Overkill A Problem ?

[Mike]

Mick h makes a point with a few remarks in the lookback thread on last weekend notts union event

is this the sign of the times .venues closing due to the overkill.new ones starting up people thinking they can replace them ?

we ask ourselves is the scene going to kill it,s self due to the overkill to many venues running the same night ?splitting the crowd ?

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=55082

valid point ?

myself would say yep

good talk point for a monday?

thoughts?

[Bazza]

I think the amount of Venues on the same night has got to be a factor..more so in my area sheffield notts mansfield...but I also think there's too many DJ's playing it to safe ,same stuff being played at most of the Local'ish Do's

Never thought I would feel like this but...I am getting bored with many of the Do's

My thoughts on the format for a Soul do are this.........

you have got to play a few classics....no doubt about it......but you must also play the rare underplayed stuff...does'nt matter if they clear the floor...does'nt mean the punters are not enjoying em...and a some R&B (for me ) and a few modern for some

you dont need to be a genius to see this...and yet most venues cant seem to grasp it

its the "must fill the floor same old safe tunes" type DJ's who are doing the most damage

Bazza

[Guest krawen]

I think the amount of Venues on the same night has got to be a factor..more so in my area sheffield notts mansfield...but I also think there's too many DJ's playing it to safe ,same stuff being played at most of the Local'ish Do's

Never thought I would feel like this but...I am getting bored with many of the Do's

My thoughts on the format for a Soul do are this.........

you have got to play a few classics....no doubt about it......but you must also play the rare underplayed stuff...does'nt matter if they clear the floor...does'nt mean the punters are not enjoying em...and a some R&B (for me ) and a few modern for some

you dont need to be a genius to see this...and yet most venues cant seem to grasp it

its the "must fill the floor same old safe tunes" type DJ's who are doing the most damage

Bazza

Morning Bazza,

As you know this has always been the policy at Annesley, but you still get people moaning if they don't hear the music they prefer all night !

Steve B

[spot]

Mick h makes a point with a few remarks in the lookback thread on last weekend notts union event.

valid point ?

myself would say yep

good talk point for a monday?

thoughts?

Mike,

I've put a comment on with my review of the night but just to reiterate; yes it's a valid point but I think it affects the Oldies venues more than the Rare ones, as most people have lots of the classic oldies even if they are only boots or reissues, however the cost involved in collecting rare 45's is often prohibitive & obviously hard to come by, making it a smaller band of followers & devotees to go around but making them more determined to hear the music wherever it might be. I think this time of year it's the annual summer holidays & kids summer holidays that can keep the punters away (parents & grandparents) to some extent & lets not forget last weekend was a Bank holiday weekend & we did three venues that weekend, so it's a drain on the finances , which is probably why attendances are down this weekend.Finally we could do with encouraging more new young blood onto the scene so that as us wrinklies start to break down & can't be repaired back to dance mode then there is another generation to pass the baton onto.

Just my thoughts on the matter, take care & be safe,

Spot.

[Bazza]

Morning Bazza,

As you know this has always been the policy at Annesley, but you still get people moaning if they don't hear the music they prefer all night !

Steve B

Yes Steve...Annesley ...is a bright light in all this darkness...I can only think of a couple that come close. as you say ,you will never please everybody all night,cant be done , but as long as they hear a few of the tunes they like...they will go home happy

Bazza

[Guest krawen]

Yes Steve...Annesley ...is a bright light in all this darkness...I can only think of a couple that come close. as you say ,you will never please everybody all night,cant be done , but as long as they hear a few of the tunes they like...they will go home happy

Bazza

I noticed on the events guide there's a new night starting up in Ollerton this Saturday Bazza. If it hadn't been on the same night as us I would have had a run up as I've got a soft spot for Ollerton as I worked down Ollerton Colliery for nearly 10 years till it shut in 1994

Steve B

Edited September 3, 2007 by krawen

[Guest Simon]

I think the amount of Venues on the same night has got to be a factor..more so in my area sheffield notts mansfield...but I also think there's too many DJ's playing it to safe ,same stuff being played at most of the Local'ish Do's

Never thought I would feel like this but...I am getting bored with many of the Do's

My thoughts on the format for a Soul do are this.........

you have got to play a few classics....no doubt about it......but you must also play the rare underplayed stuff...does'nt matter if they clear the floor...does'nt mean the punters are not enjoying em...and a some R&B (for me ) and a few modern for some

you dont need to be a genius to see this...and yet most venues cant seem to grasp it

its the "must fill the floor same old safe tunes" type DJ's who are doing the most damage

Bazza

I agree totally with pretty much what you've written although i don't feel there's any need for R & B or Modern particularly, the dos that have always worked for me have been ones that predominantly play 6ts mid-uptempo dancers with thought, imagination & passion.

Some of the playlists on here i've read recently have had this & look very good, some are utterly depressing with playlists that are nothing but records that have been big over the last few years & as safe as houses.

I agree you must have some of these tunes in there but you've got to have at least a few tunes that are interesting & a bit of a surprise otherwise you might as well just play a NS greatest hits cd.

Just to put my money where my mouth is i've checked my last playlist i posted up, yes they're all records that are known, yes there's nothing mindblowing in there but at least i tried to play a few things that i don't think get spun that regularly:

The United Four - She's putting you on @ Harthon

Major Lance - The Matador @ Okeh

The Soul Notes - How long will it last @ Way Out

Grover Mitchell with St. John & The Cardinals - Take your time & love me @ Josie

The Belles - Words can't explain @ Mirwoood

The Fuller Brothers - Moaning, groaning & crying @ Soul Clock

Martha & The Vandellas - Wild one @ Gordy

The Shirelles - No doubt about it @ Scepter

The Fabulous Denos - I've enjoyed being loved by you @ King WDJ

Jimmy James - A man like me @ Stateside

Bob & Earl - The Sissy @ Chene

Billy Butler - Come over to my side @ Brunswick

As i said yes they are all very well known but i've never particularly heard them out in their droves, that's all i really want to hear out at venues good NS with at least a tad of imagination.

Time to give a rest to Sam Dees (LFYB), Pat & the Blenders, Charades, Vibrations (CYM), Sam Fletcher, 5 Royales, Seven Souls, Tony Galla etc.

If you must play them though at least mix them in with a few interesting & well thought out things to make it at least half interesting, all IMHO of course.

Simon

[Bazza]

I noticed on the events guide there's a new night starting up in Ollerton this Saturday Bazza.

Yep....Big Ray and Mary are doing It...Ill not bother.....Rays a 100mph all night type...not for me

Bazza

[Guest in town Mikey]

Too many do's are indeed a problem, as has been stated many times, there are only so many people to go around.

Maybe an answer would be for nights to be bi-monthly rather than every month, keeping people keen to go. I believe it helped an awful lot to retain the Capitol mystique.

[Guest moggy]

Went to Keele on Sataurday the only allnighter on last weekend I think !

Would say around 250-300 in attendance

I enjoyed the night but can only assume the low turn out was in some way due to many other venues running also

So would say yes, there is an over kill

Its like one big vicious circle

No local night in an area so someone starts one up

Some in attendence start thinking !

Ive got records as good if not better, so why dont I try it (be a DJ)

Next thing you know, venue starts up local to the original, original venue ends due to lack of numbers and so on & so on, there is only so many people to go round, and its a shame when good venues have to close there doors because there original packed out events, then have to start competing with others and numbers get shared out and dwindle

Nothing worse than being in a place with a good music policy and no one there to create an atmosphere

[Guest in town Mikey]

Of course the economist in me says, Mortgage rates have gone up, and will be biting many people.

[Sean Hampsey]

I've recently started a similar thread to this on a Modern Soul forum, Mike, where attendances just aint wot they used to be!

It seems that the current problem affects all strands of the scene.

Turn back the clock 25+ years, there were very few DJ's around (who could hold their own) and even fewer promoters.

The last 8 or so years though has seen a rise in popularity of the UK Soul scene (mainly via returnees) and, now that some of these lads and lasses have 'a bit more about them' everyone (it seems) wants to try their hand at DJ'ing, promoting or both.

Now as we appear to be in an overkill situation (in many counties, but certainly not all) the choice on a weekend is far too great, diluting the crowd and reducing attendances at many events.

Net result, nights that rarely live up to the hype or expectations, lacking in atmosphere and creating disappointment for all concerned.

As a consequence, the disillusioned punter believes that he can do better, and naturally, decides to give it a go himself... further fragmenting the potential audience.

It's an inevitable, unfortunate, cycle of events, that can only be filtered out through time and natural selection.

Personally, I'd rather see (or attend) a small room environment with a buzz and 50 odd punters that are up for it, than a mega room spectacular with everyone rattling around a three quarters empty dancefloor!

I guess the future is highly likely to be... reduced numbers, better quality venues and more of a listening / social environment (at least for us over 50's). However, I don't know what I'd make of that sort of set up if I was a youngster looking for a good old fashioned rave up!

Had good nights up at Thorne and Qube recently and heard great reports about such venues as Lifeline. The cream will always rise to the top, however, every venue and venture has a lifespan... and even good things don't last forever!

Sean

[Guest]

Another scenario perhaps?

Group of soulies - no longer do all-nighters don't travel any more decide to put on a little local do. Multiply that a few times and you have overkill.

Derek

[Supercorsa]

If you go out as seldom as myself, then overkill isn't an issue.

What I do find difficult to understand is when promoters put on an event on the same evening/night in the same town (or even 20 mile radius). In the past year this seems to be happening more and more. There has been a case of this recently in Bournemouth and last year Wellingborough.

Surely this will just make attendances at both events smaller than they could have been. Which in turn makes those that have attended go home with a poor impression of either event. Thus making them reluctant to return to the next one. The main problem when two events being on at the same time is I feel putting punters in awkward positions. For instance they could be friends with both promoters and so instead of upsetting either of them they do not attend any event. Another issue I believe is that people are reluctant to travel. I know there are individuals who still travel the length and breadth of the country attending allnighters, but would they travel as far for a soul night? Then again is the allnighter crowd different to the soulnight crowd?

As for what music gets played, that is down to the DJ's and those discussions can go on and on. You can't please all the people all of the time. Also as Bazza has stated he knows that the Ollerton promoter is a 100mph type, so without attending he has come to the conclusion that the night will not be to his liking, therefore it is unlikely he will attend (Bazza is entitled to his opinion and I have no qualms with him over it, just using it to show an example). How many other events suffer because of preconceived ideas? Rare soul event....load of chin strokers nobody dancing, Oldies event....loads of dancers in fancy dress, but predictable and repetitive playlists, R&B event load of old clip clop banjo music that no one can dance to, Modern event - load of old disco sh1te we want 60's!

These are just my thoughts on the subject.

[Sean Hampsey]

Another scenario perhaps?

Group of soulies - no longer do all-nighters don't travel any more decide to put on a little local do. Multiply that a few times and you have overkill.

Derek

Spot on Derek.

And far more succinct than my version of the same point!

Sean

[Dave Moore]

I've recently started a similar thread to this on a Modern Soul forum, Mike, where attendances just aint wot they used to be!

It seems that the current problem affects all strands of the scene.

Turn back the clock 25+ years, there were very few DJ's around (who could hold their own) and even fewer promoters.

The last 8 or so years though has seen a rise in popularity of the UK Soul scene (mainly via returnees) and, now that some of these lads and lasses have 'a bit more about them' everyone (it seems) wants to try their hand at DJ'ing, promoting or both.

Now as we appear to be in an overkill situation (in many counties, but certainly not all) the choice on a weekend is far too great, diluting the crowd and reducing attendances at many events.

Net result, nights that rarely live up to the hype or expectations, lacking in atmosphere and creating disappointment for all concerned.

As a consequence, the disillusioned punter believes that he can do better, and naturally, decides to give it a go himself... further fragmenting the potential audience.

It's an inevitable, unfortunate, cycle of events, that can only be filtered out through time and natural selection.

Personally, I'd rather see (or attend) a small room environment with a buzz and 50 odd punters that are up for it, than a mega room spectacular with everyone rattling around a three quarters empty dancefloor!

I guess the future is highly likely to be... reduced numbers, better quality venues and more of a listening / social environment (at least for us over 50's). However, I don't know what I'd make of that sort of set up if I was a youngster looking for a good old fashioned rave up!

Had good nights up at Thorne and Qube recently and heard great reports about such venues as Lifeline. The cream will always rise to the top, however, every venue and venture has a lifespan... and even good things don't last forever!

Sean

Anyone else notice the irony of the ad at then bottom of sean's post.

[Bazza]

Another scenario perhaps?

Group of soulies - no longer do all-nighters don't travel any more decide to put on a little local do. Multiply that a few times and you have overkill.

Derek

I for my sins have considered setting up a local do'...I know of a smashing Venue...landlords an old friend of mine and would be happy to get the Beer money......probably just make thing worse tho'

Bazza

[Guest NASHEE]

I think intolerance of others styles of music is as much to do with it as anything.

I was quite happy going along to venues where allsorts were played...a little modern...a little R&B a few classic oldies etc etc...Cottons...Blackburn & Wilton in the 90's all had something for everyone. IMO

Now...if youre into oldies..you go to an oldies do...if you're into modern...you go to a modern do...if you're into R&B...you go to an R&B do...if your'e into rare and newies...again you pick your venue according to your taste...It's a lose lose situation...Say a promoter books enough R&B dj's to keep me happy...5 of his regulars will stop going because they dont like crappy R&B.

For me...the way forward is multiple room venues..When I go to Middleton, I can still see my buddies...no matter what style of music the're into...and as a bonus, nip into one of the other rooms and see what else is going on....I've seen posts on here where folk have said that they nipped into the 'Backbeat' room...only to be pleasantly surprised by what they've heard...OK..maybe not when I'm on but you see my point...

At Sheffield last week, I had to walk through the main room to have a smoke...and in the process, heard some great tunes.

Captain of Middletons 'Backbeat' room Joe Dutton has it pretty much sussed (don't tell him tho... or he'll have to buy a bigger hat)....Every month, dj's..the times they play & the style of music they play is sorted beforehand ensuring that,

A..there is a good flow from set to set...

B There is no overkill of any one style and

C..The room does not become stale or predictable.

The reward...plenty of happy punters.

I don't have answers...and before anyone growls...the oppinions stated here, are all my own

Linda

x

[Sean Hampsey]

Anyone else notice the irony of the ad at then bottom of sean's post.

Aha!

Yes Dave, I did!

And I can assure you... it was deliberate!

The 'Just Soul' idea is in its infancy at the moment.

A quality venue. Small room... and certainly NOT for those wanting an old fashioned rave up... or a stream of Northern Soul classics.

I doubt very much that it would compete with any of the events attended by your average Soul Sourcer.

But thanks for the plug!

[Guest]

I for my sins have considered setting up a local do'...I know of a smashing Venue...landlords an old friend of mine and would be happy to get the Beer money......probably just make thing worse tho'

Bazza

I didn't make it clear in that post i was trying to say that some of those little do's are started for a social reason rather than to undermine anything else.

However i'm sure a few are started purely to undermine other venues as well.

Personally being an avid reader of playlists on this site there are precious few that i have read recently that would entice me to travel across the road far less across the country.

Derek

[Steve L]

I read Micks comments on the Union thread with interest and I agree completely with what he has said. Now some people might think this ironic as I am a co promoter of a soul night which is on the same night as the Union and is only 14 miles away.

I felt like I had to clarify a few things on this issue as we are obviously one of the nights in question but please bear in mind that I'm not in the habit of stirring things up or getting into an argument over these things and there are no ulterior motives behind anything.

Also bear in mind that a lot of people on here come out with "wannabe DJ's" etc when talking about this subject and I can assure you that neither me, kev, dean or Garry are wannabe anythings at the Attic.

When we started out in July 06 the only monthly night on "locally" that we knew about was Awsworth and we felt that they we far enough away from us and we wouldn't cause them any problems as it was a well estabished night.

The Brit was running bi-monthly at this stage but having been ourselves with knew the emphasis was on "oldies"

So we chose our night carefully to avoid clashes as much as possible and set out to provide what we thought was something different in the Mansfield area ie what we feel are underplayed soul records. We've made a reasonable succes of it so far but thats probably down to luck more than judgement.

Anyway without getting bogged down with detail the point I'm trying to make is that we didnt set out to rival anyone or to take over anyones mantle. We just wanted to fill a niche in our area. When the Brit went monthy and back to the original union music policy we talked about moving our night but that wasnt possible for a variety of reasons.

Finally I'd just like to add that I hope the Union club carries on providing a great soul night and if the Attic wasnt on all 4 of us would definately be there.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Steve L

[Guest dundeedavie]

i wrote an article a couple of years back regarding this and my standpoint hasn't changed.... there is only two reasons to start a new do

1. geography .... in that there is nothing in your area that appeals

2. playlist .... the stuff you are playing is sufficiently different to any other in your area

Davie

[Simon M]

i wrote an article a couple of years back regarding this and my standpoint hasn't changed.... there is only two reasons to start a new do

1. geography .... in that there is nothing in your area that appeals

2. playlist .... the stuff you are playing is sufficiently different to any other in your area

Davie

There is maybe another reason Davie .. If you want to start Djaying !?

[Citizen P]

Yes it is difficult in a one roomer to keep everbody happy, although I agree that just because the dancefloor isn't full doesn't mean people aren't enjoying it, however you will still find that a full dancefloor still equals a "good" night in your average punter's( hate that term BTW) eyes.

We try to mix it up a bit by spinning a few lesser knowns, underplayed etc. but you do have to fill the floor sometimes, which is why, to pick up on an earlier thead, we give the primetime spot's to the guests,which as I've said before, is why they were booked in the first place.

ATB

Tony

[Guest dundeedavie]

There is maybe another reason Davie .. If you want to start Djaying !?

i said 2 reasons why you should .... not why people do lol.

i get less gigs now than i did before we started basics haha ... though admittedely i was still doing soul gigs in those days

[Simon M]

i said 2 reasons why you should .... not why people do lol.

i get less gigs now than i did before we started basics haha ... though admittedely i was still doing soul gigs in those days

Yes I think your right , but on some occasions when the reasons are combined. ( As when myself and Ray Phillips started to promote and and Dj at Modern Soul gigs in the south east late 1983 ) It's a very good idea !

However if you want to DJ with a load of old tunes , in an area that has a couple of other events you need to at least communicate with the other events promoters about dates !? or maybe just forget it ?

Edited September 3, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest Bearsy]

I agree totally with pretty much what you've written although i don't feel there's any need for R & B or Modern particularly, the dos that have always worked for me have been ones that predominantly play 6ts mid-uptempo dancers with thought, imagination & passion.

Some of the playlists on here i've read recently have had this & look very good, some are utterly depressing with playlists that are nothing but records that have been big over the last few years & as safe as houses.

I agree you must have some of these tunes in there but you've got to have at least a few tunes that are interesting & a bit of a surprise otherwise you might as well just play a NS greatest hits cd.

Just to put my money where my mouth is i've checked my last playlist i posted up, yes they're all records that are known, yes there's nothing mindblowing in there but at least i tried to play a few things that i don't think get spun that regularly:

The United Four - She's putting you on @ Harthon

Major Lance - The Matador @ Okeh

The Soul Notes - How long will it last @ Way Out

Grover Mitchell with St. John & The Cardinals - Take your time & love me @ Josie

The Belles - Words can't explain @ Mirwoood

The Fuller Brothers - Moaning, groaning & crying @ Soul Clock

Martha & The Vandellas - Wild one @ Gordy

The Shirelles - No doubt about it @ Scepter

The Fabulous Denos - I've enjoyed being loved by you @ King WDJ

Jimmy James - A man like me @ Stateside

Bob & Earl - The Sissy @ Chene

Billy Butler - Come over to my side @ Brunswick

As i said yes they are all very well known but i've never particularly heard them out in their droves, that's all i really want to hear out at venues good NS with at least a tad of imagination.

Time to give a rest to Sam Dees (LFYB), Pat & the Blenders, Charades, Vibrations (CYM), Sam Fletcher, 5 Royales, Seven Souls, Tony Galla etc.

If you must play them though at least mix them in with a few interesting & well thought out things to make it at least half interesting, all IMHO of course.

Simon

I do tend to agree with you Simon but the other side of the coin is, i got all them tunes and when i dont play them always get asked to play them so whats not good for you is definately good for others, also i have a couple of those in your play list and at the wrong venue they will clear the dance floor and is that what its all about,

the hardest bit is getting the right balance and knowing your venue and its policy to what suits that venue best and i agree then you got to slip a couple in they might not know if they flow with the rest of your set.

its all about balance and having belief in your tunes and sometimes a bit of balls to try something a bit different and being a bit different from the other DJs to keep not just your own set fresh but not being too predictable either

Bearsy

[Chalky]

I don't think playlists comes into the arguement in my opinion, or should I say they are irrelevant.

At the end of the day it's all comes under the Northern Soul umbrella and putting a venue on in the same town/city as an established venue, whatever the policy, on the same night is pretty thoughless IMHO. Like I also said it often makes you wonder what the scene is coming to and where it's going!

I've said it for a long time there are far too many venues in close proximity all over the country and not enough soulies to go round.

Edited September 3, 2007 by chalky

[Dave Morris]

We've had this overkill problem lately down here in Bournemouth,but having spoken to a couple of promoters who also run do's we're going to provide each other with dates so that there wont be any more problems.

Having said that I see in December there's already a do on the 1st.Got ours on the 15th so we'll see what happens.I've got my dates sorted for next year so will pass them on and see what happens.

In a town where 99% of the public don't know or care about soul nights you can see what we're up against.

Dave.

[Guest Bearsy]

over kill is not a problem in Kent, 1 event every 2 months in centralish Kent and another 40 miles away in Ramsgate and that is always on in the month inbetween,

in other words 1 event a month at most,

is that a good thing or not

downside is a lot of travelling for a weekly fix

[Jimmy A]

I think the amount of Venues on the same night has got to be a factor..more so in my area sheffield notts mansfield...but I also think there's too many DJ's playing it to safe ,same stuff being played at most of the Local'ish Do's

Never thought I would feel like this but...I am getting bored with many of the Do's

My thoughts on the format for a Soul do are this.........

you have got to play a few classics....no doubt about it......but you must also play the rare underplayed stuff...does'nt matter if they clear the floor...does'nt mean the punters are not enjoying em...and a some R&B (for me ) and a few modern for some

you dont need to be a genius to see this...and yet most venues cant seem to grasp it

its the "must fill the floor same old safe tunes" type DJ's who are doing the most damage

Bazza

hi bazza, you say in the above "but I also think there's too many DJ's playing it to safe ,same stuff being played at most of the Local'ish Do's Never thought I would feel like this but...I am getting bored with many of the Do's

been saying this for a good two years now,you can say it till you are blue in the face but nobody listens.one of the reasons why im virtually jacking it in,i would sooner go down the pub then go to some dos now.its not about hearing a certain tune or just listening to the kind of soul you like i.e RnB,modern etc its about a good mix which is whats missing

[Guest Simon]

I don't think playlists comes into the arguement in my opinion, or should I say they are irrelevant.

I'd have to disagree with that Chalky, i know a lot of people who ain't going out or travelling to NS dos because they're bored stiff with the predictability of the music.

Simon

[Guest Simon]

I do tend to agree with you Simon but the other side of the coin is, i got all them tunes and when i dont play them always get asked to play them so whats not good for you is definately good for others, the hardest bit is getting the right balance and knowing your venue and its policy to what suits that venue best and i agree then you got to slip a couple in they might not know if they flow with the rest of your set.

its all about balance and having belief in your tunes and sometimes a bit of balls to try something a bit different and being a bit different from the other DJs to keep not just your own set fresh but not being too predictable either

Bearsy

[Chalky]

I'd have to disagree with that Chalky, i know a lot of people who ain't going out or travelling to NS dos because they're bored stiff with the predictability of the music.

Simon

yes but if there are two promoters in the same town/city whats the point of both promotions on the same night? irrespective of the playlists/music policy. Surely it would be better to try and maximise your attendance by not being on the same night. Common sense as well if you ask me.

The arguement that "we have a different music policy to you" does wash with me either, it's all northern soul/rare soul at the end of the day. Granted give soulies a choice but does it have to be on the same night? I think not when there are three other weekends in the month.

Edited September 3, 2007 by chalky

[Citizen P]

I'd have to disagree with that Chalky, i know a lot of people who ain't going out or travelling to NS dos because they're bored stiff with the predictability of the music.

Simon

There are still plenty going though that are still more than happy to listen to the same old over and over,and if you have the audacity to try something differant let you know in no uncertain terms

a prime example, a few months back nI followed a DJ who had played,about 2 before the end of his set,

Wade in The Water. i gets on first request- WITW- Well said I he played it 2 records ago did you miss it?

Oh No, came the reply-I heard it, but I like it

Tony

[Guest Bearsy]

There are still plenty going though that are still more than happy to listen to the same old over and over,and if you have the audacity to try something differant let you know in no uncertain terms

a prime example, a few months back nI followed a DJ who had played,about 2 before the end of his set,

Wade in The Water. i gets on first request- WITW- Well said I he played it 2 records ago did you miss it?

Oh No, came the reply-I heard it, but I like it

Tony

more like treading water

[Simon M]

yes but if there are two promoters in the same town/city whats the point of both promotions on the same night? irrespective of the playlists/music policy. Surely it would be better to try and maximise your attendance by not being on the same night. Common sense as well if you ask me.

The arguement that "we have a different music policy to you" does wash with me either, it's all northern soul at the end of the day. Granted give soulies a choice but does it have to be on the same night? I think not when there are three other weekends in the month.

I think music policy is the cause of the splinter effect on the soul scene ( and not just the NS scene) therefore there's more nights . Oldies versus Fresh tunes , R&b versus later 60's , 70's and 80's to Y2k . Vocal house to Deep .. etc etc . Theres been so many genres played at all-niters it had to fragment really ?!

Edited September 3, 2007 by Simon M

[Chalky]

I think music policy is the cause of the splinter effect on the soul scene ( and not just the NS scene) therefore there's more nights . Oldies versus Fresh tunes , R&b versus later 60,s 70's and 80's to Y2k . Vocal house to Deep .. etc etc . Theres been so many genres played at all-niters it had to fragment really ?!

but if I was looking to promote a venue, I would just look to see if anything else on the night I wanted and avoid any possible clash, regardless of the music policy of other venues. I for one wouldn't promote a venue on the same night as an established venue, I would look for another date.

Even oldies venues still need fresher sounds, you just have to look at some of the stuff played at oldies venues, even if it does take 20 years in some cases

The good newer sounds still trickle down to the oldies venues and without the newies venues this wouldn't happen.

[Guest Bearsy]

but if I was looking to promote a venue, I would just look to see if anything else on the night I wanted and avoid any possible clash, regardless of the music policy of other venues. I for one wouldn't promote a venue on the same night as an established venue, I would look for another date.

Even oldies venues still need fresher sounds, you just have to look at some of the stuff played at oldies venues, even if it does take 20 years in some cases

The good newer sounds still trickle down to the oldies venues and without the newies venues this wouldn't happen.

Totally agree with that post Chalky, its common sense really

[Simon M]

but if I was looking to promote a venue, I would just look to see if anything else on the night I wanted and avoid any possible clash, regardless of the music policy of other venues. I for one wouldn't promote a venue on the same night as an established venue, I would look for another date.

Even oldies venues still need fresher sounds, you just have to look at some of the stuff played at oldies venues, even if it does take 20 years in some cases

The good newer sounds still trickle down to the oldies venues and without the newies venues this wouldn't happen.

Yes very true , but the big overall question is how to bring it all together or just a good % of it . with so many different promoters and dj's pulling in different ways in the North its near impossible

Sean Hamspey looks towards just 50-75 capcity venues now .. Ive got no answers sorry

Edited September 3, 2007 by Simon M

[Chalky]

Yes very true , but the big overall question is how to bring it all together or just a good % of it . with so many different promoters and dj's pulling in different ways in the North . also Sean Hamspey looks towards just 50-75 capcity venues now .. but Ive got no answers sorry

IMO the only way you can try and pull it all together as you say is not too clash. If you constantly clash then you will get fragmentation and soulies preferring one promotion to another....and therefore more politics and arguements causing further fragmentation and splits in the local soul scene.

Maybe if some common sense used then soulies would support all the venues in the area and all would prosper with decent attendances rather than half full venues.

[Mark Bicknell]

Yes very true , but the big overall question is how to bring it all together or just a good % of it . with so many different promoters and dj's pulling in different ways in the North . also Sean Hamspey looks towards just 50-75 capcity venues now .. but Ive got no answers sorry

Nail on head there Simon, I don't think anyone has the answers on this one mate, I suspect more and more people are possibly thinking like me and basically do their own thing or don't really care anymore or go out that much?, all you can try and do is your best when DJ'ing or promoting, quality music should win the day but everything seems to be a little old hat and very cloudy at the present time.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Oggie]

IMO the only way you can try and pull it all together as you say is not too clash. If you constantly clash then you will get fragmentation and soulies preferring one promotion to another....and therefore more politics and arguements causing further fragmentation and splits in the local soul scene.

Maybe if some common sense used then soulies would support all the venues in the area and all would prosper with decent attendances rather than half full venues.

This was how it was in the Notts/Derby area 7-10 years ago when you had the three A's..Alfreton,Annesley,Awsworth on different nights of the month....they were all rammed and you had to get there early to guarantee getting in!..

Oggie.

[Simon M]

I just hope the so called newies events do survive !! . be it 60's all the way to Y2k .

[Billywhizz]

Of course the economist in me says, Mortgage rates have gone up, and will be biting many people.

Posibly true,since the smoking bands came in allnighters has lost its atmosphere am a non smoker so that does'nt bother me when theres a crowd off people around a table one gets up for a smoke they all go you look around the place is half empty and all a sudden they all pile back in half hour later there back out again.

Cheers Billy

PS.I can remember intrest rates at 18% still went out

[Bazza]

This was how it was in the Notts/Derby area 7-10 years ago when you had the three A's..Alfreton,Annesley,Awsworth on different nights of the month....they were all rammed and you had to get there early to guarantee getting in!..

Oggie.

I was a regular at awsworth...never missed it but then.....it got as tho' I could write down most of the tunes they would play...and at what time......thats why it died....imho....same old same old

Bazza

[Bazm]

but if I was looking to promote a venue, I would just look to see if anything else on the night I wanted and avoid any possible clash, regardless of the music policy of other venues. I for one wouldn't promote a venue on the same night as an established venue, I would look for another date.

Makes very obvious sense Chalky but you wouldn't belive the number of times promoters run nights in this neck of the woods (M6/M62/east lancs corridor) on the same night as big established nights..not only is it negative but self defeatest, they simply dont (or wont) consider the implications of their actions

BazM

[Hold Tight]

but if I was looking to promote a venue, I would just look to see if anything else on the night I wanted and avoid any possible clash, regardless of the music policy of other venues. I for one wouldn't promote a venue on the same night as an established venue, I would look for another date.

Makes very obvious sense Chalky but you wouldn't belive the number of times promoters run nights in this neck of the woods (M6/M62/east lancs corridor) on the same night as big established nights..not only is it negative but self defeatest, they simply dont (or wont) consider the implications of their actions

BazM

Baz, that's exactly why I put the first anniversary night back by two months to avoid clashing with other nights. Mind you one was the 100 club - as you say self defeating even if it was 70 ,miles away its got the drawing power plus I want to go .

Mark.

[good angel]

Posibly true,since the smoking bands came in allnighters has lost its atmosphere am a non smoker so that does'nt bother me when theres a crowd off people around a table one gets up for a smoke they all go you look around the place is half empty and all a sudden they all pile back in half hour later there back out again.

Cheers Billy

PS.I can remember intrest rates at 18% still went out

Yes you are right Billy,about the smoking thing,but for us none smokers its better we dont stink of smoke in the morning,and Iam not coughing up in a morning after a allnighter as well.

On Over kill, I can only speak about allnigters,If there is a big nighter like say Stoke, that affects the other nighters attendance either side of the date of Stoke ive noticed.

Kev

[Guest Oggie]

I was a regular at awsworth...never missed it but then.....it got as tho' I could write down most of the tunes they would play...and at what time......thats why it died....imho....same old same old

Bazza

I remember one incarnation of Awsworth where the promoter became influenced by the type of sounds that were being played at Cotgrave, Mick H's venue prior to the Union club.The underplayed sounds came to Awsworth in a big way,which I thought was fantastic but that view was not shared by many of the oldies only crowd who month by month never returned until the venue was taken over by another promoter and turned into all oldies again.

Oggie.