Overkill A Problem ?

[Guest Soultown andy]

Far from it baz the beauty of 3 room niters is there is always somethin different to listen to,we sort the dj times at middleton so that no 2 rooms have the same tempo,as in if sams playin mainly 70s downstairs backbeat will spin mainly upbeat 60s and carl and maria would have a dj spinnig rare or modern or crossover not rocket science but it works.

[Bazza]

Hi Bazza

Interesting thread this one, look what happened at last couple of Pilsley nights, one when I played Bernard Williams "Needless To Say" for Kev (not a rear tunes - but cleared the floor) then last month again played something different like William Bell and Grover Mitchell (again not rear stuff) and some people called it Banarama music, but I feel that you do need to mix it up and not to play the same old same old because just because a few people may complain on here does not mean they speak for everyone.

(Hope your not getting bored with us)

Barry Cooper

Hi Barry,nope ..there are only a couple of do's that I never miss...on a saturday..and Pilsley is one of em annesley the other ....because you do mix it a bit..it stays interesting..quite a few have faded away ..but not you two...for good reason...many of the others we go to just because its a bit better than sitting in a pub....keep up the good work......cya next weekend

Bazza

[Cunnie]

Not so daft Joe.... sounds very familiar....

Does don't it Mark

Only a minor point with Joe's original post.

Barnsley, Chesterfield & Doncaster are not city's.

[Guest BBB]

Hi Barry,nope ..there are only a couple of do's that I never miss...on a saturday..and Pilsley is one of em annesley the other ....because you do mix it a bit..it stays interesting..quite a few have faded away ..but not you two...for good reason...many of the others we go to just because its a bit better than sitting in a pub....keep up the good work......cya next weekend

Bazza

Does this mean I have to play some R&B ??

C u mate

Barry

[mrs soul]

The way I see it, years ago this scene was underground, if you said you where into ns, nobody really new what you meant, now its very commercial, so that opens many doors for people of all ages and backgrounds, music tastes etc, to go to venues, mostly oldies venues, and there are too many of them, thats where I see the overkill, so some promoters will play safe to make ends meet,and stick to oldies, we all bang on about wanting underplayed stuff , rare ect, so why arnt we supporting these venues, because I think we are in the minority, harsh I know, I think, IMHO, that 60% like oldies and the other40% like other stuff, and thats why they are not filling the venue up!I find it difficult to get to the places i want to get to, sometimes to far, sometimes, just to tired ect, and tend to stick to the ones that I know we will enjoy, music wise, a few years ago, we ran a venue for rarer stuff and underplayed, and could not get the punters in, yes, its the same old story, so where do we go from here!

[Bazza]

Does this mean I have to play some R&B ??

C u mate

Barry

Oh yes

Bazza

[Mark Bicknell]

Oh Dear Mark......who do you mean....so have you got the answer.....not like you to have a bit of an attitude

Bazza

Sorry you have read this the wrong way or I was not that clear with my comment and point, I meant that with all the clashing, similar venues, similar music on offer that clearly something is wrong and nobody seems and it would appear that no one has the answer or solution, and for your information I don't have an attitude regarding this more an opinion like you and everyone else, perhaps we should do a little more about the problems i.e. contribute where we can rather than constantly talking about it, no offence taken or meant Bazza ok.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Dave]

This is an interesting thread on a subject that needs addressing IMHO, but it's a thread full of red herrings:

I read Micks comments on the Union thread with interest and I agree completely with what he has said. Now some people might think this ironic as I am a co promoter of a soul night which is on the same night as the Union and is only 14 miles away.

When we started out in July 06 the only monthly night on "locally" that we knew about was Awsworth and we felt that they we far enough away from us and we wouldn't cause them any problems as it was a well estabished night.

The Brit was running bi-monthly at this stage but having been ourselves with knew the emphasis was on "oldies"

So we chose our night carefully to avoid clashes as much as possible and set out to provide what we thought was something different in the Mansfield area ie what we feel are underplayed soul records. We've made a reasonable succes of it so far but thats probably down to luck more than judgement.

Anyway without getting bogged down with detail the point I'm trying to make is that we didnt set out to rival anyone or to take over anyones mantle.

Finally I'd just like to add that I hope the Union club carries on providing a great soul night and if the Attic wasnt on all 4 of us would definately be there.

I've read the above post a couple of times and maybe I've not fully understood it, but I just can't help coming up with a few questions:

I've been to some of Mick's nights over the last few years and I've always considered the music policy fairly progressive... what do you mean by "emphasis on oldies?

Are you saying that you were "avoiding clashing" with Mick's nights as they were bi-monthly, so you only clashed on alternate months?

If you have such a high opinion of the Union and "all 4 of you would definitely be" there if not for your own do, why did you not arrange yours on a different night so that you were able to go?

you can have 2 venues in the same town,it depends on music played at each club.

If one is out and out oldies and the other "modern", the crowd will sort itself!!!.Same if one venue is RNB, and the other is upfront,progressive rare sounds.

So music policy matters imo.Why bother billing yourself as anything but NORTHERN then??.The people paying to come in need to know.Yes its all under the same umbrella,but with differences.

As for overkill......

1.not starting nites too near other venues.-are we proposing some kind of exclusion zone around venues?? Exclusive rights to some? And who are these people who are gonna get exclusive rights?

Who and how we going to decide that?.Length of time on the scene,who you know,what records you got?

This another red-herring. Just because people like one "sub-genre" of the scene, it doesn't preclude them from enjoying another one, but if two events are on the same night any potential customer for both has to decide on one only.

I don't think playlists comes into the arguement in my opinion, or should I say they are irrelevant.

At the end of the day it's all comes under the Northern Soul umbrella and putting a venue on in the same town/city as an established venue, whatever the policy, on the same night is pretty thoughless IMHO. Like I also said it often makes you wonder what the scene is coming to and where it's going!

I've said it for a long time there are far too many venues in close proximity all over the country and not enough soulies to go round.

Very true.

Sorry state of affairs all this I reckon, the so called bubble has certainly burst big time, the current scene on the whole is a shadow of what it once was, more venues than you can shake a stick at and very few good ones, this constant barrage of we play what the punters and the dance floor wants is a huge kop out and an easy route to constantly flog to death, far too many people who think they know better and judging by this thread they clearly don't,

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Well said. That's what I mean about red herrings.

Overkill is a major problem in some areas even without clashing and the east midlands and east anglia suffer the worst IMO. My nearest city is Peterborough, where there have been three regular soul clubs for a number of years... 12 or so events per year = most people happy. In the last 12 months three new events have started. One genuinely offers something different and attracts its own clientele, but the other two are just a re-hash of the existing local scene and are diminishing that scene because, although the nights seldom clash, many people do not want to go to a soul night virtually every week in the same town, therefore customers are spread more thinly... it's inevitable.

The picture is very similar in Northants. Those are just the places I know... seems it's happening almost everywhere if you take into account the post about Sheffield. (And it's a sad day when the Ponds Forge Lads hang up there boots IMO.. one of the best soul nights of all!)

[Bazza]

Sorry you have read this the wrong way or I was not that clear with my comment and point, I meant that with all the clashing, similar venues, similar music on offer that clearly something is wrong and nobody seems and it would appear that no one has the answer or solution, and for your information I don't have an attitude regarding this more an opinion like you and everyone else, perhaps we should do a little more about the problems i.e. contribute where we can rather than constantly talking about it, no offence taken or meant Bazza ok.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Same here Mark...but I think that talking about it on here does help....a little ....there are many promoters and DJ's on here as you know surely they take note of some of the comments..and maybe act on them

Bazza

[Mark Bicknell]

Same here Mark...but I think that talking about it on here does help....a little ....there are many promoters and DJ's on here as you know surely they take note of some of the comments..and maybe act on them

Bazza

Sure Bazza debate and talking about it should help, yet sometimes we seem to be going round in circles and in the cold light of day nothing seems to change or improve the negative aspects of how things currently are on the scene in general. I think it's a case of put in what you can, contribute where you can, attend and support the venues which 'float your boat' and have a good time.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Steve L]

I've read the above post a couple of times and maybe I've not fully understood it, but I just can't help coming up with a few questions:

I've been to some of Mick's nights over the last few years and I've always considered the music policy fairly progressive... what do you mean by "emphasis on oldies?

Are you saying that you were "avoiding clashing" with Mick's nights as they were bi-monthly, so you only clashed on alternate months?

If you have such a high opinion of the Union and "all 4 of you would definitely be" there if not for your own do, why did you not arrange yours on a different night so that you were able to go?

OK nice simple answer - Mick H was not running a club in Nottingham with a rare soul policy when we started the attic. The Brit was on bi monthly and were playing oldies.

When things changed and Mick went monthly with a change of policy BACK TO A RARE one and I think I can remember his words at the time something like " we are going back to the old union policy" ( we were up and running by this time ), what do you think we should have done? Packed in at the Attic??

I hope this clears things up as I cant explain it in simpler terms and all I wanted to do was make people aware that we DID NOT START THE ATTIC UP TO COMPETE WITH THE UNION!!!!!

My last words on the matter as I'm not interested in getting into an argument over this

Edited September 4, 2007 by Steve L

[KevH]

This is an interesting thread on a subject that needs addressing IMHO, but it's a thread full of red herrings:

I've read the above post a couple of times and maybe I've not fully understood it, but I just can't help coming up with a few questions:

I've been to some of Mick's nights over the last few years and I've always considered the music policy fairly progressive... what do you mean by "emphasis on oldies?

Are you saying that you were "avoiding clashing" with Mick's nights as they were bi-monthly, so you only clashed on alternate months?

If you have such a high opinion of the Union and "that you were able to go?

all 4 of you would definitely be" there if not for your own do, why did you not arrange yours on a different night so

This another red-herring. Just because people like one "sub-genre" of the scene, it doesn't preclude them from enjoying another one, but if two events are on the same night any potential customer for both has to decide on one only.

Very true.

Well said. That's what I mean about red herrings.

Overkill is a major problem in some areas even without clashing and the east midlands and east anglia suffer the worst IMO. My nearest city is Peterborough, where there have been three regular soul clubs for a number of years... 12 or so events per year = most people happy. In the last 12 months three new events have started. One genuinely offers something different and attracts its own clientele, but the other two are just a re-hash of the existing local scene and are diminishing that scene because, although the nights seldom clash, many people do not want to go to a soul night virtually every week in the same town, therefore customers are spread more thinly... it's inevitable.

The picture is very similar in Northants. Those are just the places I know... seems it's happening almost everywhere if you take into account the post about Sheffield. (And it's a sad day when the Ponds Forge Lads hang up there boots IMO.. one of the best soul nights of all!)

SOME RED HERRINGS TO GO WITH MY HOVIS THEN....

OK...first point....The Brit was not run by MickH at the time we started and was not as progressive as with Mick at the helm.Union was bi-monthly.

point2- we said we weren't going to clash with local nites ie : Bentinck,Annesley,Pilsley,Forest Town.We thought the Union/Brit was far enough away,we'd never attract the same crowd cos of rareity,AND WE'D STILL BE ABLE TO GO EVERY OTHER MONTH.

Ask Mick why it changed to monthly.

point 3- are you saying we don't have a high opinion of the Union and therefore Mick H?.YOU DON'T KNOW ME AT ALL.OURS WAS ON A DIFFERENT NITE.15 MILES AWAY.

POINT 4- is there no difference then with our playlists and the Union?.

Sub genre's,,,yeah wer'e doing exactly the same....white sliced bread all round i think.........

btw..where were you in the 70's when the Brit was up and running.

if you don't understand any of that,pm me.

Edited September 4, 2007 by KevH

[KevH]

OK nice simple answer - Mick H was not running a club in Nottingham with a rare soul policy when we started the attic. The Brit was on bi monthly and were playing oldies.

When things changed and Mick went monthly with a change of policy BACK TO A RARE one and I think I can remember his words at the time something like " we are goping back to the old union policy" ( we were up and running by this time ), what do you think we should have done? Packed in at the Attic??

I hope this clears things up as I cant explain it in simpler terms and all I wanted to do was make people aware that we DID NOT START THE ATTIC UP TO COMPETE WITH THE UNION!!!!!

My last words on the matter as I'm not interested in getting into an argument over

don't worry Steve ..i am.....lets shut down

Edited September 4, 2007 by KevH

[Guest Phil Richards]

Sure Bazza debate and talking about it should help, yet sometimes we seem to be going round in circles and in the cold light of day nothing seems to change or improve the negative aspects of how things currently are on the scene in general. I think it's a case of put in what you can, contribute where you can, attend and support the venues which 'float your boat' and have a good time.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

We have run 2 venues round wolverhampton for rarer and underplayed sounds we had 10 turn up,

put some top dj's on as well John Weston,Simon Hunt,John Pugh ect,ect so where was all the people then ?

[Mark Bicknell]

OK nice simple answer - Mick H was not running a club in Nottingham with a rare soul policy when we started the attic. The Brit was on bi monthly and were playing oldies.

When things changed and Mick went monthly with a change of policy BACK TO A RARE one and I think I can remember his words at the time something like " we are going back to the old union policy" ( we were up and running by this time ), what do you think we should have done? Packed in at the Attic??

I hope this clears things up as I cant explain it in simpler terms and all I wanted to do was make people aware that we DID NOT START THE ATTIC UP TO COMPETE WITH THE UNION!!!!!

My last words on the matter as I'm not interested in getting into an argument over this

You can't be tht upfront at 'The Attic' as you have had me on twice....lol I'll get me coat!

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest dundeedavie]

I think it's a case of put in what you can, contribute where you can, attend and support the venues which 'float your boat' and have a good time.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

i'll openly admit to rarely agreeing with anything you say mark but this rings true for me ..... SUPPORT THE VENUES THAT FLOAT YOUR BOAT .

it's a ruthless business promoting , if you don't offer what the public want you will close , regardless of reputations

[KevH]

This is an interesting thread on a subject that needs addressing IMHO, but it's a thread full of red herrings:

I've read the above post a couple of times and maybe I've not fully understood it, but I just can't help coming up with a few questions:

I've been to some of Mick's nights over the last few years and I've always considered the music policy fairly progressive... what do you mean by "emphasis on oldies?

Are you saying that you were "avoiding clashing" with Mick's nights as they were bi-monthly, so you only clashed on alternate months?

If you have such a high opinion of the Union and "all 4 of you would definitely be" there if not for your own do, why did you not arrange yours on a different night so that you were able to go?

This another red-herring. Just because people like one "sub-genre" of the scene, it doesn't preclude them from enjoying another one, but if two events are on the same night any potential customer for both has to decide on one only.

Very true.

Well said. That's what I mean about red herrings.

Overkill is a major problem in some areas even without clashing and the east midlands and east anglia suffer the worst IMO. My nearest city is Peterborough, where there have been three regular soul clubs for a number of years... 12 or so events per year = most people happy. In the last 12 months three new events have started. One genuinely offers something different and attracts its own clientele, but the other two are just a re-hash of the existing local scene and are diminishing that scene because, although the nights seldom clash, many people do not want to go to a soul night virtually every week in the same town, therefore customers are spread more thinly... it's inevitable.

The picture is very similar in Northants. Those are just the places I know... seems it's happening almost everywhere if you take into account the post about Sheffield. (And it's a sad day when the Ponds Forge Lads hang up there boots IMO.. one of the best soul nights of all!)

[Mark Bicknell]

We have run 2 venues round wolverhampton for rarer and underplayed sounds we had 10 turn up,

put some top dj's on as well John Weston,Simon Hunt,John Pugh ect,ect so where was all the people then ?

Certainly makes you think and question things Phil, funny but the rare end of the collecting market seems to be at a premium right now when you see what's selling on the auctions and what set sale stuff is selling on a regular basis, it's amost like there are two totally seperate sub scenes going on here? I thought it was all one of the same?, it's a shame as there is so much great music and records to source from, rare through to the not so rare yet here we are trying to defend what some of us are about.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[KevH]

just read post again Dave.Mark mentions playing to the dancefloor to keep the punters happy, in you original post,you said "another red herring" to go along with the others aimed at us.Are you saying we play to the dancefloor to impress? have you been near our venue? Your'e condemning us from afar,,,

one of the reasons the scene is shagged... iv'e kept this in good humour till now,

[Bazza]

We have run 2 venues round wolverhampton for rarer and underplayed sounds we had 10 turn up,

put some top dj's on as well John Weston,Simon Hunt,John Pugh ect,ect so where was all the people then ?

Very Sad...I think it would be very difficult to promote such a night...you have got to be in the right area ,the only one I am aware of that manages to do this is the Attic Mansfield the reasons I think are this

high population of soulies Mansfield Sheffield Nottm

many many Venues in this area...but most playing the same old stuff,so alot of Soulies where already looking for some thing a little bit Different and The Attic popped up at just the right time

Bazza

Just edited it ...first bit was gobbldegook

Edited September 4, 2007 by bazza

[Guest Phil Richards]

Certainly makes you think and question things Phil, funny but the rare end of the collecting market seems to be at a premium right now when you see what's selling on the auctions and what set sale stuff is selling on a regular basis, it's amost like there are two totally seperate sub scenes going on here? I thought it was all one of the same?, it's a shame as there is so much great music and records to source from, rare through to the not so rare yet here we are trying to defend what some of us are about.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Yes it makes you think!!!! but i am lucky in that i get to play at a nighter and a soul night so i can play 2

different sets but even at the nighter you have to keep a eye on the dance floor to see how much you

can get away with.

[Dave]

OK nice simple answer - Mick H was not running a club in Nottingham with a rare soul policy when we started the attic. The Brit was on bi monthly and were playing oldies.

When things changed and Mick went monthly with a change of policy BACK TO A RARE one and I think I can remember his words at the time something like " we are going back to the old union policy" ( we were up and running by this time ), what do you think we should have done? Packed in at the Attic??

I don't think one way or the other, I was asking a question.

SOME RED HERRINGS TO GO WITH MY HOVIS THEN....

point 3- are you saying we don't have a high opinion of the Union and therefore Mick H?.YOU DON'T KNOW ME AT ALL.OURS WAS ON A DIFFERENT NITE.15 MILES AWAY.

POINT 4- is there no difference then with our playlists and the Union?.

Sub genre's,,,yeah wer'e doing exactly the same....white sliced bread all round i think.........

btw..where were you in the 70's when the Brit was up and running.

Why do you ask what I think your "opinion of the Union" is? My question was directed to Steve L and was not ironic.

As for playlists, like I said I think its secondary to the main point.. and why is it relevant where I, or anybody else, was in the 70s?

just read post again Dave.Mark mentions playing to the dancefloor to keep the punters happy, in you original post,you said "another red herring" to go along with the others aimed at us.Are you saying we play to the dancefloor to impress? have you been near our venue? Your'e condemning us from afar,,,

one of the reasons the scene is shagged... iv'e kept this in good humour till now,

I didn't say Mark's post was a red herring... just the opposite. And I didn't think his post was referring to you, as indeed my agreement with it was not directed to you, or any one event, but comments on what ails the scene.

[Ted Massey]

We have run 2 venues round wolverhampton for rarer and underplayed sounds we had 10 turn up,

put some top dj's on as well John Weston,Simon Hunt,John Pugh ect,ect so where was all the people then ?

Hi Phil

you answered your own question it was Wolverhampton oldies only mate well nearly all

[Guest]

OVERKILL MEANS to finish off somthing off that is allready dead ? How dead are we? NOT FU.KING VERY!

THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDS KILLING OFF ON THIS SCENE IS THE NEGITIVE POLITICS..........NOT THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!

And I am not ready to die for your politics! AND YOU LOT ARE A LOAD OF MISRABLE WINGING C..NTS

Edited September 5, 2007 by mossy

[Guest]

Agree & Amen

[Guest]

OVERKILL MEANS to finish off somthing off that is allready dead ? How dead are we? NOT FU.KING VERY!

THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDS KILLING OFF ON THIS SCENE IS THE NEGITIVE POLITICS..........NOT THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!

And I am not ready to die for your politics! AND YOU LOT ARE A LOAD OF MISRABLE WINGING C..NTS

Its only polite to have a chat with the promotors that live near yourself if you intend to origanize somthing!

Me myself.................I would like to go to a little venue, that was free, that played rare SKA and 60s Soul, where Scootermaniacs.....Mods....Skins....Soul fans could get along and have a good drink? With no politics or bullshit! JUST A GOOD NIGHT ON THE BEER WITH GOOD TUNES!

I 'M A DREAMER?

Edited September 5, 2007 by mossy

[Sharon Cooper]

Does don't it Mark

Only a minor point with Joe's original post.

Barnsley, Chesterfield & Doncaster are not city's.

Unsure about this as theres no current soul nights on in Chesterfield.

[soulAdequateNP]

Unsure about this as theres no current soul nights on in Chesterfield.

Not as such, but Barrow Hill is as close as damit

[Guest Simon]

Me myself.................I would like to go to a little venue, that was free, that played rare SKA and 60s Soul, where Scootermaniacs.....Mods....Skins....Soul fans could get along and have a good drink? With no politics or bullshit! JUST A GOOD NIGHT ON THE BEER WITH GOOD TUNES!

I 'M A DREAMER?

I like a bit of Ska myself, if something other than NS was gonna be played i'd put my tick in the Ska box everytime.

The above you've mentioned sounds a bit like the Capitol Soul Club used to be, smartly dressed Skins, Mods, Soulies all dancing along to adrenalin fuelled sixties dancers, not sure about Scootermaniacs (depends if they're the sussed up variety or get pi**ed & listen to a load of old chestnuts variety).

On the question of beer i think this may also be having a detrimental affect on the scene, too many peeps who wanna get beered up rather than dancing, same goes for smokers, why would you want to stand outside a venue & smoke when there's records to dance to & records to talk about & purchase.

Simon

[debc]

OVERKILL MEANS to finish off somthing off that is allready dead ? How dead are we? NOT FU.KING VERY!

THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDS KILLING OFF ON THIS SCENE IS THE NEGITIVE POLITICS..........NOT THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!

And I am not ready to die for your politics! AND YOU LOT ARE A LOAD OF MISRABLE WINGING C..NTS

Its only polite to have a chat with the promotors that live near yourself if you intend to origanize somthing!

Me myself.................I would like to go to a little venue, that was free, that played rare SKA and 60s Soul, where Scootermaniacs.....Mods....Skins....Soul fans could get along and have a good drink? With no politics or bullshit! JUST A GOOD NIGHT ON THE BEER WITH GOOD TUNES!

I 'M A DREAMER?

hoping to put an alldayer on in jan next year for charity, encompassing all of above in two rooms. in a small town of failsworth (Between oldham and manchester) . reasons for this event is that it will be a dear friends 10th anniversary of his death. He was a scooter / skin and loved northern soul. We will be trying to raise money for two charities. Its all in the planning stages and am constantly checking other events around this area so we dont clash. if we get the dj's we want this event would be right up your street!!

regards Deb

[Guest]

I like a bit of Ska myself, if something other than NS was gonna be played i'd put my tick in the Ska box everytime.

The above you've mentioned sounds a bit like the Capitol Soul Club used to be, smartly dressed Skins, Mods, Soulies all dancing along to adrenalin fuelled sixties dancers, not sure about Scootermaniacs (depends if they're the sussed up variety or get pi**ed & listen to a load of old chestnuts variety).

On the question of beer i think this may also be having a detrimental affect on the scene, too many peeps who wanna get beered up rather than dancing, same goes for smokers, why would you want to stand outside a venue & smoke when there's records to dance to & records to talk about & purchase.

Simon

I was trying to make a point. My point is the FUN you can still have when your having a great night out!

Having a fantastic night with your mates! Without Politics being an issue??

Just having a great night out to a soundtrack of Soul n Ska etc!

As for the "Scootermaniacs" , Well in my experience most of the "Scooterists" in my area are well up for a night out and love good tuneage! "You never hear the snake anymore"

Its just sometimes when I keep reading negitive stuff on here I am like........No way! Its not that bad!

Whats wrong with everybody? Its still about having FUN for me!

As for putting nights on in the same area on the same night, well it is either bad planning or just downright rudeness!

[Guest]

hoping to put an alldayer on in jan next year for charity, encompassing all of above in two rooms. in a small town of failsworth (Between oldham and manchester) . reasons for this event is that it will be a dear friends 10th anniversary of his death. He was a scooter / skin and loved northern soul. We will be trying to raise money for two charities. Its all in the planning stages and am constantly checking other events around this area so we dont clash. if we get the dj's we want this event would be right up your street!!

regards Deb

make it happen !

[KevH]

I don't think one way or the other, I was asking a question.

Why do you ask what I think your "opinion of the Union" is? My question was directed to Steve L and was not ironic.

As for playlists, like I said I think its secondary to the main point.. and why is it relevant where I, or anybody else, was in the 70s?

I didn't say Mark's post was a red herring... just the opposite. And I didn't think his post was referring to you, as indeed my agreement with it was not directed to you, or any one event, but comments on what ails the scene.

cos in your original post,you said,,,,,"if you have such an high opinion of the Union" etc etc,,,,,,,giving the implication that we don't.End of subject for me.

Edited September 5, 2007 by KevH

[Sharon Cooper]

Not as such, but Barrow Hill is as close as damit

Sorry chuck

[Mak]

[quote Those are just the places I know... seems it's happening almost everywhere if you take into account the post about Sheffield. (And it's a sad day when the Ponds Forge Lads hang up there boots IMO.. one of the best soul nights of all!)

[Mak]

OVERKILL MEANS to finish off somthing off that is allready dead ? How dead are we? NOT FU.KING VERY!

THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDS KILLING OFF ON THIS SCENE IS THE NEGITIVE POLITICS..........NOT THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!

And I am not ready to die for your politics! AND YOU LOT ARE A LOAD OF MISRABLE WINGING C..NTS

Well said that man,

[Dean]

As for your comments which seem to be aimed at THE ATTIC , sorry m8 two totally differant venues(UNION) , both absolutely fantastic in there own right. No clashes, no back biting , no politics and none of this Bollox about overkill FFS

[Cunnie]

Unsure about this as theres no current soul nights on in Chesterfield.

Just used Chesterfield as an example Bridget to follow on from Joe's A B C & D comments.

Was not aimed at any specific venue.

Main point I was making is that when 'Vault Of Soul' started there was very little on in the South Yorks area.

[Cunnie]

I am lead to believe that Mark , Errol and co are re-locating not closing . I may be wrong if so I stand corrected .

As for your comments which seem to be aimed at THE ATTIC , sorry m8 two totally differant venues(UNION) , both absolutely fantastic in there own right. No clashes, no back biting , no politics and none of this Bollox about overkill FFS

Correct Mak.

'Vault Of Soul' are re-locating along with our 'Modernism' nights.

Sure Mark will tell you more in the correct part of site nearer the date but I can tell you they are both cracking venues.

Mart...

[Guest soul city]

Posibly true,since the smoking bands came in allnighters has lost its atmosphere am a non smoker so that does'nt bother me when theres a crowd off people around a table one gets up for a smoke they all go you look around the place is half empty and all a sudden they all pile back in half hour later there back out again.

Cheers Billy

PS.I can remember intrest rates at 18% still went out

dead right there Billy think you know i smoke 20+ day,but only do about 3 or 4 at a nighter

cant see the point in going to a venue if your gonna be outside all the time(unless they start playing overplayed oldies,that drive anyone out lol )

[Guest Bearsy]

dead right there Billy think you know i smoke 20+ day,but only do about 3 or 4 at a nighter

cant see the point in going to a venue if your gonna be outside all the time(unless they start playing overplayed oldies,that drive anyone out lol )

how about playing them outside and forcing all the smokers to stay inside, now theres a plan

[Dysonsoul]

mmmm

nah, i would say that overkill is the problem

after all

if have one event friday and one saturday or one weekend and one the next then could argue that they are clashes

well done mike a good thread that in reality will create more questions than it will answer imo of course .

lots of points that do and don't make sense all matters of opinion.to me the bottom line is it's damn rude (someone else remarked earlier) to put a event on when another is already on (especially when the music policy is directed along the same tributary as the other) here's our reasoning in this particular instance-when our october date was booked no similar music policy event was booked, but now the same night is the united soul club -the night before is burnley amongst others like wolverhampton etc.. well done chaps ! rather thoughtfull and good manners to boot..

A couple of weeks ago i cast my mind back to what a old school doorman told me " stand here let em kick the shit out of each other,when they've done go show them the door " this is what'll happen with the soul nite/r scene i think.so mick and myself are gonna just run lifeline weekender and put the niters into hibernation for now,of course there's a method in our madness - well of course...

I think the forward music policy line of the scene has been in a mess for a while,the future of our scene/s needs new stuff breaking by the likes of lifeline to feed through tunes to the stokes etc in 4-5 years time ! infact to be quite honest i don't see any other regular niter that employs dj's that actually has good solid upfront sets and have the balls to play em..

Let's not f*** about of course it's overkill ,sub standard nites and niters with sub standard dj's ,look at someof the venues sporting 3x' too many dj's (friends).the punters work hard for there money they certainly deserve a lot better than they are getting at the moment ! anyways i'm gonna play some tunes.

[Cunnie]

Let's not f*** about of course it's overkill ,sub standard nites and niters with sub standard dj's ,look at someof the venues sporting 3x' too many dj's (friends).the punters work hard for there money they certainly deserve a lot better than they are getting at the moment ! anyways i'm gonna play some tunes.

Thing is though Andy in a few years time some of these so called friends & sub standard DJ's will have worked their way through the ranks & be big names.

The smaller nights are a great breeding ground for future Jocks & some of them make a refreshing change from the so called 'A LIST' jocks who play the same stuff week in, week out.

[Little-stevie]

well done mike a good thread that in reality will create more questions than it will answer imo of course .

lots of points that do and don't make sense all matters of opinion.to me the bottom line is it's damn rude (someone else remarked earlier) to put a event on when another is already on (especially when the music policy is directed along the same tributary as the other) here's our reasoning in this particular instance-when our october date was booked no similar music policy event was booked, but now the same night is the united soul club -the night before is burnley amongst others like wolverhampton etc.. well done chaps ! rather thoughtfull and good manners to boot..

A couple of weeks ago i cast my mind back to what a old school doorman told me " stand here let em kick the shit out of each other,when they've done go show them the door " this is what'll happen with the soul nite/r scene i think.so mick and myself are gonna just run lifeline weekender and put the niters into hibernation for now,of course there's a method in our madness - well of course...

I think the forward music policy line of the scene has been in a mess for a while,the future of our scene/s needs new stuff breaking by the likes of lifeline to feed through tunes to the stokes etc in 4-5 years time ! infact to be quite honest i don't see any other regular niter that employs dj's that actually has good solid upfront sets and have the balls to play em..

Let's not f*** about of course it's overkill ,sub standard nites and niters with sub standard dj's ,look at someof the venues sporting 3x' too many dj's (friends).the punters work hard for there money they certainly deserve a lot better than they are getting at the moment ! anyways i'm gonna play some tunes.

Alwaya good to see you drop a line now again Andy..

you said.....

A couple of weeks ago i cast my mind back to what a old school doorman told me " stand here let em kick the shit out of each other,when they've done go show them the door "

So so true....Just sit back and watch it all...Its like feeding time at the zoo.....All the animals are trying feed from one small bowl and there just aint enough room or enough food...The fur will fly for sure

[Guest Simon]

well done mike a good thread that in reality will create more questions than it will answer imo of course .

lots of points that do and don't make sense all matters of opinion.to me the bottom line is it's damn rude (someone else remarked earlier) to put a event on when another is already on (especially when the music policy is directed along the same tributary as the other) here's our reasoning in this particular instance-when our october date was booked no similar music policy event was booked, but now the same night is the united soul club -the night before is burnley amongst others like wolverhampton etc.. well done chaps ! rather thoughtfull and good manners to boot..

A couple of weeks ago i cast my mind back to what a old school doorman told me " stand here let em kick the shit out of each other,when they've done go show them the door " this is what'll happen with the soul nite/r scene i think.so mick and myself are gonna just run lifeline weekender and put the niters into hibernation for now,of course there's a method in our madness - well of course...

I think the forward music policy line of the scene has been in a mess for a while,the future of our scene/s needs new stuff breaking by the likes of lifeline to feed through tunes to the stokes etc in 4-5 years time ! infact to be quite honest i don't see any other regular niter that employs dj's that actually has good solid upfront sets and have the balls to play em..

Let's not f*** about of course it's overkill ,sub standard nites and niters with sub standard dj's ,look at someof the venues sporting 3x' too many dj's (friends).the punters work hard for there money they certainly deserve a lot better than they are getting at the moment ! anyways i'm gonna play some tunes.

Hi Andy,

I'd personally be well chuffed if there was a Lifeline or something similar on down in the south east, wouldn't be 100% confident there's the audience for it down here but i'd be up for it personally, i've got some lovely what i term as conoisseurs records sitting on my shelf gathering dust, just never seems to be the opportunity to play them, i've sneaked the odd thig like Ernie Wheelright & The Deans etc. into my playlists but they usually flop.

Saying that there's not even that much in the way of bog standard NS nights on down here, seems there's a lot going on in certain parts of the country & hardly anything in other parts.

Simon

[Guest James Trouble]

well done mike a good thread that in reality will create more questions than it will answer imo of course .

lots of points that do and don't make sense all matters of opinion.to me the bottom line is it's damn rude (someone else remarked earlier) to put a event on when another is already on (especially when the music policy is directed along the same tributary as the other) here's our reasoning in this particular instance-when our october date was booked no similar music policy event was booked, but now the same night is the united soul club -the night before is burnley amongst others like wolverhampton etc.. well done chaps ! rather thoughtfull and good manners to boot..

A couple of weeks ago i cast my mind back to what a old school doorman told me " stand here let em kick the shit out of each other,when they've done go show them the door " this is what'll happen with the soul nite/r scene i think.so mick and myself are gonna just run lifeline weekender and put the niters into hibernation for now,of course there's a method in our madness - well of course...

I think the forward music policy line of the scene has been in a mess for a while,the future of our scene/s needs new stuff breaking by the likes of lifeline to feed through tunes to the stokes etc in 4-5 years time ! infact to be quite honest i don't see any other regular niter that employs dj's that actually has good solid upfront sets and have the balls to play em..

Let's not f*** about of course it's overkill ,sub standard nites and niters with sub standard dj's ,look at someof the venues sporting 3x' too many dj's (friends).the punters work hard for there money they certainly deserve a lot better than they are getting at the moment ! anyways i'm gonna play some tunes.

Good post Andy. I did write something similar, but a bit ruder so didn't post it.

It's about time the stranded sheep are culled, too many crap DJs, too many crap venues, too many crap sound systems, standards need to be higher, and punters should not put up with the huge quantity of crap that is on offer.

IMO the answer is not about attending nights like Lifeline and the Union more, ironically it's about NOT attending the shitters, even if your mate runs it. The problem with half/most these events is you are often made to feel guilty if you don't attend because you know one of the people running it. Get tough and don't feed them, don't attend the crap events, only attend the good ones. even if your mate runs a poor event.

I'm not saying London is all peace and good will, but it does seem that promoters seem to communicate with each other here more than in other parts of the country. The reason that there is no Soul Revolution in September is because it was felt that because the 100 club anniversary bash was on in september it would be best not to put Soul Rev on the week before. As has been pointed out on this thread, numbers dwindle on the weekends either side of a big all nighter, so it was felt it was best for the scene to not have Soul Rev on in September, and concentrate on making 100 club the best party in town that month, one really special party instead of two good ones. Makes perfect sense. Also Rob Bailey and I had a chat recently abotu NYE, and we are making sure our music policy and therefor the crowd does not overlap, to make sure we have the best possible partys.

As I say, London is not perfect and all peace and good will to all men, but there does seem to be a bit of togetherness between promoters to make sure the scene is as good as it can be. Individual promoters have to put egos to one side and concentrate on what is best for the scene, the music and the punters, not for their ego.

I don't feel too comfortable to be discussing what are private conversations, but it is worrying when there are two nights on in the same town and crowds are gettng split. It's not fair on the punters and especially not fair on those who have travelled many miles and done a load of money in petrol and hotels etc.

Of course this is only my opinion. But to hear that Lifeline could be stopping it's allnighters because of crowds being split is a scary thought when there are many more events that should be stopping first because they don't really deserve to be supported at all.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Im just wondering if this thread is not an oversimplification to explain falling attendances. I would have thought there's many individual reasons why numbers maybe dropping although last time I went out, Burnley allnighter didn't seem to have that particular problem. I guess that would bear out what Mr.Dyson is saying that there will always be an audience for "upfront" sets, although I tend to see those nights as really just the continuation of what Northern was once all about.

Choice is not a bad thing and I've no idea if there are more nights on now than ever before. Seemed to be an awful lot back when Black Echoes used to publish what was on.

I suppose I am one of those who have stopped going now but it's nothing to do with too many venues. The music was always more appealing than the scene. Nowadays for two of us you're talking at least £50 at an allnighter with admission,petrol,drinks and I'd rather spend that money on 45s. I used to enjoy looking through the sales boxes but can't remember last time I actually bought anything when it's usually so much cheaper on Ebay.

ROD

[coops]

Good post Andy. I did write something similar, but a bit ruder so didn't post it.

It's about time the stranded sheep are culled, too many crap DJs, too many crap venues, too many crap sound systems, standards need to be higher, and punters should not put up with the huge quantity of crap that is on offer.

IMO the answer is not about attending nights like Lifeline and the Union more, ironically it's about NOT attending the shitters, even if your mate runs it. The problem with half/most these events is you are often made to feel guilty if you don't attend because you know one of the people running it. Get tough and don't feed them, don't attend the crap events, only attend the good ones. even if your mate runs a poor event.

I'm not saying London is all peace and good will, but it does seem that promoters seem to communicate with each other here more than in other parts of the country. The reason that there is no Soul Revolution in September is because it was felt that because the 100 club anniversary bash was on in september it would be best not to put Soul Rev on the week before. As has been pointed out on this thread, numbers dwindle on the weekends either side of a big all nighter, so it was felt it was best for the scene to not have Soul Rev on in September, and concentrate on making 100 club the best party in town that month, one really special party instead of two good ones. Makes perfect sense. Also Rob Bailey and I had a chat recently abotu NYE, and we are making sure our music policy and therefor the crowd does not overlap, to make sure we have the best possible partys.

As I say, London is not perfect and all peace and good will to all men, but there does seem to be a bit of togetherness between promoters to make sure the scene is as good as it can be. Individual promoters have to put egos to one side and concentrate on what is best for the scene, the music and the punters, not for their ego.

I don't feel too comfortable to be discussing what are private conversations, but it is worrying when there are two nights on in the same town and crowds are gettng split. It's not fair on the punters and especially not fair on those who have travelled many miles and done a load of money in petrol and hotels etc.

Of course this is only my opinion. But to hear that Lifeline could be stopping it's allnighters because of crowds being split is a scary thought when there are many more events that should be stopping first because they don't really deserve to be supported at all.

i guess that's just one opinion, the opinion that really counts is that of the paying punter, about where he or she wants to spend his or her pound note.

we often have such a fondness for our music and our scene that it can sometimes be bordering on obsession, but...... it ain't about 'us' it's about US..... it's about letting people decide whether this places equipment is worth them paying their quid or the other places dee jays' rare or not rare records is worth the quid.

Frustration oft occurs when we feel that WE are right and THEY must believe our side of an argument.

Live and let live, cream will always rise to the top, unless a venue is funded by a KR type person with loads of dosh (most ain't) then they will close when the numbers drop. Darwin had a phrase for it... Natural Selection?

[Rushden Vic]

i reckon over the years theres always been to many venues , the majority run by promoters who have little or no interest in keeping the scene fresh and more keen to line there pockets .

punters especially those who return after a 20 year absence and just wanna hear the same old stuff churned out to remind them of there youth .

its always been the same with just the hardcore collecters /djs trying to play upfront stuff some of which eventually trickles through to the mainstream venues

wannabee djs with no records or knowledge start promoting so they can dj then get other dj promoter pals so they can all slap each other on the back and dj at each others events.

the amount of decent upfront venues you can count on one hand but they do have a sizeable following and if it wasnt for these , the scene in my opinion would be in a sorry state .

i hope andy dyson and mick h reconsider cancelling the lifeline nighters as this is what it should be about hearing new and underplayed quality soul . for me thats what keeps my interest there after 30 odd years without the likes of lifeline/burnley and being with likeminded people who still care about the scene progressing .

Edited September 6, 2007 by Tony Parker

[coops]

i reckon over the years theres always been to many venues , the majority run by promoters who have little or no interest in keeping the scene fresh and more keen to line there pockets .

punters especially those who return after a 20 year absence and just wanna hear the same old stuff churned out to remind them of there youth .

its always been the same with just the hardcore collecters /djs trying to play upfront stuff some of which eventually trickles through to the mainstream venues

wannabee djs with no records or knowledge start promoting so they can dj then get other dj promoters so they can all slap each other on the back and dj at each others events.

the amount of decent upfront venues you can count on one hand but the do have a sizeable following and if it wasnt for these , the scene in my opinion would be in a sorry state .

i hope andy dyson and mick h reconsider cancelling the lifeline nighters as this is what it should be about hearing new and underplayed quality soul . for me thats what keeps my interest there after 30 odd years without the likes of lifeline/burnley and being with likeminded people who still care about the scene progressing .

the scene will die soon anyhow, we ain't getting any younger, and perhaps that's how it should be.

as to there only being a handful of upfront venues then that's the natural selection i and dawin are on about. the populus is chosing alternate to upfront and deciding they want their 'classic'.

although i may or may not agree with 'them', 'they' should not be judged as a lower form of northern life.