Overkill A Problem ?

[Guest kelvinx]

Re:-Nighters....About ten years ago I would go to maybe 6 nighters a year, now I dont do any...Still get a buzz from the scene but just go to at least 1 weekender instead.

I think for a lot of us with other commitments its easier to put all your eggs in 1 basket and have one annual blow out...

[Guest Bogue]

I've recently started a similar thread to this on a Modern Soul forum, Mike, where attendances just aint wot they used to be!

It seems that the current problem affects all strands of the scene.

Turn back the clock 25+ years, there were very few DJ's around (who could hold their own) and even fewer promoters.

The last 8 or so years though has seen a rise in popularity of the UK Soul scene (mainly via returnees) and, now that some of these lads and lasses have 'a bit more about them' everyone (it seems) wants to try their hand at DJ'ing, promoting or both.

Now as we appear to be in an overkill situation (in many counties, but certainly not all) the choice on a weekend is far too great, diluting the crowd and reducing attendances at many events.

Net result, nights that rarely live up to the hype or expectations, lacking in atmosphere and creating disappointment for all concerned.

As a consequence, the disillusioned punter believes that he can do better, and naturally, decides to give it a go himself... further fragmenting the potential audience.

It's an inevitable, unfortunate, cycle of events, that can only be filtered out through time and natural selection.

Personally, I'd rather see (or attend) a small room environment with a buzz and 50 odd punters that are up for it, than a mega room spectacular with everyone rattling around a three quarters empty dancefloor!

I guess the future is highly likely to be... reduced numbers, better quality venues and more of a listening / social environment (at least for us over 50's). However, I don't know what I'd make of that sort of set up if I was a youngster looking for a good old fashioned rave up!

Had good nights up at Thorne and Qube recently and heard great reports about such venues as Lifeline. The cream will always rise to the top, however, every venue and venture has a lifespan... and even good things don't last forever!

Sean

Although in certain areas it looks like there are a few who do the crazy thing of starting up nights on the same night as other venues, i personaly think people have just got to accept that the scene is going through another change period brought on by our time of life, & that the end result will perhaps be something along the lines of what Sean has pointed out.

Have said it before in other threads, the majority of NSoul music lovers are entering that phase of life where other things take up their spare time & money. The 'free again' late 30's & 40's are now becoming the 50 somethings, & so are becoming that dreaded word 'grandparents' ! & those that are still free are perhaps holidaying abroad more often or buying villas/appartments. So in a word the available number of punters is down anyway !

Add the fact that the body can't take it as much as it used to & it becomes inevatable that something must give.

My take is the same as Sean, i think the days of the large venue are coming to a close & a small intimate local club scene will take over, with music aimed at the listeners as well as the dancers.

If you think about it, it could be said it is returning to it's roots of the small 60's clubs so maybe it might be better to embrace it rather than fight it & kill it with politics & bad feeling ? Just a thought.

[Guest Simon]

yes but if there are two promoters in the same town/city whats the point of both promotions on the same night? irrespective of the playlists/music policy. Surely it would be better to try and maximise your attendance by not being on the same night. Common sense as well if you ask me.

The arguement that "we have a different music policy to you" does wash with me either, it's all northern soul/rare soul at the end of the day. Granted give soulies a choice but does it have to be on the same night? I think not when there are three other weekends in the month.

I agree with you Chalky about not having two promotions on one night in the same town/city, i'm amazed that happens tbh but then i live in Brighton where you're lucky if there's a do on once every couple of months.

But on the other point there's deffo people who've stopped going to dos because of the same old tunes, i myself though am being positive about it all & am trying to search out dos which i think are trying to do things the way i think they should be done.

I'm off to Luton on Friday & hope to get up to Burnley & also your Lifeline dos in the very near future, this musics deffo to good for just indoors, living the nightlife's where it's at!

Simon

[Guest]

Getting the balance is IMHO the answer

Balance of sounds (be that classics/rarities/modern/crossover/RnB (whateva)

Balance of "customers" at the "right" night

Balance of bookings

Customers(punters?) are THE most important, not DJs, not Promoters, etc etc cos without them we are all up that deficating creek

I have run/organised/promoted Soul Galore for nearly 12 years - yes its bloody hard work - in an ex mining village now given "town" status in the bandit country bordering Worksop/Rotherham/Sheffield. I TRY and give what customers ask for, if I haven't got it I'll do my best to TRY and get it etc etc

The biggest stick I get is for NOT having Soul Galore on the first/last/2nd Friday/Saturday of the month. I've always checked listings elsewhere and done my best to avoid clashes BUT some Promoters don't bother, pick a date,pick a venue,pick some passing trade and everything's rosy - NOT!

I COULD quote loads of examples places & promoters but what'll it achieve? A get together was encouraged 10 years ago in our local area who attended? Yeah me I've supported other "new" functions, given advice, given exposure and coverage and the NKOTB fans his ego - my do's are the best blah blah blah

Its tough but you gotta keep evolving, market needs etc

To quote Karyn White "I've got my pride I will not cry"

If your night is oldies, his night is modern, their's is RnB so be it - but do your homework everyone. Really hacks me off when "customers" go to a night "expecting" this that & other and then slag it off here and on other forums - no need, put your suggestion in the same box as your ego (at the door)

Rant over

[Jimmy A]

This was how it was in the Notts/Derby area 7-10 years ago when you had the three A's..Alfreton,Annesley,Awsworth on different nights of the month....they were all rammed and you had to get there early to guarantee getting in!..

Oggie.

oh the good old days hey!

[KevH]

you can have 2 venues in the same town,it depends on music played at each club.

If one is out and out oldies and the other "modern", the crowd will sort itself!!!.Same if one venue is RNB, and the other is upfront,progressive rare sounds.

So music policy matters imo.Why bother billing yourself as anything but NORTHERN then??.The people paying to come in need to know.Yes its all under the same umbrella,but with differences.

As for overkill......

1.not starting nites too near other venues.-are we proposing some kind of exclusion zone around venues?? Exclusive rights to some? And who are these people who are gonna get exclusive rights?

Who and how we going to decide that?.Length of time on the scene,who you know,what records you got?

Rant over.................on a lighter note its a customers market.

Northern scene is like bread,At one time you got white sliced,no choice.Now you get 30 kinds in TESCO,,,,,,,,,,, ,but its still bread.

If Nothern crowd had been running HOVIS,we'd still be buying brown unsliced Hovis,cycling our bollocks off up that hill.

[Sharon Cooper]

you can have 2 venues in the same town,it depends on music played at each club.

If one is out and out oldies and the other "modern", the crowd will sort itself!!!.Same if one venue is RNB, and the other is upfront,progressive rare sounds.

So music policy matters imo.Why bother billing yourself as anything but NORTHERN then??.The people paying to come in need to know.Yes its all under the same umbrella,but with differences.

As for overkill......

1.not starting nites too near other venues.-are we proposing some kind of exclusion zone around venues?? Exclusive rights to some? And who are these people who are gonna get exclusive rights?

Who and how we going to decide that?.Length of time on the scene,who you know,what records you got?

Rant over.................on a lighter note its a customers market.

Northern scene is like bread,At one time you got white sliced,no choice.Now you get 30 kinds in TESCO,,,,,,,,,,, ,but its still bread.

If Nothern crowd had been running HOVIS,we'd still be buying brown unsliced Hovis,cycling our bollocks off up that hill.

Spot on rant lad

[Guest krawen]

you can have 2 venues in the same town,it depends on music played at each club.

If one is out and out oldies and the other "modern", the crowd will sort itself!!!.Same if one venue is RNB, and the other is upfront,progressive rare sounds.

So music policy matters imo.Why bother billing yourself as anything but NORTHERN then??.The people paying to come in need to know.Yes its all under the same umbrella,but with differences.

As for overkill......

1.not starting nites too near other venues.-are we proposing some kind of exclusion zone around venues?? Exclusive rights to some? And who are these people who are gonna get exclusive rights?

Who and how we going to decide that?.Length of time on the scene,who you know,what records you got?

Rant over.................on a lighter note its a customers market.

Northern scene is like bread,At one time you got white sliced,no choice.Now you get 30 kinds in TESCO,,,,,,,,,,, ,but its still bread.

If Nothern crowd had been running HOVIS,we'd still be buying brown unsliced Hovis,cycling our bollocks off up that hill.

Whats with the bread fetish then Kev

[Bazza]

you can have 2 venues in the same town,it depends on music played at each club.

If one is out and out oldies and the other "modern", the crowd will sort itself!!!.Same if one venue is RNB, and the other is upfront,progressive rare sounds.

So music policy matters imo.Why bother billing yourself as anything but NORTHERN then??.The people paying to come in need to know.Yes its all under the same umbrella,but with differences.

As for overkill......

1.not starting nites too near other venues.-are we proposing some kind of exclusion zone around venues?? Exclusive rights to some? And who are these people who are gonna get exclusive rights?

Who and how we going to decide that?.Length of time on the scene,who you know,what records you got?

Rant over.................on a lighter note its a customers market.

Northern scene is like bread,At one time you got white sliced,no choice.Now you get 30 kinds in TESCO,,,,,,,,,,, ,but its still bread.

If Nothern crowd had been running HOVIS,we'd still be buying brown unsliced Hovis,cycling our bollocks off up that hill.

Yes,I agree with this Kev...its not as simple as saying " too many venues not enough punters"

1. for the reasons you have stated

2. I like to get out most saturdays....supposing the only do' on localish (with in say 50 miles ) is not to my taste..I either dont go out, or travel much further...

the only problem I have with do's that cater to a certain style , R&B,underplayed ,100mph ,oldies

is that I like R&B and underplayed stuff ..but the wife prefares the classics, so unless the venue is across the board...I dont get chance to hear much of the stuff I prefer, of course I realize thats just a personal problem ( got to educate her )

Bazza

[Guest Bogue]

you can have 2 venues in the same town,it depends on music played at each club.

If one is out and out oldies and the other "modern", the crowd will sort itself!!!.Same if one venue is RNB, and the other is upfront,progressive rare sounds.

So music policy matters imo.Why bother billing yourself as anything but NORTHERN then??.The people paying to come in need to know.Yes its all under the same umbrella,but with differences.

As for overkill......

1.not starting nites too near other venues.-are we proposing some kind of exclusion zone around venues?? Exclusive rights to some? And who are these people who are gonna get exclusive rights?

Who and how we going to decide that?.Length of time on the scene,who you know,what records you got?

Rant over.................on a lighter note its a customers market.

Northern scene is like bread,At one time you got white sliced,no choice.Now you get 30 kinds in TESCO,,,,,,,,,,, ,but its still bread.

If Nothern crowd had been running HOVIS,we'd still be buying brown unsliced Hovis,cycling our bollocks off up that hill.

Love the Bread anology Kev.

You are right i guess regarding starting venues, though i still think it's a bit naughty to not at least try & stage it on a different night to existing do's. Though i guess you have a good point if the music policy is totally different ! In those situations it still might be better if the two factions got together & looked for a two room venue ?

[Bazza]

Yes,I agree with this Kev...its not as simple as saying " too many venues not enough punters"

1. for the reasons you have stated

2. I like to get out most saturdays....supposing the only do' on localish (with in say 50 miles ) is not to my taste..I either dont go out, or travel much further...

the only problem I have with do's that cater to a certain style , R&B,underplayed ,100mph ,oldies

is that I like R&B and underplayed stuff ..but the wife prefares the classics, so unless the venue is across the board...I dont get chance to hear much of the stuff I prefer, of course I realize thats just a personal problem ( got to educate her )

Bazza

Just adding to this...If I had to travel great distances..we would have to start getting read much earlier so that would be half of saturday gone getting home much later by the time I had surfaced half of sunday would be gone......I do want a life outside of soul

Bazza

[Guest krawen]

Just adding to this...If I had to travel great distances..we would have to start getting ready much earlier so that would be half of saturday gone getting home much later by the time I had surfaced half of sunday would be gone......I do want a life outside of soul

Bazza

Yes I can just picture it Bazza , you've got all those black T shirts layed out on the bed, you pacing up and down like your doing best in show at Crufts thinkin' Hmmm I just can't make my mind up I'll just have to take you all.........where's me adidas bag

[Bazza]

Yes I can just picture it Bazza , you've got all those black T shirts layed out on the bed, you pacing up and down like your doing best in show at Crufts thinkin' Hmmm I just can't make my mind up I'll just have to take you all.........where's me adidas bag

yes Steve...anyway Ill use any colour T shirt...................as long as its black

Bazza

[Guest krawen]

Yes I can just picture it Bazza , you've got all those black T shirts layed out on the bed, you pacing up and down like your doing best in show at Crufts thinkin' Hmmm I just can't make my mind up I'll just have to take you all.........where's me adidas bag

On a more serious note , and all the current promoters in the Notts & Derby area will confirm this , the only way not to clash with anybody round our neck of the woods is to start a mid week soul night ( and who wants to do that ). I see from the events threads that this has been done in other areas in the past, how did they do as being a shift worker myself would find it difficult to get out every other week.

Steve B

[Shsdave]

more like treading water

Treading water Bearsy ? With that sort of outlook sooner the bugger drowns the better

[Guest Bearsy]

Treading water Bearsy ? With that sort of outlook sooner the bugger drowns the better

is that the record or the person asking for it again Dave

[Shsdave]

is that the record or the person asking for it again Dave

Can't knock the record Bearsy NOT that I have any desire to hear it out. does that answer your question ? ha ha hows the knee mate?

[Mike]

some good views been posted

clashes seem to come up

but aint clashes just a knock on effect of overkill though?

[vaultofsouler]

but aint clashes just a knock on effect of overkill though?

I'd say it was the other way around on this statement Mike.... clashes create overkill....

[Mike]

I'd say it was the other way around on this statement Mike.... clashes create overkill....

mmmm

nah, i would say that overkill is the problem

after all

if have one event friday and one saturday or one weekend and one the next then could argue that they are clashes

[vaultofsouler]

mmmm

nah, i would say that overkill is the problem

after all

if have one event friday and one saturday or one weekend and one the next then could argue that they are clashes

Was thinking more along the lines of venues being set up on same nights within same city/town or very local.... irrespective of the arguement about a venues music policy.... hence the clashes create overkill statement....

[Guest Bogue]

mmmm

nah, i would say that overkill is the problem

after all

if have one event friday and one saturday or one weekend and one the next then could argue that they are clashes

Which ever way round, any thoughts on the solution then ? Mike / anyone ? Pretty much an impossible task i would have thought ?

[Bazza]

Overkill or is it healthy competition...the ones folks prefer will carry on ...the others will die.....wont they ????

just a matter of time...the point is a lot of em are just not worth the bother of getting too, some are ,I know the ones I like..so I go to them

Bazza

I do try to get around as much as I can ,to try em out btw

Edited September 4, 2007 by bazza

[Chalky]

Overkill or is it healthy competition...the ones folks prefer will carry on ...the others will die.....wont they ????

just a matter of time...the point is a lot of em are just not worth the bother of getting too, some are ,I know the ones I like..so I go to them

Bazza

I do try to get around as much as I can ,to try em out btw

How on earth can two venues in the same city/town be healthy? Healthy for who? Certainly not he local soulies who forced to choose between one or the other rather than benefit from two venues on differing weekends. It can't be healthy for the promoter when the paying customers are spread over two venues and it's not healthy for the scene cause of the politics and arguements it causes.

Some one else said if they want to put another promotion on it would have to be midweek, so why bother in the first place if the calendar locally is already so busy? I can't see the point of promoting a night when there is already another night in the same town/city just a handful of miles apart regardless of the music policy of either. I certainly wouldn't promote a night just 'cause I wanted to hear something different on the same night as a venue with a music policy I'm sick of hearing, I'd look for another date, look elsewhere or just not bother.

[Dave Moore]

How on earth can two venues in the same city/town be healthy? Healthy for who? Certainly not he local soulies who forced to choose between one or the other rather than benefit from two venues on differing weekends. It can't be healthy for the promoter when the paying customers are spread over two venues and it's not healthy for the scene cause of the politics and arguements it causes.

Some one else said if they want to put another promotion on it would have to be midweek, so why bother in the first place if the calendar locally is already so busy? I can't see the point of promoting a night when there is already another night in the same town/city just a handful of miles apart regardless of the music policy of either. I certainly wouldn't promote a night just 'cause I wanted to hear something different on the same night as a venue with a music policy I'm sick of hearing, I'd look for another date, look elsewhere or just not bother.

Or maybe try and influence the music at the established venue? Of course that can work against you too. In the 90s a few of us got together and ran a few 'do's' in an upstairs room of a local hotel. Only held about 100 people. Free to get in, as the music policy was "play what you want'. Likes of Andy Rix, Tim Brown, Rob Thomas, Barry Waddington and a few others came up and did sets. All for free.

A guy came up and asked me for Little Queenie. Told him "Sorry mate, can't play records like that here - not that type of venue", you could have knocked me down with a feather when 5 minutes after I left the decks the record was played by another resident.

"Got to keep the dancefloor hapy' was the excuse.

We only did one more. Didn't seem much point in continuing if all we were gonna do is play the same records as the other venues within a 20 mile radius. Went back to house parties!

[good angel]

I can think of one soul night around here,your as just as well putting a N/S,cd on in the pub,all the punters want do is get p#ssed and use the place as a knocking shop.

Kev

[Bazza]

How on earth can two venues in the same city/town be healthy? Healthy for who? Certainly not he local soulies who forced to choose between one or the other rather than benefit from two venues on differing weekends. It can't be healthy for the promoter when the paying customers are spread over two venues and it's not healthy for the scene cause of the politics and arguements it causes.

Some one else said if they want to put another promotion on it would have to be midweek, so why bother in the first place if the calendar locally is already so busy? I can't see the point of promoting a night when there is already another night in the same town/city just a handful of miles apart regardless of the music policy of either. I certainly wouldn't promote a night just 'cause I wanted to hear something different on the same night as a venue with a music policy I'm sick of hearing, I'd look for another date, look elsewhere or just not bother.

Chalky ..when Im looking looking to go out on a saturday I would'nt like to think there was only one do on within say 50 miles why should I be resticted, just so the promoter gets a full house...if he cant get it right tuff, I go out to enjoy my self.thats my main concern , if I dont like a place or the misic policy is not to my taste I wont go ,why should I ,but if theres another do on the same night within 50 or so miles and I prefer that Venue ..I will go there....its a matter of choice....do you think im wrong in wanting a choice ,would you prefer to put on your Jackboots and march me off to a place I dont wanna go..its either this place or stop in...nope I prefer a choice

Bazza

[Bazza]

I can think of one soul night around here,your as just as well putting a N/S,cd on in the pub,all the punters want do is get p#ssed and use the place as a knocking shop.

Kev

At a guess...thats ilkeston...she sez its just a knockin shop

Bazza

[Chalky]

Chalky ..when Im looking looking to go out on a saturday I would'nt like to think there was only one do on within say 50 miles why should I be resticted, just so the promoter gets a full house...if he cant get it right tuff, I go out to enjoy my self.thats my main concern , if I dont like a place or the misic policy is not to my taste I wont go ,why should I ,but if theres another do on the same night within 50 or so miles and I prefer that Venue ..I will go there....its a matter of choice....do you think im wrong in wanting a choice ,would you prefer to put on your Jackboots and march me off to a place I dont wanna go..its either this place or stop in...nope I prefer a choice

Bazza

I'm not talking 50 miles, I'm talking the same town A 50 miles radius is or can be a large catchment area and could be healthy competition with no worries about how many through the door.

[KevH]

you can have 2 venues in the same town,it depends on music played at each club.

If one is out and out oldies and the other "modern", the crowd will sort itself!!!.Same if one venue is RNB, and the other is upfront,progressive rare sounds.

So music policy matters imo.Why bother billing yourself as anything but NORTHERN then??.The people paying to come in need to know.Yes its all under the same umbrella,but with differences.

As for overkill......

1.not starting nites too near other venues.-are we proposing some kind of exclusion zone around venues?? Exclusive rights to some? And who are these people who are gonna get exclusive rights?

Who and how we going to decide that?.Length of time on the scene,who you know,what records you got?

Rant over.................on a lighter note its a customers market.

Northern scene is like bread,At one time you got white sliced,no choice.Now you get 30 kinds in TESCO,,,,,,,,,,, ,but its still bread.

If Nothern crowd had been running HOVIS,we'd still be buying brown unsliced Hovis,cycling our bollocks off up that hill.

[Bazza]

Another point ,I am lucky I think, I live in the middle of it all ,Mansfield Sheffield Notts and surrounding areas Do's all over the the place ..but if I lived futher up north the more southern do's would not be "local" .if I lived further south the sheffield and more northern do's would not be "local"

Dont know why I posted this obvious really

Bazza

[Guest dundeedavie]

ok then , we have too many venues .... if we had a panel say that decided such things the questions would be :-

what is the criteria for a venue staying open ? is it as easy as saying the first one stays open or do you apply a quality control?

what if the first one has gotten stale and the newer one is fresh sounding ?

so folks put yourself in a theoretical position of deciding , what are your criteria ?

[KevH]

i've got it!!!.So easy any one could sort this out!!

Post code soulies.........stay in your post code,support that venue,,no problem.

Applies to "dj's" as well though. ,No border crossing,going to police this correctly.

Get what your given,RnB,crossover,northern,modern,it will depend on where you live.

HOW'S THAT?.

Next.....the invasion of Poland and who gets which weekend in any given month....watch this space.......

Edited September 4, 2007 by KevH

[KevH]

ok then , we have too many venues .... if we had a panel say that decided such things the questions would be :-

what is the criteria for a venue staying open ? is it as easy as saying the first one stays open or do you apply a quality control?

what if the first one has gotten stale and the newer one is fresh sounding ?

so folks put yourself in a theoretical position of deciding , what are your criteria ?

agree with the sentiments DD2,but can you imagine trying to nominate a panel??? ,who'd end up on it??,it'd be like the American elections all over again.

[Skegsoul]

if i was only aloud to go 2 do's in and around skegness, i just wouldnt bother. apart from the vault at the weekenders there is nothing for me.i choose to travel every weekend 2 events 2 hear the music of my choice,things that locally i just couldnt hear. i still want 2 hear things that excite me,things i want 2 own,in the same way as a 15/16 year old lad.then i would spend weekends going 2 places where searling or vincent were on. a lot of the " soulies" round here just want 2 stay in the comfort zone, the little bubble of there youth.there chioce, but not for me.

i think the different music policys of the various do's determine the crowd that attend, as say if i had 2 choose between the boat and the attic, i would choose the boat. not because of the folks that are putting them on,i like kev and the boys, and i get on ok with mickh, but the music. its all down to choice at the end of the day.

[Guest dundeedavie]

agree with the sentiments DD2,but can you imagine trying to nominate a panel??? ,who'd end up on it??,it'd be like the American elections all over again.

that was kinda the point i was trying to make ...but also why it would have to be hypothetical

[Guest Simon]

How on earth can two venues in the same city/town be healthy? Healthy for who?

This is such a tricky one, on one hand i sorta agree with you that it's nonsensical to put a do on on the same night but as Bazza says what if all the dos that are currently on are total cr*p.

I suppose there's 3 choices 1)try & influence the venue 2)start up your own do 3)stay indoors.

Simon

[Guest Simon]

Going back to the boring playlists part of this thread & going slightly off tangent, has anyone just received through the post JM's half price list.

Now this is not a plug for John's list because he hardly needs my backing as the list sells itself BUT there's some incredible underplayed bargains on that list.

I'm pretty sure a lot of these things wouldn't be on that list if they were flying out the door which begs the question are most people buying the same hhandfull of records, personally i think the answer is yes.

Must admit in the last 5 years, Beat Ballads, Big City Soul, Connoiseurs stuff etc. seems to have stopped being played in a lot of places, i don't get out as much as i'd like but a lot of the playlists on here certainly reflect that fact.

Has the majority of the NS scene now become very very safe & unadventurous, are people scared to clear the floor even for one record, & another thing i've been thinking about recently, are the majority of the djs spinning nowadays as knowledgeable as say djs from ten years ago.

I get the feeling that a lot of new djs have a limited knowledge of tunes out there, they certainly know all the big tunes from the last 5 years but do they know stuff from before then? Also on the other side of the coin do the returnee/mid-life crisis djs have the knowledge of the newer tunes & are they even interested?

Simon

[Bazza]

Going back to the boring playlists part of this thread & going slightly off tangent, has anyone just received through the post JM's half price list.

Now this is not a plug for John's list because he hardly needs my backing as the list sells itself BUT there's some incredible underplayed bargains on that list.

I'm pretty sure a lot of these things wouldn't be on that list if they were flying out the door which begs the question are most people buying the same hhandfull of records, personally i think the answer is yes.

Must admit in the last 5 years, Beat Ballads, Big City Soul, Connoiseurs stuff etc. seems to have stopped being played in a lot of places, i don't get out as much as i'd like but a lot of the playlists on here certainly reflect that fact.

Has the majority of the NS scene now become very very safe & unadventurous, are people scared to clear the floor even for one record, & another thing i've been thinking about recently, are the majority of the djs spinning nowadays as knowledgeable as say djs from ten years ago.

I get the feeling that a lot of new djs have a limited knowledge of tunes out there, they certainly know all the big tunes from the last 5 years but do they know stuff from before then? Also on the other side of the coin do the returnee/mid-life crisis djs have the knowledge of the newer tunes & are they even interested?

Simon

Yes Nail on the head...this is the biggest problem ...got to keep the floor full...safe safe safe.........very very boring.....I dont see a problem clearing the floor ...infact if a DJ does'nt clear the floor a a few times he is obviously playing too safe.....be a man not a mouse....be daring the next time you play it ,it may fill the floor

Bazza

just adding to this....although it looks as tho' you've got the right policy as in (got to fill the floor safe safe safe ) this lasts only for a certain length of time , then for some unexplainable reason..the punters stop coming......and you cant understand why

Bazza

Edited September 4, 2007 by bazza

[KevH]

Going back to the boring playlists part of this thread & going slightly off tangent, has anyone just received through the post JM's half price list.

Now this is not a plug for John's list because he hardly needs my backing as the list sells itself BUT there's some incredible underplayed bargains on that list.

I'm pretty sure a lot of these things wouldn't be on that list if they were flying out the door which begs the question are most people buying the same hhandfull of records, personally i think the answer is yes.

Must admit in the last 5 years, Beat Ballads, Big City Soul, Connoiseurs stuff etc. seems to have stopped being played in a lot of places, i don't get out as much as i'd like but a lot of the playlists on here certainly reflect that fact.

Has the majority of the NS scene now become very very safe & unadventurous, are people scared to clear the floor even for one record, & another thing i've been thinking about recently, are the majority of the djs spinning nowadays as knowledgeable as say djs from ten years ago.

I get the feeling that a lot of new djs have a limited knowledge of tunes out there, they certainly know all the big tunes from the last 5 years but do they know stuff from before then? Also on the other side of the coin do the returnee/mid-life crisis djs have the knowledge of the newer tunes & are they even interested?

Simon

simon ,i know you mean well but,

"new dj's"-do you mean new to the scene,or new behind the decks,or that you don't know them?

Know stuff from before- knowing stuff from before, and being there when it happened are 2 different things.you wouldn't want someone banging on about The TORCH,WHEEL OR MECCA all the time,using that as credentials.Some never went.

Edited September 4, 2007 by KevH

[Guest Simon]

simon ,i know you mean well but,

"new dj's"-do you mean new to the scene,or new behind the decks,or that you don't know them?

Know stuff from before- knowing stuff from before, and being there when it happened are 2 different things.you wouldn't want someone banging on about The TORCH,WHEEL OR MECCA all the time,using that as credentials.Some never went.

Hi Kev,

Yes, when i say "new djs" i mean peeps that have only been on the scene about five years, they know a lot of the big tunes from the last 5 years but do they know about those bargains sitting out there waiting to be snapped up & played or are they just interested in what's in & flavour of the month?

Returnee/Mid life-crisis djs - Are they trying to relive their youth by playing tunes that remind them of the salad days of yonder or are they interested in pushing the scene forward?

Obviously i'm massively generalising & stereotyping but there's deffo peeps out there in both the above camps imo & they are possibly detrimental to the NS scene, perhaps?

Simon

[pikeys dog]

City A has a soul night getting a couple of hundred in, drawing in people from city B, C and D as well.

Some of the people attending from City B see quite a few people from their area in attendance and decide that they could put on a night in their city and not have to travel quite so far for a night out.

The Soul night at City A loses about a sixth of its regular 'punters' in one fell swoop.

City C is inbetween city A and B, so many of the people from that city decide to alternate between the venues each month as "City A will always be on next month", causing a further loss.

City A's venue is now down to just over 50% of it's regular customer base, the venue is slightly too big and it's difficult to get an atmosphere going...

People from Cities A, B, C and D bemoan the lack of atmosphere and start dropping off slowly but surely.

City A's club decide to stick to there guns, booking decent DJs, trying to ride out the storm.

Finally after a few bad nights City As promoters can't afford the venue at a loss so the venue closes, and instead of one decent sized venue with decent music, you end up with a couple more smaller nights popping up for a couple of months at a time whilst 'wannabe' promotors/DJs get it out of there system.

So who's at fault?

City B's promoters for wanting a slice of the cake?

City A's promoters for not changing their formerly successful format?

City C's customers for splitting their attendance instead of being 'loyal' to one club?

Sounds a bit daft but it happens....

[Guest dundeedavie]

Has the majority of the NS scene now become very very safe & unadventurous, are people scared to clear the floor even for one record, & another thing i've been thinking about recently, are the majority of the djs spinning nowadays as knowledgeable as say djs from ten years ago.

yes to the first one and as for knowledge i imagine the dj's from 10/20 years ago wil say they are more knowledgeable and no real way of finding out

I get the feeling that a lot of new djs have a limited knowledge of tunes out there, they certainly know all the big tunes from the last 5 years but do they know stuff from before then? Also on the other side of the coin do the returnee/mid-life crisis djs have the knowledge of the newer tunes & are they even interested?

this has been proved in so many conversations i've had ..it is true on both levels and there is something to be said for knowing your history and the roots of what you play , gives more of an understanding imo

Simon

[vaultofsouler]

City A has a soul night getting a couple of hundred in, drawing in people from city B, C and D as well.

Some of the people attending from City B see quite a few people from their area in attendance and decide that they could put on a night in their city and not have to travel quite so far for a night out.

The Soul night at City A loses about a sixth of its regular 'punters' in one fell swoop.

City C is inbetween city A and B, so many of the people from that city decide to alternate between the venues each month as "City A will always be on next month", causing a further loss.

City A's venue is now down to just over 50% of it's regular customer base, the venue is slightly too big and it's difficult to get an atmosphere going...

People from Cities A, B, C and D bemoan the lack of atmosphere and start dropping off slowly but surely.

City A's club decide to stick to there guns, booking decent DJs, trying to ride out the storm.

Finally after a few bad nights City As promoters can't afford the venue at a loss so the venue closes, and instead of one decent sized venue with decent music, you end up with a couple more smaller nights popping up for a couple of months at a time whilst 'wannabe' promotors/DJs get it out of there system.

So who's at fault?

City B's promoters for wanting a slice of the cake?

City A's promoters for not changing their formerly successful format?

City C's customers for splitting their attendance instead of being 'loyal' to one club?

Sounds a bit daft but it happens....

Not so daft Joe.... sounds very familiar....

[Mark Bicknell]

Sorry state of affairs all this I reckon, the so called bubble has certainly burst big time, the current scene on the whole is a shadow of what it once was, more venues than you can shake a stick at and very few good ones, this constant barrage of we play what the punters and the dance floor wants is a huge kop out and an easy route to constantly flog to death, far too many people who think they know better and judging by this thread they clearly don't, I'm sure many people are getting to the stage that they can't really be bothered with it all anymore, in a lot of cases it's like many of these locally based events have reverted back to the very basics of club/early Northern Soul culture, it's almost like the youth club culture of old musically at least, I would suggest you could pipe the music and feed these gigs from one central location with the same basic playlist and it would surfice, some DJ's are simply not required at these events which makes a total nonsense of the whole ethos of being a forward thinking current scene, it's a joke to be honest.

Keep on clashing and you will simply drive it into the ground, trouble is I don't think there will be that many people to salvage the scene as when it popped in the early 80's/90's, sorry but I don't want to hear The Velvets, Vibrations, Sandi Sheldon etc. etc. anymore, is it me or do some people never get bored with these tunes and others and low key, half empty, pretend Northern Soul events? clash all you like, drive the wedge even further, 'Keep The Faith' if there is any left you deserve it....lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Mark Bicknell

[Steve L]

Going back to the boring playlists part of this thread & going slightly off tangent, has anyone just received through the post JM's half price list.

Now this is not a plug for John's list because he hardly needs my backing as the list sells itself BUT there's some incredible underplayed bargains on that list.

Simon

Sure is Simon just bought a few myself

[Bazza]

Sorry state of affairs all this I reckon, the so called bubble has certainly burst big time, the current scene on the whole is a shadow of what it once was, more venues than you can shake a stick at and very few good ones, this constant barrage of we play what the punters and the dance floor wants is a huge kop out and an easy route to constantly flog to death, far too many people who think they know better and judging by this thread they clearly don't, I'm sure many people are getting to the stage that they can't really be bothered with it all anymore, in a lot of cases it's like many of these locally based events have reverted back to the very basics of club/early Northern Soul culture, it's almost like the youth club culture of old musically at least, I would suggest you could pipe the music and feed these gigs from one central location with the same basic playlist and it would surfice, some DJ's are simply not required at these events which makes a total nonsense of the whole ethos of being a forward thinking current scene, it's a joke to be honest.

Keep on clashing and you will simply drive it into the ground, trouble is I don't think there will be that many people to salvage the scene as when it popped in the early 80's/90's, sorry but I don't want to hear The Velvets, Vibrations, Sandi Sheldon etc. etc. anymore, is it me or do some people never get bored with these tunes and others and low key, half empty, pretend Northern Soul events? clash all you like, drive the wedge even further, 'Keep The Faith' if there is any left you deserve it....lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Oh Dear Mark......who do you mean....so have you got the answer.....not like you to have a bit of an attitude

Bazza

[Guest Soultown andy]

Maybe a period of overkill is a good thing as it will get rid of most of the bad clubs with a bit of luck,i hope the vision of smaller one room clubs for the future isnt going to happen as that will make it very difficult to attract fresh bods to the scene,or is that what some want.Have to say there are plenty of 2 and 3 room clubs still thriveing regardless of what competition is on the same nite.

[Guest BBB]

I think the amount of Venues on the same night has got to be a factor..more so in my area sheffield notts mansfield...but I also think there's too many DJ's playing it to safe ,same stuff being played at most of the Local'ish Do's

Never thought I would feel like this but...I am getting bored with many of the Do's

My thoughts on the format for a Soul do are this.........

you have got to play a few classics....no doubt about it......but you must also play the rare underplayed stuff...does'nt matter if they clear the floor...does'nt mean the punters are not enjoying em...and a some R&B (for me ) and a few modern for some

you dont need to be a genius to see this...and yet most venues cant seem to grasp it

its the "must fill the floor same old safe tunes" type DJ's who are doing the most damage

Bazza

Hi Bazza

Interesting thread this one, look what happened at last couple of Pilsley nights, one when I played Bernard Williams "Needless To Say" for Kev (not a rear tunes - but cleared the floor) then last month again played something different like William Bell and Grover Mitchell (again not rear stuff) and some people called it Banarama music, but I feel that you do need to mix it up and not to play the same old same old because just because a few people may complain on here does not mean they speak for everyone.

(Hope your not getting bored with us)

Barry Cooper

[Bazza]

Maybe a period of overkill is a good thing as it will get rid of most of the bad clubs with a bit of luck,i hope the vision of smaller one room clubs for the future isnt going to happen as that will make it very difficult to attract fresh bods to the scene,or is that what some want.Have to say there are plenty of 2 and 3 room clubs still thriveing regardless of what competition is on the same nite.

I must admit I think this is the future..when I was a kid I wanted 100mph stuff, easy to do, these days im to old for that, I want to hear a few classics and some R&B and some newies/underplayed tunes, must be a nightmare to try and promote 2 or 3 roomed event,

Bazza