Biggest Price Drop?

[Guest]

remember when some copies of Betty Lloyd on BSC were found in the mid 90ts (Gilly?)...the price went way down......now its back up again.......i suppose its a case of "how many"

I got one off Mick Smiff on BSC at that time (1989) (50 quid?)...........played it to death at the time...........got bored with it then........I can't bear it now! It was a record from that time that was over played by everyone who had a copy? Got Bored with it then...bored with it now. Just heard it too many times!

. ............. It was the Pat and the Blenders of its time!

Edited September 27, 2010 by mossy

[Guest]

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Edited September 27, 2010 by mossy

[Platters 81]

i must have got the date wrong........mind you i cant remember my birthday...i neve bought Betty Lloyd i always found it too shrill.....bought Boss Four for £20....mind you i like vocal group sounds , when did the pile of Vince Apollos on Pentagon turn up?......i was pleased about that......kickin TOTW sound with great flip.......and the Little Johns on Martay.....another i was glad to get at a reasonable price......

[pow wow mik]

I wonder where they all are myself? One or two of the funk guys think it's funny that some people pay money for it, because they picked it up dirt cheap when that handfull surfaced. But the copies have now been soaked into serious collections, and the funk guys who got it cheap and sold it on for a quick buck can't get it back now and seem to delite in saying how silly it is that serious collectors want to get hold of a copy.

Didn't the last copy of Manship's auction go for over £800?

Cracking tune, and if I ever get rid of it Mik you'll be the first I'll let know...

I've got it cheers mate, but at £300 would have a couple more for people i know who want it. Demand far exceeds supply on this I thought, but maybe demand isn't that high, \i dont know. it certainly hasn't 'turned up' yet, all the copies that surfaced were from collections no?

[pow wow mik]

"I heard that no-one 'panic sold' it...it was more an elaborate wind up"

I dont know what you are suggesting here jason, my copy of wendel was going to james-e but his harddrivers was to battered so i kept it in my imaginery box. Its an average record and always was 100 quid at best. There is plenty copies around if you look instead of dropping $1000 on ebay and running round trying to get everyone to bid on copies to justify your purchare at 10x what its worth on a good day. Itll soon be back down at $100 after this "hysterical scambling catchup fad" has passed and people see sense. for further reading on this i suggest "The Emperor's New Clothes" By Hans Christian Andersen. The thing to do is buy record you like rather than records that have just gone big then you might end up with a collection you like rather than a collection you think other people will be inpressed by.

I first heard it in a soundfile from Michael Robinson, who never said how rare or what price it was. I thought it was great then, I think it's great now- it's got a definite extra x-factor over loads of records of it's type and sounds great played out loud. I was only gutted to hear of it's price and the Sam debacle, cos i wanted it. But then It fits right in with what i play, I didn't buy it to catch up with anyone, as demand on the Northern scene means nothing to me, i bought it to play with other good rhythm & soul at mod do's, where it's been appreciated.

[Guest]

i must have got the date wrong........mind you i cant remember my birthday...i neve bought Betty Lloyd i always found it too shrill.....bought Boss Four for £20....mind you i like vocal group sounds , when did the pile of Vince Apollos on Pentagon turn up?......i was pleased about that......kickin TOTW sound with great flip.......and the Little Johns on Martay.....another i was glad to get at a reasonable price......

Not good with dates either, I got a Vince Appollo around the same time as the Betty Loyds turned up, might have been about 1991 or somthing ? That has bouncd back in price a bit I noticed.

[Steve G]

I've never sold that. Still got my copy. Are you after one? Make me a sensible offer.

"Not on your Nelly" I think is the operative expression here Phil - word on the street is you sold one for "big money" - is this wrong then?

[Guest fryer]

Mik the piss taking was aimed at James Trouble not you, i credit you with having your own taste, as for james well...

[Guest]

Hey Boba I don't quite get the logic of that last post. Quantity on titles frequently turn up if you do a little digging or are lucky. The Danny Moore musta sold a few on release and others were stuck in a basement somewhere. Im not sure how many Dave and I ended up with. We had I'd estimate about 150 within a month. Im sure the pressing run went to more than that so lots of unaccounted for copies.

Danny Moore was pretty rare over here and let me say that Dave told me that we were NOT the first to get to this guy. A USA "Northern" dealer had bought a few copies and sold them for big bucks. Now it may be that the guy with the 45s only had a couple when the other dealer got to him and may be that the dealer didn't think to ask if he had more elsewhere. But whatever, a few guys over here then paid a lot of money for this 45 but the source was the same.

As Steve G said if you locate someone involved there's a good chance of turning up copies. I stumbled upon the Winfield Parker on P&L too. Winfield had left 5 copies in a shop in Baltimore [Roadhouse Oldies I think] and his phone number with the owner in case he sold them. It was at the time a rare modern soul 45 but Winfield had hundreds.

In reply to Bearsy's question I think a lot of these 45s we pay hundreds for were around in large quantities but they disappear into collections and price does rise again. If you ask John Manship Im sure he had hundreds of Frank Dells he got from a guy in Charlotte [according to what the guy told us]. Dave Withers must have had about 150 Betty Lloyds at one time. I picked up 70 copies of that Freddie Empire and sold at £10 at the end to get rid but that's probably back up there again.

I think Boba you can't really expect some of these 45s to be in the "shops" now but Im sure they were back in the 70's before guys like Anderson and Koppell started hoovering them up. I suppose "rare" doesn't actually mean in most cases only a handful pressed but difficult to locate.

ROD

Excellent info Rod, its great to read the background on these record finds. Anybody know anything about E.J. Chandler - I Can't Stand To Lose You . Was talked about being £400 when first played at Wigan, but dropped to £3 after a few months. The vinyl looks 70's to me, or is it a 70's record that sounds 60's?

[NEV]

hi,just wondering the other day about record prices.Usually the debate is around 45's going up and being overpriced.

But what about the sounds from way back, that were a small fortune back then,but are available now "cheaply"??.

Sounds that were maybe limited to a few copies for a while ,then over the years are easier to obtain?

I'll START IT OFF WITH DANNY MOORE "SOMEBODY NEW",championed by Rob Marriot among others. A 1000 (?) quid sound now around for 75 ish?.

What's the biggest drop in price?

NORTHERN ROCK SHARES!

SOLD MINE FOR £7.50 ,TEN YRS BACK

[Phild]

"Not on your Nelly" I think is the operative expression here Phil - word on the street is you sold one for "big money" - is this wrong then?

Yep. I didn't sell the record. I believe several people did pay big money for it. but not off me.

There were quite a few people desperate to buy the record at the time, as uit was the "next big thing". It was only when IL's involvement in it started being punted around that folks didn't want it.

I reckon if there had never been a mention of Levine's involvement and a load of copies hadn't turned up it would be a very different story.

[Dave Abbott]

Royal Esquires springs to mind.

Not 100% on this but were there only 2 known copies when Richard Searling & Gary Rushbrook were playing it covered as The Embers?

Can't give e'm away now though.

Good topic Kev

i will alawys associate the Royal Esquires with Mick Smith - he was playing it before it was found... and paid for it too

[Guest PeteLowrie]

Hi Just yo set a few facts right yes I did pay £1000 for Danny Moore but sold iot for £900 but on a trip to Detroit bought 50 mint copies

So Phil don't think you had the biggest Laugh!!

Pete Lowrie

[Harry Crosby]

Think i remember EJ CHANDLER turning up in quantities, whilst it was still quite a big record

[Guest Brett F]

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Edited September 24, 2010 by Brett F

[Mrtag]

so does anybody know who found the boxes of danny moore and where ? would be great to know

Rumour had it it was Chris Ashibende!! not sure of spelling on surname!! :lol:

[Guest JIM BARRY]

Rumour had it it was Chris Ashibende!! not sure of spelling on surname!! :lol:

MR ASHIBENDE IS CALLED TIM

[Dean]

Hi Just yo set a few facts right yes I did pay £1000 for Danny Moore but sold iot for £900 but on a trip to Detroit bought 50 mint copies

So Phil don't think you had the biggest Laugh!!

Pete Lowrie

Wow, timewarp stuff. Previous post 22 Sept 2007, 3 years drift by . . . . . . . twilight zone!!

[Guest JIM BARRY]

Hi Just yo set a few facts right yes I did pay £1000 for Danny Moore but sold iot for £900 but on a trip to Detroit bought 50 mint copies

So Phil don't think you had the biggest Laugh!!

Pete Lowrie

yes , but you stopped laughing when you were rumbled for passing those johnny watsons on valise as originals. :lol:

[Phild]

Hi Just yo set a few facts right yes I did pay £1000 for Danny Moore but sold iot for £900 but on a trip to Detroit bought 50 mint copies

So Phil don't think you had the biggest Laugh!!

Pete Lowrie

I didn't laugh at all Pete.

Just made £999 profit.

Come to think of it I did laugh at the time.

But not for long cos I spent the lot on other records that mostly decreased in value

[Anoraks Corner]

Rumour had it it was Chris Ashibende!! not sure of spelling on surname!!

That rumour is incorrect.

Barry James found them...bought a copy or two from the contact...offered to pay handsomely for further copies...bloke gets back in touch with an unopened box of x200 or so!

[Modernsoulsucks]

That rumour is incorrect.

Barry James found them...bought a copy or two from the contact...offered to pay handsomely for further copies...bloke gets back in touch with an unopened box of x200 or so!

If you look at post #60 you will see the story. As far as I know a US dealer did get there first and he knew Tim. Maybe Greg T. I know nowt about PhilD find.

Dave found the copies by looking up Massingdale [odd name] in phone book and getting hold of a relative. Cousin I think. Did the same once with John Merlino and got his son.

ROD

[De-to]

a shed load of this on e-bore a couple of years ago,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssc-ZwfJSfM&feature=related

then this one on e-bore,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyonnAg3eWE

and now in 2010 a shed load on e-bore,..., ,

[John A]

I guess what I was trying to say is that 4-figure record should be extremely rare, something that doesn't turn up in real collections except very infrequently. There are some records that really never ever turn up in collections (I mean the collections of people who bought records in the 60s) but which aren't worth anything because stock is around. If stock wasn't around, those would be true 4-figure rarities to me. I was just saying that I think the danny moore did turn up in collections independent of stock being found. I think it's what NetSpeaky said -- that ebay has made it much clearer which records are "truly" rare or not. Of course it's also supply and demand, though, which sort of makes my point moot (for example, I think the Cashmeres on Hem has had stock around in the past and got some radio play in DC, but still remains a 4-figure record due to northern demand).

If any body wants my Cashmeres for four figures, please,don't be shy in getting in touch

[Mrtag]

MR ASHIBENDE IS CALLED TIM

[/quote

]

Sorry Jim !! I meant Tim ! Mind On Other Things Me Thinks!!

[Mrtag]

That rumour is incorrect.

Barry James found them...bought a copy or two from the contact...offered to pay handsomely for further copies...bloke gets back in touch with an unopened box of x200 or so!

Didn't realise these where down to Barry!!

[Dave Thorley]

Frederick Hymes - Time aint gonna do me no favour (Fab Vegas)

Couldnt sell this for £75, see it on lists regularly for £150 ended up trading mine.

This when found was around the £1000 mark wasnt it?

Daz

The particular problem with this record, has always been the discussion about it originality

I'll give anyone £100 for one if they can't sell it:D

Edited November 4, 2010 by Dave Thorley

[Modernsoulsucks]

Mr. Tag,

Dave W. used to stay at Barry's when in Detroit. That's about as far as his involvement goes.

Must have posted this tale a few times now relating how we tracked it down [very luckily] via surname.

Now you can believe Flynny's tale, who as far as I know wasn't there, or you can believe me who suddenly ended up with loads of original copies and probably sold them to people on here at the time for around £70. Sure Mr. Cunliffe or "Grumpy fella" remember.

ROD

[Ernie Andrews]

The particular problem with this record, has always been the discussion about it originality

I'll give anyone £100 for one if they can't sell it:D

Ive done abit of digging on this record (Frederick Hymes) in the past. Thier are questions of aucthenticity and has been noted on other threads. I wish I had an old email address of mine because then I would be able to produce the evidence.

In a nutshell I asked a dealer in the US who I had seen selling copies if he had one left- he said yes. I asked him a couple of questions about it (Knowing I had Soul sams original copy in my hand that he had paid £800 for off John Manship years earlier). When I queried the auhetnticy of the record I got a very sharp response that indicated that the copies he was selling had been pressed up recently at that time.. So Then I said to him - Do you not think its wrong passing these off as original presses or something like that!

This was his answer " WIse up Steve - This is business" (but no denial)

This statement confirmed to me that they were infact represses as he said he knew the label owner very well.

Read into it what you will but to me the orig is heavy vinyl and the print definition is dark and clear. If you look through an eyeglass at the represses the print is much lighter and looks like it has been photocopied - The vinyl when you hold to alight you can see through. You cant see through the original.

ATb Steve

[Anoraks Corner]

Dave W. used to stay at Barry's when in Detroit. That's about as far as his involvement goes.

Barry told me about the find back in the CSC days...I was merely going by what he told me...apologies if it was all blarny!

Did he drive the getaway car with the stock in the trunk?!

[Iancsloft]

Mr. Tag,

Dave W. used to stay at Barry's when in Detroit. That's about as far as his involvement goes.

Must have posted this tale a few times now relating how we tracked it down [very luckily] via surname.

Now you can believe Flynny's tale, who as far as I know wasn't there, or you can believe me who suddenly ended up with loads of original copies and probably sold them to people on here at the time for around £70. Sure Mr. Cunliffe or "Grumpy fella" remember.

ROD

===================================================================================================

Remember it well Rod, Dave turning up al those D Moores along with yourself turning up many other awesome 45,s in smaller quantities

Remember you playin a certain 45 you had brought back from the states and askin me if i knew it.. Richard Searling c/up Maurice McCallester ie Mr Soul

also you brought back the first copy of THE HURTING IS OVER 0N Mars la tour which you sold to Butch god how i wanted that 45 at the time gggrrrrr

Poets wrapped around your finger...... quite a few copies of I d like to get near you on --on uptite , blimey Rod you n Dave should have been millionairs by now!!!!

[Mrtag]

===================================================================================================

Remember it well Rod, Dave turning up al those D Moores along with yourself turning up many other awesome 45,s in smaller quantities

Remember you playin a certain 45 you had brought back from the states and askin me if i knew it.. Richard Searling c/up Maurice McCallester ie Mr Soul

also you brought back the first copy of THE HURTING IS OVER 0N Mars la tour which you sold to Butch god how i wanted that 45 at the time gggrrrrr

Poets wrapped around your finger...... quite a few copies of I d like to get near you on --on uptite , blimey Rod you n Dave should have been millionairs by now!!!!

I guess this must Be Mr Shard?? If Me Dad Ian Says It's Right Then It's Right !! Atb John.

[Mrtag]

Mr. Tag,

Dave W. used to stay at Barry's when in Detroit. That's about as far as his involvement goes.

Must have posted this tale a few times now relating how we tracked it down [very luckily] via surname.

Now you can believe Flynny's tale, who as far as I know wasn't there, or you can believe me who suddenly ended up with loads of original copies and probably sold them to people on here at the time for around £70. Sure Mr. Cunliffe or "Grumpy fella" remember.

ROD

Sorry Rod Replied on Ian's Post Atb John.

[Kjw]

I remember Rosey Jones - Have Love Will Travel fetching around £30 in the mid-70's at Cleethorpes All-Nighters which was a fair amount of money then - now you would struggle to give it away.

[KevH]

I remember Rosey Jones - Have Love Will Travel fetching around £30 in the mid-70's at Cleethorpes All-Nighters which was a fair amount of money then - now you would struggle to give it away.

"Spanish Boy" - Rubies.Think this was a reasonable price at one time.Pick em up at 5-10 quid a pop now.

[Modernsoulsucks]

I remember Rosey Jones - Have Love Will Travel fetching around £30 in the mid-70's at Cleethorpes All-Nighters which was a fair amount of money then - now you would struggle to give it away.

Saw 1000's of them at John Lamont's warehouse in '79.

ROD

[Steve G]

Ive done abit of digging on this record (Frederick Hymes) in the past. Thier are questions of aucthenticity and has been noted on other threads. I wish I had an old email address of mine because then I would be able to produce the evidence.

In a nutshell I asked a dealer in the US who I had seen selling copies if he had one left- he said yes. I asked him a couple of questions about it (Knowing I had Soul sams original copy in my hand that he had paid £800 for off John Manship years earlier). When I queried the auhetnticy of the record I got a very sharp response that indicated that the copies he was selling had been pressed up recently at that time.. So Then I said to him - Do you not think its wrong passing these off as original presses or something like that!

This was his answer " WIse up Steve - This is business" (but no denial)

This statement confirmed to me that they were infact represses as he said he knew the label owner very well.

Read into it what you will but to me the orig is heavy vinyl and the print definition is dark and clear. If you look through an eyeglass at the represses the print is much lighter and looks like it has been photocopied - The vinyl when you hold to alight you can see through. You cant see through the original.

ATb Steve

Hurrah! At blomin last. Someone else that has the same view as me on these FHs. I went into detail on this before but was told "No no, the bloke selling them swears they are original" etc. I saw a repro and an original at Cleethorpes a few years back - very different. Thanks for posting this Steve.

[Mrtag]

Hurrah! At blomin last. Someone else that has the same view as me on these FHs. I went into detail on this before but was told "No no, the bloke selling them swears they are original" etc. I saw a repro and an original at Cleethorpes a few years back - very different. Thanks for posting this Steve.

How Many Other Records That Suddenly Turn Up Do You Think This Has Happened To???