanks for the feedback pal. Ill be speaking to you later...

[Guest Baz]

well, i never lost it in 79, didnt start going til 1980....by the way....whats a moster ?

Monster!

I didn't actually mean 1979 it was a metaphore for the people who want to make it, by playing the same regurjetated playlists as every one else, or are still trying to make a name for them selfs based on there past 'name', hence a jealosy coming through because James is pushing him self in the right direction but only been on the scene '5 mins'

[Guest fryer]

Those pvc fake record things should be made into middles they sound so flat. use cds instead, they sound much better better. The top end on them is very harsh, not a good thing as northern is often toppy already

Edited October 8, 2007 by fryer

[Ady Croasdell]

As a matter of interest, did Rob Thomas get the master tape, or access to the master tape off Ady ?

No and it's owned by RCA so I wouldn't have thought he's done a deal with them.

[Ady Croasdell]

james dont really want to get involved in all this but i can clear one thing up for u rob has had the track along time i,m sure he played it at the last ritz rarest of the rare and he gave me it on tape about 7 years ago

Steve out of interest do you mean the Willie Kendrick or Cavaliers as I think we're talking about the latter here?

[Guest cenco]

Steve out of interest do you mean the Willie Kendrick or Cavaliers as I think we're talking about the latter here?

its the willie kendrick ady thats the one james is talking about in his first post Edited October 8, 2007 by cenco

[Guest Gavin Page]

Maybe at next Cleethorpes, instead of the DJ dance competition there should a DJ bootleg slinging contest

What a bloody great idea !!!!!

[Bazza]

if you touched my record that was playing id f**king chin you. Were you not upset about someone doing the same thing to you only a month or two back.

I must admit if this happened to me (not that I DJ anymore) I would go ballistic and thump the offender on the spot..I dont know James or Rob..and I understand how James felt but he did go to far..the chap probably played the tune on the recomendation of this Rob chap in good faith ,to embarress him like that is really not on

as for the boots v orignal.we know its been done to death on here

its ok to play some but not others ?

its ok to play a carver if you have the original locked up in a safe some where...?

its a very grey area and there is no real answer to it

Bazza

Edited October 8, 2007 by bazza

[Corbett80]

I'd say its been done deliberately in the hope of James doing exactly what he's done.....

[pikeys dog]

I'd say its been done deliberately in the hope of James doing exactly what he's done.....

What, bleating on about it on a forum instead of fronting the person there and then?