Tommy Neal -going To A Happening

[Sean Hampsey]

Spot on. Think they must have been on catalogue for a while. Everyone had em in their Red / White original covers.

 

Have nice Red Demo's of both, these days!

 

 

Sean

[Pete Eccles]

Agree Jock. Fantastic!

 

Must have been played on the scene almost from the get go (67/68). It was released in the UK around the same time as Rodger Collins 'She's Looking Good' and I knew of both of those in 1970. In fact everybody round these parts seemed to have both records in their collection. They were both played at the Wheel for sure as I got my copy from a guy who picked up all the Wheel sounds. Was a pretty big record in the local clubs here long before I'd heard of Northern Soul. Still bloody love it!

 

 

Sean

 

The wheel and that era are before my time, however if this thread had proven that Tommy Neal wasn't a play from that era I would've been seriously shocked!!!

[Tlscapital]

It's all very confusing mate and sometimes too much for my head to sort out. Also a bit confused with you suggesting above that Palmer was Palmer James' label when in the Al Greene thread you believed it wasn't.  I personally don't believe either that Palmer belonged to Palmer James. I go with Andy Rix's post in that thread .. post # 21 

 

 

Palmer James was at school with Al Greene and according to Greene "within a year or so of my class". Greene being born in 1946 and saying Palmer James was the same age give or take a year then that would have made him about 19 or 20 when Palmer label started up. In Al Greene's book it certainly doesn't come across as Palmer James being a biggish fish on the Detroit music scene at the time, but more of a "we were rehearsing after school every day"

 

From the below interesting article which goes along with Andy Rix's assessment

 

In 1965, Handleman's / Jay-Kay decided to start their own label and so Palmer Records came into being.

 

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?4799-Pan-American-amp-Jay-Kay-Record-Distributors-Detroit

 

OK Dave, I took RobbK assumption in the Al Green thread (@ 1 time) that Palmer James was then Palmer records founder. Then thats my mistake since that was somehow corrected developing the Al Green(e) topic. I'll edit and correct that right here. Cheers for pin pointing it down. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by tlscapital

[Sebastian]

The yellow Pameline baring the Palmer catalogue number implies that the Palmer was prior.

 

The pink Pameline copy I have never hold to see what the matrix is made of.

 

I believe that the UK Vocalion was actualy released very soon after the USA Vault issue 

I have never seen the pink Pameline but only on the net. I have no idea as to where to place the pink Pameline though. Bootleg ? What’s the matrix showing on that one as stamped, carved… anyone ?

 

Sometimes the second or even third issue are rarer than their predecessor(s) but in this case it makes total sense that it’s the other way around I read. 1) Palmer 2) Pameline (Y) 3) Vault 4) Pameline (P) ???

 

The yellow and pink PAMELINE releases does not have the same cat# as the PALMER issue.

I think the release order is as follows:

PAM 200 - pink PAMELINE

PAM 100 - yellow PAMELINE

(the above might be the other way around as well ofcourse, but I doubt it, the pink issue is a legit Nashville Matrix stamped release with fantastic fidelity)

PALMER 5024 mentioned in Billboard 1967-Aug-12.

VAULT 938 mentioned in Billboard 1967-Dec-16.

UK VOCALLION reviewed in UK Record Mirror 1968-March-09.

 

If the Pameline issues were released between the PALMER and VAULT releases it should at least have recieved a mention in Billboard.

Further to this:

The two PAMELINE issues only mention Ala-King as the publisher.

The PALMER issue mentions Ala King and Palmerton as publishers.

The VAULT issue mentions Ala King and Vault Publishing as publishers.

 

 

Billboard links:

https://books.google.se/books?id=aygEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA18&dq=billboard%20%22tommy%20neal%22&pg=PA18#v=onepage&q=billboard%20%22tommy%20neal%22&f=false

https://books.google.se/books?id=xScEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=RA1-PA69&dq=billboard%20%22tommy%20neal%22&pg=RA1-PA69#v=onepage&q=billboard%20%22tommy%20neal%22&f=false

 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Sebastian

[Tlscapital]

The yellow and pink PAMELINE releases does not have the same cat# as the PALMER issue.

I think the release order is as follows:

PAM 200 - pink PAMELINE

PAM 100 - yellow PAMELINE

(the above might be the other way around as well ofcourse, but I doubt it, the pink issue is a legit Nashville Matrix stamped release with fantastic fidelity)

PALMER 5024 mentioned in Billboard 1967-Aug-12.

VAULT 938 mentioned in Billboard 1967-Dec-16.

UK VOCALLION reviewed in UK Record Mirror 1968-March-09.

 

If the Pameline issues were released between the PALMER and VAULT issues it should at least have recieved a mention in Billboard.

Further to this:

The two PAMELINE issues only mention Ala-King as the publisher.

The PALMER issue mentions Ala King and Palmerton as publishers.

The VAULT issue mentions Ala King and Vault Publishing as publishers.

 

 

Billboard links:

https://books.google.se/books?id=aygEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA18&dq=billboard%20%22tommy%20neal%22&pg=PA18#v=onepage&q=billboard%20%22tommy%20neal%22&f=false

https://books.google.se/books?id=xScEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=RA1-PA69&dq=billboard%20%22tommy%20neal%22&pg=RA1-PA69#v=onepage&q=billboard%20%22tommy%20neal%22&f=false

 

Thanks for that Sebastian, I really appreciate those factual hints. So indeed august 1967 for the Palmer then. Finally it's established (always 1968 in discographies). The fact that the Pameline credit only the Ala-king for the publisher could be for the presumed reasons with the Palmerton deal failing in the process. Then if there's no mention in the Billboard reviews for the Pameline issue, where does it count if it's before or after the Palmer edition ? All the same, it was a Richard "Popcorn" Wilye "independent" release I understood. He needed to make some sale on it. He wanted to HIT it while it was still hot and making the buzz in the region. If he felt that the people at Palmerton were buzzy with other matters, he couldn't afford to let this one die for some executives worries and so must have talked into them and got all the materials to press quickly his first Pameline record. That's how I understand it. 

[nickp]

I know what people mean about struggling to hit that note, however , personally I think that is one of the elements which make this record such an iconic track.

[Mick Sway]

Nahh??

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOMMY-NEIL-GOING-TO-A-HAPPENING-VOCALION/301273030375?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23983%26meid%3D153b77848e3e460888387fdf7b452ae8%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D9421%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D151382428547

[billb]

Nahh??

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOMMY-NEIL-GOING-TO-A-HAPPENING-VOCALION/301273030375?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23983%26meid%3D153b77848e3e460888387fdf7b452ae8%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D9421%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D151382428547

 

Wow, what's happened there, £20 - £40 depending on condition I would have thought?

[Guest]

Nahh??

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOMMY-NEIL-GOING-TO-A-HAPPENING-VOCALION/301273030375?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23983%26meid%3D153b77848e3e460888387fdf7b452ae8%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D9421%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D151382428547

I think someone is messing about there Mick!

[El Corol]

No mention of the Spaceland version.

 

TLscapital said on the "vocal vs instrumental" thread:

 

"I'm not in the known, but 'I belong to you' sounds like a fake thing to me, like made for the Northern scene. With the tapes, licences and so on. It never sounded right to my ears and it has no early 7T's original release. I always assumed that way. Am I wrong or right here ?"

 

 

My question is were these vocals cut in the 60's and kept in the can or were they cut in the 70's to add to the backing tracks?

[Tlscapital]

No mention of the Spaceland version.

 

TLscapital said on the "vocal vs instrumental" thread:

 

"I'm not in the known, but 'I belong to you' sounds like a fake thing to me, like made for the Northern scene. With the tapes, licences and so on. It never sounded right to my ears and it has no early 7T's original release. I always assumed that way. Am I wrong or right here ?"

 

 

My question is were these vocals cut in the 60's and kept in the can or were they cut in the 70's to add to the backing tracks?

Ahah ! Another quirky tune indeed ! I never had that Goldmine compilation with those dodgy selections. A friend of mine did put it on a tape for me and how was I disapointed back then. So I always presumed (wrongly maybe) that were made by and for the northern people. And if ever they were not, they could have been left on the shelves for ever more IMHO. 

[Guest]

The vocal of The Gallop is as bad as that Batiste bird wailing away to Bari Track!   

[Mellorful]

The strangest thing of all is how it ever got released, one of the worst vocals you'll ever hear

I understand you are a man who prefers instrumentals (eg Luther Ingram exus track rather than if its all the same to you babe) so in the circumstances I understand you point of view. However, Popcorn was a proper producer so I suspect he was happy with the vocals and hey turned out as intended, with a rough edge rather than silky smooth.

[Swifty]

How much would a Vault W/D set me back ?  Wish I hadn't sold my green issue a couple of years back for £15 

 

Swifty

[Tlscapital]

I'd say 40 £ for the Vault issue and 75 £ for a demo or something like that. Minty that is. 

[Guest Dave Ward]

I have this on black UK Vocalion, had it since an older mod gave it me, with the centre pushed out at the youth club when I was aged 13. I still have it. never play it. You can't polish a turd. No matter what colour the label is.

[Ted Massey]

Certainly played in the Birmingham area on release remember Haig at the Plaza in handsworth playing it

[Pete S]

I understand you are a man who prefers instrumentals (eg Luther Ingram exus track rather than if its all the same to you babe) so in the circumstances I understand you point of view. However, Popcorn was a proper producer so I suspect he was happy with the vocals and hey turned out as intended, with a rough edge rather than silky smooth.

 

No, I prefer one or two instrumentals!

[cementman]

Certainly played in the Birmingham area on release remember Haig at the Plaza in handsworth playing it

Definitely played in Liverpool 68-69, Mardi Gras club in Mount Pleasant

[Mellorful]

No, I prefer one or two instrumentals!

My misunderstanding.

[Guest]

The yellow and pink PAMELINE releases does not have the same cat# as the PALMER issue.

I think the release order is as follows:

PAM 200 - pink PAMELINE

PAM 100 - yellow PAMELINE

(the above might be the other way around as well ofcourse, but I doubt it, the pink issue is a legit Nashville Matrix stamped release with fantastic fidelity)

PALMER 5024 mentioned in Billboard 1967-Aug-12.

VAULT 938 mentioned in Billboard 1967-Dec-16.

UK VOCALLION reviewed in UK Record Mirror 1968-March-09.

That's great info but I would just like to add that,

PAM 100. All the Yellow label PAMELINE copies have the PALMER release number scratched in the run out groove P5024.

This means the Palmer release is before the Yellow Pameline.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Guest

[Nick Soule]

Aren't the pink Pameline copies later 60's pressings that were made for the demand in Pittsburgh? I feel like I've read that somewhere. 

[Sebastian]

That's great info but I would just like to add that,

PAM 100. All the Yellow label PAMELINE copies have the PALMER release number scratched in the run out groove P5024.

This means the Palmer release is before the Yellow Pameline.

 

OK, that makes sense.

 

I'll dig out my pink PAMELINE issue and check the matrix details.

[Hooker1951]

I bought  going to an happening  Tommy Neil in1968 from a manchester record shop to play on Silcocks waltzer on which I worked in the nw the punters used to call it  the soul castle because 95 per cent of all music played was soul and tamla. It became a massive record in all the proper underground soul clubs of the day along with a host of top northern soul tunes who people say they discovered years after.a top atmospheric sound a timeless tune.

                                                                                                                                  HAPPY DAYS MICK. l

[Hooker1951]

Just a footnote it was said tommy Neal  was a member of the majestics and possibly the four pros pre Going to an Happening.

Mick L.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Going To A Happening on UK Vocalion was in the first record collection I bought, circa 1971 or thereabouts off Lord Jim in Huddersfield. It was a big Twisted Wheel record by all accounts.......

 

Ian D 

[stokesoulboy]

So, are we saying that Palmer is first ? closely followed by pameline,then vault ??  

[Tlscapital]

So, are we saying that Palmer is first ? closely followed by pameline,then vault ??  

Yes, since last week that is. The only mistery is the pink Pameline (PAM 200). If it's an old contemporary boot or not and then as to where chronologically place it.

[MrsWoodsrules]

So what are we talking, Twisted Wheel?

Edit; sorry just seen Ian D's post above, ignore.

Edited August 20, 2014 by MrsWoodsrules

[Guest]

OK, that makes sense.

 

I'll dig out my pink PAMELINE issue and check the matrix details.

I could be wrong but I am starting think they came out in this order,

PINK PAMELINE first,then picked up by

PALMER records. Then it went to

VAULT, who leased it out to UK Vocalion.

Then sometime later using a Palmer pressing plate comes the

YELLOW PAMELINE, latest of the bunch.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Guest

[Labeat]

Going To A Happening on UK Vocalion was in the first record collection I bought, circa 1971 or thereabouts off Lord Jim in Huddersfield. It was a big Twisted Wheel record by all accounts.......

 

Ian D 

 

Yes, a Wheel play, just about every British collector iv'e ever known had a Vocalion copy.... before Northern was conceived

[Sebastian]

I could be wrong but I am starting think they came out in this order,

PINK PAMELINE first,then picked up by

PALMER records. Then it went to

VAULT, who leased it out to UK Vocalion.

Then sometime later using a Palmer pressing plate comes the

YELLOW PAMELINE, latest of the bunch.

 

That might very well be the case. But who knows?

 

In any case, here are the matrix details for the PINK Pameline issue (no mention of a Palmer #):

 

A-side:

PAM 200 A          Nashville Matrix        95

 

B-side

PM PAM 200 B        Nashville Matrix        95

 

 

Edited August 21, 2014 by Sebastian

[Chris L]

Nahh??

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOMMY-NEIL-GOING-TO-A-HAPPENING-VOCALION/301273030375?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23983%26meid%3D153b77848e3e460888387fdf7b452ae8%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D9421%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D151382428547

 

For real ?      

[Guest soulie75]

Edited August 21, 2014 by soulie75

[Tlscapital]

That might very well be the case. But who knows?

 

In any case, here are the matrix details for the PINK Pameline issue (no mention of a Palmer #):

 

A-side:

PAM 200 A          Nashville Matrix        95

 

B-side

PM PAM 200 B        Nashville Matrix        95

 

 

tommy-neal-pink-pameline-matrix.jpg

With the Nashville stamp it cannot actually be a contemporary bootleg. That is clear. Now that still gives us no clue as to where it can be placed. Only with the fact that it doesn't bare the Palmer matrix like the yellow Pameline (PAM 100) but it is PAM 200 !!! I'd still place this one as last after the Vault like a small run to satisfy some kind of (local) demand or something like that. 

Edited August 21, 2014 by tlscapital

[stokesoulboy]

Lots of copies sold in Pittsburgh , a very popular record there so maybe the pam200 was done to satisfy demand ? It's a minefield this game

[Guest]

It ended up at £205.00 and the buyer paid within a few hours.

[Soulhawk]

 

here are the matrix details for the PINK Pameline issue (no mention of a Palmer #):

 

A-side:

PAM 200 A          Nashville Matrix        95

 

B-side

PM PAM 200 B        Nashville Matrix        95

 

 

tommy-neal-pink-pameline-matrix.jpg

 

the '95' indicates the record was pressed at Archer in Detroit

[Sebastian]

the '95' indicates the record was pressed at Archer in Detroit

 

Thanks! Great info.

[Premium Stuff]

Here you go 

 

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 21/08/2014 at 07:19, Sebastian said:

 

 

That might very well be the case. But who knows?

 

In any case, here are the matrix details for the PINK Pameline issue (no mention of a Palmer #):

 

A-side:

PAM 200 A          Nashville Matrix        95

 

B-side

PM PAM 200 B        Nashville Matrix        95

 

 

Nice thread and informative

So the Vault label (popcorn not paid?)

2 runs of the issue ? one with and one without address 

[Wheelsville1]

48 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Nice thread and informative

So the Vault label (popcorn not paid?)

2 runs of the issue ? one with and one without address 

Thats correct,popcorn was not paid by Vault records.Which means that the u.k. vocalion release is a bootleg due to the fact that vocalion got it off vault and not popcorn himself. 

[Chalky]

4 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Thats correct,popcorn was not paid by Vault records.Which means that the u.k. vocalion release is a bootleg due to the fact that vocalion got it off vault and not popcorn himself. 

Did Popcorn own the rights though?

[Wheelsville1]

12 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Did Popcorn own the rights though?

Yes im sure he did as i was reading an article where popcorn was very upset about what vault had done and felt that they had stolen it from him. I think the ideal person to clarify this would be Gilly. 

[Chalky]

31 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Yes im sure he did as i was reading an article where popcorn was very upset about what vault had done and felt that they had stolen it from him. I think the ideal person to clarify this would be Gilly. 

He did by the looks of it, Ala King is Popcorns publishing company and it is shown on the Vault release as well

[Twoshoes]

55 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Which means that the u.k. vocalion release is a bootleg

Not adding much to the thread but I've seen it listed as such somewhere on Discogs, obviously I mean it's me not adding much to the thread not you.

[Wheelsville1]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

He did by the looks of it, Ala King is Popcorns publishing company and it is shown on the Vault release as well

Yes Chalky,and if you look on the vocalion release it says vault recording with no mention of Ala King. 

[Jona]

So I’m more confused than before this thread started, I now understand the pink issue was pressed on or around 1967 in Detroit. But was it before, or after the yellow copies?

Do Pameline demo’s, or Palmer issues exist?  I’ve never seen either, (unless someone can provide a scan please)

Why didn’t Popcorn sue Vault records for the unlicensed releases (on Vault & Vocalion)

Here’s another possible timeline suggestion, (please don’t shoot me down for trying):  
1967.  Palmer Demo was the 1st, for the promotion of it and sent out to Radio Stations etc. ( I don’t know if any Palmer issues were ever made). Contract terminated with Palmer records and plates recovered by Popcorn, so the record was then released on his own label (Yellow Pameline 100) possibly using the same plates (would explain why the Palmer plate numbers were on the Pameline yellow copies only).
A 2nd run on Pink Pameline 200 (possibly from new plates, maybe why the Palmer numbers aren’t on these copies?). 

Late 1967-1968. Agreement with Popcorn & Vault records to distribute Nationally, but he never received anything from them, so they were stopped. Also Vault continued and sold the licence to Vocalion in the UK and kept the proceeds, making Vault & Vocalion unofficial releases. Please fill in any gaps I may have missed thanks

[Wheelsville1]

35 minutes ago, Jona said:

So I’m more confused than before this thread started, I now understand the pink issue was pressed on or around 1967 in Detroit. But was it before, or after the yellow copies?

Do Pameline demo’s, or Palmer issues exist?  I’ve never seen either, (unless someone can provide a scan please)

Why didn’t Popcorn sue Vault records for the unlicensed releases (on Vault & Vocalion)

Here’s another possible timeline suggestion, (please don’t shoot me down for trying):  
1967.  Palmer Demo was the 1st, for the promotion of it and sent out to Radio Stations etc. ( I don’t know if any Palmer issues were ever made). Contract terminated with Palmer records and plates recovered by Popcorn, so the record was then released on his own label (Yellow Pameline 100) possibly using the same plates (would explain why the Palmer plate numbers were on the Pameline yellow copies only).
A 2nd run on Pink Pameline 200 (possibly from new plates, maybe why the Palmer numbers aren’t on these copies?). 

Late 1967-1968. Agreement with Popcorn & Vault records to distribute Nationally, but he never received anything from them, so they were stopped. Also Vault continued and sold the licence to Vocalion in the UK and kept the proceeds, making Vault & Vocalion unofficial releases. Please fill in any gaps I may have missed thanks

The pink copies are supposedly pitsburgh press,yes it does exist on palmer stock copy but it is very scarce and by far its rarest format.

[Dave Pinch]

8 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Yes Chalky,and if you look on the vocalion release it says vault recording with no mention of Ala King. 

think that may have been uk decca just being lazy..its not a bootleg in the true sense of the word..well no more than say the london darrell banks.. vault records in L.A  tried to go national with it hense the atco distibuted copies..it could have even surface on uk red atlantic over here..that may seem far fetched but it could have realistically happened